ermei snake oil salesman

[deejaye72]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es13X4cIimI&list=UURex0fFs_Ln2o769H3mFfZg


i was about to give up with this reject until i saw this. at .55 in the video sifu sergio demonstrates a tai chi dead palm! something my father taught to me from cheng man ching tai chi! at 1:14 in the video he does a shoulder rolling exercise again taught to me by my father from cheng man ching tai chi! then at 2:51 he demonstrates wing chun structure test! no man alive can push you back if you are under his elbows!!! hendrik did you teach this man this?? i almost fell out of my chair you my friend are a charlatan! you should be ashamed of your self for lying to people! i hope everyone dis owns for this! lmfao

[Hendrik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es13X4cIimI&list=UURex0fFs_Ln2o769H3mFfZg


i was about to give up with this reject until i saw this. at .55 in the video sifu sergio demonstrates a tai chi dead palm! something my father taught to me from cheng man ching tai chi! at 1:14 in the video he does a shoulder rolling exercise again taught to me by my father from cheng man ching tai chi! then at 2:51 he demonstrates wing chun structure test! no man alive can push you back if you are under his elbows!!!

hendrik did you teach this man this?? i almost fell out of my chair you my friend are a charlatan! you should be ashamed of your self for lying to people!

i hope everyone dis owns for this! lmfao


You are getting extremely ridiculous isn't it?

1. You are clueless on emei snake engine.
2. You blame me on anything you like .

Sure, next time blame me on Obama USA international policy too.

[deejaye72]

You are getting extremely ridiculous isn't it?

1. You are clueless on emei snake engine.
2. You blame me on anything you like .

Sure, next time blame me on Obama USA international policy too.

1. clueless? it's different then other internal arts? yeah right and to think i was justifying my skills to you? i'm the only fool

2. blame you for anything? i know your bottom line. you dont have the right to talk to me anymore nuff said
3. you probably voted for him

[KPM]

Yeah, I don't think you can blame Hendrik for what Sergio does. I didn't hear Sergio say anything about Emei Snake at all. But I agree with you that most of what Sergio is showing on that video is just leverage tricks.

[deejaye72]

Yeah, I don't think you can blame Hendrik for what Sergio does. I didn't hear Sergio say anything about Emei Snake at all. But I agree with you that most of what Sergio is showing on that video is just leverage tricks.

dont defend him! sergio was talking about force flow and momentum! all soup nazi's terminology

[Hendrik]

1. clueless? it's different then other internal arts? yeah right and to think i was justifying my skills to you? i'm the only fool

2. blame you for anything? i know your bottom line. you dont have the right to talk to me anymore nuff said
3. you probably voted for him


1. Yes , you are clueless on emei technology. Go do your home work before posting any ridiculus thing.

2. What go to do with me on Sergio video? I am not him. I am not his boss.
Can you know the different?

3. Are you a fotune teller ?

[deejaye72]

i kid you not i can teach my 13 year old son those tricks and duplicate that video in ten minutes!

[Hendrik]

dont defend him! sergio was talking about force flow and momentum! all soup nazi's terminology

So no one can talk about force flow and momentum?

I have never known that two words is mine pattent or my signature.

[GlennR]

2. What go to do with me on Sergio video? I am not him. I am not his boss.
Can you know the different?


Make your mind up, you gladly point to Sergios YouTube clips to back your claims yet disown him when it suits you...... so is what Sergio doing in that clip WC or not (by your standards)

[deejaye72]

i will not answer hendrik santo ever again! he is a disgrace. everybody on here can talk to him if they want i'm not. he cant kiss the dirt off my shoes, my fathers or my sigung. he should have offered me money to shut me up when i found that his instructions of his emie qigong were exactly what i learned in tai chi. that wasnt sergio, on his youtube channel!

[Hendrik]

Make your mind up, you gladly point to Sergios YouTube clips to back your claims yet disown him when it suits you...... so is what Sergio doing in that clip WC or not (by your standards)

You are very creative don't you?

[Hendrik]

i will not answer hendrik santo ever again! he is a disgrace. everybody on here can talk to him if they want i'm not. he cant kiss the dirt off my shoes, my fathers or my sigung. he should have offered me money to shut me up when i found that his instructions of his emie qigong were exactly what i learned in tai chi. that wasnt sergio, on his youtube channel!

You are free to be extremely creative.

[KPM]

i will not answer hendrik santo ever again! he is a disgrace. everybody on here can talk to him if they want i'm not. he cant kiss the dirt off my shoes, my fathers or my sigung. he should have offered me money to shut me up when i found that his instructions of his emie qigong were exactly what i learned in tai chi. that wasnt sergio, on his youtube channel!

Wow! He really p!ssed you off didn't he! Just because he wouldn't answer your questions? :eek: Because dude, you are sounding pretty crazy here!

[deejaye72]

So no one can talk about force flow and momentum?

I have never known that two words is mine pattent or my signature.
hahahahaha!!! yeah right. back pedaling now!!

[deejaye72]

Wow! He really p!ssed you off didn't he! Just because he wouldn't answer your questions? :eek: Because dude, you are sounding pretty crazy here!

if he would have simply said "its similar to other martial arts" when i said to him " thats what i learned in tai chi" instead of going on about how low level i am and i dont understand, and i'm name dropping. wow he has got you people snowballed!

[Hendrik]

if he would have simply said "its similar to other martial arts" when i said to him " thats what i learned in tai chi" instead of going on about how low level i am and i dont understand, and i'm name dropping. wow he has got you people snowballed!


Emei 12 zhuang is not taiji. Totally Different stuffs .

If one cannot recognize the facts. How high is ones level?

[Hendrik]

hahahahaha!!! yeah right. back pedaling now!!



I share with many many Wck sifus from different Wck lineages around the world.

All these sifus are free to take what I share evolve as they like it .

They are thier own man, No string attached , not dictating what they need to follow, no controlling cult contract , no approval from me needed, but plain sharing and they are free to operate as they like it.


Btw, I don't sale.

[deejaye72]

Hendrik,

Where could one find some detailed information on the 12 Posts, video, documents etc? I would like to analyze them before I comment on them. Do you know them? If so would you post some videos of them with comparisons to Wing Chun techniques? I'm willing to approach them and the theory with an open mind if it can be presented clearly and without bias.

Thanks,

Dave

hold on to your money. go find a good internal martial arts teacher. they can teach qigong too. do your research on your own. i will not give recomendations to anyone here. i dont prostitute martial arts.

[Firehawk4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQX8mZtZQww

[deejaye72]

i apologize to everyone here if i came off rude. i would never ever accuse someone i never met of having low level martial arts, ever!
i let him get to me, and i'm sorry. i caught him in a lie, and i know for a fact in my bones the truth. i dont care what anyone thinks. please dont believe me, research! i will not talk to him anymore. it's a principle, nothing to do with anyone here. my first mistake was not following a principle from a beautiful martial art that my father first taught to me in my 20's, and now i'm exploring it again with my dear tai chi sifu. that principle is to yield to a greater force.

if someone offers to teach you tai chi learn it, if someone offers to teach you grappling learn it, if someone offers to teach you german
long sword learn it. you will amazed at the beauty of all these martial arts and what they have to offer

[Firehawk4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcT3_2sEaAE

[deejaye72]

Slow down tiger. I've been hearing about these 12 Zhuang for years, time to see some proof of their exsistance. I've searched and searched and found very little information on them and don't know of anyone who actually has ever seen them or practiced them. Not saying that they don't exsist I would just like some tangible proof so that I can form my own opinion.

oh i'm sorry man, i didnt mean anything bad. i let his bad mouthing about my low level skill get to me. i dont know where you can find it. not many people are gonna teach it. seriously qigong is taught everywhere, and i dont mean the kind taught in yoga studio's. i quess that's not what you want to hear. i guess you wont find it on anyone's youtube channel lol. maybe you can post something on facebook to a qigong group, they might be able to lead you there.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik,

Where could one find some detailed information on the 12 Posts, video, documents etc? I would like to analyze them before I comment on them. Do you know them? If so would you post some videos of them with comparisons to Wing Chun techniques? I'm willing to approach them and the theory with an open mind if it can be presented clearly and without bias.

Thanks,

Dave



Get this book for accurate emei 12 zhuang information.


View the following video of mine on 1848 connection
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67546-A-brief-tour-to-1848&p=1266078#post1266078

[Hendrik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcT3_2sEaAE

Not relate to emei 12 zhuang.

[GlennR]

You are very creative don't you?

And you are very elusive in answering straight forward questions.

When one person (you) recommends watching a youtube clip that "proves" your theories (Sergio's), then you are basically saying that person is an authority in the subject at hand (WC).

So, easy question, was Sergio doing WC according to your way of thinking in the clip?

[Hendrik]

Slow down tiger. I've been hearing about these 12 Zhuang for years, time to see some proof of their exsistance. I've searched and searched and found very little information on them and don't know of anyone who actually has ever seen them or practiced them. Not saying that they don't exsist I would just like some tangible proof so that I can form my own opinion.


There will be a private by invitation only emei 12 zhuang seminal by the gate keeper of emei 12 zhuang Gm Fu in Boston area, for some wcners in the beginning of May 2014.

[Firehawk4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDzs7ShmQHc

[Hendrik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDzs7ShmQHc


Got zero to do with this

[Hendrik]

oh i'm sorry man, i didnt mean anything bad. i let his bad mouthing about my low level skill get to me. i dont know where you can find it. not many people are gonna teach it. seriously qigong is taught everywhere, and i dont mean the kind taught in yoga studio's. i quess that's not what you want to hear. i guess you wont find it on anyone's youtube channel lol. maybe you can post something on facebook to a qigong group, they might be able to lead you there.




Your presentation shows where you stand.

[deejaye72]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQX8mZtZQww

hahahaha! thats too funny

[deejaye72]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcT3_2sEaAE


please stop, i cant take it! hahahaha

[zuti car]

I would understand if he actually earns some money from all of this , buy looks like he really believes in his story and that is just sad .

[Firehawk4]

Wing Chun begins with Siu Lin Tao (Small/Little Ideas or Training). One of the Emei 12 Zhuang sets is called Siu Zhuang (Small/Little Ways). The first section of the Siu Lin Tao set (also found and further expanded on in the first section of the Biu Jee set) contains this same training concept for the hands/fingers as done in the Emei Mountain neigong sets. In the Cho family lienage, this section is called Snake Sliding Cocoon, in the Yuen Kay-San lineage it was originally called Sae Ying Sao (Snake Shape hand), and in the Fung family, Sae Mun Bai Jee (Four Direction Swaying Fingers). Many arts have this sort of training but what makes Wing Chun’s process different from that of other Fujian arts like Southern Mantis is the “Rou”(soft)-style Snake Binding property.

