Front kick problems

[cturts]

Hey, I'm new to this forum, this is the main reason I wanted to sign up,
I've been training kung fu with a shaolin master for about 8 months,

I'm 6ft 3in and am currently really trying to get my front kicks higher and much more effortless. when the Master kicks, it's totally effortless and he can hold his leg up so high. I can kick quite high straight forward, but trying to get higher my standing leg will bend! not good, but it feels almost totally joined ha, I can't seem to get out of it.

I wondered if this is a problem or just something everyone gets when they need to find more ways of stretching out, I'm very flexible but seem to have hit my limit ha.

Hope you can help
Chris

[GoldenBrain]

If you're kicking for a warm up and flexibility training by doing the walk forward front kick straight up and slapping your foot thing then a straight back leg is fine. If you are training for martial application then the back leg can be bent. If it doesn't bend a little then you won't have any power or a good root which will make it easier for your opponent to pull you off your feet.

Also, some people just aren't ever going to be very flexible. Especially if you start your training later in life. If you're one of those people then I'd suggest not using front kicks higher than sternam level when it really matters such as in a fight. By all means keep training the high kick and working on your flexibility but don't be too surprised if you hit a plateau.

[cturts]

So you would say that it's normal to get to a point where the back leg bends to get it any higher, and that just stretching more and doing that kick more should help?
That's great news :D yeah I'm 23 and I can already hold my body flat against my legs etc so I don't think flexibility should be an issue too soon, was just worried I was broken :p

[bawang]

flexibility isnt that important in traditional kung fu. get iron fist first.

[GoldenBrain]

So you would say that it's normal to get to a point where the back leg bends to get it any higher, and that just stretching more and doing that kick more should help?
That's great news :D yeah I'm 23 and I can already hold my body flat against my legs etc so I don't think flexibility should be an issue too soon, was just worried I was broken :p

Higher or not, the back leg should still be bent a little to provide force generation and still have balance. In time the kick will be higher if that's your goal. I rarely throw high kicks but rather bring their head down in order to provide a finish kick. For example: kick the groin, kick the head as a follow up, or head hunt for a while with my hands and wait for them to duck then kick the head. I NEVER lead with a roundhouse or front kick to the head unless they are noobs and beg for it by keeping their hands down. I expect to be dumped on my ass when leading with a high kick because that's what I'm going to do to them.

Here's a textbook combative front kick except for the hands. I don't teach to drop the hands ever unless throwing a roundhouse, side or spin back kick. In those three cases I block with cloud hands which is one hand high to block the head and one low to block the groin. A good counter to either of those kicks is a simple front or slap kick to the groin, but be ready to follow up because it usually just ****es people off since they are normally wearing a cup in sparring. We allow groin striking in order to learn to defend against it. Anyway, back to the kick below. Notice the back leg is bent.

8897

[GoldenBrain]

flexibility isnt that important in traditional kung fu. get iron fist first.

Truth!!! Iron fist, iron body = GOOD

[GoldenBrain]

Oh yeah, I forgot to say...welcome to the forum! :D

[cturts]

I don't mean for my kicks to be for fighting, I mean for traditional kung fu, my sifu tells me to keep my back leg straight, just a straight kick, we use the push kick too which is what silva is doing in that photo but I want one more like this;


http://www.wuchikungfu.com/class%20intro/images/a6p1-1111111.jpg
can't seem to link to photos on my phone.

I want that kind of kick but if I go any higher than the photo my back leg bends.

[YouKnowWho]

I don't mean for my kicks to be for fighting, I mean for traditional kung fu, ...
The traditional kung fu is for fighting.

The modern Wushu front kick is all wrong. To keep your rooting leg bending is a must.

8902

You can see a big difference from the TCMA front kick in the following clip. Will you be able to tell the difference there?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T_1KOl4mIM&feature=youtu.be

[GoldenBrain]

The traditional kung fu is for fighting.

The modern Wushu front kick is all wrong. To keep your rooting leg bending is a must.


100% correct on all three points.

No offense meant curtis, but the kick in the photo you posted is not good kung fu, it's dancing. It's cool if that's what you want to do, but if that was thrown at me all I'd have to do is lift your foot another few inches and you'd fall over backwards. It's just not practical for martial arts.

Also, a push/thrust kick is a stomping front kick with more of a heal lead. The kick that Silva threw is a ball of foot landing in an upward direction kick which makes it more of a front snap. Actually, when I look at the video it looks a lot like the Han toe kick that YKW posted.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGD0qxRSmjU

[Jimbo]

I don't mean for my kicks to be for fighting, I mean for traditional kung fu, my sifu tells me to keep my back leg straight, just a straight kick, we use the push kick too which is what silva is doing in that photo but I want one more like this;


http://www.wuchikungfu.com/class%20intro/images/a6p1-1111111.jpg
can't seem to link to photos on my phone.

I want that kind of kick but if I go any higher than the photo my back leg bends.

The reason your support knee bends is because that is natural body mechanics. If you were talking about a straight-leg front stretch kick, then it is best to keep the base leg straight as well. But in a front kick that fires from a chambered (bent knee) position, the base knee must have some bend to it.

YKW is right, traditional kung fu IS for fighting. Performance wushu keeps the base leg straight on front kicks. Try to kick a heavy bag, either the bottom of it with your instep like a groin kick, or into the body of the bag w/ball of foot. Either way, you need a slight bend in the support knee. Otherwise your kick will be floaty/lack penetration, and you will fall back.

[Kellen Bassette]

He already said his kicks aren't for fighting, so may as well skip the toe kick and go straight to butterfly twist...

But while we're talking about fighting application, snapping front kicks really shouldn't be too high. They work best to the groin, and are alright to the body, (but I prefer a push kick.) If you want to throw a snapping front kick to the head, it's better to do it as a jumping kick by lifting the opposite leg first, so the groin isn't over exposed.

That's not saying you can't be successful with high toe kicks, of course, it's just less practical.

[Kellen Bassette]

The reason your support knee bends is because that is natural body mechanics. If you were talking about a straight-leg front stretch kick, then it is best to keep the base leg straight as well. But in a front kick that fires from a chambered (bent knee) position, the base knee must have some bend to it.

YKW is right, traditional kung fu IS for fighting. Performance wushu keeps the base leg straight on front kicks. Try to kick a heavy bag, either the bottom of it with your instep like a groin kick, or into the body of the bag w/ball of foot. Either way, you need a slight bend in the support knee. Otherwise your kick will be floaty/lack penetration, and you will fall back.

And probably jack your knee up.

[bawang]

I don't mean for my kicks to be for fighting, I mean for traditional kung fu


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQI1Fvp6rBw

[Neeros]

I don't mean for my kicks to be for fighting, I mean for traditional kung fu, my sifu tells me to keep my back leg straight, just a straight kick, we use the push kick too which is what silva is doing in that photo but I want one more like this;


http://www.wuchikungfu.com/class%20intro/images/a6p1-1111111.jpg
can't seem to link to photos on my phone.

I want that kind of kick but if I go any higher than the photo my back leg bends.

It has been said multiple times now but it must be said again...

Traditional kung fu IS fighting.

[cturts]

My bad haha I meant the Wu Shu as someone said on here, of course, I want to use it for fighting, but I dont want to be the typical kid in the movies who tries to use kung fu for fighting before he's ready ha? So I like to think of it as a study until I have to use it as a fighting application, we don't train heavy bag, just forms.

[Kellen Bassette]

So I like to think of it as a study until I have to use it as a fighting application, we don't train heavy bag, just forms.

Unfortunately, you will never be ready to use it in fighting if you just train forms.

Ancient secret: Skill of Sandbags is most important method of traditional Shaolin Gong Fu. Start training heavy bag now, for the sake of the art. :)

[cturts]

He already said his kicks aren't for fighting, so may as well skip the toe kick and go straight to butterfly twist...


You don't appreciate Wushu? That's exactly what I'm practicing at the moment, toe kick & butterfly twist mania over here.

So anyway, does anyone have any ideas on how I can get my leg higher, or is it just to continue practicing the kicks. Thanks

[Pete]

I don't mean for my kicks to be for fighting, I mean for traditional kung fu



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQI1Fvp6rBw



It has been said multiple times now but it must be said again...

