Done to the death but......mastery in nutshell.

[Fu-Pow]

There is no such thing as a "master."

It is a matter of perception.

Your students may refer to you as a "master" of the martial arts. But if you refer to yourself as such then you are basically saying there is no room for improvement. You view yourself as a finished product.

It implies there is an end when there really is none. It is the process that is most important.

When you reach a high level of skill you may become a "Sifu" or "Teacher." You may have gained "mastery" over the things that your teacher had to teach and you may be ready to pass those things along.

But there is always room to grow and learn and "mastery" is something to strive for yet never be achieved.

If "mastery" of oneself is the goal. Then likewise there is no end, there is always room for improvement.

Just my two cents.

Fu-Pow

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[Kung Lek]

yes, "master" is what other people call you.

This does not mean you cannot master a particular or even a whole slew of particulars.

a finished product is a finished product. it is what it is and if you have done it then you have mastered it...in your own right.

learning, always learning is key to "self mastery" but a system of anything is already by definition in the confines of "a system" and therefor can be mastered.

sometimes quickly if the system is small and you are able to "empty your cup" and learn it and sometimes longer if the system is larger.

so there are different levels of understanding to anything.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[Cody]

Especially where ego applies, or real belief (whether or not stated) in the feeling that one has indeed Arrived. Then, the term "Master" has no real significance. However, I don't think that mastery implies necessarily the arrival/endpoint, but a new beginning in the learning process.
I do see the correct connection between a master/teacher handing down knowledge to someone who goes on to teach it at the same level. Another one that is hard to judge.

If one were to consider "Master" on a more relative basis, there might be room for its more precise use.

There is "complete" knowledge of the particular art, performed at a level involving advanced energy use. There is the use of energy for martial and non-martial purposes in a controlled fashion, at will. These can be hard enough to legitimately identify. There is room for "error."

Suppose one could consider self mastery Not as having Arrived, but as going on that road with the tools and abilities derived from the art studied, after having reached a certain stage. This implies competence, vision and abilities beyond the commonplace.
Theoretically, some of this sort of thing can be started by someone who is less than a master in a martial art, far less. That is the potential for mastery for an aspect of an art, or for learning an entire system. A diamond chip. The problem might occur when such a person knows all the right moves, and has other abilities not understood by the students, but is not truly a "Master" of that art.
A mix of knowledge/ability, the exercise of will to cultivate and use ability, intent/judgment, accountability. By accountability, I mean responsibility for one's actions not only to one's teacher, but to others, even those ignorant of what has happened.
Where all of these are active on an advanced level, there might be room for the word "Master" to be used. Simply because it is the Best that can be done under the circumstances (the human condition).

I think using the word in the relative sense rather than a utopian one is theoretically interesting.
But, this status might be so difficult to determine, that "Sifu" is the preferred expression for me, and can be said with the same respect.

Cody

[apoweyn]

kung lek,

"This does not mean you cannot master a particular or even a whole slew of particulars."

not to be argumentative, but i'm inclined to think that that's precisely what it means.

take something as basic as a roundhouse kick. there will always be something else to improve on that kick. the telegraphing, speed, footwork leading into and out of the kick, angle of delivery, and so on. if all of those things can be varied, then they can presumably be improved. and if they can be improved, then i don't believe they've been "mastered."

but this is largely semantics. and semantics are, to my mind, very often more trouble than they're worth.


stuart b.

[Kung Lek]

i suppose.

but not every one is a master every day. some days are when you really are in tune and other days you spend on the toilet.

in the end there will always be someone better than you. For the sake of arguing this.
was Leonardo a master of what he did?
how about michaelangelo? or were they just well known with decent patrons? (i'm talking about the artists, not the turtles here before someone cracks wise :) )

on the other hand, did anyone happen to defeat Kyu Yu cheong? or lam sai wing? so, for all it's worth, these guys were "masters" of what it was they were doing.

as for the technique, if my roundhouse hits the mark everytime because i execute it on the opening everytime and it knocks the opponent down then have i mastered the roundhouse kick? I would say yes.

so, as you say, yes it is semantics, I say it is also relative to the skill level you are at compared to that of your students. (if you have any)

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[joedoe]

Mastery does not mean an end. All it means is that you have learned all your master has to teach you. To me, mastery means a beginning of growth, development and innovation.

Of course no one can be perfect every day, but it doesn't mean they are not a master.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[prana]

Although this may only apply to some...

For a person to call oneself a master, one should do this to help curb thoughts that negate progress. eg. by emanating oneself as the master of Tai-Chi, one trains single mindedly in a form, with this mindset, progress is at its best.

For one to call another a master, one practises humility to others; one opens up energy paths and if the teacher is skilled, then the student can receive 'heart' teachings. Also intellectualising is dropped, so that the art stays true and undistorted, and the underlying true message can be revealed. Else we end up winding in the dirt....

[apoweyn]

kung lek,

i see what you mean. but if i manage to hit someone and knock them down everytime with my roundhouse, it still doesn't equate to mastery in my mind. two reasons: 1) you just haven't met the guy that wouldn't have dropped (given how infrequently we actually fight these days) and 2) that still doesn't mean it can't be improved. you could drop them faster, expend less energy, etc.

come to think of it, the inability to improve is really a pretty useless definition of "master." and that's how i've been thinking of it. but when it comes right down to it, i just dislike the term.

ah, whatever. semantics. can't live with 'em. pass the beer nuts.


stuart b.

[Sow Choy]

Fu Pow,

I agree with your statements. Some Chinese sifus think of the word master as nothing more than the head of the school. This is usually the case when the school has been around a while and there are many instructors.

But too many people use the word too often, as a means of level. In my KF family level and things like being called master are not really cared about, just done to respect older teachers.

But too many so called masters and grandmasters look like they have not practiced for a long time.

just my thoughts,

Joe

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[Wongsifu]

i met a master once , this guy was amazing his job was to make the moulds that the concrete would be poured in to for houses , basicaly since the age of 13 till 35 all he did every day of his life as work was to get planks of wood hammer them together in the same manner and take them apart in the same manner, nothing but this, anyhow this guy was amazing , he had placed the nail on the wood so many times to hammer it into the wood, that he could put the nail halfway through the wood just with his fingers ready to hammer it without any effort. but thats what you get for 20 years of doing the same thing

This is because THC is not an alkaloid. It does not contain a nitrogen atom, therefore it is a terpenophenolic compound

[Fu-Pow]

Excellent

Fu-Pow

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