Interesting New England Sites

[MarathonTmatt]

Here is a pic of a lost site I stumbled onto ("found") the other month. It is a Native American stone shrine in Massachusetts. It is not located next to a trail, although the boulder it was worked into can be seen in a distance from a trail, but one has to walk up to it and go around it to tell what it is. It is on the side of a heavily-wooded hill (the "jungle" grew back) and to the other side is a swampy marsh/pond, and there is a housing development relatively nearby, but the swamp is between the site and the houses (thank god- better chance of preservation.) Here is the pic I took:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jPfLds2bxQ8/U5bUNak_dhI/AAAAAAAAXQw/FhWjbmk7_XM/s1600/0517141845-00.jpg

There are also nearby Native American rock piles associated with this site as well. The other week I led a hike to the site, which included the Town Historian Joanne, Dr. Curtiss Hoffmann, professor of anthropology and archeology at Bridgewater State University, and several members of an organization called NEARA (New England Antiquities Research Association.) The NEARA members told me that they were going to run an article on the site in their next journal and that a pic of the shrine is going to be on the cover. They also told me that a couple of structures identical to this exist in a nearby town, except they are in a destroyed state, and it is only due to landowner's accounts that any integrity/ history of the other structures has survived at all.

Dr. Curtiss Hoffmann and others determined (with their fancy phones and gadgets) that there is a winter solstice alignment at the site, which was probably taken in to consideration when the structure was built. Other things I noticed were that there is room enough for 1 person to enter the shrine (probably the local Pawwow) and sit cross-legged or on their knees. Also, the stone on the top of the roof (center) is a bird-head effigy stone, looking up to the heavens. This is conducive with indigenous beliefs- when we pray we look up towards the sky, and the birds, especially the Eagle, are intermediaries between heaven and Earth, they carry our prayers to the Creator, they are the closest to heaven up in the sky. There are many First Nations tales that illustrate the interaction birds play between people and the Creator. There is also a Manitou stone to the left of the entrance of the structure. That is the stone that is standing up vertically. Manitou means "a spirit" so this stone would invite the friendly spirits to the site, or rather the spirits that were needed at that special place.

Although I know about many other significant sites in my area, and have even found some other things nobody knew about, this is my biggest "find" to date. I am stoked! Figured I would share. Education is good for all of us. It is good to think of where we come from, and where we live.

[SoCo KungFu]

Here is a pic of a lost site I stumbled onto ("found") the other month. It is a Native American stone shrine in Massachusetts. It is not located next to a trail, although the boulder it was worked into can be seen in a distance from a trail, but one has to walk up to it and go around it to tell what it is. It is on the side of a heavily-wooded hill (the "jungle" grew back) and to the other side is a swampy marsh/pond, and there is a housing development relatively nearby, but the swamp is between the site and the houses (thank god- better chance of preservation.) Here is the pic I took:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jPfLds2bxQ8/U5bUNak_dhI/AAAAAAAAXQw/FhWjbmk7_XM/s1600/0517141845-00.jpg

There are also nearby Native American rock piles associated with this site as well. The other week I led a hike to the site, which included the Town Historian Joanne, Dr. Curtiss Hoffmann, professor of anthropology and archeology at Bridgewater State University, and several members of an organization called NEARA (New England Antiquities Research Association.) The NEARA members told me that they were going to run an article on the site in their next journal and that a pic of the shrine is going to be on the cover. They also told me that a couple of structures identical to this exist in a nearby town, except they are in a destroyed state, and it is only due to landowner's accounts that any integrity/ history of the other structures has survived at all.

Dr. Curtiss Hoffmann and others determined (with their fancy phones and gadgets) that there is a winter solstice alignment at the site, which was probably taken in to consideration when the structure was built. Other things I noticed were that there is room enough for 1 person to enter the shrine (probably the local Pawwow) and sit cross-legged or on their knees. Also, the stone on the top of the roof (center) is a bird-head effigy stone, looking up to the heavens. This is conducive with indigenous beliefs- when we pray we look up towards the sky, and the birds, especially the Eagle, are intermediaries between heaven and Earth, they carry our prayers to the Creator, they are the closest to heaven up in the sky. There are many First Nations tales that illustrate the interaction birds play between people and the Creator. There is also a Manitou stone to the left of the entrance of the structure. That is the stone that is standing up vertically. Manitou means "a spirit" so this stone would invite the friendly spirits to the site, or rather the spirits that were needed at that special place.

Although I know about many other significant sites in my area, and have even found some other things nobody knew about, this is my biggest "find" to date. I am stoked! Figured I would share. Education is good for all of us. It is good to think of where we come from, and where we live.

That's pretty neat. Those finds are always nice. Down south where I'm from you can walk across 12000 year old stone tools/debris and not even notice it if you weren't looking (yes 12k years old (or at least found in 12k strata), I'll let other people look up the significance of that). Its unfortunate though that so many of these are on private property and thus, no one knows they're there. That and the problems it causes when...sensitive...things are found. You may or may not know of Allendale, SC's Topper site. This was one of the more important sites in the south for a while. It was on private, industrial property. Unfortunately, a couple years back human remains were found. I believe in another post here I mentioned this site and something I couldn't yet talk of. This was that something. What should have been a huge find, ended up sinking the entire site. Smithsonian got there necks involved and botched the operation. I don't think they notified proper authorities (but could be wrong on that) and long story short, the site is now shut down and off limits. At least a half dozen individuals working on their PhD research got screwed out of their study zone after years of work. The remains, I believe but could be wrong, were covered back up and left unstudied. An ex gf of mine was the one who initially uncovered the body and was freaked she f'd up. Wasn't a fun month, should have been one of the best. Research can be a ***** like that.

[GoldenBrain]

Ya, very cool man. It looks a bit small for somebody to sit in very comfortably so when I hear about or see places like this which are aligned with the winter or summer solstice I wonder if they were more like calendar sign post markers rather than that of a spiritual nature. Either way, still very cool.

[Syn7]

Cool little story.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dvQDNgYmKU

[GoldenBrain]

That was great! I liked the part at the end about the masking tape. :D

I really dislike looters, wether it be artifacts or somebodies property. As a youth I would happen upon things like arrow heads, pottery shards, and in NC civil war artifacts...etc., while out in the wilds of nature. After checking these cool pieces out I'd simply set them back down where I found them so that others could enjoy the moment as much as I did. When I grew up and became friends with some archaeological types I realized how important this practice was. For me, it was more about that stuff isn't mine no matter where I found it so why should I take it. For an archaeologist it seems to go much deeper. And for an archaeologist/anthropologist with a deep spiritual connection to say the Choctaw tribe it goes even deeper. One of my friends who heads the cultural dept. for the Choctaws often has to repatriate artifacts and bones when people accidentally dig them up. On tribal lands there are people on call 24/7 to monitor and investigate projects like road building, pipelines..etc., and when they find anything that resembles a bone or any type of artifact all work stops until it can be verified that it is or isn't part of some tribe from any time period. It's not like they shut the world down for long, but work will stop long enough to repatriate the bones or artifacts to another area approved by the tribe.

[MarathonTmatt]

That's pretty neat. Those finds are always nice. Down south where I'm from you can walk across 12000 year old stone tools/debris and not even notice it if you weren't looking (yes 12k years old (or at least found in 12k strata), I'll let other people look up the significance of that). Its unfortunate though that so many of these are on private property and thus, no one knows they're there. That and the problems it causes when...sensitive...things are found. You may or may not know of Allendale, SC's Topper site. This was one of the more important sites in the south for a while. It was on private, industrial property. Unfortunately, a couple years back human remains were found. I believe in another post here I mentioned this site and something I couldn't yet talk of. This was that something. What should have been a huge find, ended up sinking the entire site. Smithsonian got there necks involved and botched the operation. I don't think they notified proper authorities (but could be wrong on that) and long story short, the site is now shut down and off limits. At least a half dozen individuals working on their PhD research got screwed out of their study zone after years of work. The remains, I believe but could be wrong, were covered back up and left unstudied. An ex gf of mine was the one who initially uncovered the body and was freaked she f'd up. Wasn't a fun month, should have been one of the best. Research can be a ***** like that.

Hi,
Ouch, yeah- I can see how things could be botched up at the SC site. Also, up here in the north east, especially in the Connecticut River Valley are a lot of artifact deposits (knives, projectile points):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYuK1NT4P-4&feature=player_detailpage

[MarathonTmatt]

Ya, very cool man. It looks a bit small for somebody to sit in very comfortably so when I hear about or see places like this which are aligned with the winter or summer solstice I wonder if they were more like calendar sign post markers rather than that of a spiritual nature. Either way, still very cool.

Yes, I have thought about what you have said too. I think it did serve as a marker like you say, but that their cosmology (and thus spirituality) was also inter-connected with that too. It obviously would have been a special structure one way or another- as for somebody sitting in it- I guess we will never know for sure, due to the very harsh suppression of Native culture. Here in the Northeast, it was long thought that such structures simply did not exist as they did in other parts of the country. The remaining descendent communities themselves largely forgot about their ancestor's stone constructions (but not completely) until more recently, and now tribal preservation officers as well as archeologists like Dr. Hoffmann who have good relationships with them are taking an inventory of these sites. As for me I am more of an "amateur enthusiast" of mixed ancestry (Canada/ Mid-west) living in the New England area.
Some things I did notice though is that one of the stones on the roof is loose, and that top soil and leaf-litter would have built up on the ground over centuries, for instance we cannot see the true bottom of the entry-way or the ground inside the structure as it would have appeared hundreds of years ago.

[MarathonTmatt]

Here are more pics I took of another site. A lot of natural boulders that were incorporated with indigenous stonewall/ stone row building to create enclosures. This site is near a brook that is a tributary to a major river. Also at this site were many Native American style "cairns" which is an English word used to describe rock piles of various origins- a modern hiking cairn may distinguish a trail path, a modern boundry cairn may distinguish a property line and so forth.

The truth is, the word "cairn" isn't the right word to describe Native American stone mounds, heaps, etc., but that is the word researchers began using to describe them decades ago and the name stuck. What they really are is various effigys, monuments, markers, donation piles and "prayers in stone", etc. Notice the symmetry and different patterns in the pics below. Also most effigys are on boulder platforms, with bedrock underneath the surface vegetation. I only got a few pics of the larger site in general. Hoping people will enjoy:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4mB0DyjwOCA/U7_Q541IjbI/AAAAAAAAXb4/GDwpnXjq3CY/s1600/stonewallboulder1.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bPTylUw2N0o/U7_QfX_yigI/AAAAAAAAXa0/s55m4XNBh2A/s1600/0708141841-00.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FOVusZsWjHg/U7_QiCRznbI/AAAAAAAAXa8/iI-nkS98lEs/s1600/A6.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0DKgHOvpjaM/U7_QklpG0UI/AAAAAAAAXbE/EmUC_bGyQgg/s1600/B2Rombazoid.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Vl8fJnVHkFE/U7_QnE3x6gI/AAAAAAAAXbM/zVRyIHWXDkk/s1600/cairn1.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fVW9_SBWTrM/U7_QrOTo8hI/AAAAAAAAXbU/T5L3cNlqJgk/s1600/cairn2.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7IadxWp09SM/U7_QuO60P2I/AAAAAAAAXbk/1T6H3rEzWXk/s1600/cairn5front.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uJpY5eUxLLc/U7_QyVjmpEI/AAAAAAAAXbs/cCd9LfOh6Qs/s1600/effigy3.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZiI9xwmX218/U7_Qrb7sBaI/AAAAAAAAXbY/0BdnBha_Iac/s1600/cairn4.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7_Q8RtMbzgU/U7_Q54xOP_I/AAAAAAAAXb0/OsUu147AsxI/s1600/row-endingat-ledge.jpg

[MarathonTmatt]

I was hiking around a place called Echo Lake (in Massachusetts, west of Boston) last weekend. It is the head of the Charles River. The English named the river after one of their kings. The true name of the river in Algonquin is something like "Quennebaug," very similar to the naming of the Kennebec river in Maine, but in a different dialect.

Here are some pictures I took of some propped boulders, and some smaller "standing stones" which seemed to function as horizon markers. There were also some other features I noticed like a couple small petro-forms (some info on petro-forms here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroform) and some effigies (cairns) but for some reason I did not take pics of those.

Here are some of the pictures I took from Echo Lake:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Cm2qPCEdecA/U-sC3n78vEI/AAAAAAAAXhY/Hl-8GR-fYgs/s1600/echolakeprop7A.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Kc-yhkIIj8s/U-sC3C6XV_I/AAAAAAAAXhM/unSOjAvYr54/s1600/echolakeprop7B.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RKwYDcx_Uhg/U-sC0znKJAI/AAAAAAAAXgw/3dMTnsCtsCY/s1600/echolakeprop3.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-evx77Iqi9UE/U-sC1LQWasI/AAAAAAAAXgs/46l7zjkDnaE/s1600/echolakeprop4.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0xKOcJuCCX8/U-sC2AhUnSI/AAAAAAAAXhI/ommr5I_l0W8/s1600/echolakeprop6.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RUkPoU9jlXI/U-sC5ROu5HI/AAAAAAAAXhs/NJZ3IIzN9CY/s1600/echolakestandstone2.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EDVU-ddTBHE/U-sC6VlaWDI/AAAAAAAAXh0/6pedNAws1L0/s1600/echolakestandstone2A.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XhkAA_InUZQ/U-sC6udF02I/AAAAAAAAXh8/sOhm2_O2J9w/s1600/echolakestandstone4.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cXk1WTiGVIY/U-sC6qk7QFI/AAAAAAAAXh4/_JpRI9wj1uw/s1600/echolakestndstone1.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Cm2qPCEdecA/U-sC3n78vEI/AAAAAAAAXhY/Hl-8GR-fYgs/s1600/echolakeprop7A.jpg

[MarathonTmatt]

I went back to Echo Lake, MA. this weekend. I am surprised (well, not really, actually, but glad,) with what I found. These pictures are more mind-blowing than the last pics I posted from that area, this time I went deeper into the bush:

Here is a back-angle of the stone structure ("chamber/shrine") I found:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pfIhjwihL88/U_KEnSpsi1I/AAAAAAAAXis/2Y6mBEWEA5A/s1600/backofshrine.jpg

Here is a Petro-form (stone circle w/ an altar)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-72bpX9_J2_w/U_KEnaKZJTI/AAAAAAAAXik/ZDCmAb28Czc/s1600/echo-petro1.jpg

A second petro-form, the stone on top is marked out to represent I fish, or so I believe (you can see the eye socket, mouth & shape of stone)- Good luck fishing:D!:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-exZe5ntEPeo/U_KEnRAlhKI/AAAAAAAAXio/FSHjIsN0ykI/s1600/echo-petro2.jpg

Another standing-stone marker:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GPADPla-NOw/U_KEteP52YI/AAAAAAAAXjY/tdHMStS-KOk/s1600/echostndstone5.jpg

A marker on a nearby hill-top that seems to be pointing to the direction of the ancient Chamber:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8-w4LXdeHis/U_KEuIqAJLI/AAAAAAAAXjk/BYeZ6nrTwkY/s1600/echostonemarker.jpg

Entrance to the Stone-Structure ("Chamber"), Nice Slabbed-roof!:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-K851bHNE0D8/U_KEulvQtQI/AAAAAAAAXjw/JS1rOP91bkI/s1600/front-of-shrine2.jpg

The back-wall inside the structure (my finger got in way of left corner):
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-axHw7iXpDA8/U_KEuzPGuZI/AAAAAAAAXj0/mgACF7F2whw/s1600/insidebackwall.jpg

Another view of the outside-back:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-USrC5aisUTI/U_KEvqNcIqI/AAAAAAAAXj8/ctCvWPlPPlY/s1600/outside-back-shrine.jpg

A stone circle directly outside the structure:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TpFyycc_RVY/U_KEyRAIc9I/AAAAAAAAXkQ/xi4nm0itOII/s1600/petro-outside-shrine.jpg

I climbed on top to get these pics of the roof slabs:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EN6FNvvbCTo/U_KEy7mENAI/AAAAAAAAXk8/BI8MEmz4FCE/s1600/roofofshrine2.jpg

Close up of entry-way slabs (and you can see into the back):
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--0HF4w8as_4/U_KEzZqaZSI/AAAAAAAAXko/EtbluaezLUA/s1600/roofshrineslab.jpg

View of roof from inside:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-umADTrtG-7g/U_KEzuDaukI/AAAAAAAAXkY/kutWb6T_umI/s1600/roofslabsinsdeshrine.jpg

Another propped boulder nearby:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fA7m1121c68/U_KEwPaCTEI/AAAAAAAAXkI/_mdqZ07aXO8/s1600/echo-proppedboulder.jpg

Stone enclosure (stone circle) :
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-a3Ag-FN7LLo/U_KEo73XbnI/AAAAAAAAXiw/bmgzhl2ylWk/s1600/echo-stone-enclosure.jpg

A Drum-stone nearby to the Chamber. This rests on the boulder platform, and with one hand you can shake it like a see-saw, and it reverberates and shakes the ground, and you can hear it for miles (I have seen another drum stone at another site before):
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0Qkk-5gk8HA/U_KEqYVil3I/AAAAAAAAXi4/_JFWwYDdIt4/s1600/echodrumstn1.jpg

Another view of the drum-stone (perfectly perched):
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bb-RJsABfNo/U_KEsNkz3aI/AAAAAAAAXjM/v1LMrnJGd9A/s1600/echodrumstne2.jpg

Also some additional information about Echo Lake, Massachusetts from Wikipedia:

"Source of the Charles River. Hopkinton is the highest point in the region and is at the headwaters of three watersheds: the Charles, the Blackstone, and the "SuAsCo" (Sudbury, Assabet, and Concord) tributary of the Merrimack River."

[MarathonTmatt]

Here is a link to a well-known site called the Upton Chamber. The town of Upton is doing the right thing by preserving this site and more recently, putting it on the National Register. If only the other towns in the area would do the same with their sites, this stuff is all over the place. A lot of the time the town historians/ town government themselves don't have a clue what is on the land. In the 1600's, the founder of the state of Rhode Island, Roger Williams, wrote about these structures as being Native in origin. He said:

"Pesuponck; a hot house. This hot house is a kind of little cell or cave, six or eight feet over, round, made on the side of a hill, commonly by some rivulet or brook." (Williams [1643]1968:236)"

Unfortunatly most people today are ignorant of such structures. Here is a link about the sad statistics for preservation efforts in New England:

http://www.nativestones.com/preserve.htm "every year, more gets destroyed." It goes on to point out that only 1 Native stone construction in New England is on the register, contrasted to almost 500 historical churches of European-American origin.

