Should a Person Just Practice the Pole if there a old man ?

[Firehawk4]

Should a person just practice the Wing Chun pole or other kung fu pole techniques and forms if there a old man ? Instead of doing Kung Fu systems that they could not use in selfdefense ?

[Minghequan]

People are just that .... they are individuals and should practice, learn, express what suits them best and not that defined by a system, Association or style.

[anerlich]

Should a person just practice the Wing Chun pole or other kung fu pole techniques and forms if there a old man ? Instead of doing Kung Fu systems that they could not use in selfdefense ?

Define "old". I'm 59, got my BJJ black belt last year, and expect to be doing it well into my seventies at least.

If your premise is that one's primary aim is self defense, the pole might not be your best choice - it's not that easy to take a long pole on public transport, on a bike, on a plane, etc.

Self defense IMO includes defending yourself against lifestyle related heart disease. You need some sort of weight bearing exercise and something to get you breathing hard at a minimum. Not sure the pole fits best.

If your concern is defense against violent assaults (which you are FAR less likely to die from than lifestyle related diseases or old age) a gun or combat folder might be a more practical weapon. Neither require a lot of fitness or strength to seriously damage another person.

Women don't get old in your universe, huh?

[Firehawk4]

Lets see old maybe 75 and older . Would a staff or a Japanese jo Staff be better for old people than the long pole in seldefense in very violent assaults ?

[anerlich]

Lets see old maybe 75 and older . Would a staff or a Japanese jo Staff be better for old people than the long pole in seldefense in very violent assaults ?

Maybe better to learn to use a walking stick as a weapon ... La Canne being one of many methodologies. Maybe jo.

[Almost A Ghost]

Lets see old maybe 75 and older . Would a staff or a Japanese jo Staff be better for old people than the long pole in seldefense in very violent assaults ?

Escrima/Kali is your best bet if you are going to be carrying around a cane.

[Ali. R]

I’m 50 years old; and I’ll walk with a stick and blade all the time (when walking the dogs) in my neighborhood. But, while in the city, I prefer carrying something that would spin you in a circle and knock you straight on your a$$, but he’s right; “Kali (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kj2aISXPK0) would be the way to go”.


Take care,

[KPM]

One can have a walking stick of Jo length when out and about hiking and walking around town and such without most people noticing. And a Jo length stick can be adapted to some WCK pole techniques fairly well. But if you are really worried about something for self-defense at all times, a tactical folder makes the most sense.

Firehawk, I'm not sure what you are asking with your old man practicing question. Are you concerned about it affects health, or usefulness for fighting and self-defense?

[Firehawk4]

What i mean when you get to a certain old age you just dont seem to do what young people or 40 or 68 year old people can do with martial arts in selfdefense I mean makeing Muay Thaiboxing or Ultimate fighting systems and other Martial arts work for someone who is 75 and older it does nt seem like they could do these martial arts and other Arts in selfdefense at a old age at 75 or older what about when you are 90 and you are assaulted and attacked what is a person to do to fight off there attacker ?

[anerlich]

I mean makeing Muay Thaiboxing or Ultimate fighting systems and other Martial arts work for someone who is 75 and older it does nt seem like they could do these martial arts and other Arts in selfdefense at a old age at 75 or older what about when you are 90 and you are assaulted and attacked what is a person to do to fight off there attacker ?

I'm not convinced Wing Chun (or just about anything else) would work for most people against a ruthless, committed attacker in such situations either.

[KPM]

What i mean when you get to a certain old age you just dont seem to do what young people or 40 or 68 year old people can do with martial arts in selfdefense I mean makeing Muay Thaiboxing or Ultimate fighting systems and other Martial arts work for someone who is 75 and older it does nt seem like they could do these martial arts and other Arts in selfdefense at a old age at 75 or older what about when you are 90 and you are assaulted and attacked what is a person to do to fight off there attacker ?

I agree that certain martial arts that are based on athleticism...strength and speed...will start to fail you in old age as these physical attributes decline. Its always been a theory of mine that if Bruce Lee was still around his personal martial art would start looking more and more like WCK again as his physical attributes started to decline with age. Martial arts that depend more on timing and positioning seem to me to have better longevity. Helio Gracie was rolling and teaching BJJ well into his 80's. There are plenty of aging Sifu's that are 1st generation Yip Man students still going strong and teaching.

But I also tend to agree with what Andrew said:
I'm not convinced Wing Chun (or just about anything else) would work for most people against a ruthless, committed attacker in such situations either.

A young, strong, ruthless, committed attacker that isn't interested in a fair fight is going to be very hard for ANYONE to deal with. Especially as your own strength and speed and reaction times decline with age.

[Wayfaring]

Lets see old maybe 75 and older . Would a staff or a Japanese jo Staff be better for old people than the long pole in seldefense in very violent assaults ?

Look to the elderly Phillipino gentlemen for examples here. Cane plus escrima/kali. Plenty of gentlemen in this category have put down young punks for years.

[Wayfaring]

I'm not convinced Wing Chun (or just about anything else) would work for most people against a ruthless, committed attacker in such situations either.

Research shows it's hard to get a gun into action from inside 20 feet either. We did an exercise in CCW (concealed carry weapons) certification where you draw and dry fire a sidearm and compete against a guy 20 feet away. His goal - sprint towards you and touch you. Your goal - one click before the touch.

I lost every time. I would say every normal police officer around me who normally only fires a handgun once a month at a range to qualify it would probably fail most of the time too.

[tc101]

I agree that certain martial arts that are based on athleticism...strength and speed...will start to fail you in old age as these physical attributes decline.


All fighting arts every single one relies on athleticism and conditioning there is no way around it.



Its always been a theory of mine that if Bruce Lee was still around his personal martial art would start looking more and more like WCK again as his physical attributes started to decline with age. Martial arts that depend more on timing and positioning seem to me to have better longevity. Helio Gracie was rolling and teaching BJJ well into his 80's. There are plenty of aging Sifu's that are 1st generation Yip Man students still going strong and teaching.


Helio may have been rolling into his 80s but his performance level was much much much lower than when he was younger. Yes yes there are lots of older guys teaching but that is very very very different thing than the level they are able to use their art at.

The truth is your physical performance level is going to decline as you get older and that is true in something as non intense as golf and even more true in martial arts and other things that are extremely high intensity.



But I also tend to agree with what Andrew said:
I'm not convinced Wing Chun (or just about anything else) would work for most people against a ruthless, committed attacker in such situations either.

A young, strong, ruthless, committed attacker that isn't interested in a fair fight is going to be very hard for ANYONE to deal with. Especially as your own strength and speed and reaction times decline with age.

Any ones performance level is going to depend on their current level of conditioning. The reality is that you are only as good as your conditioning level. Yes attributes and skill decline with age so what matters is where you were level wise when your decline began. A 70 year old Jack Dempsey knocked out 2 much younger guys who tried to mug him. Even with a decline his performance level was way beyond the average joe.

There is even a kuit that says that if you do not work hard when you are young you will have nothing when you are old.

Btw from a LEO perspective I think carrying weapons from knives to sticks and even guns is asking for trouble and is a really bad idea. Real self defense is living a healthy and smart lifestyle. Most people never are attacked never have fights and so forth because they avoid trouble and the places and people who cause it. Weapons cause more problems than they solve and are mainly security blankets that make scared people falsely feel more secure.

[Kellen Bassette]

What i mean when you get to a certain old age you just dont seem to do what young people or 40 or 68 year old people can do with martial arts in selfdefense I mean makeing Muay Thaiboxing or Ultimate fighting systems and other Martial arts work for someone who is 75 and older it does nt seem like they could do these martial arts and other Arts in selfdefense at a old age at 75 or older what about when you are 90 and you are assaulted and attacked what is a person to do to fight off there attacker ?

I've heard of several instances of former boxers in their 70's successfully defending against, (beating down) muggers, or people that broke into their house. This isn't the norm, of course, but it stands to reason if you spent decades fighting, training and conditioning, you would have better chances in your old age then one who hasn't. Of course time eventually takes strength and athleticism from everyone, but some people lose it at 40, some closer to 80....I have a hard time imagining a 90 year old doing well against a reasonably fit 30 year old in any self defense situation...but I'm sure there's some exception to prove the rule.

At any rate, I got to agree with TC101, no martial art works for real that isn't based on athleticism and conditioning. The misconception is that TCMA wasn't based on these attributes. It's simply not true.

[Vajramusti]

Agreed. I am 64 years old and if anything, by virtue of decades of conditioning, I am better than ever, even with my disabilities. Within the last month, two muggers contemplated robbing me in the parking lot of the local grocery store and there was an attempted home invasion. In both cases, I just looked at them, and waited. In both cases, they backed down because they sensed I was not afraid. Training has eradicated fear within me. I had no fear or other emotions but was in that still quiet space before combat that my training has taught me. They knew they would be getting into something they did not know what. I was prepared to kill because going into combat, my training has taught me to have no moral constraints if I am forced to engage the bad guys. If they are ruthless and mean, I am more ruthless and mean. The bad guys want an easy mark. They are hesitant to go into an engagement they sense will not be easy. Win, lose, or draw, they pay. Guaranteed they will pay. You young guys are hung up on age. Do not train for the glory and fame of youth. Train for your old age. You want to be an effective martial artist? Train until you slip in your own sweat then train some more; train until you go to one knee, get up, then train some more; train until you pass out. When you wake up, train some more. Train until you do not have any bright ideas, then you start to understand that still quiet space in between the calm and the combat. You spend too much time talking, talking, talking. To remedy your ignorance get into serious combat training, then you will understand. You might just save your own life.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yup- depends on who the person is and what they have done and are doing.

[deejaye72]

Btw from a LEO perspective I think carrying weapons from knives to sticks and even guns is asking for trouble and is a really bad idea. Real self defense is living a healthy and smart lifestyle. Most people never are attacked never have fights and so forth because they avoid trouble and the places and people who cause it. Weapons cause more problems than they solve and are mainly security blankets that make scared people falsely feel more secure.



very true statement!

[deejaye72]

At any rate, I got to agree with TC101, no martial art works for real that isn't based on athleticism and conditioning. The misconception is that TCMA wasn't based on these attributes. It's simply not true.



i agree. i got into a fight in 1995 with a family memeber over my grandfathers funeral ( my italian side of the family, we fight when someone dies) he was 18 years old, benching 300lbs! anyone who tells you strength and speed dont mean anything are full of crap! hardest fight of my life, it was like wrestling an alligator in a phone booth!! :(

[KPM]

Btw from a LEO perspective I think carrying weapons from knives to sticks and even guns is asking for trouble and is a really bad idea. Real self defense is living a healthy and smart lifestyle. Most people never are attacked never have fights and so forth because they avoid trouble and the places and people who cause it. Weapons cause more problems than they solve and are mainly security blankets that make scared people falsely feel more secure.

Good rational points. This is one of the best things that tc101 has written. The first part, not so much.

[LoneTiger108]

Should a person just practice the Wing Chun pole or other kung fu pole techniques and forms if there a old man ? Instead of doing Kung Fu systems that they could not use in selfdefense ?

The stick, rather than the pole, is the Father of all Chinese Martial Arts weaponry. It is not the stick that you will need to defend yourself, it is the benefits reaped from years and years of training correctly that you will carry in your hands. In actual fact, you may not need the stick in your old age at all, but they do make excellent therapy apparatus!

The pole is simply an extension of the stick and has very specific adjustments to make better use of additional length and weight. I have heard a story of my Sigung using a pole in his sixties that none of his younger students could even lift off the floor.

[Wayfaring]

Btw from a LEO perspective I think carrying weapons from knives to sticks and even guns is asking for trouble and is a really bad idea. Real self defense is living a healthy and smart lifestyle. Most people never are attacked never have fights and so forth because they avoid trouble and the places and people who cause it. Weapons cause more problems than they solve and are mainly security blankets that make scared people falsely feel more secure.

From my perspective waiting on a LEO and their weaponry for their perspective could get me killed. Weapons to me are options, not security blankets or anything to make me feel any way. They are tools. If you want to limit your options because of your perspective that's your problem. But projecting an image of scared people falsely feeling secure certainly isn't me, and doesn't sound like a whole lot of people on this forum either. :eek:

[HybridWarrior]

Weapons to me are options, not security blankets or anything to make me feel any way. They are tools.

I agree! Tools for the toolbox! Just like hand to hand skills and good situational awareness.

[tc101]

From my perspective waiting on a LEO and their weaponry for their perspective could get me killed. Weapons to me are options, not security blankets or anything to make me feel any way. They are tools. If you want to limit your options because of your perspective that's your problem. But projecting an image of scared people falsely feeling secure certainly isn't me, and doesn't sound like a whole lot of people on this forum either. :eek:

Weapons do not give you options like you think. That is security blanket thinking I've got a weapon and options and that makes me feel better. Only it isn't true. Most of the time weapons only make things worse for the people with the weapons. I see it time and time again.