Yjkym

[Hendrik]

The facts on yjkym Almost 2000 viewers less then 24 hours

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk-2Ycgp-go&feature=youtube_gdata



Perhaps it is the Time for wcners to examine the clamping knees yjkym and the Ipman era invention of the so called "structure " concept .

[JPinAZ]

This is just very basic level stance understanding (or should be), but nothing mind blowing here.

BTW - Structure isn't a Yip Man era invention.

[KPM]

The facts on yjkym Almost 2000 viewers less then 24 hours

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk-2Ycgp-go&feature=youtube_gdata

Yes. This was good! I liked part 1 as well. It makes sense what he says about the Fatshan farmers misunderstanding the "Yeung" in YGKYM as meaning "sheep" rather than "Yang."


Perhaps it is the Time for wcners to examine the clamping knees yjkym and the Ipman era invention of the so called "structure " concept .

I never liked the idea of clamping the knees as if holding something and haven't done that for many years. But I'm not sure what you mean by "the Ipman era invention of the so called "structure" concept." :confused:

[Hendrik]

IMHO, holding Structure or geometric shape is a concept started in Hong Kong or the Ipman era.

[kung fu fighter]

6:36 into this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttV3teO0YnE

[LFJ]

It makes sense what he says about the Fatshan farmers misunderstanding the "Yeung" in YGKYM as meaning "sheep" rather than "Yang."

It makes sense to a Westerner who doesn't speak Chinese fluently perhaps. I've done quite a bit of martial arts study in the mountain villages in different areas of China, certainly not where the best education is received. But if there is ever any ambiguity due to tones one doesn't need to be shown the character, and be able to read it, to know which word is meant. It is a common thing to happen in the Chinese languages due to many hom0phones, but there is a very easy way around it simply by saying "yinyang de yang", that is "the yang from yinyang". I don't believe there is a single Chinese person unfamiliar with this word, especially practitioners of TCMA. Plus, where there is such possible ambiguity, a teacher would not just say a name of a stance and not explain what it means. So this explanation of confusing things due to ambiguity caused by tones and being unable to read, I'd say, is really not an explanation that makes sense to anyone fluent in the language with any amount of speaking experience. Words are clarified like this all the time in daily speech.

Besides that, "clamping" yang does NOT mean reinforcing or opening the yang channel. Another meaning of the clamping character is to restrain or restrict. So it would mean you're restricting your yang energy in this stance. This guy just doesn't understand Chinese!

All hint of such theories present in mainland styles, like qigong, yinyang, bagua, etc. disappeared in Yip Man's HK teaching anyway because he was not superstitious.

[tc101]

Plus, where there is such possible ambiguity, a teacher would not just say a name of a stance and not explain what it means.

The word is not the thing. If we called the different horses and steps by numbers like horse 1 step 4 it would be more obvious that these are simply ways for us to reference these things. It does not matter whether it is sheep or goat or something else because they are all somewhat descriptive none fully descriptive and are they just to give us a way to reference WHAT WE ARE DOING.

[LFJ]

The word is not the thing. If we called the different horses and steps by numbers like horse 1 step 4 it would be more obvious that these are simply ways for us to reference these things. It does not matter whether it is sheep or goat or something else because they are all somewhat descriptive none fully descriptive and are they just to give us a way to reference WHAT WE ARE DOING.

Right, but the point being made in this video is to say some people pinch their stance in so tightly because they've misunderstood the name of the stance which makes them literally squeeze their knees together imagining they are clamping a goat between their legs. While I agree this is too much of an exaggeration of how the stance should be done, the explanation is as weak as the whole yang energy thing he's talking about. I don't think anyone misunderstood the name. Some just take it too literally.

[tc101]

Right, but the point being made in this video is to say some people pinch their stance in so tightly because they've misunderstood the name of the stance which makes them literally squeeze their knees together imagining they are clamping a goat between their legs. While I agree this is too much of an exaggeration of how the stance should be done, the explanation is as weak as the whole yang energy thing he's talking about. I don't think anyone misunderstood the name. Some just take it too literally.

No one understands a martial art through language. Understanding comes from performance. I have met and trained with some YKS people who really clinch their knees to a fist distance and were awesome. That is how sum Nung taught it and he is arguably one of the best fighters wing chun has produced.

[BPWT..]

Have to agree with LFJ on this one. I like what Sergio is doing in exploring various lineages of the art, but I don't see how a misunderstanding of language like this - regarding YJKYM - could have come about.

That said, I also agree with tc101 regarding the stance itself - YKS lineage guys are doing something very different to what Sergio is showing, and I don't think this was due to a misunderstanding. YKS was very well respected, it seems, and was said to have great skills.