Emei also has the Tracing the Taiji Circle movement. In the same manner, in the Wing Chun lineages of Fung, Cho, Yuen and others, there is a common Sao Kuen/Sik (Fist or Section Closing Sequence), often referred to as Lop Sao, which is also popular in most southern martial art traditions. Wing Chun calls it the Taiji Circle, which is “O”-shape and an older, symbolic term for the line the fingers follow when performing the action. Another aspect of Emei is the Inch Silk Worm Finger, which functions like Wing Chun’s Darting Finger method. The actual Darting Finger motion itself is common to numerous Southern Fist traditions, and is even called by the same name in arts such as Southern Mantis.

Finally, Emei’s Tiger Walking sets have a first section called 8 Methods Under the Foot, which is similar to Wing Chun’s 8 leg methods or 8 kicks. Wing Chun masters have said it is composed of 12 Ways and 8 Methods, same description that Emei uses as well. Perhaps this Emei Snake was fused with the Fukien White Crane of Fang Chi Niang’s Five Plum footwork to create the Siu Lin Tao? Siu Lin Tao and its Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma are different and distinct from other Fukien arts. Instead, other Fukien arts and offshoots preserve the San Chin (3 battles)/ Su Men (4 gates) root (which is seen in the Hakka martial arts that were influenced by Tai Tzu Quan).

[Firehawk4]

https://www.google.com/#q=video++of+++emei+12+zhuang

[Hendrik]

What is the point to take Jim Rosalendo article and ask?




Wing Chun begins with Siu Lin Tao (Small/Little Ideas or Training). One of the Emei 12 Zhuang sets is called Siu Zhuang (Small/Little Ways). The first section of the Siu Lin Tao set (also found and further expanded on in the first section of the Biu Jee set) contains this same training concept for the hands/fingers as done in the Emei Mountain neigong sets. In the Cho family lienage, this section is called Snake Sliding Cocoon, in the Yuen Kay-San lineage it was originally called Sae Ying Sao (Snake Shape hand), and in the Fung family, Sae Mun Bai Jee (Four Direction Swaying Fingers). Many arts have this sort of training but what makes Wing Chun’s process different from that of other Fujian arts like Southern Mantis is the “Rou”(soft)-style Snake Binding property.

Emei also has the Tracing the Taiji Circle movement. In the same manner, in the Wing Chun lineages of Fung, Cho, Yuen and others, there is a common Sao Kuen/Sik (Fist or Section Closing Sequence), often referred to as Lop Sao, which is also popular in most southern martial art traditions. Wing Chun calls it the Taiji Circle, which is “O”-shape and an older, symbolic term for the line the fingers follow when performing the action. Another aspect of Emei is the Inch Silk Worm Finger, which functions like Wing Chun’s Darting Finger method. The actual Darting Finger motion itself is common to numerous Southern Fist traditions, and is even called by the same name in arts such as Southern Mantis.

Finally, Emei’s Tiger Walking sets have a first section called 8 Methods Under the Foot, which is similar to Wing Chun’s 8 leg methods or 8 kicks. Wing Chun masters have said it is composed of 12 Ways and 8 Methods, same description that Emei uses as well. Perhaps this Emei Snake was fused with the Fukien White Crane of Fang Chi Niang’s Five Plum footwork to create the Siu Lin Tao? Siu Lin Tao and its Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma are different and distinct from other Fukien arts. Instead, other Fukien arts and offshoots preserve the San Chin (3 battles)/ Su Men (4 gates) root (which is seen in the Hakka martial arts that were influenced by Tai Tzu Quan).

[Firehawk4]

I didnt know Jim Roselando wrote it . http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/CMAarticle14.htm

[Jim Roselando]

Emei Snake is certainly different from Taiji. A quote from GM Foo Wei Zhong on his special art and lineage:

"Snake Moving & Worm Crawling is the basic art of Emei Qigong!"

(GM Foo: Page 49-Emei 18 Methods Book)

If anyone is interested in Emei 12 Zhuang contact me! I am holding a private seminar with the headmaster of the Emei tradition on May 10th & 11th. The seminar is sold out but I might be able to squeeze in a few more if someone is truly interested...

Emei IS NOT Taiji!

Here is an example of me comparing Wing Chun's Snake mechanics to Yiquan, Taiji etc. It's different!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5SVdSR9_vs

[deejaye72]

okay it's different but it looks exactly the same. ok lets agree to diagree. it is a similar martial art, so similar that someone practicing another internal art recognizes basic drills, that he performs his own internal martial arts. nothing special. its an internal martial art!!
ok lets see ex: like a judo man working out with a sambo man., so similar they can work out toghter without going into extreme detail with each other. thats what i'm saying to be diplomatic. i still dont believe that a-hole, because anyone who really had something would not bad mouth someone he never met.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik & Jim,

Thanks for the direction. I will do my best to look into it. Jim please let me know the next time that one of these seminars are available, I can't make the one in May.

I am very interested in these 12 Zhuang so please do not take this the wrong way. People are skeptical because of the limited information and secrecy and are not willing to just take someones word for it. Personally I would like to experience and examine these exercises before I come to any conclusion, I'm sure others feel the same.

Firehawk posted some commentary alongside of Jim's writing. I know that this has been brought up before and debated, but I'm going to throw it out again. Setting the concept of "engine" aside, lets examine Sanzhan vs. Xiao Lian Tou. If one puts any stock into the old legends, it's been stated by many elders, that Bai He Quan was originally a system of Sanshi and that Sanzhan was originally a Zhan Zhuang practice and that the footwork and forms were a later development. If one examines the hand movements of each set they will see that there is more commonality than not. In Yonchun Bai He Quan's form of Qibu Sanzhan Quan the techniques presented up until the double hacking elbows are the exact same sequence as the 11 Hands section of Xiao Lian Tou found after the double crane wings, curious don't you think. As I've noted before there are other lineages that have a moving Xiao Lian Tou and it follows a model much closer to Sanzhan than anything else. This is in no way to refute that these 12 Zhuang were not infused within the Cho family system, but to make the statement that it was originally part of the greater system from the beginning may be a stretch. People want tangible proof to form their own opinions. Skeptics like a public format as compared to closed doors and secrecy. When it comes to making accusations and claims of proof Skeptics want not only an open door policy for questioning but also evidence in the way of examination, explanation and guidance. Some of this has been demonstrated but in order for it to be accepted it has to be correlated and confirmed by other parties that are privy to the information.

Hendrik, those clips that you posted from Youku on the other thread aren't working. They keep rerouting me, I'll try searching YouKu for examples.

Jim, since you have experience with these exercises and Fu Wei Zhong, would you be willing to post a clip or two? Could be privately if you are worried about the reaction.




1. A brief snap short here is you cannot view the above link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glBDez4CNDg&feature=youtube_gdata


2. IMHO, If one keep thinking taiji is everything on and doesn't see what infront of one s eyes then no one can help.
I brought up emei so that more information will come to the west. Otherwise, wcners will get stuck to not having this part of information.


3. If one keep want to accuse me on things got nothing to do with me , that is their freedom


4. Seriously, I don't even care if anyone take it or leave it. I make my SNT works and many like Jim has turn on their SNT engine . It is as simple as that. Even the fujian white crane engine alone is not fit SNT well, it is simply too coarse in handling .

One simply needs an indepth level of tcma to know, paper proof or mind speculation can get there. One needs to be able to read seven bows and six core elements signatures. Without that level of attainment, one simply don't know the different but superficial postures mimicking.

No one can replace a 1000 hours of training development with a mind speculation .


5. Forget about taiji, it got nothing to do with Wck, one wants to fully turn on the engine of SNT, one must use emei snake engine. Like it or not that is what it is . Anyone can cast it in stone. And let the future generation proof it.


6. I have never turn down those who is skeptic, from decade ago

I invit Jim to visit me, Kung fu fighter visit me, to many many others sifus from different Wck lineages around the world.

Ask Jim why is he walked in this emei direction ? Ask Kung fu fighter what has he experience, or even you can read WCL sifu Robert Chu article on the same issue in the recent two issues of WCI. Do you think all these wcners don't know what they talk about? Do you think Sifu Robert Chu who is the founder of CSLWCK will lie for me? Do you think Jim who is the close student of PSWCK china will made up things for me?

However, I can't help those who keep thinking their taiji is the ultimate without even know what I am talking about. And keep trying to accuse me with anything got zero to do with me . Just because his taiji ultimate fantasy is broken.
Or those who is asking for carbon test on "bible " instead of learn how to pray and experience what and how prayer is.

[deejaye72]

i figured out where hendriks tai chi, internal martial connection is from.

[Hendrik]

Jim & Hendrik,

I just watched a clip on the "Ermei Small Character" form. From what I witnessed I seen nothing unique and any connection to Wing Chun as a whole, IMO, is tenuous at best. What I seen was nothing short of Nei Gong (Internal Skills) exercise based upon Small and Large Circulation. These principles and techniques are found in many Qigong systems and are not unique to Ermei. These same movements and concepts can be found in Tibetan White Crane Sect's version of Small 5 Patterns Fist, Zhineng Qigong, Yang Shi Taijiquan, Soaring Crane Qigong and in Fujian versions of Sanzhan Quan just to name a few. What I seen was closer mechanically to Fujian Crane methods such as Calling Crane Fist than Wing Chun. Any link is very interpretative IMO. This link lends itself to the same argument in Alan Orr's thread, now I'm not going to tell you that Ermei Shier Zhuang is not present in your Wing Chun if that is what you believe, but I don't see it. "Bio-mechanically" speaking, I think that methods such as Hongjia 5 Pattern Fist, Tibetan White Crane's Small 5 Pattern Fist & Yongchun White Crane's Sanzhan variations along with their "Gong" methods are conceptually and mechanically closer in dynamics to Xiao Lian Tou than Ermei Shier Zhuang. This to me makes more sense logically as these arts have a common ancestry. This is not to say that there weren't some elements present just not enough in my book to say a direct link is evident, irregardless of what any literature says. I cannot support the claim that this is the "Engine" of Wing Chun. The movements presented do not have the same properties as those found in Wing Chun IMO, two completely different purposes of use. One is a band-aid the other a knife, complete opposites. This doesn't mean that they are not compatible if you are looking to make your Wing Chun a health and religious practice, but you have to ask yourself is that the original intention and purpose of Wing Chun and it's concepts?