Here is the Upton Chamber link:

http://www.stonestructures.org/html/upton-chamber.html

Note that sadly, the site was featured in a book called "The Ruins of Great Ireland in New England." :eek: That was in 1946, and historians still hadn't figured out that the Native people the first settlers encountered in the area were already remnant populations of a once greater society. Also European Americans liked to romanticize Native people as "primitive." Even today when I talk to some people they think Native people never built in stone in this area, and they will state this like an adamant fact because that is what they were told by some ignorant grade school teacher or something.

People still don't realize the great impact this culture had on the landscape. In fact to get a clue, see my above post, "A Return to Echo Lake" for it has some epic pictures of my exploring in that area. That area was definitely the site of a significant pre-historic village/ center.

[MarathonTmatt]

"Head-and-shoulders" stone bust in 3 different sizes.

1) Large (large effigy stone bust, the trees growing up around this monument have been mysteriously cleared away...):

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RDxOssCwZQA/VA42w9OLWTI/AAAAAAAAAIE/CgCkNWIagR4/s1600/nrthmill4.jpg


2) Medium, incorporated into a native wall:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UBDi18lfgmw/VA423mGSxGI/AAAAAAAAAIM/MU_p_Gf_BBE/s1600/Charles18.jpg

3) Small, as center-piece In a Stone Ring:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3CdK7DVCJtY/VBoo3AfaJKI/AAAAAAAAAdI/RbMiQmi8zTY/s1600/petro1.jpg

All pics taken by me.

[MarathonTmatt]

All I can say that this is somewhere in Massachusetts. Native Face in Stone on a hill-top, surrounded by a ceremonial cairn field:


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yMcu4yUeKvk/VDapwDuma3I/AAAAAAAAA-4/1WxPM97Je5E/s1600/face4.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0gtBGaOSTRA/VDap2cX3wmI/AAAAAAAAA_A/4iNiDsjvqms/s1600/face5.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yU5FVtikAAw/VDap7hARA_I/AAAAAAAAA_I/Rl0rCfunP5U/s1600/face7.jpg

Some of the other stone works:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_OShzq-Kl58/VDaqc-QaQGI/AAAAAAAAA_4/vJmLq8RRZoM/s1600/face16.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-L62TnyqRYRw/VDaqhlQW-cI/AAAAAAAABAA/eQ1zKfZtI3s/s1600/face17.jpg

The Balancing Rock(s) on a ledge:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jFmvB22iQ9Y/VDaXFJrWGHI/AAAAAAAAA9w/r8V-h4e1gio/s1600/barreprop5.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7xKeRcYHBlo/VDaW7WE9iJI/AAAAAAAAA9g/GtcRrjdfhoo/s1600/barreprop1.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YgQpP3dzlnE/VDaXcZfQN4I/AAAAAAAAA-I/oH7bdwH5Fsc/s1600/barreprop15.jpg

The stone inscriptions. Very nice craftsmanship:

The face:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iiyKA4y_yWo/VDaXVvnqkfI/AAAAAAAAA-A/Q14DrFvp4ao/s1600/barreprop17.jpg

Medicine Wheel- Circle w/ a cross (4 directions) and mark in the middle (the sun):

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9uku-PxrsbE/VDaXk0MygFI/AAAAAAAAA-Y/AZm0FaxYBng/s1600/barreprop10.jpg

Nice Standing Stones:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-26PpRXhXYrY/VDYKT5HVSNI/AAAAAAAAA9Q/t1lbLZVDyHk/s1600/princestanding2.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T6LsafKaR_s/VCQdiyGYGrI/AAAAAAAAAs4/k73lzGS9cfI/s1600/megunko88A.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-93i2oCEzZ78/VCLRlqHMhFI/AAAAAAAAAow/XiCyXNCrwug/s1600/upper7.jpg

A cave entrance I went into:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bzRrFshW4Go/VBGmvsG12rI/AAAAAAAAANw/JJTs9ylFI2w/s1600/cave1.jpg

And this one:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vIinUSBFado/VBmYEfDsRnI/AAAAAAAAAcI/-cuQU7N8bek/s1600/serp6.jpg

Here I am hanging out with my friend:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ACCjRHACw3I/VDaqBPPTlMI/AAAAAAAAA_Q/ErQ1I7AttRc/s1600/face8.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pazOu9TR5wo/VDaqFiFXczI/AAAAAAAAA_Y/kmu0AHteNtM/s1600/face9.jpg

[MarathonTmatt]

On a wooded knoll-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-beuvK281E7U/VDNcoIyN3DI/AAAAAAAAA3s/raAwCi6aqZM/s1600/fairprop5.jpg

Propped onto a boulder platform-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VrQ8tIX4fSM/VBL_FynbN1I/AAAAAAAAAQQ/1Dd0-O2Gpvw/s1600/Wilson12.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S97mPG0Ze5o/VBL_J95qXmI/AAAAAAAAAQY/vCmSipOB3fA/s1600/Wilson12A.jpg

Smaller effigy protecting the nest-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5nZzS5AW7vM/VBL_NmyfOwI/AAAAAAAAAQg/l0mOox2_1tg/s1600/Wilson13.jpg

U-Shaped Stone Ring "Prayer Seat"-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-v0KkBeQsZ9g/VBL-vT_prdI/AAAAAAAAAPw/oDMazdtXITg/s1600/Wilson18.jpg

A couple of the pics I posted here last night-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yMcu4yUeKvk/VDapwDuma3I/AAAAAAAAA-4/1WxPM97Je5E/s1600/face4.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jFmvB22iQ9Y/VDaXFJrWGHI/AAAAAAAAA9w/r8V-h4e1gio/s1600/barreprop5.jpg

The style of stone effigy work in this region is abstract and minimal on purpose, as if trying to be non-invasive while modifying the landscape. People made just enough markings and cuts in the stone to abstractly represent a deity such as a bird. These monuments would be "popped" to life by decorating stone gods and the such with red ochre and perishable plant-based paints that have worn off with time- a lot of these structures probably go back to "Early Archaic" period times aka "the Red Paint People" (maritime archaic culture) especially the network of chambers (ie shrines) accessible from the water-ways through the region. And of course, Native religion was suppressed and persecuted in colonial times up through the present day, also whole villages perished from disease, war and slavery, and most survivors were either re-located or assimilated to the point that these stone-works were almost entirely forgotten about despite the fact there are records of such structures by colonists themselves. More of these sites get destroyed each year and the State Historic Comissions have lied to people about these structures for generations

[mickey]

Greetings MarathonTmatt

It took a WHILE to see the bird!

With the u shaped ring: Did you notice how the stones appear to extend from and return back to the dark stone at the top. as if sitting at that top position was not just for prayer but for the receiving of assistance, answers, even knowledge; a real connection to the Ancestors and the Cosmos. There is also a yin and yang configuration going on there, with the darker half unexpressed, with the exception of the dark stone at the top; it's polar counterpart being the large white stone at the far-thest part of the loop.

Just a couple of observations,

mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings MarathonTmatt

It took a WHILE to see the bird!

With the u shaped ring: Did you notice how the stones appear to extend from and return back to the dark stone at the top. as if sitting at that top position was not just for prayer but for the receiving of assistance, answers, even knowledge; a real connection to the Ancestors and the Cosmos. There is also a yin and yang configuration going on there, with the darker half unexpressed, with the exception of the dark stone at the top; it's polar counterpart being the large white stone at the far-thest part of the loop.

Just a couple of observations,

mickey

Very good observations! The dark stone at the top was definitley a focus point in the configuration and is also propped up (small standing stone.) As a matter of fact you could analyze the shape of this top standing stone and say it is "receptive" like this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jGi6JUJnI2g/VCLRcIsrZGI/AAAAAAAAAoo/_uHA5c-Hcao/s1600/Marks2.jpg

Different types of stones as well as shapes and sizes were all taken into consideration with the building of all these structures, including the first post I made here of the shrine, and no 2 are alike which makes it fascinating. I know in other cultures around the world such as the Roman Empire that at one time or another they started producing same-size bricks for instance to make everything uniform. Although there are bountiful production sites in the ancient America's including my region they never made things uniformly the same which I guess is another classification for saying its indigenous.

Also with the U-Shape structure it is along a hill-side. It is basically at the base of a small knoll that is the highest point in that immediate area. Places where earth, sky and water meet, especially water flowing in 2 or more directions (such as the Echo Lake site I posted- headwaters of the Charles, Blackstone & Sudbury rivers) was important. Like you were getting at spirits were important, the cosmos, ancestors, all those elements. Here is another distinct U-Shape stone ring/ prayer seat at another site also by a hill-side:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BU8rIrhvRM8/VBcLKXnTOKI/AAAAAAAAAX8/f-PNkmcy_jE/s1600/zain16.jpg

And a nearby cairn:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9tmFwxtZp04/VBcLbVLjLjI/AAAAAAAAAYU/gNRKND1KNds/s1600/zain25.jpg

As for the birds- yeah, I wish I could get better pictures of those. It is more apparent when looking at the sites in real life, although one still needs some schooling the way I did to start seeing how these sites turn up everywhere/ the different features. Here are some more smaller birds propped onto boulder platforms only about 20 yards apart:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YDRPltJkvrg/VDx67BDKT1I/AAAAAAAABEw/oIN_7g3m2_U/s1600/wonder28A.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JqXoMwE6Db8/VDx7BIQUDXI/AAAAAAAABE4/8UDKZ7qZdEk/s1600/wonder16.jpg

Thanks for taking an interest! I will post more here and there- thank you for realizing that these structures are more than just piles of stones!

[mickey]

Hi,

Thank you for sharing those photos. They are indeed amazing. It seems that they are making themselves and their purpose known.


mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

First are these pics I took of a stone Solar Observatory. This was near an Earthen Mound site, also. Seen from one side, the observatory is a turtle effigy, from the other side, a stone bird. It also functions as an enclosure. The site is over-looking, earth, sky and water:

the "turtle" side:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9htMi0ao-GE/VGS53VGt0zI/AAAAAAAAB84/QJauMsRaEs0/s1600/mars36E.jpg

over-looking the water:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5fLUXtENX2Y/VGS57s8t1RI/AAAAAAAAB9A/ekbXWHsLwh0/s1600/mars35.jpg

the horizon point (the turtle's/bird's beak):

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-M689uAaA20g/VGS6QgfsiLI/AAAAAAAAB9g/jYdtuthVvsM/s1600/mars36A.jpg

from the other side, we see this structure is an enclosure and also a bird effigy (a dual bird/ turtle effigy):

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WbU6pi9CER0/VGS6WXfxRLI/AAAAAAAAB9o/pNWvb1EiruI/s1600/mars36.jpg

A nearby stone calander marker:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N6DBRROGsDQ/VGS6gZrY53I/AAAAAAAAB9w/KB6UBFtH5RE/s1600/mars44A.jpg

A Native stone wall ruins:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Yg62R1FsaEc/VGSz1FTV7YI/AAAAAAAAB7o/bgxO1yi0tmE/s1600/mars20K.jpg

Terraced:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WYdBkdB5V3E/VGS0Z50Or4I/AAAAAAAAB8Y/QgZ5530yi-c/s1600/mars20B.jpg

Propped boulder in a native wall:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0-A478xPLCE/VGYcf29joaI/AAAAAAAAB_M/owWMiO5ePYQ/s1600/col4.jpg

From another angle (a hiking buddy got in the pic but hey- just shows the scale of the stone-work):

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Nybjd6MDybU/VGYcj99E7WI/AAAAAAAAB_U/TK1jMN7fRZY/s1600/col3.jpg

That's definitely enough pics for one post. Enjoy!

[MarathonTmatt]

Keep in mind these are in a ruinous state. These are just the "skeletal" remains. First, a Stone God effigy of a Bird. First pic seen from a profile, worked out from a boulder. If you can't see it at first tilt your head & stare for a second. You saw it here first:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AfqT8_V5Tq0/VJbJTpyNoiI/AAAAAAAAC7k/HjSLJTWxDBM/s1600/ada25.jpg

From head-on:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4YDtSrPRmaI/VJbJZCZJHaI/AAAAAAAAC7s/Y2__7_8c32k/s1600/ada25B.jpg

Stone mound on a ledge:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-el8Miy6ttfs/VJWOLDby09I/AAAAAAAAC2Y/aDcGyWB32tw/s1600/ada20A.jpg

An enclosure:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NyiCTNigE28/VJQ8spxCkRI/AAAAAAAAC1A/qxdhempd4jc/s1600/ada5V.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Gny9YP802Dw/VJQ810fbyzI/AAAAAAAAC1Q/wHKb-ZGrb-0/s1600/ada5VD.jpg

Propped Boulder (propped off of the ground) working with the sun's energy:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GPn11drZZO4/VJQ9DsLCtJI/AAAAAAAAC1o/m9cTPYJ7XPQ/s1600/ada5Z.jpg

Stone mound on the hillside:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-s3c6LjRrixQ/VJQ74JCyPjI/AAAAAAAAC0k/jVzgMApZeB0/s1600/ada5YA.jpg

Stone cairn w/ turtle effigy incorporated into design:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nWv-K36at7Q/VJQ5kIxBTEI/AAAAAAAACyM/S-3p1E4rOzE/s1600/ada5A.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vFBRm3eOSwI/VJQ5n8A3HvI/AAAAAAAACyU/vtmfJ5T258U/s1600/ada5.jpg

Worked-out boulder serving as a Standing Stone horizon marker:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PPNxUlWySaU/VJBLTUJyjGI/AAAAAAAACss/LuyctvFaoJU/s1600/ada1U.jpg

Another boulder propped and worked-out into position to serve as a horizon marker:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IyrrjAqER-o/VJBLwu08TcI/AAAAAAAACtU/3LCwK5SAs3k/s1600/gia2GA.jpg

Serpent Wall w/ headstone terminating on a ledge:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YjomE-0aArI/VJBL3-HqXPI/AAAAAAAACtc/9BtIBxgNNsQ/s1600/gia3F.jpg

An obelisk-like Standing Stone:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bu5NFe_6BGo/VI7xHrg8GcI/AAAAAAAACrc/GQASo4ZMV2s/s1600/ada8A.jpg

From this angle the Standing Stone has been marked out (white line running down):

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ji6H1dsBwk0/VI7xMlY-NWI/AAAAAAAACrk/0r1dVkvo5U8/s1600/ada8B.jpg

Worked-out/ chipped stone placed along a wall to refelct and amplify the sun's energy:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-n94giZIs5fQ/VJdQh712tbI/AAAAAAAAC9Q/gUsOe5yw8II/s1600/ada14B.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zFEsf2z7gB0/VJdPUMsMGiI/AAAAAAAAC88/pNYVRcKrsnA/s1600/ada14C.jpg

Refelcting the sun's light:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vFuyUqPiZXc/VJBMBfjkNTI/AAAAAAAACts/3cjxys0sI2U/s1600/gia3GA.jpg

Stone Ring:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-awJE9pK2cas/VJbE8UGNsYI/AAAAAAAAC6o/TgoTcupxXTM/s1600/ada10E.jpg

[MarathonTmatt]

This one just makes sense. The Northern Pike Fish in the NorthEast region was no doubt a delicious food that sustained the people in pre-colonial times. Below are some stone pike fish effigies, possibly thousands of years old, compared to some more recent photos of people's pike fish catches for comparison.

This pike fish effigy is part of a larger Algonquian stone wall that meanders through a bedrock ledge. The stone on the far right is the head-stone of the pike fish:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XWOwhDCll8w/VL8jeU2EVkI/AAAAAAAAD8I/b8dzjV5Stvg/s1600/rte19D.jpg

Now compare that above pic to this recent picture of some random person's recent pike fish catch:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9aCuCYe2UCQ/VL8jjlVborI/AAAAAAAAD8Q/zsuQKiC5ues/s1600/pike2.jpg

This next pic is of a stone cairn with what looks like a pike fish motiff. This cairn was probably used to make offereings before or after a catch:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NrGhThX-3kg/VL8jNbPgUlI/AAAAAAAAD74/PUGC_THl1O4/s1600/rte38.jpg

Compare the above picture to this recent picture of a random person's pike fish catch. The source of the pic for the recent catch is a 45 minute drive away from the site of the stone cairn:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2KXqOXByteE/VL8jTGlJZ7I/AAAAAAAAD8A/MLYYY1Ml9ek/s1600/pike1.jpg

Related to these pike fish stoneworks is this other stone altar, in a ruinous and neglected state, also with a fish motiff:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZPaVzcuBehM/VL8jFNyuO3I/AAAAAAAAD7w/9g2rsRQaXHI/s1600/ech5.jpg

[MarathonTmatt]

The remains of a Serpent Wall- notice the head stone-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GEUuwU7iMf8/VOKSAP7al7I/AAAAAAAAEak/Tw3TSP6GQow/s1600/rte18C.jpg

You can notice the slit worked out in the boulder for the eyes, mouth, etc., and also that the boulder itself looks like the head of a snake. A friend played around with my picture & using "paint" application drew over the stonework, popping it back to life. He imagined something like this-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NNwpDhqA9yk/VOKR5QltevI/AAAAAAAAEac/oMA-0My8PhY/s1600/serp3.jpg

The above pic actually depicts the Great Horned Serpent, a revered deity throughout Native North America. The wall pics up a few yards away. Facing the head of the serpent, there is a propped boulder, and between the propped boulder and other rock is this wedged egg-shaped stone:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eIk1R7CWMRs/VOKS0k0XtDI/AAAAAAAAEas/8_O9CakhU20/s1600/rte18JA.jpg

Also this circular petro-form underneath the propped boulder-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XMc-UBRK32M/VOKTGDPV0sI/AAAAAAAAEa8/yqbLg1tTia8/s1600/rte18F.jpg

A stone cairn on a nearby hillside-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V6wxMicRGag/VOKTVAmfWXI/AAAAAAAAEbM/2a2Hi3kcbVk/s1600/rte17D.jpg

After seeing this site (in the NorthEast) it reminded me of the Ohio Serpent mound, which is a massive EarthWorks site-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KpJhIvUsl7s/VOKTOCwLleI/AAAAAAAAEbE/k1dMSp5pvM0/s1600/serp1.jpg

As you can see the Earthworks site in Ohio and the Stone Works site (New England) have the same exact motiff. In both cases by the serpent's head is an egg-shaped circle, which travels off to the horizon.

[mickey]

Greetings MarathonTmatt,

If you take another look at the Ohio drawing you will see that the Serpent's mouth is actually wide open and is about to swallow the "egg", suggesting some type of wormhole action for the Universe (well, you know how I catch things). The Serpent's eye is that disconnected part on the top side.

mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings MarathonTmatt,

If you take another look at the Ohio drawing you will see that the Serpent's mouth is actually wide open and is about to swallow the "egg", suggesting some type of wormhole action for the Universe (well, you know how I catch things). The Serpent's eye is that disconnected part on the top side.

mickey

hi mickey-

Thanks for the input- I hadn't noticed the eye before, but once I noticed what you were referring to it became obvious.

Also about the New England site- there is a small brook that meanders alongside the Serpent Wall and the circular "egg-shaped" wedged stone, feeding into a swamp. Above the swamp is the hillside with the stone cairn. There are other stone cairns up there too, but the cairn in the picture (in a ruinous state, but still there at least) is the one most significantly lining up and adjacent to the Serpent Wall/ Egg-Wedged site. The wedged egg-shaped stone really attracted my attention when I looked at it, and seemed to be a focus point. Looking at the wedged stone there is a horizon point above the swamp and is in line with the hill.

I went back to the Stone Shrine site with the winter solstice alignment (the 1st post on thread) and observed the early morning sunrise around the time of the solstice- when the sun came over the hill it was perfectly lined up with and illuminated the shrine. I noticed what was probably the old entry-way to the site, and three boulders that lined up sort of like an Orion's Belt symbolism. If this is the case as I suspect, than that makes the site more significant than just a winter solstice observation- that whole site could be what are the remains of a sophisticated solar observatory.

[MarathonTmatt]

Turtle Effigy-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rX05yMCxVVo/VEJ8M__MvjI/AAAAAAAABLE/zWNHhz3uNVc/s1600/495m15.jpg

Remains of Propped Boulder Worked Out Into A Turtle Effigy- On the Other Side of this is an underground room-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Or4UnamamJQ/VBzsDJMKvCI/AAAAAAAAAi0/SF0YscLP0eQ/s1600/goat2.jpg

Pre-colonial Stone Wall fortification On a Ledge-top-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sVxGmzCWcx4/VBL__z3ETcI/AAAAAAAAARg/a3l-XJt8r9E/s1600/Wilson50.jpg

Ledge-Wall Pic 2-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-roDss3UD6t8/VBL-2pk6koI/AAAAAAAAAP4/RaVwwZX_fLc/s1600/Wilson15A.jpg

Altar-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jlgW-tKy5tM/VBL-_xvAXCI/AAAAAAAAAQI/rG72UPbaJJI/s1600/Wilson14.jpg

Bird Manitou Placed On a Pillar-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VrQ8tIX4fSM/VBL_FynbN1I/AAAAAAAAAQQ/1Dd0-O2Gpvw/s1600/Wilson12.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S97mPG0Ze5o/VBL_J95qXmI/AAAAAAAAAQY/vCmSipOB3fA/s1600/Wilson12A.jpg

More pre-colonial Wall-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q8j7ruahU9s/VCF-cIgBxXI/AAAAAAAAAnA/uNv0jnIRS4M/s1600/Shadow3.jpg

A Propped Boulder-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-B3jPr-NQT0c/VCF-pwkxvsI/AAAAAAAAAnY/e39262oSzV4/s1600/Shadow10.jpg

Another "U" Shape-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gR0_qSBzOfM/VCF-9mw43DI/AAAAAAAAAn4/Q9RgQ3jfFak/s1600/Shadow16.jpg

[MarathonTmatt]

The remains of the pre-colonial Chamber. This Chamber is built into a hillside over-looking the Quinebaug River. The Standing Stones are located on the roof top-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zfEoQZXnBvw/VHCjyq5E0TI/AAAAAAAACHI/r0Or3XgSkOE/s1600/cha1E.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oqkaAuooni8/VHCjmu-G3jI/AAAAAAAACG4/KAzx2rCLKCU/s1600/cha1C.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Evm0elOaQaQ/VHCj3GpM1cI/AAAAAAAACHQ/PuNGMN-fAOw/s1600/cha1.jpg

Inside (note how the structure was not only built into a hill, but around a boulder with the smaller stones dressed around the boulder)-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1WC31_ti1TU/VHCj9Zw1mwI/AAAAAAAACHY/3sMonNkrzYM/s1600/cha2.jpg

The roof slabs from inside-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_HC-0fEIhu4/VHCkBKrYbpI/AAAAAAAACHg/U6I8BQfVkxs/s1600/cha2B.jpg

Standing Stones On the Roof, Over-looking the River-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-a8v47z0XDDg/VHCkNaxXPNI/AAAAAAAACH4/0yHAoOTUpvU/s1600/cha4B.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pAdkJOaiDfM/VHCkdXq_YDI/AAAAAAAACIY/7Ns9y2Jk-Ps/s1600/cha5A.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TwQmRyq9vX8/VHCkgiZIjoI/AAAAAAAACIg/vwb04B_snVw/s1600/cha6.jpg

Nearby Cairn Effigies & Stone Works of a grand scale On a Hillside-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Bhza8909rzQ/VKgM3d5AWdI/AAAAAAAADXQ/nNfd6QBiv_o/s1600/boat12A.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3lMFMoh5jS8/VKgM6WVU7oI/AAAAAAAADXY/Ea9Jz8DrumU/s1600/boat13C.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-i5ta_eoYvdE/VKgNBm06g1I/AAAAAAAADXo/vDm7g-0r2po/s1600/boat15.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-evwe1rB5IFc/VKgNDyFslSI/AAAAAAAADXw/tIG45iSpA-Y/s1600/boat15A.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-25hR2IDhcHc/VKgNJuoptbI/AAAAAAAADYA/Ikve5j3Xh14/s1600/boat17.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1usBZuWJstQ/VKgNTjuWiTI/AAAAAAAADYY/tplRnpJhldY/s1600/boat17F.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oy8nIxZVDbc/VKgNXAE2HrI/AAAAAAAADYg/_Nx0yYUWJGQ/s1600/boat18.jpg

Stone row into boulder-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m0ABGVaSFhY/VKgNdV4P8EI/AAAAAAAADYw/pRn7kBWACjg/s1600/boat20.jpg

The remains of an elaborate structure/ enclosure (probably incorporated wooden poles, etc.)-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-957EbpURTnA/VKgNkK7WeJI/AAAAAAAADZA/iotYh6fo4q8/s1600/boat30A.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--Zr5vg30uhs/VKgLYesoOpI/AAAAAAAADW8/5HpSHc3NOI4/s1600/boat28.jpg

[MarathonTmatt]

well-balanced turtle effigy-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sTtDEb8CsYU/VQrVAd6F88I/AAAAAAAAE44/E2T6C2WvXbE/s1600/don16A.jpg

[mickey]

Greetings MarathonTmatt,

I just found this site this morning and thought it might be of interest to you:

http://www.ancientamerican.com/aa/

And if any of the info happens to be a little off, the ancestors can make the corrections. You know what I mean. :)


mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings MarathonTmatt,

I just found this site this morning and thought it might be of interest to you:

http://www.ancientamerican.com/aa/

And if any of the info happens to be a little off, the ancestors can make the corrections. You know what I mean. :)


mickey

Thank you, Mickey. I have seen that magazine on the newstand before. They certainly do seem to have some interesting, valuable and thought- provoking articles. The only problem I see with this mag, as I believe you already know, is that the contributers are pretty much all white and seem to be writing for a white audience. However, there is still valuable information presented in their publications. These people alot of times are diffusionists trying to give credit to structures, such as chambers, to ancient celtic/ phoenician peoples. They do this without doing the proper research into Native mythology, cosmology, oral traditions and research and applying that to the stone structures, as I do. For instance, in the Mik'Maq creation story (who are along the eastern seaboard) the first beasts and human-like creatures were created by Gloskabe, or Glooscap (a mighty deity), out of clay. This mirrors the middle-eastern (sumerian, early hebrew etc.) traditions of creating the first humans out of clay- but the thing is, which came first. And it goes to show that the Native traditions are just as alive and rich as other parts of the world thought to be more sophisticated.

It is true that some structures in the New England / NorthEast area bear a resemblence to passage-chambers like the ones in Newgrange, Ireland. But the Irish legends themselves say that the builders of their mega-liths (stone structures) were a dark-skinned race from the west. In the NorthEast US and Canada, there is what academics call the "maritime archaic" people, aka the "Red Paint People" (Native ancestors). They were circum-navigating along the Northern Latitude lines of the NorthEast as far back as 11,500 years ago, and this is acknowledged by mainstream scholars. In Vermont, they found a fluted-point arrow-head that was 11,000 years old which was made from Rhama chert material, and the only place in the world that Rhama chert can be sourced from is Iceland. We know that there was trade from places like Florida all the way up to the NorthEast, and the Taino people of the Caribean even had permanent pre-colonial settlements in areas such as Tennessee, but now we know that people from the North East were going as far as Iceland 11,000 years ago to get production materials for tool/ weapon making. Stone effigies have also been found in Red Paint graves that are game-fish that are miles out to sea. They erected many Standing Stones as navigational devices.

The Eastern United States has most of the water, and largest water-way systems, and the truth is the pre-colonial population was denser east of the Missisippi River. Because colonial expansion ended in the West at a later date, people are left with the Hollywood stereo-type of an Plains Indian with what they think of as native, and that the east as a virgin wilderness. Also, beyond 5,000 years ago, the water levels of the Atlantic ocean were much lower than they are today. Many islands, such as Martha's Vineyard off the coast of Massachusetts, used to be part of the main-land, and also places like Long Island in New York. What should astound anyone, though, is the sea-farring skills of these native ancestors 11,000 + years ago. One thing I noticed is that a lot of pre-colonial stone walls I explore (which spiral and meander through ledges, edges of swamp, etc.) seem to be retaining water in, and can withstand earthquakes. As if they were built with the prior knowledge of previous cataclysms.

I would recomend the book "Manitou" by James Mavor and Byron Dix to anyone. They were open-minded scientists and did a lot of work with New England sites in the 1970's/ 80's, mapping out the cosmology of sites and doing a lot of archeo-astronomy work, finding out how sites relate to star constelations and solar observatory. They also did a good job of showing Native American connections to the sites. Back to Ancient American magazine. They have alot of valuable stuff, but they always tend to put a white twist to it. I am not totally discounting this, though. Ancient Celtic people apparantly had advanced seafaring knowledge and ship-building skills. When Julius Caesar invaded the British Isles in the 2nd century, he targeted the priest class and anyone with the knowledge of how to build ships. Their ships were more advanced and sea-worthy than the ships that Columbus and Pilgrims sailed at much later dates. It is possible some Celtic people made it to the America's. However, in America there was a council fire always lit by the pawwows on every hill-top, which could be seen miles out to sea- the whole eastern seaboard was lit. If these refuge Celtic people came in peace they probably married in to native cultures. Also, there is the possibility of sunken land masses in the Atlantic Ocean. For instance, Gaelic and Irish Ogham inscriptions does bear some resemblence to some of the Algonquin language and Algonquin stone inscriptions, thus there is confusion with white people who do not know the tradition of Algonquin stone-marking. If there is a common origin, I would say it is possibly due to the sunken land masses along the Atlantic water-ways, before 12,000 years ago, when communication on both sides of the Atlantic would have been easier.

Here are some important video links for anyone to watch- the first is about the 7 Fires Prophecy, an important Native prophecy-

https://youtu.be/STVfqA0KUM0

From the "Hidden Landscapes" series. "Ice Age Navigators" short-

https://youtu.be/rpXGVOu9Bkk

https://youtu.be/c7ET5LIhkx8

Some Mormon guy quoting Vine Deloria Jr. (Sioux scholar/ activist). "They Came from The East" (gee, thats what my grandfather also said, and his parent's before him)-

https://youtu.be/pXDjaivinbQ

dang, how did i type so much, lol.

[MarathonTmatt]

Here are links to a resourceful website, archaelogist Jack Dempsey.

Here is the time-line of the north-east notes. Talks about: bering strait theory in question. "early pioneer" sites such as Meadowceaft in Pensylvania are 16,000 yrs. old. How the northeast landscape was different than it is today before the Wisconsin glacier. water levels rose 6 ft/ year, people had to move more inland. large sunken landmasses along the coastal areas, even miles out into the Atlantic. Red Paint people could have been land/ island hopping along now sunken islands/ land masses in the Atlantic to safer places in-land (along the water-ways). Ancient "Red Paint" (Native) People known to build in stone, such as stone houses. Known for making very advanced sophisticated effigies and tools. Erected standing stones for navigation. Domesticated the "Carolina" dog, a relative of the Australian Dingo. Shows how many land-masses sunk-

http://www.ancientlights.org/tl1.html

Stoneworks, corn & calanders (shows sophisticated artifacts, knowledge of astronomy)-

http://www.ancientlights.org/stoneworks.html

[mickey]

Greetings,

Thank you for the information, MarathonTmatt

What you shared about rising waters rang a bell. Back in 2008, I shared with a classmate of mine that Atlantis might well be here and that rising waters could make a distant land mass appear to sink.

It seems that a blanket has been thrown about ancient peoples and their connections "elsewhere". If I could pick up on these things without trying, I know I am not the only one.


mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings,

Thank you for the information, MarathonTmatt

What you shared about rising waters rang a bell. Back in 2008, I shared with a classmate of mine that Atlantis might well be here and that rising waters could make a distant land mass appear to sink.

It seems that a blanket has been thrown about ancient peoples and their connections "elsewhere". If I could pick up on these things without trying, I know I am not the only one.


mickey

Thanks, mickey. I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds all of these understandings, info, research, etc. valuable. Just sharing some of what I know. More people def. need to learn to turn on their intuitive thinking. I would say there is def. a blanket thrown over all of this research. But one can find pieces here, there, a bit over yonder and fit them together for a better understanding. I am lucky so far that I am actively doing the foot-work to find some of these places, and can bring the evidence right to the table, as well as things like the links and sources I provided, whether its from Native oral traditions/ insistence or the work of archaelogists.

[boxerbilly]

Thanks for the links Tmatt. Thanks.

[JamesC]

Thanks for the pictures!

There's so much mystery around this stuff. Way cool.

[MarathonTmatt]

--Thanks guys. Stay tuned for more pictures of sites--

[boxerbilly]

This is fascinating stuff. I recall reading something years ago that they found Viking artifacts as far into America as Minnesota I believe. I am unclear of that time period. These links you offer suggest even further back. I came to the conclusion 20 years ago that the Mexicans have to have Asian blood lines The Native Indians. Having spent time in Mexico one can see a purer Mexican from time to time but they all have what seems to be Asian characteristic. Where as the Mohawk display much more Caucasian characteristics. The Cherokee even more so but they potentially had much further mixing more recently as well so it becomes hard to establish when.

Thanks.

[boxerbilly]

I just recalled reading something on the net maybe 5 years back. Someone or someone made a connection that Africans may also have visited the Americas. Are the Apache the tribe who's skin is very dark and they have a tendency to have curly hair? The Seminole as well have African blood but I think most if not all was from very recent intermixing. Around the time of the Civil War. And I do not think it is with in the entire tribe. I know this from looking into the Seminole tribe to get a closer connection to my grandmother.

[boxerbilly]

Does the chance exist the stonework you photographed be at least partially Viking?

http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/society/text/other_artifacts.htm

[MarathonTmatt]

This is fascinating stuff. I recall reading something years ago that they found Viking artifacts as far into America as Minnesota I believe. I am unclear of that time period. These links you offer suggest even further back. I came to the conclusion 20 years ago that the Mexicans have to have Asian blood lines The Native Indians. Having spent time in Mexico one can see a purer Mexican from time to time but they all have what seems to be Asian characteristic. Where as the Mohawk display much more Caucasian characteristics. The Cherokee even more so but they potentially had much further mixing more recently as well so it becomes hard to establish when.

Thanks.

Well. Just some facts. In NorthEast North America, New England is same latitude as the British Isles such as Ireland, just on different sides of the Atlantic. Getting further up into Canada it is the same latitude lines as Scandinavia. Interestingly, in both Algonquin and Scandinavian mythology, most legends and tales of the respective culture has it's identical counter-part in the other. Also, there are standing stones with inscriptions in Scandinavia, both Bronze Age and pre-Bronze Age, that have been de-coded as navigational directions to North America. The Red Paint People who I mentioned, who were Native North Americans, have their "cultural" (but not necessarily genetic, by-and-large,) counter-part, in Scandinavia, The Red Ochre People, but of course academics are hesitant to connect the dots. Now, if they are finding 11,000 year old arrowheads in Vermont that were produced using material from Iceland, than of course ancient North American and Scandinavian people were trading with each other, and probably inter-marrying. I can imagine, with the facts and evidence we now have, Native people marrying Scandinavian people and vice versa, many thousands of years ago, but I think these two cultures influenced each other more culturally than genetically although I'm sure there were exceptions. This means that the Viking settlement of Newfoundland is really just the last chapter of the story, but academics want people to believe like it is the only chapter of the story, period. Also there are some stone structures and related ritual that are similar to stone structures, and ritual around these stone structures, that are found among the Sami people of the far north Scandinavia/ Russia. (Sapmiland, Lappland). The Sami are a race of dark-skinned (with heavy mixing in colonial-modern times) people seemingly related to Siberian and Inuit cultures.

The other year at a Pow-Wow I was invited to the Mohawk reservation in upstate NY, anytime I feel like it, by an elder who I had spent some time with, getting to know. I have yet to go, as life will have it, but he said that everybody there is a full-blooded Mohawk, even the ones with blue eyes (this being a genetic trait shared by some indigenous people before colonial times.)

Now, this is very important- alot of white researchers would look at these cultural links, take a big fat poop on the floor and declare, "this is evidence of a pre-colonial Scandinavian or Celtic presence in the America's", or that these Celtic/ Scandinavian cultures must have in some way influenced Native people. But this isn't necessarily the case. Algonquin people could have first influenced these other cultures. In fact, this sounds like a likely case. For instance, the Irish legends say that the builders of their stone structures, such as the passage chamber of Newgrange, was built by a dark skinned race from the West. Surely the Celtic people who had this in their history knew what they were talking about, while an academic would dismiss this legend as the fancy of a primitive people making up stories around the campfire, which is funny, because it is the academics who have behaved childish in this case.

Also indigenous people in America, in some cases are still practising the old ways- preserving oral traditions, etc. It's funny, because in Egypt, the really old stone structures such as pyramid-shaped stone mounds, are stacked in the same style and way as in Northeastern North America. Sometimes newer pyramids (the style as most people are familiar with in Egypt) were built over the older Egyptian stone mounds (and chambers). I am not outright suggesting a cultural connection here, but rather giving a time-line reference indicating that when you go back far enough a similar stone building style was employed. Similarly, the pyramids of the Yucatan, even the Missisipian culture (ie Cahokia) are very grand in scale. This is due because all of these places are located in more temperate zones, which would naturally give rise to higher population densities and stone/earth-work building. The American NorthEast, by contrast is a colder climate. But- the science and understanding of astrology is still present as well as the stone building tradition. In fact, perhaps astrology could have played a more important role in the NorthEast because of shorter planting and harvesting seasons.

Lastly, when you mentioned an Asian/ Mexican cultural link. Well, I am not denying the cultural link. But just think about it- by saying that there was an Asian influence in Mexico/ the Yucatan you are marginalizing the Native culture. Who is to say that it isn't the other way around and that ancestors of Aztecs/ Mayans/ etc. didn't influence Asian culture in some way. Maybe Native American people are the older, more ancient genetic "parent stock" of most Asian people, which is why the indigenous American cultures were destroyed far worse by colonists than places in Asia. It's also reasonable that black people are yet genetically older, and were around most places on Earth in ancient times, as you suggest evidence for in your next post you made.

[MarathonTmatt]

I just recalled reading something on the net maybe 5 years back. Someone or someone made a connection that Africans may also have visited the Americas. Are the Apache the tribe who's skin is very dark and they have a tendency to have curly hair? The Seminole as well have African blood but I think most if not all was from very recent intermixing. Around the time of the Civil War. And I do not think it is with in the entire tribe. I know this from looking into the Seminole tribe to get a closer connection to my grandmother.

Well, yeah. Some native people are mixed native/white after colonial times as is the case with my family. same with some native/black families, a mixing after colonial times. however there is compelling evidence that there was a black presence in the America's in pre-colonial times, going back many tens of thousands of years, and for those with a more open mind maybe hundreds of thousands of years. And it could very well be the case that black communities of people, indigenous to the America's just got shifted around to different plantation locations in the colonial era, creating a cultural amnesia. I am of the belief that while this was going on, the slave trade merchant-class ships were also bringing back people from Africa, eventually making the 2 groups indistinguishable from each other

I don't want to put words in his mouth but mickey provided some good links the other year to some articles of Black tribes, I think in California. Alot of people might get ****ed at this issue, but I see this issue more as an academic's or scholars need to compartmentalize everything, and to label everything as different instead of looking for threads of a common origin. They do this with language, race, culture, you name it.

Despite the fact that this video clings to some old and becomming out of date paradigms such as the bering strait theory, and perhaps conservative dating methods, I found this video documentary to be educational concerning an early black presence, tens of thousands of years old, in south america, an aboriginal presence (what they don't really touch here is how wide spread this culture really must have been)-

https://youtu.be/HiumX48gm1w

[MarathonTmatt]

Does the chance exist the stonework you photographed be at least partially Viking?

http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/society/text/other_artifacts.htm

The Native presence in the NorthEast had a tradition of stone-building. The population density was a little higher than what academics currently place it as. Most of the water in the United States is located East of the Mississipi River, and people have always traditionally lived where the water is.

Concerning the link- I don't really agree with Horsford's theories on where Lief Erikson's settlement was along the Charles River in Boston area. I just don't see the evidence. I am not denying that Lief Erikson was here, he probably was, but more concrete evidence will have to be found for his settlement, for Vinland. It could be in Boston area, or in Maine, or on Cape Cod/ Martha's Vineyard, we just can't say yet. I have talked to Wampanoag people who still have a cultural tradition, or rememberance of dealing with Vikings, both the good and the bad.

The Newport Tower is interesting. That could very well be something, non-Native and pre-colonial.

The legend of Norumbega is pretty deep. That is a French mis-pronunciation of the Abenaki (Native) word "Nolumbeka" which means "a stretch of quiet water between the two rapids", indicating water which flows in 2 or more directions, a very sacred place for Native people. Such places were often ceremonial gathering spots, and/or the center or hub of greater village site locations which stretched for miles every which way, such as the Echo Lake area (headwaters of the Charles, Blackstone and Sudbury Rivers) in Hopkinton MA which I have previously covered on this thread (and will do a better job of covering again- I was a bit shotty before.) "America's Stonehenge" aka Mystery Hill in North Salem New Hampshire along the Merrimack River (which dumps into the Atlantic, and the Sudbury feeds into the Merrimack), is the hub of another such "city" center. Native American in origin.

Norumbega was said to be a lost city with much gold/silver, much like the legends of El Derodo or lost "cities" in the Amazon, etc. Virrazano looked for it in New England in the 1500's and so did Samuel de Champlain in 1604. However I can tell you straight up that there is not one, but hundreds of large village/ city centers in New England/ the North East along headwaters that have, or once had, unique stone structures such as temples, shrines, chambers, etc. In the SouthEast (Georgia, Tennessee, etc.) the stone structures were lined with "Fool's Gold" that many early colonists went to great lengths to remove, returning to a European country only to find out that they had been tricked by worthless Fool's Gold. I suspect and have seen evidence that this may also be the case with some of the sites in the North East. People like Virrazano and Champlain probably took off with the booty, and it's in some Vatican treasury somewhere. Things like Herkemer Diamonds (really a quartz crystal, a "Fool's Diamond") and quartz played a significant role in Native ceremony/ sacred objects. I remember long ago reading an 18th century paper from New Hampshire about a group of colonists bragging to themselves about stripping all of the valuable objects and "diamonds" off of Native stone structures, but for the life of me I have been unable to re-find this genuine article.

I can pretty confidentaly say that the pictures I feature in this thread are of Native origin. However, Viking and pre-Viking Scandinavia did have a stone mound/ cairn building tradition too, and as we can see from the Red Paint and Red Ochre people from many thousands of years ago, there is a cultural connection so it's not surprising we see both these proud cultures making these cairns. Hope that makes sense.

[boxerbilly]

I don't want to put words in his mouth but mickey provided some good links the other year to some articles of Black tribes, I think in California. Alot of people might get ****ed at this issue, but I see this issue more as an academic's or scholars need to compartmentalize everything, and to label everything as different instead of looking for threads of a common origin. They do this with language, race, culture, you name it.



https://youtu.be/HiumX48gm1w


WHY? Why get angry? People SUCK ! Thank you for the link. I'll have to watch it later. We get feed so much bullcrap and take it at face value. We have forgot how to think for ourselves and which mind to listen to.

Please continue this thread as you are able. Thank you for taking the time to increase my understanding. Appreciated.
To think the first time I looked in this thread I clicked a link and figure its just about some stone art he took pictures of. My mistake. Sorry.
Not sure what made me look deeper.

[Jimbo]

MarathonTmatt:

Hopefully this isn't too 'way out there' for this thread, but here's something:

http://www.examiner.com/article/red-haired-and-blonde-blue-eyed-giants-america-the-great-smithsonian-coverup

Actually, there have also been tales of giants among the natives in South America, the Solomon Islands, etc., with very similar descriptions.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Equally, there have been stories of very small people existing all over the world, much like the twins who could summon Mothra in the Godzilla movies. Funny, I never viewed them as odd.

In recent years there has been talk about the word Melungeon and there is real discomfort in acknowledging the word and the people as African and of African descent. These free people were also taken into slavery.This link is worth printing out because you do not always get this honesty:

http://www.eclectica.org/v5n3/hashaw.html


mickey

[boxerbilly]

Tmatt, I've watched the first 12 minutes. I'll need to complete in segments. I like it.

My understanding is that blacks, I hope that is not offensive to any here, it is not intended to be, are 100% modern human. That Whites and Asians still carry Neanderthal genes. A sub species of an older human line.

Truth is we would be hard pressed to find many pure anything today. I think we are all more or less mutts. Some retain more pedigree if that word fits. And blacks are the only ones that could still have that.

[MarathonTmatt]

MarathonTmatt:

Hopefully this isn't too 'way out there' for this thread, but here's something:

http://www.examiner.com/article/red-haired-and-blonde-blue-eyed-giants-america-the-great-smithsonian-coverup

Actually, there have also been tales of giants among the natives in South America, the Solomon Islands, etc., with very similar descriptions.

Jimbo-

That's cool! I read part of a book once "An Alternative View of the Distant Past" and one of the things the author was saying, was that our Earth could have been affected by plasma radiation a long time ago, which is an alternative way to look at things like fossilization. I am not very read up on this particular subject though, some of the talking points elude me. But I think he said that something could have caused the Earth's axial tilt we are experiencing (off by 23.5 degrees if I remember correctly.) Before this cataclysm that caused the Earth's tilt, there would have been increased oxygen levels from what we experience today, as the Earth's axis would have been in total balance (currently it is imbalanced). The small fern bushes that we see today at our feet would have been giant 40 foot trees. Life on Earth would have been surrounded in a fog of oxygen crystals, as if all life on Earth was on a mountain top, probably extending the human life span. Then the author said there was a controlled experiment in Japan where they grew tomatoes with high levels of controlled oxygen and they were growing giant tomatoes many feet long.

I'm sure that the giants of old would have been "something else" from us entirely. They probably used different parts of their brain and DNA that we don't today. What strikes me is there are huge boulder arrangements/ enclosures found all over the world. Those boulder arrangements aren't like stone mounds/cairns or stone chambers/ shrines/ temples at all, or like a typical propped boulder for a solar/ calander alignment. These boulder arrangements could be from an entirely different epoch/ era on Earth from the more recent (Post Ice Age) stoneworks such as cairns, chambers, shrines, etc.

PS- Interesting about the giant connection between South America/ Polynesia/ etc.

[Jimbo]

Jimbo-

That's cool! I read part of a book once "An Alternative View of the Distant Past" and one of the things the author was saying, was that our Earth could have been affected by plasma radiation a long time ago, which is an alternative way to look at things like fossilization. I am not very read up on this particular subject though, some of the talking points elude me. But I think he said that something could have caused the Earth's axial tilt we are experiencing (off by 23.5 degrees if I remember correctly.) Before this cataclysm that caused the Earth's tilt, there would have been increased oxygen levels from what we experience today, as the Earth's axis would have been in total balance (currently it is imbalanced). The small fern bushes that we see today at our feet would have been giant 40 foot trees. Life on Earth would have been surrounded in a fog of oxygen crystals, as if all life on Earth was on a mountain top, probably extending the human life span. Then the author said there was a controlled experiment in Japan where they grew tomatoes with high levels of controlled oxygen and they were growing giant tomatoes many feet long.

I'm sure that the giants of old would have been "something else" from us entirely. They probably used different parts of their brain and DNA that we don't today. What strikes me is there are huge boulder arrangements/ enclosures found all over the world. Those boulder arrangements aren't like stone mounds/cairns or stone chambers/ shrines/ temples at all, or like a typical propped boulder for a solar/ calander alignment. These boulder arrangements could be from an entirely different epoch/ era on Earth from the more recent (Post Ice Age) stoneworks such as cairns, chambers, shrines, etc.

PS- Interesting about the giant connection between South America/ Polynesia/ etc.

Matt,
I agree that such giants would have been different; humanoid, but not fully human. Common descriptions of giants in different geographical locations include red hair, double rows of teeth, six digits on each hand and foot, and generally cannabalistic behavior. Supposedly there were Native American tribes who fought against them. I've even heard about some Alaska natives describing giants in the past. Those are pretty distinctive descriptions to come from such a variety of disparate places and cultures on the earth.

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings,

Equally, there have been stories of very small people existing all over the world, much like the twins who could summon Mothra in the Godzilla movies. Funny, I never viewed them as odd.

In recent years there has been talk about the word Melungeon and there is real discomfort in acknowledging the word and the people as African and of African descent. These free people were also taken into slavery.This link is worth printing out because you do not always get this honesty:

http://www.eclectica.org/v5n3/hashaw.html


mickey

Thank you for the article about the Melungeons, more people need to know that such communities exist.

In the NorthEast there are Algonquin legends of Granny Squanit and the Little People:

http://www.wilderutopia.com/traditions/myth/mohegan-story-healing-forest-little-people/

[boxerbilly]

I was thinking about the giants and correlated to pyramids and Stonehenge. I have read some attribute that to them. Possible other explanations. Sort of veering off topic but very cool to me and perhaps you guys.

How were the pyramids of egypt really built - Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJcp13hAO3U

part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxFXsoqbfrk

Man Moves Huge Blocks! I was blown away by this video many years ago. Could people we may consider dullards have been smarter than us? Signs often say yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4

[boxerbilly]

Have a good night fellows. Thanks for the cool links and write ups.

[MarathonTmatt]

Matt,
I agree that such giants would have been different; humanoid, but not fully human. Common descriptions of giants in different geographical locations include red hair, double rows of teeth, six digits on each hand and foot, and generally cannabalistic behavior. Supposedly there were Native American tribes who fought against them. I've even heard about some Alaska natives describing giants in the past. Those are pretty distinctive descriptions to come from such a variety of disparate places and cultures on the earth.

Very good points!

[MarathonTmatt]

I was thinking about the giants and correlated to pyramids and Stonehenge. I have read some attribute that to them. Possible other explanations. Sort of veering off topic but very cool to me and perhaps you guys.

How were the pyramids of egypt really built - Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJcp13hAO3U

part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxFXsoqbfrk

Man Moves Huge Blocks! I was blown away by this video many years ago. Could people we may consider dullards have been smarter than us? Signs often say yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4

Billy-
Nice. In the third video. This is similar to how the Easter Islanders erected the Moai statues, when they were first re-erecting them in the 1950's/ 60's. A group of men used wooden levers just like that, except they pulled the statue up inch by inch. There was one man, the leader of the group, who stuffed rocks under the base of the statue until the Moai was erected back on to the original platform. No doubt all these old stone building traditions applied similar techniques in many cases.

[boxerbilly]

Again, veering a bit off course or is it all just interconnected?

"Man will believe anything, as long as it's not in the Bible." -- Napoleon Bonaparte, emperor, 19th century


NOAH: the TRUTH is BIGGER than you thought......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lktmmd7YnD8

[Syn7]

I don't think the use of simple machines and a **** ton of slave labour makes them smarter than us. Besides, smarter isn't the right word. We are for sure more knowledgeable. Let's not forget all the ridiculous **** they believed. Crocodile and hippopotamus most certainly do not have a say on what the read is at the cataracts.

Don't get me wrong, amazing accomplishments, but let's keep this in perspective. We have machines on other planets. We have cured many diseases. We have seen distant galaxies. We developed the gravitational constant. We can predict the charge on a particle with very little information. We have very accurate and reliable microsieves. We can pack upwards of 10 billion transistors into the tiniest package. I can go on for days. So yeah, dudes like Archimedes were really smart, but we have come a long way from then.

And we can bang out a like pyramid in significantly less time for less cost and with less people. This is progress in that respect. So smarter, probably not. More knowledgeable, certainly not. And if you want to throw a spiritual element to the conversation, fine, but let's keep that in perspective too. You wanna believe, cool, but we have to admit that there is no substantial foundation for any of these beliefs. And to simply assume that there is and we have just lost this knowledge is a ridiculous and far fetched hypothesis, to put it mildly.

Let's keep it real here, we're all agnostic.

[wenshu]

http://news.discovery.com/history/ancient-egypt/pyramids-tombs-giza-egypt.htm

[boxerbilly]

I don't think the use of simple machines and a **** ton of slave labour makes them smarter than us. Besides, smarter isn't the right word. We are for sure more knowledgeable. Let's not forget all the ridiculous **** they believed. Crocodile and hippopotamus most certainly do not have a say on what the read is at the cataracts.

Don't get me wrong, amazing accomplishments, but let's keep this in perspective. We have machines on other planets. We have cured many diseases. We have seen distant galaxies. We developed the gravitational constant. We can predict the charge on a particle with very little information. We have very accurate and reliable microsieves. We can pack upwards of 10 billion transistors into the tiniest package. I can go on for days. So yeah, dudes like Archimedes were really smart, but we have come a long way from then.

And we can bang out a like pyramid in significantly less time for less cost and with less people. This is progress in that respect. So smarter, probably not. More knowledgeable, certainly not. And if you want to throw a spiritual element to the conversation, fine, but let's keep that in perspective too. You wanna believe, cool, but we have to admit that there is no substantial foundation for any of these beliefs. And to simply assume that there is and we have just lost this knowledge is a ridiculous and far fetched hypothesis, to put it mildly.

Let's keep it real here, we're all agnostic.

All great points.

Still, I felt the video I posted was in the same vein as being discussed. Legends and myths . Not entirely dissimilar to the Indian stories. Complete with land crossing and different topography. Even the discussion of Neanderthal's. Perhaps in a light not thought of by many. I probably should have pointed out the video is pro Christian and Holy Bible. If one wants to remove the religious theme and view it more as a historical/scientific story then do so. But, most of not all civilizations had much the same story to tell. Complete with Dragons.

Side note. I am not Agnostic. I am a Christian. Not a very good one. I don't even think I try to be a good one. I certainly don't push it on others or disapprove of others beliefs. Nor do I know enough about it to teach it. But it was a very good video in my opinion even if one removes the religious backdrop/theme.



Wenshu, thanks. I recall reading like 20 years ago the number one reason for a call in sick for those that built the pyramids was being hung over. Getting drunk was so important that if beer was not provided the workers at night, they would not work period. More recently, I think it was the Egyptians that got in a uproar about those of Jewish decent claiming they built the pyramids. I think with-in the last year or so.

Again, after viewing some of the Indian videos posted and watching others in youtube sidebar. I was struck by the similarity of stories. The land crossing. Giants. Floods. Dragons. Ancient man. Different topography. All that stuff. To me it seems all interconnected. That we were not a bunch of isolated pockets of people long ago. Something I have believed for 25+ years. Again, drawing form the Bible and the tribes that left and went north. Which if true, I would descend from. These would have been the same people that crossed into the Americas when the map looked different. Entering at the top of the eastern seaboard. Predating even the Vikings landing. According to Indian legend.

There are some historians that believe the northern east coast Indians came to the America's by the same or similar route by the way.

[boxerbilly]

What I found most interesting and a bit unsettling, in the video was his belief of our DNA weakening as time goes on. Lifespan talk and all that. Ancient man had the bone structure to endure hundreds of years. A reasoning why brow ridges got so thick. Time alive. True or not it makes one think.

[Syn7]

We're all agnostic if we are honest. You don't KNOW one way or the other. You CHOOSE to make that leap of faith. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all. Personal experience means nothing outside of self. Don't get me wrong, if it makes you a better person, rock on with your bad self. Let's just keep it honest.


And yes, much of the ancient history has a lot of crossover. Partly because of cross cultural exchange, partly because some of it is a most basic explanation of as of then(and to some extent today) unexplained phenomena. Plus stories are fun. Who doesn't like to have fun. But again, let's be honest about it. Argumentum ad numerum is, after all, a fallacious argument. Consensus does not always equate to the truth.

[boxerbilly]

We're all agnostic if we are honest. You don't KNOW one way or the other. You CHOOSE to make that leap of faith. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all. Personal experience means nothing outside of self. Don't get me wrong, if it makes you a better person, rock on with your bad self. Let's just keep it honest.


And yes, much of the ancient history has a lot of crossover. Partly because of cross cultural exchange, partly because some of it is a most basic explanation of as of then(and to some extent today) unexplained phenomena. Plus stories are fun. Who doesn't like to have fun. But again, let's be honest about it. Argumentum ad numerum is, after all, a fallacious argument. Consensus does not always equate to the truth.


Well that's it really. It is "fun" to learn different view points. Some find it boring. It ain't for everyone. Probably not help us in anyway, shape or form but still its a version of history.

I can not disagree with anything you wrote above. Sound logic. And yes, it is a faith based deal. That to ain't for everyone. Again, I am not a very good Christian.
I try and bend the rules to my beliefs, lol.

Thanks for joining in this thread. I hope you continue to do so. It is good to have a antagonist to the subject matter. As you suggest, it potentially keeps things honest. At the very least it puts our feet back on the ground.

[MarathonTmatt]

Clip about research into ancient canal systems in North America. I think the guy John Jensen published a book on his research. There is also more of his in-depth work up on Youtube, but this 2 min. clip presents the gist of it-

https://youtu.be/mQwCmrmc-fk

[mickey]

Greetings MarathonTmatt,

If those canals turn out to be spaces between walls, it would confirm to me that this land is where Atlantis existed. Walls that could have been used for military protection or for the purpose of retaining/redirecting water during times of deluge. More needs to be looked at.


mickey

[Syn7]

You're assuming Atlantis existed. Possible that word got back to the Greeks(which is our main source) of North America, but it would have been through northern island hopping or the land bridge, most likely the latter, not by crossing the Atlantic. And there most certainly was not an advanced civilization here thousands of years ago. There would be evidence of that, and there isn't. As for earlier settlers who either died off or blended in with what we now call first nations, possible. But again, there isn't very much strong evidence to suggest that. Not that I've heard about anyways.

[Syn7]

And, confirm? Really? Not a very rigorous analysis, Mickey. Suggest the possibility? Ok. I disagree, but I can roll with that. But canals are far from confirmation of an ancient advanced society that we don't even know really existed.

[mickey]

Greetings Syn7,

Long time.

Just because there is no evidence of xyz does not mean that there was no xyz. It just means that I has not been found. Same goes for advanced civilizations on this continent. We are both free to speculate pro or con. It is a wonderful world.

mickey

[Syn7]

Yeah, been working hard, no free time for the last few months. I have much of the summer off though, I'm gonna re-introduce myself to this place called outside. I hear it's nice. Going on a 4 day hike/camping thing next sat. I'm excited, can't wait!

As for xyz. Well of course. There may be an alien ship long abandoned orbiting Jupiter and we can't see it cause it still has enough power to stay cloaked :p. But I see absolutely no evidence to that effect therefore I have no reason to consider such a hypothesis. I feel the same way about god. Everytime I have looked for him/her, I just found religion instead. Some elusive **** right there! lol.

The only reference we even have is from Plato's republic and they were a naval rival which would suggest that they were relatively close and not advanced to the point to where they could take over. But it's just a story. No more reason to believe that than there is to believe in any other ancient allegory that has absolutely no supporting evidence. But yeah, it's possible, just highly improbable. I think like an engineer, we live eat and breathe probability.

Electrons can pass through solid matter. Despite having a low probability, the high frequency makes it happen all the time. That means it is possible that you could walk through your wall. But the probability of this is extremely low. So yeah, possible, but that **** ain't gonna happen. Speculation is just that, speculation. Nothing more. Conjecture can be fun, but you gotta take it with a grain of salt. That's why I jumped on the word "confirm". I have very high expectations that need to be fulfilled for me to even consider using such a term.

[mickey]

Greetings Syn7,

You should have looked at the two words that followed "confirm": "to me". It had nothing to do with anyone else on this planet. Yet, you made it about you. I ain't worked up about it. It happens. :)

Native American people are definitely high civilization. That is what we are glimpsing with this thread. And it is what people are slowly understanding.

As for Atlantis, I know of someone found a connection there. And that person was not even trying to go there nor even thinking about it's existence.

mickey

[Syn7]

Elaborate?

Define "high civilization" please.


Not about me, about the scientific method. No other model comes close as far as predictions are concerned. Subjective vs objective, the age old agrument. In my mind it's settled.


I ain't mad atcha. I just like to argue. The saying goes "arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in ****. After a while you realize they're enjoying it!" ;

[boxerbilly]

HIGH

2. great, or greater than normal, in quantity, size, or intensity.



Full Definition of CIVILIZATION


1

a : a relatively high level of cultural and technological development; specifically : the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained

b : the culture characteristic of a particular time or place


https://books.google.com/books?id=65rDywk341QC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=high+civilizations+in+ancient+america&source=bl&ots=Fl7PRIxScf&sig=rZBEMHfgMQSeIIfURg3s7dAA-80&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BAwzVYrOG4edNtCogfgB&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=high%20civilizations%20in%20ancient%20america&f=false

2

: the process of becoming civilized
3

a : refinement of thought, manners, or taste

b : a situation of urban comfort

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings MarathonTmatt,

If those canals turn out to be spaces between walls, it would confirm to me that this land is where Atlantis existed. Walls that could have been used for military protection or for the purpose of retaining/redirecting water during times of deluge. More needs to be looked at.


mickey

Hi mickey-

according to a survey done in the late 19th century there is over a quarter of a million miles worth of stone walls in the new england area, meandering around the land-scape, up ledges, retaining wet-land and water-works, etc. if these meandering walls were combined into one continuous wall, it would go around the circumference of the globe (ie the earth) more than 10 times.

it is a statistical imposiibility that most of these walls were built in the colonial era, within 200 year time frame. colonists did build some stone walls, but compared to the already exisitng indigenous walls is minute in comparison. colonists also used wood more as a resource/ fence-making. i also know how to tell the difference as these two wall building traditions are different building styles.

alot of the walls, of ancient origin (native, etc.) i examine usually have serpent and/ or bird efiigy's/ motiffs incorporated into the design elements. also stone altars are frequently incorportaed into the walls with little statuette stone idols still in place on top of these altars (birds, turtles, snakes, panthers, etc.), and the walls are usually found in context to many other ancient types of stone works. also i did notice some of these walls are either-

a) fortifying village and/or ceremonial sites

b) retaining water from brooks, swamps, wetlands. sometimes even terraced in multiple levels (lower level to retain the water at the edge of the stream, upper level fortifying the hillside). things like that.

if anyone in general is curious i have featured some wall examples in this thread before & will probably post more soon. these are pre-colonial feats (who knows how old some of this is) of engineering.

these walls indicate a stone-wall building tradition by native people over thousands of generations, given the sheer volume of stone-work. also, in colonial records, land deeds that refer to "indian fences" or "olde indian fences" are referring to stone walls of pre-colonial origin. alot of walls i have looked at run up steep rocky ledges, which from a colonial farming perspective makes no sense, as those grounds were never farmed or maintained by farmers, it would have been designated and classified as "wasteland." however, alot of these archaic-looking walls, thousands of years ago, would have been capping off and retaining the sides of beautiful river valleys.

[mickey]

Greetings,

MarathonTmatt, that is a major WOW. Thank you for sharing that with me.


Syn7, I hope things clear up for you. I sense you really do need that vacation. By the way, please keep me on your caseload. You are much more pleasant than "Blah blub blub blub Blah". I will not clarify that one.


mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

The only reference we even have is from Plato's republic and they were a naval rival which would suggest that they were relatively close and not advanced to the point to where they could take over. But it's just a story. No more reason to believe that than there is to believe in any other ancient allegory that has absolutely no supporting evidence. But yeah, it's possible, just highly improbable. I think like an engineer, we live eat and breathe probability.
.

Plato first wrote of "Atlantis" in his works "Timaeus" and "Critias". He mentions them as a naval rival in his work "Republic." I would recommend Samuel Poe's (who is Ojibwe Native) book "The Algonkian Conquest of the Mediterranian Region of 11,500 Years Ago" for more information on this. Like all books some things are subjective that you may not agree with, but it does present some good info. He also has some good info on Youtube about canal building. And, as far as maritime feats, it clicks with what scholars have calssified as "The Red Paint People" in the American NorthEast, who I have talked about on this thread before, who were excellent maritime navigators as far back as 9,000 BC years ago.

I have already provided links, but okay, here it is again- http://www.ancientlights.org/tl1.html We know by some of their stone tools and idols that they were fishing large sea animals many miles out to sea, and that they erected standing stones as navigational devices. A new picture/evidence has emerged that they were excellent sea-farers. Also see the "Hidden Landscapes" series, again, all links I have provided before on this thread.

I also recommend the book 'Manitou: The Sacred Landscape of New England's Native Civilization" by Mavor and Dix, who were both engineers/ scientists. They did a lot of archaeo-astronomy at sites, and found alot of solar alignments. Below is a link to the Upton Chamber, which is one of the sites they looked at in their book- http://www.stonestructures.org/html/upton-chamber.html

Although not pertaining to American megaliths, I recomend for you James Swagger's (an Irish engineer) book "The Sirius Newgrange Mystery" pertaining to the passage chamber of Newgrange, Ireland.

Plato himself did not write about Atlantis as an allegory, but as an account- one can see this in the tone of his writing. Since scholars don't know how to apply this work historically, they came up with the notion that it was an allegory. It's like calling 98% of our DNA "junk" dna. No, it's not junk, they just don't understand it. Plato's tradition of Atlantis can also be traced back to the Egyptian priesthood. It was originally this priest-class that told some of the learned Greek scholars on their pilgrimages to Egypt of the account of Atlantis. Plato's account describes a "volcanic island of ash" which could very well be Iceland. Also the suffix -atl which is used in Atlantic, Atlantis, Atlas, etc. is not Latin or Greek in origin. Neither is it Egyptian. So where does the suffix (or prefix or whatever) -atl come from? It comes from the America's, such as the language Nahuatl from the Yucatan, or the atlatl, the throwing spear used throughout North and Central America, with possible origins in the NorthEast.

[MarathonTmatt]

Since I did a shotty job of covering this very important site, I am going to cover it again.

Echo Lake is in Hopkinton/ Milford MA. and is the headwaters of the Charles (flows into Boston Harbor), Blackstone (flows into Narragansett Bay RI) and Sudbury (flows into other rivers that dump into the Merrimack/Atlantic in NH) Rivers. To Native people such areas were important meeting spots- the confluence of rivers. I first started hiking that area with Massachusetts state archaelogist and anthropologist Curt Hoffman, who I first met when hiking a group up to another site I found, the stone shrine with the winter solstice alignment (first post on this thread.)

Curt wanted to see if there was anything important to be found in the Echo Lake area. We found some cairns on a hillside the first time we went in. It is a relatively in-accessible place with alot of rock ledges/ under-brush. I went back and found the Stone Lodge/ Shrine. There are also stone altars surrounding the Stone Lodge, as well as a ceremonial stone circle at the foot of the lodge.

The three stone altars-

This is the closest stone altar to the Stone Lodge. I imagine somebody placing an offering on this stone slab before entering the main vicinity of the site, over-looking the site-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mUlNhyMevno/VPseboMYvWI/AAAAAAAAEvU/5mYx-FIF4mk/s1600/ech8A.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Fjukpxghecg/VPseexB6myI/AAAAAAAAEvc/-i5FCcthf7Y/s1600/ech8.jpg

Stone Altar #2, incorporates a stone fish effigy-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-02RkJYv8pE8/VPsfVHKUJLI/AAAAAAAAEws/ZCj0vAzx5yI/s1600/ech5.jpg

Stone Altar #3, stone ring petro-form and stone slab-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YGmQGhJaQsA/VQJm-2eWKqI/AAAAAAAAExU/JAa-SMTlJwk/s1600/ech7OB.jpg

The ceremonial stone ring at the foot of the stone lodge (partly buried)-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1c5gxokxm1w/VPsejZi0aaI/AAAAAAAAEvk/yYnYDdDOGS4/s1600/ech7B.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rAOwKTigA-g/VQJnDBTKZbI/AAAAAAAAExc/rB6w_6pJdGU/s1600/ech7OA.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qi3t8iGHv20/VPsenqdsJ1I/AAAAAAAAEvs/3xaQMgtkhio/s1600/ech7BC.jpg

The Stone Lodge itself. Archeo-astronomy still needs to be done at this site, I am the only one to see this site in person for research so far-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YgCSzE9hwDs/VPseVvaqT4I/AAAAAAAAEvM/uhvQ4rjG4H0/s1600/ech7JA.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UsBkt5zT5a8/VPseIE6a1fI/AAAAAAAAEu8/iv8DuZQKsl4/s1600/ech7CA.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v9qEtPG5fuY/VPserfRT_nI/AAAAAAAAEv0/jmsKYUycEww/s1600/ech7.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sHdD_yVXgjE/VPsfPd9qOiI/AAAAAAAAEwk/0tzMeDJJA3A/s1600/ech7KC.jpg

back of the structure. I am concerned that these trees are ruining the back of the structure. also the stone work the trees are messing up seems to indicate more elaborate design elements buried in the back of the structure-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TLenv5d1N9I/VPseuXYIJ2I/AAAAAAAAEv8/CKvTNsaFRR4/s1600/ech7A.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ikOwAw-127w/VPsezS3F_eI/AAAAAAAAEwE/xU-Ru30AI3g/s1600/ech7G.jpg

Close- up of the roof slabs from climbing on top of the structure. Notice the lichen has built up, which takes thousands of years to do-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eoQgRWzLsyk/VQJnGNDiMCI/AAAAAAAAExk/g13und7mpKI/s1600/ech7O.jpg

There are no quarry marks or drill marks on any of the stone slabs. This, as well as the context of the stone altars and ring around the Stone Lodge puts this structure in the context of being ancient.

Some of the nearby hill-side cairns-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Jwch4cJd5NU/VL5xmypW3aI/AAAAAAAAD3g/uA2ETX04oRY/s1600/ech16.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uvbKc5JS5VY/VL5xqVWkGCI/AAAAAAAAD3o/IvnrR3bIA-8/s1600/ech16A.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kimwHxB8FLk/VL5x9uaWmvI/AAAAAAAAD4A/2FuUEEEGHiE/s1600/ech16D.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pYmeVUTpOgg/VL5yD7Vze2I/AAAAAAAAD4I/deRkKzbFk2I/s1600/ech16E.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Q6AurRPrO4s/VL5yXwWmphI/AAAAAAAAD4o/U8oIT_0Z5Js/s1600/ech16G.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PCair3RcU9A/VL5y28yE3RI/AAAAAAAAD5Q/1QtYCnyaIEc/s1600/ech21.jpg

I also found that the Echo Lake Stone Lodge (my description) or Chamber, is very structurally similar to the Chamber found in Webster, MA. The landowner of the Webster MA. Chamber has done some restoration work to the Chamber on his property, older photos reveal it in a more decrepid state. Echo Lake structure is built into a boulder, while the Webster Chamber is dressed up with smaller stones-

Echo Lake-
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oz-lO-saHmg/VL5sDECZbSI/AAAAAAAAD2E/zBbnUfIWPxM/s1600/ech7CA.jpg

Webster, MA. Chamber-
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mMdwOaApQx0/VL5sVzMW3OI/AAAAAAAAD2c/44CaWOj8FKE/s1600/webster2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-B5fQdDMX-fI/VL5s6nadGKI/AAAAAAAAD3M/aGktj3nh2nA/s1600/webster1.jpg

Webster Chamber opens up into a "P" shape where Echo Lake structure is a straight "l"

Temple/ Chamber along the Qinnebaug River (see earlier posts in thread). Incorporates being built into a boulder (such as by Echo Lake) and is dressed up in stone (as in Webster)-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ObUVbJdsUZ0/VL5sJP1In6I/AAAAAAAAD2M/r1ue6USUw4o/s1600/cha1B.jpg (this is the chamber w/ the standing stones on the roof).

It looks like the builders worked with what was available as a resource in the natural area, therefore differences in building materials, but the structures are similar enough that there was uniformity as well.

Back to the Echo Lake area. Not only is this the headwaters of those 3 rivers, it is the highest point in the region, between Boston and Worcester, MA. It is located in a tract of land that was Indian Territory up through 1715, well into the colonial era and later than 1675/76, which was King Philip's War in the region, which broke the influence and power of the Native confederacies. Many survivors fled to Canada, were killed, or sold into slavery into the Carribean Islands. Yet a small remnant group of native people held on to some of this land, up through 1715 when it was aggresively purchased by trust funds and benefactors of Harvard University, such as Edward Hopkins, whom the town of Hopkinton, MA. is named after, the start of the Boston marathon. In the 1600's, there was a failed assasination attempt on Edward Hopkin's life by a native group in CT. He was playing groups of colonial and native alliances against each other. He was also a cabinet member of Oliver Cromwell.

Anyway, before Plymouth Colony in 1620 exploration of the New England area began in 1497. Explorers were told to look for Norumbega, a lost city of gold said to be in the region. Expoloeres like Giovanni de Verrazano in 1524 who explored Narragansett Bay and Samuel de Champlain in 1608 even placed different locations of Norumbega on their maps. Was this just to please the crowns of europe to fund their expolrations or is there something to this Norumbega? Dutch "fisher-men" were also all over this region in the 1500's and in 1609, the Bank of Amsterdam, the first Central Bank, was established.

Small amounts of gold were found in Hopkinton MA. in several places in the 19th century. If colonists who lived there for only 150 years could find it, Native people surely knew about it. Could it be that some of these structures, such as the Echo Lake Stone Lodge, were originally lined with Gold Leaf, plundered and stripped by early explorers and Dutch "fisher-men?" Hopkinton MA. also had/ has a mineral springs, which was a big ritzy tourist attraction in the 19th century. There is also a high concentration of Native ceremonial and stoneworks all through-out the towns of this area, what I refer to as "The Greater Echo Lake Area."

[mickey]

Greetings,

MarathonTmatt:

You can really drop the knowledge. If you have a book/video series forthcoming, I am so buying it. If you have not considered doing something like that, please do. I think the world is ready for you and what you have to share.

mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings,

MarathonTmatt:

You can really drop the knowledge. If you have a book/video series forthcoming, I am so buying it. If you have not considered doing something like that, please do. I think the world is ready for you and what you have to share.

mickey

Thanks mickey. Ever since you provided the link to the Ancient American magazine it has been in the back of my mind to organize some of my material and see if any magazines are interested in publishing any of my articles. That would be a good jumping off point at least. Still something I need to look into, though. Thanks.

[PalmStriker]

:) New World Meets The Imperial Court: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yK-9hxk5HY

[MarathonTmatt]

:) New World Meets The Imperial Court: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yK-9hxk5HY


Hey, yeah, some would say that Colombus was "last." There was another Spaniard on his ship, one of his right-hand mans that had explored the America's a decade or so before Colombus' first voyage. But because he was not as prostegious as Colombus, who was granted to work directly under the ordanance of the crown, people never here about those other explorations from those European areas. It's been my understanding that when Colombus first sailed he knew full well where he was going- this was the crown's chance to strategically make their move, and Colombus was their man.

Chinese explorations of the Americas is pretty interesting. I'm sure there is alot from that time period not well known about or only dimly remembered. There is strong evidence that Marco Pollo sailed to the America's on a Chinese sailing fleet, a fact not well known about (Pollo would have then had that info for the Spanish/Portugese/ etc. crowns for when later exploiters such as Colombus sailed.

[MarathonTmatt]

There is a place in the woods in Massachusetts that I have been building/ salvaging stoneworks for the past week. It is on top of a moderate rock ledge with a great vast over-look and open sky both day and night in a heavily wooded area. This rock ledge was partly quarried in the late 19th- mid 20th centuries by quarry-men. You might say I am re-beautifying or re-doctoring the site. I feel strongly about this site that I should contribute something to the stone-building tradition and bring balance back to the site. On a sloping hill down the ledge there are deep gouges of earth left behind by quarrymen next to native stoneworks- I know for sure they must have messed alot of things up. The ledge itself was partly blasted/ drilled by the quarrymen and left bare. But amazingly the ledge still holds much natural beauty.

Oh, and it is hard to find. You must go up another rock ledge with no marked trail, than pick up a small overgrown footpath to get to the spot.

What I have built so far on the ledge-

A stone enclosure, walled on three sides with an open entrance. A sort of "vision quest" seat. When I am not at the site I place a rounded stone in the middle of the enclosure, in abscence of someone sitting there.

A stone cairn pile with a standing stone placed in the middle. The standing stone I found maybe an 1/8 of a mile away from the ledge, and is shoulder/ neck height, so it is a large stone. It was lying face down on the ground, again, amidst destruction from quarrymen- but this standing stone is not the result of quarrying and is very old. I decided to slavage it so I picked it up and hauled it to the special rock ledge, which was hard to do, especially having to walk up a ledge, worry about roots carrying the sacred object. I made a cairn at a nice elevated spot to place the Standing Stone on top of, placing more stones around it's base. I decorated it with a dead tree branch and tied colored string around it- the string closest to the stone is magnetically attracted to the standing stone and will move by itself to the stone.

A circular stone cairn that is hollow/ devoid of stones in the center. This is basically an expression of dualism, or the yin to the above standing stones' yang energy, creating a vortex of energy.

A stone altar at the center of the ledge. (Since this ledge was drilled/ blasted in parts, there are some flat areas, like a terrace, as well as areas that avoided the blasting retaining it's natural roundness of the rock formation.) The design for this altar is like a chamber, with a roof slab placed on top, two sides, a back and an open entrance but is only waist/stomach high and slightly wider than shoulder width.

A fireplace with 2 stones resembling turtle heads on either side sticking out from the stone circle.

Two stone rows. The outer stone row is going to have a standing stone on the end, which is really a large flake from the quarrymen blasting the ledge but is perfectly standing-stone shaped. I rolled it into place using my legs, but the problem is I cannot prop it up alone so far, it is taller than a person and very heavy. I don't know who might want to help me put it into place. The second stone row is closer to the "campfire" and is a serpent row- the first stone is the head of the serpent, clearly, the last stone is it's tail. This stone row also functions as benches around the fire-place and forms a crescent shape around the fire.

There is also other small things such as a blasted stone that looks like a profile of a face. So I placed this on top of another rock. Actually, the face looks different from 3 different angles but always looks like a face- head/neck.

Every day that I have made it up to the ledge I am spontaeniously inspired to create something new, without planning anything before-hand.

After going to site after site, learning deeply about this matter I have decided to make a contribution, in a place that needs the healing that I feel strongly about (the locality of the ledge).

[MarathonTmatt]

Article about the N. American Great Horned Serpent-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horned_Serpent

PS- if you read the part about ThunderBirds, the anthropologists are wrong.

[MarathonTmatt]

A)- "Our Reltionship With the Unseen (5 min)-

https://youtu.be/l-nVoQ4cZBE

B) "The World We Used To Live In" (51 mins)-

https://youtu.be/QOL0Gm22Jy0

[Jimbo]

A)- "Our Reltionship With the Unseen (5 min)-

https://youtu.be/l-nVoQ4cZBE

B) "The World We Used To Live In" (51 mins)-

https://youtu.be/QOL0Gm22Jy0

Matt,

Thanks for the vids! Great stuff. The only thing I might point out is that in the second vid, he mentions the Smithsonian as an institution that would verify unusual finds, and how it wasn't around at the time of some of the discoveries. I disagree with him there, in that there's evidence that the Smithsonian has been aware of unusual finds that go against accepted scientific and historical beliefs, such as remains and artifacts of giants that they have confiscated and then suppressed knowledge of. So IMO, the Smithsonian would not be an ideal institution to help widen our knowledge of true history; more likely they would seize any evidence and cover it up to maintain the status quo. And so far they've been pretty effective at it.

[mickey]

Greetings,

The Great Horned Serpent corresponds to the Kundalini energy going up the spine; the crystal corresponds to the pineal gland fully activated. It might be that these paintings may have been for the purpose of activation, where the initiate would take a mind altering substance and view these paintings while in that state, triggering the energy within. The talk about the Thunderbird killing off the Great Horned serpent is not a new one. The Thunderbird corresponds to the Guruda of India, a large bird that has the power to kill dragons. The Guruda/Thunderbird may correspond to a second energy system altogether that some of us are aware of. The Cherokee legend references colored chakras, "spots", and the weak point being the seventh spot, corresponding to the crown chakra.

Just my own interpretation.

mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Matt,

Thanks for the vids! Great stuff. The only thing I might point out is that in the second vid, he mentions the Smithsonian as an institution that would verify unusual finds, and how it wasn't around at the time of some of the discoveries. I disagree with him there, in that there's evidence that the Smithsonian has been aware of unusual finds that go against accepted scientific and historical beliefs, such as remains and artifacts of giants that they have confiscated and then suppressed knowledge of. So IMO, the Smithsonian would not be an ideal institution to help widen our knowledge of true history; more likely they would seize any evidence and cover it up to maintain the status quo. And so far they've been pretty effective at it.

Jimbo,
Great point I agree 100%. In approaching subjects such as this, and looking at the evidence, whether its pointing out/ recording a stone structure with a solar alignment, or even looking at a historical document/ account I have found that you can't play the "academics" game (aka the establishment). They will go to extreme measures to white-wash everything... most likely they will simply not even research a site and never ever bother to look at it- if its not in their comfort bubble they won't be interested. So my approach is to just over-step these clowns. The evidence and proof is already in- playing their game is just stalling things- they get off on intellectual and legal diarehea or something.

There are good people though, who work under the Smithsonian Institution or who are state archaeologists for instance, such as my archaeologist friend/ contact who is an older gentleman. This man is actually willing and takes very seriously what Native people have to say about some of their history pertaining to stone structures/ etc. (such as the Narragansett Tribal Historic Officer). However, his archaeology superiors will scoff and ignore some of these serious matters. Also he told me, he is mapping the dispersion of stone sites throughout the NorthEast region and has thousands of entries. There are 2 kinds of maps that he could use and he couldn't even get a response from his superiors which map he should use to plug his data onto. So he has to do double the work and has put the data on both map versions. I like to think that he is ahead of his time, as is anyone researching and identifying sites/ etc.

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings,

The Great Horned Serpent corresponds to the Kundalini energy going up the spine; the crystal corresponds to the pineal gland fully activated. It might be that these paintings may have been for the purpose of activation, where the initiate would take a mind altering substance and view these paintings while in that state, triggering the energy within. The talk about the Thunderbird killing off the Great Horned serpent is not a new one. The Thunderbird corresponds to the Guruda of India, a large bird that has the power to kill dragons. The Guruda/Thunderbird may correspond to a second energy system altogether that some of us are aware of. The Cherokee legend references colored chakras, "spots", and the weak point being the seventh spot, corresponding to the crown chakra.

Just my own interpretation.

mickey

And your interpretation is a very good one! The crystal in the Great Horned Serpent's forehead is said to have extreme magnetic properties.

I dont know about anyone else but I have experienced magnetic/ electro-magnetic anamolies and power before, in different various situations- some were triggered by certain factors (ceremony- not me personally but I was there to witness it/ partake) while others have been spontaneous (like a force of nature- in the sky above a lake on a clear day or a discharge of energy from a cairn in the woods). it has not occured in my life on a regular basis, but has happened often enough.

[MarathonTmatt]

Sticking with some of the current theme of the thread here is another stonework forgotten to time that I noticed, on a hill in the woods. The boulder has been shaped out to look reptilian/ dinosaur-like. For some reason I thought I already posted this here but I guess not. Pics:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k4mzphT08uc/VNTQGhdPlOI/AAAAAAAAEO8/0eFgJ306ky4/s1600/mag21A.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-z0TK6pXW99w/VNTQKi2asLI/AAAAAAAAEPE/G6h7YwSgYTk/s1600/mag21B.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BISzA7K5dqs/VNZNnx8nE8I/AAAAAAAAERA/tiaJZ6icnuc/s1600/mag21.jpg

The nearby rock ledge-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fuh462JJbeo/VNTQzepJ4NI/AAAAAAAAEQE/YmdDhjutXvE/s1600/mag24.jpg

Lined up boulders at the foot of the reptilian stone-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9pueZ-JZZs8/VNTQTJ2jYEI/AAAAAAAAEPU/WjFKmB4s78I/s1600/mag21D.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yRXobDOwzPs/VNTQW11cS-I/AAAAAAAAEPc/qiZxrcdZLLw/s1600/mag21E.jpg

[mickey]

Greetings,

Matt, mas the reptile arrangement found in the same area as the bird stones?

mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings,

Matt, mas the reptile arrangement found in the same area as the bird stones?

mickey


Yes it was. The reptile stone, the bird stones and even some more of the stoneworks (including the Winter Solstice Shrine from the first post) were found in the surrounding towns of the Echo Lake area, which is where I found the Stone Lodge complex by Echo Lake I have posted alot about. Since this whole area was the headwaters of the Charles River and two other river systems in pre-colonial times, the whole area must have been the cradle to a healthily populated civilization including many ceremonial spots. One of the Native place names for the area was "Magomskauk" or "Megomisquag" (the suffix "-auk" as in "Montauk" Long Island, same as "-quag" or "-ook" in the other related Algonquin dialects.) "Ma" as in "Massachusetts" means "great, grand or big." Massachusetts originally referred to a "great" people who lived at the foot of the Blue Hills (a small mountain range near Boston with a lake at the foot of the hills, connected to the Charles). The suffix "chusett" is a place name for a mountain. In the state of MA. a famous place to go skiing is Mt. Wachusett in Central MA. Mt. Wachusett is also the place where many Native parties fled to for safety during the King Philips War of 1675-6. I always thought it was interesting that the "Ma" in the word "Mayan" stands for great or grand as well.

So- Megomskauk (Magomisquog- the vowels are often interchangeable, with literate people spelling the word the way it sounds) is the place name for the range of high hills located in Milford, MA., which is pretty much ground zero of the Echo Lake area which is by the Milford/ Hopkinton MA. town line. From the Algonquian into the English language it translates as "the grand view place among/near the great rocks" or something to that effect. There are many high ledges in this area and one can see for miles at certain spots- it was some of these same ledges, unfortuneatly that were quarried and blown up for Milford Pink Granite beginning in the mid 19th century. Today one of these high ledges is a street called "Fortune Blvd." which has many shopping centers such as Target and businesses. They also blew up ledges to put Interstate 495 through town in the early 1980's. Fortuneatly some of the ledges remain. The woods in this area is the biggest tract of wilderness between Boston and Worcester and the Echo Lake area is also at the highest point of elevation between Boston and Worcester. Coyote, Black Bear, Fox, Deer, Turkey, Bobcat, beaver and more all live in those woods. There is also a rock wall that many rock climbers train at, with a stream running behind it.

Other Native place names for the area include "Mucksquit" which means a "place of much grass", where an acknowledged Native village once existed at the edge of a lake. The drum stone in the woods mentioned above still works. The drum stone itself weighs a couple tons and is precariously balanced on a boulder platform it was split from, from high temp. heated fire. You can rock it back and forth using your hands or stand on it to rock it. It vibrates the ground even. It was a long distance calling system. It could be heard at least a good 10 miles away in the town of modern day Framingham (the location of Mt. Nobscot) without modern day noise pollution.

Some of the stone works have celestial/solar alignments which showcases the knowledge of astronomy. In Algonquian, "nehtutoonk papaume annogsps" means "a skill or knowledge about the stars" and "kesukque" means "heavenly."

I have explored this area alot looking for the remains of what can still be found. Of course I have been all over to other areas too, as shown in this thread but the "Greater Echo Lake Area" is especially impressive.

Mickey- as we were talking about thunderbirds and reptiles lately it is very keen that you brought up the fact to ask if the reptilian rock arrangement is in the same area as the bird stones. If you have any additional insight from the pics please let me know, even if its a pm, up to you. A good question I am asking now, with these stones being so life-like, reptile and bird alike, is if they were carved out by human hands or if they are petrified. If they are petrified than the stories are true, that some of the animals and beasts turned to stone. If they were carved by people in deep antiquity, than we can only imagine what motivated them to do so and what their experiences were, and that surely they must have interacted with such creatures.

[mickey]

Greetings MarathonTmatt,

Given that the Horned Serpent Legend/Thunderbird "mythology" exists amongst so many Native Nations, the area may have been a very serious place of initiation. It's location and purpose was not known to everyone except those who were the Keepers of Wisdom or Medicine men; yet; elements were coded in 'mythology", essentially petrified there until it came time for those codes to be broken.

mickey

PS: I will sending you a pm. Trust me on this.

[MarathonTmatt]

I had either forgotten about this feature or didn't notice it at first. From one angle, perhaps the original path, there is a stone "ledge" that steps up to the entrance of the lodge. This is the best angle of the entrance IMO which I forgot to note. Pics:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ibGBPoI_WpQ/Vandk24Bx-I/AAAAAAAAHDM/S9lCXHcG6v4/s1600/ech28.jpg

from this angle it pretty much still looks like a large ordinary boulder:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7tWWyIBt2ts/Vandf_HpOHI/AAAAAAAAHDE/VHckImKEwmw/s1600/ech31A.jpg

more:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yzR303j7Pfc/Vand6mGTT3I/AAAAAAAAHDs/9-pVy-YdwU4/s1600/ech7.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1rp8Fl0rTho/Vand1qyfASI/AAAAAAAAHDk/qXzv906si8w/s1600/ech7JA.jpg

a feature on the inside is that the top of the side walls have been worked out into ridges. so, long ago they cut the stone into shapes of the boulder itself:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DsEYXuPiVVE/VaneI-0qchI/AAAAAAAAHEE/LYNJDGCA8iE/s1600/ech29D.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cHu1qxCS1Cg/VaneAiIpVwI/AAAAAAAAHD0/J33tNxChvuY/s1600/ech29A.jpg

a view looking out:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-O15uT_XbsiY/VaneWcmVmBI/AAAAAAAAHEU/GbIBXiv7w3M/s1600/ech30A.jpg

a shaft in the outside back end of the structure:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YUSEVNVQS_s/VanekqL60bI/AAAAAAAAHEk/_ruzL-T-Whg/s1600/ech32.jpg

the lodge:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2bs5hP5yfQw/VanfF5XzyOI/AAAAAAAAHE0/h9QmhqCE4g8/s1600/ech7KB.jpg

of course this is not a stand-alone structure. a few posts up in this thread is another post about this place. there are the several stone altars surrounding the location of the structure, a stone circle at the foot of the structure, and stone cairns on a hillside near the structure.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Info coming through in the last five hours:

- That the sweat lodges and Vision Quests are but a small remnant of the process of initiation that took place amongst the Native Nations.

- Unlike what was depicted in Hollywood, there was hardly ever a renegade/maverick Warrior Brave. He moved with the FULLl spiritual support of his Nation. He drew strength from that. If he was faced with a situation where he had to act without guidance, he would have to make a full report to his elders. To behave in a way that did not reflect his Nation would/could make him outcast And no other Nation would want him.

- Given the short amount of time it takes to make maturity amongst the Native Nations, many of the settlers/colonialists were engaging in mortal combat with large numbers of what we would now view as adolescent children. (EDIT: There was a movie that came out in the late 80's/early 90's glimpsed upon this that featured three adolescents on the run from the law. a key scene was when one of the three took down a helicopter/ plane by shooting the pilot with an arrow. The glimpse was way above everybody's head at the time, mine included. The movie began and ended with running horses.)

FOUND THE MOVIE. It is "War Party"

Full Movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_nfvMS4rOc


mickey

[mickey]

Greetings MarathonTmatt,

You need to simply go there on an auspicious day and feel. If the lodge can handle more than one person take another person with you.

I saw white stone on one of the photos. Is that quartz? If so, you are going to have a real good time! Remember to clean out the flooring of the interior and around the lodge. The area did not always look like that. Doing so is way of honoring the structure and the area.

mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings,

Info coming through in the last five hours:

- That the sweat lodges and Vision Quests are but a small remnant of the process of initiation that took place amongst the Native Nations.

- Unlike what was depicted in Hollywood, there was hardly ever a renegade/maverick Warrior Brave. He moved with the FULLl spiritual support of his Nation. He drew strength from that. If he was faced with a situation where he had to act without guidance, he would have to make a full report to his elders. To behave in a way that did not reflect his Nation would/could make him outcast And no other Nation would want him.

- Given the short amount of time it takes to make maturity amongst the Native Nations, many of the settlers/colonialists were engaging in mortal combat with large numbers of what we would now view as adolescent children. (EDIT: There was a movie that came out in the late 80's/early 90's glimpsed upon this that featured three adolescents on the run from the law. a key scene was when one of the three took down a helicopter/ plane by shooting the pilot with an arrow. The glimpse was way above everybody's head at the time, mine included. The movie began and ended with running horses.)

FOUND THE MOVIE. It is "War Party"

Full Movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_nfvMS4rOc


mickey

Nice! Thanks for sharing the movie. U are definitly spot on about moving with the full spiritual support of the Nation. When you bring up colonists engaging in warfare with young men, what would now be considered adolescent children, of course this is the truth, it had to have been.

Also concerning sweat lodges and vision quests being a remnant of the process of initiation from ancient times. Bingo! I do believe that is what we are looking at with some of these stone structures. Their geographic locality as well as solar alignments involved with the structures is testament to this.

Here are some video clips that i think people will find interesting. From the Indian Legends series that was broadcast on Canadian TV in the 80's.

The story of Glooscap (notice the use of stone structures thru out the video- the sweat lodge, the stone altar, etc.):

https://youtu.be/ho7ITqf920w

"The Winter Wife":

https://youtu.be/bRo3suCqgxA

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings MarathonTmatt,

You need to simply go there on an auspicious day and feel. If the lodge can handle more than one person take another person with you.

I saw white stone on one of the photos. Is that quartz? If so, you are going to have a real good time! Remember to clean out the flooring of the interior and around the lodge. The area did not always look like that. Doing so is way of honoring the structure and the area.

mickey

There is alot of quartz in the area.

Good point about clearing the area- I might even take the initiative to do something about some of those trees! Also I have been building some stone structures on a ledge this summer... maybe I might post some pictures of those in the near future.

I know what you mean about spending the day and just feeling. To be honest I am more into that than recording a site. But researchers, native and non-native alike are in a last ditch effort so to speak to identify and preserve these sites... so much is unprotected and has been destroyed already.

[mickey]

Hi MarathonTmatt,

It is my concern about what will happen to the area that I am cautious about bring forth more info to to this thread. it may need ti be confirmed by an elder; then again, the elders may no longer have this info. If I dropped what I have irresponsibly, you may find yourself in a situation where you nor any other Native person can access the area. I tried to avoid saying that in my communications with you but, there you have it.

If there is an elder you regard highly and is sensitive to the kind info I receive, please contact that person about me.

Do be careful about the trees. They are there for a reason.


mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Hi MarathonTmatt,

It is my concern about what will happen to the area that I am cautious about bring forth more info to to this thread. it may need ti be confirmed by an elder; then again, the elders may no longer have this info. If I dropped what I have irresponsibly, you may find yourself in a situation where you nor any other Native person can access the area. I tried to avoid saying that in my communications with you but, there you have it.

If there is an elder you regard highly and is sensitive to the kind info I receive, please contact that person about me.

Do be careful about the trees. They are there for a reason.


mickey

mickey-

Those are all sensitive points u bring up. Thank you for your concern! There is a re-learning process taking place. The knowledge of these sites was never completely lost, but actually, almost was. Here is a summary of a Resolution proposed by the inter tribal organization United Southern & Eastern Tribes, basically taking into account the whole Eastern Seaboard from Quebec down to Georgia-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_stone_landscape

Thanks for warning about the trees. Of course, you are right. The ones in the front should stay for sure without question, there was a large tree or two in the back of the structure I was concerned about, which I thought may ruin the integrety of the structure (the roots shifting the stone around). But maybe not. Next time I travel to that place I will take a better look- you may be completley right to leave all those trees alone. Stay in touch,

[MarathonTmatt]

Also to clarify something just in case anyone was wondering-

some of the sites i have been to have been documented by researchers before, such as non-native members of the NEARA organization. I am not a member of theirs, and don't plan on it although i have met/ hiked with them. But the point is they have these sites documented in their library- any member of theirs can access the records. Also there are a few good websites and other research about the ceremonial stone landscape already on the internet available to anyone.

the sites that i have found- some remain known only to me (and may be others). others i have worked with the state archaeologist in logging the location of these places. the state archaeologist guy actually manages a list that he shares with USET (United Eastern & Southern Tribes) which is comprised of Tribal Preservation Officers of federally recognized tribes (who in turn also speak up for nations without the "federal" status) throughout the Eastern Seaboard. The sites on this list have no plans to be excavated or anything of the sort- the objective is to recognize the location of these places- hopefully the first step in a preservation process. I have contributed knowledge about dozens of sites in this way such as my experience from the first post on this thread- I should not be the only one to know about some of these places.

as for any additional insight concerning these sites, i stick with the data and research that is already available in the public domain that anybody could research and find for themselves. for instance i shared the vine deloria jr. "the world we used to live in" lecture that is available on Youtube. I used the "Indian Legends" episode that was broadcast on public television about the tradition of Glooscap to point out some uses of stone structures, without directly saying so. This is how I was taught to share this kind of information- if it's already public than it can be used to educate. Otherwise, I don't get into it. I do have a habit though, of using some of my information to hit the nay-sayers between the eyes with some of the facts (for instance many people including alot of archaeologists still don't believe or acknowledge stone structures in this region built by Native people).

[MarathonTmatt]

This is the more well known Mystery Hill (the subject of some tv documentaries and some controversy). Given the wide distribution of structures such as these in the region i would say there is something to this site. sort of reminiscent of lesser known Inca ruins. the earliest white occupant of this site, family name Pattee (1700's), it was written at the time that he was using the old "remaining caves" on his property as storage for his leather/ shoe making. Meaning, the earliest white settler did not build these structures, they were already there ("caves"= simple way of referring to stone chambers.)

This site is along the Merramack River not too far from Lowell & Haverhill MA. Some pics-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-U-iQJPJt0cM/VKvc4xlfCPI/AAAAAAAADmE/-9tWVY6Gf3Q/s1600/cha3C.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iD84SXGnh1o/VKvc-PGsBUI/AAAAAAAADmM/kBKZDX8O4QQ/s1600/ch3A.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-r9zOtx9IUoI/VKvcswqTfsI/AAAAAAAADl0/ND6c9_LNicM/s1600/ch6.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Dakdy5zUmaQ/VKvcawhBRFI/AAAAAAAADlU/--k92-unAzo/s1600/ch5.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-G6La2k_A1ho/VKvn5bbV1XI/AAAAAAAADms/ZRta-GhftGM/s1600/ta2B.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MPGL2E-Ye8g/VKvwCOvskHI/AAAAAAAADp0/agoLbOLDSys/s1600/ora11.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9VbuX8N9Vfo/VKvvjl98QWI/AAAAAAAADo8/B1yL7BqnnCM/s1600/ora7.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pNaN7mEBYIQ/VKvut3JMcuI/AAAAAAAADnc/j-f3uwj3X1k/s1600/ora1B.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ea2PW9mVO2c/VKvv-6iZEuI/AAAAAAAADps/NO8hubM5hMI/s1600/ora10A.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uM6t_mLyEsQ/VKqhzAE9LPI/AAAAAAAADjc/xjs1I99TcKU/s1600/ch4KC.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Xtz2TwH6S-Q/VKqiK6CO3RI/AAAAAAAADkE/JpfIWgzkP2U/s1600/ch4F.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-d_TYkqM_tcc/VKqZ0hAvBKI/AAAAAAAADjE/a2tZPjRnXJY/s1600/ch2K.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-t0HFfKC3tc0/VKqZg3t2H9I/AAAAAAAADic/6r998zzetWA/s1600/ch2G.jpg

Summer Solstice Standing Stone-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0my9vHvIfBs/VKmjL2FeYbI/AAAAAAAADfM/mIVHv7tlz10/s1600/sta10.jpg

more standing stones-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vdWo6jEQvJ0/VKmj6mXz2cI/AAAAAAAADf8/s3TiE5mRZl4/s1600/sta11A.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yrV_eNOQhDU/VKmj_dbS1xI/AAAAAAAADgE/xMGCwCbmA3Q/s1600/sta12.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MaU6D2DNbHo/VKmkGl4tV9I/AAAAAAAADgU/PyHygBUGVKg/s1600/sta13A.jpg

impressive:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ffm_3Y-FC7Q/VKmegbzNCoI/AAAAAAAADdY/pgdRbiq2PGY/s1600/sta2.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2w2DxMLtiXc/VKmej3iprXI/AAAAAAAADdg/YOfgUkIVjBA/s1600/sta2A.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-za8A-iSvoZQ/VKmexjRh3YI/AAAAAAAADd4/xO353WVOTHM/s1600/sta1E.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gE8wOwM8XEQ/VKmfYTojsOI/AAAAAAAADfA/d8UiiCfEJfY/s1600/sta6D.jpg

last but not least the standing stone that is aligned to the north pole star (polaris.) however, it's alignment to the pole star was last lined up and accurate 4,000 years ago. after 4,000 years to the present day it's alignment is not accurate due to the movement of the earth's axis, movements thru space, etc:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_08Y-6uoyX8/VKmesDiHLiI/AAAAAAAADdw/EIT8qDSjAfE/s1600/sta1C.jpg

Manitou god-stone found on site in the museum room:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zYnGlttDa0M/VKmBeKIeHLI/AAAAAAAADco/-e9pIypjqtY/s1600/mu2.jpg

[MarathonTmatt]

I began building up stone-works on a high ledge this summer. It seemed like the natural thing to do, in a place I feel very strongly about. Although I am still on-going building in stone here, much has come to fruition. The other day I was able to erect a 6 foot Standing Stone obelisk which I rolled into place. I put the Standing Stone in this spot because I noticed it was in line with the summer sun-set. Of course we are now moving into winter but that's okay, it is actually in a nice central position. I also built up many other structures and stone enclosures on this ledge.

The 6-foot Standing Stone:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TyxsZmfFfeM/VkJ9c0XiIxI/AAAAAAAAHUo/k8TUgnELM7A/s1600/mg1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fgqyQaTYr9Q/VkJ99R7MNjI/AAAAAAAAHUw/P9zasBNvbJI/s1600/mg1A.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--1oGmF2bD_I/VkJ-A0Jag9I/AAAAAAAAHU4/O5ZvCgqU99k/s1600/mg1C.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i1r__0Y_7k0/VkJ-EVQ_AUI/AAAAAAAAHVA/nosfFykuCD8/s1600/mg1F.jpg

Next is a small tower-shaped cairn with a hollow in the middle I built. I was inspired to make this from older, more ancient cairns in the area that I had seen from my explorations:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yRJ6cJxW1sc/VkJ-KY163eI/AAAAAAAAHVI/vuGjsAhGgb0/s1600/mg2.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rA2NTaDkFqk/VkJ-MyomEyI/AAAAAAAAHVQ/xXZmw10WtCM/s1600/mg2A.jpg

Next is the latest addition (aside from the standing stone) to the site which I am still building up. It is a Spiral Stone Wall Enclosure. A vision-quest seat if you will. It is unjulating (spiraling) but is basically in a "J" or "G" shape. The last pic of it is from above, but the sun was out and I didn't get a good pic of the over-all structure. The first 2 pics are from the almost completed section of it:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RmEZcdJkrEY/VkJ-QhCCZOI/AAAAAAAAHVY/tMmWPSJktb8/s1600/mg3.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XWHFNaqaC60/VkJ-UEo3SyI/AAAAAAAAHVg/BAh1iRzIWhM/s1600/mg3AA.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OPTEJAmrcOQ/VkJ-X-o8ijI/AAAAAAAAHVo/2ZlgRLYxnrc/s1600/mg3B.jpg (u can make out the outline by tracing the black areas)

Next, is a U-shaped stone enclosure I built up between two boulders. I realized I had built up a big enough structure, so I got my tool out and put wooden posts on the 4 sides of the structure, all of which were from tree saplings coming to a "Y" point, in which I inserted leafed tree branches as a roof:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5xvZNq06Wa0/VkJ-dz1gP7I/AAAAAAAAHVw/MQovTjKpFbI/s1600/mg5A.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PgQzY8H9ajo/VkJ-g2UKXsI/AAAAAAAAHV4/ZnqArRFr2QU/s1600/mg5C.jpg

The first structure I built was this enclosure seat:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IBLQE9bNzJ0/VkJ-pxROfGI/AAAAAAAAHWI/dS13Onbk-94/s1600/mg6B.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rLjXvaY9jto/VkJ-s0SYmNI/AAAAAAAAHWQ/pnf43wBb3lM/s1600/mg6D.jpg

Next is the ancient Standing Stone I found lying flat on the ground (you can tell it was pecked out by stone) next to some destructive quarrying, in which case I carried the sacred stone some distance up to the ledge to dignify and re-charge it's strength:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Z6CcxLTJaq4/VkJ-wJG8sqI/AAAAAAAAHWY/lOppk7ZOxCA/s1600/mg7.jpg

Than there is the stone row benches I built around the campfire, which is also in the form of a crescent shaped serpent row:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bYP37kbK0fk/VkJ-0OxJl4I/AAAAAAAAHWg/UoeJwdifv6g/s1600/mg8.jpg (the stone on the right is the serpent's head, and in the background lies the rolled in place 6 foot standing stone before I erected it.)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kgF4oNlhjWo/VkJ-4q1wx_I/AAAAAAAAHWo/onUVBw4zvs4/s1600/mg8A.jpg (the secret to how I erected the six foot standing stone can be seen in this pic- after rolling it into place, almost half of the standing stone, tip end, was hanging off a dip in the ledge, allowing me to manipulate rocks under it. After it was partially propped up, I gathered large rocks around it and used ropes to prop the base of the standing stone up. I achieved a state of relative equilirbrium at the base of the standing stone, and jammed more rocks around the base of the standing stone using my leg muscles, until the stone was standing on it's own accord, and I was able to freely move about and heap more rocks around the base, further securing the standing stone in place.)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ndPgTWBFezU/VkJ-7srkHKI/AAAAAAAAHWw/cHJWDTkhSrc/s1600/mg8B.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lyIyLT1qBcc/VkJ-_Ecf7eI/AAAAAAAAHW4/K-3tBAv2UtA/s1600/mg8D.jpg

Next are the Roofed- Stone Cairn Altars I built. The basic design element was structured after the likeness of a Stone Chamber, but being one man I found myself without the means of building huge stone chambers. These smaller stone altars I built are still very nice though:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-osBDy8ZbT6o/VkJ_Ko4xfXI/AAAAAAAAHXA/0EI8wIPJba4/s1600/mg9AB.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Z-SHGrD9X10/VkJ_Ou_4uBI/AAAAAAAAHXI/CVbp0FNTtUk/s1600/mg10A.jpg (view from the campfire)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Asb_yZyhkdQ/VkJ_Raz_DLI/AAAAAAAAHXQ/p_yXABaeAng/s1600/mg10.jpg

Stone face profile:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9IF0ypEVkfY/VkJ_UeXxhJI/AAAAAAAAHXY/A2-oFUKp3-w/s1600/mg11.jpg

A smaller U-shaped enclosure I built:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PP6Zmte_ASo/VkJ_aMl-_fI/AAAAAAAAHXg/kW73n8rEAhk/s1600/mg12.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MDXv0P2RmjM/VkJ_cV723jI/AAAAAAAAHXo/YdDYu-fsh50/s1600/mg12B.jpg

This is the result of my vision so far. I built everything myself, wearing nothing but boots and gym shorts, not even gloves, to humble myself before the Creator. But than again, what is kung fu if it isn't "a skill acquired through hard work."

[MarathonTmatt]

relating to the last post, on the high ledge where I built the other stoneworks. The Spiral Stone Enclosure I was working on has now been finished. This sits at one of the highest places in the area but the hills are gradual slopes so they are higher elevation than they really seem. Nearby is a nice view of Mt. Wachusett and Mt Monadnock in the far distance, but they can only be seen rarely, at certain times/weather and days. Also a nice over-look of the country in general. It is Magomiskook, the grand view/ great rock place.

The stone enclosure took a while to complete because I ran out of workable material around the ledge (what can I say I did a good job of cleaning up), and had to walk down to another spot to carry up discarded quarried stones back up to the site. Pics:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RUPJVrcsyp4/Vl5Y1WqeGMI/AAAAAAAAHYY/_2dMBqNED5U/s1600/led2JA.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-t7pP2w85LMQ/Vl5Y8pqseyI/AAAAAAAAHYg/80M-xrW6dic/s1600/led2K.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UFq2AfROvQo/Vl5ZGL4ffNI/AAAAAAAAHYo/PAxHwNQ8rUE/s1600/led2IA.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SKKcnRsyhNQ/Vl5ZMwaEW3I/AAAAAAAAHYs/HJTGEwNFUtg/s1600/led2I.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pE2YU5ygh8E/Vl5ZTtTWSkI/AAAAAAAAHYw/xQIO2e9EHLo/s1600/led2H.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-G0Gr-RRvuw4/Vl5Zjzw9r7I/AAAAAAAAHZE/el08_LsBbsY/s1600/led2G.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hnWqMeQJFyU/Vl5Zv68UPFI/AAAAAAAAHZI/cx_uK3NmT7M/s1600/led2E.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-P66ArDmbhV0/Vl5ZzSV3tgI/AAAAAAAAHZM/XAgq6_ZV54c/s1600/led2D.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DMLjpsyVGLI/Vl5Z3VjYgDI/AAAAAAAAHZY/_NFEkUJ26bk/s1600/led2B.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dZ1GbySvghw/Vl5Z6TzbZVI/AAAAAAAAHZc/JfiXwSGWA3U/s1600/led2A.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ErljjvaHg68/Vl5Z8w76TZI/AAAAAAAAHZg/9L_5s3P0SxE/s1600/led2.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FU1NeFXI6oQ/Vl5Z_eCwE1I/AAAAAAAAHZo/xXQj_CT8HII/s1600/led2C.png

Here are some views of a nearby cairn I built up:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-x-nHtPVX7CM/Vl5aCMPkm2I/AAAAAAAAHZ0/0V6eaKSQW2k/s1600/led1.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aqLxRfWZUZw/Vl5aEe6RfbI/AAAAAAAAHZ8/eniaYtVsVQ0/s1600/led1A.png

Since this summer, this is my first attempt at stone-stacking/ masonry (dry-stone stacking w/ available material- also see last post). I had hand-stacking skills from before which came in handy, probably (wood, hay, fresh produce, etc.) I have to say I am very pleased with my efforts so far. Undisturbed, these stone monuments should last a long time. I noticed, too, that I had no real set plan going in to the stacking/ building. I was moved by the spirit in all things. For instance, after assembling a pile of rocks to work with, how I chose to build/ the vision that came to me would probably be different than another person's ideas, as well as even some of the techniques employed to build a structure. However, I did want to stay true to the region's roots/ Native stoneworks traditions. This site is in MA. In the next state over, RI, is a spiral stone enclosure called the Queen's Fort, which is an ancient Narragansett Indian structure. The spiral enclosure I made is much different, but that is where my idea loosely came from for this particular structure.

[MarathonTmatt]

Here is a video link I found on YouTube. The sites are from Massachusetts, Rhode Island & Connecticut. I have never met this researcher who took the photos, but have heard of him from others. His pictures are very clear and he shows everything from rows of stone walls on ledges, to propped boulders, to cairns, stone mounds and rock piles to the larger Stone Chambers. The video is 22 minutes long-

https://youtu.be/XsYGu0dcaSE

This does a good job showing off the kinds of pre-colonial stone structures that are out there in the region. Enjoy!

[MarathonTmatt]

here is a video lecture about Cultural Stone Landscapes of New England presented by a Narragansett tribal preservation officer, followed by a presentation on coastal submerged cultural landscapes in the same region (15,000+ yrs. ago).

YouTube link:

https://youtu.be/tgiIZPOKOqc

[MarathonTmatt]

Wow, somebody finally uploaded this old educational documentary to YouTube. the uploader's name is "cultura". It is titled "Mystery of the Lost Red Paint People." The story begins at the mouth of the Penobscot River in Maine. From there, a greater story unfolds to include the whole North-Eastern Seaboard from New England to Northern Labrador. Cultural artifacts are examined as are stone ruins such as Standing Stones, stone mounds, and stone chambers (especially in the last half of the 2nd part.) Also of significance is the fact of deep sea navigation many thousands of years ago. Here are the YouTube links-

https://youtu.be/nGPfOiX4MKo

https://youtu.be/jbo-FAZSOTM

After watching this documentary, as they get into the stone structures in the last part of the 2nd link, they talk about circumpolar navigation in the deepest of antiquity of our age (9,000 yrs. ago, etc.) They point out that megalith builders on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean (western Europe and Eastern America) seem to have been sea-goers, and not 'farmers.' Interesting. For instance, the old Irish (pre-Roman occupation) have the story that their megalith builders were the "tuatha de dannon") who the Irish describe as a dark-skinned race of people from the west. Well, Ireland is on the West Coast of Europe, and beyond that is the Atlantic. So than who are they talking about? Could it most likely be the Americans, the "Red Paint People" phase (aka Maritime Archaic.) My research continues to confirm this could have been possible. According to standard geology, beyond 5,000 years ago the Atlantic Ocean was more shallow and navigable as it is in our times, but ocean levels rose after violent earthquakes and floods abruptly changed things. These are the same earthquakes and such from 5,000 years ago that separated landmasses such as Martha's Vineyard from main-land Massachusetts for instance. Deep Sea Sonar Soundings have also revealed sunken landmasses along the Atlantic Ridge in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. Anyway, for more about similarly built megaliths on either side of the Atlantic there is a good article written here (for follow-up after watching the above documentary): An article by Richard Thornton from the People Of One Fire, 'Did American Indians Discover Ireland?':

https://peopleofonefire.com/did_american_indians_discover_ireland.html

Unfortunatly I just realized that the full article by Thornton has been lost at least for now. Oh well. The Red Paint People documentary is good anyway and people can still get the basic idea of what remains of Thornton's article. For instance, by pointing out that megaliths in New England and Canada are far older than those found in Ireland/ etc.

[Jimbo]

Interesting stuff, Matt!

[mickey]

Greetings,

Matt,

Thank you for the share.

You had me searching through books before posting.

In one of the annotated research papers published in "Black Jade, The African Presence in The Ancient East", author James E. Brunson successfully connects these people as coming from Libya, a word that referred to the entire continent and not a particular area in Africa. He also found that the term Danaan means "waterfolk". Though the book is rare the paper can be found in "The African Presence in Early Europe". This book was edited by the late Ivan Van Sertima. Check your library and see if it is available and if the references are worth exploring.

mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings,

Matt,

Thank you for the share.

You had me searching through books before posting.

In one of the annotated research papers published in "Black Jade, The African Presence in The Ancient East", author James E. Brunson successfully connects these people as coming from Libya, a word that referred to the entire continent and not a particular area in Africa. He also found that the term Danaan means "waterfolk". Though the book is rare the paper can be found in "The African Presence in Early Europe". This book was edited by the late Ivan Van Sertima. Check your library and see if it is available and if the references are worth exploring.

mickey
Yes!

Thank you for sharing that info, mickey. It seems that this information can come to light- the trail may be overgrown with weeds and shrubs, but is still there for those searching. Yet another good piece of research. It is interesting to note that so many things coincide- for instance the Nile River used to run into the Atlantic in ancient times (just as the Charles River in MA., Merrimack in NH and St. Lawrence in Canada do). Looking at old pottery designs from New England is also interesting- one dominant feature found on pottery are triangular chevron-shaped patterns. Looking at pre-dynastic Egyptian (Badarian Culture) pottery designs shows the same exact designs on the pottery as is found in New England. To get a little OT, archaeologists (I have asked them) think that this pattern has to do with waves, such as ocean waves. On the other hand Wampanoag elders point out it is a pictograph for "awareness" or "alertness." So my interpretation is that these shapes represent "consciousness waves" experienced thru the human spirit, the living waves of the ocean/ planet, etc. Anyway I have a pendent necklace w/ the design, a modern reconstruction.

Also (we have talked about this but maybe for others) it is important to note that the earliest sites featured in this video "Mystery of the Lost Red Paint People" were from 7,500 yrs. ago, which include stone mounds, standing stones, and other stone constructions on the Northeast American Coast. The point I am getting at is that before 5,000 years ago the Atlantic Ocean water levels were much lower. Which made it easier for these people to get around (possibly on both sides of the Atlantic, as the video shows.) Certainly we have the same cultural remains being showcased and these people were deep sea fishers as the video shows. And as the video shows it is interesting that the burials from many thousands of years ago, are oriented towards the Atlantic- obviously very significant. Also although this video only goes back 7,500 yrs. dealing with cultural remains, there have been many digs in New England yielding dates as far back as 9,000 yrs. (such as the "Little League" site in Middleboro, MA. where they discovered the use of Herkimer Diamonds as ceremonial objects/ fetishes.) Also in their book "Manitou" authors Mavor and Dix describe digging around a stone wall in Vermont that went directly down to the bedrock. The green lichen and debris growing on the lower levels of the stone row/ wall could be dated as far back as the end of the last ice age, around 11,000 - 11,500 yrs. ago. It has come to my attention that an asteroid impact could have set off the events of the last ice age 12,000-13,000 yrs. ago. The ancestors coming out of that catastrophe had to start all over again. They were not simply primitives the way academics have pushed things.

Whew. Well thank you for the info on the Thuatha de Dannon/ James E. Brunson research, mickey. That sounds like a good resource for the African presence in ancient Europe. I will have to look into that. One African site of particular interest I found out about is called "Adam's Calendar" in South Africa. It seems to be one of the oldest megalithic sites known in the world so far- Standing Stones used for astronomical observation, very reminiscent (yet older) to sites found in the American N.E., pre-European Europe, etc. I know you already know some of this (such as the Nile), but I figured I would cover some of the bases for others reading along.

[Jimbo]

Thought this might be of interest:

http://etc.ancient.eu/2013/11/21/scota-mother-of-the-scottish-people/

[mickey]

Greetings,

Jimbo,

That was a good share. I knew about Scota and Scotland. I appreciate the new findings.

Matt,

The paper written by James E. Brunson was short. It was a nice look back in time. The book, "The African presence in Early Europe" has its gems. If I remember correctly, only Brunson's submission addresses the research that you are doing.

You mentioned a cataclysmic event that took place 12,000 to 13,000 years ago. Well, the late Chee Soo, the author of "The Tao of Long Life" made mention of a group of people showing up in China around who were over 7 feet tall and dressed in a manner never before seen in China. They were called "The Sons of Reflected Light" and began teaching the best and the brightest their knowledge, part of which included a wide spectrum of health arts, acupuncture being one of them. Chee Soo wrote that the teachings contained in that book is based on the "guidelines and foundations" handed down to the Taoists from these people. Now, many people have called Chee Soo a fraud because of his Tai Chi Chuan; but, he was on the money with this history because DNA research has confirmed that a large group of people did arrive in China @12,000 years ago. The DNA matched people now living in the area of Ethiopia. By the way, the highest level of attainment one can achieve in what is called the Egyptian Mystery System is to become a Son of Light. To add, some have found strong similarities between Tehuti (Thoth), Enoch and Fu Hsi (the first of China's Legendary Five Emperors).

Edit: Chee Soo wrote that he learned Taoist arts from his uncle, Chan Kam Lee.

mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

Greetings,

Jimbo,

That was a good share. I knew about Scota and Scotland. I appreciate the new findings.

Matt,

The paper written by James E. Brunson was short. It was a nice look back in time. The book, "The African presence in Early Europe" has its gems. If I remember correctly, only Brunson's submission addresses the research that you are doing.

You mentioned a cataclysmic event that took place 12,000 to 13,000 years ago. Well, the late Chee Soo, the author of "The Tao of Long Life" made mention of a group of people showing up in China around who were over 7 feet tall and dressed in a manner never before seen in China. They were called "The Sons of Reflected Light" and began teaching the best and the brightest their knowledge, part of which included a wide spectrum of health arts, acupuncture being one of them. Chee Soo wrote that the teachings contained in that book is based on the "guidelines and foundations" handed down to the Taoists from these people. Now, many people have called Chee Soo a fraud because of his Tai Chi Chuan; but, he was on the money with this history because DNA research has confirmed that a large group of people did arrive in China @12,000 years ago. The DNA matched people now living in the area of Ethiopia. By the way, the highest level of attainment one can achieve in what is called the Egyptian Mystery System is to become a Son of Light. To add, some have found strong similarities between Tehuti (Thoth), Enoch and Fu Hsi (the first of China's Legendary Five Emperors).

Edit: Chee Soo wrote that he learned Taoist arts from his uncle, Chan Kam Lee.

mickey

mickey,

What you mentioned about history. "The Sons of Reflected Light." That seems to make sense & I have felt something like this to be the case for a long while now. I have seen stones in New England that 1) looked like an Egyptian Thoth (a large round stone shape that looked like his head profile that was placed as an obvious feature in a stone row) and 2) looked like a Horus stone. This second stone I stood back up in place, not realizing what it was at first (it was laying knocked over next to a knocked over Standing Stone in the shape of an obelisk no less). This "Horus" stone has a full head and body to it- I am blown away at the similarities to Horus this stone is shaped out to be. I do not have a pic of this second one at this time. But, it looks very identical workmanship to a stone found in Australia, from a site called the Gympie Pyramid, a megalithic site that was there before colonists arrived. This stone in Australia is said to be Thoth with a monkey face. And I am saying that there is an identically worked-out stone in New England I came across shaped out as Horus- same size, dimensions, workmanship as the Thoth stone found in Australia. The sites as far as I can tell are "sister" sites spread across the globe (the Gympie Pyramid in Australia also had Standing Stones).

Also, on internet searches. I came across a video that showed a stone bowl shape found in Honduras (I think Honduras- certainly from Central America.) This stone bowl was shaped so someone could either lay their head down in it or wear it across their shoulders as a sort of back-end helmet. There were depressions in the stone that co-related to the acupressure points on the back of the head/ neck. Now, some people may off-handedly disregard such evidence because it is a peg that cannot fit into a round hole. But, seeing what I have seen and witnessed with my own eyes in the part of the world where I live, I cannot so easily dismiss such a thing. And as you know, I have seen things which I have not publicly talked about.

Yup. You have some real good knowledge, mickey. Your post has strengthened my perceptions and convictions about some of these sites- pegs that do not fit so neatly into round holes. I will post some more pictures/ etc. in this thread soon to come relevant to this conversation.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Matt,

I do think you are correct in thinking that the chevron pattern may have had something to do with consciousness. If that is the case, then the Red Paint culture may be places of initiation.

A lot of the archaeologists and historians would prefer that the Nile be viewed as a river that flows into Africa. It actually flows upward toward the delta. I remember the head of the African studies department at BMCC sharing with the class that Africa had advanced civilization when the area known today as Egypt was just a marshland. The Nile would overflow every year and actually built up that area with sediment. That aspect is not often shared because it would redefine what "Proto-Egyptian" means. People think that it refers to Sumerian or some other place off that continent; instead, they should be looking deeper into the interior of Africa.

mickey

[MarathonTmatt]

The Falcon Stones:

These are two stone effigies of falcon birds. One is obviously an adult, the other, a smaller falcon. Around these 2 bird stones is a donation pile of stones (a "ground cairn.") Pictures (sorry, my camera is not the best):

Front view, or "head-on" view of the larger falcon stone. Notice the mane of the bird is prominent, like a head-dress:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-u3MpX2ThrNg/WRe_yyTpK9I/AAAAAAAAIAs/jmYZrOfUHMwWKIqPaN2y0yGWfJC7JifLgCLcB/s1600/pr8a.png

Side view. Note here the features. Well defined beak that sticks out. The eye of the bird, looking much like an "eye of horus" (well, in other words, a falcon's eye), which is also well defined. On the body of the bird, there is a streak of white quartz running down the bird that seperates the wing from the chest/ body. Also about the eye and these other features, I think it is significant that the ancestors felt this was a feature worthy of portraying:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QTHr_63Ie_A/WRe_81eVLgI/AAAAAAAAIAw/GvWbt44NpHkMuwfnGrW6wTQPSZm3SzXxwCLcB/s1600/pr8b.png

Another view. In this picture, the backside of the smaller falcon effigy is in the foreground. The tail of this bird is very well defined, much like a falcon's tail:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-A_L9XFCyHaw/WRfAMMAmTcI/AAAAAAAAIA4/55nDsK2ITyYD9j7Qp9GUDbb2ezf_lakywCLcB/s1600/pr8d.png

Another view here of the larger falcon stone. Also very well defined features from this side profile angle as well:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cMX1si9xfOA/WRfAS5VRmYI/AAAAAAAAIA8/qpydIr9cIHYfZOXvAwc2tMOQwPjuMsrSACLcB/s1600/pr8e%2B%25282%2529.png

Same angle, panning out to show the side-view backsides of both birds. At first glance, the smaller falcon stone looks like it has no detail from this view. On further introspection, one realizes that from this angle the backview of a live smaller/adolescent bird is going to look not so detailed anyway. This is a masterpiece if you have the eye for it, not a Michaelangelo, definitely more abstract, but the artisans here of the ancient past wanted that ethereal-ism:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8YrGP_qawDU/WRfAdabnxaI/AAAAAAAAIBA/q54tTcG9RUgFHn1NAGYmkO-5lkgahNI0QCLcB/s1600/pr8f.png

One last angle showing both birds again, I think this is the only pic I have so far showing the front of the smaller bird:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3p-XBWMeE5A/WRfAoHB9c4I/AAAAAAAAIBE/eh7EAEqbTwYJ1EKD1EzdKS2hsSx8niYfQCLcB/s1600/pr8h%2B%25282%2529.png

For comparison, here is a couple pics of real live falcons:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mzro8kUBrEY/WRfA-sXYrsI/AAAAAAAAIBI/cw0_tcJUHFAUEkq4UkJ1qlUN5pVI5S24QCLcB/s1600/pr8j.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DJXRhtWn6KA/WRfBLhbuJDI/AAAAAAAAIBM/lUvk4r6orswQJbBbNfjxtHdir66ECTSQwCLcB/s1600/pr8k.jpg

An Egyptian falcon:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jWYGbJ1mPgY/WRfBqA0nqLI/AAAAAAAAIBU/A3J38PSl_Zcgb9AXVdNJM-XMA-ksgsVjQCLcB/s1600/horus6.jpg

A quick over-view of the Falcon in world mythology:

"Throughout history, culture and myth, Falcons symbolize superiority, spirit, light, freedom and aspiration. The Falcon is a solar emblem for success, victory and rising above a situation.
Further evidence of its solar influence, the Falcon was symbolic of the rising sun in Egypt. It is also the king of all birds where many gods were shown with the head or body of the Falcon (including Ra)."

Since these stones are the remnants of a (partially) destroyed New England site the idea here is to show that these stones actually exist. The context here is, there was a massive terraced stone site on the side of a hill (while it may not be a "true" pyramid, it is the proto-typical concept of pyramid building at best, which is exciting), now much destroyed, which once included indigenous stone piles, stone mounds, stone walls, terracing (including earthern banks and what looks like a flat "courtyard"), standing stones (solar and celestial alignments), snake effigies and even stone chambers (I have identified a destroyed/ collapsed stone chamber on this hillside, built against a small cliff rock overhang lining up to the summer solstice sun alignment; this structure could have been dis-mantled in colonial times for building material) and sacred wells.

Unfortunatley I am one of the only people who knows about this, having brought it to some other people's attention (other people in the stone site preservation movement.) The problem is, state archaeology has not as yet properly identified these sites, which lets developers destroy these ruins and cultural relics. As my archaeologist contact, Curtiss has said before, there is political and big business motivation not to identify these sites in this state. That is slowly changing, but only a handful of sites (the Upton Stone Chamber, Mystery Hill in NH, some of the sites in the hills around Turner's Falls) have been registered for preservation since 2008 when there are thousands.