[Hendrik]

Besides that, "clamping" yang does NOT mean reinforcing or opening the yang channel. Another meaning of the clamping character is to restrain or restrict. So it would mean you're restricting your yang energy in this stance. This guy just doesn't understand Chinese!

All hint of such theories present in mainland styles, like qigong, yinyang, bagua, etc. disappeared in Yip Man's HK teaching anyway because he was not superstitious.


IMHO,




1.

Clamping yang is related to the yang medirians as Sifu Sergio presented.

Clamping yang simply means the body weight is place in the yang medirian side of the both legs.


Sifu Sergio has been exposed to this proper ancient teaching where not many even in Asia know. It is about the technology of Qi, Jin or force flow handling , and momentum within the six core elements handling of siu nim tau ( body, mind, breathing, Qi, force flow or Jin, and momentum). Nothing mysterious at all.

In fact , that is the ancient teaching or technology which enable one to links, the body or six joints seven bows breathing, Qi, Jin or force flow. It is not a superstitious but technology. Keep watching sifu Sergio's coming videos. You will see what is the facts.


Sifu Sergio already has exposed to the ability to activate the seven bows of the Wck Jin as he shows in this video.

He knows what is clamping yang and be able to demonstrate what he present in the yjkym part 2 video about the six joints , recieving and sending force flow .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtvFTcPbepQ&feature=youtube_gdata




2. State and present the facts one know, Please do not using the name such as Ipman as a reason of truth. I would like to respect Gm Ipman as all Wck Gm. Please do not put any Gm in a bad spot.


3. Accuse some one doesn't know Chinese is also not a reason for the facts . That could be just shows ones superiority complex. Wck is a world wide art now. There are westerners practice Wck for more then thirty years and constantly visited china and Asia, so, do not assume they don't know Chinese. They might know more then you or me. We need to threat everyone equal.

4. Please present with facts. Wck is a science and technology. Not a religion or believe.
none of the Wck lineage or Gm name can replace the facts and details of science and technology. Wck is not a cult practice .

[LFJ]

Whatever, Hendrik. I don't know what you mean by "reason of truth" or "reason for the facts". But the fact is simply that the characters don't mean what you want them to mean. You can't somehow explain "clamping/restricting yang" into meaning "opening the yang channel". It's the complete opposite in meaning. You should be honest about that, rather than try to see what you want to see.

Also, if you want to call something scientific and not superstitious you have to first demonstrate it as real. So far, all this stuff still lies in the realm of superstition. And I didn't mention Yip Man to prove any point on what is real or make-believe, but to simply say he didn't accept and teach this energy theory stuff found in the mainland styles.

[LFJ]

There are westerners practice Wck for more then thirty years and constantly visited china and Asia, so, do not assume they don't know Chinese. They might know more then you or me. We need to threat everyone equal.

No, we do not. I'm not assuming. Sergio very clearly doesn't know Chinese and is plain wrong. You're defending him because you want to believe what you want to believe. His experience in martial arts doesn't make what he's saying true.

[Hendrik]

Whatever, Hendrik. I don't know what you mean by "reason of truth" or "reason for the facts". But the fact is simply that the characters don't mean what you want them to mean. You can't somehow explain "clamping/restricting yang" into meaning "opening the yang channel". It's the complete opposite in meaning. You should be honest about that, rather than try to see what you want to see.

Also, if you want to call something scientific and not superstitious you have to first demonstrate it as real. So far, all this stuff still lies in the realm of superstition.

And I didn't mention Yip Man to prove any point on what is real or make-believe, but to simply say he didn't accept and teach this energy theory stuff found in the mainland styles.






1. As I present above,

Clamping yang is related to the yang medirians as Sifu Sergio presented.

Clamping yang simply means the body weight is place in the yang medirian side of the both legs.
By doing that one activate the yang medirians side.



This placing weight in th legs three yang medirian side is later refer as clamping yang. It is not a clamping as most think. But a natural balancing alignment due to the weight placing in the yang side naturally.

If one place the weight in the yin side one will end up to cause imbalance and thus needs extral muscle tension to stable it. That is what happen with the clamping knees type of yjkym. It is not only self dissipation, it also block the force flow to travel up and down to the ground. Via placing the weight in the leg yang side, the stance is naturally balance and the force flow can travel up and down to the ground. Any modern sport science can prove this. It is about the natural of the human body.




You have no idea of what it is but trying to reason out with words.
Similar to how one trying to reason what is differential equation withou having taken the class yet. That will cause issue.




2. What if Ipman is clueless on the topic? I am not happy to prove him that because I know none is perfect. And it is not fair to put him on padelstone.

[LFJ]

1. As I present above,

Saying it again doesn't make it true or real.


2. What if Ipman is clueless on the topic?

If he were clueless of the demonstrable scientific matters regarding his martial art that might have been problematic to his application. Being clueless of a superstitious belief is of no consequence.

