Three level of Wck understanding

[Hendrik]

Similar to knowing noodle, there are three level of Wck understanding.





Noodle, can be Chinese noodle, Japanese noodle , Italian noodle, Korean noodle.


The first level is
Looking at the photo of these and ague the heck out of what it is or what one think it is. In fact never taste anyone them or just taste one of them. The rest in speculations.

Ei. Taiji is the same with emei. White crane is the same with wing chun.....etc.





The second level is
Tasted all of them and know what are them and thier differences.

Ei. Have develop skill both in taiji and emei white crane and wing chun to know they are infact different.




The third level is the cook level who knows how to cook them all and knowing the exact details.

Ei. Have develop advance skill knowing the DNA of the art and be able to describe the differences of each individual art according to the arts seven bows and six core elements signatures.



It is just this simple, but if one stuck in level one and keep wanting to argue as level three, it will be very frustrated. One simply cannot see beyond ones attainment level. But many don't even know these three level exist. But thinking everything is the same, looking at photos will know everything.


Similar to the cook who can cook different noodle , unless one is there . Pretending or arguing is just a waste of the time. At the end of the day, when the world got educated to the cook level. What is the facts is clear.

[Hendrik]

I cannot in all honesty say that I know the inner workings of Ermei Shier Zhuang as I've never studied it, but I see nothing that is vastly different than any other system of "Qigong" that I have experience in.



There are nine level in emei 12 zhuang and ancient internal development, how many level have you attain to put yourself in a cook position?


Cho family yik kam siu Lin tau clearly record four level out of nine.
Unless one is there atleast at level three, how can now know what is going on?

I am not trying to put anyone down. I just think most of us are just naive to think we know what we have no idea , me included.


The logic is simply Describe which level one attain otherwise it is day dream, looking at photo and thinking one is a cook


I am not trying to convince anyone here. I just describe what is a reality. You don't need to take my words

[Hendrik]

Read my post again I wasn't referring to having experience in Emei Shier Zhuang, but other methods of Qigong. Are you implying that I don't have understanding of Qigong simply because I don't study Emei Qigong? Qigong is pretty much the same theory wise, whether it be Nei Gong or Wai Gong. Movement and philosophy wise it's another story. Unless it can make you fly it isn't anything unique and nothing I haven't already been exposed to.


Disregards of which style, Ancient Chinese internal art has nine level.

Not a theory but attainment. One enter into different states.

Unless one attain the level one simply doesn't know what it is.

I also have to learn my lesson in the hard way.







From my understanding, Fu Wei Zhong stated that only a few of the 12 have been taught to the public to date. How did Cho Family get four? Why only four, seems incomplete to me. I don't see anything uniquely different happening with those movements in Emei Shier Zhuang as compared to the same movements in Zhineng Qigong, Bai He Xiao Yue Gong or Taijiquan.


The person who created SLT of what yik kam practice in 1848 clearly shown four level .

Again, unless one attain it one doesn't know.





Can you tell me what theory Emei Shier Zhuang is based on? Wu Xing, Bagua etc. How does it's body structure compare to WC body structure? Does it apply physically or metaphysically?


See the attach emei 12 zhuang platform .


Now that you cherry picked my post, would you care to address the issues I pointed out and answer all my questions?



I don't cherry pick at your post, in fact I don't expect anyone to agree with me, when I say

Toto this is not Kansas City anymore

[Hendrik]

This is emei 12 zhuang platform it is not the so called qigong the modern people says , it is beyond what people think.

It is a path way a process based on Chinese daoist process to enter Buddhism samadhi . There are nine level of the development.

At level six one turn into "light". Yes, mind and body fuse and one get into a state of silence.


The so called Qi and the advance micro obit practice which one out of thousand get there but lots of talk are just beginning level stuffs.

In yk slt kuit. It is just the fifth kuit .


Y5會合丹田督脈降。
Union in the Dan tian , Du medirian sink.



So, Toto, we are not in Kansas anymore.

Unless one know where one stand , one really don't know where one is.


Words doesn't count , can one enter into the level at will? If not one simple don't know

[Hendrik]

SLT is very deep.

