Hendrik & Other Wing Chun Practices

[Minghequan]

Hi Hendrik,

Reading the copious amounts written by you here on Siu Nim Tao led me to wonder what of the other aspects of Wing Chun?

1/. Do you do the Chum Kiu and Bil Jee forms?

2/. Do you do the Long Pole?

3/. Do you do the Butterfly Knives?

4/. Do you do the Wooden Dummy Form?

5/. Do you do Chi-sao?

[theo]

to quote from WCI:

"Sifu Yik Kam’s Siu Lin Tau is a long set that has four parts and many sections in each part. The set is equal to the common three Wing Chun sets combined. In fact, the first part is very similar to that of other lineages. Basically, the four sections relate to Standing (part one), Shift & Move (part two), Rotate & Move (part three) and lastly Walking (part four)."


Hi Hendrik,

Reading the copious amounts written by you here on Siu Nim Tao led me to wonder what of the other aspects of Wing Chun?

1/. Do you do the Chum Kiu and Bil Jee forms?

2/. Do you do the Long Pole?

3/. Do you do the Butterfly Knives?

4/. Do you do the Wooden Dummy Form?

5/. Do you do Chi-sao?

[Minghequan]

Good stuff ... but it doesn't answer these simple yes or no questions put forward to Hendrik to answer.

[VT Andy]

Good stuff ... but it doesn't answer these simple yes or no questions put forward to Hendrik to answer.

How does one know what is inside knowledge when one has always only been on the outside? Only an insider knows what the outsider do not. Hendrik say he has the whole SLT but insiders say no he doesn't. Then he say he recorded it and learn from the video but only an insider know what is what. Sometimes one cannot tell difference between ignorance and stupidity.

[zuti car]

How does one know what is inside knowledge when one has always only been on the outside? Only an insider knows what the outsider do not. Hendrik say he has the whole SLT but insiders say no he doesn't. Then he say he recorded it and learn from the video but only an insider know what is what. Sometimes one cannot tell difference between ignorance and stupidity.

Insiders basically said that only family members will get complete system . Hendrik showed much more honesty in his intentions than "insiders" .

[KPM]

Insiders basically said that only family members will get complete system . Hendrik showed much more honesty in his intentions than "insiders" .

Yes. Its seems the "insiders" are only here to smear. I haven't seen them yet start any interesting and informative threads. And this whole secretive "insider" attitude is a big part of the problem. If things were taught openly and shared freely there wouldn't be any doubt about whether Hendrik "had the whole SLT" or not, would there?

[tc101]

Yes. Its seems the "insiders" are only here to smear. I haven't seen them yet start any interesting and informative threads. And this whole secretive "insider" attitude is a big part of the problem. If things were taught openly and shared freely there wouldn't be any doubt about whether Hendrik "had the whole SLT" or not, would there?

I think the real problem both with Hendrik and the insiders and also with many in wing chun is the thinking that there is such a thing as special knowledge in the first place. It is that idea that some piece of knowledge or concept or whatever that some one can give you will make all the difference. This is what the guys selling you some thing want you to believe because they are the ones who have the secret the inside information or whatever to make you superior lol. The Orr team or Obasi would destroy easily any of these insiders or Hendrik or ermei grandmasters because of how they train not because of any secret special knowledge or that their know some special concept or that they do the forms the so called right way. It's the same in boxing.

[zuti car]

I think the real problem both with Hendrik and the insiders and also with many in wing chun is the thinking that there is such a thing as special knowledge in the first place. It is that idea that some piece of knowledge or concept or whatever that some one can give you will make all the difference. This is what the guys selling you some thing want you to believe because they are the ones who have the secret the inside information or whatever to make you superior lol. The Orr team or Obasi would destroy easily any of these insiders or Hendrik or ermei grandmasters because of how they train not because of any secret special knowledge or that their know some special concept or that they do the forms the so called right way. It's the same in boxing.

My opinion exactly , a fist in the face is the only secret , there is not going to be better than that . You train to hit as hard as you can or not and that is it .

[zuti car]

Yes. Its seems the "insiders" are only here to smear. I haven't seen them yet start any interesting and informative threads. And this whole secretive "insider" attitude is a big part of the problem. If things were taught openly and shared freely there wouldn't be any doubt about whether Hendrik "had the whole SLT" or not, would there?

I always laugh when I hear this "close door" ,"secret" thing. In essence , they do not know what is Hendrik talking about , they do not understand anything and they feel they've lost their face somehow , now, in order to save "face" , they will do what any decent Chinese would do , they will have a "secret" , not known to the outsiders . This way they will be only ones who actually have complete knowledge and feeling that they have control over the system . You cannot show even a hint that you are better than Chinese in purely Chinese stuff , like kung fu , that will not be taken lightly and even physical violence is acceptable in order to save face , I have some experience in that. I would advise Hendrik not to visit insiders any time soon .

[YouKnowWho]

I always laugh when I hear this "close door" ,"secret" thing.

When you go to a school, you may learn how to "apply" a technique. You may not learn how to

- set up that move,
- enhance that move.
- counter that move.
- ...

until you have stayed in that school long enough.

[zuti car]

When you go to a school, you may learn how to "apply" a technique. You may not learn how to

- set up that move,
- enhance that move.
- counter that move.
- ...

until you have stayed in that school long enough.

Like I said before , it is obvious that close door students , using these secret techniques won numerous full contact fights because
-opponent will wait until the move is set up ,
enhanced ,and of course , opponent would not know how to defend him self , especially if he is a professional fighter

[tc101]

When you go to a school, you may learn how to "apply" a technique. You may not learn how to

- set up that move,
- enhance that move.
- counter that move.
- ...

until you have stayed in that school long enough.

You never really learn how to apply a technique through some one else telling you. All of that and more you learn only from sparring. You only really learn application through sparring that is really applying your art against some one fighting with you.

Let me ask you if a teacher was not a fighter or has not done a great deal on sparring how can he teach anyone how to set up a move or enhance the move or counter the move? Is he teaching what he does in fighting or is he teaching how he thinks things should work? If he is really teaching what he successfully does in sparring or fighting you can use that as a guide in working out how to make things work for you. If he is teaching you how he thinks things should work he is misleading you down the garden path. Do you think some one who hasn't learned to box and you only learn to box in the ring can tell others how they should box?

In wing chun I think the perspective of many is that it is all about the information and having some one TELL you things and that this is most important. They love their information and keep it close. They are the information technology guys. Wing chun is built on information. They argue over whose information is best or original or superior. It is very funny.

As boxers know it is not the information but the training that makes all the difference. The ring time the experience the conditioning all the things the information technology guys never talk about and don't do are the things that really matter.

[KPM]

There's the mantra again! Thanks Twen! :rolleyes:

[tc101]

There's the mantra again! Thanks Twen! :rolleyes:

It's no mantra this is how things work. There is a process involved in learning how to spar which is learning how to fight with your art. You can see it for yourself in any boxing gym. Thats what boxing or fight trainers do they work the process. When you see things from this perspective so many of these issues go away.

[KPM]

It's no mantra this is how things work. There is a process involved in learning how to spar which is learning how to fight with your art. You can see it for yourself in any boxing gym. Thats what boxing or fight trainers do they work the process. When you see things from this perspective so many of these issues go away.

And so, it becomes your answer to EVERY single discussion topic????? :rolleyes:

[YouKnowWho]

You never really learn how to apply a technique through some one else telling you. All of that and more you learn only from sparring.
I tried to promote the concept of "sparring before forms" back in 1991.

8434

You

- "develop" your skill in "partner training".
- "test" your skill in "sparring/wrestling".

In sparring/wrestling, you will find out what you need. You then find a right path that can help you to get there. That's called "backward search" in AI.

[Kellen Bassette]

Sparring should be day one. It makes no sense to teach forms without a solid base in real-time application. I believe foot work and at least one technique should be taught on the first day. If you have footwork and at least one technique there is no reason to not try applying it, even if it's just controlled, light sparring.

[YouKnowWho]

Sparring should be day one.

You have to learn how to float before you can learn how to swim. It doesn't matter how ugly that your float may look like, as long as you can float, you already have some survival skill.

I had trained one guy for 8 months. We met 4 times a week, 2 hours per session. We did full contact sparring only (no control). There was no forms work, no stance work, not even stretching. 8 months later, that guy got into a bar fight, his opponent could not even touch him. So I have proved myself that "sparring at day one" does work in real life.

By using this training method, you may be able to deal with "average Joe". If you want to deal with the best of the best. You will still need some serious "partner training" to drill your technique 10,000 times.