Double Wrists Control

[YouKnowWho]

What will you do if your opponent just moves in and uses his

- left hand to grab on your right wrist from outside in (this can prevent your from punching him with your right arm),
- right hand to grab on your left wrist from outside in (this can prevent your from punching him with your left arm),
- leading leg to jam your leading leg (this can prevent your from kicking him with your leading leg)?

When this happens to you, you want to break away his grips, because you want to rotate your arms to against his thumb instead of his 4 fingers, your

- right arm can only rotate counter-clockwise,
- left arm can only rotate clockwise,

When you do that, your "front door" will completely open for his attack. This is a very aggressive strategy. Your opponent just moves in and takes away your striking ability (right punch, left punch, leading leg kick) and force you to play his grappling game no matter you like it or not. What will be your reaction?

[madhusudan]

headbutt or sack shot

[Faux Newbie]

headbutt or sack shot

I would think these two would work better if their grip is inside out. Outside in, and they can slightly pivot and cut off both with some leverage on the hands. I'd feel safer kicking for the lead leg in this instance, if I kicked.

To the question in general, I think I'd use footwork to alter the arrangement, seeking greater control on the hand that is on the side I was on. Just off the cuff, here.

[Faux Newbie]

this only deals with single wrist control, but the idea is applicable to most situations.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM

Seems legit.

[-N-]

What will you do if your opponent just moves in and uses his

- left hand to grab on your right wrist from outside in (this can prevent your from punching him with your right arm),
- right hand to grab on your left wrist from outside in (this can prevent your from punching him with your left arm),
- leading leg to jam your leading leg (this can prevent your from kicking him with your leading leg)?

When this happens to you, you want to break away his grips, because you want to rotate your arms to against his thumb instead of his 4 fingers, your

- right arm can only rotate counter-clockwise,
- left arm can only rotate clockwise,

When you do that, your "front door" will completely open for his attack. This is a very aggressive strategy. Your opponent just moves in and takes away your striking ability (right punch, left punch, leading leg kick) and force you to play his grappling game no matter you like it or not. What will be your reaction?

Lots of options.

If the leg is jammed shin to shin, you can trap and lever his ankle/shin/knee while going in with head butt or body/shoulder strike.

If right leg forward, do a switch up footwork so left leg is behind his right, push forward with left arm, pull back with right arm so now he is turned with leg trapped for takedown. Crash into him while you have him turned and trapped.

If arms are grabbed down, rotate both arms at the same time and jam forward and up through the center to his face like double forward uppercut or upsidedown straight punch (the Praying Mantis version of uppercut).

If arms are grabbed up, rotate both arms and jam forward and down toward his lower midsection, and headbutt.

Turn to one side or the other and leg sweep/lift the lead leg.

Pull him forward to weight his lead leg, lock and lever his lead leg, pull one arm forward, reach under his straight arm and grab his elbow with your other hand, pull diagonal, up, and back to throw.

[YouKnowWho]

The "head butt" is always 2 edges sword. You can do that to your opponent. Your opponent can do that to you too.

[-N-]

Be the firstest with the mostest.

[GeneChing]

As I've mentioned before, I lead psychiatric intervention teams at events like concerts and street festivals (see Shaolin Trips Ep 1 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=469) if you didn't already know this). Part of my job is to present in-services to medical and security responders. It's basic self defense methods for people who don't practice martial arts - simple skills, mostly break-and-run methods - extracted and modified from various programs used in emergency medicine, enforcement and corrections. I almost always begin with methods to break a wrist grab. It's the easiest one, and it demonstrates how by nullifying the thumb, most grabs can be broken. I've dealt with all sorts of assaults in the field but no one has ever grabbed my wrist. Not ever. I really wish someone would because I have dozens of well-practiced counters at my fingertips. But no, it's primarily an academic pursuit. That being said, I still teach these, because it's a good stepping stone in learning more useful practical techniques. There's a pedagogical logic to beginning with wrist grabs. However, in my experience, they just don't happen in the real world.

The leg jam is a totally different issue. If someone jams your leg, they have some fighting knowledge as it's not a natural emotional response to a street fight. With a trained fighter, everything changes.

[YouKnowWho]

I almost always begin with methods to break a wrist grab.
To break away your opponent's grip is not that hard as long as you rotate your arm into the right direction. The problem is when you are trying to "break a wrist grab", your opponent already lets go his grips and moves in for clinch. You will always be one step behind him. IMO, that's the advantage of wrist control. It can give you that 1/4 second advantage.

In the following clip, you can see that the transition from wrist grip into under hook is smooth and fast. The wrist grip is not what your opponent wants but the clinch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTMuo6E3jVA

[-N-]

To break away your opponent's grip is not that hard as long as you rotate your arm into the right direction. The problem is when you are trying to "break a wrist grab", your opponent already lets go his grips and moves in for clinch. You will always be one step behind him. IMO, that's the advantage of wrist control. It can give you that 1/4 second advantage.

Only if you waste time trying to break the grab.

Praying Mantis says if you grab the guy, you hit with the other hand. And if he grabs you, you hit with the other hand.

Whether you grab him or he grabs you, at the initial grab, you both are at a balance point.

So who will first takes advantage of the momentary control?

If you want to talk striker/grappler dichotomy, then one guy tries to transition to underhook and the other guy tries to go for face punch.

If you have one hand already grabbing, are you still going to use "wedge arms"?

But it really comes down to who will take advantage of the opening first.

[Dragonzbane76]

A technique I use a lot. (wrist grab) has many great advantages, you have semi control of an arm for one, which takes a weapon away from you opponent. You can feel if they are moving towards you, and or you can pull them.

[YouKnowWho]

If you want to talk striker/grappler dichotomy, then one guy tries to transition to underhook and the other guy tries to go for face punch.

If you have one hand already grabbing, are you still going to use "wedge arms"?
In my personal experience (our experience may be different), the striking won't be effective in the clinching range. I had a fight in north Shenyang train station in China. I got my opponent into a head lock, he attacked my groin. I took him down on the concrete. 3 policemen came and that was the end of that fight.

The wedge arm is a path to the clinch. A wrist grabbing is also a path to the clinch.

[-N-]

In my personal experience (our experience may be different), the striking won't be effective in the clinching range. I had a fight in north Shenyang train station in China. I got my opponent into a head lock, he attacked my groin. I took him down on the concrete. 3 policemen came and that was the end of that fight.

Makes sense.


The wedge arm is a path to the clinch. A wrist grabbing is also a path to the clinch.

If the person wants to strike, they need to do that before the other guy gets too far along the path to clinch.

[YouKnowWho]

Just made some clips in my yesterday Sunday class.

Double wrists control:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thoUoByrfME

[YouKnowWho]

Double wrists control slant cut:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBdKcEkMVh4

[mawali]

While working at a local VAMC, a colleague of mine presented a series of Conflict Intervention workshops, which are seemingly easy to engage in but they were essential minimal control technique to stop. or at least hold the opponent (the out of control mental patient/subject/) until other nursing professionals got there. Some appear to be similar in design to aikido. It depends on the skill level of the presenter and his previous background. Many are skilled only at the presentation level of the workshop and the few who have a MA background (like myself) find it simple enough to incorporate into, and teach to those who would otherwise be MA challenged. Interestingly, there match with real world techniques of control for Executive?Dignitary Protection (EP) and PSD protocols!