Are you in these states?Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, North Dakota,

[Shaolindynasty]

Me and Saeksan would like to develop a strong kungfu community in thses states. Saeksan is the representitive of the US chinese koushu federation for thses states and we are hoping to develop a CMA community that would make a regional tournament for these states possible. You can show your support by introducing yourself, style, school, web site etc. and also let us know if you have any ideas that would be goo for uniting us. I had an idea for a newsletter/magazine for practitioners in these states what do you think?


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[IronFist]

Dude you could have used the state abbreviations :)

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

[IronFist]

Me and Saeksan

"Saeksan and I"

:)

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

[SaekSan]

great ideas SD! keep 'em coming!

:)

[Shaolindynasty]

No problem I just want to do my part.


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Water Dragon]

If we're gonna fight, I'm down. Currently focusing on Shuai Chiao and BJJ. May be adding in some Hsing Yi into the mix. I vote for ACSCA rules. Basically, NHB without the ground game.

[Kung Lek]

Well, not at the same time... but over time I could visit each state...unless of course I managed to somehow travel at warp ten at which point I could be everywhere in the universe at the same time, at least according to Star Trek.

I think the Dalai Lama has a different way that doesn't involve warp drive.

hmmmm.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[Shaolindynasty]

Actually the fighting will be Koushu leitei. The tournament will be sanctioned by them. I am not sure if they have a shuai jiao comp. You'd have to ask saeksan. I believe the tournament would be the same as the tournament in Maryland except closer.


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[SaekSan]

yup, SD is right we would be looking at Kuoshu Lei Tai rules (with an actual Lei Tai). I'm not familiat with the ACSCA rules but if it's full contact you want it's full contact that we're planning on.

At first I doubt we can meet the expectations of the Maryland tournament, but the idea would be to shoot to have the same organization and planning that the Nationals/Internationals have.

:)

[Water Dragon]

Cool. Get it going, give me the info. I;ll contact the Chen-Heads. They like to fight.

[SaekSan]

where would you like me to send the info?

[SaekSan]

from the USCKF website:

"Lei Tai (full contact fighting) Rules

Contestants will fight on a 24 square foot, two and one half foot high Lei Tai.

Competitors must use headgear, gloves, mouthpiece, and groin cup. Female competitors must also wear a chest protector.

Elimination rounds will be 1 1/2 minutes each. The final fight in each division will have 2 minute rounds. The victor must win two out of three rounds.

Scoring:
Contestant executes clear punch or kick - 1 point.

Contestant executes clear punch or kick that knocks opponent down - 2 points.

Without falling, contestant successfully throws opponent to the ground - 2 points.

Contestant forces or throws opponent off Lei Tai - 3 points.

Through own error, contestant loses balance - 1 point deduction

Contestant executes clear elbow/knee technique without holding - 1 point

Penalties:
Contact to the eyes, throat, back of the head, or groin is illegal. For female competitors, contact to the chest is also illegal.

Techniques using the head are illegal.

Fouls:
First violation: 1 point deduction

Second violation: 3 point deduction

Third violation: disqualification

Technical Fouls:
First violation: warning

Second violation: 1 point deduction

Third violation: disqualification

Competitors who maliciously hurt their opponents will be held liable for any damages or injuries. The executive referee has full authority to stop the fight at any time for safety or any other reason."

What do you guys think?

[Shaolindynasty]

Beautiful rules. I don't think anybody could complain, full contact punches, kicks, throws, elbows and knees. It brings tears to my eyes. Does the USCKF have weapons sparring? I'd really love that.


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[SaekSan]

There are two types of competition...and here are the rules:

"Time Limited Competition

In the time allotted, either 1 or 2 minutes (to be determined by the Tournament Director) the object is to obtain the highest score.

Strikes to the head and body (both front and back) and/or disarming a weapon, score 3 points.

Strikes to the arms and/or legs score 2 points.

Score Limited Competition

The match will be awarded to the competitor reaching full score first.

Full score point total will be determined by the Tournament Director.

THE CENTER REFEREE POSSESSES FULL AUTHORITY."