1. You are free to think as you like.



2. Technically , in fact, you don't see it because you don't read seven bows and six core elements signatures.
Wck high speed acceleration short Jin is develop by emei 12 zhuang snake slide technology. Not other art.




3. Not to mention, yik kam SLT is a solid data point of Wck 1848 .



4. If it is this simple, Jim who has different internal art background would not spend decade in develop it. Sifu Robert Chu will not write about it . Kungfu fighter will not talking to me after visiting me.

Not to mention Wck SNT is practically dead today, in past sixty years many wcners are borrowing other art trying to make it alive without success.


5. It is ok for others to have their own view. That is normal.

[pazman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lv5uJTdn6I

[JPinAZ]

Yeah, I don't think you can blame Hendrik for what Sergio does. I didn't hear Sergio say anything about Emei Snake at all. But I agree with you that most of what Sergio is showing on that video is just leverage tricks.

While I'd rather not get involved with Hendrik's nonsense, Sergio actually did give credit back to Hendrik in one of his other videos, and also in his comments on FB & YT.

Now, While he doesn't mention Hendrik directly, here's his comments on Wing Chun Forum on FB regarding this same video that was poster there where he does talk about both Hendrik's WC=Emei Snake+Crane nonsense:


Sifu Sergio - The drills iam doing are from white crane a wing chun ancestor together with Emei,and moreover the yielding and seven bows technology can be found in the wing chun from before 1854 yik Kam Wing chun for example. Robert Chu's Wing Chun is very advanced in using Force flow Through the 7 bows too in fact he was one of the sifu's teaching about this already decades ago.

So, it looks like even Sergio has gotten enough sense to distance himself from Hendrik a little, but he's still crediting back to his (and Robert's) teaching & quoting Hendrik almost word for word.

[deejaye72]

Robert Chu's Wing Chun is very advanced in using Force flow Through the 7 bows too in fact he was one of the sifu's teaching about this already decades ago.

I studied with many teachers in New York Chinatown, and wanted to explore the Chinese martial arts as extensively as I could. I thought all systems had their good and bad points, and I thought to cross train and improve myself with the various systems. Also, as young man, I was also seeking for a system that suited me best personally, and I wanted to sample what I could. NY Chinatown had all systems - 7 star praying mantis, white crane, Lion Fist, Hung Ga, Bak Mei, Lung Ying Mor Kiu, Hung Fut, Northern Shaolin and many other systems. Some masters in Chinatown were masters of legitimate systems, some masters just made things up.- robert chu

my father and i are both from new york. my father studied many systems in new york chinatown in the 70's...what a strange coincidence. i can go on and get into detail. its not worth it.

[pazman]

Hey guys.
8382

[Hendrik]

5. Here's the deal. You quit trying to convince me and I'll stop re-butting you.


I have never intend to convince anyone including you.

[KPM]

pazman, cut the cr@p. If I was a moderator, you would now be banned from this forum.

[pazman]

Why would I be banned?
8383

[VT Andy]

okay it's different but it looks exactly the same. ok lets agree to diagree. it is a similar martial art, so similar that someone practicing another internal art recognizes basic drills, that he performs his own internal martial arts. nothing special. its an internal martial art!!
ok lets see ex: like a judo man working out with a sambo man., so similar they can work out toghter without going into extreme detail with each other. thats what i'm saying to be diplomatic. i still dont believe that a-hole, because anyone who really had something would not bad mouth someone he never met.

Hey Eddie, I must agree with you all this nothing special but trying to market something new twist to try to be special.

I think it is funny thing for people thinking Sergio as some authority on Wing Chun. He is youtube addict, always getting fooled by other frauds how can he be a Wing Chun expert?

1. That Chi Sim guy Andraes Hoffman fooled Sergio into think that Wing Chun came from Chi Sim. Sergio teamed up with him and launched a very anti-yip man propoganda try twist Yip man legacy in nonsense and tell the world Yip Man made up his kung fu. Short lived failure.

2. Then he is fooled by the Ng Cho Kuen culprit from Ken Lin telling the world again that HKB Black Flag is the real most dangerous assassin Wing Chun but is all hoax made up by Lin. Ex students of Lin in UK shared public that Ken Lin is really only had 8 Wing Chun lesson under Chung Che Man and is really 6 generation in Yip Man line. Before Lin have no Wing Chun background at all. Another failure.

3. Now hes following this thousands posts daily internet addict whatever Santos about Snake method mixing into with Wing Chun and personally add Tai Chi only confusing more people because he still search for what is Wing Chun means he does not know yet. Whatever suit him i guess is the standard.

Disown by Leung Ting, separate from Keith Kernspect, jump from one fraud to next, now it only show that he really does not know what is Wing Chun to be fooled over again. How can this guy be WC Expert when so easily fooled by frauds? This Sergio is lost in youtube land and cannot be taken seriously.

[deejaye72]

Hey Eddie, I must agree with you all this nothing special but trying to market something new twist to try to be special.

I think it is funny thing for people thinking Sergio as some authority on Wing Chun. He is youtube addict, always getting fooled by other frauds how can he be a Wing Chun expert?

1. That Chi Sim guy Andraes Hoffman fooled Sergio into think that Wing Chun came from Chi Sim. Sergio teamed up with him and launched a very anti-yip man propoganda try twist Yip man legacy in nonsense and tell the world Yip Man made up his kung fu. Short lived failure.

2. Then he is fooled by the Ng Cho Kuen culprit from Ken Lin telling the world again that HKB Black Flag is the real most dangerous assassin Wing Chun but is all hoax made up by Lin. Ex students of Lin in UK shared public that Ken Lin is really only had 8 Wing Chun lesson under Chu Chong Man and is really 6 generation in Yip Man line. Before Lin have no Wing Chun background at all. Another failure.


3. Now hes following this thousands posts daily internet addict whatever Santos about Snake method mixing into with Wing Chun and personally add Tai Chi only confusing more people because he still search for what is Wing Chun means he does not know yet. Whatever suit him i guess is the standard.

Disown by Leung Ting, separate from Keith Kernspect, jump from one fraud to next, now it only show that he really does not know what is Wing Chun to be fooled over again. How can this guy be WC Expert when so easily fooled by frauds? This Sergio is lost in youtube land and cannot be taken seriously.

yeah , its a great twist smash together some martial arts, and then some documents, sucker some stupid gwai lo's. not a bad idea

[GlennR]

With all do respect, I do not care what opinions others present on a subject, irregardless of their popularity, fame, affiliation or knowledge. I will form my own opinions based upon investigation by myself not someone else's word. I will take in points for consideration, but I am not a sheep who will be blindly led. I am confident in my ability to comprehend and formulate my own conclusions based upon investigation of evidence, education and experience. I can't support the link that Ermei Shier Zhuang is the "Engine" of Wing Chun collectively. I see links to other methods that fit in more closely to the philosophy and use. Until some real hard evidence presents itself I'm still very much a skeptic. There is no result that hasn't been relayed by any demonstration of "Snake Engine" that I couldn't duplicate or correlate with/to another Qigong method. If it works for you, fantastic, but don't try to convince me that it is the "Holy Grail" of Wing Chun "Bio-Mechanics" without presenting a whole lot more evidence than what has been. I've approached this subject with an open mind but I see nothing to support your argument.

Nice post dlcox

[deejaye72]

Nice post dlcox

i agree nice post

[VT Andy]

yeah , its a great twist smash together some martial arts, and then some documents, sucker some stupid gwai lo's. not a bad idea

Clarify I meant to write Chung Che Man (not Chu Chong Man) of Victor Leow line was Ken Lin's WC Sifu and only gave him 8 classes. Sorry

Andy.

[kentchang]

1. Yes , you are clueless on emei technology. Go do your home work before posting any ridiculus thing.

2. What go to do with me on Sergio video? I am not him. I am not his boss.
Can you know the different?

3. Are you a fotune teller ?

Where did Hendrik learn his Ermei 12 Zheung from?
Hendrik requested to baisee in the Facebook. Would it be possible for Hendrik to learn his Ermei 12 Zheung from Facebook?


Originally Posted by Daniel Fong
R should be Robert Chu definitely. Robert Chu had mentioned that Sifu Wayne Yung and Hendrik Santo are both his SiHings in SCWC and YKWC respectively in his Facebook postings. Also, Hendrik openly requested to baisee to Sifu Wayne Yung's sifu in the facebook, and was accepted until the baisee ceremony completed. However, later on, Hendrik posted public announcements in Facebook and KFO here, that no more relationship dealing with SCWC. Today, what he does with others dealing with the SCWC document betraying SCWC. Too bad... Are they both Qishimiezu (欺師滅祖) ?

Daniel Fong is not a fortune teller, but he knows something about you!


Originally Posted by Daniel Fong
Same interesting question on Robert Chu and Hendrik Santo, when and where did they learn their SCWC from Sifu Wayne Yung or his sifu?

Never heard about baisee through Facebook, and Baisee should be serious. Will Hendrik respect SCWCM ? Without doing any baisee ceremony, and in high key to make public announcement to leave SCWC. Is it suitable to do? Too bad!!! Hendrik is always proud on his wck research and knowledge. I heard Robert baisee in last October,2013 to SCWCM, and his sifu, after having a cup of tea, just show him SCWC slt only. How long Robert staying with his sifu ? How much SCWC he learn from his sifu ?

Robert claimed himself reading SCWC secret document. Did his baisee just for the document ? If it is, really sick on him. Today, both these guys betrayed SCWC, and going to Sifu Sergio. There should be a big deal there!!!

[kentchang]

With all do respect, I do not care what opinions others present on a subject, irregardless of their popularity, fame, affiliation or knowledge. I will form my own opinions based upon investigation by myself not someone else's word. I will take in points for consideration, but I am not a sheep who will be blindly led. I am confident in my ability to comprehend and formulate my own conclusions based upon investigation of evidence, education and experience. I can't support the link that Ermei Shier Zhuang is the "Engine" of Wing Chun collectively. I see links to other methods that fit in more closely to the philosophy and use. Until some real hard evidence presents itself I'm still very much a skeptic. There is no result that hasn't been relayed by any demonstration of "Snake Engine" that I couldn't duplicate or correlate with/to another Qigong method. If it works for you, fantastic, but don't try to convince me that it is the "Holy Grail" of Wing Chun "Bio-Mechanics" without presenting a whole lot more evidence than what has been. I've approached this subject with an open mind but I see nothing to support your argument.

Good post!

[kentchang]

Hey Eddie, I must agree with you all this nothing special but trying to market something new twist to try to be special.

