Samuel Kwok Chi-sau [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

slick69

08-07-2014, 06:53 PM

Read article!
http://www.wingchunbrotherhood.com/articles/wise-men-dont-need-to-debate/

What you guys think of the chi-sau? I thought Samuel kwok didn't look so great against a nobody...

BPWT..

08-08-2014, 02:32 AM

What you guys think of the chi-sau? I thought Samuel kwok didn't look so great against a nobody...

I don't really understand this type of Poon Sau. Different from what I train.

Sam Kwok had very poor elbow positioning, IMO, and hence the other guy was routinely able to extend his arm and hit. Kwok also had no bridge control when he was striking, so the other guy could strike him at the same time. Kwok also tried to use Pak Da, but with his Pak coming from under the other guy's arm... so the other guy simple struck him over the top. So no Yat Fook Yee in play.

Plus, Kwok's attacks were mostly cheap shots - over extended and from bad positioning. No distance control from footwork/stepping.

He was smiling and joking, but he looked uncomfortable throughout.

slick69

08-08-2014, 03:42 AM

I don't really understand this type of Poon Sau. Different from what I train.

Sam Kwok had very poor elbow positioning, IMO, and hence the other guy was routinely able to extend his arm and hit. Kwok also had no bridge control when he was striking, so the other guy could strike him at the same time. Kwok also tried to use Pak Da, but with his Pak coming from under the other guy's arm... so the other guy simple struck him over the top. So no Yat Fook Yee in play.

Plus, Kwok's attacks were mostly cheap shots - over extended and from bad positioning. No distance control from footwork/stepping.

He was smiling and joking, but he looked uncomfortable throughout.

So its more about Kwok rather than the other guy?

slick69

08-08-2014, 04:14 AM

Are you the other guy in the video?

I think the other guy did a good deed by showing kwok that his structure, positioning and pressure were absent... I also applaud his patience for repeatedly enduring kwoks cheap shots.

Hah, no not the other guy, just not a fan of these Grand Masters :)
See all the well edited scripted stuff of these so called Grand Masters looking amazing. Then I suddenly see this badly edited clip, which has obviously been hidden and is natural.

BPWT..

08-08-2014, 05:00 AM

So its more about Kwok rather than the other guy?

Well, I focused on Sam Kwok because he's the big name - I don't know anything about the other guy. But the unknown chap (unknown to me), looked better. And also showed far more control when striking. He was almost carefully placing his strikes in, whereas Sam Kwok appeared to be lashing out, hoping to get a hit.

In the UK, Sam Kwok is probably the most well known Wing Chun name. Lots of people teaching in the UK today learned from him, or from people who learned from him.

BPWT..

08-08-2014, 05:01 AM

I wonder when this was filmed?

In the article it says the two met in 2009, so maybe it was filmed then (?).

LFJ

08-08-2014, 05:08 AM

He was almost carefully placing his strikes in, whereas Sam Kwok appeared to be lashing out, hoping to get a hit.

It's basically a silly game of tag. I can't see that this type of chi-sau serves any sort of purpose in fight training.

Btw, welcome back, Beatrice! :) I knew you wouldn't be gone too long.

sanjuro_ronin

08-08-2014, 05:23 AM

One of the many reason I believe Chi sao as is done today and typically is a waste of time.

BPWT..

08-08-2014, 05:25 AM

Btw, welcome back, Beatrice! :) I knew you wouldn't be gone too long.

Just poking my head in, having a quick look around. Seems like everyone is on holiday. :D

Frost

08-08-2014, 06:41 AM

One of the many reason I believe Chi sao as is done today and typically is a waste of time.

unfortunatly the same can be said of the way wing chun and chinese arts in general do the majority of their training

Vajramusti

08-08-2014, 06:51 AM

unfortunatly the same can be said of the way wing chun and chinese arts in general do the majority of their training
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Chi sao varies widely by lineage

slick69

08-08-2014, 06:54 AM

unfortunatly the same can be said of the way wing chun and chinese arts in general do the majority of their training

Well in the article there is sparring as well.
Frost your opinion on that?

sanjuro_ronin

08-08-2014, 07:00 AM

unfortunatly the same can be said of the way wing chun and chinese arts in general do the majority of their training

Its simply a drill, it build sensitivity along the "extended bridge" which allows for faster reactions while fighting with a "connected bridge".
It is NOT a test of skill or fighting ability anymore than "clinch drills" are in Muay Thai.

slick69

08-08-2014, 07:03 AM

Its simply a drill, it build sensitivity along the "extended bridge" which allows for faster reactions while fighting with a "connected bridge".
It is NOT a test of skill or fighting ability anymore than "clinch drills" are in Muay Thai.

