Thai Boxing and Hard Qigong

[wiz cool c]

Been doing hard qigong with my teacher for some time now. he lived in the shaolin temple for 7 years. He teaches me hard qigong and shaolin kung fu. He is a great teacher ,love the stuff I learn from him, but he teaches privately in his home. So little to no contact training. Well faith will have it a thai boxing school run by a teacher from Thailand is within a 5 minute walk from my apartment. Signed up three weeks ago and love it. hard qigong and thai boxing just work wonderfully together. I love getting hit ,and hitting targets to test my toughness. Anyone else have this experience?

[wiz cool c]

hello hello hello is there anybody out there ,is anybody in there, is the any one at home. pink Floyd comfortably numb

[Pete]

lol it's a little dead in here right :p where and how do you get hit in thai boxing? sparring or partner drills? never been to a muay thai class but it sounds like good conditioning :D

[Kellen Bassette]

I think Thai Boxing blends very nicely with Gong Fu in general.

[wiz cool c]

lol it's a little dead in here right :p where and how do you get hit in thai boxing? sparring or partner drills? never been to a muay thai class but it sounds like good conditioning :D

Both, the class is structured like this. Running for about ten minutes, then stretching ,then shadow boxing then you go on your own and hit the bags. The teacher will call you out one by one and work the pads with you. This is great body conditioning, those pads are not very soft and you are wailing on them with knees shins elbows. Push ups and sit ups are throw into the mix. And bag drills. And they spar often. Half of the time the sparing is boxing with no kicks, the sparring is somewhat light, but you are getting hit with hooks upper cuts to the body, a bit closer and tighter than most kung fu style sparring I have done.

Yesterday did a round of boxing style sparring with a fit strong beginner. The thaiboxing fighting stance keeping hands high work well for blocks against punches to the face and head. I could feel my ying qi gong arm training is very useful. My arms felt like steel when blocking. The few times I got caught in the stomach,get to test my body training. The previous week when sparring more advanced students and getting punched in my face, get a chance to test my iron head skills;]. Feel it is great supplementary training for the body conditioning that is part of my hard qi gong training.

[wiz cool c]

I think Thai Boxing blends very nicely with Gong Fu in general.





it really is, it is like applied kung fu. I am sure sanda will do the same, but I haven’t had a chance to study sanda.

[Kellen Bassette]

it really is, it is like applied kung fu.

Indeed, that was my impression when I first trained MT. The addition of the more developed Thai clinch game seems seamless from a Gong Fu base.
On the surface, it may appear foreign to some, but even sport MT, (from Thailand,) is very much based on traditional martial arts.
Some may disagree, but I asked a Thai kru about Muay Boran, and he said it is the same as Muay Thai. He told me if you want to fight with the "ancient boxing" techniques, you just train the ones you want to use in the gym, along with your MT basics. While most Thai boxers stick to the fundamentals, you do see fighters who have one or two MB techs they like to surprise people with during fights.

That idea made a pretty big impression on me and since then I have always felt gong fu should be trained in this manner. Use a simplified sanda type base, appropriate to the core of your system and concentrate the majority of training on fundamentals, conditioning, (gong) and actual fighting. Then you will have better understanding to draw more from your system and integrate the more advanced or unorthodox material from a very solid base.

My two cents anyway.

[wiz cool c]

Yeah that is cool. I haven’t even gotten to clinch work yet, forgot about that. I also feel when I open my own school in the future will structure the class a bit like the thai class. In your experience in thaiboxing what was the intensity of the sparring? At this school they spar kind of light, but often and from the start, no knees and elbows. I imagine it is cause they would hurt each other cause they all have tremendous power. But in my opinion it really make a person a calm and cool and posed fighter

[Pete]

Indeed, that was my impression when I first trained MT. The addition of the more developed Thai clinch game seems seamless from a Gong Fu base.
On the surface, it may appear foreign to some, but even sport MT, (from Thailand,) is very much based on traditional martial arts.
Some may disagree, but I asked a Thai kru about Muay Boran, and he said it is the same as Muay Thai. He told me if you want to fight with the "ancient boxing" techniques, you just train the ones you want to use in the gym, along with your MT basics. While most Thai boxers stick to the fundamentals, you do see fighters who have one or two MB techs they like to surprise people with during fights.

