For Those that Would Re-Write Yong Chun History

[dlcox]

Read slowly and ask of yourself honestly.



The origins of Yongchun are lost to history. Clouded and obscured by those who wished to keep hidden the secrets of it’s origin. Whether this be to keep admired and honored ancestors and their families safe from oppression or as a means to legitimize false claims of conception is unknown. In either scenario, improvable, giving researchers only oral legends and ambiguous writings from which to base their suggestive theories and conjectures. Because of the secretive nature clearly outlined documentation on origin does not appear to exist. For charlatans this is an ideal environment in which to catapult themselves to the forefront and capitalize on the desires of the ill informed and misguided.

Yongchun’s origins aside, it’s foundation lies in the esoteric and ambiguous concepts detailed in Asian ideology. Whether these roots be Daoism, Buddhism, Wu Xing, Taiji, Ba Gua, Dian Xue, TCM or etc. is truly unknown. Simply for the fact that if the origins cannot be clearly defined and there is no real substantive evidence to conclusively determine a genetically viable paternal link, how can claims of such links be verified?

Drawing parallels between two things is not conclusive evidence of relation. It is only suggestion and implication, and suggestion along with implication is what entices those with a want to believe to hold onto faith. Suggestion and implication are tools used by knowledgeable and experienced people to entice and direct those that are ignorant of the topic down a path they believe to be the correct one. This is the process of learning, and it is here where the problem lies. Charlatans exploit this gap in the learning curve. This gap exists for the explicit purpose of exploration. Investigation and experience can be a powerful teacher on the path of self discovery. By it’s very nature this gap is neutral and can be easily manipulated by the unscrupulous for their own selfish desires. Charlatans exploit this gap to explain, verify and substantiate their self serving claims to those that are impressionable and misled. All in all, after seeing beyond the illusion, we can only draw parallels that correspond to our own understanding and belief. No certifiable link or absolute justification can be assumed based upon belief and therefore cannot be legitimately applied to any branch of a family tree let alone to the root.

The enigma occurs with us knowing that Yongchun was not created in a vacuum, leading us to speculate, yet ultimately be unable to prove it’s origins, conceptions and theory as a whole no matter how strongly one believes the theory applied is. Individual and group understanding is not a valid measure of truth and is not applicable to universal law. For a hypothesis to be proven it must be tested, especially if it is to disprove or addend an existing theory that is accepted as truth by the general consensus.

Here are 12 basic questions you can ask yourself concerning Yongchun:

1. What are the origins of my line of Yongchun?

2. Can the origin claims be substantiated by verifiable documentation?

3. Does the documentation coincide with the oral tradition?

4. What are the fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?

5. Are they hypothetical or theoretical?

6. What aspects of my line of Yongchun do I hold questionable?

7. Do they hold up under investigation?

8. How is my line of Yongchun comparatively to other branches?

9. What are the similarities what are the differences?

10. Do these parallels coincide with generally accepted tradition?

11. What are the accepted fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?

12. Do I truly understand and comprehend these concepts beyond the given explanation?


If there is but one question that you cannot answer or verify beyond a shadow of a doubt, it is nothing more than personal belief and speculation. Not all traditions, concepts, theory, application, usage or understanding is universal across all branches of Yongchun. There is to date no verifiable and accepted source from which all of Yongchun evolved. Until this can be proven through means of thorough examination of legitimate and verifiable data, it is simply speculation and personal belief. Until that day arrives when all can be proven, those with good intentions as well as charlatans, will continue to exploit this gap, some for personal gain others simply to fill a void in order to create continuity and personal sense. Regardless of the purpose, in the end it is all still simply suggestion and subject to conjecture until it can be proven otherwise

[Hendrik]

Great theories,


1.

However, IMHO, if ones story cannot satisfy the Wck criteria as in the utube. One really doesn't have anything but stories



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



2.

As an example the following is from White Crane Grandmaster Ron,

Do you think this type of art fit into
Wck inner gate center line play with forward pressure and short power criteria ( which is intense line up in the center line)? Certainly I don't think so. And thus, any story doesn't fit the criteria is just another story.


http://youtu.be/vrlnqgfJ2gc

http://youtu.be/3qPyhGcB_yQ










Read slowly and ask of yourself honestly.



The origins of Yongchun are lost to history. Clouded and obscured by those who wished to keep hidden the secrets of it’s origin. Whether this be to keep admired and honored ancestors and their families safe from oppression or as a means to legitimize false claims of conception is unknown. In either scenario, improvable, giving researchers only oral legends and ambiguous writings from which to base their suggestive theories and conjectures. Because of the secretive nature clearly outlined documentation on origin does not appear to exist. For charlatans this is an ideal environment in which to catapult themselves to the forefront and capitalize on the desires of the ill informed and misguided.

Yongchun’s origins aside, it’s foundation lies in the esoteric and ambiguous concepts detailed in Asian ideology. Whether these roots be Daoism, Buddhism, Wu Xing, Taiji, Ba Gua, Dian Xue, TCM or etc. is truly unknown. Simply for the fact that if the origins cannot be clearly defined and there is no real substantive evidence to conclusively determine a genetically viable paternal link, how can claims of such links be verified?

Drawing parallels between two things is not conclusive evidence of relation. It is only suggestion and implication, and suggestion along with implication is what entices those with a want to believe to hold onto faith. Suggestion and implication are tools used by knowledgeable and experienced people to entice and direct those that are ignorant of the topic down a path they believe to be the correct one. This is the process of learning, and it is here where the problem lies. Charlatans exploit this gap in the learning curve. This gap exists for the explicit purpose of exploration. Investigation and experience can be a powerful teacher on the path of self discovery. By it’s very nature this gap is neutral and can be easily manipulated by the unscrupulous for their own selfish desires. Charlatans exploit this gap to explain, verify and substantiate their self serving claims to those that are impressionable and misled. All in all, after seeing beyond the illusion, we can only draw parallels that correspond to our own understanding and belief. No certifiable link or absolute justification can be assumed based upon belief and therefore cannot be legitimately applied to any branch of a family tree let alone to the root.

The enigma occurs with us knowing that Yongchun was not created in a vacuum, leading us to speculate, yet ultimately be unable to prove it’s origins, conceptions and theory as a whole no matter how strongly one believes the theory applied is. Individual and group understanding is not a valid measure of truth and is not applicable to universal law. For a hypothesis to be proven it must be tested, especially if it is to disprove or addend an existing theory that is accepted as truth by the general consensus.

Here are 12 basic questions you can ask yourself concerning Yongchun:

1. What are the origins of my line of Yongchun?

2. Can the origin claims be substantiated by verifiable documentation?

3. Does the documentation coincide with the oral tradition?

4. What are the fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?

5. Are they hypothetical or theoretical?

6. What aspects of my line of Yongchun do I hold questionable?

7. Do they hold up under investigation?

8. How is my line of Yongchun comparatively to other branches?

9. What are the similarities what are the differences?

10. Do these parallels coincide with generally accepted tradition?

11. What are the accepted fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?

12. Do I truly understand and comprehend these concepts beyond the given explanation?


If there is but one question that you cannot answer or verify beyond a shadow of a doubt, it is nothing more than personal belief and speculation. Not all traditions, concepts, theory, application, usage or understanding is universal across all branches of Yongchun. There is to date no verifiable and accepted source from which all of Yongchun evolved. Until this can be proven through means of thorough examination of legitimate and verifiable data, it is simply speculation and personal belief. Until that day arrives when all can be proven, those with good intentions as well as charlatans, will continue to exploit this gap, some for personal gain others simply to fill a void in order to create continuity and personal sense. Regardless of the purpose, in the end it is all still simply suggestion and subject to conjecture until it can be proven otherwise

[GlennR]

Great theories,


1.

However, IMHO, if ones story cannot satisfy the Wck criteria as in the utube. One really doesn't have anything but stories



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



What a load of made up "i wish it was" nonsense.

The original post is spot on and your reply, and videos posted, are the exact thing he is talking about

Its all conjecture



Now, what the name of that Museum???

[PalmStriker]

:) It was this Museum. http://beyondmediaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/rushhour3.gif

[Chun Ki]

As an example the following is from White Crane Grandmaster Ron,


Grandmaster??

Are you grandmaster of Sergio's IWKA?



Just for your information, hundreds of wcners now learning the seven bows and wing chun 1848 every months. So this year alone, will reach a thousand. Thanks for your publicity!

[ccwayne]

Grandmaster??

Are you grandmaster of Sergio's IWKA?

Yes, he is because he teaches Sergio his created YKWC after 2000 with eme. His WCK technology he admitted he created, but he never answer our question on who his emei sifu is. All what he teach rooted by himself only. but no root from emei.

[dlcox]

Hendrik and Others:

The point is being overlooked. Re-read the post and apply the questions to yourselves as well as to one another. If you can't subjectively pose these questions to yourself and answer them in an unbiased fashion, you are simply lying to yourself. Delusion stems from faith in a belief that one wishes to be true. In the grand scheme of things one's personal belief is only applicable to oneself and can be relayed to those that are like-minded and easily manipulated and programmed because they have a similar belief structure. It cannot be held as truth to a larger population based simply on simularities of custom and tradition. If this were true a religion like Christianity would not have so many factions it would be a unified entity.

It does not matter what one believes unless it can definatively be proven. Until evidence and data that can be subjectively examined by certified experts can be verified, it is still simply speculation. It does not matter if the information is true, useful, revoluntionary, inventive, subjective, educational or inspiring. Until it is proven to be original in essence it cannot be claimed as such.

Your personal beliefs are just that, yours. You may find some that concur with your assumptions and ideology but this does'nt mean that what you believe is factual truth, and to make claims of such is paramount to fraud, regardless of intention.

There is truth and then there is everything else. So I ask you how do your claims hold up under scrutiny?

[LFJ]

In Hendrik's video on "Wck Jin" he talks about "borrowing ground force" as if it's a concept unique to White Crane that was the source for Wing Chun "engine" development.

力从地起 "Force rises from the ground" is a common concept in the majority of TCMAs. How does he know it came to Wing Chun through White Crane and not any other system?

Fact is, he is very naive and ignorant of TCMAs in general and has fabricated his own creation myth which he is peddling as the truth.

[Hendrik]

In Hendrik's video on "Wck Jin" he talks about "borrowing ground force" as if it's a concept unique to White Crane that was the source for Wing Chun "engine" development.

力从地起 "Force rises from the ground" is a common concept in the majority of TCMAs. How does he know it came to Wing Chun through White Crane and not any other system?

Fact is, he is very naive and ignorant of TCMAs in general and has fabricated his own creation myth which he is peddling as the truth.



Sorry, it is not the song Shan shao Lin way, that is for sure.



力从地起 "Force rises from the ground" is particular,
there is a book published in Taiwan by many white crane masters describing fujian white crane Jin in details, what I present in the video is the common denominator of these white crane masters' presentation.



With emei and white crane , one develop the inner gate center line Jin accord to Wck center line capture which is now named as "forward pressure" of Wck.

As clear as that.


Just because you are very naive and ignorant and clueless on the topic, don't put yourself in the expert sit. :D



Btw, wcners who has adapted the white crane and emei technology fusion improve their Jin handling atleast double. It is your lost keep thinking song Shang. LOL

[Hendrik]

Yes, he is because he teaches Sergio his created YKWC after 2000 with eme. His WCK technology he admitted he created, but he never answer our question on who his emei sifu is. All what he teach rooted by himself only. but no root from emei.

LoL!

Same old Wayne Yung, you are just jealous because you don't have this wing chun 1848 technology ,
and can't take it that I share to Sergio for free. :D

[LFJ]

Sorry, it is not the song Shan shao Lin way, that is for sure.

Bullsh!t, Hendrik. Who was your teacher of traditional systems from the Songshan region for you to know anything for sure about it? All the systems from there have this concept. All the Chinese internal arts have it. Virtually every TCMA is familiar with this concept. To say it is a concept unique only to White Crane is pure ignorance!

[Minghequan]

Hendrik, Hendrik, Hendrik .... I'm no "Grandmaster" ... I'll leave such stupid claims to one such as you.

Nope I'm just guy doing his best for the integrity of his art not sullying it by writing copious amounts of rubbish, ripping off well known Instructors, taking their information and repackaging it as my own and then lying about other Masters like you did with Sifu Lee Kong.

No Hendrik, I'll leave the absurdity to you as your doing great job of it!

[Minghequan]

Hendrik, earlier you posted a quite pointed accusation in my direction questioning my integrity and my right to White Crane. You then decided to take the cowards way out an removed that aspect of your post but not before I and plenty of others had seen it.

So to answer your attempt at defaming me I attach below just a handful of my relevant qualifications.

I have nothing to hide Hendrik.

