Inside the Yik Kam Cho Gar vs Hendrik Santos CONTROVERSY

[VT Andy]

I have been doing some reading and I find what is conveniently ignored by the disciple of Cho Hung Choy. This informations come from inside the Cho Gar family members. It is the same group that is the direct source of Cho Hung Choy’s kung fu the Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun clan in Malaysia. Some here already dismiss their public announcement as false to counter the Cho family denouncement contradicting Hendrik Santos. But to dismiss is not enough by any means to prove it as false in my book. Some questions also conveniently ignored but need to be ask and hopefully everyone who reading this [supporter and against alike] will consider.

Claim – Hendrik Santos is sole successor of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun by his Sifu Cho Hung Choy.
Claim – Hendrik Santos publicly claim Ermei 12 palms system is the mother art of all Wing Chun.
Claim – Hendrik Santos publicly claim if WCK is without Ermei 12 palms system it is not WCK.
Claim – Hendrik Santos publicly claim all WCK without the core of Ermei will die out between one generation and 30 yrs time.
Claim – Hendrik Santos just sharing his story unbias leave it up to public to accept

Before we can understand we must look at big picture. Take look at who is Cho Hung Choy and Cho Gar clan first before understanding Hendrik.


From Cho Gar family member Patrick Tham on FB, WC Malaysia page.

There is a drastic difference between students and disciples. The actual forms were only taught to immediate family members. Whereas those learning in schools within the Cho village were only taught modified forms. The original 108 complete single form was used to modify Hung Kuen, Choy Lay Fatt, etc and taught to the students. Cho Onn also did not teach the original form to his early students including Cho Hung Choy, Yeung Kam Jiang, Hendrick Santos and others. Until today, the original form is only imparted to selected closed door disciples.

None of the elders in Cho Ga has knowledge about Yik Kam's Siu Lim Tao having a hybrid of Emei 12 form ad claimed by Hendrick Santos. It is a fabrication of his own imagination.

Hendrik Santos is indeed Cho Hung Choy's disciple. No doubt about it. But Cho Hung Choy was not Cho Onn's nephew at all. He was just someone from the Cho Village in Punyu that Cho Onn was asked to bring to Nanyang as those days it was difficult to clear the immigration unless they claim to be immediate family members. When Cho Hung Choy was older, Cho Onn brought him back to Punyu to marry one of the village girls. He did not learn any martial art while he was back at the village. This was told to some of us by the Cho Ga elders when we were back at Punyu.


According to elders of Yik Kam and Cho Gar families who are the seniors and peers of Cho Hung Choy he was not nephew of Cho Onn. He was not family at all but was someone from the Cho Village in Punyu. Cho Onn was ask to smuggle him to Nanyang because in those days it was very difficult to clear to immigration without being actual family member so Cho Onn help him immigrate. When Cho Hung Choy was older age then Cho Onn took him back to Punyu only for purposes of marrying a village girl. He did not learn any kung fu from Cho Chuen when going back to Cho village. This is very important to understand

Now look at tradition of Cho Gar clan. As difference between student and disciple is great also as family member vs outsider. What that means is it helps to understand tradition and culture of Cho Family and how they pass knowledge. Cho Gar elders explain publicly that core art of Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun only reserved for immediate family members. Students learning at Cho village who not family members only access to modified forms and trainings. The Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun original 108 long form is complete and intact, and is source for modifying Choy Li Fut, Hung Kuen, other arts. Original complete system is not taught to outsiders and students but preserve and exist today with family members and closed door disciples internally only.

Cho Onn is family member insider. As facts presented by Cho Gar family elders Cho Onn did not teach original form to the students per tradition. He did teach only modified method to Cho Hung Choy Yeung Kam Jiang, Hendrik Santos, all other outsiders. Cho Gar family tradition is maintain still today. Original core teaching is prserve for family member and close-door disciples only. Another declaration by Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun clan is publicly declares “none of the elders in Cho Gar have any knowledge about Yik Kam’s Siu Lim Tao having a hybrid of Emei 12 form as claimed by Hendrik Santos. It is a fabrication of his own imagination.”

Fact – Cho Hung Choy not family member of Cho Gar family
Fact – difference in knowledge impart to students vs closed door disciples
Fact – Cho Hung Choy not learn original family art of Cho Gar family
Fact – Cho Hung Choy only receive modified knowledge from Cho Gar original art
Fact – Cho Gar family insiders denounce Hendrik’s claim of Yik Kam Cho Gar kung fu have anything to do with Emei 12 Palms system.

[VT Andy]

Cho Gar family member Carlos Kennerly:

“Nga Wu village was the home of Yik Gam and Cho Family. It where Cho Yin On came from and where Cho Chuen remained. Research these two names.

As a self proclaimed researcher H. Santo has ignored a part of and the source of his own lineages Kung Fu some people would find this strange if you or other don't then fair enough...

H. Santo has said openly many times everyone from Cho Family lineages in SEA and China have lost the true wing chun "engine" (including the people he calls Siheng) stating Hung Kuen or CLF engines.

Cho Bak Lun learnt from his father (Cho Chuen) all his life until his fathers passing.
Ku Cho Wah learnt from his uncle Lau Soon Yeun since 1968 and from Cho Yin On directly since 1972 until his passing in 1993. In 1986 he was chosen by Cho Yin On as his inheritor.

Apparently only H. Santo knows the true WC of Cho Family or Yik Kam and the blood descendants and inheritors have lost what was pasted down father to son and from master to chosen inheritor.

How many years did H. Santo learn from his Sifu before leaving for the US at the same time doing Karate.....?

Is he a Chi Kung expert most probably, is his chi kung exercise good for you and cure your bad back most probably.

Does H. Santo have Cho Family flavour and application? not from what I can see or from what he has explained in his many video's BUT this is just my personal opinion from my own hands on experiences (as a poor student) with Family Elders in SEA and China over the last 8 years.


Am I saying H. Santo did not learn Cho Family WC... NO, of course not. I know he learnt in Cho Hong Choi's School in Malaysia.
I am saying what he is doing or saying is rubbish....NO.
Have I touched hands with him...No.

For all I know he may be a genius! and I wish him well with his continue with his evolution of his own WC.

Carlos Kennerley”


No one in Cho Gar clan dispute that Hendrik Santos is disciple of Cho Hung Choy for sure. Certainly as Hendrik show to internet world his letter as proof endorsement he can spread Cho Hung Choy teachings. But, Cho Hung Choy was not ever successor/head of Cho Gar family clan. How can someone who not a successor of a clan create a successor for the clan? That would be call mutiny. Grandmaster Ku Choi Wah is one recognize as the head of Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun clan, just as one body can only have one head, one country can only have one president, one family can only have one father. The source of Hendrik’s Yik Kam Cho Gar education still exist today.

The dispute appears that no one in branch clan in Penang Malaysia apparently aware that GM Ku was appointed as successor of the clan. GM Ku publicly announce no threats are made to Hendrik Santos but they also do not recognize Hendrik Santos as any person of authority to do with their clan. He cannot speak for them or represent them but has been doing for a long time free to make claims after claims. Now the chief of Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun clan and protector of their art makes clear to all people what is what and who knows what. Penang branch clan of Cho Gar recognize their root, but does Hendrik or does he ignores the Cho Gar descendants like they don’t exist?

Question – Why has Hendrik never communicate to GM Ku Choi Wah? Why?
Question – If Cho Hung Choy only learn modified art, then does that mean Hendrik Santos also does not have complete original art from Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun clan?
Question – If Hendrik Santos only learn modified Cho Gar Wing Chun from Cho Hung Choy Sifu, why has he not go to source of Cho Gar to complete his learning the original clan art?
Question – Why does Hendrik Santos avoid elders of Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun clan since they still preserve complete art?
Question – How can Hendrik Santos be successor of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun when he only learn modified version from Cho Hung Choy who learn modified version from Cho Onn?

What is clear as demonstrated and record on this forum with testimony from key partys?

1. There is no Ermei 12 Zhuang in original art and teachings of Ban Chung Zheng Dam Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun
2. Cho Hung Choy did not learn Ermei Sup Yi Zhuang, and never was a Yik Kam Cho Gar successor.
3. Hendrik did not learn Ermei Sup Yi Zhuang from Cho Hung Choy
4. Hendrik refuse to accept these facts from actual insiders of core Cho Gar family
5. Hendrik either does not know he only learned modified Cho Gar or refuse to be honest about it
6. Hendrik look to fill his modified Cho Gar Wing Chun by mimicking Ermei books and internet video
7. Hendrik is sole person fabricating and imagining connection of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun to outsider arts
8. Hendrik is reinventing Yik Kam and Cho Gar family history and spreading it to community
9. Hendrik avoids direct questions and distracts others to prove his ideas for him as form of crafting deception
10. Hendrik using GM Fu as scapegoat and goose chase for avoiding public heat
11. Hendrik efforts is denounce by his original ancestor clan who still exist today
12. Hendrik efforts denounce by Snake and Crane clan for misusing and twisting their Kuit for his personal theory
13. Hendrik rely on fabrication and imagination for 30 years but avoiding Cho Family members all this time
14. Hendrik cannot name any Ermei Snake Crane Sifu he get legit training from to back up his 30 years of imagination
15. Hendrik always always overstep and try to speak for all Wing Chun clans 24/7 broken record until people believe him
16. Hendrik not qualified to represent Ban Chung Zheng Dam Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun Clan and their Kung Fu
17. Hendrik is spreading lies about Ban Chung Zheng Dam Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun Clan and their Kung Fu
18. Hendrik not qualified to represent other Wing Chun clans
19. Hendrik only endorse by Cho Hung Choy to spread Cho Hung Choy’s teachings
20. Hendrik is self appoint researcher and self appoint successor of Cho Gar, not recognize by anyone.
21. Hendrik is not honest in his misleading the public pretending to wear Buddhist robe and lying about being Yik Kam Cho Gar successor.

[Minghequan]

Bloody Fantastic! Thank you for a wonderful and interesting post!

[Hendrik]

excellent excellent questions,
i will reply for one last time as a public record for the wck researchers of the present and future.




Question – Why has Hendrik never communicate to GM Ku Choi Wah? Why?


answer : Hendrik met Ku Choi Wah in 2000 in singapore, at Ku Choi Wah's student Ian's house. Ku was living in Ian House at that time. and Hendrik meet many Ku students: Ian, Nigel, Bertran.....etc. Ku was asking Hendrik to share Hendrik insight in Cho family WCK to his students.

Hendrik let Ku choi wah video tape Hendrik or Cho Hung Choy 's Yik kam SLT and woodern dummy set .
Evidence of Ku chai wah and Hendrik sharing had been presented many times in KFO .




Question – If Cho Hung Choy only learn modified art, then does that mean Hendrik Santos also does not have complete original art from Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun clan?


answer: Cho Hung Choy is the first WCK student of GM Cho Onn . He has inherited from Cho Onn the original complete art of Yik kam SLT with kuen kuit. Cho Hung Choy is one of the recognized elderly of Cho family by the old timers of Cho Gar, and the person who responsible on many Kong Sau in Penang Malaysia represent Wing chun kuen and Cho gar. evidence had been presented many times in KFO.

"if " simply doesnt exist . it is just your creative imagination.




Question – If Hendrik Santos only learn modified Cho Gar Wing Chun from Cho Hung Choy Sifu, why has he not go to source of Cho Gar to complete his learning the original clan art?

answer: Hendrik Santo has inherited a complete art of Yik kam SLT from his sifu. There is no need to go else where to repeat studying what have been learn




Question – Why does Hendrik Santos avoid elders of Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun clan since they still preserve complete art?


answer: Hendrik Santo never avoid any one, in fact,
for example : uses Cheung Wei Po , the most senior living elderly of Cho gar today, youtube and writing , and Ku Choi Wah's documents
to verify and confirm, Hendrik's information. evidence has been presented many times in KFO




Question – How can Hendrik Santos be successor of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun when he only learn modified version from Cho Hung Choy who learn modified version from Cho Onn?


answer: Hendrik Santo is A succesor of Cho Gar via Gm Cho Hung Choy. He inherit the part of the Yik kam 1848 original art which passed by Cho Onn to Cho Hung Choy to Hendrik Santo.







Finally,


l like to qoute the famous Wing chun kuen saying which Gm Ipman often says
" Studying doesnt discriminate if one is junior or senior in age, the one who has master the art is the teacher."

and

the qoute from Gm Lee Kong , todays top Fujian white crane grandmaster,

" kung fu doesnt not come from relative relationship"

[Hendrik]

Yik kam, Cho gar Wck, and Emei 12 zhuang mother art connection.




Aware or not ,

the kuen kuit of both

A, The complete original yik kam SLT kuen kuit Hendrik inherited from Gm Cho Hung Choy.

And

B, the attached Ku Choi Wah lineage Ban Chung snt kuit , which Ku Choi Wah shared with me in Ian's home face to face at 2000s.

Have Emei 12 zhuang kuit signature in both of them.






With Ku Choi Wah lineage Kuit also has Choy Lee Fut signature.

And

The complete yik kam kuit of Hendrik has Emei 12 zhuang and Fujian White crane signature , But no trace of Choy Lee Fut or other art signature.

[Minghequan]

the qoute from Gm Lee Kong , todays top Fujian white crane grandmaster,

" kung fu doesnt not come from relative relationship"

Hendrik, interesting that you use this quote from Sifu Lee Kong. Can you point to where it came from?

What was/is your relationship with Sifu Lee Kong???

[zuti car]

I can see providing the evidence written by your own hand is going well . Now , how about that address of the museum where that old book, your key evidence, can be found ?

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, interesting that you use this quote from Sifu Lee Kong. Can you point to where it came from?


1.
Sure,


Gm Lee Kong commented the above in this Facebook group a few months ago .

https://www.facebook.com/groups/297656860373657/





2.
kung fu doesnt not come from relative relationship.

Ie. Means
Even as close as father and son relative relationship still kungfu doesn't transfer.
A son of a grandmaster doesn't get the Kung fu of his father by default. The same family last name doesn't automatically get the Kung fu by default due to relationship


3.
They are many Wck researchers who works with me have direct contact with Gm Lee Kong and his students.


As I have told you. We have a team of wcners from different Wck lineages around the world researching . Everyone has different network connection be able to get data from multiple sources and verify .

I am just one in significant member of the team.

[Hendrik]

I can see providing the evidence written by your own hand is going well . Now , how about that address of the museum where that old book, your key evidence, can be found ?

Above is the photo of the original document gave to me by Ku Choi Wah face to face with his own hand.


As I have told you. I let the wcners meeting in Boston now post the emei information. I would not take credit of others.

[Minghequan]

Hendrik. To MeRobert ChuJack Chang

Feb 17

Wayne,

1. Be able to make Happy is a great thing Robert and I will do.

2. Great that you met Sergio and have first hand understanding on him and the possibility for further program. My best wishes for you and him. I am sure there are alots of things you can teaches him on the history and culture of Wck. Also, you guys sure will come up with good videos for Wck history and SCWC to share with the world.

3. I have made my decision to wash my hand on Wck and become a full time Buddhist since my mission in Wck is completed. That is what I like to do here on with lots of good memories in Wck.

Best regards Hendrik

Sent from my iPad


You wrote this. It can be fully verified.

My question to you is:

1/. When are you going to "wash your hands of Wck" (as if they aren't dirty enough) and "become a full time Buddhist"???

2/. Now that "your mission in Wck is completed" why are you still posting here?

[Minghequan]

Sure,


Gm Lee Kong commented the above in this Facebook group a few months ago .

https://www.facebook.com/groups/297656860373657/

They are many Wck researchers who works with me have direct contact with Gm Lee Kong and his students

Great and well hmmmm ..... Interesting! Can you direct me to the exact quote via a direct link or screen capture???

[zuti car]

Above is the photo of the original document gave to me by Ku Choi Wah face to face with his own hand.


As I have told you. I let the wcners meeting in Boston now post the emei information. I would not take credit of others.

I cannot see what is the connection of that boston meeting with a museum in Beijing ,I am only interested in that book of yours , so please , provide me an address or the full name of the museum so I can exam the book if there is one, stop avoiding the answer .

[Daniel Fong]

From Hong Kong newspaper "Headlines daily",

4月12日
香港頭條日報

勝負都是過眼雲煙
2014/4/11 上午 10:43:10
網誌分類: 生活
　　
最近我在內地跟幾位武術名家交流，他們都說：「你們的詠春拳，發展不錯！但這拳種，只在南方有人識，到了北 方，很多人聞所未聞！」我聽後內心有跟他辯論的衝動，但最後打消念頭。突然記起電影《一代宗師》裏，飾演葉 問的梁朝偉在戲裏說的一段話：「人家說，武學千年，勝負都是過眼雲煙。功夫可以分南北，國家又豈能分南北？ 我們不在意是一招一式，你們在意是整個武林，而我就是整個世界！」我心想：「修文者為求明理不論古今，練武 者追尋實用不分南北。」於是我說：「我們詠春拳，雖在北方剛起步，但現今已傳遍世界！」

詠春拳由葉問宗師南傳發展，短短數十年間，以驚人速度發展。在詠春拳派的支流裏，葉問系統的成績更是一枝獨 秀。

在這趨勢下，確實有很多投機取巧的功夫騙子，搵個輩份高的師傅，先去交幾百元，學幾個月，然後過冷河，返屋 企睇YouTube學齊其他套路，就掛牌收學生！或跟十個、八個師傅學過後，話自己取各家之長 。

練功夫是不能心存坑、蒙、拐、騙、偷，教學更不可以只顧自己「刮龍」，過到海就是神仙，誤人誤 己。

沒恩怨，沒是非，就不是武林！最近我在YouTube看到有位外籍中國人話，要為詠春拳尋根解碼，在網上自 拍視頻說葉問的詠春功夫，是「半桶水不齊全」，是到香港先抄這個、學那個，才修成正果。我認為，他沒確實證 據。

據我所知，這位外籍人士最早亦是葉問詠春拳的傳人，近年才拜另一支流門下。我有責任去調查，對自己對讀者有 個交代。

我早年曾拜訪多條支流的詠春派前輩，我見過葉問佛山的最早期弟子郭富、倫佳師傅，亦拜訪過吳仲素祖師的後人 ，還聽了許多老前輩說有關葉、阮、姚三雄的故事。

經分析後，關於問公的謠傳，便知是以訛傳訛。但不招人妒是庸才，前人已蓋棺定論又何需妄加評說，懂得欣賞別 人，才能顯出包容之量，覺得自己不足，才是成功的開始。

[Hendrik]

I cannot see what is the connection of that boston meeting with a museum in Beijing ,I am only interested in that book of yours , so please , provide me an address or the full name of the museum so I can exam the book if there is one, stop avoiding the answer .


Boston wcners are meeting Gm Fu of Emei 12 zhuang. They have the direct first hand information which they will share .

[Hendrik]

Great and well hmmmm ..... Interesting! Can you direct me to the exact quote via a direct link or screen capture???

Join that group and search.

That simple.

[Hendrik]

You wrote this. It can be fully verified.

My question to you is:

1/. When are you going to "wash your hands of Wck" (as if they aren't dirty enough) and "become a full time Buddhist"???

2/. Now that "your mission in Wck is completed" why are you still posting here?





1. I wash my hand or not is none of anyone business. I can change my mind even I have that is my freedom.

2. Even if I wash my hand, I still can present my view as the Buddha can present his past.

3. My mission in Wck is completed doesn't mean I am dead and not speaking to clarify false accusation.



Do I need anyone's approval to run my life?


Where is Moduk to release others private email without permission?

[zuti car]

Boston wcners are meeting Gm Fu of Emei 12 zhuang. They have the direct first hand information which they will share .

I do not care about stories nor I have interest in emei snake , I am interested in hard historical evidence , like that book you are using as a support for your theories , so , once again , stop avoiding the answer , provide the address or full name of the museum

[Minghequan]

Join that group and search.

That simple.

Well I went to the group you provided the link (Man you spammed that one as well!) for and I searched back through all the posts and comments back far enough to the one post By Sifu Lee Kong on December 25 2013 which had nothing to do with the quote you have attributed to him going back a few months ago:


Hendrik wrote:

Gm Lee Kong commented the above in this Facebook group a few months ago .

https://www.facebook.com/groups/297656860373657/

Hmmm.:confused:

Also Hendrik, You didn't answer my other question so I'll put it forward to you again:

What was/is your relationship with Sifu Lee Kong???

[Hendrik]

I do not care about stories nor I have interest in emei snake , I am interested in hard historical evidence , like that book you are using as a support for your theories , so , once again , stop avoiding the answer , provide the address or full name of the museum

I told you I let other wcners who has the direct first hand information do it.

I don't own Emei research . I don't speak for Emei. And I don't take other Wck researchers credit.

[Hendrik]

Well I went to the group you provided the link (Man you spammed that one as well!) for and I searched back through all the posts and comments back far enough to the one post By Sifu Lee Kong on December 25 2013 which had nothing to do with the quote you have attributed to him going back a few months ago:



Hmmm.:confused:

Also Hendrik, You didn't answer my other question so I'll put it forward to you again:

What was/is your relationship with Sifu Lee Kong???


Since you are the white crane expert who has connection to Gm Lee kong.
Contact him and find out. It is his post not mine.
I don't have time to baby feed.


Btw. My relationship with anyone is none of your business and got nothing to do with this thread.

If you cant even think straight. You better don't post here.

[Minghequan]

Okay Hendrik, but you do post quotes attributed to others as if you and that person have a connection. See your quote you attributed to Sifu Kong Lee stating it was only a few months ago but the first posting by Sifu Lee Kong on that Facebook group was way back on December 25 2013 and does not have anything to do with the quote you have attributed to him???

Hmmm :confused:

Also Hendrik, You didn't answer my other question so I'll put it forward to you again:

What was/is your relationship with Sifu Lee Kong???