Simple , sophisticated , but elegance. It is beyond what 99% of people think. For the past 100 years only a hand full see its beauty.

Do I try to promote my lineage or myself?

Nope. I just trying to tell the world, go back to 1848 version and claim your Wck inheritance. Once one enter the door one never turn back


Now we bring this ancient technology to MIT. Where high tech belongs to
http://mitqigong.blogspot.com

[Hendrik]

As I stated movement & philosophy wise it's another story. So it's "Spiritual Qigong". How does one suggest that "Spiritual Qigong" is more effective than "Martial Qigong" in a Martial Art? As far as I am aware the only styles to come even close to merging "Martial & Spiritual" is Taijiquan and Bagua Zhang.

Did I ever say spiritual at all?

Nope.






And here is my point, it is only found in YKWC SNT. No other branch contains it.


There will be no answer can satisfy you.






Thank you for the diagram and explanation, this gives me a little more insight into Emei Shier Zhuang, but you still haven't fully addressed the 6 issues I pointed out.


Reality is not according to what you or I think . Or how many point you or I address.
It is like falling Into sleep. Just sleep if one knows how to sleep.



At no time have I suggested that Emei Shier Zhuang is not a part of YKWC. I believe that it is. I made the statement that it is not original or integral to the development and creation of all WC collectively.
IMO a method of "Martial" qigong is the "Engine" of WC not "Spiritual" qigong. Is Emei Shier Zhuang martial in nature? If so I would certainly like to see it applied.


I careless on original or not . I careless on all kind of philosophy or qigong talk.

The bottom line is, if the snt set cannot develop what it suppose to develop , it is a useless.

[Firehawk4]

Hendrik did you study the Emie Zhuang From this Emie Sifu or from that book you have mentioned about Emie Zhuang ? If it is as people say you cant learn Martial Arts or Kung fu from a book how can you learn the Emie Zhuang from a book ?

[Hendrik]

Let's cut out all this mystical mumbo-jumbo talk, I don't believe in it.

Prove to me that Ermei Shier Zhuang is more powerful than simple kinesiology.



You are free to believe as you like . As I have mentioned above, there will be no answer can satisfy you.

[deejaye72]

I'm sorry you feel that way but in all honesty you have yet to provide me with an actual answer. I appreciate your time. I think at this point it's best to agree to disagree.

he cant answer your question cause he only trained with his sifu for 3 years hahaha. funny how he avoids answers whe he is asked direct questions. like a charlatan does.

[deejaye72]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1266740]I cannot in all honesty say that I know the inner workings of Ermei Shier Zhuang as I've never studied it, but I see nothing that is vastly different than any other system of "Qigong" that I have experience in.



There are nine level in emei 12 zhuang and ancient internal development, how many level have you attain to put yourself in a cook position?


Cho family yik kam siu Lin tau clearly record four level out of nine.
Unless one is there atleast at level three, how can now know what is going on?

I am not trying to put anyone down. I just think most of us are just naive to think we know what we have no idea , me included.

nine levels! i'm sorry for being rude gentleman. i dont have a problem saying what everyone is thinking , and the moderator can kick me off this tread if he wants, that is the biggest load of pie in the sky horse sh!t i have ever heard in my life. im falling out of my chair lmao hahahaha

[FongSung]

4. This is because Cho Family has Cailifo influence and this is hard to look past even with documentation from a long time ago. Cailifo has undoubtedly altered the expression of the system. If it was not a part of the system only the Xiao Lian Tou form would exist. The ancestors of Cho Family obviously thought that they were lacking in material and added to the sysytem, to me this suggests that not all the answers could be found within the Xiao Lian Tou form that they possessed.



Cho Dak Sing was taught directly by Zheng Dan Kam his first Martial Art was Siu Lien Tau (Wing Chun). His father Cho Shun was one of the last batch of disciples of Chan Huang, founder of CLF.

The family indoor SLT has not changed public SLT for demostration has. The CLF was modified with WC priciple by CDS and ZDK.

[tc101]

Similar to knowing noodle, there are three level of Wck understanding.





Noodle, can be Chinese noodle, Japanese noodle , Italian noodle, Korean noodle.


The first level is
Looking at the photo of these and ague the heck out of what it is or what one think it is. In fact never taste anyone them or just taste one of them. The rest in speculations.

Ei. Taiji is the same with emei. White crane is the same with wing chun.....etc.





The second level is
Tasted all of them and know what are them and thier differences.

Ei. Have develop skill both in taiji and emei white crane and wing chun to know they are infact different.




The third level is the cook level who knows how to cook them all and knowing the exact details.

Ei. Have develop advance skill knowing the DNA of the art and be able to describe the differences of each individual art according to the arts seven bows and six core elements signatures.



It is just this simple, but if one stuck in level one and keep wanting to argue as level three, it will be very frustrated. One simply cannot see beyond ones attainment level. But many don't even know these three level exist. But thinking everything is the same, looking at photos will know everything.


Similar to the cook who can cook different noodle , unless one is there . Pretending or arguing is just a waste of the time. At the end of the day, when the world got educated to the cook level. What is the facts is clear.

You are the master of metaphor. You over complicate the simplest of things. You over complicate them because you do not understand how simple they are.

Wing chun is not like a noodle. It is a physical skill. It's that simple. A skill. You do not need any metaphors to understand what wing chun is or anything else in wing chun. Just look at them as they really are.

A physical skill has to be performed it cannot be shown any other way and it cannot be taught any other way. If a person does not have the skill then he cannot really know the skills. If you cannot do it that proves you do not know it.

[Hendrik]

You are the master of metaphor. You over complicate the simplest of things. You over complicate them because you do not understand how simple they are.

Wing chun is not like a noodle. It is a physical skill. It's that simple. A skill. You do not need any metaphors to understand what wing chun is or anything else in wing chun. Just look at them as they really are.

A physical skill has to be performed it cannot be shown any other way and it cannot be taught any other way. If a person does not have the skill then he cannot really know the skills. If you cannot do it that proves you do not know it.

If people think like you there will have no iPhone or 777 air bus in this world

[Hendrik]

Thank you for your reply and elaboration. This only strengthens my argument that there is no Emei Shier Zhuang infused within Cho Family Wing Chun, otherwise it would have carried over into the Choy Lay Fut material.

Beside speculation, how can you know without examine the facts?

What is Wck a short strike art got to do with CLF which is long strike art using a totally different engine?

[Hendrik]

From the Long comes the Short. This you obviously do not comprehend, without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion. You understand nothing of kinesiology.

Now how about you address FongSung's reply about there being no mention of Emei in any of the Cho Family documentation?



1. Short and long, please do your home work in ancient Chinese martial art type. You sure are free to invent your own martial art, but please not get mix up between what you think and what it is.

The following is from Ming dynasty general Ji book.

古今拳家，宋太祖有三十二勢長拳，又有六步拳，猴拳，化拳。各勢各有所稱，而實大同小異。 至今之溫家七十二行拳，三十六合鎖，二十四棄探馬，入閃番，十二 短， 此亦善之善者也。 呂紅八下雖剛，未及綿張短打。山東李半天之腿，鷹爪王之拿，千跌張之跌，張伯敬之打，少林寺之棍與青田棍法 相兼，楊氏鎗法，與巴子拳棍 ，皆今之有名者。

Different arts art are not the same.


2. Anyone are free to have their opinion.

[deejaye72]

1. Short and long, please do your home work in ancient Chinese martial art type. You sure are free to invent your own martial art, but please not get mix up between what you think and what it is.

The following is from Ming dynasty general Ji book.

古今拳家，宋太祖有三十二勢長拳，又有六步拳，猴拳，化拳。各勢各有所稱，而實大同小異。 至今之溫家七十二行拳，三十六合鎖，二十四棄探馬，入閃番，十二 短， 此亦善之善者也。 呂紅八下雖剛，未及綿張短打。山東李半天之腿，鷹爪王之拿，千跌張之跌，張伯敬之打，少林寺之棍與青田棍法 相兼，楊氏鎗法，與巴子拳棍 ，皆今之有名者。

Different arts art are not the same.


2. Anyone are free to have their opinion. invent his own martial art, like you. And you still haven't answered the question

[Hendrik]

invent his own martial art, like you. And you still haven't answered the question

You are free to close your eyes and speculate

[deejaye72]

You are free to close your eyes and speculate

Still haven't answered the question. Can't open something that's already been open.

[Hendrik]

1. My student?

2. You are obviously trying to twist anything to win .
You action shows you never like me since the beginning.
So, just be straight forward. I am ok you like me or not.
Also, You also don't need to tolerate me, you don't have to read anything I post.

3. I have already told you, 30 years later let the Wck historian judge. Why even need to waste energy? I leave it to them here on.







Qi Guang Ji is talking about and describing various martial methods that existed in his time. It's not a detailed description on the mechanical differences between long fist and short hand.





This was your reply Hendrik. How can I not understand and be incorrect when I say something like Long and Short has the same "Engine", when you can? Is it because it only applies if you know "Snake Engine"?



You and your student agreed on another thread the above statement. If you say it is Wing Chun "Core" how can you say it uses long fist body power type? Wouldn't this be a contradiction by your own admission seeing as you believe that short and long are different and cannot co-exist?

Hendrik, I used to like you enough to tolerate you. Now I find myself convinced, by the statements you make, that you know absolutely nothing about martial arts. Anyone who comes to your defense is a fool.

Once again you still have not answered the question.

[GlennR]

1. My student?

2. You are obviously trying to twist anything to win .
You action shows you never like me since the beginning.
So, just be straight forward. I am ok you like me or not.
Also, You also don't need to tolerate me, you don't have to read anything I post.

3. I have already told you, 30 years later let the Wck historian judge. Why even need to waste energy? I leave it to them here on.

And thats your other excuse..... "you just dont like me"

Thats your standard reply when you cant answer questions or you are caught out again with the standard bull5hit that pours out of you.

People here try to keep to facts... you bring emotion into it

[kung fu fighter]

You and your student agreed on another thread the above statement. If you say it is Wing Chun "Core" how can you say it uses long fist body power type? Wouldn't this be a contradiction by your own admission seeing as you believe that short and long are different and cannot co-exist?

You are a clown and obviously don't get what Hendrik speaks about. please read what he said again below


Robert has the ancient core . So, the rest is his decision on how to evolve his lineage .

The body type power generation are in arts like Jook Lum SPM, Bak mei, Lung Ying, Choy LAy Fut, western boxing, Muai Thai, CSLWCK, as well as any other wing chun which does not use the force line snake engine type. All these arts have close range techniques using the body type power generation, however the wing chun snake engine force line type power generation is a more advance specialized engine better suited for close range fighting. CSLWCK uses this same body type power generation as these other arts, so there is no issue to incorporate techniques from any of these body type power generation arts since the fundamental power generation engine is the same.

[GlennR]

The body type power generation are in arts like Jook Lum SPM, Bak mei, Lung Ying, Choy LAy Fut, western boxing, Muai Thai, CSLWCK, as well as any other wing chun which does not use the force line snake engine type. All these arts have close range techniques using the body type power generation, however the wing chun snake engine force line type power generation is a more advance specialized engine better suited for close range fighting. CSLWCK uses this same body type power generation as these other arts, so there is no issue to incorporate techniques from any of these body type power generation arts since the fundamental power generation engine is the same.


So youre basically saying that Alans boys dont do WC?
Just some hybrid system they put together?

[KPM]

From the Long comes the Short. This you obviously do not comprehend, without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion. You understand nothing of kinesiology.

I don't know about Hendrik. But I understand plenty about kinesiology and biomechanics. And what you just said makes no sense.

[Hendrik]

From the Long comes the Short. This you obviously do not comprehend, without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion. You understand nothing of kinesiology.

I don't know about Hendrik. But I understand plenty about kinesiology and biomechanics. And what you just said makes no sense.

Often people not aware of the differences of these in the attached picture

[theo]

great diagram, i was looking for that one to put on here, but u beat me to it!


Often people not aware of the differences of these in the attached picture

[KPM]

Let's take a straight punch as an example. Doesn't matter if it is thrown from far away or in close the same mechanics are involved.

I guess it depends on the straight punch! For example, in the version of WCK I practice there is a "long range" straight punch (the Pin Sun Da) that involves a large pivot, extending the punching arm until it is almost completely straight, turning the body so it is completely perpendicular to the target and pulling the opposite arm back to increase the reach and power of the punch. YSKWCK has this punch as well. There is also a very short range straight punch that is delivered without any movement of the feet or with a slight step forward, body more square to the target, with the arm very bent, and with the rear hand forward to cover or protect. Two very different mechanics. One may travel for 2 feet, while the other only 2 inches. But the delivery of the last 2 inches of travel of the long range punch is not the same as the short range punch. So in my opinion, your statement of:

without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion.


is simply not true.

[tc101]

I guess it depends on the straight punch! For example, in the version of WCK I practice there is a "long range" straight punch (the Pin Sun Da) that involves a large pivot, extending the punching arm until it is almost completely straight, turning the body so it is completely perpendicular to the target and pulling the opposite arm back to increase the reach and power of the punch. YSKWCK has this punch as well.


That is not a long range punch it is a training punch.

If you think I am wrong try to use that in sparring and the light will come on.




There is also a very short range straight punch that is delivered without any movement of the feet or with a slight step forward, body more square to the target, with the arm very bent, and with the rear hand forward to cover or protect. Two very different mechanics. One may travel for 2 feet, while the other only 2 inches. But the delivery of the last 2 inches of travel of the long range punch is not the same as the short range punch. So in my opinion, your statement of:

without one there cannot be the other, they are one and the same. The only difference is the length of the motion.

is simply not true.

The model is not application.

[deejaye72]

[QUOTE=tc101;1266993]That is not a long range punch it is a training punch.

If you think I am wrong try to use that in sparring and the light will come on.

everything looks good on paper, until you try it.


"Everyone has a plan until they've been hit."

The man: Joe Louis.

those words are so true!

[KPM]

That is not a long range punch it is a training punch.

If you think I am wrong try to use that in sparring and the light will come on.




The model is not application.

You have no idea how it is used. You know nothing about my Wing Chun. Not everything is intended for "tit for tat" sparring with your buddies! :rolleyes:

[tc101]

You have no idea how it is used. You know nothing about my Wing Chun. Not everything is intended for "tit for tat" sparring with your buddies! :rolleyes:

Yes I know some things are only used for internet discussion and can never be shown to really work. My mistake.

[KPM]

What you refer to is two different punches, not one punch in two ranges. In YCWWC these punches you refer to are called Jian Chui (Arrow Punch) & Rizi Chong Chui (Sun Character Thrusting Punch). As you mentioned Side Body representing thin shape & Facing Body representing flat shape. The strikes have to come from the same position, they cannot be of different positions as this affects what muscle groupings are involved.

See it as you like I have no wish to argue.

Now hold Dave. You said "from the long comes the short, without one cannot be the other, they are one and the same."

I just provided an example of a long punch and a short punch that are not the same. One of them does not come from the other. Yes, of course they are two different punches. That was the point. Who ever said anything about "one punch in two ranges"? You just said a "straight punch." There is more than one punch that goes straight. Hendrik was talking about Wing Chun being a short strike are and CLF a long strike art and using different mechanics. He wasn't talking about them using "one punch in two ranges." So I guess I've missed your point. :confused:

[YouKnowWho]

It doesn't matter if I throw that straight punch from far away or close in, the same mechanics apply. Long or short makes no difference, from one comes the other.

If you coordinate your

- shoulder with your hip,
- elbow with your knee,
- hand with your foot,

a short punch means that you will have less time to to do your coordination. If you are used to throw a long punch that you will have plenty of time to do your 3 external harmonies, you may not be able to coordinate your 3 external harmonies in a short period of time.