So we can't use this to say anything about the skill of GM Sam Kwok?

Frost

08-08-2014, 07:15 AM

Its simply a drill, it build sensitivity along the "extended bridge" which allows for faster reactions while fighting with a "connected bridge".
It is NOT a test of skill or fighting ability anymore than "clinch drills" are in Muay Thai.

But we can show how those clinch drills directly improve and help your clinch fighting drills.....

sanjuro_ronin

08-08-2014, 07:15 AM

So we can't use this to say anything about the skill of GM Sam Kwok?

Not about his actual fighting skill, no.
Personally I do not think you should doing chi sao like that, grabbing wrists and so forth.

sanjuro_ronin

08-08-2014, 07:17 AM

But we can show how those clinch drills directly improve and help your clinch fighting drills.....

Yep and, IMO, chi sao when done correctly ( right way, right reason, etc) can improve your ability to "stick and hit" with an "extended bridge".

kung fu fighter

08-08-2014, 08:40 AM

Sam Kwok had very poor elbow positioning, IMO, and hence the other guy was routinely able to extend his arm and hit. Kwok also had no bridge control when he was striking, so the other guy could strike him at the same time. Kwok also tried to use Pak Da, but with his Pak coming from under the other guy's arm... so the other guy simple struck him over the top. So no Yat Fook Yee in play.

Plus, Kwok's attacks were mostly cheap shots - over extended and from bad positioning. No distance control from footwork/stepping.

He was smiling and joking, but he looked uncomfortable throughout.

I don't think he looks great at any time. Again, look closely...the well known uber "master" of Wing chun immediately reverts to cheap shots and grabbing onto his opponents wrists and forearms when things aren't going his way.

I think the other guy did a good deed by showing kwok that his structure, positioning and pressure were absent... I also applaud his patience for repeatedly enduring kwoks cheap shots.

I completely agree with the abovr posts!

Vajramusti

08-08-2014, 09:19 AM

What you guys think of the chi-sau? I thought Samuel kwok didn't look so great against a nobody...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was unimpressed.

Almost A Ghost

08-08-2014, 10:03 AM

So we can't use this to say anything about the skill of GM Sam Kwok?

Not solely from a small with no context and only being used with the purpose of only trying to promote the author's own skill. Why is it only 1:30? Why is there no sound?

thedreamer7

08-08-2014, 12:06 PM

Not solely from a small with no context and only being used with the purpose of only trying to promote the author's own skill. Why is it only 1:30? Why is there no sound?

I am the author/nobody and it was the promote the WC Brotherhood.
I am doing fine, no need to promote myself.
www.wingchunbrotherhood.com
We only only chi-saued for 1:30 so nothing more to add. Not sure what sound would give.
Any interest in joining?
Nick

GlennR

08-08-2014, 09:06 PM

Read article!
http://www.wingchunbrotherhood.com/articles/wise-men-dont-need-to-debate/

Video 1...... cheap shots from the big guy. Pretty bad really. Actually awful

Video 2. ..... One guy cant fight at all (helmet), Horgan is aggressive ,but boy, he is so open for a left hook its not funny

Jansingsang

08-09-2014, 02:00 AM

Kwok Imho Is and always will be a joke. This is garbage what his perpetrating as Chi sao. which is very low level wristy chase hands not Cog stuff .Cheap shots cause his lost face mentality.. Oh please :D He should stop trying to portray himself as if his Ip man the second coming .(Donnie Yen ) look a like wannabe Take off his gown put on a white Tshirt and go sort out his basic understanding of Ving Tsun Kung fu ;) Guys like this have been getting away with this S**t for years Thank heavens we live in a age of the camera and Internet, were there's no more hiding place for these JOKERS :D

Vajramusti

08-09-2014, 06:05 AM

[QUOTE=GlennR;1275177]Video 1...... cheap shots from the big guy. Pretty bad really. Actually awful

Video 2. ..... One guy cant fight at all (helmet), Horgan is aggressive ,but boy, he is so open
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YUP agree-Sloppy wing chun-ners ae open for well timed lights out left hooks

T.D.O

08-09-2014, 06:43 AM

Was only a minute, the 1st 30 secs repeats its self?? and looks as if there was going to be more then cuts off??

Vajramusti

08-09-2014, 11:36 AM

Was only a minute, the 1st 30 secs repeats its self?? and looks as if there was going to be more then cuts off??
----------------------------------
A different fun chi sao:

http://youtu.be/6qDrtYnvSis

LFJ

08-09-2014, 09:08 PM

----------------------------------
A different fun chi sao:

http://youtu.be/6qDrtYnvSis

Not much different, just faster.

