5x5 strength program and training

[Mantis9700]

Has anyone tried the 5x5 strength training program with their kungfu training? For those not familiar with the program its consists of the main compound exercises: squat, bench press, deadlift, rows,overhead press. Strength training is a vital part of traditional training. It seems this program wouldn't leave a lot of energy to train kungfu because of the physical demand of the program. I welcome feedback from forum members on their experiences with strength training routines and how it impacts their ability to train kungfu.

[YouKnowWho]

squat, bench press, deadlift, rows,overhead press.

It depends on what skill that you want to "enhance" on. If you want to use your

- firemen's carry to life your 300 lb opponent over your head, those training will be very helpful.
- roundhouse kick to break your opponent's bone, those training may not be that helpful.

You can

1. make your body strong first and then develop your combat skill later.
2. develop your combat skill first and then use the right equipment training to "enhance" your combat skill later.

The 2nd approach may be better. The reason is simple. After all, to be able to develop "combat skill" is still your highest priority. You want to spend your training time right at where you want to. If you want to develop a powerful roundhouse kick, you may need to spend "more" time on your heavy bag than to spend time on your bench pressing.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The 5 x 5 is one of the tired and true ST protocols out there for those that want to built strength and some mass.
It is focuses on the big compound lifts ( Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, etc).

There are two versions of it:
After a warm up of a couple of sets, you do 5 sets of 5 reps with the same weight, when you can do all 5 reps in all 5 sets, you increase the weight ( how much depends on what exercise you are doing but usually 5-10 %).
The other method is you warm up with an increasing amount of weight over the first 2 sets ( doing 5 reps per set) then you do 3 sets of 5 reps with your working weight, increasing weight when you can do 5 reps for all 3 sets.
EX:
Method 1) squat - warm up with 100lbs for 5 reps, 150 lbs for 5 reps, 200 for 5 x 5
Method 2) squat - 5 reps with 100lbs, 5-reps with 150lbs, 3 est of 5 with 200.

The differences?

Method A allows you to push more total weight BUT progress will be slower.
Method B allows for quicker progress BUT you are moving less total weight.

It depends on what your end goals are.

Typically you would use the 5 x 5 method on either every exercise you are doing IF you are doing only a few exercise OR you do it only on the compound lifts and not on the other ones.
EX:
5x5 on squat
3 x 8 on Chins
5 x 5 on bench press

or something like that, again depending on your goals.

[Mantis9700]

thankyou SR for the review/explanation of the 5x5 program. I guess my follow up question would be this...if our focus is on applications and preparing for combat do you think the 5x5 program or any similar strength training program would be too much on the body. Sparring and combat preparation is already taxing on the body. How do you have enough time and more importantly energy to train the other aspects of kungfu(forms, sparring, duilian,kao da, pai da, weapons, heavy bag training, etc) if you are putting your body through a rigorous strength training program. Not trying to complicate this...I swear. LOL

[YouKnowWho]

What's the best way to spend your training time is the main discussion here. MA is 2 persons art. So your 1st priority should be to use

- 2 men drills to "develop" your skill.
- sparring/wrestling to "test" your skill.

Since you won't have training partner 24/7, your 2nd priority is to utilize your solo time and use:

- solo drills to "polish" your skill.
- equipment training to "enhance" your skill.

With this in mind, the amount of time that you can spend on your "equipment training" if you

- have training partner 24/7, you only have 1/4 of your training time.
- don't have training partner 24/7, when you are alone, you only have 1/2 of your training time.

For the "equipment training" time that you have, if you train

1. striking art, you may want to work on your

- heavy bag.
- wall bag,
- punching ball,
- ...

2. grappling art, you may want to work on your

- square bag throwing, bricks twisting, cane bundle twisting to develop your "grip strength".
- long bag, water container twisting, belt cracking to develop your "arm strength".
- single head, long cane bundle, Bowling ball to develop your "leg strength".
- single head, double heads, weight pulley to develop your "body strength".
- ...

You may also want to train your fast spring and long distance running (to run away from flying bullets is useful combat skill). How much "equipment training" time that you have left for the 5x5 strength program? You may still be able to add it in if you can find the time and energy to do it.

[bawang]

It seems this program wouldn't leave a lot of energy to train kungfu because of the physical demand of the program. I welcome feedback from forum members on their experiences with strength training routines and how it impacts their ability to train kungfu.