[Wongsifu]

Competitors who maliciously hurt their opponents will be held liable for any damages or injuries

youre joking rite ????

This is because THC is not an alkaloid. It does not contain a nitrogen atom, therefore it is a terpenophenolic compound

[Shaolindynasty]

Let's not start argueing about the rules. Let's keep his on topic, this post is to serve a purpose

p.s. at the mention of weapons sparring I am now drooling with anticipation

www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Polaris]

Why not just form a "community" of people who train for and compete in MMA as I have previously suggested? I don't see why everyone seems to be so opposed to doing that.

[SantaClaus]

The only thing that will take off there is MMA. Its full of wrestler/boxers. MMA is whats going on now and its the only thing that will make money.

I would love to do Kuo Shu. NEver have, seems like fun, joint locking and all.

[Wongsifu]

polaris i agree with you actually theres so many sanda like competitions out there like this one, but i dont see many kf guys actually in mma and it makes us look so thick like we play with wooden dollies all day, but.....

on another note i didnt want to argue i was just wondering is it normal practise for this ----> Competitors who maliciously hurt their opponents will be held liable for any damages or injuries

in boxing mma etc ???? thats a scary thought does that mean if you kick the guy in the temple and he dies becasue of god knows what you are liable for manslaughter ???

This is because THC is not an alkaloid. It does not contain a nitrogen atom, therefore it is a terpenophenolic compound

[Shaolindynasty]

Well what we want is a good CMA community like they have on the west coast. We are not "getting together to train" but are operating seperate but freindly schools which will get together for events and competitions. Saeksan is the regional representive(not sure if the title is exactly right) for the USCKF so the tournaments will be sanctioned by them, besides the fact that the USCKF rules and it's members don't have splits over which is the real org like USAWKF. We are both hoping to strengthen the bond of CMA. MMA isn't a bad sport but that's not really what we do. We will use the banner of the USCKF to bring us together


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Shaolindynasty]

"The only thing that will take off there is MMA. Its full of wrestler/boxers. MMA is whats going on now and its the only thing that will make money."

Actually since I got interested in this I started looking and there is alot of CMA in this area. The money is NOT why we are doing this.


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[SaekSan]

Actually that rule is to prevent from having people who are bent on hurting others and thinking that they can get away with it from entering the competition. Keeps the "brutality" to a civilized level. The idea is to promote a form of fighting that is "safe" not a "steel cage death match" where you get people who flaunt their egos at the tournament.

The motto for the tournament would be "Show skill not ego"

Much respect.

:)

[SaekSan]

SD has got the right idea. I have much respect for MMA, but it would be a way to work with the CMA community in the area. I'm really not interested im "making money" on this but actually to create a venue for CMA right here in this region. A place we can all grow and share our knowledge.

SD, the title is actually USCKF North Region Director. :)

[SantaClaus]

so shaolindynasty. Do you do much fighting at your school?

Can I be in your association? I don't have a famous sifu, but I am learning from a real live chinamen, he's my neighbor. I call my style Shaolin Tiger, we have lots of diverse influences such as TV kung fu specials and pamphlets that he buy in chinatown. He says that I can't alone decifer the true meanings of the symbols. But with his help, my abilities are limitless.

[Shaolindynasty]

Nutfunny, Although I know you were trying to be funny I will answer your questions seriously.

Yes we do alot of sparring at our school. We feel that if the movement doesn't serve a purpose for you then there is no point in training it. We devide our 1 hour classes like this, 1st half hour is warmup and conditioning, the next 15 min is sparring or takedown drills, and the last 15min is forms. A 2hour class(usually classes scheduled for 1 hour go 2 hours) begins with 1 half hour warmup and conditioning, 1 half hour sparring and/or drills, 15 min forms, 15 min weapons, 1/2 hour of Qigong. We take our training seriously.

To answer your second question, it is an association and I am not in charge. If any organization is involved it will be the USCKF, and they will be involved with tournaments, events etc. If you are looking to join an association, they are a good one to join and you would have to follow their guidlines to join.