[Hendrik]

Okay Hendrik, but you do post quotes attributed to others as if you and that person have a connection. See your quote you attributed to Sifu Kong Lee stating it was only a few months ago but the first posting by Sifu Lee Kong on that Facebook group was way back on December 25 2013 and does not have anything to do with the quote you have attributed to him???

Hmmm :confused:

Also Hendrik, You didn't answer my other question so I'll put it forward to you again:

What was/is your relationship with Sifu Lee Kong???



http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67614-Inside-the-Yik-Kam-Cho-Gar-vs-Hendrik-Santos-CONTROVERSY&p=1267688#post1267688

[Firehawk4]

I think you are a Charlatan like a bunch of these fake Jesus preachers and Kung Fu Sifus . When are you going to use Emei Zhuang in Ultimate Fighting or mixed martial art ring all you do is babble about this Emei Zhuang crap if it dont work in reality fighting then what good is it . Why should i learn that stuff .

[Hendrik]

I think you are a Charlatan like a bunch of these fake Jesus preachers and Kung Fu Sifus .

When are you going to use Emei Zhuang in Ultimate Fighting or mixed martial art ring all you do is babble about this Emei Zhuang crap if it dont work in reality fighting then what good is it . Why should i learn that stuff .



You are free to think as you like.

Who care what you like to learn? I don't. It is your choice. No one force you to read my posts.

[Minghequan]

Hendrik posted Today, 01:01 PM

Since you are the white crane expert who has connection to Gm Lee kong.
Contact him and find out. It is his post not mine.
I don't have time to baby feed.


Btw. My relationship with anyone is none of your business and got nothing to do with this thread.

If you cant even think straight. You better don't post here.

Thank you very much Hendrik for acknowledging my White Crane, ... your not the first to do so as so has Sifu Su YingHan, Sifu Lee Kong, and Sifu Lin Yuan Dun to name but a few but hey, let's not "name drop" shall we as I know how much you hate doing that!;)


Since you are the white crane expert who has connection to Gm Lee kong.
Contact him and find out. It is his post not mine.
I don't have time to baby feed.

You know, I was hoping you would say that .... why? ... because I have done just that!

Here is his response regarding you Hendrik;


"Lee Kong said you are a mouse, who likes to take things from others and that you should be ignored completely"

Hmm doesn't quite sound like you and he are buddies little enough fellow researchers does it Hendrik? :confused::eek::confused:


Btw. My relationship with anyone is none of your business and got nothing to do with this thread.

Sorry Hendrik but you make it my business and the business of others by posting on this forum and making up quotes attributed to people I happen to know!


If you cant even think straight.

WTF! Man you can't even answer a straight and remarkably simple question as put to you and you have the hide to say I can't think straight!!! How's that working for you Hendrik? Ever hear the saying "That's the pot calling the kettle black?)


You better don't post here.

Is that some sort of childish and petty Hendrik threat? What's next Hendrik, the Forum Police and the FBI (Forum Bureau of Investigations) showing up on my door step? :D You don't own this forum so don't tell me not to post here. I'm going to stick around and follow every post you make ... I find it entertaining!

[Hendrik]

Enough information for the Wck researchers, on Yik kam, Cho family, and Emei.

Here I sign off this thread.

[GlennR]

You are free to think as you like.

Who care what you like to learn? I don't. It is your choice. No one force you to read my posts.

Who cares?
You care........ you are obsessed

If you "dont care" go away and dont post here, keep it to yourself, no one cares.

Find a nice bunch of people and teach them your nonsense face to face..... no one cares about your ideas and what you write is the rambing of a madman.... seriously

Once again, no one really cares, your efforts are wasted here and the countless other places you spam, yes spam as there is no other word for it.

And you say who forces us to read your post? You do, you plaster your posts like cheap graffiti all over this forum.... you cant see past it

Go away

[zuti car]

I told you I let other wcners who has the direct first hand information do it.

I don't own Emei research . I don't speak for Emei. And I don't take other Wck researchers credit.

You used that book as a foundation of your research , you posted that as a support to your claims , so , why is such a problem for you to give the location of that artifact , that would be a huge step in proving your theories have some base in reality . So , once again , please provide address or full name of the museum , stop avoiding the answer.

[Minghequan]

You are free to think as you like.

Who care what you like to learn? I don't. It is your choice. No one force you to read my posts.

How much of a contradiction are you man?

First you write and say I shouldn't be posting here then you say to others "You are free to think as you like" and this gem "It is your choice. No one force you to read my posts"

Read your own words Hendrick. Stop being so hypocritical and two-faced. "You can't have your cake and eat it mate!"

Seriously, the more you write the more you slip up on your own words ... crazy stuff!:p

[Minghequan]

Enough information for the Wck researchers, on Yik kam, Cho family, and Emei.

Here I sign off this thread.

Yeah you do that Hendrik! Take your bat and ball and run off home to your Mount Emei!

Run away without facing up and answering the questions put to you ... just like you do on every other post you have made on this forum!

Hendrik, you WILL go down in Wing Chun history.

Just not in the way you want to.

You will be remembered as that guy who said a lot about nothing who ran away when asked to answer questions .......... Some legacy!:(:(:(

[Minghequan]

Hendrik, you wrote this on another thread in reply to Zuti Car:


it is your issue of either you back up your claim with your video or you will be look at as baseless claimer. Your choice.

You had to go ahead and write that didn't you Hendrik??? Man you really are your own worst enemy!

Can't you see how your own words apply to you?

8431

Oh come on, It's only a little bit of fun!

[Daniel Fong]

Today, Grandmaster Ku is 75, and he always travel around Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong and China. Still very active to promote Ban Chung Wck.

Accoding to what Hendrik said, 1980, he was 20., today he should be 54. However, he all the time work with his PC on internet seeking and teaching only, no travelling around.

We know he was over 230 pounds in 2000 as he met Grandmaster Ku in Singapore. However, from his videos and pictures, he looks skinny, 150 pounds today. What's wrong ? Emei effect to make him having a snake body ! He had mentioned to maintain a snake body. Does he get sick in the last 14 years ?

1. Hendrik claim he reach the 3rd level of 9 the emei qi gong.
2. he claim he got the authentic ykwc from his sifu Cho Hung Choi.
3. he claim his formulae 2014 is most advanced.
4. he claim he know emei, mean only he knows the real wck
5. he claim Cho's family no real ykwc, also no emei, not wck, only his from Cho Hung Choi is real.
6. he claim his discovery on 7 bows.

Hendrik should be very superior in his yk wck because he reach certain level of emie 9 level qi gong. He is younger and taller as compared with Grandmaster Ku. Both from ykwc, one from non-Cho family, and one from Cho family. A suggestion is good on their Kong Sau to see, American ykwc good or Cho's family Ban Chung ykwc good. Hendrik,please take a trip to Malaysia to see Grandmaster Ku again and see who is beter

[tc101]

Finally,

l like to qoute the famous Wing chun kuen saying which Gm Ipman often says
" Studying doesnt discriminate if one is junior or senior in age, the one who has master the art is the teacher."


You quote this but you do not seem to know what it means.

[Guardian1000]

A beginner? So many thing wrong going on here no matter what lineage you are.
No idea of application only some sort of health routine going on here.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tAkNqg1HEE&feature=youtube_gdata

[Guardian1000]

And this is from an inheritor of a system?
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzA3MjUyNDI0.html

[JPinAZ]

A beginner? So many thing wrong going on here no matter what lineage you are.
No idea of application only some sort of health routine going on here.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tAkNqg1HEE&feature=youtube_gdata


And this is from an inheritor of a system?
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzA3MjUyNDI0.html

Wow, those videos are, well.... no need to say anything, they say enough!


Enough information for the Wck researchers, on Yik kam, Cho family, and Emei.

Here I sign off this thread.

LOL, Gets caught in his lies red handed by Ron so runs away. Priceless!

[VT Andy]

From Hong Kong newspaper "Headlines daily",

4月12日
香港頭條日報

勝負都是過眼雲煙
2014/4/11 上午 10:43:10
網誌分類: 生活
　　
最近我在內地跟幾位武術名家交流，他們都說：「你們的詠春拳，發展不錯！但這拳種，只在南方有人識，到了北 方，很多人聞所未聞！」我聽後內心有跟他辯論的衝動，但最後打消念頭。突然記起電影《一代宗師》裏，飾演葉 問的梁朝偉在戲裏說的一段話：「人家說，武學千年，勝負都是過眼雲煙。功夫可以分南北，國家又豈能分南北？ 我們不在意是一招一式，你們在意是整個武林，而我就是整個世界！」我心想：「修文者為求明理不論古今，練武 者追尋實用不分南北。」於是我說：「我們詠春拳，雖在北方剛起步，但現今已傳遍世界！」

詠春拳由葉問宗師南傳發展，短短數十年間，以驚人速度發展。在詠春拳派的支流裏，葉問系統的成績更是一枝獨 秀。

在這趨勢下，確實有很多投機取巧的功夫騙子，搵個輩份高的師傅，先去交幾百元，學幾個月，然後過冷河，返屋 企睇YouTube學齊其他套路，就掛牌收學生！或跟十個、八個師傅學過後，話自己取各家之長 。

練功夫是不能心存坑、蒙、拐、騙、偷，教學更不可以只顧自己「刮龍」，過到海就是神仙，誤人誤 己。

沒恩怨，沒是非，就不是武林！最近我在YouTube看到有位外籍中國人話，要為詠春拳尋根解碼，在網上自 拍視頻說葉問的詠春功夫，是「半桶水不齊全」，是到香港先抄這個、學那個，才修成正果。我認為，他沒確實證 據。

據我所知，這位外籍人士最早亦是葉問詠春拳的傳人，近年才拜另一支流門下。我有責任去調查，對自己對讀者有 個交代。

我早年曾拜訪多條支流的詠春派前輩，我見過葉問佛山的最早期弟子郭富、倫佳師傅，亦拜訪過吳仲素祖師的後人 ，還聽了許多老前輩說有關葉、阮、姚三雄的故事。

經分析後，關於問公的謠傳，便知是以訛傳訛。但不招人妒是庸才，前人已蓋棺定論又何需妄加評說，懂得欣賞別 人，才能顯出包容之量，覺得自己不足，才是成功的開始。Hi Daniel, thank you for sharing. I do not read Chinese but was curious what it say so my friend in NYC did some general translation nfor me.

What sounds like is article is describing kung fu cheaters who acts like Sifu in community. Those types pay some hundreds or so dollars to learn a few thing here and there + watch youtube videos, then sell themselves to the public and claims to learn from many Sifu. Some stranger and foreign Chinese guy claims Yip Man Wing Chun not complete then goes to China to learn from other Sifus. is this about accurate or close?

When my friend was translating to me it really remind me of two such posts of similar content:


http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67313-Latest-WCI-and-WCK-history&p=1264578#post1264578
Some of them wearing a research robe trying to dig something out from some low profile families, and represent them bringing them out to the public. How much do they know why the lineage keeping low profile, not opening up ? Does it intrude the privacy of individual lineages ? Really, the term "Research", what really means ? In What ways ? Doing research means they can do whatever they like to explore IN ANY MEANS to get information IMPROPERLY? Will it hurt those lineages and destroying the individual lineage duties ? For what ? Then makes their own interpretation to show to the public. For their individual benefits or any other HIDDEN means ? It makes no difference like stealing in a improper way. Those people they are not the real researchers, what they behave just like what called MuLamLoShe( A mouse in Martial Arts Community).

Can this type of behaviours exist on the today martial arts researchers ? What the information they get in improper ways, are they good to the martial arts community ?

Finally, RCHS, what type of Chinese characters being used in the Ancient China? When the Simplied characters introduced today commonly used in China? Are there any SI units introduced in 19th century?

Plus this:


http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67313-Latest-WCI-and-WCK-history&p=1264609#post1264609
RCHS = Robert Chu? Hendrik Santo?

"what they behave just like what called MuLamLoShe( A mouse in Martial Arts Community)."

Obviously there are many misrepresentations and incorrect information of WC by Sifu Sergio on his internet channel. It's unfortunate that the public is being misguided about the history of WC.

The dishonesty of these two people has made their SCWC/YKWC masters blood boil. Ironically both have been denounced by their own schools.

Is Sifu Sergio the qualified to represent the WC community as a researcher? Why has much of the content of Sifu Sergio's research been proved incorrect. He is so quick to take anyone at their word for a story. He should do more research into his sources instead of writing stories from these wannabes. For the last few years, Sifu Sergio has discredited Yip Man WC as not a real source of WC. He also represented Chi Sim and Black Flag as the original WC which shortly thereafter was proved false. Now the information about SCWC/YKWC as presented by Robert Chu and Hendrik Santo is also being questioned by their SCWC/YKWC.

And now same language also use by Sifu Lee Kong for third time during my reading:


http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67614-Inside-the-Yik-Kam-Cho-Gar-vs-Hendrik-Santos-CONTROVERSY&p=1267695#post1267695
"Lee Kong said you are a mouse, who likes to take things from others and that you should be ignored completely"
Why lots of different groups saying same thing about Hendrik and Robert Chu? Is all these coincidence, conspiracy, or these groups know what is up about him? Definietly could be more groups saying same thing in private too. My friends in NYC WC community pretty much say same as well “Mu Lam Lo She”. Are they RC + HS the “Stranger and foreign Chinese guy” possibley?

Andy

[VT Andy]

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67313-Latest-WCI-and-WCK-history&p=1264609#post1264609
RCHS = Robert Chu? Hendrik Santo?

"what they behave just like what called MuLamLoShe( A mouse in Martial Arts Community)."

Obviously there are many misrepresentations and incorrect information of WC by Sifu Sergio on his internet channel. It's unfortunate that the public is being misguided about the history of WC.


Is Sifu Sergio the qualified to represent the WC community as a researcher? Why has much of the content of Sifu Sergio's research been proved incorrect. He is so quick to take anyone at their word for a story. He should do more research into his sources instead of writing stories from these wannabes. For the last few years, Sifu Sergio has discredited Yip Man WC as not a real source of WC. He also represented Chi Sim and Black Flag as the original WC which shortly thereafter was proved false. Now the information about SCWC/YKWC as presented by Robert Chu and Hendrik Santo is also being questioned by their SCWC/YKWC.

What do these two guy RC + HS have to do with Sergio? Is strange? Just casual friend they want to share their cheese with or deeper selfish agenda? Why go to him after trying to pull fast one against Sifu Yung? Was Sergio in on the scam crafting by Hendrik trying to twist Kuit and make to suit his personal theory and imagination to rewrite history and tear down others? is that also Sergio agenda too, or are these two mouse taking advantage of SErgio?

I see that on that protecting real shaolin blog http://protectingrealshaolin.wordpress.com/ mentioning Sergio is one who expose frauds Andraes Hoffman and Kenneth Lin by going to source roots of those guys kung fu. I think though he gets fool by these frauds eventually he visiting their Sifu he gets the real story. Then he shows public what the truth is after getting fooled. He was fooled by poser Chi Sim Hoffman with anti Yip Man campaign and then fooled by Black Flag Kenneth Lin and Benny Meng with HKB fake Wing Chun scam. This now happen at least two times to him two strikes but will joining RC and HS become third strike for him to support this Emei fabrication or will he go to visits the elders of Cho Gar Pai for the real research?

[Paddington]

Most of what Hendrik is being accused of is speculation mixed with a heavy dose of ad hominem attacks. I have yet to read a technical and critical discussion of Hendrik's interpretations by the seniors of the lineages VTandy, Daniel Fong and others claim to represent. Nor have I seen such antagonized groups present their interpretations of the kuits. One thing that I do take away from such apparent hostility to Hendrik is that out of all he has said it is likely that he has let slip information and knowledge that they would prefer remained out of the public realm. This is not to say that everything Hendrik has said is right.

[chusauli]

And this is from an inheritor of a system?
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzA3MjUyNDI0.html


Someone has stolen my personal property and has now illegally posted this up without my permission. Please have the moderator delete this post. I will make sure that the proper authorities are notified regarding this crime, and we will find the illegal poster and punish them within the law.

On the other hand, this private footage of mine from 1998 is actual proof that Wayne Yung's claims that I said to him in HK were not correct. Hendrik Santo knows all four sections of the Yik Kam Siu Lien Tao set and inherited the Kuen Kuit and understanding behind it, and needs no Snake Crane Wing Chun to complete a set he already is a master of.

[Paddington]

Someone has stolen my personal property and has now illegally posted this up without my permission. Please have the moderator delete this post. I will make sure that the proper authorities are notified regarding this crime, and we will find the illegal poster and punish them within the law.

On the other hand, this private footage of mine from 1998 is actual proof that Wayne Yung's claims that I said to him in HK were not correct. Hendrik Santo knows all four sections of the Yik Kam Siu Lien Tao set and inherited the Kuen Kuit and understanding behind it, and needs no Snake Crane Wing Chun to complete a set he already is a master of.

Hello Robert. The account name under which that video was uploaded is similar to that used by Hendrik on his youtube channel. So, you are either threatening Hendrik or someone that is impersonating him on youku (unlikely).

EDIT: Hendrik has posted stills of that video on this forum which are of a similar quality to the one linked in this thread.

[Hendrik]

Hello Robert. The account name under which that video was uploaded is similar to that used by Hendrik on his youtube channel. So, you are either threatening Hendrik or someone that is impersonating him on youku (unlikely).

EDIT: Hendrik has posted stills of that video on this forum which are of a similar quality to the one linked in this thread.


1.

It has nothing to do with me.

not my account name.

i have never have post such video and do not have a youku account like that.


2.

everything i post in this forum on Robert has his approval.

[Daniel Fong]

A form complete or incomplete doesn't mean on the form playing shown in the video only. the way how to play and individual technique applications are also the major concerned. RC, according to what you said above and HS email dated 17 Feb to you and sifu Yung, you and HS totally show your dishonesty to Sifu Yung, lying to him, just for SCWC stuff only.


Quote from Facebook :

[ Those claim themself researchers, actually they are collectors. They come to you for what, just for what they want. They can say a lot, just for what the information you have. Baisee, then what they claim sufficient enough, the quit. Then show what they gain to the public. two American Chineses (RCHS), they are really dishonest, and not respect to others. They are really making other real researchers difficult to study from other lineages. Very poor and bad guys. From above, you can see what a fake buddhist said, but is still very active in the public forum to promote his theories and his findings. It shows how a liar behaves on one side and does on the other side.]


Quote from Kung Fu Magazine forum :

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67313-Latest-WCI-and-WCK-history&p=1264443#post1264443

[04-02-2014, 12:00 PM #260 VT Andy VT Andy is offline
Registered User
Join Date
Mar 2014
Posts
25
[[Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Fong View Post
Robert claimed himself reading SCWC secret document. Did his baisee just for the document ? If it is, really sick on him. Today, both these guys betrayed SCWC, and going to Sifu Sergio. There should be a big deal there!!!]]

Hello again, and Chunner.

I just catching up on reading. I think the betrayal is not so much regards to how there is intentional misinterpretation and abuse source material for their own supposed views of history which is the implied agenda, but the betrayal is once someone Baisee then loyalty and character must come first in order to earn deeper knowledge in the art. Someone mentioned that there is in door and in room category of Baisee with many regulations to follow. So Robert and Hendrik Baisee to Sifu Yung then must have lied to him about swearing loyalty which shows very bad character and as Sifu Yung said NO ethics and nonsense. Then by this betrayal is to mean no loyalty and no ethics.

Then next I think Robert and Hendrik run to Sergio with whatever info they got without giving credit back to Sifu Yung. I can definitely see from Sifu Yung standpoint he feels very used and taken advantage by them at least on this point if not more things. If they swore their loyalty to him with baisee then turn around and done those things then I can see why he says betrayed. They did not respect the Baisee regulations of SCWCM is only conclusion.

Hendril and Robert never really respect any Sifu ever do they? Since the days of lee Moy Shan and Moy yat rejecting Robert so he left with incomplete training. He trained a bit in HK and back to the states, eventually hooked up with Hawkins Cheung in LA in late 80’s but friends tell me he didn’t learn the whole system so more incomplete training. Did he ever complete the system under a single sifu from beginning to end? I don’t think so. He is more like a collector so he sticks around only enough to get what he thinks is work and bargains with people who know what he doesn’t and trades to get what he wants. All while also attacking other Sifus and spreading rumors around causing politics and mess. How can anyone take this guy as serious when he demonstrates over and over no commitment? is he a history researcher and WC expert, or information collector with incomplete training? If I want advice and expertise on fixing my car or marriage or Ving Tsun I won’t go to someone with a similar history and education as him.

This guy collects info because his WC has always ever been incomplete so he has to make up his own stuff, take from others. Just looking at this history I don’t think it is far stretch to see he really has no loyalty only to himself. What does that mean? Look at this most recent event with him baisee to Sifu Yung SCWCM. His word will ALWAYS be suspect.

Andy ]

Quote

[Hendrik.
To MeRobert ChuJack Chang
Feb 17
Wayne,

1. Be able to make Happy is a great thing Robert and I will do.

2. Great that you met Sergio and have first hand understanding on him and the possibility for further program. My best wishes for you and him. I am sure there are alots of things you can teaches him on the history and culture of Wck. Also, you guys sure will come up with good videos for Wck history and SCWC to share with the world.

3. I have made my decision to wash my hand on Wck and become a full time Buddhist since my mission in Wck is completed. That is what I like to do here on with lots of good memories in Wck.



Best regards
Hendrik

Sent from my iPad ]

[zuti car]

Hendril and Robert never really respect any Sifu ever do they?

Respect does not go automatically , it should be earned . Why would someone respect anybody just because he or she is a "sifu" . So your logic is , regardless of anything "sifu" should be respected , and that goes only one way , from student to a'sifu" , never anyone , especially "sifus" talk about their respect toward students and other responsibilities .If I pay for the lesson, I am a buyer , there is no need for respect only correct business relationship . In this case I am on Hendrik's side , he has the right to do anything he wants as long as he does not hurt others and he does not owe respect to anyone .

[Minghequan]

1.

It has nothing to do with me.

not my account name.

i have never have post such video and do not have a youku account like that.