5x5 is for off season for athletes. competition season they usually lift once a week.

if you have relaxing job you can do it. if you have very stressful job you will stall/injure

[sanjuro_ronin]

thankyou SR for the review/explanation of the 5x5 program. I guess my follow up question would be this...if our focus is on applications and preparing for combat do you think the 5x5 program or any similar strength training program would be too much on the body. Sparring and combat preparation is already taxing on the body. How do you have enough time and more importantly energy to train the other aspects of kungfu(forms, sparring, duilian,kao da, pai da, weapons, heavy bag training, etc) if you are putting your body through a rigorous strength training program. Not trying to complicate this...I swear. LOL

ST ( Strength training) is made up of two types:
Sport specific - Like the stuff John is describing above, strength building activites that are DIRECTLY applicable to combat (in this case).
General strength building- which is what 5X5 is, it builds strength for overall activities ( lifting bags, doing manual work, carrying your kids, moving furniture, etc).
It is obvious why you need to do BOTH I think.

If you are doing sport specific ST when you do your MA then doing a 5 x 5 program 1-2 times per week is enough.
If you do NOT do any ST in your MA training then doing the 5x5 3 times a week is good BUT even just twice is better than not doing it.
EX:
Monday MA
Tuesday ST
Wendesday off day
Thursday MA
Friday ST

Or

Monday MA
Tuesday ST
Wed MA
Thursday MA
Friday ST

and so forth...

[sanjuro_ronin]

5x5 is for off season for athletes. competition season they usually lift once a week.

if you have relaxing job you can do it. if you have very stressful job you will stall/injure

Indeed.
what you do when not working out effects your recover MORE than the actual working out.

Very few people do MA with a high enough intensity that justifies NOT doing some ST on non-MA days.

That said, if your focus is MA and you do enough to truly atx your system AND you have crappy recovery time, then doing ST ONCE a week is enough IF you do it right ( with intensity and a day off after the workout).

[donjitsu2]

Has anyone tried the 5x5 strength training program with their kungfu training? For those not familiar with the program its consists of the main compound exercises: squat, bench press, deadlift, rows,overhead press. Strength training is a vital part of traditional training. It seems this program wouldn't leave a lot of energy to train kungfu because of the physical demand of the program. I welcome feedback from forum members on their experiences with strength training routines and how it impacts their ability to train kungfu.

It depends on what else you're doing as part of your "kung fu training". If all you're doing is form work and maybe a small amount of application work, then you could get away doing a 3 day per week 5x5 program.

If, however, you're working forms, applications, bag or pad work of some sort, and spending quite a bit of time sparring (4+ sessions a week), then 5x5 might be a bit much. If you plan on using your kung fu for fighting, then you have to prioritize the fighting aspects since they are the most important. Strength and conditioning are still important, but you have to be mindful of how much volume you're putting into those activities. You can still make significant strength gains with short lifting sessions 1-2 days a week. Also, you'd still want to focus on the compound lifts like you mentioned.

I'm not saying you should never use a 5x5 type program, but I wouldn't suggest doing so all year. If there are times of the year for you where you aren't doing a lot "fight oriented" training, then that would be the most appropriate time for 5x5.

[SteveLau]

Yep. I largely agree with the words of donjitsu2. There is strength training session in my regular sport exercise regime. It is one session per week mainly aim to build up strength. Also there is one aerobic exercise (running) per week. And at last one kung fu training session per week. There are little strength training exercises in it. Because the kung fu training session comprises of form, sparring, and san sau (fight drills). Of course warm up and cool down are must.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

A stronger athlete is a better athlete. Period.

You should be fine doing the 5x5 three times per week in addition to your martial arts training. The easiest way to know for sure is to try it. If you start feeling over trained, you can still make excellent progress strength training twice per week. The majority of the guys at our gym, including the pros with winning records, lift two to four times per week with no ill effects.

[SteveLau]

I do strength training and MA training sessions separately. I.e. not on the same day. My current physical training program has been in place for years. It includes weekly one strength training session, one aerobic session and one MA session. If I have all the times in the world (that means also energy), I can add one more strength training session per week.

Another point is that I tend to go forward strength our body first if we are not fit for MA training yet.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong