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kung fu fighter
06-15-2014, 11:27 AM
I can't speak for Wing Chun but in White Crane we have been told that "all kicks are within the arms" meaning that the kicks themselves are not extended too far beyond the arms reach.
8705

We also do our kicks at a 45 degree angle without full extension of the leg and without aligning the standing foot, hip knee and kicking foot in a line like you may see in Karate or Taekwondo.

8704


Nice Post Ron,
This is also in line with how I was taught to kick in wing chun. I started this thread with the intention that this would be a great opportunity to start up a discussion on a comparision of wing chun and white crane concepts and principles.

Some topics of discussion could include The fujian white crane Bagua concept, or strategies of stepping ( chart with a code for actual strategies) mui fa baat gwa (plum blossom eight trigrams) http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/559/dlzq.jpg.

The diagonal angles (Four Horizontal golden points) and minor blocks. (up, down , left and right. The bagua strategies of kicking and hand bridge work.

lien wan kao da (continuous capture hit)

Fujian white crane principle of going to the forth door

Minghequan
06-15-2014, 06:46 PM
Really pushed for time at the moment as I'm pushing myself to get my final draft of my book/syllabus finished within the next two weeks so my answers and input (For now) will be brief!

I will address an number of the areas you have raised soon but for right now my focus is on my writing. I will try to pop back later today and add something to the discussion.

How is this for a starter:

8717

This is the 梅花 柱子 Plum Blossom Pillars Illustration as used in our White crane and you can clearly see the lines or aspects of movement, Gates and directions.

kung fu fighter
06-15-2014, 08:17 PM
Really pushed for time at the moment as I'm pushing myself to get my final draft of my book/syllabus finished within the next two weeks so my answers and input (For now) will be brief!

I will address an number of the areas you have raised soon but for right now my focus is on my writing. I will try to pop back later today and add something to the discussion.

How is this for a starter:

8717

This is the 梅花 柱子 Plum Blossom Pillars Illustration as used in our White crane and you can clearly see the lines or aspects of movement, Gates and directions.

thanks for the reply,
Perhaps you can explain what the arrows mean on the outside?

Minghequan
06-15-2014, 09:31 PM
Differing Directions (circular) in relation to the opponent using the front, side, back and other angles.

Minghequan
06-15-2014, 10:54 PM
Some more on White Crane

“IRON SAND / CRANE PALM”

Within the White Crane Gongfu art this Hand Form is used more than any other. It is a Signature Characteristic of the style on an internal level. The Wu Bei Zhi states that one point for this attack is the “Fengchi” (Pool of Wind) Point struck in and downward on the nerve sending the energy down to the way the nerve itself has exited the body following this neural pathway. The strike can also be delivered upward & in towards the skull at a 45 degree angle causing loss of motor function & consciousness by directly attacking the Lesser Occipital Nerve.

8725

The Iron Sand Palm uses a special Exploding transference of energetics into the desired target via the palm. Quickly splaying or extending the fingers causes the palm to generate an expansive energy upon impact resulting in a shock wave. Much like hitting water in a container causing a strong vibrational ripple effect!

8726

The fingers are depicted as being “pulled” or “held” backwards …extended if you will, allowing the upper and lower palm areas to be extended forward into the strike. This teaches the initiated White Crane Gongfu practitioner that the Palm is “exploded” forward via the stretching or splaying of the fingers. This is one of the true Secrets of White Crane Gongfu and Dim Mak or Pressure Point / Blood Gate Striking …. Short, sharp, natural kinetic energy transfer ~ the Hallmark of true Original White Crane Gongfu! The palm “Explodes” onto the point and a slight “Twist” or tweaking action should also be used to transfer the kinetic energy into the area being struck.

The “Tianzhu” (Heavenly Pillar) point (Greater Occipital Nerve) can also be struck producing a similar response. As can the “Heavenly Window” – Tianchuang which is described as being a “Window of the Sky” point as it disrupts the opponents “Shen” or “Spirit” ….. one of the more deadly points of the Wu Bei Zhi’s dusty pages.

“Yinfeng” known as the “Shielding Wind” or “Wind Screen” point is a major point to be struck with this Hand Form.

Mentioned in the Wu Bei Zhi’s “Diagram of the Bronze Statue” 36 Points are listed. Amongst those points is the aforementioned “Yinfeng”. Here a secret is revealed ….. the name “Shielding Wind” or “Wind Field” relates to that of the Qi and the protection of same (Life Energy) so an attack here will be fatal.

It effects both the great auricularnerve and branches of the facial nerve.In terms of Traditional Chinese Medicine it is the intersection of the Triple Warmer and Gall Bladder Meridian with The Triple warmer being associated with the Fire Element and the Gall Bladder, the Wood element. Of course these are but a few of the areas that can be struck with this hand form.

8724

This strike is used to attack the Sishencong points made up of four main points on the top of the head as well as the Baihui Point in the Centre. A strike can also be delivered with great effect to Yangbai (“Yang White”). One can clearly see the difference in the energetics of the Palms shown. The palm itself has transferred from a Yin to Yang state of energetics overloading the opponent’s body in term of the energetics. Yin Strikes will cause the opponents body to fold in and down while a Yang attack will cause the opponents body to open, lifting the feet off the floor in a less controlled fall and more volatile action. That used in the strike has the fingers splayed and the palm “pads” projected forwards adding kinetic percussive energy into the strike as per the illustration of the Iron Sand Fan Palm as seen within the Wu Bei Zhi

Minghequan
06-18-2014, 02:00 AM
Hey KF-Fighter (and others)

You wanted some points for discussion so I have put this out there, no response?