That idea made a pretty big impression on me and since then I have always felt gong fu should be trained in this manner. Use a simplified sanda type base, appropriate to the core of your system and concentrate the majority of training on fundamentals, conditioning, (gong) and actual fighting. Then you will have better understanding to draw more from your system and integrate the more advanced or unorthodox material from a very solid base.

My two cents anyway.

nice! agree 10000000000000000% with those words :D i'm trying to do that atm starting with sanda basics...but i haven't trained properly in months >.<

[Kellen Bassette]

In your experience in thaiboxing what was the intensity of the sparring?

The guys I trained with would often have me spar with just boxing, (as you mentioned,) then we would spar with Thai boxing, but it was always much lighter than I was accustomed to. I've also heard this from other folks who trained in Thailand. I think because many fighters fight much more often than in the west, not unusual to fight every couple weeks, they like to keep sparring light, to avoid injuries I assume.
Might be different at different gyms though.

We also spent a lot of time doing just clinch training, which was much more strenuous than the sparring. The clinch was pretty much full power, but the knees and elbows were kept under control...

[Kellen Bassette]

nice! agree 10000000000000000% with those words :D i'm trying to do that atm starting with sanda basics...but i haven't trained properly in months >.<

Get yourself a heavy bag and work your basics everyday, if you got a partner have him hold pads...you stick with that daily and you'll be glad you did!
Time to get yourself back to work again! ;)

[wiz cool c]

The guys I trained with would often have me spar with just boxing, (as you mentioned,) then we would spar with Thai boxing, but it was always much lighter than I was accustomed to. I've also heard this from other folks who trained in Thailand. I think because many fighters fight much more often than in the west, not unusual to fight every couple weeks, they like to keep sparring light, to avoid injuries I assume.
Might be different at different gyms though.

We also spent a lot of time doing just clinch training, which was much more strenuous than the sparring. The clinch was pretty much full power, but the knees and elbows were kept under control...

Good stuff thanks for the input. Have you done any sanda too. Has anyone here studied both? i have only had one short private lesson. How do the two styles differ in training and fighting? Besides the fact that sanda has throws

[Kellen Bassette]

Have you done any sanda too.

Only a class here and there. I have arranged my traditional material in a sanda format and trained for the rules of the sport, but haven't trained in a proper sanda class. I intend to though.

[Pete]

Get yourself a heavy bag and work your basics everyday, if you got a partner have him hold pads...you stick with that daily and you'll be glad you did!
Time to get yourself back to work again! ;)


:D i have one of those free standing bags just been lazy! now nothing really feels "right" when im hitting it...probably that extra flab i've acquired! lol i'm going to see my shifu for a month in china, leaving sunday... hoping this will be the kick up the ass i need :o



Good stuff thanks for the input. Have you done any sanda too. Has anyone here studied both? i have only had one short private lesson. How do the two styles differ in training and fighting? Besides the fact that sanda has throws

i've been interested in MT but never been to a class so couldn't tell you much! i guess it depends on the teacher, when i started sanda we just did basic stance training and nothing else...literally hold the stance for a few minutes then step forward x100000000 step backwards x 100000000 :eek: seemed to go on for weeks lol worth it though! then we moved up to basic jabs then basic straights and onto kicks. when we had a decent understanding of that we started training with pads + full contact sparring :D

[wiz cool c]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HS0usjqQ3g&list=UUGC4xThGxe-kEx1JXUs9TcAContinuing training in hard qi gong/shaolin and Thai boxing as a supplement. Adding a little clip of my training in Thai boxing in china.

[MarathonTmatt]

Nice thread.
MUay Thai is cool. I never took any Muay Thai classes but did learn some techniques when I worked at Thai restaurant, from one of the waitresses husbands. The dude was a nice older guy. I felt it was nothing really "new"; I understood what he showed me from my Kung Fu training, I felt. But it was still good.

Northern Kung Fu Kicking Skill is nothing to scoff at. For instance I notice in your video when you are kicking the bag w/ roundhouse kick, you put your leg down in between kicks and move as if you are "running your opponent down." And nothing wrong with that, to run your opponent down. I'm not trying to brag but can you execute 30 roundhouse kicks on each leg while keeping your hands on guard, with-out putting your foot down at all (just chambering) between low/medium and high on a heavy bag with power, without compromising your stance or moving forward/ backwards... that is good kung fu kicking skill. Also hitting live trees.