I think it is funny thing for people thinking Sergio as some authority on Wing Chun. He is youtube addict, always getting fooled by other frauds how can he be a Wing Chun expert?

1. That Chi Sim guy Andraes Hoffman fooled Sergio into think that Wing Chun came from Chi Sim. Sergio teamed up with him and launched a very anti-yip man propoganda try twist Yip man legacy in nonsense and tell the world Yip Man made up his kung fu. Short lived failure.

2. Then he is fooled by the Ng Cho Kuen culprit from Ken Lin telling the world again that HKB Black Flag is the real most dangerous assassin Wing Chun but is all hoax made up by Lin. Ex students of Lin in UK shared public that Ken Lin is really only had 8 Wing Chun lesson under Chung Che Man and is really 6 generation in Yip Man line. Before Lin have no Wing Chun background at all. Another failure.

3. Now hes following this thousands posts daily internet addict whatever Santos about Snake method mixing into with Wing Chun and personally add Tai Chi only confusing more people because he still search for what is Wing Chun means he does not know yet. Whatever suit him i guess is the standard.

Disown by Leung Ting, separate from Keith Kernspect, jump from one fraud to next, now it only show that he really does not know what is Wing Chun to be fooled over again. How can this guy be WC Expert when so easily fooled by frauds? This Sergio is lost in youtube land and cannot be taken seriously.

People slowly coming around to your point of view.

[VT Andy]

Where did Hendrik learn his Ermei 12 Zheung from?
Hendrik requested to baisee in the Facebook. Would it be possible for Hendrik to learn his Ermei 12 Zheung from Facebook?

Originally Posted by Daniel Fong
R should be Robert Chu definitely. Robert Chu had mentioned that Sifu Wayne Yung and Hendrik Santo are both his SiHings in SCWC and YKWC respectively in his Facebook postings. Also, Hendrik openly requested to baisee to Sifu Wayne Yung's sifu in the facebook, and was accepted until the baisee ceremony completed. However, later on, Hendrik posted public announcements in Facebook and KFO here, that no more relationship dealing with SCWC. Today, what he does with others dealing with the SCWC document betraying SCWC. Too bad... Are they both Qishimiezu (欺師滅祖) ?

Daniel Fong is not a fortune teller, but he knows something about you!

Originally Posted by Daniel Fong
Same interesting question on Robert Chu and Hendrik Santo, when and where did they learn their SCWC from Sifu Wayne Yung or his sifu?

Never heard about baisee through Facebook, and Baisee should be serious. Will Hendrik respect SCWCM ? Without doing any baisee ceremony, and in high key to make public announcement to leave SCWC. Is it suitable to do? Too bad!!! Hendrik is always proud on his wck research and knowledge. I heard Robert baisee in last October,2013 to SCWCM, and his sifu, after having a cup of tea, just show him SCWC slt only. How long Robert staying with his sifu ? How much SCWC he learn from his sifu ?

Robert claimed himself reading SCWC secret document. Did his baisee just for the document ? If it is, really sick on him. Today, both these guys betrayed SCWC, and going to Sifu Sergio. There should be a big deal there!!!That will be the day when all things kung fu is done online. It is so strange and unheard to do baisee over internet, isn't that insulting to a Sifu? Must not be worth time and energy to have face to face relationship just pay for information and title only. Although I know people these days try to learn everything use videos and internet to replace the Sifu. Sergio enables these trends and becomes a celebrity. IMO no replacing kung fu culture with digital world, and is very bad trend this generation to try to get things for free. I can understand why the SCWCM always maintain low profile to preserve their ways.

[VT Andy]

yeah , its a great twist smash together some martial arts, and then some documents, sucker some stupid gwai lo's. not a bad ideaWhen the world accepts standard of excellence to be based on individual creativity rather than understand and know nature of principles - the world falls apart.

[VT Andy]

With all do respect, I do not care what opinions others present on a subject, irregardless of their popularity, fame, affiliation or knowledge. I will form my own opinions based upon investigation by myself not someone else's word. I will take in points for consideration, but I am not a sheep who will be blindly led. I am confident in my ability to comprehend and formulate my own conclusions based upon investigation of evidence, education and experience. I can't support the link that Ermei Shier Zhuang is the "Engine" of Wing Chun collectively. I see links to other methods that fit in more closely to the philosophy and use. Until some real hard evidence presents itself I'm still very much a skeptic. There is no result that hasn't been relayed by any demonstration of "Snake Engine" that I couldn't duplicate or correlate with/to another Qigong method. If it works for you, fantastic, but don't try to convince me that it is the "Holy Grail" of Wing Chun "Bio-Mechanics" without presenting a whole lot more evidence than what has been. I've approached this subject with an open mind but I see nothing to support your argument.Agree! Best to stand on your own two feet than use others as a crutch.

Andy

[deejaye72]

Where did Hendrik learn his Ermei 12 Zheung from?
Hendrik requested to baisee in the Facebook. Would it be possible for Hendrik to learn his Ermei 12 Zheung from Facebook?



Daniel Fong is not a fortune teller, but he knows something about you!

i feel bad for sifu wayne yung. the poor guy doesnt know who to trust!

[kentchang]

Again Sergio has published in videos what has proved to be false information from very unreliable sources such as Hendrik and Robert Chu. It is surprising that from the previous controversial phony black flag wing Chun story that he has still not learned to verify genuine information from genuine sources.

Thanks to members of the Yik Kam and Cho families coming forward in public, sharing the real story of Yik Kam. Their version is quite different from Hendrik's version. Now, here are the facts of Yik Kam's SLT below. Judge for yourselves.

For over a decade Hendrik has made thousands of posts of false claims about Ermei. The Yik Kam and Cho families have said they have nothing to do with Ermei, so obviously Hendrik is either very delusional or he has some kind of agenda.


Originally Posted by FongSung
As H.Santo has clarified he speaks for himself not on behalf of Ban Chung Wing Chun as past on by the Cho Family.

I have been learning from the Cho Family inheritors in SEA and Ng Wu, China for 8 years and nobody has acknowledged or heard it been said that there is any connection to Ermei. The only reference I have heard is to Siu Lam hence the old name to represent all old opera / red boat kung fu .. Ban Chung Siu Lam.

I do find it strange that after all these years of so called research and going back to China that H. Santo has never been back to Ng Wu to pay his respects and do research into the family names he uses so freely? I assure you both the Cho and Yik families are still around!

The fact is, as he has stated, he has found his own way and interpretation based on his own research into the other arts he has learnt .

Make your voice heard.
1) Within the Yik Kam and Cho families-- "nobody has acknowledged or heard it been said that there is any connection to Emei."
2) Surprise! no Ermei but Siu Lam (Shaolin) connection --"The only reference I have heard is to Siu Lam"
3) Very strange behavior -- "after all these years of so called research "H. Santo has never been back to Ng Wu to pay his respects and do research into the family names he uses so freely? "
4) The myth of Ermei 12 Zheung is not originally from Yik 's SLT, this is another one of Hendrik's fairy tales. -- "as he has stated, he has found his own way and interpretation based on his own research into the other arts he has learnt "

[KPM]

For over a decade Hendrik has made thousands of posts of false claims about Ermei. The Yik Kam and Cho families have said they have nothing to do with Ermei, so obviously Hendrik is either very delusional or he has some kind of agenda.

Isn't it possible that the Yik and Cho families don't mention a Emei connection because they are unaware of it? What if you had a German ancestor 4 generations ago? If your grandfather never mentioned it and was unaware of it does that make it untrue?


1) Within the Yik Kam and Cho families-- "nobody has acknowledged or heard it been said that there is any connection to Emei."

See above. I don't know much at all about your lineage. Does it have the legend of Ng Mui and the fight between a Snake and a Crane?

3) Very strange behavior -- "after all these years of so called research "H. Santo has never been back to Ng Wu to pay his respects and do research into the family names he uses so freely? "

So what? Ng Wu wasn't Hendrik's teacher. From what he has written it doesn't seem that Hendrik is practicing the Cho family Wing Chun as a whole. He is from a different branch of the family.

[Hendrik]

For over a decade Hendrik has made thousands of posts of false claims about Ermei.

The Yik Kam and Cho families have said they have nothing to do with Ermei, so obviously Hendrik is either very delusional or he has some kind of agenda.


1) Within the Yik Kam and Cho families-- "nobody has acknowledged or heard it been said that there is any connection to Emei."






A,

The following , as attached , is a SNT kuit from Ban Chung Wing Chun kuen, a Cho family off spring lineage, this was given to me in 2000 in Singapore, with the original hand writing.


By evidence ,

the SNT kuit of this Ban Chung lineage consist of both

1. Choy Lee Fut term , see high light,

and

2. Two Lines could be traced to the complete Yik kam SLT kuit , line Y7 and Y8,
and further more, Y7 Y8 are both from emei 12 zhuang kuit, see high light


Thus, one knows, this lineage has both of Choy Lee Fut and Emei elements by evidence.

Thus, emei connection exist, disregards of one aware of it or not.




B,

My agenda is

To Give credit to where credit due.
Remember and Appreciate ones own root or source where one comes from.
To put back what is there




C,

I am one of the legitimate within the Yik Kam and Cho families , who is encourage and given permit to teach in the USA by my late sifu , Gm Cho Hung Choy, since early 1980s.

my late sifu Cho Hung Choy is the Dai Siheng under My sigung Cho on in 1950s era. Cho on is the head of Cho family WCK in Penang Malaysia in his era. my sifu also has studied with Cho Chin who is the head of Cho family Wck in China. In additional, my late sifu also has study with Sam Chan the student of Cho soon. Sam chan is the grand student of Yik kam.


With the above evidence, I acknowledge the connection to Emei of my lineage again.


I respect the view of Other Yik kam or Cho family lineages, and believe they are free to have their own view.

I don't speak for other lineages of yik kam or Cho family off spring, but I can speak for my own lineage.



Finally, for wcners ,
beside my Late Sigung Cho on and my late sifu Cho Hung Choy,
no other lineages or person can speak for my sifu lineage ,
nor have any authority or seniority to address my position and my inheritance in yik kam and Cho family

[FongSung]

3) Very strange behavior -- "after all these years of so called research "H. Santo has never been back to Ng Wu to pay his respects and do research into the family names he uses so freely? "

So what? Ng Wu wasn't Hendrik's teacher. From what he has written it doesn't seem that Hendrik is practicing the Cho family Wing Chun as a whole. He is from a different branch of the family.

Nga Wu village was the home of Yik Gam and Cho Family. It where Cho Yin On came from and where Cho Chuen remained. Research these two names.