Vajramusti
06-18-2014, 09:09 AM
Hey KF-Fighter (and others)

You wanted some points for discussion so I have put this out there, no response?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciated seeing the pic of the plum blossom with the 8 jongs superimposed on a balanced way.

Those symbols are meaningful to some Ip Man wing chun folks. Me anyway.

kung fu fighter
06-18-2014, 10:58 AM
Differing Directions (circular) in relation to the opponent using the front, side, back and other angles.

Thanks for the diagram and explanation Ron!

In my wing chun, in regards to footwork I use the 8 angular lines on the inside of your diagram (plum blossom footwork) for offence, and the outside arrows for evasion or repositioning for an immediate counter attack (Bagua). Is the footwork in Fujian white crane applied using the same concept or idea in mind?

Does this diagram apply to just Fujian white crane footwork or hand/bridge work as well?

Also Can you explain what's going with the lines or aspects of movement, Gates and directions of this Plum Blossom Pillars diagram?

[http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8727&stc=1&d=1402901087


“IRON SAND / CRANE PALM”

Within the White Crane Gongfu art this Hand Form is used more than any other. It is a Signature Characteristic of the style on an internal level. The Wu Bei Zhi states that one point for this attack is the “Fengchi” (Pool of Wind) Point struck in and downward on the nerve sending the energy down to the way the nerve itself has exited the body following this neural pathway. The strike can also be delivered upward & in towards the skull at a 45 degree angle causing loss of motor function & consciousness by directly attacking the Lesser Occipital Nerve.

8725

The Iron Sand Palm uses a special Exploding transference of energetics into the desired target via the palm. Quickly splaying or extending the fingers causes the palm to generate an expansive energy upon impact resulting in a shock wave. Much like hitting water in a container causing a strong vibrational ripple effect!

8726

The fingers are depicted as being “pulled” or “held” backwards …extended if you will, allowing the upper and lower palm areas to be extended forward into the strike. This teaches the initiated White Crane Gongfu practitioner that the Palm is “exploded” forward via the stretching or splaying of the fingers. This is one of the true Secrets of White Crane Gongfu and Dim Mak or Pressure Point / Blood Gate Striking …. Short, sharp, natural kinetic energy transfer ~ the Hallmark of true Original White Crane Gongfu! The palm “Explodes” onto the point and a slight “Twist” or tweaking action should also be used to transfer the kinetic energy into the area being struck.

The “Tianzhu” (Heavenly Pillar) point (Greater Occipital Nerve) can also be struck producing a similar response. As can the “Heavenly Window” – Tianchuang which is described as being a “Window of the Sky” point as it disrupts the opponents “Shen” or “Spirit” ….. one of the more deadly points of the Wu Bei Zhi’s dusty pages.

“Yinfeng” known as the “Shielding Wind” or “Wind Screen” point is a major point to be struck with this Hand Form.

Mentioned in the Wu Bei Zhi’s “Diagram of the Bronze Statue” 36 Points are listed. Amongst those points is the aforementioned “Yinfeng”. Here a secret is revealed ….. the name “Shielding Wind” or “Wind Field” relates to that of the Qi and the protection of same (Life Energy) so an attack here will be fatal.

It effects both the great auricularnerve and branches of the facial nerve.In terms of Traditional Chinese Medicine it is the intersection of the Triple Warmer and Gall Bladder Meridian with The Triple warmer being associated with the Fire Element and the Gall Bladder, the Wood element. Of course these are but a few of the areas that can be struck with this hand form.

8724

This strike is used to attack the Sishencong points made up of four main points on the top of the head as well as the Baihui Point in the Centre. A strike can also be delivered with great effect to Yangbai (“Yang White”). One can clearly see the difference in the energetics of the Palms shown. The palm itself has transferred from a Yin to Yang state of energetics overloading the opponent’s body in term of the energetics. Yin Strikes will cause the opponents body to fold in and down while a Yang attack will cause the opponents body to open, lifting the feet off the floor in a less controlled fall and more volatile action. That used in the strike has the fingers splayed and the palm “pads” projected forwards adding kinetic percussive energy into the strike as per the illustration of the Iron Sand Fan Palm as seen within the Wu Bei Zhi

It would be great to hear more about this aspect of Fujian white crane.

Minghequan
06-20-2014, 08:46 PM
Really pushed for time at the moment as I'm pushing myself to get my final draft of my book/syllabus finished within the next two or three weeks plus poreparing for a major Workshop I'm teaching in Sydney as well as our DVD series so my answers and input (For now) will be brief!

I will address an number of the areas you have raised.


In my wing chun, in regards to footwork I use the 8 angular lines on the inside of your diagram (plum blossom footwork) for offence, and the outside arrows for evasion or repositioning for an immediate counter attack (Bagua). Is the footwork in Fujian white crane applied using the same concept or idea in mind?

