"Hendrik is on to": Deleted? (Zhaoyang Hand)

[LFJ]

4. I have never deleted anything I post.

He deleted several things from his posts within that thread. Then when he got cornered, the thread mysteriously disappeared!

So last night, Hendrik is mocking Shaolin as a "fake and copy cat" when I showed that the term Zhaoyang is not unique to White Crane. There is even an entire system consisting of 4 forms bearing the name Zhaoyangquan. But since it was a Qing Dynasty creation, Hendrik accuses Shaolin of "pirating" the term from White Crane. :rolleyes: Likely.

My point was not to suggest connection between Shaolin and White Crane, but just to show that the term is common in TCMA and that it's absurd to claim direct connection between his Wing Chun and White Crane based on a common term. (Remember, this is the only thing GM Lee Kong recognized in his whole kyut, but when he did Hendrik was quick to call it White Crane DNA- a term which GM Lee Kong said is only wishful thinking).

It's unremarkable for this term to appear elsewhere. After all, there's nothing to say his Wing Chun didn't pirate the term in the same way he accuses Shaolin. He has no information on who taught what to whom, when and where to make any sort of historical claim.

So on Hendrik goes to mocking irrelevant modern Shaolin, saying they don't even have Chan (presuming he does, but this is not a religious debate). Then he mocks me saying next I'll show some Shaolin McDonald's burger or some sh!t saying it is common in China and proves something, blah, blah, blah. Funny guy.

Due to Hendrik's arrogance I then give another example of the term "Zhaoyang Hand" used elsewhere in TCMA, and older than his "unique signature of White Crane since the 1650's Qing Dynasty".



General Qi Jiguang's (1528-1588) book Ji Xiao Xin Shu (纪效新书).

The term "Zhaoyang Hand" appears in the lyrics for the 32 posture set in Chapter 14 of this Ming Dynasty work. Now how is this a pirating of the "unique signature of White Crane since the 1650's Qing Dynasty" from a hundred years later?

After leaving this question last night, when I come back on today, wouldn't you know it.... the entire thread is deleted without a trace.

But I did rub it in by asking him to pull up to the second window for his McWingChun with extra cheeeese! :D

[Hendrik]

He deleted several things from his posts within that thread. Then when he got cornered, the thread mysteriously disappeared!

So last night, Hendrik is mocking Shaolin as a "fake and copy cat" when I showed that the term Zhaoyang is not unique to White Crane. There is even an entire system consisting of 4 forms bearing the name Zhaoyangquan. But since it was a Qing Dynasty creation, Hendrik accuses Shaolin of "pirating" the term from White Crane. :rolleyes: Likely.

My point was not to suggest connection between Shaolin and White Crane, but just to show that the term is common in TCMA and that it's absurd to claim direct connection between his Wing Chun and White Crane based on a common term. (Remember, this is the only thing GM Lee Kong recognized in his whole kyut, but when he did Hendrik was quick to call it White Crane DNA- a term which GM Lee Kong said is only wishful thinking).

It's unremarkable for this term to appear elsewhere. After all, there's nothing to say his Wing Chun didn't pirate the term in the same way he accuses Shaolin. He has no information on who taught what to whom, when and where to make any sort of historical claim.

So on Hendrik goes to mocking irrelevant modern Shaolin, saying they don't even have Chan (presuming he does, but this is not a religious debate). Then he mocks me saying next I'll show some Shaolin McDonald's burger or some sh!t saying it is common in China and proves something, blah, blah, blah. Funny guy.

Due to Hendrik's arrogance I then give another example of the term "Zhaoyang Hand" used elsewhere in TCMA, and older than his "unique signature of White Crane since the 1650's Qing Dynasty".



General Qi Jiguang's (1528-1588) book Ji Xiao Xin Shu (纪效新书).

The term "Zhaoyang Hand" appears in the lyrics for the 32 posture set in Chapter 14 of this Ming Dynasty work. Now how is this a pirating of the "unique signature of White Crane since the 1650's Qing Dynasty" from a hundred years later?

After leaving this question last night, when I come back on today, wouldn't you know it.... the entire thread is deleted without a trace.

But I did rub it in by asking him to pull up to the second window for his McWingChun with extra cheeeese! :D






1. Nice try from copy cat shongshan shaolin. But a copy cat stuffs or replica.

See video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcNmEXlNlAQ&feature=youtube_gdata

What is this got to do with SNT of Wck?





2. Nice try from general Qi Jiguang book. But got nothing to do with it.

See # 1 picture and writing in the attached photo.
Sorry you are not even close in Chinese characters recognition .

What is this got to do with SNT of wck?




3.

Y18企掌屈肘單昭陽
Erect palm bent elbow single zhao yang

From yik kam SLT kuit clearly describe Fujian white crane DNA.



As in the Fujian white crane book and Fang Chi Niang statue.

The term is " single zhao yang" ,
a very specific term from fujian white crane,

there are both single an double zhao yang in fujian white crane.
And in Y18 it clearly says " single zhao yang" with further description " erect palm bent elbow."


Thus, it is
Zhao Yang,
Single
Erect palm bent elbow .

Three level depth of detail description and verification .

See # 2 # 3 and the Fang Chi Niang statue in the attach photo




4.

"GM Lee Kong said is only wishful thinking" Is your word, not from Gm Lee kong.
Stop twisting words and make use of Gm Lee Kong name.




Gm Lee kong , kong suk , was the person who told me about Zhao Yang is a special term in ancient Fujian White crane in year 2000 in Hong Kong kungfuboard forum. Who gave me the kuit later I share with wingchunpedia and post in wingchunpedia.


……..雙手沉肩、墜肘、坐腕成昭陽手，分成三節，肩至肘為內節，肘關節為中節，腕關節為尾節，要做到內節 如鐵一般堅實，與肩身成一整體；………
圈手入側門，坐節沉肘，肩墮；成昭陽手，手入即身入；不用僵力。
三) 兩手昭陽、吞吐節力：雙手沉肩、墜肘、坐腕成「昭陽手」，分成三節，肩至肘為內節(根節)，肘關節為中節， 腕關節為尾節，要做到內節如鐵一般堅實，與肩身成一整體；中節吞墜，尾節如膠如漆，靈活多變。雙手來去出力 發勁，出手時吐氣(吐)，收手時吸氣(吞)，一吞一吐互相配合無間，堅持「中門不讓，子午不離」。練習時與 肩、頭、背、胯、膝要貫串一氣，互相呼應，如有橡筋互相牽引、拉扯，吞肩坐節(墜肘)，發胛力，勁達指尖。 出手時節中隨身與胯同向，不可縮入開出，手節對膝，承接全身各處之力。


http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.KuenKuit







5. Sergio open to public statement :

Just to make clear to all we have 2 Grandmaster saying that they see Emei and White Crane movements in the Siu Nim Tau set from 1848.

the last thing we want is to drag respectable grandmasters like GM FU of Emei or GM Lee Kong of Fujian White Crane into a political issue.

its just a reference for our research nothing more and nothing less,

GM Fu identified half of the KUIT to be Emei based and GM Lee Kong agreed that the term Zhao Yang in the kuit number 18 is a White Crane term and both saw their respective arts back in the movements of the 1848 set that are the facts nothing more nothing less.

[LFJ]

Why did you delete the entire thread, Hendrik? I thought you're honest and never do that.

The characters are codewords if you understand them. What do you think the meaning behind the term Zhaoyang is?