Can you now post your own so that we can all know you are a person of honour with nothing to hide?

9127

[dlcox]

Like hungry ghosts you all keep shoveling it in wondering all the while why your belly isn't full or your hunger sated. Your necks are too small and won't allow sustinence to pass yet you continue to feast. The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting different results. The vampire of stupidity has struck once again! Awareness should not be drawn to your stomachs or necks, your focus should be placed on how you became a hungry ghost in the first place. To find the answers to the riddles you seek to understand, you must ask the questions you don't already have answers for.

[Minghequan]

In Hendrik's video on "Wck Jin" he talks about "borrowing ground force" as if it's a concept unique to White Crane that was the source for Wing Chun "engine" development.

力从地起 "Force rises from the ground" is a common concept in the majority of TCMAs. How does he know it came to Wing Chun through White Crane and not any other system?

Fact is, he is very naive and ignorant of TCMAs in general and has fabricated his own creation myth which he is peddling as the truth.

Ground reaction is common to movement not just for Martial artists but for most. Is it unique? Simply no it is not.

[Minghequan]

Lets stop the chest-beating and return to the subject of this thread:


Here are 12 basic questions you can ask yourself concerning Yongchun:

1. What are the origins of my line of Yongchun?

2. Can the origin claims be substantiated by verifiable documentation?

3. Does the documentation coincide with the oral tradition?

4. What are the fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?

5. Are they hypothetical or theoretical?

6. What aspects of my line of Yongchun do I hold questionable?

7. Do they hold up under investigation?

8. How is my line of Yongchun comparatively to other branches?

9. What are the similarities what are the differences?

10. Do these parallels coincide with generally accepted tradition?

11. What are the accepted fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?

12. Do I truly understand and comprehend these concepts beyond the given explanation?


Hendrik care to answer?

[anerlich]

dlcox, I agree with you about the impossibility of determining definitive answers about WC's past.

My lineages' claims regarding history as I first heard them in the 1980s were obviously self-serving propaganda with huge holes and logical flaws that no person capable of critical thinking could possibly hang on to for any length of time.

The recent "historical breakthroughs" are no better and, if anything, less credible and more grandiose.

I fear the past of WC matters little, when all indications from this forum this are that in its future lies only irrelevance, except perhaps as a curiosity, haggled over in aged care facilities by dementia sufferers.

[ccwayne]

LoL!

Same old Wayne Yung, you are just jealous because you don't have this wing chun 1848 technology ,
and can't take it that I share to Sergio for free. :D


Lol

Hahah.... Those are rubbish, and why I need that. hahaha..... not fully loaded under stress. hahaha.... I say rubbish because it iis not practical, just from your fuxking mouth only.

[ccwayne]

Hendrik, I am very very busy and busy to dealing my HK matter. Please come and copy more to this forum. I temporary leave here, and you talk to yourself in this period, about your ykwc, 1848( Oh! you don't use 1850, then I used 1850 lah hahaha...) wck, 2014 forumula one. As my things completed, sure we will join you to help you to promote your emei ykwc in China, in Taiwan, in Hong Kong, but SEA, I think Cho's family and Yik's family are waiting to welcome you back. hahahaha...... All we will be happy.

Remember don't forget eat yourself. hahaha...

[dlcox]

Weiner #1:

You're a liar! My action figure is not a Ken doll dressed up to look like GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip, it's the real thing!

Weiner #2:

Is not! You can't afford a real one you're on the welfare!

Weiner #1:

Not ah, your just jealous that you don't have a real one!

Weiner #2:

Get outta my sandbox and take your crappy home made action figure with you. I don't want to play with you anymore, you've got cooties!
Weiner #2 then buries his GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip in the sandbox.

Later that evening.........

In the middle of the night someone sneaks over to the sandbox digs up the action figure and leaves a "Steamy" suprise in its place.

Later that week......

Weiner #1 shows off his awesome new GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip to all his friends. Weiner #2 hears about this and is very, very curious as to how Weiner #1 suddenly came into the possession of a brand new GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip. Weiner #2 frantically digs in the sandbox for his action figure, only to find that his treasured possession has been replaced by a steaming handful of cack.

Weiner #2 is very, very mad and accuses Weiner #1 of stealing his doll. Weiner #1 denies the accusation and says that it was the same doll that that he seen him with last week. Weiner #1 tells Weiner #2 that his action figure is the real one and then convinces all his friends that Weiner #2 is just a cack handed fool who never owned a real GI Joe action figure with the Kung Fu grip........