Does this diagram apply to just Fujian white crane footwork or hand/bridge work as well?

Also Can you explain what's going with the lines or aspects of movement, Gates and directions of this Plum Blossom Pillars diagram?



1/. Yes very similar although the lines can also be defensive. One thing is that traditional, White crane does not step straight back as this give the time to the aggressor and also maximizes his forward kinetic energy.

2/. The diagram relates to A). Footwork, B). Defensive actions (Hand Bridge), C). Offensive actions (Hand Bridge).

3/. Are you talking about my diagram or the one you posted?

Looking forward to the discussion.

Vajramusti
06-20-2014, 09:18 PM
Really pushed for time at the moment as I'm pushing myself to get my final draft of my book/syllabus finished within the next two or three weeks plus poreparing for a major Workshop I'm teaching in Sydney as well as our DVD series so my answers and input (For now) will be brief!

I will address an number of the areas you have raised.




1/. Yes very similar although the lines can also be defensive. One thing is that traditional, White crane does not step straight back as this give the time to the aggressor and also maximizes his forward kinetic energy.

2/. The diagram relates to A). Footwork, B). Defensive actions (Hand Bridge), C). Offensive actions (Hand Bridge).

3/. Are you talking about my diagram or the one you posted?

Looking forward to the discussion.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds as though you are busy.

The plum blossom design and the 8 jongs are important also in some wing chun families.
I don't use the sanchin stance you seemed to use. But with good footwork one can appear to step back without
giving up the line or the distance to the target.

kung fu fighter
06-22-2014, 10:01 PM
here is a comparision of
FUJIAN WHITE CRANE FIVE ELEMENT HANDS AND WING CHUN TECHNIQUES

1) Water—Tan Sao

2) Wood—Biu Sao

3) Earth—Fook Sao

4) Metal—Ding Sao

5) Fire—Pak Sao



1/. Yes very similar although the lines can also be defensive. One thing is that traditional, White crane does not step straight back as this give the time to the aggressor and also maximizes his forward kinetic energy.

Same in wing chun!

kung fu fighter
07-01-2014, 08:11 AM
Hey Ron,
If you are still around, got 3 questions for you!
In your white crane linage, do you use a bagua chart and it's code in regards to actual stepping strategies?


3/. Are you talking about my diagram or the one you posted?

I am referring to this diagram http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8727&stc=1&d=1402901087


What are some strategies used in Fujian white crane to close the distance on an evasive opponent such as a western boxer?


Can you explain some examples of how "lien wan kao da (continuous capture hit)" is used or applied?

Minghequan
07-03-2014, 10:32 PM
Really pushed for time as I have only recently returned home after a series of successful workshops in Sydney.

To answer quickly ........

1/. Yes! this has to do also with energetics i. e. forward stepping = positive, backward stepping = negative, right side step = negative, left side step = positive etc. Raising the lead leg as one steps forward activates what we call water ocean and following this up with the rear leg/foot connects energetically to the opposite striking hand.

8815

2/. Ha! giving away secrets! We never step back unless totally forced to do so. Forward energy or at least energy that takes us in tangents to the opponent (Front and Side Gates) is the aim designed to overwhelm the attacker physically shutting down his attacks and dividing the opponents mind are but two applications. We have a number of what you most probably call "Entry Techniques" but too many to go into detail here. If I get a chance I will publish some photo's illustrating this:

8814

3/. The term explains itself really! You capture, hit with the closest hand weapon etc and flow! (Lin sil die dar).

kung fu fighter
07-03-2014, 11:54 PM
Thanks for the reply Ron!


1/. Yes! this has to do also with energetics i. e. forward stepping = positive, backward stepping = negative, right side step = negative, left side step = positive etc. Raising the lead leg as one steps forward activates what we call water ocean and following this up with the rear leg/foot connects energetically to the opposite striking hand.

Can you explain what the strategy/tactics are that's involved with this?



2/. Ha! giving away secrets! We never step back unless totally forced to do so. Forward energy or at least energy that takes us in tangents to the opponent (Front and Side Gates) is the aim designed to overwhelm the attacker physically shutting down his attacks and dividing the opponents mind are but two applications.

Same in wing chun!


We have a number of what you most probably call "Entry Techniques" but too many to go into detail here. If I get a chance I will publish some photo's illustrating this:

That would be great to see!

Is this some good examples of applications of "lien wan kao da (continuous capture hit)" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyLHro1W2GU? if not can you please post a decent video of this?

Minghequan
07-04-2014, 12:17 AM
Pushed for time so here goes ..........

1/. Strategy: Taking the opponents center so they have no base of power & counters. Making them "vacate" their positioning. Basic level stuff.

2/. 8817

Look closely. Here is a high step moving forward converted into a kick and the entry hands sticking tactile areas.

Another example:Master Liu Gu demonstrating the Fire Hands Application!

8818

The stance is the San Jiao Ma or Tri-Angle Battle Stance, the feet (in regards to the turning of the toes) are again not in a fully "open" or "closed" position.
This causes the activation of K-1 on the bottom of the foot.