[LFJ]

1. Nice try from copy cat shongshan shaolin. But a copy cat stuffs or replica.

1. Prove that the term was copied by Shaolin.
2. Prove that the term was not copied by your Wing Chun.


What is this got to do with SNT of wck?

You're the only one trying to make a connection based on a term that is common in TCMA. I'm just showing that it's common and that it's stupid to make a historical claim based on it.

[Hendrik]

Why did you delete the entire thread, Hendrik? I thought you're honest and never do that.

The characters are codewords if you understand them. What do you think the meaning behind the term Zhaoyang is?



1. I try to give you face.

2. Nice try, but you are totally off , be it with shaolin or with general Qi book.

[Minghequan]

Oh come on Hendrik!!! Who in the Blue Hell do you think your fooling? Your dealing with some very real and straight up martial artists here! So who in the hell do you think your fooling by removing your threads when they go against you?

One really simply question for you Hendrik:

WHY DID YOU REMOVE YOUR THREAD ENTITLED "Hendrik is on to". WHY DID YOU DELETE THIS THREAD HENDRIK?

As for your ZhaoYang Bull:


From the "Could fujian white crane sifu help?" Thread started by Hendrik Santo in the Southern Chinese Kung Fu Forum, Hendrik Santo wrote

Could Fujian White Crane Sifu help on the name of the technique shown in This Fang Chi Niang statue ?

To which David Williams, himself a Crane Stylist wrote in reply:


Hi Hendrick,
I hope this uploads okay. Here is a picture from Ruan Dongs book of Fujian Crane. 'Paizhi', (fingers in a row), or 'flat palm' is a basic hand form in Calling Crane.
It's not exactly identical (little finger) , but having visited the statue a few times in Yongchung I think it possible that the sculptor be allowed some artistic license in order to make a strong cast....
Best wishes.

I draw your attention to the following:

'Paizhi', (fingers in a row), or 'flat palm' is a basic hand form in Calling Crane.
It's not exactly identical (little finger) , but having visited the statue a few times in Yongchung I think it possible that the sculptor be allowed some artistic license in order to make a strong cast....

To which you replied:


Thanks!

I have heard, this technic is Zhao Yang , a unque signature of The Fujian White Crane, that is why is shows up in this statue

Totally ignorant of the fact that David had just written that it was a basic hand form in White Crane and that the sculptor had applied some artistic licence!!!

Are you thick? Why totally ignore what was written in direct reply to your question???



The term is " single zhao yang" ,
a very specific term from fujian white crane,

Bulls@#t Hendrick! You have no idea of what the term ZhaoYang means when applied to the White Crane Tradition (Which is not Wing Chun). It has a very specific meaning that goes beyond your pi##weak explanation of "Single, Erect palm bent elbow" which means basically nothing other than a rudimentary positioning of the hand.

Man you are so off the mark, universes away from its real meaning that I really have to laugh at your pitiful attempts at explaining what this means within White Crane Gongfu ... an art you have never trained in!

Its so funny that you, someone uninitiated in the art of White Crane Gongfu come on here and tell White Crane people what this hand is "supposed to be" when you don't have a clue yourself!

Otherwise why did you write asking "Could fujian white crane sifu help?" in the Southern Chinese Kung Fu Forum???

What's the bet that you remove that thread too?

Hendrik its no wonder no one wants to take you seriously when you cannot even stand by your own words by deleting the threads you start because they don't go your way.

Seriously pathetic!

[LFJ]

GM Fu identified half of the KUIT to be Emei based and GM Lee Kong agreed that the term Zhao Yang in the kuit number 18 is a White Crane term and both saw their respective arts back in the movements of the 1848 set

And I recognize the term from various TCMA perspectives and common hand shapes are found in almost every TCMA. It means nothing.

Until you answer the essential questions of who taught what to whom, when and where, you are only speculating.


that are the facts nothing more nothing less.

Nothing more, until you begin to make historical claims based on someone recognizing one common term.

Say what you have, but leave the historical claims and speculation out until you answer the essential historical questions. That's the only honest thing to do.

[Hendrik]

Since you are the one who bring up shaolin . Show us if it is not a copy cat ?



1. Prove that the term was copied by Shaolin.
2. Prove that the term was not copied by your Wing Chun.



You're the only one trying to make a connection based on a term that is common in TCMA. I'm just showing that it's common and that it's stupid to make a historical claim based on it.

[LFJ]

1. I try to give you face.

2. Nice try, but you are totally off , be it with shaolin or with general Qi book.

1. Prove that the term was copied by Shaolin.
2. Prove that the term was not copied by your Wing Chun.

[Hendrik]

Nice try with shaolin and general Qi book.
Too bad not even close.

Your are free to think as you like.

But sorry, no one need your approval for facts.




And I recognize the term from various TCMA perspectives and common hand shapes are found in almost every TCMA. It means nothing.

Until you answer the essential questions of who taught what to whom, when and where, you are only speculating.



Nothing more, until you begin to make historical claims based on someone recognizing one common term.

Say what you have, but leave the historical claims and speculation out until you answer the essential historical questions. That's the only honest thing to do.

[LFJ]

Since you are the one who bring up shaolin . Show us if it is not a copy cat ?

By saying it is a copy cat, you're suggesting some connection... at least that someone from Shaolin went to learn White Crane, and copied only the one term to apply to their unrelated martial art back in Henan. :rolleyes:

You're the only one making ridiculous claims. The burden of proof is on you.

[Firehawk4]

Trickster very tricky .

[Minghequan]

GM Lee Kong said is only wishful thinking" Is your word, not from Gm Lee kong.
Stop twisting words and make use of Gm Lee Kong name.

Hold on a darn minute Hendrik, It was you who started the "Sifu Sergio White Crane Report" Thread that you later deleted in which you quoted Sifu Lee Kong as endorsing Sergio to teach Lee Kong's White Crane.

This was proved to be a lie.

It was also you Hendrik that attributed a quote to Sifu Lee Kong on your Wing Chun Facebook which he never said and which could not be found!

That was also proven!

Lee Kong told me you are a "Mouse who takes whatever you can and that you should be ignored".

He also made this request that Sunny So clarify the lies posted in the "Sifu Sergio White Crane Report" thread that you started and then deleted:

8702

Hendrik you are the only one wrongly using Sifu Lee Kong's words and reputation here, twisting them or making them up entirely!!!

Then you write saying that LFJ should not use or twist Sifu Lee Kong's words ... you are a pathetic hypocrite.

Seriously Hendrik how can anybody in their right mind believe a single solitary word you say or write when you lie so much and are constantly caught out telling lies?

WHY DID YOU REMOVE YOUR THREAD ENTITLED "Hendrik is on to". WHY DID YOU DELETE THIS THREAD HENDRIK?

[Hendrik]

What matter is your shaolin and general Qi book are off target.




By saying it is a copy cat, you're suggesting some connection... at least that someone from Shaolin went to learn White Crane, and copied only the one term to apply to their unrelated martial art back in Henan. :rolleyes:

You're the only one making ridiculous claims. The burden of proof is on you.

[Minghequan]

Hendrik, I'll also go on record stating that you will also delete this thread in the near future!

WHY DID YOU REMOVE YOUR THREAD ENTITLED "Hendrik is on to". WHY DID YOU DELETE THIS THREAD HENDRIK?

[Hendrik]

1. You make sure you have the permission from Gm Lee kong, Sunny so, and Sergio to post their personal private message with private issue in public.

In USA it is privately violation without thier permission.


2. Go ask Gm Lee kong what he means exactly. Ask him to made a statement with his signature.
Until then, it is yours words. Got nothing to do with him.

Sergio met with Gm Lee Kong and you are not. You don't even know what is going on. But speculate.




Hold on a darn minute Hendrik, It was you who started the "Sifu Sergio White Crane Report" Thread that you later deleted in which you quoted Sifu Lee Kong as endorsing Sergio to teach Lee Kong's White Crane.

This was proved to be a lie.

It was also you Hendrik that attributed a quote to Sifu Lee Kong on your Wing Chun Facebook which he never said and which could not be found!

That was also proven!

Lee Kong told me you are a "Mouse who takes whatever you can and that you should be ignored".

He also made this request that Sunny So clarify the lies posted in the "Sifu Sergio White Crane Report" thread that you started and then deleted:

8702

Hendrik you are the only one wrongly using Sifu Lee Kong's words and reputation here, twisting them or making them up entirely!!!

Then you write saying that LFJ should not use or twist Sifu Lee Kong's words ... you are a pathetic hypocrite.

Seriously Hendrik how can anybody in their right mind believe a single solitary word you say or write when you lie so much and are constantly caught out telling lies?

[Minghequan]

What matter is your shaolin and general Qi book are off target.

And your "ZhaoYang" are so off target that it's not even in the same universe!!!

You really don't know what it actually means, represents and is used for do you Hendrik?

[LFJ]

Hendrik, I'll also go on record stating that you will also delete this thread in the near future!

He won't be able to delete this thread, and I'm certainly not going to.

[Minghequan]

1. You make sure you have the permission from Gm Lee kong, Sunny so, and Sergio to post their personal private message with private issue in public.

In USA it is privately violation without thier permission.


2. Go ask Gm Lee kong what he means exactly.

Sergio met with Gm Lee Kong and you are not. You don't even know what is going on. But speculate.

I don't speculate. I have no need to. But I do have have it direct. No I did not meet with Sifu Lee Kong but he and I do communicate quite well! That's how I know about your lies as told here.

Have you met with Sifu Lee Kong Hendrik? If not then maybe you should close your mouth before swallowing your own foot!

Hendrik to answer you clearly, and honestly .......

I have Sifu Lee Kong's permission to post his request of Sunny So and Sergio.

I am willing to sign a Legal Document attesting to same.

What about you Hendrik, are you willing to sign a legally standing document of your claims?

Answer me!

If you don't answer this question then everyone here will know that you are what we Aussies call "talking through your ass!!!"

[Minghequan]

He won't be able to delete this thread, and I'm certainly not going to.

LFJ, That's great news.

Can I ask why he was allowed to delete all the other threads which did more than incriminate him but which actually proved factually that he was telling outright lies?

[LFJ]

@Hendrik

Shaolin uses this term in the name of an entire system that is unrelated to White Crane.

Prove your Wing Chun did not pirate the term Zhaoyang in the same way you baselessly accuse Shaolin of doing.

[Hendrik]

Please Post Gm Lee kong , Sunny So,mind Sergio permission statement with signature up if you have them.







Hendrik to answer you clearly, and honestly .......

I have Sifu Lee Kong's permission to post his request of Sunny So and Sergio.

I am willing to sign a Legal Document attesting to same.

What about you Hendrik, are you willing to sign a legally standing document of your claims?

Answer me!

If you don't answer this question then everyone here will know that you are what we Aussies call "talking through your ass!!!"

[LFJ]

LFJ, That's great news.

Can I ask why he was allowed to delete all the other threads which did more than incriminate him but which actually proved factually that he was telling outright lies?

Everyone has the ability to delete threads they create. It is really unfair to everyone who posts in them.

But I recall when Kevin used to delete his clip threads, the moderator restored them once and merged them all into one that he couldn't delete. So I think moderators have the ability to recall the threads from the trash.

[Minghequan]

Thanks LFJ.

How can we get all of the threads Hendrik has deleted back into one thread???

As for Hendrik's:


Please Post Gm Lee kong , Sunny So,mind Sergio permission statement with signature up if you have them.

Ha! I don't have to. I already told you I have Sifu Lee Kong's direct permission and am willing to sign a legal certified document stating so which is just as good as having his signature!

Hendrik can you please post Sifu Lee Kong's Signature verifyinh your claims? Can you post Sunny So's Signature vewrifying your claims? Can ypou post Sergio's signature verifying his claims?

If not then why not just make a legal statement signed by you as to the truth and the verification of your claims? It's not that hard to do. In fact, I will do one tomorrow ready to be posted! So its put up or shut up time Hendrik.

Stop avoiding the questions Hendrik:

Hendrik why did you delete the threads you started?

Have you met with Sifu Lee Kong?

Have you ever training in person in White Crane Gongfu?

[Hendrik]

1. My WCK is a fusion of fujian white crane and emei 12 zhuang, two mother arts,


2. Yuen Kai Shan history say, wck is from snake and crane

http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.YuenKayShanLineage


3. There is no such thing of pirate in my Wck or YKS WCK. Because white crane is the clearly state as the mother art.







@Hendrik

Shaolin uses this term in the name of an entire system that is unrelated to White Crane.

Prove your Wing Chun did not pirate the term Zhaoyang in the same way you baselessly accuse Shaolin of doing.

[Minghequan]

1. My WCK is a fusion of fujian white crane and emei 12 zhuang, two mother arts,

Great for you! Who did you train with in White Crane and for how long? What style of White Crane did you train in?

Who did you train with in Emei 12 Zhuang with and for how long?



2. Yuen Kai Shan history say, wck is from snake and crane

http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...KayShanLineage

So too is Sifu Yung's Snake Crane Wing Chun!


3. There is no such thing of pirate in my Wck or YKS WCK. Because fujian white crane is the mother art.

Really then by all accounts with White Crane being the "Mother Art" that would make me a senior to you! Thanks for that Hendrik old buddy!

[GlennR]

1. I try to give you face.

2. Nice try, but you are totally off , be it with shaolin or with general Qi book.

Why did you delete the thread then?

Oh, and what's the address of that museum zuti keeps asking you for?

[Minghequan]

Hendrik:

8703

[LFJ]

1. My WCK is a fusion of fujian white crane and emei 12 zhuang, two mother arts,


2. Yuen Kai Shan history say, wck is from snake and crane

http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.YuenKayShanLineage


3. There is no such thing of pirate in my Wck or YKS WCK. Because white crane is the clearly state as the mother art.

Saying it doesn't make it so, Hendrik.

Prove that your Wing Chun didn't just copy these things.

Shaolin has the same/similar hand shapes and terminology but is unrelated to these styles. Prove that it's not the same case with your Wing Chun. How did they come into your Wing Chun? Who taught what to whom, when and where?

As it stands, you have the same slim evidence for your Wing Chun's connection to Emei and White Crane that other unrelated styles have.

[Paddington]

[...] As it stands, you have the same slim evidence for your Wing Chun's connection to Emei and White Crane that other unrelated styles have.

I think LFJ is partly correct here. From a strict epistemological point of view, Hendrik, you cannot really classify all of your work and claims as research proper. The literature review you engage in is to be commended but by itself it is not strong enough to make the claims that you do and nor is the interview based evidence strong enough to reinforce your position. It is good practice, in all types of research that has a strong interpretive part, to acknowledge that nothing is 100% nor a 'fact'. There is no escaping, from an epistemological point of view, this observation.

Yes, I used a big word above and I do so because it means I can use less words in my post and be more succinct; that is why big words come into being.

[anerlich]

the last thing we want is to drag respectable grandmasters like GM FU of Emei or GM Lee Kong of Fujian White Crane into a political issue.

Assuming they are both respectable and grandmasters (if you meet the grandmaster on the road, kill him!) - IMO a contestable assertion - that particular horse has bolted, sired several generations and has died and afterwards been flogged mercilessly. A little late to suggest shutting the gate now.

[Guardian1000]

企掌屈肘單朝陽, 上下飛花勁脈暢.
Erect palm bent elbow single zhao yang, Upper lower flying flowers power channels unimpeded.

Explain the actions.....

05:38 - 06:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g77i-pznhtA

06:14 - 07:00
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzA3MjUyNDI0.html

Not big deal ha ha ha! Why so much talking :confused:

[PalmStriker]

1. My WCK is a fusion of fujian white crane and emei 12 zhuang, two mother arts,


2. Yuen Kai Shan history say, wck is from snake and crane

http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.YuenKayShanLineage


3. There is no such thing of pirate in my Wck or YKS WCK. Because white crane is the clearly state as the mother art. YKS Manifest states that Wing chun is from soft-style White Crane and Snake-fist BOXING style, not snake-essence Qigong. (*clarification).

[Hendrik]

YKS Manifest states that Wing chun is from soft-style White Crane and Snake-fist BOXING style, not snake-essence Qigong. (*clarification).



No one knows everything.
No one get everything 100% right .
However, from multiple source and evidence what is very likely always has a trace.



Strange that people complain on what has evidence and more likely, and ok with
Shaolin and general Qi book
Which are totally off.

[LFJ]

企掌屈肘單朝陽, 上下飛花勁脈暢.
Erect palm bent elbow single zhao yang, Upper lower flying flowers power channels unimpeded.

Explain the actions.....

05:38 - 06:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g77i-pznhtA

06:14 - 07:00
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzA3MjUyNDI0.html

Not big deal ha ha ha! Why so much talking :confused:

Hendrik, you created a new account?

No big deal. Exactly! There's nothing remarkable about it, but this is what you're using as proof of connection between your Wing Chun and Emei & White Crane.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, you created a new account?

No big deal. Exactly! There's nothing remarkable about it, but this is what you're using as proof of connection between your Wing Chun and Emei & White Crane.



1. Not me.


2. Seriously, You are free to think as you like.
Since you can't differentiate between shongshan shaolin copy , general Qi book , and Wck. What can be expect from your view?


3. Seriously, the key is in the details of the look simple and nothing remarkable or daily bread and butter .
That's why the set is name as Small training. And wck is known for simple elegance, and shophisticated.

Instead of Big red fist of Shaolin modern Wushu for stage demo where one remarkably flying around.

[Hendrik]

We like it or not, this is Single Zhao Yang of Fujian White Crane Based.
One sure can deny it. That is personal freedom of thinking.

[LFJ]

Since you can't differentiate between shongshan shaolin copy , general Qi book , and Wck. What can be expect from your view?

Prove your Wing Chun is not just a copy. Who taught what to whom, when and where?

[LFJ]

Pictures of similar hand positions makes me realize another reason why you deleted that thread, Hendrik! You took all the pictures with it when you got cornered, you sneaky b@stard. You can't delete it this time though.

You didn't like the fact that your "Buddha counsel hands" posture you claim proves your Wing Chun's connection to Emei is also found in other unrelated TCMA, which discounts your absurd claim.

This shows you doing your Emei "signature move" side-by-side with the identical posture used in Songshan Shaolin from centuries earlier. It's also a salute and has application.

If you want to research any one style, you can't be ignorant of other TCMAs. Common hand shapes and actions are found in almost every system of TCMA. It's beyond absurd to look at similar postures and claim direct connections without answering the essential historical questions of who taught what to whom, when and where!

[Minghequan]

B). Photo of Master Su YingHan of the YongChun YiYun Wushu Society ( A friend and guide of Mine)

C). Photo off a poster for a Movie about Wing Chun depicting and "Actor" ... That is your reference? Good God!

[Paddington]

We like it or not, this is Single Zhao Yang of Fujian White Crane Based.
One sure can deny it. That is personal freedom of thinking.

Hendrik, who do you think it was that showed Donnie Yen wing chun and taught him how to chi sau? I think a couple of people did and I know for certain that Ip Chun spent a lot of time with him. Indeed, there are many video clips of him chi sauing with Donnie. Regardless, that image is from a commercial entertainment film and it cannot stand as a piece of documentary evidence.

[Vajramusti]

I think LFJ is partly correct here. From a strict epistemological point of view, Hendrik, you cannot really classify all of your work and claims as research proper. The literature review you engage in is to be commended but by itself it is not strong enough to make the claims that you do and nor is the interview based evidence strong enough to reinforce your position. It is good practice, in all types of research that has a strong interpretive part, to acknowledge that nothing is 100% nor a 'fact'. There is no escaping, from an epistemological point of view, this observation.

Yes, I used a big word above and I do so because it means I can use less words in my post and be more succinct; that is why big words come into being.
----------------------------------------------------------------

One cannot expect self appointed wing chun historians to know much about epistemology.

[KPM]

Geez guys. Hendrik only showed that pic of Donnie Yen because it was a clear illustration of a common hand position in Wing Chun that everyone should recognize. It had nothing to do with the actor or the movie. And besides, its not really even Donnie Yen, or even a real person! That is an advertisement illustration for an excellent 1/6 scale action figure based on the character from the movie. :)

[Minghequan]

It's laughable that Hendrik, in his own desire and base level need for some form of justification and self-validation would use of all things a Movie Poster as a means of trying to get that justification!!! Really :D:o:rolleyes:

Hendrik just so you know, epistemology is the study of knowledge and justified belief.

[Paddington]

----------------------------------------------------------------

One cannot expect self appointed wing chun historians to know much about epistemology.

I remember my first year at university. It tool me a week to get through just the first few pages of one text book because I had to delve into the dictionary to discover the meaning of every other word. Hendrik can google it and he also needs to read up on historical research methodologies. I could say the same for Sergio as well as others too, Jim.

It is quite comical, Sergio that is, as in one of his videos he moves to the white board and draws the commonly known 'gates' over a diagram of a human body and then says, looking like the the cat that's got the cream and is very impressed with himself, 'I was very clever at school, the best in mathematics, so I don't just stay in 2D, I can can reveal the other dimension, the gates in 3D!'; yes I paraphrase but it was along those lines.

[Paddington]

[...] That is an advertisement illustration for an excellent 1/6 scale action figure based on the character from the movie. :)

You are kidding right?

I take your point KPM and I am just trying to take a balanced position, one that I think you and I share.

[FongSung]

B). Photo of Master Su YingHan of the YongChun YiYun Wushu Society ( A friend and guide of Mine)

C). Photo off a poster for a Movie about Wing Chun depicting and "Actor" ... That is your reference? Good God!

Erect/Standing palm....
meaning the wrist is straight, palm follows the alignment of the foreman. ie not flexing the wrist so the hand is parallel to the floor.

bent elbow ....
Speaks for its self

Yang Palm / palm facing the sun......
Generally means exactly that ... palm facing up to the sky in the yang position as opposed to the ying position facing the floor.

This action is completely different in idea and energy than that of Mun Sao depicted in the photo's, imho.
But everyone is free to interpret how they want. For us this action combined with the "flying flowers" is a pattern used throughout all our forms of Ban Chung Wing Chun.

Carlos

[FongSung]

Pictures of similar hand positions makes me realize another reason why you deleted that thread, Hendrik! You took all the pictures with it when you got cornered, you sneaky b@stard. You can't delete it this time though.

You didn't like the fact that your "Buddha counsel hands" posture you claim proves your Wing Chun's connection to Emei is also found in other unrelated TCMA, which discounts your absurd claim.

This shows you doing your Emei "signature move" side-by-side with the identical posture used in Songshan Shaolin from centuries earlier. It's also a salute and has application.

If you want to research any one style, you can't be ignorant of other TCMAs. Common hand shapes and actions are found in almost every system of TCMA. It's beyond absurd to look at similar postures and claim direct connections without answering the essential historical questions of who taught what to whom, when and where!

Yes of course every action in SLT has an application... for this pattern can be direct or a start for a concept.

Carlos

[KPM]

You are kidding right?

I kid you not! ;)

http://www.unbox.ph/play/donnie-yen-ip-man-16th-scale-figure-by-enterbay/

I would love to have one of these. But they are pretty expensive!


I take your point KPM and I am just trying to take a balanced position, one that I think you and I share.

Hendrik leaves a lot of things to draw criticism about. I just thought that the fact he used a movie character to illustrate a common hand position in Wing Chun was a relatively minor one!

[PalmStriker]

No one knows everything.
No one get everything 100% right .
However, from multiple source and evidence what is very likely always has a trace.



Strange that people complain on what has evidence and more likely, and ok with
Shaolin and general Qi book
Which are totally off. :) Your Yik Kam lineage records obviously examine and substantiate the Snake QiGong Internal system, that you have proven. As far as the 5 Elders story is concerned, including YKS system there was the Emei connection. To actually insist that there was no Emei connection we would have to negate the role of rhe Shaolin Nun Ng Mui also.

[Vajramusti]

:) Your Yik Kam lineage records obviously examine and substantiate the Snake QiGong Internal system, that you have proven. As far as the 5 Elders story is concerned, including YKS system there was the Emei connection. To actually insist that there was no Emei connection we would have to negate the role of rhe Shaolin Nun Ng Mui also.
----------------------------------------------------------------
A yik kam lineage story is just that- a yik kam lineage story.

[kentchang]

:) Your Yik Kam lineage records obviously examine and substantiate the Snake QiGong Internal system, that you have proven. As far as the 5 Elders story is concerned, including YKS system there was the Emei connection. To actually insist that there was no Emei connection we would have to negate the role of rhe Shaolin Nun Ng Mui also.

Hendrik Santo has been twisting Yik Kam lineage with Ermei 12 Zhuang and modifying some of the SCWC kuit without the blessing of Sifu Wayne Yung. Out of nowhere Hendrik also used some terminlogy from somebody's secret book to claim his connection to the origin of the real WCK. Is this BS really that difficult to see through? Only Serigo Iadarola would fall for this, or just like Robert Chu said, he just wanted to use Sergio for publicity, but this is definelty not real WC research on any scale.

In the following post I think Chun Ki has summed up Hendriks' agenda pretty good.
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67614-Inside-the-Yik-Kam-Cho-Gar-vs-Hendrik-Santos-CONTROVERSY/page11


Originally Posted by Chun Ki View Post
Hendrik Santos VS. Kenneth Xiang Fuk Lin

HS: Southeast Asia - Malyasia
KL: South east Asia - Indonesia

HS: associate with same unqualified researcher Sergio Iadarola
KL: associate with same unqualified researcher Sergio Iadarola

HS: Claims to be successor
KL: Claims to be successor

HS: says Emie is Wing Chun
KL: says HKB is Wing Chun

HS: Forgery of documentation (Zuti car’s document refrence, written by non-chinese person and not 19th century writing, written in 21st century modern simplified Chinese characters.) HS so called historical document does not match historical era.
KL: Forgery of Vikoga Wing Chun material, forgery of Hun Mun, forgery of 18 Lohan, 5 Ancestors, ect.

HS: says he has the true Wing Chun.
KL: says he has the true Wing Chun.

HS: Steals SCWC 1890 material then twists and changes it to 1894 kuit. More Forgery.
KL: Steal years of internet, books, video material to make many websites, names. Ongoing twisting, worming and stretching his HKB his-story.

HS: baise to Master Yung but Master Yung publicly denouncement HS. HS’s Cho family publicly denounce HS.
KL: KL’s previously claimed successor and inheritor of HKB, GM Tio makes a public denouncement of KL. KL’s Sihings publicly denounce KL.

HS: Claims baise to Yung then disrespects him later.
KL: Claims baise to Tio and 7 hole oath then disrespects him later.

HS: Wants to become a big part of Wing Chun history
KL: Wants to become a big part of Wing Chun history

HS: Uses non-Wing Chun people to endorse emie as Wing Chun orginal.
KL: Uses non-Wing Chun old HKB men to endorse HKB is orginal Wing Chun.

HS: Emie master saw HS paper and highlights a few words then jumps to conclusion that Emie is Wing Chun orgin but Emie master does not know Wing Chun. HS uses non-Wing Chun people to validate Wing Chun.
KL: VTM makes fake report to jump to conclusion that HKB is orginal Wing Chun. KL uses VTM’s material and resells it to VTM to get non-Wing Chun students to validate HKB is Wing Chun. Just see there huge youtube video testimony propaganda.

HS: uses Emie master to sign paper that Emie is Wing Chun orgin.
KL: uses Master Tio to sign that HKB is 5-flags Wing Chun and orginal Wing Chun.

HS: uses Cho family kuit and changes it to match Emie kuit.
KL: uses HKB, changes history and stories to make up 5-flags Wing Chun. HKB = 18 lohan, 5 ancetor, Vikoga Wing Chun, ect

HS: No Emie in Cho Gar Wing Chun or Cho Hung Choi Wing Chun or Yik Kam Wing Chun.
KL: No Wing Chun in HKB. Old men cant perform SLT, CK, BJ.

HS: Rename/re-branding things that already exist
KL: Rename/re-branding things that already exist

HS: word play
KL: word play

HS: Emie false stories
KL: 5 flags Wing Chun false stories

HS: Fake buddist
KL: Fake buddist

HS: Fraud, liar
KL: Fraud, liar

HS: Mouse
KL: Rat

[Daniel Fong]

Hendrik creates a thread, but he finds a lot of people against him, leaving some bad information for the future historian and wck researchers to get those information. The only way he can do is going to delete them.

Today, we can see why he likes to start a lot of his threads because he can control them, Like the "Sifu Sergio report on White Crane", there are a lot of evidence shown Hendrik telling lies. The thread is not good on him, then he deleted it because he wouldn't like the future historians and wck researchers to find his lies there.

They like to make use of each other to achieve their benefits. Hendirk and Sergio, Sifu Wayne Yung asked you to read, and see how you make use of Sergio to promote, and how Sergio being used to gain the mutual benefit below.

"佢行為己超越我的底線很多，離晒譜，簡直不知所謂，無中生有。跟佢的，盡段，佢黐線的", dated 2014-1-28, this show Hendrik you had done very very bad on Sifu Wayne Yung without any reason early this year, and Sifu Wayne Yung claimed that you are really a crazy man.