A long fist guy may be good in long Jin. He will not be good in short Jin. In order for a long fist guy to learn short Jin, he will need "cross training".

[KPM]

Let's take a straight punch as an example. Doesn't matter if it is thrown from far away or in close the same mechanics are involved. The only time this would be contradictory is if for example, we compare two different punches like uppercut and hammer fist to the analogy and try to link them to the same mechanics and path. Same punches from long or short involve same movement assuming that they are launched from roughly the same position. Leverage, force and impact are then determined by acceleration of the movement. We could go further into this but I think that the salient points have been addressed. Do I make sense now?

Highlighted is what I said. You've misconstrued it. I clearly said SAME punches from long or short, not two different ones. It doesn't matter if I throw that straight punch from far away or close in, the same mechanics apply. Long or short makes no difference, from one comes the other. There are only 3 types of human motion, Linear motion (Translation), Angular motion (Rotation) and General motion (Combination of Translation & Rotation). There are no different mechanics involved because of distance. Explosive force or Gathering force are the dynamics employed based upon range but the mechanics will remain the same.

Ok. Clearly I missed your point. But even if YOU were talking about the SAME punch from two different distances, that doesn't mean that is what Hendrik was referring to when he talked about WCK being a "short strike art" and CLF being a "long strike art." Take for example a reverse punch thrown by a Karate practitioner compared to the Pin Sun Da mentioned above. Two long range punches with different mechanics. And practitioners of both Karate and KLPSWCK would argue that they have all of their joints coordinated. But IF you are talking about a punch that uses the same mechanics and joint coordination whether delivered from long or short range, then of course you are right. But that's kind of using circular logic to say a "long and short are the same, one depends on the other" when by definition you are talking about the same punch from different distances.

[Hendrik]

Ok. Clearly I missed your point. But even if YOU were talking about the SAME punch from two different distances, that doesn't mean that is what Hendrik was referring to when he talked about WCK being a "short strike art" and CLF being a "long strike art." Take for example a reverse punch thrown by a Karate practitioner compared to the Pin Sun Da mentioned above. Two long range punches with different mechanics. And practitioners of both Karate and KLPSWCK would argue that they have all of their joints coordinated. But IF you are talking about a punch that uses the same mechanics and joint coordination whether delivered from long or short range, then of course you are right. But that's kind of using circular logic to say a "long and short are the same, one depends on the other" when by definition you are talking about the same punch from different distances.

1.

The so called short strike power is generally describe as the following in traditional Chinese martial art

遠拳近肘貼身靠
Far fist close elbow stick body shoulder strike

拳打三節不見形
Strike cover from far to stick body without changing form ( meaning it can explode where ever it comes to contact even it is intercepted. Very different then ie karate reverse punch that it can get disable or trap before it complete accelerate and hitting target.)


And in order to do this it needs to play with force flow. As in any short strike art, one needs to prepare for off target strike all the time. For no one know exactly what happen with the momentum trend at contact, but based on sensing and adaptive ability.


2.

Why is it emei 12 zhuang and not taiji? Since both look similar and infact share basic mechanism?

The uniqueness is in the progressive sequence pattern of joints handling where taiji don't do , also , the emei goes further to handle the fingers joints as we Wck label as the biu Jee technology.

The wave like or snake slide like Progressive joints handling develop a different type of force handling capability in term of recieve and issue very different then taiji which uses circular motion and center in Dan dien area. Wck we don't do that because Wck concept is fighting in indoor center line play within that inch space or angle . So, center at Dan dien with big circular way of handle force joints is not supporting Wck fighting concept. But the wave like support it without have to move much.


Notice, snake slide worm move technology of emei doesn't means snake or worm animal. But the wave like motion of big joints similar to snake slide and small joints as the worm worm move.

Hope this above I explan it better.

No need to argue, develop it in your snt and you will like it. That is what I mean by turn on the snake engine.



3. And Ofcourse such detail handling of snake slide worm move technology


Destructively,
can be used to generate inch power as in biu Jee. Wck biu Jee is not a tensing finger thrusting, but a snake slide, one can see this in the biu Jee set. Or the snake section of SNT .

