Question: Better to carry, mace or a knife

[Faux Newbie]

I've been talking about this with friends, as a female friend asked me what to carry, and I favor a knife (I know, some states don't allow this).

What are your thoughts?

What kind of knife?

I don't favor mace because I was once in a car where someone accidentally discharged mace, my window was the only open window, and it was just cracked open, so it all went into my face. It sucked, but not in a way that I felt could be counted on to stop people. Mind you, not all mace is the same.

[GeneChing]

I like knives. Besides I am often called upon to cut stuff - envelopes, boxes, cheese - all kinds of stuff. I used to carry mace when I worked as an usher at a dive 3rd run movie theater. I only used it once to break up a fight there. Mace was a little cumbersome. I use my pocket knife regularly.

[Faux Newbie]

I like knives. Besides I am often called upon to cut stuff - envelopes, boxes, cheese - all kinds of stuff. I used to carry mace when I worked as an usher at a dive 3rd run movie theater. I only used it once to break up a fight there. Mace was a little cumbersome. I use my pocket knife regularly.

Same with me as far as knives. I used to work construction, having a knife was handy on a day to day basis, so I just got used to it.

Ironically, the only time on the job where weapons were an issue, some people attempted to steal my gear from a job site. At the time, I had a massive pry bar and a carpenter's hammer in my hand, this was back when I had Thor hair. The overall Wrath of Odin effect of big nordic looking guy coming in with primitive crush your skull implements meant my tools remained without me even making a move. Perhaps I should tell her to carry those!

[MightyB]

unless you like to spend a lot of time in jail, mace is the better option for non-lethal self defense. If you are at a point where you feel you need to carry a lethal weapon as a deterrent, then get a permit and carry a handgun.

[Faux Newbie]

unless you like to spend a lot of time in jail, mace is the better option for non-lethal self defense. If you are at a point where you feel you need to carry a lethal weapon as a deterrent, then get a permit and carry a handgun.

I can see your point, except that, in a potentially lethal situation, the knife is a better option and has legal grounds that a woman would benefit from more than many men who suffer under proving self defense. In non-life threatening, mace might be better, but having the second if the situation is that serious is problematic.

Additionally, police statistics for decades in both the U.S. and England have shown that the knife tends to win out under 21 feet. I can't recall the name that has gotten, I'll look it up when I get home, but knife wounds tend to be more debilitating, and aim with a gun seems to be heavily adversely affected in such conflicts.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I carry a knife so I am bias.
The crucial element is how quickly you can get to it ( mace, knife, rabid terrier, etc) and how well you can use it.
There are many improvised weapons that may be "better" than mace or a knife.
If you are gonna carry it in your hand, even a good pen or pencil can be effective ( in the right hands), same goes for keys for example.
If you are gonna kept it on your pocket, make sure you can get it out in a crisis.

[Jimbo]

I always carry a knife (a Spyderco). Athough it COULD be used as a weapon, that's not my purpose for carrying it. I use it for cutting tasks. I have carried various knives for over 30 years. IMO, you shouldn't carry a knife strictly as a weapon...it should be primarily a tool. I find myself needing to use my knife several times every day. You become very used to handling your knife and maintaining it (quick access, resharpening when needed, inspecting the lock, etc.).

I also carry pepper spray, as there could be times/situations where that is better. There are other times it could be worse. Some people are unaffected by pepper spray and mace. It can work on an attacking dog, but sometimes not. If it's windy, you may end up spraying yourself, or simply not getting the attacker. It also may not fire when you need it to.

Everything has its advantages and disadvantages.

[GeneChing]

If you are gonna carry it in your hand, even a good pen or pencil can be effective ( in the right hands), same goes for keys for example.

I also carry a tactical pen. Because I'm a writer. And I gotta write a lot of *tactical* stuff a lot. ;)

[RenDaHai]

I think she is better off with mace.

Its something that doesn't occur to a lot of people until they experience it but when called upon to actually USE violence there is a huge psychological barrier against stabbing someone with a knife. Even if you have the knife, you may be psychologically completely unable to use it. If you take it out and find yourself unable to use it you have just made someone very angry and given them a knife AND an excuse to use it and awakened the idea within them.

Mace you will be less hesitant to use....

Unless you mean a medieval Mace... But its somewhat impractical.

[Faux Newbie]

Mace you will be less hesitant to use....

Unless you mean a medieval Mace... But its somewhat impractical.

There's the deterrent factor. I've never heard of a woman carrying a medieval mace getting attacked, ergo, it is the best choice.:D

[Jimbo]

There's the deterrent factor.:D

If it's a knife for self-defense, you shouldn't ever pull it out and threaten with it. Ideally, whether it comes into play or not, they shouldn't even see it.

But yeah, some people may hesitate to use violence with a blade under pressure. Same can be said for someone armed with a firearm, stick/club, or empty-handed martial arts. Also, some of the people you might least expect to handle pressure will act without hesitation.

[SPJ]

What if you drop your knife or "weapon" or it is not available at the moment?

You may like to train knife fighting. But what if you have no knife.

Two things

1. always look for ways to run.

2. look for what is available, a stool, a stick, a piece of rock, sand, etc

Meaning train some rock or sand throwing, train some short stick fighting etc

Carrying a knife around all the time

You may accidentally hurt your self more often then you use it as a deterrent to a crime.

Train to be aware and use the surrounding to your advantage may be more practical.

:rolleyes:

[GLW]

"as a female friend asked me what to carry"

Seems to me to be the key here.

So, you have a female friend and you have NOT indicated that she has any self-defense or martial training.

Ok...so YOU like a knife.

This is NOT a good choice for an untrained person...and definitely not an untrained woman.

First, you have to be able to get to the knife and not injure yourself doing it. Then, you need to be aware that knives are MESSY. You can do a lot of damage with one - but that also means BLOOD. How many untrained...and for that matter trained people...are comfortable with the level of blood that comes with a simple knife confrontation. Blood is also sticky and messy. Old time knife fighters would often train with things like pig bladders filled with blood to get used to the wetness, the stickiness, and the impact all of this would have on their timing and grip of the knife.

Then, being able to get to it, use it without it being seen easily, use it without it being taken from you, and so on. Simply put, too many downside factors for an untrained person. So, recommending a knife and NOT recommending getting trained with it as well is not a good answer.

Mace or pepper spray does take a moment to work. However, it will **** off an attacker...but hopefully not to the point of killing the victim (but, you never know). It can be taken away from a person just like a knife...but it is, unlike a knife, not a killing weapon. And, when mace is out, the assailant WILL be enraged and it will mean usually one of two things...either they will run or they will redouble their determination to do you harm....but NOT necessarily fatal harm. With a knife, the determination to do you harm will more likely turn to fatal ideas. THAT mixed with lack of training and/or squeamishness is a recipe for disaster.

There is often no good response for a person that is untrained...except for them to make a choice and get trained.

[GeneChing]

What if you drop your knife or "weapon" or it is not available at the moment?
You can 'what if' any scenario to death. What if FN's female friend is a chef or a butcher? I'd place my money on a professional who uses a blade everyday over someone with some cursory martial arts training.

Can she carry both? :p

[Faux Newbie]

You can 'what if' any scenario to death. What if FN's female friend is a chef or a butcher? I'd place my money on a professional who uses a blade everyday over someone with some cursory martial arts training.

Can she carry both? :p

In addition to the fact that many women have more practical experience with knives, but women, statistically, are way less likely to be heavily phased at the sight of blood, for obvious reasons.

Not to mention that cutting yourself is way more likely when you're holding the meat you are cutting.

It's very difficult to point a knife the wrong way, very easy to do so with mace.

Taking a knife away is not an easy task if the other person is actually using it offensively.

Of course I am recommending training with the item used. One doesn't need to be a silat master to endanger others with a knife, imo.

[RenDaHai]

First, you have to be able to get to the knife and not injure yourself doing it. Then, you need to be aware that knives are MESSY. You can do a lot of damage with one - but that also means BLOOD. How many untrained...and for that matter trained people...are comfortable with the level of blood that comes with a simple knife confrontation. Blood is also sticky and messy. Old time knife fighters would often train with things like pig bladders filled with blood to get used to the wetness, the stickiness, and the impact all of this would have on their timing and grip of the knife.


"I would not mention or take account of a man for his prowess in running or in wrestling, not even if he had the size and strength of the Cyclopes and could outstrip the wind in the race, nor if he were more handsome than Paris, nor richer than Midas, nor if he had reputation for everything save furious valour. For no man is good in war unless he can endure the sight of bloody slaughter and, standing close, can lunge at the enemy." --- Tyrtaeus, the poet of Sparta c.640 B.c

The oft ignored psychological factor really defines the utility of Martial Arts, and is relative to the person. I agree with all you said above.

[Jimbo]

You can 'what if' any scenario to death. What if FN's female friend is a chef or a butcher? I'd place my money on a professional who uses a blade everyday over someone with some cursory martial arts training.

And that's another point. I'm betting most butchers would be more formidable with a knife than most 'tactical knife' MA instructors.

On another note, it's not so easy to disarm a knife from someone, even an untrained person, as most people, especially MAists, seem to believe. Real life isn't a Steven Seagal/Chuck Norris movie or MA demo. Especially if the knife-wielding person is agitated and/or determined. And if it were that easy, then you should simply be able to re-disarm your attacker and take your knife back. Then he can do the same and the two of you can go back and forth forever.

[Rover]

In the country im living in,carrying things like mace or knife is forbidden,but..
A knife has more potential than a mace to lead the situation into a worse state ; knife can kill.

[GoldenBrain]

You can 'what if' any scenario to death. What if FN's female friend is a chef or a butcher? I'd place my money on a professional who uses a blade everyday over someone with some cursory martial arts training.


And that's another point. I'm betting most butchers would be more formidable with a knife than most 'tactical knife' MA instructors.


I think you are both right. A few years ago this fella who owns an Italian restaurant came into our school. He had some, but very limited MA training and nothing with fighting knives. So, we were working our Kali material one day and decided to do a little end of class rubber knife coated with chalk sparring. Being a chef and culinary knife expert he scored cut after cut on all but the most advanced students. The only difference in the cut locations were the ones on his uniform were life threatening and the ones on the advanced students were mostly in non threatening locations. Still, I'd put my money on him against all but the most advanced knife fighters any day.

As for me and the question of this thread. I always carry a knife or two, so I say knife all the way. I also live in TX so I tend to carry my .40 as well. Really it's more for the animals than people. It be wild down here in the rural south.

[David Jamieson]

I personally never advise anyone to carry a weapon who is not well versed in it anyway.
Having a weapon on your person can often lead to that weapon being used on you.
Better to advocate higher awareness and so on.
TO learn to stay out of sketchy areas, situations.
To learn to be silent when a situation is noyfb.

These kinds of things are much more useful than a weapon.
imo. :)

Having said that, I take my Kung Fu everywhere with me. (even on to planes!)

[GeneChing]

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