2.

everything i post in this forum on Robert has his approval.

That's great Hendrik, good to see you back :D

Two questions:

1/. Did Robert approve your post quoting Lee Kong?

2/. Did Lee Kong approve your post quoting him?

Remember, Lee Kong said:

"Lee Kong said you are a mouse, who likes to take things from others and that you should be ignored completely"

[KPM]

This is really getting quite silly Daniel. Still beating a dead horse. But Ok. I'll answer a few points myself on what little I know. Robert is a big boy and can take up for himself. But he doesn't come here often anymore.


A form complete or incomplete doesn't mean on the form playing shown in the video only. the way how to play and individual technique applications are also the major concerned.

This is true. I guess that's why you have to bring up the "insider info" approach. That way no one will know whether Hendrik is using the super secret knowledge or not, even though it is obvious he knows the whole form. Hard to argue against that one. Hard to know whether it is true or not as well.



RC, according to what you said above and HS email dated 17 Feb to you and sifu Yung, you and HS totally show your dishonesty to Sifu Yung, lying to him, just for SCWC stuff only.

I didn't see a lie in anything you posted. Is it the Hendrik being the "inheritor" of YKWCK part? Did they tell Sifu Yung Hendrik wasn't the "inheritor"? Does "inheritor" have to mean he was the guy put in charge or made "grandmaster" of YKWCK? Or does it just mean he learned the whole system and was authorized to teach it?



Robert claimed himself reading SCWC secret document. Did his baisee just for the document ? If it is, really sick on him. Today, both these guys betrayed SCWC, and going to Sifu Sergio. There should be a big deal there!!!]]


This is the whole problem, isn't??? Sergio posts a video and mentions info from a super secret document and gives credit back to HS and RC but not Sifu Yung. So Sifu Yung is p!ssed and starts this whole smear campaign. That's it, isn't it???? :rolleyes:


Baisee with many regulations to follow. So Robert and Hendrik Baisee to Sifu Yung then must have lied to him about swearing loyalty which shows very bad character and as Sifu Yung said NO ethics and nonsense. Then by this betrayal is to mean no loyalty and no ethics.

So just what are these "Baisee regulations of SCWCM"? Do they say that one must never mention information from the super secret document or share that information with others???


hooked up with Hawkins Cheung in LA in late 80’s but friends tell me he didn’t learn the whole system so more incomplete training.

So you are going by hearsy from your "friends" without even knowing Robert? As far as I know, Hawkins Cheung has had an on-line presence to some extent until recently. He even has a website for his school. He has students that have an on-line presence as well. So if he didn't like what Robert has said or claimed on-line through the years I think he would have spoken up. Robert credits a lot of his knowledge and training to Hawkins Cheung on a regular basis. He will point out to anyone that asks that it was Hawkins Cheung that taught him about "body structure" and actually coined the term. So now you guys are trying to smear Robert's reputation just like you tried to smear Hendrik's by saying he hadn't even completed the YKWCK SLT form, even though that was clearly untrue? And you expect people to believe you now? AS far as completing training....Robert learned both the Yuen Kay Shan and Gu Lao 40 point systems in their entirety as well as Yip Man WCK.



Did he ever complete the system under a single sifu from beginning to end? I don’t think so.

Think whatever you like. But you would be wrong! ;)


All while also attacking other Sifus and spreading rumors around causing politics and mess.

Hold on now! From what I have seen recently, it is you "insider" guys that have been attacking other Sifus (Robert and Hendrik) and spreading rumors (that neither of them had completed any training). Isn't your ENTIRE reason for multiple posts on this forum to "spread rumors around causing politics and mess"????? Because I don't recall having ever seen you guys posting here prior to this.


How can anyone take this guy as serious when he demonstrates over and over no commitment? is he a history researcher and WC expert, or information collector with incomplete training? If I want advice and expertise on fixing my car or marriage or Ving Tsun I won’t go to someone with a similar history and education as him.

How can anyone take YOU "insiders" serious when you repeat the same thing over and over based entirely on facebook posts? How can anyone take YOU serious when your only purpose for posting in our forum seems to be to "spread rumors around causing politics and mess"????





3. I have made my decision to wash my hand on Wck and become a full time Buddhist since my mission in Wck is completed. That is what I like to do here on with lots of good memories in Wck.

Everyone makes hasty comments that they regret later, or decide to change later. Hendrik spoke up a little prematurely about "washing his hands of WCK" and changed his mind. So what? Its not like he signed a contract or anything! :rolleyes:

[Hendrik]

KPM and all wcners,


My last post on this issue.


1.
This is the whole problem, isn't??? Sergio posts a video and mentions info from a super secret document and gives credit back to HS and RC but not Sifu Yung. So Sifu Yung is p!ssed and starts this whole smear campaign. That's it, isn't it????



I have only share with Sergio , The 2013 Italy New hero Magazine article which co author by Wayne Yung and myself, a public printed information, Nothing else.

As for how Sergio wants to give credits, that is Sergio decision .



2.
Baisee with many regulations to follow. So Robert and Hendrik Baisee to Sifu Yung then must have lied to him about swearing loyalty which shows very bad character and as Sifu Yung said NO ethics and nonsense. Then by this betrayal is to mean no loyalty and no ethics.



I have never Baisee to any Sifu Yung. That never happen in reality .

I had publicly announced in this and other Wck forums ,

I clearly isolate myself from ANY SCWC document or any Secret which is not public known or public domain information.





3.

What I have shared with Wcners are:

A, my inheritance of YKWCK with the hand writing letter of encouragement to share to the western world from my late sifu, Gm Cho Hung Choy himself .

And.

B, My own finding from my research.


Anyone can go to all my posts and verify them




4. The mother art of my YK WCK is Emei 12 zhuang and Fujian white crane.

My body and mind is condition and develop based on these two mother arts. Anyone can take my Wck videos and Wck posts out there , a huge collection since decade ago, to examine the DNA or my art and see for themselves.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1267792]KPM and all wcners,


My last post on this issue.


1.
This is the whole problem, isn't??? Sergio posts a video and mentions info from a super secret document and gives credit back to HS and RC but not Sifu Yung. So Sifu Yung is p!ssed and starts this whole smear campaign. That's it, isn't it????



I have only share with Sergio , The 2013 Italy New hero Magazine article which co author by Wayne Yung and myself, a public printed information, Nothing else.

As for how Sergio wants to give credits, that is Sergio decision .
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A possible source of the problem:

Normally a coauthored article involves equal rights for authors on reproducing the material or content in print.


I have no connection with Hendrik's art or Yung's art.

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1267792]KPM and all wcners,


My last post on this issue.


1.
This is the whole problem, isn't??? Sergio posts a video and mentions info from a super secret document and gives credit back to HS and RC but not Sifu Yung. So Sifu Yung is p!ssed and starts this whole smear campaign. That's it, isn't it????



I have only share with Sergio , The 2013 Italy New hero Magazine article which co author by Wayne Yung and myself, a public printed information, Nothing else.

As for how Sergio wants to give credits, that is Sergio decision .
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A possible source of the problem:

Normally a coauthored article involves equal rights for authors on reproducing the material or content in print.


I have no connection with Hendrik's art or Yung's art.



It is a months old public release magazine article, which I direct Sergio.

Similar to many times, I direct those who is interested in this forum to that article in my precious posts in here.
I thread Everyone equally.

As for who wants to give or not giving credits after the reader read the article . It is not my concern.

[Minghequan]

12:26 AM Hendrik:


KPM and all wcners,


My last post on this issue.


Great!


03:25 AM

It is a months old public release magazine article, which I direct Sergio.

Similar to many times, I direct those who is interested in this forum to that article in my precious posts in here.
I thread Everyone equally.

As for who wants to give or not giving credits after the reader read the article . It is not my concern.

??? WTF?

Hendrik, you cannot even be true to yourself and your own word!

You said quite clearly that this would be your "last post on this issue"

Only to post ........... yet again!

[kentchang]

That's great Hendrik, good to see you back :D

Two questions:

1/. Did Robert approve your post quoting Lee Kong?

2/. Did Lee Kong approve your post quoting him?

Remember, Lee Kong said:

"Lee Kong said you are a mouse, who likes to take things from others and that you should be ignored completely"

As you know there are many people on this earth with the same name. Is this the same person Lee Kong that you mentioned in this link?
專訪福建永春白鶴拳 李剛師傅(545)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywjBKtNtxfQ

[Minghequan]

Yes it is. He is also referred to as Gang Li

[chusauli]

For the record, I never did Baisi to Wayne Yung, but did so to Law Chiu Wing, head of the Law Family Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun.

[chusauli]

For the record, I never did Baisi to Wayne Yung, but did so to Law Chiu Wing, head of the Law Family Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun.

[KPM]

So let me get this straight. Sifu Yung's supporters have posted multiple times saying:

1. Hendrik Baisi'd to Sifu Yung, which Hendrik says is not true.

2. Robert Chu Baisi'd to Sifu Yung, which Robert says is not true.

3. Hendrik did not learn the entire YKWCK SLT, which is not true. We have seen footage of Hendrik performing the entire form so we know this is not true.

4. Robert never completed any WCK system, which is not true. Robert has produced students that know the entire WCK system, so he obviously knows it himself!

5. Hendrik and Robert shared information from a super secret insider document to Sergio, which is not true as Hendrik points out that all the information came from a magazine article published in the public domain and co-authored by Sifu Yung.

So, to me, the one coming out looking bad here is.....Sifu Wayne Yung. So maybe you guys should call off your smear campaign, because it isn't going too well! ;)

[Minghequan]

Hey Keith, Here's a novel thought for you ... Follow your own advice and "Just let it go!"

Can you do that?

[Daniel Fong]

Facebook posting from Sifu Wayne Yung:

Please note that Mr. Law Chiu Wing had published a public announcement in the newspapers for 3 days in Hong Kong at the end of 2008. He got fully retired and anything related to SCWC stuff has no longer related to him after those announcments. Then the SCWC Mun was formally reopen to the public in the beginning in 2009.

Baisee is very serious to a kung fu practitioner. Individual famillies have its own baisee culture. Robert Chu claimed he baisee to Mr. Law Chiu Wing.

1. How does Robert Chu know Mr. Law Chiu Wing ?
2. How many times he meet with Mr. Law Chiu Wing ?
3. How much Robert Chu knowing Mr. Law Chiu Wing and how much Mr. Law Chiu Wing knowing Robert Chu?

4. Which day Robert Chu did baisee ?
5. Did Robert Chu submit a yellow letter and red letter, swear the Mun rules in front of all SiHingDais ?
6. Did Robert Chu make a bow to the Mun ancestors wood ?
7. How many SCWC Mun people knowing Robert Chu baisee Mr. Law Chiu Wing ?
8. How many minutes(not hours) Robert Chu spend with Mr. Law Chiu Wing after baisee?

A mouse is a mouse. How much Robert Chu knows SCWC after he claimed baisee. His baisee is for what ? Why his name not listed in the transmission chart because Mr. Law Chiu Wing no more relationship to the SCWC after his public announcements. All the names listed there are before Mr. Law Chiu Wing getting retired in 2008. The name card of Mr. Law Chiu Wing is never mentioning any SCWC there, just Wing Chun Kuen only.


A claim on the incorrect information had been provided by Robert Chu that I never said he baisee to me. Also, Mr. Law Chiu Wing is not the head of Law Family Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun since 2009.

{ For the record, I never did Baisi to Wayne Yung, but did so to Law Chiu Wing, head of the Law Family Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun.
Robert Chu, PhD, L.Ac., QME
chusauli@gmail.com }

[zuti car]

Facebook posting from Sifu Wayne Yung:

Please note that Mr. Law Chiu Wing had published a public announcement in the newspapers for 3 days in Hong Kong at the end of 2008. He got fully retired and anything related to SCWC stuff has no longer related to him after those announcments. Then the SCWC Mun was formally reopen to the public in the beginning in 2009.

Baisee is very serious to a kung fu practitioner. Individual famillies have its own baisee culture. Robert Chu claimed he baisee to Mr. Law Chiu Wing.

1. How does Robert Chu know Mr. Law Chiu Wing ?
2. How many times he meet with Mr. Law Chiu Wing ?
3. How much Robert Chu knowing Mr. Law Chiu Wing and how much Mr. Law Chiu Wing knowing Robert Chu?

4. Which day Robert Chu did baisee ?
5. Did Robert Chu submit a yellow letter and red letter, swear the Mun rules in front of all SiHingDais ?
6. Did Robert Chu make a bow to the Mun ancestors wood ?
7. How many SCWC Mun people knowing Robert Chu baisee Mr. Law Chiu Wing ?
8. How many minutes(not hours) Robert Chu spend with Mr. Law Chiu Wing after baisee?

A mouse is a mouse. How much Robert Chu knows SCWC after he claimed baisee. His baisee is for what ? Why his name not listed in the transmission chart because Mr. Law Chiu Wing no more relationship to the SCWC after his public announcements. All the names listed there are before Mr. Law Chiu Wing getting retired in 2008. The name card of Mr. Law Chiu Wing is never mentioning any SCWC there, just Wing Chun Kuen only.


A claim on the incorrect information had been provided by Robert Chu that I never said he baisee to me. Also, Mr. Law Chiu Wing is not the head of Law Family Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun since 2009.

{ For the record, I never did Baisi to Wayne Yung, but did so to Law Chiu Wing, head of the Law Family Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun.
Robert Chu, PhD, L.Ac., QME
chusauli@gmail.com }

I have never heard about yellow envelope , what is that for ? I know what are red and white envelope for , but yellow , this first I hear about that .

[KPM]

Hey Keith, Here's a novel thought for you ... Follow your own advice and "Just let it go!"

Can you do that?

Yeah, I can do that. Robert seems to have been checking in here. So he can take up for himself.

[Minghequan]

KPM, before you go .... can I ask what if any is your connection to Robert, Jim & Hendrik???

[KPM]

KPM, before you go .... can I ask what if any is your connection to Robert, Jim & Hendrik???

Not that its really any of your business, but sure. I have nothing to hide. I studied PSWCK with Jim back in 2003/2004 timeframe. I have never met either Hendrik or Robert face to face, but I have known them both "on-line" for over 10 years now. I have spoken with Robert over the phone several times and he has given me good advice. I have read all his articles he has written for various sources over the years and like what he says. I know all three of them much better than these "insiders" that are persisting in their smear campaign. So who am I going to believe?

[Hendrik]

KPM, before you go .... can I ask what if any is your connection to Robert, Jim & Hendrik???

KPM Is a person i have never meet and I don't have to agree with , but can reason with rationally.

He doesn't smearing and attacking me similar to you , who hates me because I don't give you what you demand.

Your behavior Is what I consider as bully and very sick behavior. I really doubt how can you teach good martial art to others with your type of mind set And logic.

[zuti car]

KPM Is a person i have never meet and I don't have to agree with , but can reason with rationally.

He doesn't smearing and attacking me similar to you , who hates me because I don't give you what you demand.

Your behavior Is what I consider as bully and very sick behavior. I really doubt how can you teach good martial art to others with your type of mind set And logic.

You don't have to give him what he wants but you could give me the address of that museum we talked about .

[Hendrik]

You don't have to give him what he wants but you could give me the address of that museum we talked about .

I would not ruin Jim Rosalendo coming reports . I let him or others do it .

[zuti car]

I would not ruin Jim Rosalendo coming reports . I let him or others do it .

It is not about Jim or his reports or anything that is going on today , it is about the book nobody can find and same book is your key evidence . So, stop avoiding the answer and give exact location of the book .

[Hendrik]

It is not about Jim or his reports or anything that is going on today , it is about the book nobody can find and same book is your key evidence . So, stop avoiding the answer and give exact location of the book .


The Gatekerper of the emei 12 zhuang is there with Jim and team. The book, the condition of the book,...the location of the book .etc were discussed in details, the art DNA is reveal, many have attainted a higher level. The connection between emei 12z and wing chun 1848 were discussed in details.

I let those who has first hand direct encounter to reply it.

[zuti car]

The Gatekerper of the emei 12 zhuang is there with Jim and team. The book, the condition of the book,...the location of the book .etc were discussed in details, the art DNA is reveal, many have attainted a higher level. The connection between emei 12z and wing chun 1848 were discussed in details.

I let those who has first hand direct encounter to reply it.

You just avoiding the answer again. You pulled that book as your evidence ,and now you re refusing to give exact location of the book .Why? Why is such a problem to give simple address?

[VT Andy]

You just avoiding the answer again. You pulled that book as your evidence ,and now you re refusing to give exact location of the book .Why? Why is such a problem to give simple address?Hendrik old hat tricks

Let us make some facts clear.

1. In Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun there is no HARDWARE of Emei. NONE.
2. Yik Kam Wng Chun deny and contradict any claim connection to Emei 12 palm
3. Hendrik did NOT learn any Emei Kung FU from Cho Hung Choy
4. Hendrik did not learn any Emei Kung Fu from any Yik Kam member
5. GM Fu is not a Wing Chun guy, only making obersvation on Kuit as presented by Hendrik to him
6. Hendrik and Jim using “Similarity” concept to draw connection but is fundamental flawed
7. Many other Wing Chun groups make no supportive claims to Emei connection
8. Emei is internal art having overlapping Kuit to other internal arts as well

Stop deny these facts. Hendrik making the claim but he is not Gatekeeper of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun. He is disciple of Cho Hung Choy who was NOT successor or Gatekeeper of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun. Cho Hung Choy not an authority to declare Hendrik Santos as Successor and Gatekeeper of Yik Kam Cho gar clan. He is only authority to represent Cho Hung Choy Kung Fu.

Hendrik’s Wing Chun comes from Yik Kam Cho Gar clan and the elders of that clan refute hendrik’s claim. Hendrik is not recognize or acknowledge their authority and statements but make appeal to another Gatekeeper instead who not trained in Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun hardware.

Hypocrisy is that some dismiss importance of Yik Kam Gatekeeper and insider, but then use Gatekeeper and Insider of other art as scapegoat to try proving a theory. What is reality even today still is insider information common culture among police, detective, military, govt. Stop with insider “BS” and having open border society let people deal with info as they see fit? Then see how fast our reality change. You can continue live your daily fantasyland peaceful IPhone Samsung world because you don’t know what they know.

Fact is Hendrik cannot represent true Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun. Hendrik cannot represent true Emei Sup Yi Zhuang. Hendrik cannot represent true White Crane Kung Fu. Yet he is the one imagining and fabricating such ridiculous claims playing peoples ignorance. If hendrik is not representative then it means he is a mouse with a 7-11 mouth.

As far as similar Kuit between different kung fu is nothing special at all. Want to talk DNA with mouse? Difference between different kung fu is like difference between human and monkey. Also human DNA and banana DNA have similarity too. Strange? Here is facts how similar our DNA are to other things:

Cat: 90%
Cow: 80%
Mouse: 75%
Fruit Fly: 60%
Banana: 50%

http://genecuisine.blogspot.com/2011/03/human-dna-similarities-to-chimps-and.html

Similar Kuit argument is giant fallacy use by Hendrik.

False – Hendrik Santos is sole successor of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun by his Sifu Cho Hung Choy.
False – Hendrik Santos publicly claim Ermei 12 palms system is the mother art of all Wing Chun.
False – Hendrik Santos publicly claim if WCK is without Ermei 12 palms system it is not WCK.
False – Hendrik Santos publicly claim all WCK without the core of Ermei will die out between one generation and 30 yrs time.
False – Hendrik Santos just sharing his story unbias leave it up to public to accept

Ad hominem claims? Don’t think so. Good time at GM Fu workshop is great. Using him for personal agenda to redefining what is Wing Chun is devious and irresponsible. (Hendrik = no Wing Chun expert) + (GM Fu = no Wing Chun anything) + (overlapping arts’ Kuit) + (playing public ignorance) = Mouse in Community.

The connection of Wing Chun to Emei is as common as Wing Chun to Tai Chi to Baqua to other internal arts, but Hendrik is become like Sky is Falling Alarmist with this bullsh!t. Lee Kong is correct – Hendrik is mouse to be ignored.

[Hendrik]

You agenda is very clear now.

Try to set me up with others.
Try to discredit me due to fear of the real information on Wck share to public .

Too bad, both agenda will never success.




Hendrik old hat tricks

Let us make some facts clear.

1. In Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun there is no HARDWARE of Emei. NONE.
2. Yik Kam Wng Chun deny and contradict any claim connection to Emei 12 palm
3. Hendrik did NOT learn any Emei Kung FU from Cho Hung Choy
4. Hendrik did not learn any Emei Kung Fu from any Yik Kam member
5. GM Fu is not a Wing Chun guy, only making obersvation on Kuit as presented by Hendrik to him
6. Hendrik and Jim using “Similarity” concept to draw connection but is fundamental flawed
7. Many other Wing Chun groups make no supportive claims to Emei connection
8. Emei is internal art having overlapping Kuit to other internal arts as well

Stop deny these facts. Hendrik making the claim but he is not Gatekeeper of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun. He is disciple of Cho Hung Choy who was NOT successor or Gatekeeper of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun. Cho Hung Choy not an authority to declare Hendrik Santos as Successor and Gatekeeper of Yik Kam Cho gar clan. He is only authority to represent Cho Hung Choy Kung Fu.

Hendrik’s Wing Chun comes from Yik Kam Cho Gar clan and the elders of that clan refute hendrik’s claim. Hendrik is not recognize or acknowledge their authority and statements but make appeal to another Gatekeeper instead who not trained in Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun hardware.

Hypocrisy is that some dismiss importance of Yik Kam Gatekeeper and insider, but then use Gatekeeper and Insider of other art as scapegoat to try proving a theory. What is reality even today still is insider information common culture among police, detective, military, govt. Stop with insider “BS” and having open border society let people deal with info as they see fit? Then see how fast our reality change. You can continue live your daily fantasyland peaceful IPhone Samsung world because you don’t know what they know.