As a self proclaimed researcher H. Santo has ignored a part of and the source of his own lineages Kung Fu some people would find this strange if you or other don't then fair enough...

H. Santo has said openly many times everyone from Cho Family lineages in SEA and China have lost the true wing chun "engine" (including the people he calls Siheng) stating Hung Kuen or CLF engines.
Cho Bak Lun learnt from his father (Cho Chuen) all his life until his fathers passing.
Ku Cho Wah learnt from his uncle Lau Soon Yeun since 1968 and from Cho Yin On directly since 1972 until his passing in 1993. In 1986 he was chosen by Cho Yin On as his inheritor.
Apparently only H. Santo knows the true WC of Cho Family or Yik Kam and the blood descendants and inheritors have lost what was pasted down father to son and from master to chosen inheritor.

How many years did H. Santo learn from his Sifu before leaving for the US at the same time doing Karate.....?

Is he a Chi Kung expert most probably, is his chi kung exercise good for you and cure your bad back most probably.

Does H. Santo have Cho Family flavour and application? not from what I can see or from what he has explained in his many video's BUT this is just my personal opinion from my own hands on experiences (as a poor student) with Family Elders in SEA and China over the last 8 years.


Am I saying H. Santo did not learn Cho Family WC... NO, of course not. I know he learnt in Cho Hong Choi's School in Malaysia.
I am saying what he is doing or saying is rubbish....NO.
Have I touched hands with him...No.

For all I know he may be a genius! and I wish him well with his continue with his evolution of his own WC.

Carlos Kennerley

[FongSung]

Kuit Kuit Kuit.... There is so much kuit.

SLT Kor Kuit
SLT Hau Kuit
Kuen Kuit
Hau Kuit
Yan Yee Do Kuit
Luk Dim Bun Gwan Kuit
Muk Yan Jong Kuit
Chi Sao Kuit
Mor Kiu Kuit...... the list goes on.

There is actually even poetry past down for every movement of the SLT 108 like in Tai Chi, Hung Kuen, CLF in our family.


Ban Chung Wing Chun kuen, a Cho family off spring lineage

Ban Chung Wing Chun was the name used in China by Cho Family and also used by Cho Yin On in Malaysia.


By evidence ,

the SNT kuit of this Ban Chung lineage consist of both

1. Choy Lee Fut term , see high light,

Judge for yourself:
念 頭 膀 手 龍 擺 尾
Lin tau bong2 sau2 lung4 baai2 mei5
The idea of Bong Sau is like a dragon flipping/swaying its tail

落 睜 夾 膀 虎 跳 蹄
Lok6 jang1 gip6 bong2 fu2 tiu3 tai4
Lower and close in your elbows like a tiger ready to pounce forward

二 字 拑 陽 力 滾 身
Yi6 ji6 kim yeung4 lik6 kwan2 san1
The character 2 clamping stance will give you energy throughout your body - (Does anyone recognise this from some recent youtube video's :) )


Very CLF I must say???

BUT It is fact that Cho Yin On and Cho Chuen both learnt modified CLF and did Cho Hong Choi in fact he was quite famous in Penang for his CLF. Cho Shun was one of the last batch of in-door students of Chan Huang founder of CLF.


my sifu also has studied with Cho Chin who is the head of Cho family Wck in China.,

Yes, Cho Hung Choi did go to China to find a wife but he didn't learn any Kung Fu from Cho Chuen this is confirmed by the Todai and son of Cho Chuen in China.


I do not mean to attack anyone I just stating the facts as I know them from the Cho Family inheritors.



Carlos Kennerley

[JPinAZ]

Is he [Hendrik] a Chi Kung expert most probably, is his chi kung exercise good for you and cure your bad back most probably.

Haha, you wouldn't know it by looking at him with his horribly poor posture and physical conditions...:eek:

[JPinAZ]

Kuit Kuit Kuit.... There is so much kuit.

SLT Kor Kuit
SLT Hau Kuit
Kuen Kuit
Hau Kuit
Yan Yee Do Kuit
Luk Dim Bun Gwan Kuit
Muk Yan Jong Kuit
Chi Sao Kuit
Mor Kiu Kuit...... the list goes on.

There is actually even poetry past down for every movement of the SLT 108 like in Tai Chi, Hung Kuen, CLF in our family.

Ban Chung Wing Chun was the name used in China by Cho Family and also used by Cho Yin On in Malaysia.

Judge for yourself:
念 頭 膀 手 龍 擺 尾
Lin tau bong2 sau2 lung4 baai2 mei5
The idea of Bong Sau is like a dragon flipping/swaying its tail

落 睜 夾 膀 虎 跳 蹄
Lok6 jang1 gip6 bong2 fu2 tiu3 tai4
Lower and close in your elbows like a tiger ready to pounce forward

二 字 拑 陽 力 滾 身
Yi6 ji6 kim yeung4 lik6 kwan2 san1
The character 2 clamping stance will give you energy throughout your body - (Does anyone recognise this from some recent youtube video's :) )

Very CLF I must say???

BUT It is fact that Cho Yin On and Cho Chuen both learnt modified CLF and did Cho Hong Choi in fact he was quite famous in Penang for his CLF. Cho Shun was one of the last batch of in-door students of Chan Huang founder of CLF.

Yes, Cho Hung Choi did go to China to find a wife but he didn't learn any Kung Fu from Cho Chuen this is confirmed by the Todai and son of Cho Chuen in China.
I do not mean to attack anyone I just stating the facts as I know them from the Cho Family inheritors.

Carlos Kennerley

Very interesting information Carlos!
It is great to get a second opinion from someone that has current & direct experince and first-hand knowledge of this stuff - thanks for sharing!

[Hendrik]

did Cho Hong Choi in fact he was quite famous in Penang for his CLF. ....


Yes, Cho Hung Choi did go to China to find a wife but he didn't learn any Kung Fu from Cho Chuen this is confirmed by the Todai and son of Cho Chuen in China.


I do not mean to attack anyone I just stating the facts as I know them from the Cho Family inheritors.

Carlos Kennerley


Not the case in public record as in the attached scanning from 1970s Hong Kong book on My Late sifu Cho Hung Choy


Please find out what is going on before you post on what you don't know
or take anyone's word who don't know what they are talking about .
And also do not drop name or title,

get a writing with signature and post it on any stories anyone want to tell. One needs to be responsible for the story one tell.

[kung fu fighter]

Nga Wu village was the home of Yik Gam and Cho Family. It where Cho Yin On came from and where Cho Chuen remained. Research these two names.

As a self proclaimed researcher H. Santo has ignored a part of and the source of his own lineages Kung Fu some people would find this strange if you or other don't then fair enough...

H. Santo has said openly many times everyone from Cho Family lineages in SEA and China have lost the true wing chun "engine" (including the people he calls Siheng) stating Hung Kuen or CLF engines.
Cho Bak Lun learnt from his father (Cho Chuen) all his life until his fathers passing.
Ku Cho Wah learnt from his uncle Lau Soon Yeun since 1968 and from Cho Yin On directly since 1972 until his passing in 1993. In 1986 he was chosen by Cho Yin On as his inheritor.
Apparently only H. Santo knows the true WC of Cho Family or Yik Kam and the blood descendants and inheritors have lost what was pasted down father to son and from master to chosen inheritor.

How many years did H. Santo learn from his Sifu before leaving for the US at the same time doing Karate.....?

Is he a Chi Kung expert most probably, is his chi kung exercise good for you and cure your bad back most probably.

Does H. Santo have Cho Family flavour and application? not from what I can see or from what he has explained in his many video's BUT this is just my personal opinion from my own hands on experiences (as a poor student) with Family Elders in SEA and China over the last 8 years.


Am I saying H. Santo did not learn Cho Family WC... NO, of course not. I know he learnt in Cho Hong Choi's School in Malaysia.
I am saying what he is doing or saying is rubbish....NO.
Have I touched hands with him...No.

For all I know he may be a genius! and I wish him well with his continue with his evolution of his own WC.

Carlos Kennerley

Hi Carlos,
I can tell you first hand, that i've seen sifu Ku Chi Wah version of Cho Ga wck through one of his most senior student, and even had the opportunity to touch hands with him and there was nothing there that impressed me.

When I met H Santo, he not only impressed me with his wck internal knowledge, he was able to do what he said he could do, and I was able to do it as well.

I don't know who has the most authentic version of Cho Ga wck since I was not there when Yik Kam passed it on. But I can definitely tell you who has the most effective. For all we know Yik Kam did not even know about the Emei wck connection, even though he was doing it. Because you got to remember the emei stuff was top secret back then, but now that everything is opening up, Hendrik has the opportunity to cross reference certain things like the snake engine.

[JPinAZ]

When I met H Santo, he not only impressed me with his wck internal knowledge, he was able to do what he said he could do, and I was able to do it as well.

Could you give us some examples of what it was that you saw/felt Hendrik was 'able to do'?

[Hendrik]

Contradict to the recent stories made by people who doesn't know or even have never met my late sifu,
Attached is the evidence from many different sources, from the 1960 and 1970s , on Gm Cho Hung Choy. Who is a wing chuner of his era.





1. There is photo from new martial hero magazine showing the salutation of Cho family,
where one can read about him.

2. Gm Cho is a very scientific person and keep very details documentations. He doesn't have ipad as us today but he takes photos to keep records.

3. In mid 1970, Gm Cho and myself appear in the Penang tournament booklet represent wing chun school. Two of my sihengs were competing. And My Sigung Cho On were visiting Guiding them. In fact, Sigung Cho On remind us , his grand students , on the yik kam SLT kuit . Which is the core of Cho family Yik kam Wck.
" Yc12圈冚挑㩹常要用 Circle outward, inward, pick, stack are often used".

4. Gm Cho and myself were invited to many different Penang traditional Chinese martial art school dinner, this badge is the from the Penang Seven Stars Praying mantis dinner.

5. In the 1970s, When Gm Wong Shun Leong of YM lineage send his middle man to Penang wanting to arrange for a kong Sau with A Cho family member who Wong has issue with. Gm Cho Hung Choy was contacted because He is both a senior of cho family wing chun kuen in Penang Malaysia and one of the person who is known for many Kong Sau.






If my sifu still alive today, he is in his 90s. When he starts Wck in mid 1940, where are those people who is making up stories today playing know it all? When he is at his peak at 1960 and 1970, where are these stories makers today? Can they even shows their present at that era? Similar to the evidence from multiple sources I show it here?

I have no issue with others stories making, and never DO I like to interfere with other Cho family lineages on who want to claim what or tiTle ."

but it is my responsibility and right to present the facts of my late sifu and what is in Cho family Yik Kam I have inherited to the wcners world wide.