Traditional kung fu IS fighting.


hahahahahahaha ohhh you guys beat me to it...i would go one step further TRADITIONAL KUNG FU IS ABOUT KILLING and not much else



anyway looks like your doing the 5 step form (think thats the name) and as others have said not much use in it going higher than the groin, but maybe your hip flexors would be worth a stretch ? can you do front splits?

edit:


You don't appreciate Wushu?

i think it was more you said you were studying traditional and said your stuff wasn't for fighting :D

[cturts]

anyway looks like your doing the 5 step form (think thats the name) and as others have said not much use in it going higher than the groin, but maybe your hip flexors would be worth a stretch ? can you do front splits?


Thanks buddy, I can almost do the front splits but not all the way there, great idea, I had totally forgotten about these! thanks man. Are there any stretches you would recommend for getting the last bit of the way? I just want to ask people who do it for real rather than watching bad videos on youtube lol.

I didn't mean to kick anything off but it was only my first post here so seemed a little harsh ha, as far as I was concerned Wushu was traditional, but I've now been told that it's not.

I'm here to learn, that's why I signed up :)

[bawang]

theres nothing wrong with what you are training, its just not traditional kung fu.

this is traditional kung fu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gZRo---3cQ

[bawang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMduPeGtTwk

[Kellen Bassette]

You don't appreciate Wushu? That's exactly what I'm practicing at the moment, toe kick & butterfly twist mania over here.


Actually I do appreciate modern wushu. It's fun, challenging and amazing to watch when performed well.

It's just that certain aspects of modern wushu are contrary to the fundamentals of fighting. It's fine if that's what you want to do, or you can do both, so long as you understand the differences. There's just a long history of folks confusing and muddying the two.

As for getting the leg up, keep doing your stretch kicks, train leg strength and do jumping exercises.

[YouKnowWho]

does anyone have any ideas on how I can get my leg higher,...

Besides split on the ground, 3 suggestions here;

1. lock your knee and "swing" your leg over your head and touch the hand above your head.

2. lean your upper body back when you kick.

3. As Kellen Bassette suggested, train your jump front kick with your foot touching the hand above your head.

8930

[cturts]

Perfect! Thanks for your help :)

training right now it's nearly midnight but who cares :)

Thanks again.

[No_Know]

The bent knee in many of the examples seem to be due to a lack of flexibility. The kicks you uses will be lower

than the kicks you practice. But unless you practice higher your forward kicks can be strong but momentum reliant.

This is Kung-Fu, there's no Fix there's Practice. There's training....Front kick- Knee determines height of kick.

Knee before extension. Start stopping the kick before you reach your point of kick's end. If you haven't reached

the end of your kick your knee is still up. Knee supports the foreleg--you can push off the ground for part of it

but the rest of it or the drive comes from the gut to move the thigh. The foot grips or wrestles with the ground

to allow you to direrct the kick foot grips the Earth. This stability goes through the leg regulated by the gut.

Traditional Kung-Fu is a buzzword (buzzphrase)-some might use it for sales. Some for credibility. I think there

might have been a range of what was traditionally done. And people have their reasons. If you want good legs Keep

the support leg straight as you can lead with the knee.

An Aside practice to get improvement in a front kick. Lift the foot from the thigh, Not swinging-lifting by Will.

No bending all legs straight. Torso straight--leg lift Preferablly work-up to 200 each leg morning and evening.

Can be done in twenty-five minutes per session.

No_Know


https://myspace.com/effersynergy/video/squirrel-s-scorpion-strikes-kick/55955547

[MarathonTmatt]

theres nothing wrong with what you are training, its just not traditional kung fu.

this is traditional kung fu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gZRo---3cQ

woo-wee, that's nice long pole! extending heavy poles!!

[MarathonTmatt]

You don't appreciate Wushu? That's exactly what I'm practicing at the moment, toe kick & butterfly twist mania over here.

So anyway, does anyone have any ideas on how I can get my leg higher, or is it just to continue practicing the kicks. Thanks

A lot of people with more experience than me have made great points, man. Might I also add, work on your rooting also. Rooting= leg conditioning. stretching is good, but so is rooting. Root your stances, like Ma Bu, Hengdan Gum Bu, Pu Bu, Xie Bu, Gum Bu, etc. I'm not sure how far along you are in training, but also flow techniques in drills that flow thru different postures, mixing up low/ high, keeping your back straight. Also if you know or have the opportunity to train any push hands or anything like it, take advantage of that b/c that can also help your root.

Also when you drill front kicks, slap kicks, heel kicks, round house kicks, etc., remember that will-power is important. feel the power surge through your body. The day before I ran the Boston Marathon, I hiked up to the summit of a mountain where I could see the boston skyline. I conquered the marathon right then and there. I pointed to the city skyline and I said, "I am coming for you, you are in the grasp of my palm." You need that kind of attitude. Feel the power surge from the soles of your feet, up through your body and skywards (and keep your back straight.) By the way, I am 6 foot 2 inches, maybe even 6'3" like you are. I am unusually flexible for my height (by standard norms).

As Kellen Basette said, get a heavy bag!! bag work= essential training tool. If you do not have a training bag then practice on live trees.

[Pete]

Thanks buddy, I can almost do the front splits but not all the way there, great idea, I had totally forgotten about these! thanks man. Are there any stretches you would recommend for getting the last bit of the way? I just want to ask people who do it for real rather than watching bad videos on youtube lol.

I didn't mean to kick anything off but it was only my first post here so seemed a little harsh ha, as far as I was concerned Wushu was traditional, but I've now been told that it's not.

I'm here to learn, that's why I signed up :)

it's all good, made me laugh at least :p it's good to have another youngish kung fu guy that want's to learn :D

i'm probably at the same point as you on the front splits... try putting a cushion or 2 under your front leg when you do it, i can't say if this works yet but it's what i'm trying for the last few inches

theres another stretch i have no idea what its called though, kind of like a bow stance with rear leg bent , feet facing forwards and you push down on your butt cheek and kinda bounce it...should feel the hip flexor going (i think its that anyway)

where too are you training?

[bawang]

i know this sounds counterintuitive, but if you train for fighting you will look good performing. if you train just for performance you rarely look good. a good wushu performance is a combination of strength, power, grace, dignity, and brutality.

if that deleted video you posted was you, i recommend lifting some weights. it will make your kicks look good.

[Fa Xing]

i know this sounds counterintuitive, but if you train for fighting you will look good performing. if you train just for performance you rarely look good. a good wushu performance is a combination of strength, power, grace, dignity, and brutality.

if that deleted video you posted was you, i recommend lifting some weights. it will make your kicks look good.

I was going to recommend this as well, Curtis. Weight training will aid in developing the strength necessary to perform these high kicks with control which sounds like something you're after. Squats and dead-lifts are your friends in this situation, with lunges (all variations) as accessory exercises to aid in developing strength with mobility. Plus the deadlift (aka the health lift) has been around since people have needed to pick something up from the ground. In fact, there is a Shaolin skill similar to which someone more knowledgeable in Shaolin culture could tell you what it's called (something like 1000 Catty Lift).

Definitely, I want to reiterate the heavy bag, it will help.

[SPJ]

1 Kung fu means many things to many people. To us, it means hard labor and eating bitterness.

Why ?

2 In tai ji and ba ji, every step is a (grinding) stomp. In Ba Ji, it is grinding front sole and stomping heel. In Tai Ji, the other way around.

In long fist, every step is a kick.

It was fun to do them.

Until, you are asked to add weights to your ankles.

3 half of pound, one pound then 3 pounds.

As if they are not grueling enough.

4 At the end of the day, you want flexibility around your hip and knee joints. You also want strength in your gluteal, hamstring etc

5 the hard part is that you do them all over again tomorrow.

Of course you want some breaks (days) in between sessions. So that your joint and muscles may rest and rebuild.

That is Kung (labor) and Fu (time).

:)

[SteveLau]

Having our back leg flexed at the knee when we lauch a front kick is good technique for several reasons that I do not bother to mention here. They are commonly agreed. So what about the original question on to keep the back leg straight. There might be an occasion to justify doing so. But it is rare. For example, when we want to front kick at highest target, without resorting to jump kick.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong