GM William Cheung returns Wing Chun to Shaolin Temple

[Tong Chuang]

GM William Cheung returns Wing Chun to Shaolin Temple - a controversial claim or justified?
8526

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp-CEITLnLI

I can't help respecting someone who has been practicing Wing Chun for over 60 years and is still agile and skillful!

[PalmStriker]

Will be interesting to see TCMA WingChun trained monks go up against Mainstream MMA, should look different than the usual brawling exhibition considering the monk temperament and stylized ingrained training. :) Thanks for the head's up!

[zuti car]

Interesting , William always had excellent ideas how to promote him self and his style

[PalmStriker]

Yes. He's not waiting around for Master Hendrik and the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen to rewrite WingChun History. Back to where it once belonged in Wing Chun Hall / Shaolin Snake Temple. :D

[zuti car]

Yes. He's not waiting around for Master Hendrik and the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen to rewrite WingChun History. Back to where it once belonged in Wing Chun Hall / Shaolin Snake Temple. :D

Yup, he is a man of action . On the other hand he and Leung Ting are the worst things happened to Wing Chun ever .

[LFJ]

Yeah, I've spent a number of years in the Shaolin area training and studying a lot of the arts from around Henan Province. All the arts in the Song Mountain region share a distinct flavor. There is honestly zero evidence whatsoever that anything like Wing Chun was ever done in that area. The only thing anyone could say is that it's possible Shaolin arts moved south through the centuries and only following the evolution and development of several arts, Wing Chun finally emerged. It's like a very distilled version of Shaolin in the small frame, but it is still vastly different than what is done in Henan. It was certainly never taught or practiced there. Even a glance into the past couple of centuries at Shaolin, and what is currently practiced, unchanged for several centuries in the mountain villages there, would answer that question.

To say you're bringing Wing Chun "back to the temple" is nonsense (especially TWC!). But Cheung and the Abbot are both businessmen. Shaolin can only benefit from attracting practitioners of the most practiced TCMA worldwide, and Cheung can definitely benefit from it being his version being "brought back" by the Shaolin abbot.

It's a shame they do this, really.

[LFJ]

BTW, I didn't get it. Who are they going to fight? I'm afraid training performance monks in TWC is setting everyone up for a huge embarrassment if these are fights where they have no control over the outcome.

[anerlich]

Yup, he is a man of action . On the other hand he and Leung Ting are the worst things happened to Wing Chun ever .

Instead of "worst thing ever", perhaps "worst thing so far".

[anerlich]

I'm sceptical about these MMA fights with monks. Doubt it will ever happen against top flight guys.

Besides guys like Obasi and Alan Orr are doing it for WC already.

I'm from the TWC lineage, and while it does have groundfighting, it's definitely not up to snuff with modern MMA. Unless his takedown defense has progressed and become dramatically more sophisticated since when I last saw him teach it, I see a long line of monks suffering clinch takedowns or leg shoots.

I started learning BJJ not long after I last saw him, and I reckon what I've learned from grapplers in that respect would definitely be more complete and sophisticated than anything any bunch of WC guys who don't crosstrain could come up with on their own.

To win in MMA, you need to train like an MMA fighter. not a Shaolin monk. I would have thought ring fighting would be against their principles.

A good article about why Chinese martial artists largely haven't succeeded in MMA:

http://dynastyclothingstore.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/where-are-the-chinese-fighters-why-mma-has-not-flourished-in-chinese-society-long-read-with-videos/

[anerlich]

Yes. He's not waiting around for Master Hendrik and the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen to rewrite WingChun History.

Some say he rewrote WC history himself a while back.

[PalmStriker]

:D Modern Wing Chun is all about ENTERTAINMENT. Enjoy the show!

[KPM]

When and where is this "reality show" scheduled to aire? I think it will be very interesting, if it actually happens!

[pazman]

Very surprised by the video...usually this is the sort of jingoistic, semi-racist stuff that mainland fight promoters peddle to Chinese, but the video is clearly meant for a Western audience. I don't get it.

[Almost A Ghost]

The whole deal with Cheung developing a TWC program for the Shoalin temple, whatever, good for him.