Constructively,
Can be used as treatment or keeping good blood circulation, joints and muscle conditioning , thus improve or strengthen health .


It is this clear now . We know how it works



4.
I am not trying to convert you, peruse you, or proof you wrong. I am presenting a fact in SNT that if not look at closely will miss a big part. I don't like to argue and talk more because if one doesn't get into this level one can't see. So, it is not about wrong or right those ego stuffs, but, how does it works?


Look at Wck in past 160 years after the ten years battle of Taiping, major good wcners are wipe out.

After that Wck get into a dark age. After that generation , people are trying thier best to survive with whatever they have, they needs to make it works, And these people don't even have much education compare with today's high school. They don't have the education , don't have the insight, don't have the time to train , we know most of them doesn't comprehend well, thus they didn't fully get the art. And thus, every generation is losing some thing. Until 1970, people starts to rebuilt.

as the generation in the red boat or before uprising, where time is rather peace and they preparing for decade to ear thier uprising. These people are elite , they are the generals in the battle of hundred of generals in that era, as one can see the names listed in the map of Kleber Taiping video.


So. IMHO, we have the luxury of peace and educated and scientific now. We can get back to 1848 and sort things out very quickly.



We do know today we don't have the advance technology as Wck 1848. Thus, the emei and white crane research are going on in this minute by many wcners around the world. We can evolve further once the basic platform settle to the first order .


5.
Many questions me on why I keep mention yik kam? Because to find out what and how Yik kam do it , is the focus of Cho family old timers,

for example,
one can see the letter of Gm Cheung Wei Bo , the most senior elderly in Cho family family tree , wrote to Late Gm Cho Chin of china decades ago, asking what and how The ancestors train . That letter is open to public about a decade ago.

I am not different then others of the past . Just another guy who trying to find out what is going on walking the same path of the tradition.

[deejaye72]

1.

The so called short strike power is generally describe as the following in traditional Chinese martial art

遠拳近肘貼身靠
Far fist close elbow stick body shoulder strike

拳打三節不見形
Strike cover from far to stick body without changing form ( meaning it can explode where ever it comes to contact even it is intercepted. Very different then ie karate reverse punch that it can get disable or trap before it complete accelerate and hitting target.)


And in order to do this it needs to play with force flow. As in any short strike art, one needs to prepare for off target strike all the time. For no one know exactly what happen with the momentum trend at contact, but based on sensing and adaptive ability.


2.

Why is it emei 12 zhuang and not taiji? Since both look similar and infact share basic mechanism?

The uniqueness is in the progressive sequence pattern of joints handling where taiji don't do , also , the emei goes further to handle the fingers joints as we Wck label as the biu Jee technology.

The wave like or snake slide like Progressive joints handling develop a different type of force handling capability in term of recieve and issue very different then taiji which uses circular motion and center in Dan dien area. Wck we don't do that because Wck concept is fighting in indoor center line play within that inch space or angle . So, center at Dan dien with big circular way of handle force joints is not supporting Wck fighting concept. But the wave like support it without have to move much.


Notice, snake slide worm move technology of emei doesn't means snake or worm animal. But the wave like motion of big joints similar to snake slide and small joints as the worm worm move.

Hope this above I explan it better.

No need to argue, develop it in your snt and you will like it. That is what I mean by turn on the snake engine.



3. And Ofcourse such detail handling of snake slide worm move technology


Destructively,
can be used to generate inch power as in biu Jee. Wck biu Jee is not a tensing finger thrusting, but a snake slide, one can see this in the biu Jee set. Or the snake section of SNT .

Constructively,
Can be used as treatment or keeping good blood circulation, joints and muscle conditioning , thus improve or strengthen health .


It is this clear now . We know how it works



4.
I am not trying to convert you, peruse you, or proof you wrong. I am presenting a fact in SNT that if not look at closely will miss a big part. I don't like to argue and talk more because if one doesn't get into this level one can't see. So, it is not about wrong or right those ego stuffs, but, how does it works?


Look at Wck in past 160 years after the ten years battle of Taiping, major good wcners are wipe out.