Stay tuned for another exciting episode of "As the Sandbox Turns".

Will Barbie testify?

Who left the turd in the sandbox?

Is Ken really a Cobra agent in disguise?

All these answers and more COMING SOON to a sandbox near you!










All pettiness aside. Who took what from whom, what came from where, whats original what is not is irrelevant and speculative if the simple questions I posted earlier cannot be truthfully answered.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I remember a time when Martial Artist actually FOUGHT to prove their points.
Someone would say, "this way is better" or whatever and then they would actually *gasp* FIGHT and prove it !

Shocking, I know...

[LFJ]

I remember a time when Martial Artist actually FOUGHT to prove their points.
Someone would say, "this way is better" or whatever and then they would actually *gasp* FIGHT and prove it !

Shocking, I know...

"Talk is cheap. State your case on Youtube"... :D

[dlcox]

I remember a time when Martial Artist actually FOUGHT to prove their points.
Someone would say, "this way is better" or whatever and then they would actually *gasp* FIGHT and prove it !

Shocking, I know...

That is a bygone era, lost to the ravages of time and technical advances. Today it is more convenient and en vogue to virtually spar over the internet. It's like a video game where you have endless lives.

It's sad to watch the decline of socialization fall from actual contact between two people to electronic interaction.

This whole kerfuffle isn't really about whether Hendrik's theory is viable or not, that is something that can be easily proven or dis-proven through simple hands on testing. It's about his claims on it's origins and his version of Yongchun being the heir to the proverbial throne. He is simply playing on ancestral claims as a means to substantiate the legitimacy and validation of his interpretations of Yongchun concepts. Interestingly enough, many others do the same, they simply won't admit it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That is a bygone era, lost to the ravages of time and technical advances. Today it is more convenient and en vogue to virtually spar over the internet. It's like a video game where you have endless lives.

It's sad to watch the decline of socialization fall from actual contact between two people to electronic interaction.

This whole kerfuffle isn't really about whether Hendrik's theory is viable or not, that is something that can be easily proven or dis-proven through simple hands on testing. It's about his claims on it's origins and his version of Yongchun being the heir to the proverbial throne. He is simply playing on ancestral claims as a means to substantiate the legitimacy and validation of his interpretations of Yongchun concepts. Interestingly enough, many others do the same, they simply won't admit it.

You know what a lineage of a FIGHTING systems means?
Nothing, at least nothing to those that value the actual EFFECTIVENESS of the system.
Most people that have done any serious study into MA know that the actual verifiable history of most MA is simply NOT conclusive or even verifiable ( the exception MAY be the Koryu systems of Japan, at least the ones that actually kept written records).
To make any absolute claim on any TCMA is virtually impossible because Chinese MA were notorious at not only making stuff up BUT at NOT keeping a written trail of anything. Oral tradition in terms of MA is suspect at best and should only be used as a story, not as factual history.

Again, most people that have done any serious AND unbiased research know this and that is why lineage "wars" only matter to those trying to SELL something, usually their own "special and unique" brand of BS.

In the end what matters and what will guarantee the survival of ANY MA system is simply this:
DOES IT WORK.

Period.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Be careful sanjuro_ronin. What you say here is making too much sense an could jeopardize the nonsensicality of this never-ending, on-going, fruitless discussion. :D:D:D

It may even bring down the WC forum !!
LMAO !

You know what I read today?

This:
"Kung Fu isn't just about fighting, but without the fighting, it is not kung fu"

[Vajramusti]

It may even bring down the WC forum !!
LMAO !

You know what I read today?

This:
"Kung Fu isn't just about fighting, but without the fighting, it is not kung fu"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lack of moderation has already helped make the forum irrelevant.
There is wing chun without the forum.
Unrestricted slamming and Hendrik spamming contributed to it's irrelevance.

[Sihing73]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lack of moderation has already helped make the forum irrelevant.

True perhaps, but keep in mind that this is what the majority of those posting here wanted.
I remember when moderation was done far more aggressively but of course many were unhappy.
The choice was given and the majority spoke and thus the forum has become what it is today.

As I have said over the years, this is YOUR forum so if the majority would like a return to a more aggressive moderated forum I am game.
Just let me know, until then it will be business as usual.

[dlcox]

You know what a lineage of a FIGHTING systems means?
Nothing, at least nothing to those that value the actual EFFECTIVENESS of the system.
Most people that have done any serious study into MA know that the actual verifiable history of most MA is simply NOT conclusive or even verifiable ( the exception MAY be the Koryu systems of Japan, at least the ones that actually kept written records).
To make any absolute claim on any TCMA is virtually impossible because Chinese MA were notorious at not only making stuff up BUT at NOT keeping a written trail of anything. Oral tradition in terms of MA is suspect at best and should only be used as a story, not as factual history.

Again, most people that have done any serious AND unbiased research know this and that is why lineage "wars" only matter to those trying to SELL something, usually their own "special and unique" brand of BS.

In the end what matters and what will guarantee the survival of ANY MA system is simply this:
DOES IT WORK.

Period.

Instead of addressing someone who understands this and has made it a point since the OP , convince the others. You make it seem as if I don't understand this enigma. All I've done is simply give the members of the Wing Chun Forum a formula in which to assess the truth and pointed out their childish behavior.

Unfortunately this is a truth:


It's sad to watch the decline of socialization fall from actual contact between two people to electronic interaction.

In today's society the new generation lacks effective socialization skills. Almost all communication is done via text, email, twitter, facebook, instagram etc. It's a safety net that creates a buffer between them and reality. Online they can be whomever they wish, in real life they may not live up to the persona. We as a society are slowly losing a part of the one thing that has made us a society, physical interaction. This is the fault of our generation, not only did we allow it to happen we nurtured it.

The questions I posed are a simple tool to self realization that can be used to judge the quality, understanding and worth of any martial art a person may practice. These have to be answered honestly and without bias or prejudice to oneself in order for it to be realized. Problem is people can't let go and refuse to question a belief that that gives them hope, irregardless of how negatively it may affect their lives. It is simply fear of (insert caveat here) that keeps them from initiating contact and exploration.


To make any absolute claim on any TCMA is virtually impossible because Chinese MA were notorious at not only making stuff up BUT at NOT keeping a written trail of anything. Oral tradition in terms of MA is suspect at best and should only be used as a story, not as factual history.

Again, most people that have done any serious AND unbiased research know this and that is why lineage "wars" only matter to those trying to SELL something, usually their own "special and unique" brand of BS.

Sounds familiar, but again why direct this at me, I'm the one that pointed it out. You clearly understand the dynamics of both your statements and this forum, so what is the issue?

You're the moderator, moderate, you already know what clearly needs to be done. Whats holding you back?

[Vajramusti]

True perhaps, but keep in mind that this is what the majority of those posting here wanted.
I remember when moderation was done far more aggressively but of course many were unhappy.
The choice was given and the majority spoke and thus the forum has become what it is today.

As I have said over the years, this is YOUR forum so if the majority would like a return to a more aggressive moderated forum I am game.
Just let me know, until then it will be business as usual.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Your" forum? "majority"?

People just come and go here - your and majority imply some stable base from which a majority is derived.

PS. Some of the problems are related to the difficulties of extended discussion of complex issues via internet
chats and sound bites. But the lack of moderation enhances the anarchy.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, I am very very busy and busy to dealing my HK matter. Please come and copy more to this forum. I temporary leave here, and you talk to yourself in this period, about your ykwc, 1848( Oh! you don't use 1850, then I used 1850 lah hahaha...) wck, 2014 forumula one.


As my things completed, sure we will join you to help you to promote your emei ykwc in China, in Taiwan, in Hong Kong, but SEA, I think Cho's family and Yik's family are waiting to welcome you back. hahahaha...... All we will be happy.

Remember don't forget eat yourself. hahaha...



Wayne,


1.

Thanks but no thanks!

We have no common ground and here on no communication at all is needed. This is my last post. You walk your path I walk mine.

I don't need your help, and remember I have make public announcement to isolate from your information, you, your mun.
Robert Chu , Allan Orr, Sergio, Jim , Phillip , Navin, Derloi , ........ and many many senior Wck sifus
from different lineages around the world can do our job to sharing a part of facts of 1848 Wck . ( which you don't have anyway.)






2.

As in this Hong Kong public post ,
What kind of person are you scolding Law sifu the head of SCWC mun in public on some ones birthday party? Where is your moduk? Your respect to your Mun?