[kung fu fighter]

Could you give us some examples of what it was that you saw/felt Hendrik was 'able to do'?

Sure! at times his movements was very connected and powerful, whatever force you applied on him was reverberated back to you disturbing our own structure and root. At other times it was light.

Like Hendrik mentioned in another thread we are both doing the snake engine force line type power generation, but we express it differently.

[Hendrik]

"the people he calls Siheng) stating Hung Kuen or CLF engines. "


Why can't I present the truth of my sifu lineage ,that, the following is not the Wck my sifu taught?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26CFsSIIvok&feature=youtube_gdata

Don't one has a responsibility to tell the truth?

Don't one has to responsible to the Yik kam and Cho family Wck ancestors to not make them look like fool infront of other wcners ?

[FongSung]

Contradict to the recent stories made by people who doesn't know or even have never met my late sifu,
Attached is the evidence from many different sources, from the 1960 and 1970s , on Gm Cho Hung Choy. Who is a wing chuner of his era.





1. There is photo from new martial hero magazine showing the salutation of Cho family,
where one can read about him.

2. Gm Cho is a very scientific person and keep very details documentations. He doesn't have ipad as us today but he takes photos to keep records.

3. Gm Cho and myself appear in the Penang tournament booklet represent wing chun school. Two of my sihengs were competing. And My Sigung Cho On were visiting Guiding them. In fact, Sigung Cho On remind us , his grand students , on the yik kam SLT kuit . Which is the core of Cho family Yik kam Wck.

4. Gm Cho and myself were invited to many different Penang Tcma dinner, this badge is the from the Penang Seven Stars Praying mantis dinner.

5. When Wong Shuen Leong of YM lineage send his middle man to Penang wanting to arrange for a kong Sau with A Cho family member who Wong has issue with. Gm Cho Hung Choy was contacted because He is both a senior of cho family wing chun kuen in Penang Malaysia and one of the person who is known for many Kong Sau.






If my sifu still alive today, he is in his 90s. When he starts Wck in mid 1940, where are those people who is making up stories today playing know it all? When he is at his peak at 1960 and 1970, where are these stories makers today? Can they even shows their present at that era? Similar to the evidence from multiple sources I show it here?

I have no issue with others stories making, and never I like to interfere with other Cho family lineages on who want to claim what or tile .

but it is my resoinsibility to present the facts of my late sifu and what is in Cho family Yik Kam I have inherited to the wcners world wide.

1. Yes SLT salutation of Cho Family of course he was taught Cho Family Kung Fu.
2. Yes most Sifus are.
3. Good for you to support your school. Glad to hear you met GGM Cho Yin On for an afternoon. I see the stance in the photos are much deeper than in your videos more like I myself practise.
4. Excellent to support your school
5. Execellent.

I also am presenting the facts I have inherited from my Sifu the rest of the Cho Family.

I have issue with your kung fu you do as you like.
I do not know how or what you were taught and I am not that interested.

Out of interest how long did you learn from your sifu in penang and did you BaiSi? You are not obliged to answer just a curiosity.

[FongSung]

Hi Carlos,
I can tell you first hand, that i've seen sifu Ku Chi Wah version of Cho Ga wck through one of his most senior student, and even had the opportunity to touch hands with him and there was nothing there that impressed me.

When I met H Santo, he not only impressed me with his wck internal knowledge, he was able to do what he said he could do, and I was able to do it as well.

I don't know who has the most authentic version of Cho Ga wck since I was not there when Yik Kam passed it on. But I can definitely tell you who has the most effective. For all we know Yik Kam did not even know about the Emei wck connection, even though he was doing it. Because you got to remember the emei stuff was top secret back then, but now that everything is opening up, Hendrik has the opportunity to cross reference certain things like the snake engine.

That is great I am very happy for you, really. If it works for you thats what it is all about you take want works and evolve your kung fu "Forever Spring"!

The only people I can think of who are in or have to US are Randy Tay and YY Wu and I met neither so can not comment. I am also a poor student so you wouldn't be impressed with me either. But most senior student?

I have not made any claims on superiority of myself, my sifu, lineage or family. For me it is down to yourself, your own efforts, your understanding, your own practice to reach your potential. A teacher can only do so much and Wing Chun is not that complicated really is it. Actually the more you learn and train the simpler it should become is my humble opinion. The main activity imho should be hands on practical training and exchange.

Top secret ... a lot of things were

[Hendrik]

Out of interest how long did you learn from your sifu in penang and did you BaiSi? You are not obliged to answer just a curiosity.

I was a kyokushin Kai before started with Gm Cho Hung choy in March 1973. I train three to four night every week direct with Gm Cho Hung Choy since then.

I come to USA on 1980, I got a letter asked me to share my sifus' teaching in USA in 1980 as attached

There is non stop instruction from my sifu and communication via phone and mails from 1980 until my sifu passed away in 1984.

[Hendrik]

I was specially train in the YKSLT set with its full kuen kuit.

My area of expertise is in internal or YKSLT, the Qi, Jin, and engine and DNA or 拳種 功法reading. Thus, I inherit the skill of reading DNA, Jin, and engine of YKSLT teaching passed from my sifu to me.

My level of attainment in 1983 is as in this letter from Gm Cho Hung Choy.

[FongSung]

I was a kyokushin Kai before started with Gm Cho Hung choy in March 1973. I train three to four night every week direct with Gm Cho Hung Choy since then.

I come to USA on 1980, I got a letter asked me to share my sifus' teaching in USA in 1980 as attached

Great!
So you didnt baisi?

[Hendrik]

Similar to other senior of the Cho family Gm Cheung who kept record, photos , and letters, I can open up everything for the Wck historian researchers.


A great example of Gm Cheong writing on the old timers is as the following, where my sifu Cho Hung Choy
And my sigung Cho On were mention. One can always trace from multiple sources

由红船子弟正旦金（易金）再传给武生曹顺（大眼顺），曹顺再传给儿子曹德胜与沈震师父及师叔曹德文（曹安） ，曹雄才（曹朱）。而其他的师叔伯就不为所知了。

曹德胜传授于儿子曹钜全，曹钜全再传授于儿子

One can read the above writing and view many old time photos with Gm Cheong and his sifu Gm Sam Chan, in the Gm Cheong blog here. Gm Cheong is the most senior alive today in Cho family three.

http://operawingchun.blogspot.com/2009/06/blog-post.html





Paper cannot cover fire. Facts always is traceable. Claim needs to be back by facture evidence.

[FongSung]

Woodern dummy training evolve and grow after 1850. And those after 1850 doesn't practice internal six core elements and the seven bows as the core 1850. So that is reality.

If yik kam decendent shows a comprehensive woodern dummy set, you know that has to come from law lineage .

So H. Santo what are saying here Cho Yin On or Cho Cheun didnt have a comprehensive Wooden Man Set to pass on?

We have a 13 section 108 MYJ I assume yours is much shorter 6 section I would guess. So ours therefore much be from another source!
Are you saying anybody in the Cho Family who has a comprehensive myj set got it from the Law Family Snake Crane Wing Chun!!
My goodness what type of statement is this.?

[Hendrik]

Great!
So you didnt baisi?

If I am not Baisi, will my photo shows in the Penang martial art booklet as above? Will I be special train in the YKSLT and inherit the YKSLT internal details? Will my Si Mo wrote me this letter?

[FongSung]

Similar to other senior of the Cho family Gm Cheung who kept record, photos , and letters, I can open up everything for the Wck historian researchers.


A great example of Gm Cheong writing on the old timers is as the following, where my sifu Cho Hung Choy
And my sigung Cho On were mention. One can always trace from multiple sources

由红船子弟正旦金（易金）再传给武生曹顺（大眼顺），曹顺再传给儿子曹德胜与沈震师父及师叔曹德文（曹安） ，曹雄才（曹朱）。而其他的师叔伯就不为所知了。

曹德胜传授于儿子曹钜全，曹钜全再传授于儿子

One can read the above writing and view many old time photos with Gm Cheong and his sifu Gm Sam Chan, in the Gm Cheong blog here. Gm Cheong is the most senior alive today in Cho family three.

http://operawingchun.blogspot.com/2009/06/blog-post.html





Paper cannot cover fire. Facts always is traceable. Claim needs to be back by facture evidence.

Some people have nothing to prove.
Ha ha ha so much you don't know.
So much I can not say .... so therefore I wish you all the best and let you have the last word.

[Hendrik]

Now, after I am not shy to open some of my cards.
I expect others who makes claim to show their evidence too.

Similar to Gm Cheung above , old timers have records.
One cannot simply make claim on title and claim on art without showing evidence from our sifu .
That is just the traditional way.



IMHO, the coming new Wck era is not going to tolerate all kind of claim and stories without evidence to back up.

[Hendrik]

Some people have nothing to prove.

Ha ha ha so much you don't know.

So much I can not say .... so therefore I wish you all the best and let you have the last word.



1. Both Gm Cheung and myself walk the traditional path. We show what it is as it is. Not about proving anything but honestly present and back up the case .

It will be extremely suspicious when one makes all kind of claim try to post as upper hand but cannot show or back up by evidence.


Today, Yik kam SLT has spread in USA and Europe. It is a natural to have back every details with trackable evidence. No one can fool others . And real deal can be repeat effectively without alibi.



2. I have never claim I know everything. But present with evidence what I have inherited.



3.Your accusation on my Sifu on CLF in Penang is proven wrong by evidence.

My advise for you is speak only what you know, in Chinese traditional, one don't go spreading false accusatiion to the dead who cannot defend themself. That is extremely un respectable behavior.
Not to mention to practice that to a senior elderly in the same family like my late sifu.



4. I don't expect anything from you because I let the Wck historian to judge me 30 years from today.

When it comes to dealing with the future Wck researchers, my take is , one better 100% honest! otherwise , ones name will go down the tube once they find out ones lie or baseless claim

[Hendrik]

So H. Santo what are saying here Cho Yin On or Cho Cheun didnt have a comprehensive Wooden Man Set to pass on?

We have a 13 section 108 MYJ I assume yours is much shorter 6 section I would guess. So ours therefore much be from another source!


Are you saying anybody in the Cho Family who has a comprehensive myj set got it from the Law Family Snake Crane Wing Chun!!

My goodness what type of statement is this.?




Do your homework on Cho family wooden dummy, do your homework in wing chun kuen history on woodern dummy evolution. Show us a photo of Cho family practicing Woodern dummy in 1960s.