[Hendrik]

Saying it again doesn't make it true or real.



If he were clueless of the demonstrable scientific matters regarding his martial art that might have been problematic to his application. Being clueless of a superstitious belief is of no consequence.



You can believe what you like.

I rest my case since I have present the facts.
Those who study the biomechanics and modern sport science can research what present. And in fact I encourage that.

[LFJ]

Any modern sport science can prove this. It is about the natural of the human body.

If all you're talking about is biomechanics, movement of force through the body via structure and weight distribution, then just say that. What is with all the yin/yang and qi flow talk? No modern sport science has proven your superstitious beliefs. You don't just get to call it science.

[Grumblegeezer]

If all you're talking about is biomechanics, movement of force through the body via structure and weight distribution, then just say that. What is with all the yin/yang and qi flow talk? No modern sport science has proven your superstitious beliefs. You don't just get to call it science.

I think this whole chi thing is a bit of a red-herring. And, although I have enjoyed some of Sergio's videos, I have to say that he seems to be going off onto on a mystical or new "age-y" tangent of late. I'm not sure why.

I prefer to understand WC/VT/WT in practical terms, much as LFJ does above. We do what we do primarily because it works, not because of some supposed effect on our chi. So when I consider a "knock kneed stance" vs. "square stance" in YGKYM, I look at functionality. All that chi circulation won't be of much good if your opponent decks you. Unless we are talking about convalescence after receiving a major butt whipping.

Now as far as YGKYM being thought of as "goat riding stance" or as "Yin (yeung) stance", I doubt that this difference is the result of illiterate peasants practicing WC and confusing the terms. There is a well established history going back as far as Leung Jan and he was not an illiterate farmer. Nor was Leung Bic, nor Yip Man.

I venture that the difference in stances, then as now, had to do with different beliefs as to which was more practical.

[Hendrik]

If all you're talking about is biomechanics, movement of force through the body via structure and weight distribution, then just say that. What is with all the yin/yang and qi flow talk? No modern sport science has proven your superstitious beliefs. You don't just get to call it science.



Yin and yang, Qi and medirians is Chinese ancient science and technology model .

One can use modern science and biomechanics or sport science to verify result.

That simple.

[Hendrik]

I think this whole chi thing is a bit of a red-herring. And, although I have enjoyed some of Sergio's videos, I have to say that he seems to be going off onto on a mystical or new "age-y" tangent of late. I'm not sure why.

I prefer to understand WC/VT/WT in practical terms, much as LFJ does above. We do what we do primarily because it works, not because of some supposed effect on our chi. So when I consider a "knock kneed stance" vs. "square stance" in YGKYM, I look at functionality. All that chi circulation won't be of much good if your opponent decks you. Unless we are talking about convalescence after receiving a major butt whipping.

Now as far as YGKYM being thought of as "goat riding stance" or as "Yin (yeung) stance", I doubt that this difference is the result of illiterate peasants practicing WC and confusing the terms. There is a well established history going back as far as Leung Jan and he was not an illiterate farmer. Nor was Leung Bic, nor Yip Man.

I venture that the difference in stances, then as now, had to do with different beliefs as to which was more practical.



1. Qi is a science of china, Chinese medicine based on it, accupuncture based on it. There is nothing mysterious and all scientific. The issue is does now know what it is before critics?

2. The clamping yang needs to address because that is the basic and foundation of Wck Jin development. It not a stance but lead into the handling of joints, force flow path, and Qi in the body to make physical result.
This part of science is not present in the general Wck today.


One can always keep the old black and white tv if they like and resist the heck out of color tv and high resolution retina display. But that doesn't mean the whole world going to stay black and white tv as one.

[JPinAZ]

IMHO, holding Structure or geometric shape is a concept started in Hong Kong or the Ipman era.

Good thing you said IMHO, since we all know you can't prove this as fact.


Whatever, Hendrik. I don't know what you mean by "reason of truth" or "reason for the facts". But the fact is simply that the characters don't mean what you want them to mean. You can't somehow explain "clamping/restricting yang" into meaning "opening the yang channel". It's the complete opposite in meaning. You should be honest about that, rather than try to see what you want to see.

Also, if you want to call something scientific and not superstitious you have to first demonstrate it as real. So far, all this stuff still lies in the realm of superstition. And I didn't mention Yip Man to prove any point on what is real or make-believe, but to simply say he didn't accept and teach this energy theory stuff found in the mainland styles.

LFJ is spot on here. This is just another round of Henrdik trying to figure things out by reading mysterious old texts nobody has ever seen or can verify, watching clips, etc and then passing everything off as 'facts'.