The first article of the Wu Bei Zhi goes on to state about Principles of Movement:

• Moving in the stance should be almost the same as walking naturally. One begins the step gently and naturally and concludes it with firmness.
• Smoothly, each step is the same as the last, the big toe of the rear foot aligned with the heel of the other, with a distance of the shoulder separating them.
• Foot movement, both in a forward and backward direction should represent the circumference of a half-moon with the knees slightly bent.
• The quadriceps muscle groups must maintain a relaxed position allowing the ability to move quickly from that posture.

Even when you are naturally walking, please be aware of the coordination of air from within the body and synchronize it with each step or groups of steps and should you be attacked and struck, you will not relinquish your balance.

The relationship between your legs and body is similar to that of the wheels on a wagon. If you don't train your legs enough, you will have great hand technique with no stability or mobility, which is of little or no use.


It is usually taught by most as a "push" similar to that seen in Taiji.

However it can also be a strike to the Zhangmen - System's Door area by varying the height and timing of the strike.

The direction of such a strike would be straight inwards with the left Liver 13 point struck then the right Liver 13 point. The Liver 14 (Qimen - Expectations Door) can also be struck in a slightly inwards manner (laterally across the body).

Stomach 15 (Wuyi - Room Screen) and or Stomach 16 (Yingghuan - Breast's Window) can also be targeted to great effect (Stopping the heart!)
This uses a type of "squeeze" action of the elbows causing the hands to strike in a counter clockwise and clockwise fashion.

3/. The examples shown in the Vid: Rubbish! Not even close. Too much moving in and out, thus giving the opponent more reaction time. Also moving out, stopping and then re-initiating movement shows a total lack of kinetic energy ... moving one direction then stopping that movement then re-starting movement to another area ... dead in the water techniques!

We go in and use small techniques with applied energetics or kinetics (Six Ji Hands) in a totally natural manner, small motions, big effect!!! Real internal White Crane, not overtly exaggerated rubbish!

kung fu fighter
09-22-2014, 12:13 PM
Thanks for the reply Ron!


1/. Yes! this has to do also with energetics i. e. forward stepping = positive, backward stepping = negative, right side step = negative, left side step = positive etc. Raising the lead leg as one steps forward activates what we call water ocean and following this up with the rear leg/foot connects energetically to the opposite striking hand.

1/. Strategy: Taking the opponents center so they have no base of power & counters. Making them "vacate" their positioning. Basic level stuff.

I was referring more specificly to what the stepping strategy/tactics are to counter the opponent's stepping direction? for example is there a specific formula of where to step in relation to the direction of where the opponent is stepping?

How does the diagram provide a road map of where to step in relation to where the opponent is stepping in order to counter his movement?


"In wing chun Sometimes this footwork is referred to Um Ying Baat Gwa Bou, which increases the level of understanding again ( five elements /five form eight directions)"

What does the "five elements /five form" mean in regards to stepping/footwork in Fuzhou white crane ?

Minghequan
09-22-2014, 10:57 PM
Kf Fighter,

You are associated with Hendrik right?

Hendrik has written here on these forums ad-nauseam that he knows White Crane stating it is the "engine / technology" to his Wing Chun.

So I think it best you consult your Grandmaster Hendrik about White Crane as he likes to given the impression he knows so much (despite never training in the art? Go figure!)

kung fu fighter
09-23-2014, 01:45 AM
Ron,
up until now I tried to stay impartial in regards to your feud with Hendrik since we've had some productive discussions in the past.
I shared what i honestly thought of Hendrik and his Yik Kam wck system after meeting the man in person and experiencing what he speaks about directly.




Kf Fighter,

You are associated with Hendrik right?

Yes! and very proud to be.


Hendrik has written here on these forums ad-nauseam that he knows White Crane stating it is the "engine / technology" to his Wing Chun.

Hendrik never stated such things. He merely stated that wing chun contains the DNA signatures of Fujian white Crane and Emei Snake based on his research. He has mentioned snake engine, but I never heard he said White crane is the engine of his wing chun. Are you making this sh!t up to support your feud with him, or just delusional. lol


So I think it best you consult your Grandmaster Hendrik about White Crane as he likes to given the impression he knows so much (despite never training in the art? Go figure!)

Oh Please! Give me a break! what are you 10 years old? this is such childish behavior. "I won't be your friend if you are his friend" nonsense. Grow up!

LFJ
09-23-2014, 02:15 AM
Hendrik never stated such things. He merely stated that wing chun contains the DNA signatures of Fujian white Crane and Emei Snake based on his research.

Fabrication is not research. He has done no research.

(What are we gonna do? Create two identical threads here?)

Minghequan
09-23-2014, 03:59 AM
KF Fighter,

Mate check your tone and manners.

I never said anything bad about you nor did I resort to the petulant behaviour of calling you names (Delusional etc)


Are you making this sh!t up to support your feud with him, or just delusional. lol

What "sh!t" am I supposed to be making up exactly? I have no "feud" with Hendrik but I do regard him as being less than honest, highly evasive in answering ANY questions put to him to the point of purposeful misdirection, repeating everything he thinks ad-nauseam in the misguided hope it will then somehow turn into fact!


Oh Please! Give me a break! what are you 10 years old? this is such childish behavior. "I won't be your friend if you are his friend" nonsense. Grow up!

Now who is being childish? Really?