Fact is Hendrik cannot represent true Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun. Hendrik cannot represent true Emei Sup Yi Zhuang. Hendrik cannot represent true White Crane Kung Fu. Yet he is the one imagining and fabricating such ridiculous claims playing peoples ignorance. If hendrik is not representative then it means he is a mouse with a 7-11 mouth.

As far as similar Kuit between different kung fu is nothing special at all. Want to talk DNA with mouse? Difference between different kung fu is like difference between human and monkey. Also human DNA and banana DNA have similarity too. Strange? Here is facts how similar our DNA are to other things:

Cat: 90%
Cow: 80%
Mouse: 75%
Fruit Fly: 60%
Banana: 50%

http://genecuisine.blogspot.com/2011/03/human-dna-similarities-to-chimps-and.html

Similar Kuit argument is giant fallacy use by Hendrik.

False – Hendrik Santos is sole successor of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun by his Sifu Cho Hung Choy.
False – Hendrik Santos publicly claim Ermei 12 palms system is the mother art of all Wing Chun.
False – Hendrik Santos publicly claim if WCK is without Ermei 12 palms system it is not WCK.
False – Hendrik Santos publicly claim all WCK without the core of Ermei will die out between one generation and 30 yrs time.
False – Hendrik Santos just sharing his story unbias leave it up to public to accept

Ad hominem claims? Don’t think so. Good time at GM Fu workshop is great. Using him for personal agenda to redefining what is Wing Chun is devious and irresponsible. (Hendrik = no Wing Chun expert) + (GM Fu = no Wing Chun anything) + (overlapping arts’ Kuit) + (playing public ignorance) = Mouse in Community.

The connection of Wing Chun to Emei is as common as Wing Chun to Tai Chi to Baqua to other internal arts, but Hendrik is become like Sky is Falling Alarmist with this bullsh!t. Lee Kong is correct – Hendrik is mouse to be ignored.

[VT Andy]

You agenda is very clear now.

Try to set me up with others.
Try to discredit me due to fear of the real information on Wck share to public .

Too bad, both agenda will never success.Your Agenda is clear too. Smear and twist Wing Chun art of all others.

You have no credibility and discredit yourself.

Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun denounce you.

White Crane Lee Kong denounce you.

GM Fu is innocent of your agenda but you using him to prove your imagination.

You never refute the facts only dismiss and run away like a mouse from a cat. Are you going to address this or dismiss this?

Fact – Cho Hung Choy not family member of Cho Gar family
Fact – difference in knowledge impart to students vs closed door disciples
Fact – Cho Hung Choy not learn original family art of Cho Gar family
Fact – Cho Hung Choy only receive modified knowledge from Cho Gar original art
Fact – Cho Gar family insiders denounce Hendrik’s claim of Yik Kam Cho Gar kung fu have anything to do with Emei 12 Palms system.

1. There is no Ermei 12 Zhuang in original art and teachings of Ban Chung Zheng Dam Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun
2. Cho Hung Choy did not learn Ermei Sup Yi Zhuang, and never was a Yik Kam Cho Gar successor.
3. Hendrik did not learn Ermei Sup Yi Zhuang from Cho Hung Choy
4. Hendrik refuse to accept these facts from actual insiders of core Cho Gar family
5. Hendrik either does not know he only learned modified Cho Gar or refuse to be honest about it
6. Hendrik look to fill his modified Cho Gar Wing Chun by mimicking Ermei books and internet video
7. Hendrik is sole person fabricating and imagining connection of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun to outsider arts
8. Hendrik is reinventing Yik Kam and Cho Gar family history and spreading it to community
9. Hendrik avoids direct questions and distracts others to prove his ideas for him as form of crafting deception
10. Hendrik using GM Fu as scapegoat and goose chase for avoiding public heat
11. Hendrik efforts is denounce by his original ancestor clan who still exist today
12. Hendrik efforts denounce by Snake and Crane clan for misusing and twisting their Kuit for his personal theory
13. Hendrik rely on fabrication and imagination for 30 years but avoiding Cho Family members all this time
14. Hendrik cannot name any Ermei Snake Crane Sifu he get legit training from to back up his 30 years of imagination
15. Hendrik always always overstep and try to speak for all Wing Chun clans 24/7 broken record until people believe him
16. Hendrik not qualified to represent Ban Chung Zheng Dam Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun Clan and their Kung Fu
17. Hendrik is spreading lies about Ban Chung Zheng Dam Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun Clan and their Kung Fu
18. Hendrik not qualified to represent other Wing Chun clans
19. Hendrik only endorse by Cho Hung Choy to spread Cho Hung Choy’s teachings
20. Hendrik is self appoint researcher and self appoint successor of Cho Gar, not recognize by anyone.
21. Hendrik is not honest in his misleading the public pretending to wear Buddhist robe and lying about being Yik Kam Cho Gar successor.

[VT Andy]

You agenda is very clear now.

Try to set me up with others.
Try to discredit me due to fear of the real information on Wck share to public .

Too bad, both agenda will never success.How about address this post too?


Hendrik old hat tricks

Let us make some facts clear.

1. In Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun there is no HARDWARE of Emei. NONE.
2. Yik Kam Wng Chun deny and contradict any claim connection to Emei 12 palm
3. Hendrik did NOT learn any Emei Kung FU from Cho Hung Choy
4. Hendrik did not learn any Emei Kung Fu from any Yik Kam member
5. GM Fu is not a Wing Chun guy, only making obersvation on Kuit as presented by Hendrik to him
6. Hendrik and Jim using “Similarity” concept to draw connection but is fundamental flawed
7. Many other Wing Chun groups make no supportive claims to Emei connection
8. Emei is internal art having overlapping Kuit to other internal arts as well

Stop deny these facts. Hendrik making the claim but he is not Gatekeeper of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun. He is disciple of Cho Hung Choy who was NOT successor or Gatekeeper of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun. Cho Hung Choy not an authority to declare Hendrik Santos as Successor and Gatekeeper of Yik Kam Cho gar clan. He is only authority to represent Cho Hung Choy Kung Fu.

Hendrik’s Wing Chun comes from Yik Kam Cho Gar clan and the elders of that clan refute hendrik’s claim. Hendrik is not recognize or acknowledge their authority and statements but make appeal to another Gatekeeper instead who not trained in Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun hardware.

Hypocrisy is that some dismiss importance of Yik Kam Gatekeeper and insider, but then use Gatekeeper and Insider of other art as scapegoat to try proving a theory. What is reality even today still is insider information common culture among police, detective, military, govt. Stop with insider “BS” and having open border society let people deal with info as they see fit? Then see how fast our reality change. You can continue live your daily fantasyland peaceful IPhone Samsung world because you don’t know what they know.

Fact is Hendrik cannot represent true Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun. Hendrik cannot represent true Emei Sup Yi Zhuang. Hendrik cannot represent true White Crane Kung Fu. Yet he is the one imagining and fabricating such ridiculous claims playing peoples ignorance. If hendrik is not representative then it means he is a mouse with a 7-11 mouth.

As far as similar Kuit between different kung fu is nothing special at all. Want to talk DNA with mouse? Difference between different kung fu is like difference between human and monkey. Also human DNA and banana DNA have similarity too. Strange? Here is facts how similar our DNA are to other things:

Cat: 90%
Cow: 80%
Mouse: 75%
Fruit Fly: 60%
Banana: 50%

http://genecuisine.blogspot.com/2011...himps-and.html

Similar Kuit argument is giant fallacy use by Hendrik.

False – Hendrik Santos is sole successor of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun by his Sifu Cho Hung Choy.
False – Hendrik Santos publicly claim Ermei 12 palms system is the mother art of all Wing Chun.
False – Hendrik Santos publicly claim if WCK is without Ermei 12 palms system it is not WCK.
False – Hendrik Santos publicly claim all WCK without the core of Ermei will die out between one generation and 30 yrs time.
False – Hendrik Santos just sharing his story unbias leave it up to public to accept

Ad hominem claims? Don’t think so. Good time at GM Fu workshop is great. Using him for personal agenda to redefining what is Wing Chun is devious and irresponsible. (Hendrik = no Wing Chun expert) + (GM Fu = no Wing Chun anything) + (overlapping arts’ Kuit) + (playing public ignorance) = Mouse in Community.

The connection of Wing Chun to Emei is as common as Wing Chun to Tai Chi to Baqua to other internal arts, but Hendrik is become like Sky is Falling Alarmist with this bullsh!t. Lee Kong is correct – Hendrik is mouse to be ignored. Where is your critical thinking Hendrik?

[Minghequan]

Hendrik, I don't "hate you" at all. I just don't trust you to tell the truth its as simple as that so stop trying to play the "poor little victim me" card. Its not working!

Two questions:

1/. Did Robert approve your post quoting Lee Kong?

2/. Did Lee Kong approve your post quoting him?

Remember, Lee Kong said:

"Lee Kong said you are a mouse, who likes to take things from others and that you should be ignored completely"

[Daniel Fong]

Facebook posting from Sifu Wayne Yung:

Please note that Mr. Law Chiu Wing had published a public announcement in the newspapers for 3 days in Hong Kong at the end of 2008. He got fully retired and anything related to SCWC stuff has no longer related to him after those announcments. Then the SCWC Mun was formally reopen to the public in the beginning in 2009.

Baisee is very serious to a kung fu practitioner. Individual famillies have its own baisee culture. Robert Chu claimed he baisee to Mr. Law Chiu Wing.

1. How does Robert Chu know Mr. Law Chiu Wing ?
2. How many times he meet with Mr. Law Chiu Wing ?
3. How much Robert Chu knowing Mr. Law Chiu Wing and how much Mr. Law Chiu Wing knowing Robert Chu?

4. Which day Robert Chu did baisee ?
5. Did Robert Chu submit a yellow letter and red letter, swear the Mun rules in front of all SiHingDais ?
6. Did Robert Chu make a bow to the Mun ancestors wood ?
7. How many SCWC Mun people knowing Robert Chu baisee Mr. Law Chiu Wing ?
8. How many minutes(not hours) Robert Chu spend with Mr. Law Chiu Wing after baisee?

A mouse is a mouse. How much Robert Chu knows SCWC after he claimed baisee. His baisee is for what ? Why his name not listed in the transmission chart because Mr. Law Chiu Wing no more relationship to the SCWC after his public announcements. All the names listed there are before Mr. Law Chiu Wing getting retired in 2008. The name card of Mr. Law Chiu Wing is never mentioning any SCWC there, just Wing Chun Kuen only.


A claim on the incorrect information had been provided by Robert Chu that I never said he baisee to me. Also, Mr. Law Chiu Wing is not the head of Law Family Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun since 2009.

{ For the record, I never did Baisi to Wayne Yung, but did so to Law Chiu Wing, head of the Law Family Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun.
Robert Chu, PhD, L.Ac., QME
chusauli@gmail.com }

More from Sifu Wayne Yung on Facebook :

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?55637-snake-and-crane-wing-chun&p=969068#post969068

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kungfumagazine.com%2Fforu m%2Fshowthread.php%3F55637-snake-and-crane-wing-chun&h=HAQFlr5lo

Robert Chu did say bad on SCWC in 2009 and 2011 in the above thread in Kung Fu magazine forum. Also, he didn't respect our kuit, Lim Tau Song, where the thrird statement talking about the power Chu Jin. He laughed at and saying the Jin was from his Chu's family. He made me upset a lot at that moment. Today, he claimed he did baisee to Law Chiu Wing, head of the SCWC Mun. However, my sifu getting retired already, and no more deal with SCWC in his public announcement in 2008. Few years ago, what he did on SCWC in the Kung Fu magazine forum not respect to, but today, eager to be a SCWC Mun disciple. Now, he should be happy on the disciple of Mr. Law Chiu Wing, but regret not to be a disciple of SCWC Mun today.

[anerlich]

Hendrik Santos publicly claim all WCK without the core of Ermei will die out between one generation and 30 yrs time.

If this thread is one of the throes of its slow death, then it definitely deserves to die.

Basically WGAF about what any of these doofuses claim.

AS Kurt Osiander said, "Go train".

[Daniel Fong]

Hendrik Santos publicly claim all WCK without the core of Emei will die out between one generation and 30 yrs time.


Hendrik, how many generations or how many 30 years passed since 1848 ? According to what you said, today there should have no wck, because all without the core of Emei since 1848. Without the core of Emei, Yik Kam died out, Cho family die out, Cho Hung Choy died out. Today, only Hendrik is lucky, only he knows the core of Emei, he is the only one who know wck, not just ykwc only

Is the ykwc kuit provided by Hendrik getting proved ? Why there are so much difference from Cho's family ? Did he make changes on his kuits look like similar to the Emei kuits, like what he changed the wording on SCWC kuit to suit his emei ? Who knows.

On marketing, GM Fu of course will say ykwc kuit look very similar to Emei, to attract more wck people to go to Emei. They have mutual benefits and their agenda clear there. The MIT emei qigong workshop is definitely a marketing strategy show only.

[theo]

Both Emei writing and the SLT kuit have been passed down and separately preserved in the Emei and Cho family. From Jim's report, GM Fu confirms the YK SLT kuit contains Emei kuit, therefore 1848 YK SLT contains Emei. Separate writing from two different sources found to contain the same content, in 1848.

Hendrik has already explained some differences of his kuit and other Cho family kuit in previous threads. The example he showed had CLF kuit in there. It's possible the kuits identified as Emei by GM Fu likely exist in other Cho family branch kuits as well, but that they added to them, or took some out, etc.

GM Fu is saying it is Emei because it matches the Emei writing. Now you're trying to make him look bad for telling the truth?


Hendrik, how many generations or how many 30 years passed since 1848 ? According to what you said, today there should have no wck, because all without the core of Emei since 1848. Without the core of Emei, Yik Kam died out, Cho family die out, Cho Hung Choy died out. Today, only Hendrik is lucky, only he knows the core of Emei, he is the only one who know wck, not just ykwc only

Is the ykwc kuit provided by Hendrik getting proved ? Why there are so much difference from Cho's family ? Did he make changes on his kuits look like similar to the Emei kuits, like what he changed the wording on SCWC kuit to suit his emei ? Who knows.

On marketing, GM Fu of course will say ykwc kuit look very similar to Emei, to attract more wck people to go to Emei. They have mutual benefits and their agenda clear there. The MIT emei qigong workshop is definitely a marketing strategy show only.

[Cho Gar]

Now, I don't want to get into this hendrik bashing thing because I've got no interest in it but I just wanted to make something clear-
The part of our kuit that hendrik is telling you came from CLF is translated as something like " bong São whips like a dragons tail" or something similar.
Now does that sound more like CLF or Wing Chun?

[HybridWarrior]

Basically WGAF about what any of these doofuses claim.


Wise words!!!!

[PalmStriker]

Now, I don't want to get into this hendrik bashing thing because I've got no interest in it but I just wanted to make something clear-
The part of our kuit that hendrik is telling you came from CLF is translated as something like " bong São whips like a dragons tail" or something similar.
Now does that sound more like CLF or Wing Chun?
:) So true, bong sao. Yui Choi lineage knows this also.

[FongSung]

Now, I don't want to get into this hendrik bashing thing because I've got no interest in it but I just wanted to make something clear-
The part of our kuit that hendrik is telling you came from CLF is translated as something like " bong São whips like a dragons tail" or something similar.
Now does that sound more like CLF or Wing Chun?

As I mentioned here:
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67563-ermei-snake-oil-salesman&p=1267011#post1267011

Judge for yourself:
念 頭 膀 手 龍 擺 尾
Lin tau bong2 sau2 lung4 baai2 mei5
The idea of Bong Sau is like a dragon flipping/swaying its tail

落 睜 夾 膀 虎 跳 蹄
Lok6 jang1 gip6 bong2 fu2 tiu3 tai4
Lower and close in your elbows like a tiger ready to pounce forward

二 字 拑 陽 力 滾 身
Yi6 ji6 kim yeung4 lik6 kwan2 san1
The character 2 clamping stance will give you yang energy throughout your body - (Does anyone recognise this from some recent youtube video's )

Many southern arts use this phrase 龍 擺 尾 in different context's.


The most important thing to remember is that kuit is a learn aid helping a student to remember what he is taught by his sifu.
IMHO It is not necessary to have the kuit to learn from your sifu. But you need your sifu to learn from the kuit to understand the context and meaning meant by the writer.

At the end of the day it has to work for you and you need to understand why and what you are doing if you have had to go to other systems to make sense of it and it works for that great.
Where it comes from, when it was written and by whom will not help your progress understanding what works for you will. Simple as that IMO.

All this ruckus and name calling about Yik Kam / Cho Ga /SCWC/ SLT Kuit etc is just a storm in a teacup and not benefiting anyone's progress and development.
If you agree with it use it if not forget it.

As for hiding and being "secret in-door people" that is far from the truth we are very open these days we just don't have much interest in forums and trying to prove anything to others.
If anyone is interest in our system of Ban Chung Wing Chun and happen to be travelling through Singapore feel free to contact me to touch hands, yam cha or whatever. My skill is not so good but I can give you a taste of what we do. I am not interested in video-ing or celebrities just people wanting to exchange.

Carlos Kennerley
Carlos_kennerley@hotmail.com

[Hendrik]

Now, I don't want to get into this hendrik bashing thing because I've got no interest in it but I just wanted to make something clear-
The part of our kuit that hendrik is telling you came from CLF is translated as something like " bong São whips like a dragons tail" or something similar.
Now does that sound more like CLF or Wing Chun?


Look at the attached photo of a version of Cho family SNT kuit .


Aware of it or not, There are signatures from both CLF and Emei 12 zhuang.


0. The translation of the kuit is

Nim tao (SNT) bong sau dragon wiggle tail.

1.
When Frank the CLF sifu can identify it, one better admit it. To argue it just to put one into a stuck position.

2.
There are kuits in this photo which is from the YKSLT full kuit which I inherit from my sifu lineage. And these are from emei 12 zhuang.

3. Now the YKSLT full kuit and set has been identified and verify to be Emei 12 zhuang related. By the Emei 12 zhuang gate keeper, with his signature. It is what it is. One needs to accept it.



It doesn't matter it is me or any grandmaster or any inheritor or anyone.

When the evidences is from CLF one admit it, when it is from Emei 12 Zhuang one admit it.
To not aware of it is not sin, to deny the facts will put one in the bad position such as Closing one ears stealing a bell. advance transitional Chinese martial artists will know the facts.


Why is it so difficult to accept Emei 12 zhuang and CLF elements exist in the above kuit?

Didnt it is know in the history of Cho family consist of evolution of Gm Cho Dak Shing who fuse CLF with WCK ?
many set created by him has both CLF and Wing Chun kuen signature. iE the Jeet kuen or joint fist set where it switch between CLF move and Wing Chun kuen move back and forth?



Now the YKSLT kuit and set from my sifu lineage has been proven to be emei 12 zhuang and white crane based. No content of CLF.
We know it is the pre Cho Dak Shing Era Yik kam teaching .
That is good news for every wcners and Cho family members. It is a piece of intangible culture heritage from the red boat wing chun kuen.

[Hendrik]

As I mentioned here:
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67563-ermei-snake-oil-salesman&p=1267011#post1267011

Judge for yourself:
念 頭 膀 手 龍 擺 尾
Lin tau bong2 sau2 lung4 baai2 mei5
The idea of Bong Sau is like a dragon flipping/swaying its tail

落 睜 夾 膀 虎 跳 蹄
Lok6 jang1 gip6 bong2 fu2 tiu3 tai4
Lower and close in your elbows like a tiger ready to pounce forward

二 字 拑 陽 力 滾 身
Yi6 ji6 kim yeung4 lik6 kwan2 san1
The character 2 clamping stance will give you yang energy throughout your body - (Does anyone recognise this from some recent youtube video's )

Many southern arts use this phrase 龍 擺 尾 in different context's.


The most important thing to remember is that kuit is a learn aid helping a student to remember what he is taught by his sifu.
IMHO It is not necessary to have the kuit to learn from your sifu. But you need your sifu to learn from the kuit to understand the context and meaning meant by the writer.

At the end of the day it has to work for you and you need to understand why and what you are doing if you have had to go to other systems to make sense of it and it works for that great.
Where it comes from, when it was written and by whom will not help your progress understanding what works for you will. Simple as that IMO.

All this ruckus and name calling about Yik Kam / Cho Ga /SCWC/ SLT Kuit etc is just a storm in a teacup and not benefiting anyone's progress and development.
If you agree with it use it if not forget it.

As for hiding and being "secret in-door people" that is far from the truth we are very open these days we just don't have much interest in forums and trying to prove anything to others.
If anyone is interest in our system of Ban Chung Wing Chun and happen to be travelling through Singapore feel free to contact me to touch hands, yam cha or whatever. My skill is not so good but I can give you a taste of what we do. I am not interested in video-ing or celebrities just people wanting to exchange.

Carlos Kennerley
Carlos_kennerley@hotmail.com




We can reason all we like.

The kuit
Nim tao (SNT) bong sau dragon wiggle tail.

When The CLF players like Frank Sifu see it , they know " dragon wiggle tail "is from their signature or their famous known CLF couplet



Same thing,
When the Emei 12 zhuang players and Gatekerper sees their signatures, they know it.



You are free to admit it or not, I choose to accept it and acknowledge it. Give credit to where credit from.


The traditional Chinese martial arts community is watching , it is cast in stone now in the history of Wck, since the gate keeper of Emei has verify and signed .
What is good to not admit when black and white is clear? This is a matter of Yik kam and the red boat Wck ancestors, I choose to accept it because no one in the present time can go back in history and over write Yik Kam.

You are free to choose your path. I respect everyone's decision.

[FongSung]

Look at the attached photo of a version of Cho family SNT kuit .


Aware of it or not, There are signatures from both CLF and Emei 12 zhuang.


1.
When Frank the CLF sifu can identify it, one better admit it. To argue it just to put one into a stuck position.

2.
There are kuits in this photo which is from the YKSLT full kuit which I inherit from my sifu lineage. And these are from emei 12 zhuang.

3. Now the YKSLT full kuit and set has been identified and verify to be Emei 12 zhuang related. By the Emei 12 zhuang gate keeper, with his signature. It is what it is. One needs to accept it.



It doesn't matter it is me or any grandmaster or any inheritor or anyone.

When the evidences is from CLF one admit it, when it is from Emei 12 Zhuang one admit it.
To not aware of it is not sin, to deny the facts will put one in the bad position such as Closing one ear to stole a bell. advance transitional Chinese martial artists will know the facts.


Why is it so difficult to accept Emei 12 zhuang and CLF elements exist in the above kuit?

Didnt it is know in the history of Cho family consist of evolution of Gm Cho Dak Shing who fuse CLF with WCK ?
many set created by him has both CLF and Wing Chun kuen signature. iE the Jeet kuen or joint fist set where it switch between CLF move and Wing Chun kuen move back and forth?



Now the YKSLT kuit and set has been proven to be emei 12 zhuang and white crane based. No content of CLF. We know it is the pre Cho Dak Shing Era Yik kam teaching . That is good news for every wcners and Cho family members. It is a piece of intangible culture heritage from the red boat wing chun kuen.

1. Many southern arts have these three character phrase LOL.
2. Very good. From your Sigung GGM Cho Yin On pass this Kuit SLT Kor Kuit and many others to GM Ku.
3. Very good. I have no idea on Ermei stuffs and have no time or interest in Ermei but I wish you well in your research.

Has I have stated before Cho Shun (father of Cho Dak Sing) was one of the last disciples of the founder of CLF. So yes Cho Family do have CLF.
Our WC SLT is only WC but the CLF forms were modified with WC principles.

I have no more interest to repeatedly argue with Hendrik, I am happy with what I have, so I will not be reply posting to him again but I do wish him all the very best with his research.

[Hendrik]

1. Many southern arts have these three character phrase LOL.
2. Very good. From your Sigung GGM Cho Yin On pass this Kuit SLT Kor Kuit and many others to GM Ku.
3. Very good. I have no idea on Ermei stuffs and have no time or interest in Ermei but I wish you well in your research.

Has I have stated before Cho Shun (father of Cho Dak Sing) was one of the last disciples of the founder of CLF. So yes Cho Family do have CLF.
Our WC SLT is only WC but the CLF forms were modified with WC principles.

I have no more interest to repeatedly argue with Hendrik, I am happy with what I have, so I will not be reply posting to him again but I do wish him all the very best with his research.




What I present is no longer a research ,

stories from different sources are great reference but ultimately Facts and evidence is the truth.



It is already a proven facts by envidence,
many WCK sifus from different Wck lineages with The gate keeper of Emei 12 zhuang had witness it in Boston last week.


The YKSLT set with four parts and its full kuen kuit from Yik kam of the red boat opera now has become an intangible Culture heritage of WCK. It is an open platform and own by all Wcners east or west.





There is no

Yik-Kam, ChoGar vs HendrikSantos. CONTROVERSY.

There is Wck intangible culture heritage shared to all wcners equally from a lineage of Yik Kam ChoGar by Hendrik santo.

[Hendrik]

A,

One might say

"Many southern arts use this phrase 龍 擺 尾 in different context's."

To defend the following kuit of Cho family from CLF.



However, that is not a good reason, because more evidence is within the kuit of this lineage pointing toward Choy lee fut couplet.

As the attached photo. As mark,

One can see the character Tiger and its position in the B line which is shared between the Cho family kuit and CLF couplet.

The tiger match the dragon at the same position in both the CLF and the Cho Gar kuit. That cannot be a coincident.

There is no coincident when these signatures of the CLF couplet is within the kuit.

These are the proof that CLF is one of the elements of this lineage.







B,

Thus, contradict to many who accuse my late sifu Gm Cho Hung Choy practice CLF instead of YKWCK.

The facts show The case is actually opposite.

Cho Hung Choy kuit is identified and verify with Emei 12 zhuang and Fujian White crane. There is no trace of CLF.


C,

One needs to based and back up what one claim with facts. Instead of just accuse baseless as one like.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1268049]What I present is no longer a research ,

stories from different sources are great reference but ultimately Facts and evidence is the truth.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrik- you are still passing off your own version of your lineage story as history,

This is an example of the well known logical fallacy- note:

Example:

Never has a book been subjected to such pitiless search for error as the Holy Bible. Both reverent and agnostic critics have ploughed and harrowed its passages; but through it all God's word has stood supreme…. This is proof…that here we have a revelation from God; for…if God reveals himself to man…, he will preserve a record of that revelation in order that men who follow may know his way and will.

Source: Hillyer Straton, Baptists: Their Message and Mission (1941), p. 49

Analysis
Example
If it's raining then the streets are wet.
The streets are wet.
Therefore, it's raining.
------------------------------------------------

You really can't speak for all wing chun people. History is not a hard science but neither is good history a
restating your own story.
Page after page of quasi religious dogmatism.

[Hendrik]

------------------------------------------------

You really can't speak for all wing chun people. History is not a hard science but neither is good history a
restating your own story.
Page after page of quasi religious dogmatism.





1. I don't speak for all wing chun people.

I present only a fact data point exist in 1848 red boat Wck preserve in my own lineage.



2. I don't deal with history , or story.

I present hard evidence of trace able Ancient Chinese martial art DNA from multiple sources.




3. Got nothing to do with religion. I leave it to wcners to take it or leave it.

[zuti car]

1. I don't speak for all wing chun people.

I present only a fact data point exist in 1848 red boat Wck preserve in my own lineage.



2. I don't deal with history , or story.

I present hard evidence of trace able Ancient Chinese martial art DNA from multiple sources.




3. Got nothing to do with religion. I leave it to wcners to take it or leave it.

1. I haven't seen any fact from you ,from what we know wing chun might not even exist in 1848. All you presented here are stories without any evidence

2. Yes you do, that is the only thing you deal with, stories .I do agree you do not deal with history .Again, there isn't any real evidence to support your story. About martial arts DNA , that is your construction and it is a stupid one. If you actually knew anything about DNA you would not use that kind of comparation
. Anyway ,a thing called martial art DNA does not exist , that is your invention ,made to help you support your stories

3.Than leave the address of that museum , you know which one , and I will take it right away

[zuti car]

Look at the attached photo of a version of Cho family SNT kuit .


Aware of it or not, There are signatures from both CLF and Emei 12 zhuang.


0. The translation of the kuit is

Nim tao (SNT) bong sau dragon wiggle tail.

1.
When Frank the CLF sifu can identify it, one better admit it. To argue it just to put one into a stuck position.

2.
There are kuits in this photo which is from the YKSLT full kuit which I inherit from my sifu lineage. And these are from emei 12 zhuang.

3. Now the YKSLT full kuit and set has been identified and verify to be Emei 12 zhuang related. By the Emei 12 zhuang gate keeper, with his signature. It is what it is. One needs to accept it.



It doesn't matter it is me or any grandmaster or any inheritor or anyone.

When the evidences is from CLF one admit it, when it is from Emei 12 Zhuang one admit it.
To not aware of it is not sin, to deny the facts will put one in the bad position such as Closing one ears stealing a bell. advance transitional Chinese martial artists will know the facts.


Why is it so difficult to accept Emei 12 zhuang and CLF elements exist in the above kuit?

Didnt it is know in the history of Cho family consist of evolution of Gm Cho Dak Shing who fuse CLF with WCK ?
many set created by him has both CLF and Wing Chun kuen signature. iE the Jeet kuen or joint fist set where it switch between CLF move and Wing Chun kuen move back and forth?



Now the YKSLT kuit and set from my sifu lineage has been proven to be emei 12 zhuang and white crane based. No content of CLF.
We know it is the pre Cho Dak Shing Era Yik kam teaching .
That is good news for every wcners and Cho family members. It is a piece of intangible culture heritage from the red boat wing chun kuen.

Next time when you do the forgery , let Chinese person to do the writing . I have shown this to several of my friends here, they are not involved in any martial arts but they all have University level education. They all agree this was not written by Chinese , and certainly not something written in 19th Century, not to mention simplified Chinese character you put inside by mistake . Better luck next time with your "evidence"

[GlennR]

1. I don't speak for all wing chun people.

I present only a fact data point exist in 1848 red boat Wck preserve in my own lineage.



2. I don't deal with history , or story.

I present hard evidence of trace able Ancient Chinese martial art DNA from multiple sources.




3. Got nothing to do with religion. I leave it to wcners to take it or leave it.

1. Yes you do you moron. You put forward your evidence and THEN give YOUR conclusions of this shoddy evidence which is basically "all WC stems from emei"............ ALL WC, not yours.......... ALL
What part of that doesnt cover everyone????

2. Fine, then what the address for the Temp[le Zuti has been asking about??

3. Fine... youve put forward your case, now go away

[Minghequan]

Hendrik,

Several posts ago on this very thread you said you were done and would not post anymore!

Not a man of your word are you Hendrik???

[theo]

zuti, you seem to ignore facts and talk without any real understanding on the subject. Wing Chun didn't exist in 1848? So you're saying Wong Wah Bo, Leung Jan, weren't doing Wing Chun? You have zero credibility after making ignorant statements such as those.

and the writing Hendrik showed, that's not what he wrote himself and is a written copy of the kuit from another branch of Cho family, not the original document. If you had any knowledge, you know that Malaysia they use simplified Chinese? On top of that, you are now accusing the entire Cho family of having fake kuit? Good luck on that one.



1. I haven't seen any fact from you ,from what we know wing chun might not even exist in 1848. All you presented here are stories without any evidence

2. Yes you do, that is the only thing you deal with, stories .I do agree you do not deal with history .Again, there isn't any real evidence to support your story. About martial arts DNA , that is your construction and it is a stupid one. If you actually knew anything about DNA you would not use that kind of comparation
. Anyway ,a thing called martial art DNA does not exist , that is your invention ,made to help you support your stories

3.Than leave the address of that museum , you know which one , and I will take it right away



Next time when you do the forgery , let Chinese person to do the writing . I have shown this to several of my friends here, they are not involved in any martial arts but they all have University level education. They all agree this was not written by Chinese , and certainly not something written in 19th Century, not to mention simplified Chinese character you put inside by mistake . Better luck next time with your "evidence"

[Hendrik]

zuti, you seem to ignore facts and talk without any real understanding on the subject. Wing Chun didn't exist in 1848? So you're saying Wong Wah Bo, Leung Jan, weren't doing Wing Chun? You have zero credibility after making ignorant statements such as those.

and the writing Hendrik showed, that's not what he wrote himself and is a written copy of the kuit from another branch of Cho family, not the original document. If you had any knowledge, you know that Malaysia they use simplified Chinese? On top of that, you are now accusing the entire Cho family of having fake kuit? Good luck on that one.




Lots of people love to act as an expert on what they are clueless and use nonsense to play China Expert.
Who cares about simplified chinese or taiwan chinese characters. There are plenty of buddhist sutra which are printed in simplified chinese characters. Does those sutras fake? It is just too much to make senseless conclusion . Dont waste your time



The following is from Jim Roselando who get his information directly from Kulo village and dependent of late Gm Fung Chun.



Jim Roselando

The Red Boat Era & Dr. Leung Jan

Today most do not realize that Dr. Leung Jan was not only from the Red Boat era but also trained before most Red Boat Opera members ever heard of the art of Wing Chun.

Dr. Leung Jan studied other forms of Nam Kuen as a youth but when he was a teenager (most say about 16-18) he began to study Wing Chun with Wong Wah Bo. That would have been no later than 1843! A little more than ten years before the famed Uprising and burning of the Fine Jade Flower Union.

The above fact is why Dr. Leung Jan was said to be privy to and schooled in the 1st & 2nd generation Wing Chun Kuen!

Respect to the Kung Fu King

[Minghequan]

Hendrik,

Several posts ago on this very thread you said you were done and would not post anymore!

Not a man of your word are you Hendrik???

[Hendrik]

Cho family martial arts are a combination of Choy Lay Fut and Wing Chun correct? _______

More then that. Cho family is a martial family for generation, the Cho ancestors have many styles of in depth art.




CLF is directly from the founder Chan Heung and WC from a 3rd generation inheritor Yik Kam correct? _____

I am not sure about Chan Heung,
However we do known The Cho and CLF is very close related in the Taiping uprising era. They are anti Qing people.

Not sure what do you mean by 3rd generation inheritor.
Yik kam is a red boat opera actor involve in the red boat uprising of China.




Why do you place more emphasis on one ancestor over the other? _______

dont know what you mean. Yik kam is the person who is responsible to bring wck into Cho Family. My inheritance from The Cho family is wck not CLF
And Wck is a not CLF or other arts.




Why do you disregard Chan Heungs influence and replace his importance with Emei? _______


I am talking Wing Chun Kuen of Yik Kam. Wck Got nothing to do with CLF. I dont practice CLF.
Emei 12 zhuang is the mother art of Yik Kam WCK.


Is CLF not a worthy source in your opinion? _______

Not related to Yik kam wck.



If CLF wasn't an important aspect why are all the ancillary forms based on CLF? _______


CLF is the major driving force in Taiping army, but
A Different art not related to Yik kam wing chun kuen I practice.





Did you know that the Fut in CLF has it's roots in Tibet? ______

Could be but that is beyond my field.




I find that very interesting don't you? _____


My focus is only in wing chun kuen.



Seems to me I wrote a little something about that. ______

Your sharing is always great.

[zuti car]

zuti, you seem to ignore facts and talk without any real understanding on the subject. Wing Chun didn't exist in 1848? So you're saying Wong Wah Bo, Leung Jan, weren't doing Wing Chun? You have zero credibility after making ignorant statements such as those.

and the writing Hendrik showed, that's not what he wrote himself and is a written copy of the kuit from another branch of Cho family, not the original document. If you had any knowledge, you know that Malaysia they use simplified Chinese? On top of that, you are now accusing the entire Cho family of having fake kuit? Good luck on that one.

And there we go again. I said , document hendrik presented was written by non Chinese person, I have never said anything about whole cho or any other family. I have jut commented on the picture hendrik posted ,it is not what he said it is ,or people used simplified characters in 19th Century?So , if there is any original document written by yik kam or any od the Cho family elders before 1950"s there would be no simplified characters . Simple as that . Who wrote what I do not know , but when , that is pretty obvious ,there is specific style of writing for every era and that is why I have consulted people who actually know to determine such a thing . Forgery ,and that is it .
About Wong Wah Bo &Co , there is no evidence of their existence , only stories . In China of that period , where everything was documented we cannot find any material evidence of their existence , no birth certificates , no grave stones , they are not mentioned in any official or unofficial documents , they cannot be found on any tax payers lists , so , their existence remains to be proven . About Leung Jan, what we know for sure is that he learned some martial arts from some opera members , that is all. What he learned we do not know and we do not even know name of the art he was practicing . It possible he is the one who named the art , or some of his students. We do not know , because there is no evidence , all we have are stories .We do not know even how many sons Leung Jan had or if he had any , again a lot of stories , no documents .At the end , you can believe anything you want ,I don't believe , I rely on hard evidence , something is there or not , speculations and old folk's stories I do not take seriously , especially when we talk about kung fu .

[Hendrik]

If this is suspected of one side would it not also logically apply to the other?


It is a multiple sources verification.

Emei 12 Zhuang writing is a large part of the Yik Kam SLT body Kung kuit.
and emei 12 zhuang writing shows up in different Cho family Wck lineages kuit.

Also,

Cho family Wck SLT , disregards of lineages or evolution , all share Emei 12 zhuang Signature.

[zuti car]

Lots of people love to act as an expert on what they are clueless and use nonsense to play China Expert.
Who cares about simplified chinese or taiwan chinese characters. There are plenty of buddhist sutra which are printed in simplified chinese characters. Does those sutras fake? It is just too much to make senseless conclusion . Dont waste your time



The following is from Jim Roselando who get his information directly from Kulo village and dependent of late Gm Fung Chun.



Jim Roselando

The Red Boat Era & Dr. Leung Jan

Today most do not realize that Dr. Leung Jan was not only from the Red Boat era but also trained before most Red Boat Opera members ever heard of the art of Wing Chun.

Dr. Leung Jan studied other forms of Nam Kuen as a youth but when he was a teenager (most say about 16-18) he began to study Wing Chun with Wong Wah Bo. That would have been no later than 1843! A little more than ten years before the famed Uprising and burning of the Fine Jade Flower Union.

The above fact is why Dr. Leung Jan was said to be privy to and schooled in the 1st & 2nd generation Wing Chun Kuen!

Respect to the Kung Fu King

Of course hendrik,Chinese people do not know Chinese language , but you do . Highly educated Chinese cannot recognize if something was written by non Chinese, because YOU wrote it , and we all know you cannot be wrong .
About that Roselindo guy you are quoting , I would like to see some references , sources, documents ect , so I can check his claims for my self . That is why any serious scientist , when publish something, leaves references so everyone can check and verify his findings . Of course , if you only have some old people's stories and your imagination , you cannot leave any references. You and other "researches" can play "historians" as much as you want , the truth is , you all do not have education nor proper methods in your "research" , you are just legends collectors and imaginative writers , who lack of knowledge fill with personal desires and expectations .You are light years far from science and real research .You can be angry as much as you want , but that is the truth . How about that museum address , can you give me that finally , or you do not have it ?Be honest for once in your life , give the address or admit you do not have it , stop avoiding the answer .

[Hendrik]

And there we go again. I said , document hendrik presented was written by non Chinese person, I have never said anything about whole cho or any other family. I have jut commented on the picture hendrik posted ,it is not what he said it is ,or people used simplified characters in 19th Century?So , if there is any original document written by yik kam or any od the Cho family elders before 1950"s there would be no simplified characters . Simple as that . Who wrote what I do not know , but when , that is pretty obvious ,there is specific style of writing for every era and that is why I have consulted people who actually know to determine such a thing . Forgery ,and that is it .
About Wong Wah Bo &Co , there is no evidence of their existence , only stories . In China of that period , where everything was documented we cannot find any material evidence of their existence , no birth certificates , no grave stones , they are not mentioned in any official or unofficial documents , they cannot be found on any tax payers lists , so , their existence remains to be proven . About Leung Jan, what we know for sure is that he learned some martial arts from some opera members , that is all. What he learned we do not know and we do not even know name of the art he was practicing . It possible he is the one who named the art , or some of his students. We do not know , because there is no evidence , all we have are stories .We do not know even how many sons Leung Jan had or if he had any , again a lot of stories , no documents .At the end , you can believe anything you want ,I don't believe , I rely on hard evidence , something is there or not , speculations and old folk's stories I do not take seriously , especially when we talk about kung fu .



紙上談兵。 想入非非

[Hendrik]

So is it safe to assume that this is a unique trait isolated to Cho family as the Emei kuit is not present in any other branch (aside from vague similarity) of Wing Chun?



I don't assume for others,


Yik kam SLT set and kuit within Cho family , which develop body Kung and applications , is a part of 1848 red boat WCK.

[Hendrik]

I don't know much.

But I do know you are full of it. And love to play China Expert 中國通 on subject you are clueless.





Of course hendrik,Chinese people do not know Chinese language , but you do . Highly educated Chinese cannot recognize if something was written by non Chinese, because YOU wrote it , and we all know you cannot be wrong .
About that Roselindo guy you are quoting , I would like to see some references , sources, documents ect , so I can check his claims for my self . That is why any serious scientist , when publish something, leaves references so everyone can check and verify his findings . Of course , if you only have some old people's stories and your imagination , you cannot leave any references. You and other "researches" can play "historians" as much as you want , the truth is , you all do not have education nor proper methods in your "research" , you are just legends collectors and imaginative writers , who lack of knowledge fill with personal desires and expectations .You are light years far from science and real research .You can be angry as much as you want , but that is the truth . How about that museum address , can you give me that finally , or you do not have it ?Be honest for once in your life , give the address or admit you do not have it , stop avoiding the answer .

[zuti car]

I don't know much.

But I do know you are full of it. And love to play China Expert 中國通 on subject you are clueless.

Yup .You really don't know much .
I am clueless , on the other hand , you have all the answers .
My poor hendrik, you are really something special . You come here and insult all the people presenting a bunch of forgeries , thinking that if it is written in Chinese all will buy it without any question . Do you really think people are that stupid ? Do you really think you are smarter than everybody else ? About China expert thing , how long did you live in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong or Macao ? And one more thing, the address, you know which one ?

[Daniel Fong]

Of course hendrik,Chinese people do not know Chinese language , but you do . Highly educated Chinese cannot recognize if something was written by non Chinese, because YOU wrote it , and we all know you cannot be wrong .
About that Roselindo guy you are quoting , I would like to see some references , sources, documents ect , so I can check his claims for my self . That is why any serious scientist , when publish something, leaves references so everyone can check and verify his findings . Of course , if you only have some old people's stories and your imagination , you cannot leave any references. You and other "researches" can play "historians" as much as you want , the truth is , you all do not have education nor proper methods in your "research" , you are just legends collectors and imaginative writers , who lack of knowledge fill with personal desires and expectations .You are light years far from science and real research .You can be angry as much as you want , but that is the truth . How about that museum address , can you give me that finally , or you do not have it ?Be honest for once in your life , give the address or admit you do not have it , stop avoiding the answer .


No people in Cho's family know any emei, even his sifu Cho Hung Choi too. There is no emei in ykwc in Yik Kam time. There is no emei in ykwc while desending in Cho's family till today. The emei term has just been introduced by Hendrik Santos today.

He can change the wording of the SCWC kuit and make it emei like openly. He can change SCWC 1890 document to 1894 document openly. Does he prove his ykwc kuit not being modified to look like emei before bringing out to the public ? Why his kuit is being so different from the Cho Gar ?

Without emei, Yik Kam still practiced it, Leung Jan still practiced it, Wong Wah Boh still practiced it, Leung Yee Di still practiced it, YipMan still practiced it. Yuen Kay Shan still practiced it, Bruce Lee still practiced it...............

More, TCMA emphasis a lot on body kung. AS the one long set split to 3 forms set, will the kung part be totally drop and just concentrate on the applications only? In order to promote his Hendrik ykwc and emei, he did say bad a lot on other wck lineages including Cho's family ykwc without emei, not doing any wck.

[zuti car]

No people in Cho's family know any emei, even his sifu Cho Hung Choi too. There is no emei in ykwc in Yik Kam time. There is no emei in ykwc while desending in Cho's family till today. The emei term has just been introduced by Hendrik Santos today.

He can change the wording of the SCWC kuit and make it emei like openly. He can change SCWC 1890 document to 1894 document openly. Does he prove his ykwc kuit not being modified to look like emei before bringing out to the public ? Why his kuit is being so different from the Cho Gar ?

Without emei, Yik Kam still practiced it, Leung Jan still practiced it, Wong Wah Boh still practiced it, Leung Yee Di still practiced it, YipMan still practiced it. Yuen Kay Shan still practiced it, Bruce Lee still practiced it...............

More, TCMA emphasis a lot on body kung. AS the one long set split to 3 forms set, will the kung part be totally drop and just concentrate on the applications only? In order to promote his Hendrik ykwc and emei, he did say bad a lot on other wck lineages including Cho's family ykwc without emei, not doing any wck.

He is a fraud and a liar , I have proved that on one simple example .

[anerlich]

The traditional Chinese martial arts community is watching

I doubt the wider traditional Chinese martial arts community is doing any such thing, except perhaps in horrified fascination .

[Daniel Fong]

He is a fraud and a liar , I have proved that on one simple example .



Hendrik.
To MeRobert ChuJack Chang
Feb 17
Wayne,

1. Be able to make Happy is a great thing Robert and I will do.

2. Great that you met Sergio and have first hand understanding on him and the possibility for further program. My best wishes for you and him. I am sure there are alots of things you can teaches him on the history and culture of Wck. Also, you guys sure will come up with good videos for Wck history and SCWC to share with the world.

3. I have made my decision to wash my hand on Wck and become a full time Buddhist since my mission in Wck is completed. That is what I like to do here on with lots of good memories in Wck.



Best regards
Hendrik

Sent from my iPad


A more concrete evidence from HS writing to Sifu Wayne Yung dated on 17 Feb 2014. After a mouse taking the cheese from Sifu yung, lying to him, washing the hands, becoming a fulltime buddhist, today, he borrows SCWC stuff to filling in his incomplete holes and highly promote his ykwc with emei. He change SCWC kuit wording to suit his emei like. He tries to promote an art no body knows before and brings it up to over 4 million wckners market. For what ? Today, we can see the tail of this mouse clearly.


8452

Why HS approaching Sifu Wayne Yung, just waiting for the time to borrow, to take, to ..... The same approach had also done by Robert Chu.

These two mouses never understand what the traditional kung fu culture is on the other side of this earth. Of course, they are American Chineses, what their culture is only American Chinese style. They always use their standard to judge others.

[LFJ]

Of course, they are American Chineses, what their culture is only American Chinese style.

Hendrik isn't American-born Chinese. Hendrik Santo is not a Chinese name. Pretty sure he's from Indonesia or something, and Chinese and English are maybe his 3rd and 4th languages?

[Daniel Fong]

As what Sifu Yung said, A mouse is always a mouse, A liar is always a liar and A fake buddhist is always a fake buddhist.

1) All you here should find interested that two American top wck researchers and buddhists, HSRC, who like to spend few years time to stay with Snake Crane Wing Chun Mun, Sfiu Wayne Yung. No body know this lineage and Sifu Yung before. Why ?

2) In 2009 and 2011, Robert Chu said bad on SCWC in other threads in this Kung Fu magazine forum. Today, it is very interesting he claimed he baisee Law Chiu Wing, head of SCWC Mun. Why ? (Remark : Law Chiu Wing no more related to any SCWC since 2008 in various media, getting fully retired)

3) Recently, Hendrik in very high profile said a lot SCWC, but today, after breaking up with Sifu Yung, never mentioning once. Why ?

[KPM]

I'm confused. How is it applicable to other branches that have no connection to Yik Kam and trace their history to before 1848? I don't doubt your belief that it is present in YKWC, I just don't see how it ties in with other branches when it is documented that the art was split into 3 divisions prior to 1840's. These being San Sik method of Liang Li Tie, 3 Kuen Tau of Wong Wah Bo and 1 Kuen Tau of Dai Fa Min Kam. By your own admission the San Sik doesn't contain the proper Gung, yet you say Koo Lo style has the signatures of Emei. It is obvious that Emei was not present in the formulation of Wing Chun as it is widely accepted that Wing Chun was originally a method of San Sik. The San Sik does not work on Gung production as laid forth by Emei methodology. So how could Emei have been present from the beginning? Is it possible that Emei was introduced into Wing Chun via Yik Kam or later?

+1! My thoughts and questions exactly!

[tc101]

+1! My thoughts and questions exactly!

My thought is who cares? What difference does it make? People with no proven martial skills arguing about what is original wing chun and how they think how guys who have no fighting skills mind you how they think these practices are necessary. Necessary for what? The recognized fighters in our history did not have the ermei kuit and did not use Hendrik's process but only had watered down wing chun and they kick ass.

I don't care if Hendrik made all this up if he could show show show that it produced or translated into real fighting skill. He can't because it doesn't. It's simple if they can't show you it in sparring or fighting then it is all talk and worthless.

[LFJ]

People with no proven martial skills arguing about what is original wing chun and how they think how guys who have no fighting skills mind you how they think these practices are necessary.

Is this Robert Chu the same Sifu of Alan Orr? That's actually the only lineage to train pro fighters to victory in MMA using Wing Chun, isn't it?

[Minghequan]

I don't care if Hendrik made all this up if he could show show show that it produced or translated into real fighting skill. He can't because it doesn't. It's simple if they can't show you it in sparring or fighting then it is all talk and worthless.

+1! My thoughts exactly!

[tc101]

Is this Robert Chu the same Sifu of Alan Orr? That's actually the only lineage to train pro fighters to victory in MMA using Wing Chun, isn't it?

I think there are other branches of wing chun that have guys fighting Obasi springs to mind, some in TWC, some in Leung Ting, and so forth. I think it has not much to do with lineage and everything to do with how you train, how hard you train, and so forth. Orr's group learned how to train for fighting from Eddie Millis a mma fighter and trainer. That was very very smart of him. The principles for training fighters are the same for any art you just adjust them for your art.

[LFJ]

I think there are other branches of wing chun that have guys fighting Obasi springs to mind, some in TWC, some in Leung Ting, and so forth.

The only one of those I'm aware of fighting pro is Obasi, but he doesn't represent a branch. He's just an independent fighter without a sifu. His pro record is also 0-1. Alan's team is the only one I'm aware of that are actually knocking out pro fighters, and doing it with CSL Wing Chun from Robert Chu.

[tc101]

The only one of those I'm aware of fighting pro is Obasi, but he doesn't represent a branch. He's just an independent fighter without a sifu. His pro record is also 0-1. Alan's team is the only one I'm aware of that are actually knocking out pro fighters, and doing it with CSL Wing Chun from Robert Chu.

Just because they are the only ones you are aware of doesn't mean there aren't others. Obasi did not learn wing chun from Orr or Chu. I know Rick Spain produces mma fighters in Oz, LT had fighters in early UFCs, some of Cheungs guys in the US fought in K1 and so forth.

I am not sure why you bring up Chu is it because he is a friend of Hendrik's? Is there any evidence that what he or Orr teaches is in any way related to Hendrik's gobbledygook?

[LFJ]

Just because they are the only ones you are aware of doesn't mean there aren't others. Obasi did not learn wing chun from Orr or Chu. I know Rick Spain produces mma fighters in Oz, LT had fighters in early UFCs, some of Cheungs guys in the US fought in K1 and so forth.

Any names and clips of the fighters successfully using their _ing _un in pro competition then?


I am not sure why you bring up Chu is it because he is a friend of Hendrik's? Is there any evidence that what he or Orr teaches is in any way related to Hendrik's gobbledygook?

Yes, I believe, the whole 7 bows body structure, force handling thing.

[tc101]

Any names and clips of the fighters successfully using their _ing _un in pro competition then?

Yes, I believe, the whole 7 bows body structure, force handling thing.

I don't know about clips. I'm sure there are some.

You are not serious about the 7 bows force handling are you? Have you seen Orr's videos or his guys fight?

Orr's team is successful because he takes fighting seriously and went to a good fight trainer. How many other wing chun groups have went and trained under a good fight trainer? So the guy who trained with a good fight trainer has really good results fighting and the people who haven't aren't doing as well. Is any one surprised by that?

[LFJ]

So would you like to divorce their success from these principles or Wing Chun altogether and join the likes of BPWT and KPM? Alan understands Wing Chun body structure and his fighters use it to knock people out.

[Frost]

So would you like to divorce their success from these principles or Wing Chun altogether and join the likes of BPWT and KPM? Alan understands Wing Chun body structure and his fighters use it to knock people out.

But is that structure the same one hendrick is on about?

Rick Spain has been mentioned on this thread, we have one of his students here who might chime in with clips but it has been mentioned several times over the last decade on here about him and his guys competing in kick boxing and MMA and doing very well, like Robert rick has extensive experience in other arts not just wing chun so how much what he does is pure wing chun In the ring is anyone’s guess…..

As an aside when the clips of alan were posted on the main forum in a bid to get him laughed at, a few people simply noted it shared a lot of similarities with other southern arts …seeing as how Robert has trained a number of different arts with some very high profile masters for a long time in addition to his wing chun I wonder how much of those arts are in what he teaches and whether that plays a part in his students success

And if using Alan as a yardstick to measure henricks system validity, its worth remembering that only Alan out of Roberts students has actually posted anything fight related, and Robert is not henrick his background is much more extensive and different than hendricks……

[deejaye72]

and Robert is not henrick his background is much more extensive and different than hendricks……


thats what i assumed early on, that its mostly a blend of roberts knowledge!

[LFJ]

But is that structure the same one hendrick is on about?

They both talk about the "7 bows", receiving/issuing force, and whatnot in a similar fashion...

Alan also commented highly on Sergio's video demonstrating some of it.

[deejaye72]

They both talk about the "7 bows", receiving/issuing force, and whatnot in a similar fashion...


and to me it all points to hawkins cheung, it's all very similar to what he's been talking about for a long time. if they added to this knowledge, why not take credit for it? i would, screw giving the credit to someone else, especially if it works lol:D

[LFJ]

Well, a lot of it is just standard _ing _un. Nothing secret or advanced about it.

[tc101]

So would you like to divorce their success from these principles or Wing Chun altogether and join the likes of BPWT and KPM? Alan understands Wing Chun body structure and his fighters use it to knock people out.

Do not confuse the model with the substance.

When you really REALLY do stand up grappling or stand up striking and I mean REALLY do it in sparring you will develop good body structure and good power. All good fighters do. How do they do that? By going through a fighters training progression which is progression that helps you take your model and develop from there. How do Orr guys learn body structure? Through pressure right? Exactly it is by having to deal with the pressure that they develop the means to deal with the pressure. Put any wing chun guy under that pressure and force him to deal with it and they will develop the body structure to deal with it.

[LFJ]

Do not confuse the model with the substance.

When you really REALLY do stand up grappling or stand up striking and I mean REALLY do it in sparring you will develop good body structure and good power. All good fighters do. How do they do that? By going through a fighters training progression which is progression that helps you take your model and develop from there. How do Orr guys learn body structure? Through pressure right? Exactly it is by having to deal with the pressure that they develop the means to deal with the pressure. Put any wing chun guy under that pressure and force him to deal with it and they will develop the body structure to deal with it.

Sooo, that's a yes then?

[HybridWarrior]

Well, a lot of it is just standard _ing _un. Nothing secret or advanced about it.

Exactly!!!

[kentchang]

Originally Posted by Hendrik
1. I don't speak for all wing chun people.

I present only a fact data point exist in 1848 red boat Wck preserve in my own lineage.



2. I don't deal with history , or story.

I present hard evidence of trace able Ancient Chinese martial art DNA from multiple sources.

3. Got nothing to do with religion. I leave it to wcners to take it or leave it

Hendrik, did you ever make these claims in public? If yes, why are you denying them now?


Claim – Hendrik Santos is sole successor of Yik Kam Cho Gar Wing Chun by his Sifu Cho Hung Choy.
Claim – Hendrik Santos publicly claim Ermei 12 palms system is the mother art of all Wing Chun.
Claim – Hendrik Santos publicly claim if WCK is without Ermei 12 palms system it is not WCK.
Claim – Hendrik Santos publicly claim all WCK without the core of Ermei will die out between one generation and 30 yrs time.
Claim – Hendrik Santos just sharing his story unbias leave it up to public to accept

Why are all of these Yik Kam Cho Gar members saying that you actually made up your Ermei story, fabricated the false history of YKWC and twisted the SCWC kuit in order to fit your own agenda?


From Cho Gar family member Patrick Tham on FB, WC Malaysia page.

There is a drastic difference between students and disciples. The actual forms were only taught to immediate family members. Whereas those learning in schools within the Cho village were only taught modified forms. The original 108 complete single form was used to modify Hung Kuen, Choy Lay Fatt, etc and taught to the students. Cho Onn also did not teach the original form to his early students including Cho Hung Choy, Yeung Kam Jiang, Hendrick Santos and others. Until today, the original form is only imparted to selected closed door disciples.

None of the elders in Cho Ga has knowledge about Yik Kam's Siu Lim Tao having a hybrid of Emei 12 form ad claimed by Hendrick Santos. It is a fabrication of his own imagination.

Hendrik Santos is indeed Cho Hung Choy's disciple. No doubt about it. But Cho Hung Choy was not Cho Onn's nephew at all. He was just someone from the Cho Village in Punyu that Cho Onn was asked to bring to Nanyang as those days it was difficult to clear the immigration unless they claim to be immediate family members. When Cho Hung Choy was older, Cho Onn brought him back to Punyu to marry one of the village girls. He did not learn any martial art while he was back at the village. This was told to some of us by the Cho Ga elders when we were back at Punyu.

[kentchang]

A more concrete evidence from HS writing to Sifu Wayne Yung dated on 17 Feb 2014. After a mouse taking the cheese from Sifu yung, lying to him, washing the hands, becoming a fulltime buddhist, today, he borrows SCWC stuff to filling in his incomplete holes and highly promote his ykwc with emei. He change SCWC kuit wording to suit his emei like. He tries to promote an art no body knows before and brings it up to over 4 million wckners market. For what ? Today, we can see the tail of this mouse clearly.


8452

Why HS approaching Sifu Wayne Yung, just waiting for the time to borrow, to take, to ..... The same approach had also done by Robert Chu.

These two mouses never understand what the traditional kung fu culture is on the other side of this earth. Of course, they are American Chineses, what their culture is only American Chinese style. They always use their standard to judge others.

Hendrik,

Why are all of these SCWC/Yik Kam Cho Gar members saying that you actually made up your Ermei story, fabricated the false history of YKWC and twisted the SCWC kuit in order to fit your own agenda?

The funny thing about this soap opera of Ermei 12 Zheung, Hendrik went to ask Sergio to promote him as a legit WC researcher. My question to Hendrik is why do you choose Sergio to sing your song and promote your fabricated history of YKWC as the mother and the origin of all Wing Chun? Most people consider Sergio as nothing more than an airhead that would take anybody's story to promote his internet channel to make money. Base on the past history, nothing legit, only fabrication of history, cherry picking stories from Sergio's channel. With that kind of reputation, you still want to choose Sergio as the promoter for your own story. You should either be ashamed of yourself for taking advantage of Sergio's inexperience in WC or for thinking the rest of us so gullible.

[anerlich]

Rick Spain has been mentioned on this thread, we have one of his students here who might chime in with clips but it has been mentioned several times over the last decade on here about him and his guys competing in kick boxing and MMA and doing very well, like Robert rick has extensive experience in other arts not just wing chun so how much what he does is pure wing chun In the ring is anyone’s guess…..

Rick Spain had 37 pro kickboxing matches and about 100 amateur kickboxing bouts. Late 70's to mid 80's. He had a number of students ranked in the top 10 state and nationals in the late 80's. Most of this happened before either Muay Thai or MMA become well known or popular in Australia. A few guys have competed in MMA in more recent times but this isn't really the focus of Rick's school any more. Anyone who wants to pursue competition will be directed to more competition oriented kickboxing/MT or MMA academies. We did have student, Nick Ariel, who beat a BJJ black belt in an MMA fight, but who competes in kickboxing today and currently trains with Alex Tui, a former Australian kickboxing titleholder.

Wanna compete and win? Train with other people who have done that and know more about it than your WC sifu does.

At 59 I'm not interested in competing but train BJJ several times a week at Sydney's oldest (and IMO best) MMA Academy, as well as teaching semi-regularly at Rick's school. I like WC but have wider interests. Specialising in one martial art is for underachievers. The world's too rich and varied to pull the wool over your own eyes.

While I admire what Alan Orr and his guys are doing, we don't have the same desire or need to prove the supremacy of Wing Chun to the world, or find some secret lost teaching, or hook up with some super secret Shaolin disciple Bhodisattva dude (who I would probably find to be a pompous d*ck if I met him face to face) to give it legitimacy. These days I do what I do to enjoy it and to motivate myself to a high standard of fitness and physical coordination. After you get to about 50 yo you get tired of this bullsh!t supremacy thing, and laugh at those around your age still on that trip and on this forum who should know better by now.

[kentchang]

What do these two guy RC + HS have to do with Sergio? Is strange? Just casual friend they want to share their cheese with or deeper selfish agenda? Why go to him after trying to pull fast one against Sifu Yung? Was Sergio in on the scam crafting by Hendrik trying to twist Kuit and make to suit his personal theory and imagination to rewrite history and tear down others? is that also Sergio agenda too, or are these two mouse taking advantage of SErgio?

I see that on that protecting real shaolin blog http://protectingrealshaolin.wordpress.com/ mentioning Sergio is one who expose frauds Andraes Hoffman and Kenneth Lin by going to source roots of those guys kung fu. I think though he gets fool by these frauds eventually he visiting their Sifu he gets the real story. Then he shows public what the truth is after getting fooled. He was fooled by poser Chi Sim Hoffman with anti Yip Man campaign and then fooled by Black Flag Kenneth Lin and Benny Meng with HKB fake Wing Chun scam. This now happen at least two times to him two strikes but will joining RC and HS become third strike for him to support this Emei fabrication or will he go to visits the elders of Cho Gar Pai for the real research?

Nothing could be more difficult for Yim Wing Chun 嚴詠春!

More lies from Hendrik and his supporters.


Originally posted by Hendrik
GM Fu identified half of the KUIT to be Emei based and GM Lee Kong agreed that the term Zhao Yang in the kuit number 18 is a White Crane term and both saw their respective arts back in the movements of the 1848 set that are the facts nothing more nothing less.

What do these mouses 武林老鼠want from Sifu Lee Kong (White Crane) Sifu Yung (Snake Crane Wing Chun) and Sifu Fu (Ermei )?


Originally posted by Minghequan
Even more ....... The Hendrik, Sergio bandwagon is falling apart!
Another thing that is worthy of a mention here to show the type of duplicity and using type of characters Hendrik and Sergio are:

Sergio approached Sifu Yung of Snake Crane Wing Chun just after Sergio's two Youtube videos on the "true origin of Wing Chun Parts 1 & 2.

He stated to Sifu Yung that he (Sergio) cannot produce his 3rd episode because of the posts posting questioning him (Sergio).

Then Sergio approached Sifu Yung wanting to promote Sifu Yung's Snake Crane Wing Chun on his seminars to Europe and the States. Sifu Yung told Sergio that he didn't need or want him ever. Wayne said "I know who he is already"

So even Hendrik's supporters and "promoters" appear to have abandoned him!

I think the only honourable thing now is for Sergio, Hendrik and those who follow and support these pairs despicable actions to offer a full retraction and public apology to Master Lee Kong and to Sifu Yung!

Thanks for Sifu Ron's report!


Sergio & Hendrik: Caught Out AGAIN!
It was I who made Sifu Lee Kong aware of the highly misleading post here by both Hendrik and Sergio!!!

Just to shine some extra light on what my good friend Sifu Yung has already posted here on the statement made by Hendrik via Sunny via Sergio regarding Lee Kong as seen on the forum:

This "statement" was sent to Sifu Lee Kong via "whatapps" last night.

Hendrik, Sunny and Sergio are lying and Lee Kong has said so in a call yesterday.

This Sunny So called Sifu Lee Kong to ask him for some training. Then Lee Kong saw Sergio tagging along with him.

Sergio showed the 1st section of his Siu Nim Tao and kuit to Lee Kong ,and whilst Master Lee Kong found some similarity in the form Master Lee Kong did not confirm any relation to his White Crane. On the kuit, Lee Kong only understood only understand one statement only related to chiuyeung, the others he didn't recognise.

Lee Kong has stated that He did teach Sunny so only on 5 sets of White Crane, but did not and has not taught Sergio.

Sergio is Sunny So's student so this is where Sergio claims the connection between Sergio's IWKA and White Crane. Master Le Kong did not state he was a teacher of Sergio or his IWKA.

I strongly believe that Master Lee Kong is not happy they made use of him, and his name and art.



1. GM Lee just find there are crane similarities of the FRONT PART of SNT.
2. On the kuits, GM Lee understand ONE STATEMENT ONLY, "竪掌沉肘單昭陽", THE REST HE DIDN'T KNOW THE MEANING.
3. On the Wing and Crane relation, the term 'Wing' GM Lee not dare to say.
4. The 'Wing' contains the Crane DNA or not, we already have mutual understanding ONLY.
5. GM Lee had asked Sifu Sunny So to clarify clearly to avoid any misunderstanding.
6. Sergio's white crane forms were taught by GM Lee student, Master Yip, because of different thinking, then breaking up
7. Then Master Yip with Sifu Michael Tang(Nephew of GM Tang Yik, and Sifu So(disciple of Tang Yik) with Sifu Sergio.
8. Sifu Sunny So only learnt 5 fighting fist forms from GM Lee many years.
9. They like to teach in IWTA, he cannot refuse, because was really taught by GM Lee., but need them to clarify clearely the transmission on their arts.


- Similarities do not mean any White Crane DNA there.
- The term 昭陽 does not be exclusively term used in White Crane, it is a common term in Fujin 五祖拳 too. Also, similaritites can also be found in Fujin 五祖拳.
- Only one statement in the kuit GM Lee recognises ( not full kuits)
- From above, Sergio never trained with GM Lee, even yesterday training, just lunch only.

Summary: There is no evidence on GM Lee Kong saying openly or privately that in Yik Kam WCK, there are any White Crane DNA, just some similarities. All Southern forms, we can find a lot of similarities in between styles because ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE LIMITED TO HAVE 2 HANDS, 2 LEGS AND A BIG BODY TRUNK ONLY. It is not strange that similarities can be found, but not DNA. Also, the term DNA is being misused by Hendrik Santo in Chinese Martial Arts.

More, what GM Fu said what the relationship between YKWC and his Emei, no body knows, just from Jim Roselando. In this Sergio's report on White Crane case, they can change and present what they like to say to public. No evidence shown from GM Fu. How can we trust those liars and their associates.

More, on the Cho's family case, all evidence provided by Hendrik not being proved. Who knows whether he made his evidence(like the simplified chars in the Ku's kuit, done by non-Chinese), his sifu's letters, and others. Are all they proved or being created by Hendrik ?

More, why Hendrik's kuits so different from Cho's family one ? Will Hendrik make up his kuit with Emei before releasing to the public ? Why only his YKWC kuit relating to Emei only ? Why other kuits in other lineages not relating to Emei ?

However, evidence show that Hendrik like to change the wording on the kuits, he like to change the meaning on SCWC kuits. He like to do whatever he like to do to match his created emei story.
Based on what has been posted here, Sifu Lee Kong said clearly and factually what they are claiming are lies.

There are a lot of contradictions on the form and the kuits, similarities doesn't mean Hendrik's so-called "DNA", only one statement in the kuit, not most kuits.

So now that Lee Kong whatapp reply has been clearly published as I requested ... there can be no doubting the truth of what so many of us hare been saying here and no doubting the lies peddled by both Hendrik and Sergio on this matter!

So to clarify: ........

Lee Kong has stated that He did teach Sunny so only on 5 sets of White Crane, but did not and has not taught Sergio nor endorsed Segio's IWKA for White Crane Gongfu!.

Sergio is Sunny So's student so this is where Sergio claims the connection between Sergio's IWKA and White Crane. Master Lee Kong did not state he was a teacher of Sergio or his nor has he recommended Sergio's IWKA as teaching Sifu Lee Kon's direct White Crane nor does Sifu Lee Kong endorse the IWKA.

This is very important as anybody reading this on KFO could after reading Hendrik's post and Sergio's lies that Sifu Lee Kong is certifying and fully backing Sergio, the IWKA and Hendrik!!!

For Hendrik and Sergio to make such a statement here is TOTALLY MISLEADING and HIGHLY DISRESPECTFUL to the viewers of this forum and shows the true colours and lack of personal Character and Wude of Hendrik, Sergio and those associated with these Wing Chun Mouses!

For Hendrik and Sergio to make such a statement here is TOTALLY MISLEADING and HIGHLY DISRESPECTFUL to Master Lee Kong and his highly esteemed White Crane Gongfu!

Hendrik and Sergio have tried to use Master Lee Kong to push their own twisted views and make believe "His-Story" and politics!

Both Hendrik and Sergio should immediately post a public retraction and apology on this forum not only to Master Lee Kong but to the other readers and members of this forum!

Ron Goninan
China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
White Crane Research Institute Inc
http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
A seeker of the way

[Minghequan]

Kentchang,


Hendrik:

1. You are not there. You don't know.

2. What Sergio do for his organization and between him and Gm Lee Kong is Strictly their business .

Thank you for this post Hendrik as it goes to show just how big of a liar and user/ taker you are!

Once again your very own words come back at you to shoot you down! You never learn do you Hendrik???:confused:


Hendrik

1. You are not there. You don't know.

No Hendrick. I was not there but then my little buddy neither were you so how can you talk about this? I know, I know, Sergio told you right? Well we have all seen just how reliable Sergio's words have been (Weng Chun / Black Flag etc)?

No I was not there Hendrik but I did get Sifu Lee Kong's thoughts and reply on the matter and I would place more faith (100%) in what Sifu Lee Kong had to say about it then what you and Sergio had to say anytime and anywhere!

Let me remind you yet again again Hendrik "Lee Kong said you are a mouse, who likes to take things from others and that you should be ignored completely" so why shouldn't I ignore you completely? Lee Kong says your of no consequence and that your just a "taker", a "user" and not worth the time nor energy!

8468

By the way, you have still not directly answered Sifu Lee Kong's assertion about you as shown plainly and clearly above .... hmmm I wonder why?


Hendrik:

2. What Sergio do for his organization and between him and Gm Lee Kong is Strictly their business

Okay Hendrik, so why did you and Sergio feel a need to publicize Sergio's "Business" her on this very forum and thread??? Why? Because you felt it would justify your cause and twisted words only to see it backfire on you both massively!


Both me and Sifu Sunny So have been training White Crane intensively and it's curriculum is now with the agreement of GM Lee Kong an official part of the IWKA technician and master programms.

Fact: At no time does Sifu Lee Kong ENDORSE Sergio's Wing Chun nor Sergio's IWKA for teaching Sifu Lee Kong's White Crane as Sergio (and you Hendrik by posting it here) falsely implied in the post here!!! That is hardly the act or words of the honourable!!!

I didn't post this. You did therefore making it the business of everyone who views this forum!

You and Sergio also used the good name of Sifu Lee Kong in a truly disrespectful and wrongful attempt at providing "support" or backing of your twisted views, How terribly using and disrespectful of you to Master Lee Kong and all who have viewed this!

Then after disrespectfully using Sifu Lee Kong's name you post the following statement by Sergio:


Stated by Sergio & Posted here by Hendrik ( * Still trying to use Sifu Lee Kong's name for their political agenda ... have you guys no honour!!!)

the last thing we want is to drag respectable grandmasters like GM FU of Emei or GM Lee Kong of Fujian White Crane into a political issue.

Really Hendrik??? Then why are you and Sergio continuing to attempt to using your own words "drag respectable grandmasters like GM FU of Emei or GM Lee Kong of Fujian White Crane into a political issue":confused:

Even now you continue to use Sifu Lee Kong's name well after Sifu Lee Kong himself has totally refuted your use of him in connection to your agenda!

Hendrik I put it to you plainly, clearly and factually ... have you no honor? have you no respect for Sifu Lee Kong? Have you no self-respect?

So in keeping with your mate Sergio's post, you Hendrick should apologise on a public level to Sifu Lee Kong for using his name for your political agenda.

Again Hendrik:


Remember, Lee Kong said:

"Lee Kong said you are a mouse, who likes to take things from others

8467

[Paddington]

Ron, it is clear that you are not going to get the kind of response you would like from Hendrik. Personally, I grow tired of this constant banter and that includes Hendrik's persistence with respects to grasping for 'credibility', 'origin' and 'providence' . I think the only fair way to measure Hendrik is to focus on his ideas about how wing chun should be taught; does it allow students to progress quickly? Is the art enhanced and disseminated efficiently? Does it lead to competent wing chun practitioners? These should be the terms of reference by which a critique proper should be formulated.

[Minghequan]

8471

I grow tired of his lies and misrepresentations

[Paddington]

I grow tired of his lies and misrepresentations

That maybe so but it does not mean you have to engage in the type of behaviour that you are exhibiting.

[KPM]

That maybe so but it does not mean you have to engage in the type of behaviour that you are exhibiting.

I agree with Paddington. And I grow tired of your multiple repeat posts on various threads and juvenile taunts and responses.

[zuti car]

I agree with Paddington. And I grow tired of your multiple repeat posts on various threads and juvenile taunts and responses.

On the other hand , he proved Hendrik is a fraud .

[Minghequan]

My "behaviour" is a direct response to the false, lying behaviour of Hendrik's ... and certainly more factual than his writings of mythology. And may I add, far more reasonable, factual and clear than any of the gibberish, maturity and dribble of lies as told by Hendrik.


I agree with Paddington. And I grow tired of your multiple repeat posts on various threads and juvenile taunts and responses.

My "multiple repeat posts on various threads and juvenile taunts and responses???" Really? No I mean ..... really?

And what of the non-stop, never-ending spamming of all the threads on Wing Chun here by Hendrik? Your not tired of them? Wow that's some display of fairness and reality for you!

Go over this forum and count the amount of posts by Hendrik all largely around the same subject and compare them to my own modest efforts! include the number of Threads started by Hendrik.

Juvenile taunts? Don't look in the mirror all that often do you Keith? Look at the "juvenile taunts and responses" by yourself and then add to them the same in Hendrik's posts.

KPM you can always choose not to read the posts and in your own words ... move on ... that shouldn't be too hard for you now should it? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Daniel Fong]

1. Photos from Penany marital art magazine in 1970s, not Hong Kong New Martial Hero magazine,

2. Only Yeung Kam Cheong was assisting Cho Hung Choi teaching, not Hendrik. Also, Yeung was also the one teachiing Hendrik in the class.

3. Yeung was his real teacher rather than Cho Hung Choi

4. Hendrik showed up just after Yeung passed away.

5. Hendrik authorization to teach was doubted already.

8497

8498

8499

8500

8501

[theo]

So these pictures prove what exactly?

Cho hong choi said in a written letter Hendrik could teach

If Hendrik showed up after yeung passed away how could he learn from him ?



1. Photos from Penany marital art magazine in 1970s, not Hong Kong New Martial Hero magazine,

2. Only Yeung Kam Cheong was assisting Cho Hung Choi teaching, not Hendrik. Also, Yeung was also the one teachiing Hendrik in the class.

3. Yeung was his real teacher rather than Cho Hung Choi

4. Hendrik showed up just after Yeung passed away.

5. Hendrik authorization to teach was doubted already.

8497

8498

8499

8500

8501

[Paddington]

[...]
And what of the non-stop, never-ending spamming of all the threads on Wing Chun here by Hendrik? Your not tired of them? Wow that's some display of fairness and reality for you!
[...]

You don't have to read his posts and if you want to challenge him so that others, as you say, don't fall for his 'lies', then do that in moderation; you don't need to repeat the same things multiple times in a thread and the use of cartoons is childish. You are also perfectly free to start your own threads on other themes, say the closing sections of the empty hand forms and how it relates to pumping blood as well as preparing the wrists for weapon work, etc. Perhaps if you started some of your own threads with your original thoughts you could help us balance out Hendrik's rapid posting.

[KPM]

My "behaviour" is a direct response to the false, lying behaviour of Hendrik's ... and certainly more factual than his writings of mythology. And may I add, far more reasonable, factual and clear than any of the gibberish, maturity and dribble of lies as told by Hendrik.



My "multiple repeat posts on various threads and juvenile taunts and responses???" Really? No I mean ..... really?

And what of the non-stop, never-ending spamming of all the threads on Wing Chun here by Hendrik? Your not tired of them? Wow that's some display of fairness and reality for you!

Go over this forum and count the amount of posts by Hendrik all largely around the same subject and compare them to my own modest efforts! include the number of Threads started by Hendrik.

Juvenile taunts? Don't look in the mirror all that often do you Keith? Look at the "juvenile taunts and responses" by yourself and then add to them the same in Hendrik's posts.

KPM you can always choose not to read the posts and in your own words ... move on ... that shouldn't be too hard for you now should it? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Who is the one posting mouse cartoons over and over? Who is the one repeating things over and over highlighted and bolded in red letters?...practically shouting on the internet? Who is the one doing everything they can to slander and smear someone else? Not me. Not Hendrik. Not Zuti. Not Paddington. Not Robert. Not Twen. Not JP. Yeah, I get tired of Hendrik posting the same thing over and over as well. I get tired of Hendrik refusing to answer straight-forward questions. But at least Hendrik isn't acting like a 14 year old! ;)

[Hendrik]

1. Photos from Penany marital art magazine in 1970s, not Hong Kong New Martial Hero magazine,

2. Only Yeung Kam Cheong was assisting Cho Hung Choi teaching, not Hendrik. Also, Yeung was also the one teachiing Hendrik in the class.

3. Yeung was his real teacher rather than Cho Hung Choi

4. Hendrik showed up just after Yeung passed away.

5. Hendrik authorization to teach was doubted already.

8497

8498

8499

8500

8501


Great post,

Same old stories from a person who want to lower my generation in the family tree , so that he can claim to be the only grandmaster .




Who am I?

Why am I show up here in this Penang martial art competition formal booklet with my sifu in the mid 1970s Instead of others?

[Paddington]

Great post,

Same old stories from a person who want to lower my generation in the family tree , so that he can claim to be the only grandmaster .




Who am I?

Why am I show up here in this Penang martial art competition formal booklet with my sifu in the mid 1970s Instead of others?


Hendrik, the items in that picture do not look like a booklet. Looking at it it seems that photos have been placed side by side on some type of table rather than in a booklet of some sort.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, the items in that picture do not look like a booklet. Looking at it it seems that photos have been placed side by side on some type of table rather than in a booklet of some sort.

I cut it that way so that one can see the reverse photo from Dato Png the Shao Lin Grandmaster of Penang Malaysia .

Let people who is interested to go checked with Shao Lin Penang to verify it.


Here is the Penang Shaolin , website contact them to verify the 1970 Penang Booklet Dato Png is in and flip it to see of Hendrik is there.

http://www.saolimpenang.com

That simple,



Why trust me?

Get a third party and multiple source to verify.

Go to Penang to verify with Shaolin kept documents, and my sihengs .

[theo]

Lot of people like to talk about proof here but don't even bother to check all the sources



I cut it that way so that one can see the reverse photo from Dato Png the Shao Lin Grandmaster of Penang Malaysia .

Let people who is interested to go checked with Shao Lin Penang to verify it.


Here is the Penang Shaolin , website contact them to verify the 1970 Penang Booklet Dato Png is in and flip it to see of Hendrik is there.

http://www.saolimpenang.com

That simple,



Why trust me?

Get a third party and multiple source to verify.

Go to Penang to verify with Shaolin kept documents, and my sihengs .

[Hendrik]

Lot of people like to talk about proof here but don't even bother to check all the sources

Take a look all the smearing and accusation to proof me wrong since months ago.

They pick on anything they can imagine, twisting anything they can twist, lie about things they present in the past , but
What evidence have they present? And what volume of evidence from multiple sources I have shared?

They even try to discredit my late sifu, but now using my late sifu as tool try to discredit me. Well their agenda is clear. The Wck researchers will write this in history of our era.



Why dont anyone ask those who claim to be grandmasters to provide their present in 1970 to show their claim is legit?
I show mine.

[zuti car]

T


Why dont anyone show?
I show mine.

Sorry , but I refuse to show mine , it is not nice to do that in public

[Hendrik]

Sorry , but I refuse to show mine , it is not nice to do that in public

Sure,

What can anyone expect from you?

[zuti car]

Sure,

What can anyone expect from you?

Sorry to disappoint you ...

[Daniel Fong]

Take a look all the smearing and accusation to proof me wrong since months ago.

They pick on anything they can imagine, twisting anything they can twist, lie about things they present in the past , but
What evidence have they present? And what volume of evidence from multiple sources I have shared?

They even try to discredit my late sifu, but now using my late sifu as tool try to discredit me. Well their agenda is clear. The Wck researchers will write this in history of our era.



Why dont anyone ask those who claim to be grandmasters to provide their present in 1970 to show their claim is legit?
I show mine.

1. Are you lying to Sifu Yung in the following email? On point #3, you should be working fulltime in a temple, as a fulltime buddhist, not here to promoting your created Emei with YKWCK.

2. Why did you go to Sifu Yung and stay with him for few years ? For what ?



Hendrik.
To MeRobert ChuJack Chang
Feb 17
Wayne,

1. Be able to make Happy is a great thing Robert and I will do.

2. Great that you met Sergio and have first hand understanding on him and the possibility for further program. My best wishes for you and him. I am sure there are alots of things you can teaches him on the history and culture of Wck. Also, you guys sure will come up with good videos for Wck history and SCWC to share with the world.

3. I have made my decision to wash my hand on Wck and become a full time Buddhist since my mission in Wck is completed. That is what I like to do here on with lots of good memories in Wck.



Best regards
Hendrik

Sent from my iPad

[Happy Tiger]

Hendrik has been on the hotseat many times re his linage over the decades. He is for real.

[kentchang]

That book...


Originally Posted by zuti car
You used that book as a foundation of your research , you posted that as a support to your claims , so , why is such a problem for you to give the location of that artifact , that would be a huge step in proving your theories have some base in reality . So , once again , please provide address or full name of the museum , stop avoiding the answer.

Why couldn't Hendrik tell you anything more about that book?

Please check this out, previously unknown information soon comes to light.


Hendrik Santo
2013-12-06 16:19
Hendrik Santo
Wayne,
If you have time, can you please scan these from kong suk book for me?
明勢法
頭手身足勢出力
沉身聚氣呼吸發力
入勢要法
功法篇－功力訓練概論
丹田提氣術
發力訓練
打擊力（短勁）與發放力（長勁）
理論篇
勁力之道
子午歸中與守中用中
叫應、和順與整體力
寸勁與節力
練氣與養氣
隨筆篇
漫談點穴與截脈
擷粹篇
學以致用訣要
一、有形打形，無形打影
Thanks!
If you don't have time , don't worry about it . I will order the book.
I just want to read kong suk mind on how he think
Wayne Yung
2013-12-06 16:21
Wayne Yung
OK!
Hendrik Santo
2013-12-06 16:22
Hendrik Santo
Thanks !
I want to see how close or far is our ebook cocept with his. So far seem close
Wayne Yung
2013-12-06 16:24
Wayne Yung
You have new investigation project now.
Hendrik Santo
2013-12-06 16:25
Hendrik Santo
ahaha, I am just steal his kungfuH. If I got the book, I think I can do it in a night. Hahaha
Wayne Yung
2013-12-06 16:26
Wayne Yung
Terrible guy!!!
I think I don't need to steal, and I just ask him. no one night, just at once.
hahaha....
Hendrik Santo
2013-12-06 16:28
Hendrik Santo
Hahaha. It is better to ask. Book is not clear

[kentchang]

Wing Chun, also romanised as Ving Tsun or Wing Tsun,; is a concept-based Chinese martial art and form of self-defense utilising both striking and grappling while specialising in real world, close-range combat....

Clearing the air...people need to fight their own battles.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67638-Sergio-Fujian-White-Crane-report/page7

Wing Chun expert?


Originally posted by Hendrik
Live is very simple,

Either one honest to tell what one found as it is or one lie and twisting words to serve ones own private agenda.

Some try to protect the facts as much as possible for the future generation.
Some goes as far as doing everything trying to destroy the ancient culture heritage for their own private agenda.


I leave it for the Wck researchers and historian to judge what is what and who is contribute to what.




To those who team up to smear and falsely accuse me, thinking they discredit me will discredit the facts ,

I would like to suggest ,

Ask yourself ,
what are you afraid of?
Why do you have such fear on the release of Wck facts to the public , and lead you to do what you have done?


Wing Chun researcher?


Sergio Fujian White Crane report
From Sergio today:



A great Day today where I discussed White Crane indepth with GM Lee Kong and Sifu Sunny So and also went through the Kuit of Yik Kam Siu Nim Tau and the form.

GM Fu of Emei saw his art in the Yik Kam set and GM Lee Kong of White Crane saw also clearly the White Crane DNA.

It's been around 6 years since I first met GM Lee Kong and I always enjoy the time with him discussing and training this beautiful art and treasure of Chinese Kung Fu. Both me and Sifu Sunny So have been training White Crane intensively and it's curriculum is now with the agreement of GM Lee Kong an official part of the IWKA technician and master programms.


To understand our beloved art beter we have to know where we are coming from and the art of GM Lee Kong is the White Crane system before it got split into the 5 seperate lineages so Fujian White Crane in it's purest form.


No Ermei, just pure Wing Chun!

But this week, it's not just wishful thinking. There's a lot to look forward to.


Originally posted by ccwayne
On this matter, the victim is Sergio. I had already phoned Sergio's sifu So 6 weeks ago to ask Sergio slowing down the production on the True orign of wck video, I asked his sifu to advise Sergio thinking over a bit, reasoning, then continue. Sergio, did I do that ?

Questions I made to his sifu to Sergio. :
1. Hendrik's ykwc kuen kuit, had been validated or not?
2. No one watched his full set in the past and make mysterious to others because he mentioned a lot and a lot on section 2,3 and 4 in years. If he intends to let wckners learn, why not opening it up with his kuit. Why he goes to Sergio? why he stay with me for years.
3. How long he stayed with Cho hung choy before he went to US? how deep he learnt his ykwc
4. ykwc from Cho's family, interesting things, cho family ones, form and kuit are not authenic, but Hendrik holds the full set,
5. Why only he knows emei, but no other lineages, even yik Kam, and Cho's family, Law's family scwc never knows any emei. Before his ykwc kuit released to the public, is it possible some emei like kuit had been modified then it makes it not look like Cho's family kuit ?

[Chun Ki]

Hendrik Santos VS. Kenneth Xiang Fuk Lin

HS: Southeast Asia - Malyasia
KL: South east Asia - Indonesia

HS: associate with same unqualified researcher Sergio Iadarola
KL: associate with same unqualified researcher Sergio Iadarola

HS: Claims to be successor
KL: Claims to be successor

HS: says Emie is Wing Chun
KL: says HKB is Wing Chun

HS: Forgery of documentation (Zuti car’s document refrence, written by non-chinese person and not 19th century writing, written in 21st century modern simplified Chinese characters.) HS so called historical document does not match historical era.
KL: Forgery of Vikoga Wing Chun material, forgery of Hun Mun, forgery of 18 Lohan, 5 Ancestors, ect.

HS: says he has the true Wing Chun.
KL: says he has the true Wing Chun.

HS: Steals SCWC 1890 material then twists and changes it to 1894 kuit. More Forgery.
KL: Steal years of internet, books, video material to make many websites, names. Ongoing twisting, worming and stretching his HKB his-story.

HS: baise to Master Yung but Master Yung publicly denouncement HS. HS’s Cho family publicly denounce HS.
KL: KL’s previously claimed successor and inheritor of HKB, GM Tio makes a public denouncement of KL. KL’s Sihings publicly denounce KL.

HS: Claims baise to Yung then disrespects him later.
KL: Claims baise to Tio and 7 hole oath then disrespects him later.

HS: Wants to become a big part of Wing Chun history
KL: Wants to become a big part of Wing Chun history

HS: Uses non-Wing Chun people to endorse emie as Wing Chun orginal.
KL: Uses non-Wing Chun old HKB men to endorse HKB is orginal Wing Chun.

HS: Emie master saw HS paper and highlights a few words then jumps to conclusion that Emie is Wing Chun orgin but Emie master does not know Wing Chun. HS uses non-Wing Chun people to validate Wing Chun.
KL: VTM makes fake report to jump to conclusion that HKB is orginal Wing Chun. KL uses VTM’s material and resells it to VTM to get non-Wing Chun students to validate HKB is Wing Chun. Just see there huge youtube video testimony propaganda.

HS: uses Emie master to sign paper that Emie is Wing Chun orgin.
KL: uses Master Tio to sign that HKB is 5-flags Wing Chun and orginal Wing Chun.

HS: uses Cho family kuit and changes it to match Emie kuit.
KL: uses HKB, changes history and stories to make up 5-flags Wing Chun. HKB = 18 lohan, 5 ancetor, Vikoga Wing Chun, ect

HS: No Emie in Cho Gar Wing Chun or Cho Hung Choi Wing Chun or Yik Kam Wing Chun.
KL: No Wing Chun in HKB. Old men cant perform SLT, CK, BJ.

HS: Rename/re-branding things that already exist
KL: Rename/re-branding things that already exist

HS: word play
KL: word play

HS: Emie false stories
KL: 5 flags Wing Chun false stories

HS: Fake buddist
KL: Fake buddist

HS: Fraud, liar
KL: Fraud, liar

HS: Mouse
KL: Rat

[VT Andy]

Hendrik Santos VS. Kenneth Xiang Fuk Lin

HS: Southeast Asia - Malyasia
KL: South east Asia - Indonesia

HS: associate with same unqualified researcher Sergio Iadarola
KL: associate with same unqualified researcher Sergio Iadarola

HS: Claims to be successor
KL: Claims to be successor

HS: says Emie is Wing Chun
KL: says HKB is Wing Chun

HS: Forgery of documentation (Zuti car’s document refrence, written by non-chinese person and not 19th century writing, written in 21st century modern simplified Chinese characters.) HS so called historical document does not match historical era.
KL: Forgery of Vikoga Wing Chun material, forgery of Hun Mun, forgery of 18 Lohan, 5 Ancestors, ect.

HS: says he has the true Wing Chun.
KL: says he has the true Wing Chun.

HS: Steals SCWC 1890 material then twists and changes it to 1894 kuit. More Forgery.
KL: Steal years of internet, books, video material to make many websites, names. Ongoing twisting, worming and stretching his HKB his-story.

HS: baise to Master Yung but Master Yung publicly denouncement HS. HS’s Cho family publicly denounce HS.
KL: KL’s previously claimed successor and inheritor of HKB, GM Tio makes a public denouncement of KL. KL’s Sihings publicly denounce KL.

HS: Claims baise to Yung then disrespects him later.
KL: Claims baise to Tio and 7 hole oath then disrespects him later.

HS: Wants to become a big part of Wing Chun history
KL: Wants to become a big part of Wing Chun history

HS: Uses non-Wing Chun people to endorse emie as Wing Chun orginal.
KL: Uses non-Wing Chun old HKB men to endorse HKB is orginal Wing Chun.

HS: Emie master saw HS paper and highlights a few words then jumps to conclusion that Emie is Wing Chun orgin but Emie master does not know Wing Chun. HS uses non-Wing Chun people to validate Wing Chun.
KL: VTM makes fake report to jump to conclusion that HKB is orginal Wing Chun. KL uses VTM’s material and resells it to VTM to get non-Wing Chun students to validate HKB is Wing Chun. Just see there huge youtube video testimony propaganda.

HS: uses Emie master to sign paper that Emie is Wing Chun orgin.
KL: uses Master Tio to sign that HKB is 5-flags Wing Chun and orginal Wing Chun.

HS: uses Cho family kuit and changes it to match Emie kuit.
KL: uses HKB, changes history and stories to make up 5-flags Wing Chun. HKB = 18 lohan, 5 ancetor, Vikoga Wing Chun, ect

HS: No Emie in Cho Gar Wing Chun or Cho Hung Choi Wing Chun or Yik Kam Wing Chun.
KL: No Wing Chun in HKB. Old men cant perform SLT, CK, BJ.

HS: Rename/re-branding things that already exist
KL: Rename/re-branding things that already exist

HS: word play
KL: word play

HS: Emie false stories
KL: 5 flags Wing Chun false stories

HS: Fake buddist
KL: Fake buddist

HS: Fraud, liar
KL: Fraud, liar

HS: Mouse
KL: Rat
Uncanny how similar they are. Some may think they are related because they are so similar!

[VT Andy]

Hello Sifu Yung,

1. Your Mun's rules - not Robert Chu Mun's rules. He doesn't know anything about SCWC and baisee. Now, I fully understand Lee Moy Shan and Moy Yat's how they think about him. Robert Chu hid his CSL wck background and ask for baisee. As I told him my sifu memory lost illness, he still ask form baisee, what for? If you know SCWC, you should know my sifu already getting retired in 2008 and making public announcements.

2. How many hours I met with Robert Chu face to face. How much I can discuss with you about history (answer is never)? How many times you meet my sifu ( just once) and how long( less than 2 hours) ?

3. I never said Sergio video put me down, my first response to this just the content seems from the ebook, the two guys Robert Chu and Jim Roselando, I never work with. and my ending statement on my first posting is "Interesting..." that's it. No more I would do, but interesting things, Hendrik response in the KFO, not Sergio. Then I knows who is the boss of these two videos. Robert, please don't use your own words to make another meaning.

4. Robert Chu told me in the hotel room in October, he didn't see Hendrik full set SNT and ask me weather I watched it or not.

5. Why these twp top wck researchers(they think) and top wck guys spending time on me in the last few years, no others from USA. Then baisee, then take, borrow, copy, paste, edit, save stuff becoming theirs ,and make public announcement and leaving. Robert, did I need to post our(you, Robert and your student Jack) emails and messages out about what this fake buddhist done, his disrepect and dishonest to SCWC, after his announcement to quit SCWC in January, and what you said on about Hendrik.

These are all your karmar what you had done before, in the past, your dishonesty to others, maybe in the last 30 years.

Lee Moy Shan and Moy Yat both disgusted by Robert Chu. Robert Chu did not learn much from them kung fu otherwise due to Robert’s severe character issues. Issue such as being Qishimiezu.

Today, what he does with others dealing with the SCWC document betraying SCWC. Too bad... Are they both Qishimiezu (欺師滅祖) ?

My father taught me in kung fu culture we must respect what is earn must be earn the right way and understand the way of the old generation culture plus traditions. Sifu Yung is definitely taken advantage of by Robert and hendrik and those two connect with airhead celebrity Sergio to change history of Wing Chun with flakey “research”. I learn very young that if I do not understand the culture I will become very irresponsible and incapable to handle kung fu knowledge - not even can teach right. This is the way to do things right avoid road to Qishimiezu.

How Robert Students then become victim of Qishimiezu culture would be very unfortunate but hopefully not the case. I see lots in this generation cannot demonstrate responsible ethic with knowledge just cheat and stealing from the Sifu and bully him while betray lineage ancestors is what Qishimiezu means 欺師滅祖

It is common info that Robert training of Kulo Wing Chun was by a chef and not done well he RELY on notes to remember 40 points. How so called researcher and sifu level person cannot remember just 40 points? Can’t do that not qualified to retain a whole VT system in his mouse brain. Sifu level person do not need notes to remember how to do things certain ways shows he do not have such knowledge in his head. “take, borrow, copy, paste, edit, save stuff becoming theirs” and he always having excuse why.

This always have been and is how he do things from then up to now still. Regarding that WCI #16 issue, Ho Kam Ming is my Sigung and we know that Hawkin Cheung only learn by few months with Yip Man before hawkin move to Australia for some time learning karate. Hawkin’s WC end up incomplete having request to learn Bat Jam Doa from HKM. Hawkin Cheung WC is incomplete. Robert’s WC never complete from beginning to end under any single Sifu only “take, borrow, copy, paste, edit, save stuff becoming theirs” like a mouse in community. Is that what is his research method it is more like scavenger bottom feeding method.

RC:
Wayne, your ruthlessness knows no bounds, and your insecurities show. Your mental and physical health have deteriorated. Holding on to hatred shows your character. You think you're being the protector or punishing traitors? Your actions have undone your standing. scwc had a great legacy, but your actions bring shame and disgrace to your system, and implying you are gatekeeper is disgraceful. I am sure inHK people know you for the Fat Rat that you are. A Hung Mun wannabe thug and bully.
Lots of people know Robert well known to be crap talker about lots of people in public for 30+yrs bragging to be some expert on each persons business such giant ego and low class always cut down everyone. How is he consider to be decent only by same types of people like him. Decent? Hahaha what a big joke. Fake researcher = mouse scavenging for crumbs. Sifu Yung prove that Robert Chu never change never learn only copy paste repeat, and Yung is his latest victim but karma come around like a mouse trap on him.

Yik Kam future generation almost become victim of Hendrik's polluting of Yik Kam Cho Gar with Emei nonsense. Look at the bigger picture for all these weeks and months and years, now HS + RC + SI = change Wing Chun future by burning down Ip Man and Leung Bik legacy with fake "research" try to laugh all the way to bank. these mice are not decent not even to be admired. HS WC = incomplete. RC WC = incomplete. SI WC = incomplete. All fakes.

[Jim Roselando]

Inside the Cho family

Lately, if you haven't notice, there has been a lot of battling going on between the Cho family. I would like to bring some facts about the Cho family to light with the goal of ending this nonsense.

Cho family China has clearly acknowledged some important info that people should be aware of when researching that lineage. The reality is this,

"They have no idea who taught Yik Kam and where their art comes from!"

The only thing they know is that Yik Kam was a member of the Red Boat and that he was taught by three brothers of which one is a mystery.

"The above information was published by Cao (Cho) Guo Rong in Chinese Traditional Kung Fu magazine volume 2 no 2."

So, why is this important to know? The Cho family elders were said to train directly with the founder of Choy Li Fut. Today they still preserve their Choy Li Fut Kung Fu but all Cho family stories state; None of the Cho family could touch Yik Kam in Gong Sao. Why? Was it because he was using a different Nei Gong & Dynamics in his SLT?

Yik Kam passed the Red Boat SLT & Poetry to the Cho family but today their is a feud going on because of the modern research into the possible origins of the Yik Kam Kung Fu.

Some Cho legends state Yik Kam was taught by Yim & Leung on the Junks but there are obvious generations missing in that tree but the reality is the Cho family do not know who taught Yik Kam???

Cho Hung Choi believed the Yik Kam SLT had a deep internal cultivation but was not sure what or where it came from? One day his pupil, Hendrik Santo, found similarities between the SLT Poetry & Emei Poetry which was the start of linking Yik Kam SLT & Emei Snake and then Fujian Crane. Yes, this was the beginning of this possible connection and research.

So, all this bickering between member of the Cho family denying any connections is fine but when you openly acknowledge you have no clue where your art comes from then why attack someone who is trying to find out/explain his arts ancestry?

It doesn't make any sense. Its classic "Protect The Rice Bowl" rather then being honest....

Yes! It's true, maybe most of the Cho family never discussed Emei & Fujian but it does not mean the theory isnt plausible and the research isn't valid. You are free to present your own research but at least be honest and tell people you have no clue who taught Yik Kam or where his Wing Chun came from rather than argue over others research and opinions that are possible.

If you don't agree that's fine but be honest and just say: The Cho family doesn't know their own history versus smear honest research.

[Vajramusti]

Best to discuss the back and forth retorts in private.

Its way past being boring.

[KPM]

Best to discuss the back and forth retorts in private.

Its way past being boring.

I disagree. Wayne's boys have been posting all kinds of cr@p publically. Its good to hear the other side of the story.

[Vajramusti]

I disagree. Wayne's boys have been posting all kinds of cr@p publically. Its good to hear the other side of the story.
---------------------------------------------

Muddled and way past boring on all sides.

[Wayfaring]

Best to discuss the back and forth retorts in private.

Its way past being boring.

Well to me some of the chest puffiness is boring, but reading through all the detail is kind of interesting. Apparently ALL CMA's face similar problems of documenting tall stories from more than 2 generations ago.

[zuti car]

Apparently ALL CMA's face similar problems of documenting tall stories from more than 2 generations ago.

Nope, they just have problem documenting things that never existed :D

[JPinAZ]

Cho Hung Choi believed the Yik Kam SLT had a deep internal cultivation but was not sure what or where it came from? One day his pupil, Hendrik Santo, found similarities between the SLT Poetry & Emei Poetry which was the start of linking Yik Kam SLT & Emei Snake and then Fujian Crane. Yes, this was the beginning of this possible connection and research.

This is fine - it is research into Yik Kam's personal wing chun only and only a possible connection to HIS own individual branch of WC. If it's kept there, then fine. Unfortunately, it isn't

Besides all of the "who stole what from whom", who's lying about what, who learned what kung fu from what book, Bai Si ceremonies via email & internet and all other silly nonsense, the issue many people have (including myself) is when Hendrik & Co. applies these unproven 'findings' as the source of ALL wing chun. Then comes Sergio when he shares Hendrik's findings says he's discovered the real source of ALL wing chun - once again (for what, the third time now?!?). FACT is, Hendrik can barely speak for his own lineage, let alone any other. And neither of these guys speak for either lineage of wing chun I have studied - let alone ALL wing chun.

This whole thing is a joke by a bunch of clowns IMO. Are you going to back up these claims too?

[Vajramusti]

This is fine - it is research into Yik Kam's personal wing chun only and only a possible connection to HIS own individual branch of WC. If it's kept there, then fine. Unfortunately, it isn't

Besides all of the "who stole what from whom", who's lying about what, who learned what kung fu from what book, Bai Si ceremonies via email & internet and all other silly nonsense, the issue many people have (including myself) is when Hendrik & Co. applies these unproven 'findings' as the source of ALL wing chun. Then comes Sergio when he shares Hendrik's findings says he's discovered the real source of ALL wing chun - once again (for what, the third time now?!?). FACT is, Hendrik can barely speak for his own lineage, let alone any other. And neither of these guys speak for either lineage of wing chun I have studied - let alone ALL wing chun.

This whole thing is a joke by a bunch of clowns IMO. Are you going to back up these claims too?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty well sums up the current mess. It has become a laughing stock and the thread should be locked up and closed.
Perhaps even deleted. Moderator.......?

[JPinAZ]

I agree on it being locked, but not sure it should be deleted - I rarely feel we need THAT level of moderation (at least not on this thread). Sometimes it's good to preserve this type of dialog so people in the future have the chance to see all sides and decide for themselves what bit of nonsense makes sense to them :)

[Vajramusti]

I agree on it being locked, but not sure it should be deleted - I rarely feel we need THAT level of moderation (at least not on this thread). Sometimes it's good to preserve this type of dialog so people in the future have the chance to see all sides and decide for themselves what bit of nonsense makes sense to them :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


OK with that.

[Vajramusti]

I agree on it being locked, but not sure it should be deleted - I rarely feel we need THAT level of moderation (at least not on this thread). Sometimes it's good to preserve this type of dialog so people in the future have the chance to see all sides and decide for themselves what bit of nonsense makes sense to them :)
--------------------------------

ok with that.

[VT Andy]

Hello everyone,

I don't agree for my thread to be delete. There is lots history and good informations and discussion going on as good record on where peoples are with views and opinons, regardless who think bad or good it is a great thread and record of what has gone on being shared by all sides on this topic controversy.

This forum is good for debate and sharing. I think to preserves this thread is good reflection on how this forum can be place for exchange and action. Time for tea!

[GlennR]

This is fine - it is research into Yik Kam's personal wing chun only and only a possible connection to HIS own individual branch of WC. If it's kept there, then fine. Unfortunately, it isn't

Besides all of the "who stole what from whom", who's lying about what, who learned what kung fu from what book, Bai Si ceremonies via email & internet and all other silly nonsense, the issue many people have (including myself) is when Hendrik & Co. applies these unproven 'findings' as the source of ALL wing chun. Then comes Sergio when he shares Hendrik's findings says he's discovered the real source of ALL wing chun - once again (for what, the third time now?!?). FACT is, Hendrik can barely speak for his own lineage, let alone any other. And neither of these guys speak for either lineage of wing chun I have studied - let alone ALL wing chun.

This whole thing is a joke by a bunch of clowns IMO. Are you going to back up these claims too?

Nicely summed up.
It really is like watching a car accident, you shouldnt watch but you can help but look at it.

[anerlich]

I don't agree for my thread to be delete.


I agree.


There is lots history and good informations and discussion going on as good record on where peoples are with views and opinons, regardless who think bad or good it is a great thread and record of what has gone on being shared by all sides on this topic controversy.

You have to be joking. It's a load of whining, grandiose claims, recriminations and counter-recriminations. If this is your idea of a great thread you need to raise your standards a long way.

[kentchang]

Nicely summed up.
It really is like watching a car accident, you shouldnt watch but you can help but look at it.

I don't have any issue for people presenting their new findings on history on WCK with the exception of Sergio's latest report "the origin of WCK."

In multiple occasions, Sergio has told the WCK community that he had found the true WCK, and that Yip Man didn't complete his WCK. Instead, Yip Man blended it with Chi Sim Weng Chun etc. Unfortunately people have been fooled by the stories from Andreas Hoffman and Kenneth Lin. All of these reports are untrue and made up for the purpose to make money off of unknowing students. For more information please look at the link below:

http://protectingrealshaolin.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/you-are-no-buddhist-you-are- no-chi-sim-successor/ ...

With the evidence being presented here by all parties, Sergio presents another report. His reports to the public were falsely influenced by Hendrik on the misconception of Ermie as the origin of WCK.

As the general public, we can only get our info from all these different people here. I can appreciate all parties' opinions and their input regarding these differences and details. This might sound a little strange, but even Hendrik could benefit from Sifu Wayne Yung's posts. Without that, Hendrik would have never known that Robert Chu was never his real friend. By learning all of the details, this allows us to place all the pieces together and find a definitive conclusion.

The most valuable lesson to learn here is that the freedom of speech is very important. This thread allows the public to be informed and educated. People always have choices to decide whether or not to participate. However, I disagree with people influencing others to not make their own decisions. Telling people to not read any threads or express their opinion is wrong. For higher education, we should always open it up for others views whether you like it or not. Without any discussion, we will never figure out a solution to any of the problems. At the end, we all can benefit from both sides and be better understand others about people and issues.

[Minghequan]

The most valuable lesson to learn here is that the freedom of speech is very important. This thread allows the public to be informed and educated. People always have choices to decide whether or not to participate. However, I disagree with people influencing others to not make their own decisions. Telling people to not read any threads or express their opinion is wrong. For higher education, we should always open it up for others views whether you like it or not. Without any discussion, we will never figure out a solution to any of the problems. At the end, we all can benefit from both sides and be better understand others about people and issues.

Very well said! Thank you.

[tc101]

Nicely summed up.
It really is like watching a car accident, you shouldnt watch but you can help but look at it.

I love this stuff. It is very funny.

[zuti car]

I love this stuff. It is very funny.

It is not funny , I was hit by a car last year , believe me , nothing fun in that

[anerlich]

It is not funny , I was hit by a car last year , believe me , nothing fun in that

Sorry to hear that. Maybe a train wreck, then (assuming you haven't been hit by a train)?

8587

[GlennR]

Sorry to hear that. Maybe a train wreck, then (assuming you haven't been hit by a train)?

8587

I got run over by the XPT last year Andrew..... How could you!?!?

[zuti car]

Sorry to hear that. Maybe a train wreck, then (assuming you haven't been hit by a train)?

8587

I have to admit , this is interesting

[wtxs]

It is not funny , I was hit by a car last year , believe me , nothing fun in that

You are so right, hope you've only gotten just minor scratches. By the way, what kind of car hit you? It could have been funny if you where hit by an "zuti car" ... sorry about that, can't help myself, please try not to be upset with me. :o:p:D

[Grumblegeezer]

You are so right, hope you've only gotten just minor scratches. By the way, what kind of car hit you? It could have been funny if you where hit by an "zuti car" ... sorry about that, can't help myself, please try not to be upset with me. :o:p:D

Hey, WTX and all the rest: I just found out that Zuti Car refers to Huang Ti, the Yellow Emperor in Slavic languages! Thought everyone should know just who we are dealing with!!!:

http://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Žuti_car

[zuti car]

Hey, WTX and all the rest: I just found out that Zuti Car refers to Huang Ti, the Yellow Emperor in Slavic languages! Thought everyone should know just who we are dealing with!!!:

http://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Žuti_car

My last name translated on Chinese is Huang , ,using Hendrik's logic it is highly possible that yellow emperor is my ancestor