Grumblegeezer, I'm seeing the same thing from sergio as you are. IMO, I think he's just trying to reinvent the wheel by digging around for things that make himself appear unique. Unfortunately, it doesn't make him look very good lately.

He has a history of coming to conclusions only to realize he was either mistaken, or lead astray like a lost puppy.
Example: he had his time where he was running around with Chi Sim GM for a year or so riding the "Wing Chun is Weng Chun, Weng Chun is Wing Chun" bandwagon - until he found out he was fooling himself (or being fooled).
Then he get tied up with the Black Flag nonsense and started mixing in their 18 lohan stuff thinking it was wing chun. Then realized he was fooled yet again and it had nothing to do with wing chun at all. (yet he still teaches that stuff in his WC... :rolleyes:)
I've also seen sergio's article in Wing Chun Illustrated last year where he attempts to describe heaven/human/earth & time/space/energy concepts, which are clearly HFY concepts as only HFY teaches these methods in WC or speaks of them. I read the article and he clearly is just taking guesses - yet he still wears shirts with these HFY concepts on them. He also listed no sources and gives no real examples of anything, even when questioned on social media.
And now he's yang-clamped onto this new stuff Henrik is fumbling around with that he's calling 'facts' (without any verifiable evidence). And it won't be long until Sergio realizes it for what it is. But, I do give him credit for one thing - he's a go-getter. If even a misguided & often-times a foolishly gullible one. :o

And I agree with you on this subject of YJKYM, this isn't some simple illiteracy issue. Most of the kung fu masters either had an education, were pretty smart or both. They weren't poor farmers that couldn't read. It typically took money to learn good kung fu. Sure, some poor people did learn out of necessity, but only just enough to defend themselves. Or they got lucky and had some master show them kindness. But they typically couldn't learn a complete system because that took money to support the sifu, which they didnt' have. Only the wealthier, better-off & educated people were the ones with the money and connection to learn kung fu or wing chun. A good example is Ip Man!

[GlennR]

You can believe what you like.

I rest my case since I have present the facts.
Those who study the biomechanics and modern sport science can research what present. And in fact I encourage that.

Here you go Hendrik............. an answer to your prayers

http://www.downvids.net/wing-chun-stance-with-sigung-chu-shong-tin-179432.htmla

None of this silly chi nonsense and cleary explained.

You should try the Chu Shong Tin transformation!!!

[GlennR]

No one understands a martial art through language. Understanding comes from performance. I have met and trained with some YKS people who really clinch their knees to a fist distance and were awesome. That is how sum Nung taught it and he is arguably one of the best fighters wing chun has produced.

Exactly TC101

Ive learnt both the more upright stance, TST, as opposed to a mainland knee clamping style , very YKS-like.

There is pros and cons to both stances

[Grumblegeezer]

Exactly TC101

Ive learnt both the more upright stance, TST, as opposed to a mainland knee clamping style , very YKS-like.

There is pros and cons to both stances

"There are pros and cons..." Absolutely. Everything is a trade-off. You try it, you test it, and analyze it from a cost (or risk) versus benefit perspective. Then you go with what gives you the greatest benefit and least risk based on your personal skills and needs.

At least that's how it should work when you get away from all the cult-like thinking that's out there.

[KPM]

And I agree with you on this subject of YJKYM, this isn't some simple illiteracy issue. Most of the kung fu masters either had an education, were pretty smart or both. They weren't poor farmers that couldn't read

Except for maybe Wong Wah Sam and the young lads that Leung Jan taught when he retired to Ku Lo village. Hard to make generalizations about an era and location so far removed from us. But on reflection and reconsideration, I agree that Sergio's theory about the naming seems a bit far-fetched.

[LFJ]

..........
8123

[BPWT..]

LOL @ LFJ :D

Quite literally, I just spilled my coffee

[tc101]

LOL @ LFJ :D

Quite literally, I just spilled my coffee

Yes me too. VERY well done.

[JPinAZ]

Except for maybe Wong Wah Sam and the young lads that Leung Jan taught when he retired to Ku Lo village. Hard to make generalizations about an era and location so far removed from us. But on reflection and reconsideration, I agree that Sergio's theory about the naming seems a bit far-fetched.

Well sure, there are always different cases. But then, there's also the thoughts that he taught them a very condensed version of his wing chun at that time, so maybe my thoughts still stand? :)

[KPM]

Well sure, there are always different cases. But then, there's also the thoughts that he taught them a very condensed version of his wing chun at that time, so maybe my thoughts still stand? :)

You mean this part?
but only just enough to defend themselves. Or they got lucky and had some master show them kindness. But they typically couldn't learn a complete system because that took money to support the sifu, which they didnt' have

Maybe so. But retirement does imply not needing support. But then again even the Ku Lo history says this was not long prior to Leung Jan's death. So yeah. Maybe your thoughts still stand. ;-)