The worst thing many do these days is taking from Ipman Wck without giving credit and claim one has it all, un aware of one copy Ipman signature blindly. If one fall into this type of trap. Not one can save you. The Wck historians know who you are.

[deejaye72]

Do your homework on Cho family wooden dummy, do your homework in wing chun kuen history on woodern dummy evolution. Show us a photo of Cho family practicing Woodern dummy in 1960s.


The worst thing many do these days is taking from Ipman Wck without giving credit and claim one has it all, un aware of one copy Ipman signature blindly. If one fall into this type of trap. Not one can save you. The Wck historians know who you are.

why dont you post a video showing us the ipman wooden dummy signature?

[kung fu fighter]

The worst thing many do these days is taking from Ipman Wck without giving credit and claim one has it all, un aware of one copy Ipman signature blindly.


why dont you post a video showing us the ipman wooden dummy signature?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-apG4Pl_Fc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbEhtRGHf3U

[deejaye72]

the huen jum movement?

[deejaye72]

the huen jum movement?

hmm interesting!

[FongSung]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-apG4Pl_Fc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbEhtRGHf3U

Oh... So it is now from Ip Family not Law Family.... do make up your mind?

Of course not the full set a few section missing is all I'll say.

[Hendrik]

why dont you post a video showing us the ipman wooden dummy signature?

I leave it to Wck historian researchers,

Many wcners can read signatures of Ipman , yks ...etc.

[deejaye72]

I leave it to Wck historian researchers,

Many wcners can read signatures of Ipman , yks ...etc.

yeah i saw it.

[deejaye72]

yeah i saw it.

i'll give you one thing. i was always told it was an internal style when i was learning wing chun, a blend of hard and soft. i know from my research that started twenty years ago, that it's imho the internal aspects of the art that are missing from most people's training.

but, i still think your nut! nothing personal:D

[Daniel Fong]

Carlos, how can we trust what a liar says and what the evidence he shows. He can make up his OWN stories and show what he called evidence. All are not getting proved. The post on his email below completely shows this fake buddhist being a liar. He has a mission on wck and his agenda on his ykwc spreading what he said in US and Europe now, and later should be all over the world.


Sifu Wayne Yung posted recently in facebook:

For those(HSRC) who wear wck researcher robes, fake buddhists, and mouses in Martial Arts Community, any authorities assigning them to do their wck research in any means.
See how a liar said in his email point #3, co-work with SRC still very active in wck community
----------
Hendrik.
To MeRobert ChuJack Chang
Feb 17

Wayne,

1. Be able to make Happy is a great thing Robert and I will do.

2. Great that you met Sergio and have first hand understanding on him and the possibility for further program. My best wishes for you and him. I am sure there are alots of things you can teaches him on the history and culture of Wck. Also, you guys sure will come up with good videos for Wck history and SCWC to share with the world.

3. I have made my decision to wash my hand on Wck and become a full time Buddhist since my mission in Wck is completed. That is what I like to do here on with lots of good memories in Wck.

Best regards
Hendrik

Sent from my iPad

[pazman]

Tell me more about the snake engine.
8409

[VT Andy]

Carlos, how can we trust what a liar says and what the evidence he shows. He can make up his OWN stories and show what he called evidence. All are not getting proved. The post on his email below completely shows this fake buddhist being a liar. He has a mission on wck and his agenda on his ykwc spreading what he said in US and Europe now, and later should be all over the world.


Sifu Wayne Yung posted recently in facebook:

For those(HSRC) who wear wck researcher robes, fake buddhists, and mouses in Martial Arts Community, any authorities assigning them to do their wck research in any means.
See how a liar said in his email point #3, co-work with SRC still very active in wck community
----------
Hendrik.
To MeRobert ChuJack Chang
Feb 17

Wayne,

1. Be able to make Happy is a great thing Robert and I will do.

2. Great that you met Sergio and have first hand understanding on him and the possibility for further program. My best wishes for you and him. I am sure there are alots of things you can teaches him on the history and culture of Wck. Also, you guys sure will come up with good videos for Wck history and SCWC to share with the world.

3. I have made my decision to wash my hand on Wck and become a full time Buddhist since my mission in Wck is completed. That is what I like to do here on with lots of good memories in Wck.

Best regards
Hendrik

Sent from my iPad

Hendrik word as good as nothing. Here you show he is in fact untrustworthy and liar too always speaks in broad strokes try to speak for others and always cut down others. Model behavior? He says he washed his hands from Wing Chun but obviously not true he still posts 100x daily in Wing Chun forum. If his Wing Chun is done then it is dead horse he keeps beating everyday. What kind of Buddhist is addicted to online world spilling his guts to strangers hoping he will be remembered in 30 years as some great sage? That is all 100% ego and grandeur. Does he represent his Sifu teachings well or really promoting himself? Nothing special about Hendrik and the world can see it. He talk so much shows he knows very little.


BaiSee, Loyalty, MoDak, Ethics, Morality... Family rules ....

In Traditional Kung Fu families, BaiSee is a very important to a practitioner to become a disciple of a family. In his whole life, only the BaisSee sifu is his exclusive sifu for his whole life. He need loyalty to the family and pay hard to learn the complete system of the family, then carry forward to the next generation. The length will be last for his rest of the whole life. As a sifu, he will pass the whole system to the disciple. Besides learning the skills, disciples also need to learn what a MoDak, Martial Arts ethics & morality are. That's the important pats of the traditional kung fu culture. Individual families they have their individual cultures based on their yearly development. Being disciples need to learn the culture of what their family as well.

Today, kung fu practitioners should be educated what the traditional kung fu culture is. What they need to follow, as they learn the arts. However, some people not paying too much effort on learning, and try to make a discipleship relation to take advantages from the families. Really, how much they understand the arts of the families they make baisee to a sifu there, and become just a collector only.

Some of them wearing a research robe trying to dig something out from some low profile families, and represent them bringing them out to the public. How much do they know why the lineage keeping low profile, not opening up ? Does it intrude the privacy of individual lineages ? Really, the term "Research", what really means ? In What ways ? Doing research means they can do whatever they like to explore IN ANY MEANS to get information IMPROPERLY? Will it hurt those lineages and destroying the individual lineage duties ? For what ? Then makes their own interpretation to show to the public. For their individual benefits or any other HIDDEN means ? It makes no difference like stealing in a improper way. Those people they are not the real researchers, what they behave just like what called MuLamLoShe( A mouse in Martial Arts Community).

Can this type of behaviours exist on the today martial arts researchers ? What the information they get in improper ways, are they good to the martial arts community ?

Finally, RCHS, what type of Chinese characters being used in the Ancient China? When the Simplied characters introduced today commonly used in China? Are there any SI units introduced in 19th century?

[VT Andy]

Do your homework on Cho family wooden dummy, do your homework in wing chun kuen history on woodern dummy evolution. Show us a photo of Cho family practicing Woodern dummy in 1960s.


The worst thing many do these days is taking from Ipman Wck without giving credit and claim one has it all, un aware of one copy Ipman signature blindly. If one fall into this type of trap. Not one can save you. The Wck historians know who you are.


Oh... So it is now from Ip Family not Law Family.... do make up your mind?

Of course not the full set a few section missing is all I'll say. Mouse caught in mouse trap.

[Paddington]

[said stuff}


[copied and pasted some things]


[engaged in childish banter]


[repeated and copied what others said]

Until you guys actually counter Hendrik's theories on a point by point basis or even provide a cogent written piece on the type of power generation your lineage engages in, your constant attacks on Hendrik come across as nothing more than childish and ill informed remarks.

[deejaye72]

Until you guys actually counter Hendrik's theories on a point by point basis or even provide a cogent written piece on the type of power generation your lineage engages in, your constant attacks on Hendrik come across as nothing more than childish and ill informed remarks.

1. actually he is the one that has to show the proof of his power generation! he is the one making the claim it is different then what everyone else is doing.

2. the only proof he has shown is kuen kiut. kuen kiut that he is connecting the dots, and endless videos of theory. anyone of us on here can scribble wing chun theory on a notepad.
3. he needs to demostrate his power generation on a video, or have one of his students demonstrate. the two videos that were his proof were nothing special that i havent been taught, or seen.

[deejaye72]

1. actually he is the one that has to show the proof of his power generation! he is the one making the claim it is different then what everyone else is doing.

2. the only proof he has shown is kuen kiut. kuen kiut that he is connecting the dots, and endless videos of theory. anyone of us on here can scribble wing chun theory on a notepad.
3. he needs to demostrate his power generation on a video, or have one of his students demonstrate. the two videos that were his proof were nothing special that i havent been taught, or seen.

oh to add to this, maybe he can break it down with a student, and explain it step by step. it might easier for us all to grasp it.

[pazman]

Until you guys actually counter Hendrik's theories on a point by point basis or even provide a cogent written piece on the type of power generation your lineage engages in, your constant attacks on Hendrik come across as nothing more than childish and ill informed remarks.

I wasn't attacking Hendrik, I was just insinuating Wang Chung is like two men in a deep embrace.

8410

[deejaye72]

I wasn't attacking Hendrik, I was just insinuating Wang Chung is like two men in a deep embrace.

8410

**** thats not right!! yuck!!! whats wrong with you!

[pazman]

**** thats not right!! yuck!!! whats wrong with you!

You like it.

[Paddington]

I see little point challenging your substantive points when your child like banter with respects to h o m o sexuality and the evident h o m o phobia, reinforces my statement that you are coming across as child like with taunts straight from the playground.

Regardless, you can foster a powerful critique of Hendrik's ideas and theory by his own terms of reference. There are contradictions there and misunderstandings of a more 'western medical' point of view, with respects to what he has said. Incidentally, I agree with some of what Hendrik says and suggests but I place it outside of debates on 'origins' and lineages. Nearly everything he has said I have encountered before through conversations with and amongst the upper echelons of the VTAA in HK.

[zuti car]

oh to add to this, maybe he can break it down with a student, and explain it step by step. it might easier for us all to grasp it.

And reveal the secret ? I would love to see that. Basically , Hendrik , like so many others believes he has something special that others don't , this is a common thing in wing chun and it has been seen so many times (twc, hfy, hkb, ...) . It is symptomatic that most of the people who believe in "secretes" , chi powers ect , are not able to do 10 push ups or hit the heavy bag without hurting them self , they can talk endlessly about theories but when they have to actually show something than we have things like :"you have reach certain level to understand it " or other excuses , everything but real demonstration which would support their theories .