Shadow_warrior8

08-22-2014, 10:57 AM

LFJ

08-22-2014, 12:37 PM

This is not the way Samuel Kwok Chi Sau

I have no idea what is happening here. But people that have trained with him, as you can see from the video, masters have chi sau with him and he does have good skills

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5nxL17RDxg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnHlLiYmVXA

Still arm wrestling slash slap boxing for the purpose of... being able to arm wrestle slash slap box your friends. ;)

kung fu fighter

08-22-2014, 01:06 PM

This is not the way Samuel Kwok Chi Sau

I have no idea what is happening here. But people that have trained with him, as you can see from the video, masters have chi sau with him and he does have good skills

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5nxL17RDxg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnHlLiYmVXA

In these clips his students are demoing/cooperating with him to allow him to show some applications. In the clip in question it seems like it was more in real time with some resistance.

Shadow_warrior8

08-23-2014, 11:36 PM

Still arm wrestling slash slap boxing for the purpose of... being able to arm wrestle slash slap box your friends. ;)

In these clips his students are demoing/cooperating with him to allow him to show some applications. In the clip in question it seems like it was more in real time with some resistance.

One of the videos is GM Ip Ching doing chi sao with him. Its obviously you see what you want to see, say things without seeing the whole picture.

I have trained with many of his students, no one wants to get hit by him and we are all trying to hit him.

I assure you GM Ip Ching grants no quarter when you doing chi sao with him and I return from training with him in June few months back.

But hell, just go to HK or meet Samuel Kwok since he travels 10 out of 12 months. See if all the guys are just arm wrestling, slash slap boxing.

LFJ

08-24-2014, 01:15 AM

Not particularly inclined to seek out that which I find unimpressive or uninteresting. Y'all have fun though.

slick69

08-26-2014, 08:19 AM

One of the videos is GM Ip Ching doing chi sao with him. Its obviously you see what you want to see, say things without seeing the whole picture.

I have trained with many of his students, no one wants to get hit by him and we are all trying to hit him.

I assure you GM Ip Ching grants no quarter when you doing chi sao with him and I return from training with him in June few months back.

But hell, just go to HK or meet Samuel Kwok since he travels 10 out of 12 months. See if all the guys are just arm wrestling, slash slap boxing.

So what is you excuse for the clip in question?

kentchang

08-31-2014, 04:03 PM

So we can't use this to say anything about the skill of GM Sam Kwok?

7 times got hit in the face!

kentchang

09-01-2014, 12:20 PM

hahaha...crazy right!?!?! Especially for a so-called famous WC guy. The problem is actually sad...his structure and elbow positioning are first year student issues. Yet this dude has published books and DVD's and has quite a large following of his very own kool aid drinkers. His only recourse when he meets someone of higher skill is cheap pathetic shots and then retreat quickly out of range...or do what his two teachers do and grab on to their opponents wrists / forearms when the going gets tough. Pathetic.

I just don't see how can Samuel Kwok be a WCK master with such poor demo...

slick69

09-02-2014, 05:52 AM

I just don't see how can Samuel Kwok be a WCK master with such poor demo...

This doesn't take away the fact that he has trained many people or done a good job promoting the art. How do you know you would not struggle with this guy?

kentchang

09-02-2014, 11:40 AM

This doesn't take away the fact that he has trained many people or done a good job promoting the art. How do you know you would not struggle with this guy?

Yes, Samuel Kwok has trained many students, that still would not make him a WCK master with his poor skills. Just like you can't find a real chef in McDonalds even if they serve a million customers in the world.

slick69

09-02-2014, 02:41 PM

Yes, Samuel Kwok has trained many students, that still would not make him a WCK master with his poor skills. Just like you can't find a real chef in McDonalds even if they serve a million customers in the world.
What background do you have to judge Kwok?

slick69

09-02-2014, 02:42 PM

I feel sorry for all those "many people"... I wonder if he trained them all in his fine art of cheap-shots, wrist-grabbing, crappy elbow positioning, poor structure, zero forward pressure, and wide-open gates for all to enter(???). :D
So you would fair better?

hunt1

09-02-2014, 04:33 PM

AHHHHHHH! Enough already.

I hardly ever come here anymore and when I do I see crap like this.

If you like what Sam does great!

If you don't like what he does,great!

There is no Wing Chun Chi Sao standard !

There are no wing chun police!

If you don't like it say so once and leave it be.

Haven't we already seen that just because you think what you do it the best or correct doesn't mean **** when you go against some one else that doesn't do it your way. I refer to the Philip Bayer expert who looked like total crap when in chi sao with some one that didn't buy what he was selling.