So do we have an serious interest in a newsletter between these states or not?


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Shaolindynasty]

"To answer your second question, it is an association and I am not in charge."

Ooops! meant to say it isn't an association. no fees unless you want to join the USCKF then you pay them not me. So I am talking about a free thing here


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Water Dragon]

e-mail me with the info. I will get it to the proper people. lzolper@hotmail.com

[MonkeySlap Too]

What kind of gloves? If it's nerf mit boxing gloves, I'm not that interested, as that changes the 'shape' of the techniques.

But if it's fighters you want, tell me what, when, where - I know plenty of folks back there.

"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

[Water Dragon]

Yes, I am assuming we are using NHB type gloves. With all the other padding, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Xebsball]

Kuoshu gloves (at leat here) are ones that the fingers stay outside for better grabbing, but they are bigger than NHB gloves. But for sure are better than boxing gloves.

----------------------------
Friday evening / The blood still on my hands
To think that she would leave me now / For that ungrateful man

Sole survivor / No witness to the crime
I must act fast to cover up / I think that there's still time

He'd seem hopeless and lost with this note / They'll buy into the words that I wrote

"This feeling inside me
Finally found my love, I've finally broke free
No longer torn in two
I'd take my own life before losing you"

[Water Dragon]

Well, I'm voting for the NHB wraps. It keeps it more real.

[SaekSan]

The official gloves are the open finger type. Little padding, just enough to prevent injuries to the hands from hitting the helmet.

Tiger Claw and Pro Force make them. The NHB type gloves have not yet been approved, but they are similar... who knows? Maybe one day those will become the official ones. :)

[Water Dragon]

Cool, I have a pair of those, I can deal with that. Please tell me we're not doing face cages. They promote sloppy defense. Please tell me we're using boxing head gear. Otherwise, I'm sure I can find some nasty ways to throw someone by that face cage :D

[SaekSan]

That's exactly the type, although the gloves made by Jugui are far superior than the ones we can get here (beleive it or not!).

I just put in an order for 20 gloves, my students that competed at the Kuoshu Pan American picked-up pairs for themselves and loved it, so the rest of the team is getting outfitted with them.

:D

[SaekSan]

Sorry WD, but the official helmet is with a cage, and it's against the rules to grab the equipment...

I hear you on the issue of "sloppy defense" though, but I work my guys with the thought that the cage is not there.

:)

[Water Dragon]

If we're creating something out of nothing (as this doesn't exist in the midwest), we should be able to adapt the rules any way we wish. Get the core set up and we'll vote on it.

[SaekSan]

Well, we will create something here, but it will be a USCKF Regional event.

As SD stated earlier I'm the USCKF North Region Director and the idea is to promote a high quality event right here in this region, something similar to the annual one in Baltimore.

For more info on the USCKF go to:

http://www.usckf.org/usckf/index.shtml

check it out.

:)

[Water Dragon]

Allright, I'll bend on that I guess since you have the power to make this happen. I still don't like it though. You just took away about half my punches.

Who the hell made that one up any way? I want to fight, but I'm really a pu$, if we can get face cages, maybe it wont be so bad.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Actually, I like the face cages. WD - I TOTALLY agree with your point, but by using the cage, you cut down on the amount of bleeding in competition - and that reduces concerns about blood borne pathogens.

Something we should ALL consider.

"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

[Water Dragon]

Out of respect for the lineage, I'll shut up now.

Now then, let's fight :D

[SaekSan]

Actually the Kuoshu tournaments used to have only 3 pieces of protective gear... groin cup, mouthpiece and gardening gloves (those canvas ones you get at hardware stores). The last time it was used was in the 1986 World Championships in Taipei, Taiwan.

With the founding of the International Chinese Kuoshu Federation (ICKF), there was a push to make Kuoshu style fighting more popular around the world (Kuoshu tournaments were seen as a rather violent display, much alike how NHB tournaments are being perceived today), so the idea was to use helmets to reduce the risk of injury or death, with that decision came the problem of injuring hands on the cage so came the gloves.