Show me where I made such a statement! Go ahead, knock yourself out! Show me where I wrote to you "I won't be your friend if you are his friend" ... go on. I won't be holding my breath waiting.


Hendrik has indeed taught you very well! Very, very well. You have his misdirection down 100% Congratulations!

I and numerous others on this forum have asked very straight forward up-front and easy to answer (if one is being honest that is) questions of Hendrik only to be met with "Gobbley Gook" or no answer at all as if he sits on high above everyone else here.

I have seen your Grandmaster Hendrik deride others for their opinions yet never once saw you "jump in to say it was wrong of him to deride others". Not once have you said Hendrik that's simply un-called for. Sorry buddy but your extreme bias is showing and it lets you down on all counts as being a singularly one-sided individual unable to see the forest for the trees!

If you go back over the millions and millions of posts here you would have seen that at one point I actually did support Hendrik in his right to express his views that was until he refused to answer even the most basic of questions!

I am down on Hendrik because he try's to tell me someone who has actually done both Wing Chun and White Crane what the arts should be. That is self-aggrandizement on the highest of levels and totally disrespectful to someone who has spent a large proportion of their lives in the pursuit of this art. At least I come from a perspective that is educated in that I have been properly exposed to both sides and arts within the argument he puts forward by actually making an attempt to at least explore the arts in mention.

Your Grandmaster Hendrik talks as if he is White Crane and has the right to speak for the art yet will not qualify if he has actually had any even the most basic of training in this art. I mean it's not that hard of a question.

He then attributes quotes to a Master of White Crane that were proven to have never had been made! In brief he lied! Yet I am now supposed to believe his word here? If you wish to follow the words and way of a proven liar great. More power to you. Its not for me.

As you are springing strongly to his defence then I'll ask you the questions Hendrik and his disciple Jim refuses to answer:

1/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in White Crane and with whom for how long? (not that hard to answer!)

2/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in Emei and with whom for how long? (Not that hard to answer!)

3/. Has Hendrik physically met and trained with Sergio? (Not that hard to answer!)

4/. Have you ever seen Hendrik spar using his Wing Chun (not a game of "pitty-pat" but real sparring!)?

5/. If you feel Hendrik has the answers you seek why ask me about White Crane?

Now old mate, these are not exactly hard questions to answer are they?

Hendrik
09-23-2014, 07:15 AM
Hendrik has written here on these forums ad-nauseam that he knows White Crane stating it is the "engine / technology" to his Wing Chun.

So I think it best you consult your Grandmaster Hendrik about White Crane as he likes to given the impression he knows so much (despite never training in the art? Go figure!)



1. I state my case on wing chun kuen has white crane and emei DNA here. I am a wcner . Not a grandmaster and care less to be one, or don't want to be one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



2. I am not a grandmaster and don't want to be one.

Hendrik
09-23-2014, 07:20 AM
Fabrication is not research. He has done no research.

(What are we gonna do? Create two identical threads here?)




I have shared the following to the wcners and public.


Wing chun Jin type based on white crane and emei DNA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



Wing Chun snap short since 1848
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JqSJQaULAI -






However, I don't expect a Song Shan Shao Lin modern Wu Shu guy to understand what I am talking about.

Hendrik
09-23-2014, 07:22 AM
Ron,


Beside you are not a wcner, keep asking stupid questions, what have you contribute?



I am down on Hendrik because he try's to tell me someone who has actually done both Wing Chun and White Crane what the arts should be.

That is self-aggrandizement on the highest of levels and totally disrespectful to someone who has spent a large proportion of their lives in the pursuit of this art.

At least I come from a perspective that is educated in that I have been properly exposed to both sides and arts within the argument he puts forward by actually making an attempt to at least explore the arts in mention.


I have heard from Australia karate community that you get your black belt by paying some fake grandmaster who is a taxi driver in japan or Okinawa. Is that true? That is the reason why you care so much on title such as Grandmaster?

I state my case on wing chun kuen has white crane and emei DNA technically in public. I am a wcner . Not a grandmaster and care less to be one, or don't want to be one.

Just face it, you are clueless on WCK.






Go watch these videos I share and ask sensible question. Otherwise, I take you not capable of communication

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67760-Fujian-white-crane-and-wing-chun-a-comparrision&p=1276822#post1276822




Hendrik has indeed taught you very well! Very, very well. You have his misdirection down 100% Congratulations!

Sure,

Like Sergio and many other wcners,
kungfu fighter have the force flow handling skill you don't have, this can be easily observe in all of your videos. You are a body type power generation guy Clueless on force flow handling but keep thinking you know it all.

It is very obvious that your so called Wck properly exposed are just what you like to think.




4/. Have you ever seen Hendrik spar using his Wing Chun (not a game of "pitty-pat" but real sparring!)?


You really think if I don't know my stuffs I can bulsh!t Kungfu fighter and Mike who are known Wck sifus in their martial art community when we met,

Be able to exchanging experience on different scenario and pro and con of counter attack, momentum,.. Kyokushin round kicks, mma take down......ect LoL ?


You Ron is just a guy projecting your own self thinking others is like you.




KF Fighter,

Mate check your tone and manners.

I never said anything bad about you nor did I resort to the petulant behaviour of calling you names (Delusional etc)



What "sh!t" am I supposed to be making up exactly? I have no "feud" with Hendrik but I do regard him as being less than honest, highly evasive in answering ANY questions put to him to the point of purposeful misdirection, repeating everything he thinks ad-nauseam in the misguided hope it will then somehow turn into fact!



Now who is being childish? Really?

Show me where I made such a statement! Go ahead, knock yourself out! Show me where I wrote to you "I won't be your friend if you are his friend" ... go on. I won't be holding my breath waiting.


Hendrik has indeed taught you very well! Very, very well. You have his misdirection down 100% Congratulations!

I and numerous others on this forum have asked very straight forward up-front and easy to answer (if one is being honest that is) questions of Hendrik only to be met with "Gobbley Gook" or no answer at all as if he sits on high above everyone else here.

I have seen your Grandmaster Hendrik deride others for their opinions yet never once saw you "jump in to say it was wrong of him to deride others". Not once have you said Hendrik that's simply un-called for. Sorry buddy but your extreme bias is showing and it lets you down on all counts as being a singularly one-sided individual unable to see the forest for the trees!

If you go back over the millions and millions of posts here you would have seen that at one point I actually did support Hendrik in his right to express his views that was until he refused to answer even the most basic of questions!

I am down on Hendrik because he try's to tell me someone who has actually done both Wing Chun and White Crane what the arts should be. That is self-aggrandizement on the highest of levels and totally disrespectful to someone who has spent a large proportion of their lives in the pursuit of this art. At least I come from a perspective that is educated in that I have been properly exposed to both sides and arts within the argument he puts forward by actually making an attempt to at least explore the arts in mention.

Your Grandmaster Hendrik talks as if he is White Crane and has the right to speak for the art yet will not qualify if he has actually had any even the most basic of training in this art. I mean it's not that hard of a question.

He then attributes quotes to a Master of White Crane that were proven to have never had been made! In brief he lied! Yet I am now supposed to believe his word here? If you wish to follow the words and way of a proven liar great. More power to you. Its not for me.

As you are springing strongly to his defence then I'll ask you the questions Hendrik and his disciple Jim refuses to answer:

1/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in White Crane and with whom for how long? (not that hard to answer!)

2/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in Emei and with whom for how long? (Not that hard to answer!)

3/. Has Hendrik physically met and trained with Sergio? (Not that hard to answer!)

4/. Have you ever seen Hendrik spar using his Wing Chun (not a game of "pitty-pat" but real sparring!)?

5/. If you feel Hendrik has the answers you seek why ask me about White Crane?

Now old mate, these are not exactly hard questions to answer are they?

Hendrik
09-23-2014, 08:01 AM
Ron,


I have state my case technically in these video on white crane and emei.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



Go a head, get your white crane grandmasters or wing chun grandmasters around the world, Hong Kong or china or Singapore.....etc all included, Ask them to proof me wrong technically with a utube response. Stating their case in details and evidence as I have in the utube.

I love to learn from them certainly.



LFJ,

Go a head, get your song Shan shao Lin monks to make a utube as above. I am waiting. Talk is cheap. State your case in utube in open public.

Wayfaring
09-23-2014, 09:45 AM
Ron,


I have state my case technically in these video on white crane and emei.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



Go a head, get your white crane grandmasters or wing chun grandmasters around the world, Hong Kong or china or Singapore.....etc all included, Ask them to proof me wrong technically with a utube response. Stating their case in details and evidence as I have in the utube.

I love to learn from them certainly.



LFJ,

Go a head, get your song Shan shao Lin monks to make a utube as above. I am waiting. Talk is cheap. State your case in utube in open public.


Talk is cheap!!!!! LOL!!!!

Now I can remember all the challenges where people meet up and "the hands do the talking" or whatever form of fighting each other / sparring is carried out. This however seems to be a throwdown of a different genus altogether. Somewhat akin to a boy band dance off, a rap "battle", or Wilmer Valderrama's short-lived reality show "Yo Mama", each participant "posts up" their YouTube video. State ur case, suckas!!!!! Next us, as the "open public" I suppose are going to need to either hold up score cards (2.5 - I fell asleep), or maybe we can bring back the ApplauseMeter from Casey Cason's Top 40 :cool: to see who really got the moves, got the logic, got it all?????!!!!

My only concern is what do we call this event? The "Wing Chun Rumble in the YouTube Jungle 2014" ???? :D:D:D

:D:D:D

LFJ
09-23-2014, 10:02 AM
Talk is cheap. State your case in utube in open public.

"Talk is cheap. State your case..."??? :(

Talk is cheap indeed! You've already stated your case. Now demonstrate that your "technology" works under pressure already, or stop spamming.

kung fu fighter
09-23-2014, 11:10 AM
KF Fighter,

Mate check your tone and manners.

I never said anything bad about you nor did I resort to the petulant behaviour of calling you names (Delusional etc)

Ok, fair enough! my bad, But what you were saying is untrue.




What "sh!t" am I supposed to be making up exactly? I have no "feud" with Hendrik but I do regard him as being less than honest, highly evasive in answering ANY questions put to him to the point of purposeful misdirection, repeating everything he thinks ad-nauseam in the misguided hope it will then somehow turn into fact! I and numerous others on this forum have asked very straight forward up-front and easy to answer (if one is being honest that is) questions of Hendrik only to be met with "Gobbley Gook" or no answer at all as if he sits on high above everyone else here.

If you go back over the millions and millions of posts here you would have seen that at one point I actually did support Hendrik in his right to express his views that was until he refused to answer even the most basic of questions!

I can understand Your frustration about Hendrik's style of answering questions. However, the things He speaks about cannot be explained in a forum, you have to touch hands and feel them one on one. your other Questions are very accusatory in nature and if I was Hendrik I would not answer them either.



Show me where I made such a statement! Go ahead, knock yourself out! Show me where I wrote to you "I won't be your friend if you are his friend" ... go on. I won't be holding my breath waiting.

You didn't wrote those words, but it was implied by your tone and refusal to reciprocate answering my question to you after I answered all your questions. In fact now that I think about it, I still continue to answer your additional questions in this post even though you refuse to answer my questions on this thread. http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67760-Fujian-white-crane-and-wing-chun-a-comparrision&p=1276805#post1276805




I am down on Hendrik because he try's to tell me someone who has actually done both Wing Chun and White Crane what the arts should be. That is self-aggrandizement on the highest of levels and totally disrespectful to someone who has spent a large proportion of their lives in the pursuit of this art. At least I come from a perspective that is educated in that I have been properly exposed to both sides and arts within the argument he puts forward by actually making an attempt to at least explore the arts in mention.

Ok, but did you study or research the Emei Snake art. If you did and still came to the same conclusion with DNA signatures evidence then i would say you have a point.




As you are springing strongly to his defence then I'll ask you the questions Hendrik and his disciple Jim refuses to answer:

1/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in White Crane and with whom for how long? (not that hard to answer!)

2/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in Emei and with whom for how long? (Not that hard to answer!)

3/. Has Hendrik physically met and trained with Sergio? (Not that hard to answer!)

4/. Have you ever seen Hendrik spar using his Wing Chun (not a game of "pitty-pat" but real sparring!)?

5/. If you feel Hendrik has the answers you seek why ask me about White Crane?

Now old mate, these are not exactly hard questions to answer are they?

Sorry Mate! i will not answer any more of your questions since you refuse to reciprocate. Why don't you go ask your grandmaster these questions. lol

Minghequan
09-23-2014, 11:30 PM
But what you were saying is untrue.

Ha! What about the outright lies I caught Hendrik out on in this very forum? What "excuses" do you make for that?


I can understand Your frustration about Hendrik's style of answering questions. However, the things He speaks about cannot be explained in a forum, you have to touch hands and feel them one on one. your other Questions are very accusatory in nature and if I was Hendrik I would not answer them either.


The things he speaks of cannot be explained in a forum? how terribly convenient! if they cannot be explained in a Forum then why in the Blue Hell does he continue to post away over, and over and over again?

My questions are accusatory in nature. No there not they are straight up and very simple questions that anyone should be able to answer openly honestly n easily.


Ok, but did you study or research the Emei Snake art. If you did and still came to the same conclusion with DNA signatures evidence then i would say you have a point.

Where did I ever state that I had ever studied Emei Snake Art??? i never did at least I'm honest enough to say so when asked. more smoke and diversionaray tactics rather than answering plain an simple question! Hendrik has taught you well!

So now you are agreeing with me that Hendrik ha not ever studied White Crane in any of its various forms?

Please KF Fighter enlighten me as to when and with whom Hendrik actually studied white crane with thus making him qualified to talk on that arts behalf as he does all too often here in the pages of this forum? I'm betting you won't answer and will try diverting away from offering straight up honest answer!


Sorry Mate! i will not answer any more of your questions since you refuse to reciprocate. Why don't you go ask your grandmaster these questions. lol

See now you resort to being simply childish. Really?

Lastly old buddy. When you stop acting like a ar$ehole maybe then I will give you an answer although I have no doubt my answer would be lost on you (and our Grandmaster Hendrik who is most likely "fishing for info") as neither of you have any real experience of White Crane!

Hendrik
09-24-2014, 12:10 PM
Where did I ever state that I had ever studied Emei Snake Art??? i never did at least I'm honest enough to say so when asked. more smoke and diversionaray tactics rather than answering plain an simple question! Hendrik has taught you well!

So now you are agreeing with me that Hendrik ha not ever studied White Crane in any of its various forms?

Please KF Fighter enlighten me as to when and with whom Hendrik actually studied white crane with thus making him qualified to talk on that arts behalf as he does all too often here in the pages of this forum? I'm betting you won't answer and will try diverting away from offering straight up honest answer!






Straight honest answer is as the following. However you will not like it and not be able to take it


I am coaching Kungfu fighter similar to many wcners on the snake engine and force flow handling, using exactly what I share in these videos with much more details.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



All of these material are from WCK SNT without any other add in. GM Fu had recognized the emei part of elements within the SNT. The fujian white Crane part of SNT is the common denominator of fujian crane as in the above video. As it, it is Wck.



Plain and simple answer is kungfu fighter has a good basic handling on it now. He knows and can do what he is talking about , but you don't what it is and keep speculate asking qualification....Etc.


It is a very simple issue, find out what it is before blindly jump gun to against and try to disprove with speculation, qualification....etc

That is the issue.

Minghequan
09-24-2014, 04:29 PM
Hendrik, earlier you posted a quite pointed accusation in my direction questioning my integrity and my right to White Crane.

So to answer your attempt at defaming me I attach below just a handful of my relevant qualifications.

I have nothing to hide Hendrik.

Can you now post your own so that we can all know you are a person of honour with nothing to hide?

9128

Here are some of mine now lets see yours!!!


Grandmaster Hendrik wrote:

Beside you are not a wcner, keep asking stupid questions, what have you contribute?

Be careful what you wish for!

As for my Wing Chun.I have never trained in Wing Chun? Are you so sure? Okay Grandmaster Hendrik, oh wise and all seeing one let me enlighten you ... I will answer you directly and honestly:

I actually originally trained in Wing Chun with my initial Instructor being one Guy Burton. I did this training in the Northern territory of Australia. This training was for a one and a half year period.

In my home town of Wellington I trained with Sifu David Parkes, himself a student of Sifu Jim Fung. (photo's can be supplied as proof)

I have trained more recently with Sifu Trey Woodford and have been certified in the techniques of the Ip Man, Sum Nung, Yuen Kay Shan lineages with the Certification issued 15th November 2013.

So Grandmaster Hendrik. I have ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS and wrongful and Defaming Accusations here in plain "black & white" .

Unlike you, I have nothing to hide and I unlike you do not need some lackey's (KF Fighter & Jim etc) to answer for me.

So Grandmaster Hendrik having fully answered your questions / accusations please answer my questions as outlined below:

1/. Have you Grandmaster Hendrik ever actually trained in White Crane and with whom for how long? (not that hard to answer!)

2/. Have you Grandmster Hendrik ever actually trained in Emei and with whom for how long? (Not that hard to answer!)

3/. Have you Grandmaster Hendrik physically met and trained with Sergio? (Not that hard to answer!)

Three questions.

* The first one can be answered with a yes or no and whom and how long. Pretty simple and very, very easy to answer!

* The second one can be answered with a yes or no and whom and how long. Pretty simple and very, very easy to answer!

* The third one can be answered with a yes or no. Pretty simple and very, very easy to answer!

Even one such a you should be able to answer these three simple questions!

Or will you avoid giving honest an factual answers like you have all along here?

Chun Ki
09-24-2014, 05:03 PM
All of these material are from WCK SNT without any other add in.
GM Fu had recognized the emei part of elements within the SNT. The fujian white Crane part of SNT is the common denominator of fujian crane as in the above video. As it, it is Wck.

add in CLF Kuit
add in SCWC kuit
add in fabricated simpilfied Chinese characters.
add in Emei elements then add in GM Fu's signature, a non-WC person.
add in crane speculation.
add in a few lol's
this is Hendrik's 2014 WC technology he developed for his 1848 Emei WC.

Minghequan
09-25-2014, 03:23 AM
Hendrik, earlier you posted a quite pointed accusation in my direction questioning my integrity and my right to White Crane.

So to answer your attempt at defaming me I attach below just a handful of my relevant qualifications.

I have nothing to hide Hendrik.

Can you now post your own so that we can all know you are a person of honour with nothing to hide?

9128

Here are some of mine now lets see yours!!!


Grandmaster Hendrik wrote:

Beside you are not a wcner, keep asking stupid questions, what have you contribute?

Be careful what you wish for!

As for my Wing Chun.I have never trained in Wing Chun? Are you so sure? Okay Grandmaster Hendrik, oh wise and all seeing one let me enlighten you ... I will answer you directly and honestly:

I actually originally trained in Wing Chun with my initial Instructor being one Guy Burton. I did this training in the Northern territory of Australia. This training was for a one and a half year period.

In my home town of Wellington I trained with Sifu David Parkes, himself a student of Sifu Jim Fung. (photo's can be supplied as proof)

I have trained more recently with Sifu Trey Woodford and have been certified in the techniques of the Ip Man, Sum Nung, Yuen Kay Shan lineages with the Certification issued 15th November 2013.

So Grandmaster Hendrik. I have ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS and wrongful and Defaming Accusations here in plain "black & white" .

Unlike you, I have nothing to hide and I unlike you do not need some lackey's (KF Fighter & Jim etc) to answer for me.

So Grandmaster Hendrik having fully answered your questions / accusations please answer my questions as outlined below:

1/. Have you Grandmaster Hendrik ever actually trained in White Crane and with whom for how long? (not that hard to answer!)

2/. Have you Grandmster Hendrik ever actually trained in Emei and with whom for how long? (Not that hard to answer!)

3/. Have you Grandmaster Hendrik physically met and trained with Sergio? (Not that hard to answer!)

Three questions.

* The first one can be answered with a yes or no and whom and how long. Pretty simple and very, very easy to answer!

* The second one can be answered with a yes or no and whom and how long. Pretty simple and very, very easy to answer!

* The third one can be answered with a yes or no. Pretty simple and very, very easy to answer!

Even one such a you should be able to answer these three simple questions!

Or will you avoid giving honest an factual answers like you have all along here?