[Hendrik]

And reveal the secret ? I would love to see that. Basically , Hendrik , like so many others believes he has something special that others don't , this is a common thing in wing chun and it has been seen so many times (twc, hfy, hkb, ...) . It is symptomatic that most of the people who believe in "secretes" , chi powers ect , are not able to do 10 push ups or hit the heavy bag without hurting them self , they can talk endlessly about theories but when they have to actually show something than we have things like :"you have reach certain level to understand it " or other excuses , everything but real demonstration which would support their theories .


I never think I have anything special.

I jus present a trace to the Wck mother art to every older Wck lineages sets .


Never I present anything as secret.

And if one have not develop to the level of the handling of Qi or bio chemical bio electrical , and the force flow in the body, then one don't know.

[Paddington]

Good level headed reply Paddington.

I see an earlier form of myself in them David and it was not until I learnt to look at myself more critically, with a view to adjusting my attitude, that people from this forum community began to help me improve my kung fu via sharing private videos and conversations over email and elsewhere. I liked Hendrik's approach to my boisterousness back then and my want to roll with him aggressively; he showed me compassion and helped me recover from some injuries .

[Hendrik]

I see an earlier form of myself in them David and it was not until I learnt to look at myself more critically, with a view to adjusting my attitude, that people from this forum community began to help me improve my kung fu via sharing private videos and conversations over email and elsewhere. I liked Hendrik's approach to my boisterousness back then and my want to roll with him aggressively; he showed me compassion and helped me recover from some injuries .



We all are learnig continuously, no one want to be bad , but we do the best we can .

[zuti car]

I never think I have anything special.

I jus present a trace to the Wck mother art to every older Wck lineages sets .


Never I present anything as secret.

And if one have not develop to the level of the handling of Qi or bio chemical bio electrical , and the force flow in the body, then one don't know.

That is what I've said, you believe , truly believe in all that stuff you are preaching . Now look at your post again and try to realize what you have said, YOU present some MOTHER ART , and no one else have any knowledge about it , nor the skill to understand it . Sounds just like a cult doctrine .
About what you call qi as biochemical and bioelectrical phenomena is very well known and has no connection to any kind of kung fu what so ever . These kind of phenomena can be found in Indian and buddhist meditation and it is conscious control of endocrine system through series of breathing techniques and mental concentration in order to increase production of endorphins and other hormones . This is a form of chemical addiction similar to form other forms of chemical dependency like addiction to drugs .

[Hendrik]

That is what I've said, you believe , truly believe in all that stuff you are preaching . Now look at your post again and try to realize what you have said, YOU present some MOTHER ART , and no one else have any knowledge about it , nor the skill to understand it . Sounds just like a cult doctrine .


About what you call qi as biochemical and bioelectrical phenomena is very well known and has no connection to any kind of kung fu what so ever .

These kind of phenomena can be found in Indian and buddhist meditation and it is conscious control of endocrine system through series of breathing techniques and mental concentration in order to increase production of endorphins and other hormones .

This is a form of chemical addiction similar to form other forms of chemical dependency like addiction to drugs .


1.

I don't believe. It is not a believe but a development of reality.

I describe what is developed in my body using SNT as it is. And support short strike art as describe as Wck.
It is repeatable and able to develop in any humans body.


It is a mother art because it is the mechanism used to design SNT as it, nothing is added. But evoke it.

It is a simple facts issue, is it or is it not by design.

Like it or not, aware of it or not, it is within the Wck sets.

What I am doing is just sharing how to use a chain saw in the chain saw way per its design.




2.
As for the speculation in Qi you have made. Clearly you think but you don't know what it is.

It is a practice to let the body balance itself ,instead of your theory above.


3.
It is jus what it is by design. If one doesn't investigate what it is speculate , one will never know what it is.

[HybridWarrior]

Never I present anything as secret.


Hendrik, please clarify...are you posting secrets or not? About a week ago you posted this in a new thread that you started:




04-25-2014, 11:56 PM
Are there secrets in ancient Wck?

Is feet bow an ancient Chinese martial art secret?

Yes!

Are there secret in ancient Chinese martial art such as Wck practice?

Yes. Definitely.

[Paddington]

[...] About what you call qi as biochemical and bioelectrical phenomena is very well known and has no connection to any kind of kung fu what so ever . These kind of phenomena can be found in Indian and buddhist meditation and it is conscious control of endocrine system through series of breathing techniques and mental concentration in order to increase production of endorphins and other hormones . This is a form of chemical addiction similar to form other forms of chemical dependency like addiction to drugs .

I am not sure you are describing the entire story here and your thinking seems a little disjointed. For example, in terms of the 'bioelectrical' some see the central nervous system and the body's signalling system as playing a large part. SLT first section when performed very, very slowly really emphasizes this, in the sense of stimulating a constant state of bioelectric flow through the body's signalling system when you approach the fine line between moving and not moving.

[zuti car]

...and ....you repeating your self again, like a broken record . You can believe in anything you like , but your believe will never become reality for others just because you think it is . About your insisting that it is impossible to know something if you do not try it you are wrong . Do I have to "practice" Heroin addiction to know it will kill me at the end , because you said if you do not try , you cannot know .Do I have shoot someone to know that bullet will kill him? What you call balance science call it chemically induced euphoria , funny thing , you will be happier ,and have that "balanced" feeling , but that does not change its real nature . Anyway , there are a lot ways to prove you wrong , but i do not have time nor will to do that , you set your mind to a single frequency and now you are capable to hear or understand anything but your self . I will not comment of your stuff any more , there is no point .

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, please clarify...are you posting secrets or not? About a week ago you posted this in a new thread that you started:

It is a secret kept for some,

but not a secret for me.

[Hendrik]

...and ....you repeating your self again, like a broken record . You can believe in anything you like , but your believe will never become reality for others just because you think it is . About your insisting that it is impossible to know something if you do not try it you are wrong . Do I have to "practice" Heroin addiction to know it will kill me at the end , because you said if you do not try , you cannot know .Do I have shoot someone to know that bullet will kill him? What you call balance science call it chemically induced euphoria , funny thing , you will be happier ,and have that "balanced" feeling , but that does not change its real nature . Anyway , there are a lot ways to prove you wrong , but i do not have time nor will to do that , you set your mind to a single frequency and now you are capable to hear or understand anything but your self . I will not comment of your stuff any more , there is no point .



What it is got to do with believe when what I present is as the following picture. I just share one needs to use a hammer the hammer way.

[zuti car]

I am not sure you are describing the entire story here and your thinking seems a little disjointed. For example, in terms of the 'bioelectrical' some see the central nervous system and the body's signalling system as playing a large part. SLT first section when performed very, very slowly really emphasizes this, in the sense of stimulating a constant state of bioelectric flow through the body's signalling system when you approach the fine line between moving and not moving.

A body without constant bioelectrial flow in a sense you talking about is dead body . Even in total absence of movement , electrical signals in healthy body are in a state of constant flow .

[Paddington]

A body without constant bioelectrial flow in a sense you talking about is dead body . Even in total absence of movement , electrical signals in healthy body are in a state of constant flow .

The potential difference of such flow changes and you can increase it through SLT practice.

[kentchang]

Isn't it possible that the Yik and Cho families don't mention a Emei connection because they are unaware of it? What if you had a German ancestor 4 generations ago? If your grandfather never mentioned it and was unaware of it does that make it untrue?

See above. I don't know much at all about your lineage. Does it have the legend of Ng Mui and the fight between a Snake and a Crane?

So what? Ng Wu wasn't Hendrik's teacher. From what he has written it doesn't seem that Hendrik is practicing the Cho family Wing Chun as a whole. He is from a different branch of the family.

According to somebody's grandfather, anything is possible in his book. The grandfather walked to school singing. "Michael Jackson's parents must be white," the grandfather said. "That's the reason why Michael also has three white kids."

Yes, Yik Kam'SLT must be the mother of all WCK.
Yes, even though there's no Wooden Dummy in Yik Kam's school, Yik Kam's SLT is still the most original WCK.
Yes, Yik Kam's SLT did come from Ermei 12 Zheung, even Yik Kam himself had zero knowledge of it.
Yes, you can't practice WCK correctly if you don't know the Ermei 12 Zheung.
Yes, you don't know what are you talking about if don't fellow or listen to Hendrik the successor of Yik Kam's lineage.
Yes, Hendrik's knowledge of Ermei 12 Zheung is so rich. When he requested to baisee in the Facebook, It's just his way of having fun!

[kentchang]

Obviously Hendrik's ego is not going to accept these facts.


Originally Posted by FongSung

did Cho Hong Choi in fact he was quite famous in Penang for his CLF. ....

Yes, Cho Hung Choi did go to China to find a wife but he didn't learn any Kung Fu from Cho Chuen this is confirmed by the Todai and son of Cho Chuen in China.


I do not mean to attack anyone I just stating the facts as I know them from the Cho Family inheritors.

Carlos Kennerley

Make your voice heard
1) Only to find a wife, Cho Hung Choi (Hendrik's teacher) did not learn "Ermei 12 Zheung" or continue to study Yik Kam's SLT from the original source in China. -- "Yes, Cho Hung Choi did go to China to find a wife but he didn't learn any Kung Fu from Cho Chuen."

2) Fact, not Hendrik's fantasy. --"this is confirmed by the Todai and son of Cho Chuen in China."

[kentchang]

i feel bad for sifu wayne yung. the poor guy doesnt know who to trust!

People trained and were hit in the face with punches to get to know WCK, and now we've got these knuckleheads talking on YouTube, telling us if you don't know the Ermei 12 Zheung, you are not doing WCK.

Can you trust these knuckleheads?


Some of them wearing a research robe trying to dig something out from some low profile families, and represent them bringing them out to the public. How much do they know why the lineage keeping low profile, not opening up ? Does it intrude the privacy of individual lineages ? Really, the term "Research", what really means ? In What ways ? Doing research means they can do whatever they like to explore IN ANY MEANS to get information IMPROPERLY? Will it hurt those lineages and destroying the individual lineage duties ? For what ? Then makes their own interpretation to show to the public. For their individual benefits or any other HIDDEN means ? It makes no difference like stealing in a improper way. Those people they are not the real researchers, what they behave just like what called MuLamLoShe( A mouse in Martial Arts Community).

Can this type of behaviours exist on the today martial arts researchers ? What the information they get in improper ways, are they good to the martial arts community ?

[zuti car]

The potential difference of such flow changes and you can increase it through SLT practice.

It would be good to consult some medical literature , western medical literature, not Chinese .There is nothing more I can or will say on this subject .

[Paddington]

It would be good to consult some medical literature , western medical literature, not Chinese [...]

That is precisely what I have been doing.