The main concern is to develop full contact CMA fighting in a safe environment with the least amount of padding. That's why the Kuoshu Lei Tai referee program is so strict and difficult to be certified, they want to make sure that the referee understands how to control the bout without them turning into brawls.

:)

[MonkeySlap Too]

WD- okay, I'll meet at the bike rack at 3. If I'm not there - start without me. ;).

-- I'm a big fan of the Kuoshu rules. They're much better than the San Shou rules in my humble opinion, but to each thier own.

They are very similar to ACSCA rules - although I've noticed a greater tendancy towards padding in the ACSCA. When I fought it was kuosho gloves, mouthpiece and boxing head gear. Ah, the good old days...

If you can get this together, I can probably deliver several schools including my own groups back in the midwest. It could be really fun.

"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

[Shaolindynasty]

If you guys have any questions reguarding the wuss factor of Lei Tei do a search on it I think you will be surprised. I think Koushu fighting is close to NHB but without the ground stuff, Punches , kicks, elbows, knees and throws are allowed. I like the idea of keeping with the USCKF since they are already well established, this makes it much more likely to happen then me just saying "hey guys let's have a tournament" I'd like to leave that part to the professionals. Now the newsletter will be somthing extra and it would be cool if you could all contribute things like articles, known events or maybe just a bio on your school. The newsletter would just help us all to get to know each other.


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[MonkeySlap Too]

You may want to consider turning it into a national 'lei tai' newsletter - bigger audience.

It could also be 'published' initilly as a PDF to help you get it off the ground.

If you are serious, and get it off the ground I'll contribute.

"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

[SaekSan]

I really think this could benefit all of us.

We're working on the logistics right now and how many Shifu and/or qualified judges we can find in this area. I know a few and have the support of some of the key Kuoshu certified Lei Tai referees, but it would be great to meet more Shifu and qualified individuals to brainstorm with them about divisions and other aspects of the competition.

Much respect and once again thank you.

:)

[Water Dragon]

SD, I' hoping you'll be at the seminar. I think Fajing is coming as well (he does Wing Chun) I'll be there, and the Golden Mountain boys are top notch. I know a solid tournament promoter in the area. Wai Lun Choi has full contact experience and a helluva a school (somebody get Drake) Dr. Brian Wu is in Chicago as well. That should be enough to get it going in Chicago.

Once I gat the info, I'll contact my people's in Columbus, OH. Any chance of getting Gin Foon Mark involved? I'd love to see their boyz in action.

How's that for a start?

[SaekSan]

On GM Wai Lun Choi, he should be there, on my way back from this years Nationals we were on the same flight and seemed enthusiastic with the idea, he is also one of the Vice-Presidents of the USCKF (along with Joe Dunphy).

Thank you very much WD, much respect.

:)

[Shaolindynasty]

Saeksan I don't know how busy you are but I would like to take up the project of putting the newsletter together for you. I could take the info and put the newsletter together and send it to you for approval, then we can distribute it. I just like to do stuff like this and I have some extra time on my hands but as the North region director, all the final calls will be yours. I can also start contacting all the Illinois schools I can find and ask if thhey are interested. Just give me the go ahead.


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[SaekSan]

How did you guess I was so busy? LOL

Great iniciative!

You can e-mail me the stuff and we can discuss the details.

I'm also in the process of creating the USCKF North Region website. Give me a little time and it'll be up.

:)

[Shaolindynasty]

Great just let me know the address when it's done so I can link it up to my site. I start contacting schools this week. Now as far as format of the newsletter what would that include? I was thinking we may have some articles on general Kungfu subjects, a school directory, events page, USCKF news, and maybe put a school bio for each issue any other ideas? Oh I I thnik we should make it quarterly, I think I can have the first one ready and some people to send it to for spring


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[SaekSan]

Well, I think the premiere issue should definately be an introduction of all people on the newsletter, we could introduce the member schools and individuals, create a directory, have a little history of Kuoshu and info on the USCKF and it's events, a little history of CMA in our region and resources for the members like local supply stores and events.

MST, the idea of a National newsletter is great, but the USCKF already has a quarterly publication for that purpose. I would be interested in more of a regional thing that would showcase what wonderful styles and teachers we have right here in our "backyard".

:)

[Shaolindynasty]

Great. I'll get right on that chief(now I feel like clark kent hehe). Can you email me a list of school and individual members with contacts? We are planning to include contributions made by non USCKF members also, right? But I think the directory should only include member schools


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[SaekSan]

Yeah, that's a good way to go about it. Eventually we probably would only have space for USCKF members to contribute. But we have to start somewhere.

I'll work on a list of affiliated schools in our region and emeil it to you.

[kungfuyou]

Is there any USCKF

[kungfuyou]

Dohhh...sorry hit the "Post Now" to quick!!

Is there any USCKF events that happen on the west coast? Specifically Northern Cali? How can I found out when and where?

Thanks.

[SaekSan]

Actually there was a USCKF event held in San Francisco, it was a co-hosted event by GM Richard Lee (Senior Vice-President of the USCKF) and GM Lily Lau (Advisor for the USCKF). It was held Aug 3rd, 4th and 5th at the Hyatt Regency Hotel (by the airport).

Here's the page with info and the placings:

http://www.kungfutourn.org/

[Royal Dragon]

You know, I think this is a GREAT Idea!! I think it would be an awesome way fro us to promote ourselves. I myself could probually contribute articals on stuff, as I am a reasearch hound. I promis to use my spell checker even :rolleyes:

What does it cost to be a member? Does the Kuo Sho federation require you to learn thier forms like Chin Woo?


How about seminars? I know a guy that just set up a HUGH phacility, and needs help financing it's existence. They're a gymnastics center, but they are putting a Martial arts department in after the holidays (I'm talking to them tomoroww about that =). I would like to help them out as much as I can, especially since the more I can do for them, the more they will do for me!!

Comments anyone?

Royal Dragon

Those that are sucessful are also the biggest failures. the difference between them and the rest of the failures is this, they keep getting up over and over again, until they succeed. "The more they try, the more they fail, BUT, the more they try & fail, the more opertunity they have to succeed, and succeed they do!!"



Check out the Royal Dragon Web site & Message Board.

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com or http://www.dreamwater.net/biz/royaldragon/

[NorthernMantis]

How many points for an eye poke?

http://www.channel1.com/users/wahlum/wahlum.gif

"Always be ready"

"right, that's it!you've insulted me, and you've insulted the shaolin temple!"-Fish of Furry

[Shaolindynasty]

RD I pitched this idea to you a few weeks ago and you just shruged it off now you want in huh? ;) The Koushu federation doesn't require that you learn any addittional forms other than what your system has. My sifu used to be a member but he didn't keep it up. I am planning on registering as a school as soon as I can. The link to their website was posted on this thread earlier so check out their site. Is that place you are talking about your daughters gym? Did they already express interest in a MA program or are you going to pitch it to them?


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[SaekSan]

RD the cost for an individual 1 year membership is $25.00 and a 2 year school membership is $100.00.

To compete in Kuoshu Lei Tai you must have a membership in the Federation.

If you would like I can send you some info.

SD, I'm mailing the stuff to you today, should be there soon.

:)

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, I'm prone to doing that, untill I have time by myself to think about stuff.

I'm VERY busy during the winter, so anything I contribute will have to be during summer months.

Yes, it's at her gym, infact I'm leaving to meet with them in an hour!! :D !!!

Send Info to Royal Dragon, PO Box 262 Addison Il. 60101

Thanx

Gian

Those that are sucessful are also the biggest failures. the difference between them and the rest of the failures is this, they keep getting up over and over again, until they succeed. "The more they try, the more they fail, BUT, the more they try & fail, the more opertunity they have to succeed, and succeed they do!!"



Check out the Royal Dragon Web site & Message Board.

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com or http://www.dreamwater.net/biz/royaldragon/

[les paul]

Yea
I'm there.

I hope there will be some ground fighting, but if not it's cool
Spanky