KentChang, more about how they make use of Sergio. Hendrik and Sergio should read it. The following was posted yesterday and it was totally removed in the thread "Inside The Snake Crane Wing Chun Controversy", and the thread was created by Jim Roselando yesterday, and now is locked.



Originally Posted by ccwayne View Post
1月28日

2014-1-28 10:36
Robert Chu
Why not meet with Sergio? Clear up things. Get the credit you deserve. I believe in you.
I think you're doing a great job for our family.
Again, I think its just a misunderstanding. Brothers sometimes fight and learn more about each other.

2014-1-28 10:45
Wayne Yung
佢行為己超越我的底線很多，離晒譜，簡直不知所謂，無中生有。跟佢的，盡段，佢黐線的

2014-1-28 10:47
Wayne Yung
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...c-announcement
A public announcement
www.kungfumagazine.com
A public announcement. The Wck information I present to the Wck world is based on the yik kam lineage and my own research and attainment for decades . I do not present any art of snake crane lineage because I have never study it and not in the position to present. As always, I recommended to wcners…

2014-1-28 10:47
Robert Chu
OK, but that doesn't mean you cannot do for yourself.

2014-1-28 10:47
Wayne Yung
所做的只被人取笑

2014-1-28 10:48
Robert Chu
Again, I only think that's just his way of saying he does not steal Snake Crane WCK

2014-1-28 10:48
Wayne Yung
Robert, I need to stop all related to him.
That is what you think.

2014-1-28 10:49
Robert Chu
OK. Just cool down, brother. When the emotions are normal, you can sort out better.

2014-1-28 10:50
Wayne Yung
He can clean up with me. Actually, just a personal matter only. In the beginning with me only, later, with my scwc. Facebook not sufficient and need to post to kfo. hahah..
Of course, I understand that. I was quiet last week, because I want to let time rinse it off. However, I didn't realize he posted to kfo. What means. Do all the people there knowing his relationship with scwc? Why put scwc in a bad position openly.

2014-1-28 10:52
Robert Chu
Be at peace, brother.
I don't think people don't think much of it. Maybe you think too much of it?
He's just stating he has no SCWC documents in his possession.

2014-1-28 10:53
Wayne Yung
I cannot stand for such behaviour. Will I bring out all his stuff to the public and saying I have no relation with him any more. IT is not the public matter. He should think who he is.

2014-1-28 10:54
Robert Chu
Yes, I see your side. And I see his side.

2014-1-28 10:54
Wayne Yung
Yes, your are right, people jut gossipping around then will forget. My point is that it shouldn't be occurred any way.
Did I openly say anything even I am not happy with his actions ?

2014-1-28 10:55
Robert Chu
People don't know details and generally don't think so deeply.
Most people just look at things superficially.

2014-1-28 10:55
Wayne Yung
I have my way to do scwc, and no need his help.

2014-1-28 10:56
Robert Chu
Of course. I just state for my opinion that you simply use Sergio for your own benefit, not let him use you, but you use him.

2014-1-28 10:57
Wayne Yung
Honest speaking, I never go to him, and just he came to me, try to make friendship, build up trust and take my things only.

2014-1-28 10:57
Robert Chu
HS?

2014-1-28 10:58
Wayne Yung
I don't understand what you mean above. I use Sergio ?
Yes, it is HS. I don't know Sergio, and never to him before, just last night messaging only, is my first time message him.

2014-1-28 10:59
Robert Chu
I'm saying you take the opportunity to use him for publicity. That is all.
Honestly, you and HS mutally benefited.

2014-1-28 11:02
Wayne Yung
Robert, did I do anything open to public ? He is 無中生有，似是如非 in our llast Saturday conversation only. Then he started the war.
OK, if you took me in this way, I have nothing to say any more. For publicity, hahaha... Any actions on publicity I have done, but HS only.
Hahha... simple thing become more complex, now I make use of this for publicity. Remember all we still in the chatting room and via email to express my unhappiness on him. I still keep my mouth shut. I am not happy with him why bring those stuff on the table openly.
I have no intention on publicity.

2014-1-28 11:05
Robert Chu
Wayne, you will be Jeung Mun Yan, and HS is Jeung Mun Yan of YK WCK. We all know each other, we're all close to the same age. We will all be around for the next generation... we should get along.
I still do not think your ratings have suffered at all.

2014-1-28 11:06
Wayne Yung
Any way, I have nothing more to say. Please see any benefit I can gain if I make use of this as publicity.

2014-1-28 11:06
Robert Chu
You are still a great star in HK!
I am not saying the HS incident. That's already passed.
I am talking to expose more about our SCWC family.
Nothing to do with HS.

2014-1-28 11:07
Wayne Yung
hahaha... I am sorry I don't know I am a star in HK, provide that HS post more on me openly.

2014-1-28 11:07
Robert Chu
Sihing, you can be stubborn, too.

2014-1-28 11:08
Wayne Yung
OK, Robert, I know what I should do. anyway.

2014-1-28 11:08
Robert Chu
I think a lot of this is overthinking.l
What?

2014-1-28 11:08
Wayne Yung
Let see whether I make use Sergio or not, that is what you think.

2014-1-28 11:08
Robert Chu
Yes.
Its just publicity for SCWC.
IN the west, you're hardly known.
It will be tremendous benefit, overall. Many will invite you for seminars to teach.

2014-1-28 11:10
Wayne Yung
robert, I never contact Sergio before, never never, He just whatapps me before he depart for Europe last week, and last night is my first time to say to him after his sifu Sunny So calling me yersterday.
OK! any way, you seems to bring another burning point up. No more to say. bye.

2014-1-28 11:11
Robert Chu
You're not angry with me, are you?

2014-1-28 11:12
Wayne Yung
You talk about me making use of others. hahah.... OK! I will never see Servio in my life. OK. Sure not to do. How come you think about me in this way.
Honest speaking, HS is making use of him ,just like making use of me.
I don't know him and no reason I need to contact him. hahahah...

2014-1-28 11:13
Robert Chu
I just say for publicity. Please don't misunderstand.
I think you're sensitive now.
I only wish the best for you Wayne.
Please don't misunderstand me.
I think maybe I don't quite say it right. If so, I apologize, Si Hing.

2014-1-28 11:17
Wayne Yung
OK lah! I need to work. Robert, I have my job, my family, my students, my classes, my scwc works, .... I am not a superman. I cannot accept that HS everyday, make so many utubes and bringing our a lot of what he think theory to educate people and ME TOO. I am really tired on his works. He has just his wck only. nothing else.

2014-1-28 11:17
Wayne Yung
Everyday, he send me utubes, telling a lot on his wck works.

2014-1-28 11:22
Wayne Yung
He has his dream in his mind. However, whether is is realistic or not, he cannot make clear of himself. He is really sick on wck. In OCt, we had discusssed about his daily posting. You had mentioned you didn't response his posting because you respect him. Me too. Actually, I have a lot of objection on his utube explaination. eg 7 bows : if the 7th bow use as what he said, the whole body will become unstable and falling forward, Why the ancestors not discovered that, because they tried and found out. You can see a lot tcma, never raised it up. Maybe White Crane.

2014-1-28 11:25
Wayne Yung
I can explaqin the YJKYM more detail than what he said. Richard and John enjoyed my analysis on how to bring the direct pushing force to the ground and how the ground force reacts. Hahah.. He just think he is superior than others, but never think we respect and not to object him only. Yes, he know how to use the right term name, but doesn't mean his explaination truely right.

2014-1-28 11:26
Wayne Yung
Honest specaking, on our relastionship, it is his intention to gain something from scwc only. I never approach him.

2014-1-28 11:31
Wayne Yung
MoMore, I never ask him any about Yik Kam, but he make use a lot scwc to re-assemble his ykwc. I also never ask his kuen kuit, but he a lot he is interesting ours. I don't mind to share with him even he is not scwc because I trust him before his public announcemtn. However, what he reacted.... hhahaha.... He also said my Jealous of Sergio. hahah... Robert, how come I make use of Sergio for publicity. Please tell me. Do I plan to do this? Or Do we plan to do ? hahah.... Now, no Sergio, nothing more related to him and you will see that.

2014-1-28 11:33
Wayne Yung
Time will show me any deal with Sergio. hahaha...
無中生有，似是如非

[PalmStriker]

:) I was just reading that Snake style Kungfu was one of the earliest of styles to be associated with internal development. Hendrik did produce some old Yik Kam lineage document pages to show that their SLT set was Qigong base more-so than the general SLT develoment practices of most other lineages, even those who incorporate snake boxing San Sik into their systems. Believability, somewhat. Emei connection obsession, yes. All I personally see in WingChun as a style is snake and crane fusion that was later given a name other than Southern SnakeCrane Boxing. In fact, I'm not even going to refer to this style as "Wing Chun" at all. http://chinesemartialstudies.com/2014/06/12/fighting-styles-or-martial-brands-an-economic-approach-to-understanding-lost-lineages-in-the-chinese-martial-arts-2/

[Daniel Fong]

In the past on Facebook, Hendrik always makes yik kam wck analogy to 「笑敖江湖」story by 金庸

8718


He said :「葵花寶典」 = Ermei 12 Zhaung ,
8719


He said :「辟邢劍譜」 = ykwc kuit.
8720


However, 練「葵花寶典」或「辟邢劍譜」，必須「欲練神功 必先自宮」。
8721


No more any sexual life!!!
\

[Paddington]

[...]

Hendrik leaves a lot of things to draw criticism about. I just thought that the fact he used a movie character to illustrate a common hand position in Wing Chun was a relatively minor one!

Agreed, perhaps I was being too harsh here. One day I'll find a happy medium, I promise!

*goes back to twiddling beads, muttering 'right mind, right speech'*

[Paddington]

[...]http://chinesemartialstudies.com/2014/06/12/fighting-styles-or-martial-brands-an-economic-approach-to-understanding-lost-lineages-in-the-chinese-martial-arts-2/

Thanks for the link PalmStriker. I felt like I was reading my own posts! I really like that blog, some great stuff on it.

[Minghequan]

Similarities do not mean any White Crane DNA is present. -The term 昭陽 does not be exclusively used in White Crane, it is a common term in Fujian 五祖拳 (Wuzu) too. Also, many similarities can also be found in Fujian 五祖拳.

[LFJ]

Similarities do not mean any White Crane DNA is present. -The term 昭陽 does not be exclusively used in White Crane, it is a common term in Fujian 五祖拳 (Wuzu) too. Also, many similarities can also be found in Fujian 五祖拳.

Not to mention the entire system bearing this name, Zhaoyangquan, found in Henan.

The stupidest excuse ever is to suggest that someone went to Fujian 300 years ago and copied only the one term to use as a name for their unrelated style back in Henan Province. You'd think they'd copy something more worthwhile after that trek... :D

That's even stupider than saying his Wing Chun contains White Crane DNA because it has this word in its kyut.

[Minghequan]

What in the Blue Hell is "White Crane DNA" anyhow???

Good God .. can he not just say "techniques or concepts, principles"???

And one hand form? hardly some sort of "Smoking Gun" of proof!

[zuti car]

8719[/ATTACH]


8720



This notebooks can be bought in any book store in Taiwan for for 150 NTD's. I have one with Shaolin characters and stamp

[Paddington]

Well, it appears Hendrik has kicked me out of his Facebook group. It is strange because I have spoken up about the positives of what he has shared as well as the negatives. I guess my critique of his historical method did not go down too well nor my suggestion on how not to antagonize people on KFO forums. No big loss I guess, just a shame I can't converse with them and ask questions like I had been.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Paddington;1271303]Well, it appears Hendrik has kicked me out of his Facebook group. It is strange because I have spoken up about the positives of what he has shared as well as the negatives. I guess my critique of his historical method did not go down too well nor my suggestion on how not to antagonize people on KFO forums. No big loss I guess, just a shame I can't converse with them and ask questions like I had be///
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

No good deed shall go unrewarded!

[zuti car]

Well, it appears Hendrik has kicked me out of his Facebook group. It is strange because I have spoken up about the positives of what he has shared as well as the negatives. I guess my critique of his historical method did not go down too well nor my suggestion on how not to antagonize people on KFO forums. No big loss I guess, just a shame I can't converse with them and ask questions like I had been.

Like any cult leader he cannot stand any disagreement , not a big loss .

[Paddington]

No good deed shall go unrewarded!

You know, it is really hard to follow this 'right mind, right speech' ideal because of excess relativity; what is considered 'right' by one is considered 'wrong' by another. No matter, I'll just keep trying to fragment my self as far as possible.

[JPinAZ]

Well, it appears Hendrik has kicked me out of his Facebook group. It is strange because I have spoken up about the positives of what he has shared as well as the negatives. I guess my critique of his historical method did not go down too well nor my suggestion on how not to antagonize people on KFO forums. No big loss I guess, just a shame I can't converse with them and ask questions like I had been.

LOL Which one of his group would that be that? Just like here with his disappearing threads trick, he's created & deleted over a dozen 'groups' on FB... :eek:

[LFJ]

Nonsense! The internet eats them.


4. I have never deleted anything I post.

[Wayfaring]

Nonsense! The internet eats them.

It was the dog. The dog I tell you. He started out with my homework, and now has progressed on to internet discussion threads.

[Hendrik]

Well, it appears Hendrik has kicked me out of his Facebook group. It is strange because I have spoken up about the positives of what he has shared as well as the negatives. I guess my critique of his historical method did not go down too well nor my suggestion on how not to antagonize people on KFO forums. No big loss I guess, just a shame I can't converse with them and ask questions like I had been.


1. Haven't you read my reply to your email?

2. Haven't you read my reply to your Facebook message?

3. What is the point to post this post before get the facts?

Isn't this post show your true color toward who tread you fairly with reason ?


4. When I share, I have never had a string attached and no obligation. So, we are from different planet. That is for sure.



From your posts, I understand you are Mr. Perfect , the reference model who I need to look up to or else I get burn in hell. Sorry, i am not interested in this type of offer.

[Minghequan]

1. Haven't you read my reply to your email?

2. Haven't you read my reply to your Facebook message?

3. What is the point to post this post before get the facts?

Isn't this post show your true color toward whoever help you and tread you fairly with reason ?

Simple Hendrik, post it all here and let us make the decisions and by the way what in the Blue Hell do you mean by "tread you fairly with reason"??? I mean WTF?

[Hendrik]

Simple Hendrik, post it all here and let us make the decisions and by the way what in the Blue Hell do you mean by "tread you fairly with reason"??? I mean WTF?

1. It is none of your business.
2. I don't need your approval .

[Minghequan]

1. It is none of your business.
2. I don't need your approval .

1/. When you post here on a public forum of which I and many others are contributing members you "Make it our business" ... what about that don't you understand?

If you don't want to make it our business then simple, don't bloody post here!

2/. Great! Then stop trying so hard to prove yourself here as it sure looks like your hanging out for people to validate and approve of you! Otherwise, you remain simply a "Story-Teller", "Show-Boater" acting like a petulant little child seeking approval and attention!

[GlennR]

1. Haven't you read my reply to your email?

2. Haven't you read my reply to your Facebook message?

3. What is the point to post this post before get the facts?

Isn't this post show your true color toward who tread you fairly with reason ?


4. When I share, I have never had a string attached and no obligation. So, we are from different planet. That is for sure.



From your posts, I understand you are Mr. Perfect , the reference model who I need to look up to or else I get burn in hell. Sorry, i am not interested in this type of offer.

Is there anyone you dont turn on?

Seriously, you need to have a good look at yourself

[zuti car]

Is there anyone you dont turn on?

Seriously, you need to have a good look at yourself
Yes, a good look ,but I doubt he is capable to do that

[LFJ]

Isn't this post show your true color toward who tread you fairly with reason ?

I think you mean "who treats you fairly with reason".

But Hendrik, that is not you! When you delete threads you also delete the posts of everyone who participated in them. That includes Paddington. Who are you to delete someone else's posts on here? You are not a moderator.

You don't treat anyone fairly when you delete all their posts. And then you lie about it and deny deleting anything. The type of behavior is very low.

[Paddington]

1. Haven't you read my reply to your email?

2. Haven't you read my reply to your Facebook message?

3. What is the point to post this post before get the facts?

Isn't this post show your true color toward who tread you fairly with reason ?


4. When I share, I have never had a string attached and no obligation. So, we are from different planet. That is for sure.



From your posts, I understand you are Mr. Perfect , the reference model who I need to look up to or else I get burn in hell. Sorry, i am not interested in this type of offer.

Hendrik, I do not know why you attack me by this line "From your posts, I understand you are Mr. Perfect , the reference model who I need to look up to or else I get burn in hell". The only reference model I have suggested is one where you use a proper methodology and stop using this word 'fact'.

It is in my nature to be overly critical Hendrik, just as I am overly critical of others as well as myself. If you must know my true colours are a combination of red and black, split in two upon a flag along the diagonal and no, I am not perfect nor the best at wing chun that posts here.

[Daniel Fong]

Hendrik, are you saying your sifu didn't even teach you one of the 4 ways to issue power in your lineage? Did you not complete the system? Who told you this 4th power even exists, or were you just guessing? How much of YK WC did you actually learn - only 75%??


Originally Posted by Phenix View Post
Joy,

Yik Kam has 4 key points in issuing power.

SuK ------Shrink
Laat ----- release
Chaan ---- vibrate
Dong----- Swing.


In my understanding, in my lineage, for passed 60 years not too many know these points, understand these key points, and the structure according to the points. to be able to generate it.

Thus, might be another lost art .......

Originally Posted by Phenix View Post
Thus, I have heard. Swing is swinging.

I guess there is someway to use momentum...... pendulum-ing? Just my guess.

Wow, 2003 long time posting!!! This showed Hendrik a liar a liar a liar a liar again.

Sifu Wayne Yung always mentions that Hendrik never complete his ykwc SNT because Hendrik staying with him for few years for the scwc stuff to rebuild his ykwc SNT. Also, complete and incomplete, sifu Wayne Yung referred to the way how to play and the applications too.

JPinAZ, you are right, in 2003, Hendrik SNT arts maybe less than 75 %. Till today, we still cannot see how Hendrik does his Hendrik ykwc SNT in one smooth play. Even he can play the form, does it mean the way he plays right and he knows all the applications. Today, he can also make his Hendrik ykwc SNT from the SNT youtubes of GM Ku and GM Cheung both from Malaysia.

In 1998 Hendrik video, Sifu Wayne Yung mentioned he never see Hendrik play his SNT form smoothly.

I don't think this 1998 SNT video is a complete set too. Hendrik said this video was recorded in Robert's school. In case of anything happened on him, Rene Ritch, Robert Chu both keep a copy of that. The video there sure is not a completer SNT playing. There are a lot of stop, think and play motions there. Also, it seems a first time meeting with robert chu. It is likely ykwc and yipman wck exchange more than just recording.

[kentchang]

Sifu Wayne Yung always mentions that Hendrik never complete his ykwc SNT because Hendrik staying with him for few years for the scwc stuff to rebuild his ykwc SNT. Also, complete and incomplete, sifu Wayne Yung referred to the way how to play and the applications too.

Base on all this new evidence presented by many parties, I have to agree with Sifu Wayne Yung's comments that on Hendrik's SLT video, Hendrik Santo's Yik Kam SLT was perform poorly and wasn't complete. Supposedly Hendrik and Robert Chu just recently met for the first time, and just few months ago, Robert Chu told Sifu Yung that he had never seen Hendrik's complete set of SLT. But in the past decade, Hendrik mentioned that he passed his SLT to Robert Chu. There's some conflict and confusion here.


Originally posted by ccwayne
4. Robert Chu told me in the hotel room in October, he didn't see Hendrik full set SNT and ask me weather I watched it or not.

Sifu Yung had mentioned Robert Chu's baisee story with the SCWC teacher, lasted less than two hours with the teacher, including time gossiping. During this short period of time Robert Chu watched the teacher performing SCWC SLT once, then copied and took away some SCWC document. Shortly after that, Robert Chu claimed that he learned a lot from SCWC school on WCI. Furthermore Robert Chu is presenting himself as an authority on the subject of SCWC to Sergio Iadarola. Obviously Sifu Yung has his reasons to be upset about this false presentation of SCWC to the public. Now, looking back these two events, people wonder why certain individuals would come out acting like a WCK authority in such short period time. Sergio Iadarola has fallen for this kind of story again by not researching to verify the source.



Originally posted by Hendrik
5. Sergio open to public statement :

Just to make clear to all we have 2 Grandmaster saying that they see Emei and White Crane movements in the Siu Nim Tau set from 1848.

the last thing we want is to drag respectable grandmasters like GM FU of Emei or GM Lee Kong of Fujian White Crane into a political issue.

its just a reference for our research nothing more and nothing less,

GM Fu identified half of the KUIT to be Emei based and GM Lee Kong agreed that the term Zhao Yang in the kuit number 18 is a White Crane term and both saw their respective arts back in the movements of the 1848 set that are the facts nothing more nothing less.


Now, Sergio is singing Hendrik's song and promoting the Ermei 12 Zhaung as the origin of WCK. Before this Ermei, he once was a believer in Black Flag HKB nonsense as well. According to these links below, Kenneth Lin only has a few months Yip Man WC training under this Sifu Chung Che Man. One wonders about the credibility of Sergio who has 20 to 30 years of wing Chun experience was so easily misled by some amateur.

http://vtmshaolinbull5hit.blogspot.com/2011/08/benny-mengs-vtm-conclusion-on-wing-chun.html?m=1

http://protectingrealshaolin.wordpress.com!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I suggest you guys speak for yourselves and STOP being other people into this without their permission, understood?

[Vajramusti]

I suggest you guys speak for yourselves and STOP being other people into this without their permission, understood?
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Hendrik's missionary spamming and many of the the responses directed at Hendrik have really messed up this forum.

[sanjuro_ronin]

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Hendrik's missionary spamming and many of the the responses directed at Hendrik have really messed up this forum.

No argument from me on that.
It needs to stop.