But holy heck, that video was trying to make him out as some sort of Kung Fu messiah.

[Grumblegeezer]

Instead of "worst thing ever", perhaps "worst thing so far".

Man! that's a scary thought.

Now, if I may paraphrase your own words (as a former LT student):

I'm from the WT lineage, and while it does have groundfighting, it's definitely not up to snuff with modern MMA. Unless his takedown defense has progressed and become dramatically more sophisticated since when I last saw LT teach it...

Yeah, I studied under William Cheung's evil twin, and my perspective on most WC/WT groundwork is the same as yours.

OK, actually we have a few decent "anti-grappling" techniques. And by anti-grappling, I mean escapes and reversals --responses to a shoot, clinch, lock or throw that help you get back into your striking game.

The trouble is, the only students who can apply them against resistance are those who already have some background in grappling. The pure strikers who don't have a sense for grappling and rolling are hopeless with this stuff. When I point this out (in favor of cross training) I become very unpopular in WC circles. Oh well...

[JPinAZ]

I'm sceptical about these MMA fights with monks. Doubt it will ever happen against top flight guys.

Besides guys like Obasi and Alan Orr are doing it for WC already.

Alan sure, but Obasi? That's more than a stretch. While yes, he's had one 'pro' fight almost 45 years ago and he should be credited for stepping in the ring, his perfomance there was dismall. And if you watch any of the shlubs he's 'fought' in his ameture events, well, he's not 'doing it' for me! or WC for that matter...

[LFJ]

Back in January there was an event in China, Hero Legends, in which Shi Yanzi, founder of the UK Shaolin Temple, was to fight Simon Marcus, an undefeated Muay Thai champion. It was Shi Yanzi's challenge match and was hyped big up until the fight night when suddenly his opponent was switched to some half-dead no-name guy, due to an 80-82kg weight and age difference, and of course he came out with the sloppy victory. Apparently, this sudden switching of opponents had become somewhat of a common thing with him.

Other than him, there was been another guy from Shaolin, although not a monk, named Yi Long. He just let people punch him, to, I guess, show his iron head skills, until one of them knocked him out for it. So, another embarrassment for Shaolin.

In Shaolin, these performance monks are just that. They do their forms for performance purposes. When it comes to anything fighting related, it's all Sanda- but not at the national level or beyond as you might expect from "elite warrior monks". Just average, really.

The one thing they do have is amazing conditioning and stamina. So it's a good material to work with and mold into a fighter if trained by the right person. But, Cheung? I guess the abbot didn't do much research on the top guys in the Wing Chun world before choosing who to collaborate with... it's all for commercial purpose, obviously. I predict rigged fights, if anything at all.

[anerlich]

The trouble is, the only students who can apply them against resistance are those who already have some background in grappling. The pure strikers who don't have a sense for grappling and rolling are hopeless with this stuff. When I point this out (in favor of cross training) I become very unpopular in WC circles. Oh well...

I agree 100%.

[anerlich]

Alan sure, but Obasi? That's more than a stretch. While yes, he's had one 'pro' fight almost 45 years ago and he should be credited for stepping in the ring, his perfomance there was dismall. And if you watch any of the shlubs he's 'fought' in his ameture events, well, he's not 'doing it' for me! or WC for that matter...

To be honest, I know very little about Obasi.

[Wayfaring]

Alan sure, but Obasi? That's more than a stretch. While yes, he's had one 'pro' fight almost 45 years ago and he should be credited for stepping in the ring, his perfomance there was dismall. And if you watch any of the shlubs he's 'fought' in his ameture events, well, he's not 'doing it' for me! or WC for that matter...

My view on Obasi? The drama surrounding his martial arts journey is well documented. Regardless of that, his fight record is better than mine. I haven't signed a contract and got in a ring. Until I step up and beat the same shlubs I really don't have much criticism. I mean I think that from my background and seeing his opponents most of them wouldn't be that much of a problem, but I don't really know that now do I unless I actually step up?

Alan has a MMA fight team that competes using wing chun. In that he is unique. I'm not aware of anyone else doing that.