I also like some of the Chinese Police/Military drills I learned at a workshop (Gu Xin Fa, retired Chinese trainer), it assumes a San Da fighting stance/ posture (very similar to a Muay Thai on-guard), very to-the-point.

[MarathonTmatt]

Nice thread.
MUay Thai is cool. I never took any Muay Thai classes but did learn some techniques when I worked at Thai restaurant, from one of the waitresses husbands. The dude was a nice older guy. I felt it was nothing really "new"; I understood what he showed me from my Kung Fu training, I felt. But it was still good.

Northern Kung Fu Kicking Skill is nothing to scoff at. For instance I notice in your video when you are kicking the bag w/ roundhouse kick, you put your leg down in between kicks and move as if you are "running your opponent down." And nothing wrong with that, to run your opponent down. I'm not trying to brag but can you execute 30 roundhouse kicks on each leg while keeping your hands on guard, with-out putting your foot down at all (just chambering) between low/medium and high on a heavy bag with power, without compromising your stance or moving forward/ backwards... that is good kung fu kicking skill. Also hitting live trees.

I also like some of the Chinese Police/Military drills I learned at a workshop (Gu Xin Fa, retired Chinese trainer), it assumes a San Da fighting stance/ posture (very similar to a Muay Thai on-guard), very to-the-point.

I guess what I am trying to point out with the roundhouse kicks is commitment. I learned in my traditional long fist class (which includes bag work and sparring) from my teachers, is that you do not want to fully commit all power to just one movement... what if you miss and are countered, you will be in trouble. I am sure you already know this and have the experience, I am just re-iterating. So instead of doing just 1 kick, then 1 kick, then 1 kick, how about training 1, 2, 3, X's 30 kicks, bam, bam, bam, bam, you will be more prepared, but- yes- running the opponent down and moving around like you were is important too, so I have learned! Anyway, both are good training drills.

[Kellen Bassette]

Northern Kung Fu Kicking Skill is nothing to scoff at. For instance I notice in your video when you are kicking the bag w/ roundhouse kick, you put your leg down in between kicks and move as if you are "running your opponent down." And nothing wrong with that, to run your opponent down. I'm not trying to brag but can you execute 30 roundhouse kicks on each leg while keeping your hands on guard, with-out putting your foot down at all (just chambering) between low/medium and high on a heavy bag with power, without compromising your stance or moving forward/ backwards... that is good kung fu kicking skill. Also hitting live trees.


Thai boxing does not rechamber the knee following the kick, it has different mechanics then the snapping style kicks that rechamber.

[wiz cool c]

from my teachers, is that you do not want to fully commit all power to just one movement... what if you miss and are countered, you will be in trouble. I am sure you already know this and have the experience,. you can always follow up with a spinning elbow strike to the face of your opponent;] both style are good,no one is saying one is better than the other

[YouKnowWho]

can you execute 30 roundhouse kicks on each leg while keeping your hands on guard, with-out putting your foot down at all (just chambering) between low/medium and high on a heavy bag with power, without compromising your stance or moving forward/ backwards...
Most of the TCMA use one kick to

- set up another kick,
- set up another punch,
- stop your opponent's attack,
- close in the distance,
- ...

When you kick and if your opponent moves, you have to re-adjust your "rooting leg". You don't have the luxury not to move your "rooting leg" and perform another kick with the same leg and cover the same distance again.

In the following clip, you can see that he just dropped his kicking leg as close to his opponent as he could, and followed with a punch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8u79mnZ3Fc&feature=youtu.be

[-N-]

Northern Kung Fu Kicking Skill is nothing to scoff at. For instance I notice in your video when you are kicking the bag w/ roundhouse kick, you put your leg down in between kicks and move as if you are "running your opponent down." And nothing wrong with that, to run your opponent down. I'm not trying to brag but can you execute 30 roundhouse kicks on each leg while keeping your hands on guard, with-out putting your foot down at all (just chambering) between low/medium and high on a heavy bag with power, without compromising your stance or moving forward/ backwards... that is good kung fu kicking skill. Also hitting live trees.


Most of the TCMA use one kick to

- set up another kick,
- set up another punch,
- stop your opponent's attack,
- close in the distance,
- ...

When you kick and if your opponent moves, you have to re-adjust your "rooting leg". You don't have the luxury not to move your "rooting leg" and perform another kick with the same leg and cover the same distance again.

What John said. Set up, movement, and overrun.

Lately I've moved from kicking the heavybag to kicking an 80 foot tall steel lamp post on the baseball field.

Better than kicking trees, and now a 130lb Title bag flies when I throw round house kicks.

[MarathonTmatt]

you can always follow up with a spinning elbow strike to the face of your opponent;] both style are good,no one is saying one is better than the other

most excellent :) you are right, keep it up & looking good!

[MarathonTmatt]

Most of the TCMA use one kick to

- set up another kick,
- set up another punch,
- stop your opponent's attack,
- close in the distance,
- ...

When you kick and if your opponent moves, you have to re-adjust your "rooting leg". You don't have the luxury not to move your "rooting leg" and perform another kick with the same leg and cover the same distance again.

In the following clip, you can see that he just dropped his kicking leg as close to his opponent as he could, and followed with a punch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8u79mnZ3Fc&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for sharing the clip teacher Wang.
You are right, when I first learned a nice kicking drill from one of my forms, which is a low cross kick followed by a low splitting kick, I was thinking of it mostly as an offensive maneuver, such as simultaneously executing those kicks after an intercept, but after a while one of my teacher's explained the same kicks can also be used to stop/intercept an opponent's attack. Good call.

[MarathonTmatt]

What John said. Set up, movement, and overrun.

Lately I've moved from kicking the heavybag to kicking an 80 foot tall steel lamp post on the baseball field.

Better than kicking trees, and now a 130lb Title bag flies when I throw round house kicks.

Nice., I like the live trees because sometimes they snap and make cool noises when they are penetrated. When I worked at Hannaford Supermarkets, on my lunch break I would go to an empty parking lot behind the building, and I used one of the lamp posts there as a target, I don't think it was steel though, it looked like this-

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQM9cH4wf6tGOuM1YC6743Umm9DHptEi dgsDWO1ljbiX1BvtguS

I have sometimes done arm banging and palm strike (brush knee and push) on a steel post though.

Wow your kicks are as powerful as my Sifu's I am not quite there yet, but I love my leg strength and leg conditioning, especially the way that a proud northern style trains it.

[-N-]

Nice., I like the live trees because sometimes they snap and make cool noises when they are penetrated. When I worked at Hannaford Supermarkets, on my lunch break I would go to an empty parking lot behind the building, and I used one of the lamp posts there as a target, I don't think it was steel though, it looked like this-

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQM9cH4wf6tGOuM1YC6743Umm9DHptEi dgsDWO1ljbiX1BvtguS


This type:

http://www.powerengineersllc.com/fuller%20field1.png

They make a loud ringing sound when you hit them right.

I tried a couple of the regular wood lamp posts, but I could tell they would break by the way they wobbled.

[-N-]

Better than kicking trees, and now a 130lb Title bag flies when I throw round house kicks.

Actually, the school that we teach out of sets up their bags so they drag on the ground. So it can be a little hard to get them to fly.

[YouKnowWho]

It's bettter to kick on a small "life" tree that can be bent than to kick on a

- big "life" tree that can't be bent, or
- "dead" metal pole.

It will be better for your knee joint in the long run.

[-N-]

It's bettter to kick on a small "life" tree that can be bent than to kick on a

- big "life" tree that can't be bent, or
- "dead" metal pole.

It will be better for your knee joint in the long run.

The pole wasn't my first choice, but people don't take kindly to damaging trees in public areas.

Gradually work up to it and don't go full force on the pole. Save that for the heavy bag.

I was surprised at the improvement from switching to the pole. Good chance to work on structure and focus.

For internal kicks... :D

[bigopen]

It pretty much depends what club you find, if it's using the 'Muay Thai' name and is just kickboxing with tiny shorts and different pad positions, if it's Dutch Muay Thai (boxing combos and low kicks), or if it's traditional Muay Thai (lots of clinch, knees, awful punches).

Just bear in mind that if you are training with competitive fighters you will get hit at hard as you hit them.

The subject of hard Qigong is a tricky one and I would suggest you do some deep reading into it, bear in mind that these practices were developed when the risks in society around people were far higher than they are today.

The best thing for the question would be developing confidence through light sparring, working incrementally up to class sparring level. Spend a bit of money on 1 to 1's and when you feel right, start training with the others.

I work alongside a 12 year undefeated Muay Thai champ, and help to bring on young kickboxers as well as training myself, so I hope what I say is valid.

Hope that helps!