After that Wck get into a dark age. After that generation , people are trying thier best to survive with whatever they have, they needs to make it works, And these people don't even have much education compare with today's high school. They don't have the education , don't have the insight, don't have the time to train , we know most of them doesn't comprehend well, thus they didn't fully get the art. And thus, every generation is losing some thing. Until 1970, people starts to rebuilt.

as the generation in the red boat or before uprising, where time is rather peace and they preparing for decade to ear thier uprising. These people are elite , they are the generals in the battle of hundred of generals in that era, as one can see the names listed in the map of Kleber Taiping video.


So. IMHO, we have the luxury of peace and educated and scientific now. We can get back to 1848 and sort things out very quickly.



We do know today we don't have the advance technology as Wck 1848. Thus, the emei and white crane research are going on in this minute by many wcners around the world. We can evolve further once the basic platform settle to the first order .


5.
Many questions me on why I keep mention yik kam? Because to find out what and how Yik kam do it , is the focus of Cho family old timers,

for example,
one can see the letter of Gm Cheung Wei Bo , the most senior elderly in Cho family family tree , wrote to Late Gm Cho Chin of china decades ago, asking what and how The ancestors train . That letter is open to public about a decade ago.

I am not different then others of the past . Just another guy who trying to find out what is going on walking the same path of the tradition.

now broken down like this makes it easier to understand where you are coming from.

[Hendrik]

Great!

I don't know it all. And not always right!

Without communicate we can't know .


The patent of the emei is in specific way of the wave making alighnment of : the mind, joints, breathing, and Qi.

As it is in the kuit in the YKSLT


Y6手臂鞭出橫力勁
The arm whip out the horizontal jin
Y7神寄指爪䄂底旁。
Pay attention to the finger, craw , and the side under the sleeve .
Y8旋迥自然順脈氣
Spiral twisting naturally , follow the breathing and the direction of the qi.




Y9掌背向外神意足。
Back of Palm Faces Outward , Intention is Full.
Y10翻掌抽纏對心防
Rotating palm reeling guarding the heart.








Hendrik I can't believe this but I again agree. The wave progression that you describe I am familiar with in my own qigong practice. It is similar to Tajiquan but not the same. Taijiquan is generally a much larger circular movement that can contract to a small circle during projection and contact, as compared to the small roll to line projection found in the described qigong method. There is a fair amount of overlay between the two but the "Snake Slide Move" as you describe it, applies this wave that is emplyed by both arts to the small joints as well. So I can see how you would read into the "Small Details" or "Small Ideas".

I'm glad you have finally come to understand SNT and have found a method that can further explain it for you.

We will not agree on everything bring forth.

I apologize for harrassing you.

I do not agree with you that Emei Shier Zhuang is the mother of WC.

I have never studied Emei Shier Zhuang, but the method you describe was relayed to me from the begining of my WC training and my heritage relays a different history.

Irregardless of our personal opinions or approach we are on the same path headed in the same direction . It doesn't matter who gets there first, the journey is what is important.

Have a good day and quit spamming the forum! :)

[Hendrik]

I try to do my best when i have more time and keep improve as I can



now broken down like this makes it easier to understand where you are coming from.

[deejaye72]

Great!

I don't know it all. And not always right!

Without communicate we can't know .


The patent of the emei is in the wave making alight the mind, joints, breathing, and Qi.

same here i dont know it all either!

[HybridWarrior]

We do know today we don't have the advance technology as Wck 1848.

1) In your above statement...who is "we"?

2) When you write "SNT" ...does that mean (or are you referring to) the SNT of your wing chun which, if I'm not mistaken, is basically one long connected SNT, CK, BJ form...correct?

Thx.

[Hendrik]

1) In your above statement...who is "we"?

2) When you write "SNT" ...does that mean (or are you referring to) the SNT of your wing chun which, if I'm not mistaken, is basically one long connected SNT, CK, BJ form...correct?

Thx.


We means many wcners from different lineages have participate in this.

SNT means every lineage SNT, provided it is not evolve too far and the core elements still kept