From all the Hong Kong open forum and Facebook post, It doesn't seem like you are the spokesman of the SCWC Mun which you are placing your self either.



武術各介朋友，看圖就知翁生當曰做講師，今天他和一衆師兄弟無說話講了，本人同羅師意見不同，但同一衆過去 同門有見面电話聯系，翁生没有了，問翁生鄭宝林父生日為何拍抬駡羅師當日武林好多人見

(Wayne hit the table and scold his SCWC sifu in pubic at a birthday party, witness by ( in front of ) many Hong Kong Chinese martial artists.)


In case you didn't read
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?68050-Jim-Roseland-Hendrik-Santos-Don-t-twist-any-wordings-about-me-become-yours&p=1276871#post1276871






3.
Yik kam lineage and Cho family is none of your business,
Since moths ago, your intention is to destroy yik kam lineage and cho family due to you cannot leverage our 1848 Wck preservation.

We in Yik kam and Cho family is smart enough to not take your trap to destroy our inheritance from Yik kam and Cho ancestors. We don't have to like each other's, we might not be all agree , but no one will destroy our ancestors' inheritance which is our treasure you attemp to destroy.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Instead of addressing someone who understands this and has made it a point since the OP , convince the others. You make it seem as if I don't understand this enigma. All I've done is simply give the members of the Wing Chun Forum a formula in which to assess the truth and pointed out their childish behavior.

Unfortunately this is a truth:



In today's society the new generation lacks effective socialization skills. Almost all communication is done via text, email, twitter, facebook, instagram etc. It's a safety net that creates a buffer between them and reality. Online they can be whomever they wish, in real life they may not live up to the persona. We as a society are slowly losing a part of the one thing that has made us a society, physical interaction. This is the fault of our generation, not only did we allow it to happen we nurtured it.

The questions I posed are a simple tool to self realization that can be used to judge the quality, understanding and worth of any martial art a person may practice. These have to be answered honestly and without bias or prejudice to oneself in order for it to be realized. Problem is people can't let go and refuse to question a belief that that gives them hope, irregardless of how negatively it may affect their lives. It is simply fear of (insert caveat here) that keeps them from initiating contact and exploration.



Sounds familiar, but again why direct this at me, I'm the one that pointed it out. You clearly understand the dynamics of both your statements and this forum, so what is the issue?

You're the moderator, moderate, you already know what clearly needs to be done. Whats holding you back?
My comments we made as a GENERAL remark towards those that decide to waste time with lineage issues.
Not YOU in particular.

As for moderation:
I notice that many people look at moderation with the same view as some people look at why God doesn't exist because suffering exists ( in the sense that they believe that if God existed He would/should not allow suffering even if that means no free will).
They want moderation of OTHERS, not themselves.
When they don't like what other do or say they ask for MORE MODERATION !
BUT if this moderation is applied towards them they complain that we are ruining the forum !
I am NOT saying that is the case with YOU, I am simply commenting on the view that we don't moderate this forum enough.

The reality is that we shouldn't HAVE to and they everyone here should be mature enough to call BS on BS and each party proves their point the the best of their ability and then let "the masses" decide.
Unfortunately it doesn't happen here like it should and perhaps YOU guys need to ask YOURSELVES why.

[dlcox]

My comments we made as a GENERAL remark towards those that decide to waste time with lineage issues.
Not YOU in particular.

As for moderation:
I notice that many people look at moderation with the same view as some people look at why God doesn't exist because suffering exists ( in the sense that they believe that if God existed He would/should not allow suffering even if that means no free will).
They want moderation of OTHERS, not themselves.
When they don't like what other do or say they ask for MORE MODERATION !
BUT if this moderation is applied towards them they complain that we are ruining the forum !
I am NOT saying that is the case with YOU, I am simply commenting on the view that we don't moderate this forum enough.

The reality is that we shouldn't HAVE to and they everyone here should be mature enough to call BS on BS and each party proves their point the the best of their ability and then let "the masses" decide.
Unfortunately it doesn't happen here like it should and perhaps YOU guys need to ask YOURSELVES why.

I sincerely agree with your deduction.

They want moderation of OTHERS, not themselves.

This is such a truthful statement and in my personal opinion, falls to each individuals failure to let go of their personal prejudices. Belief without faith is little more than wishful thinking. Whether this is a result of pride, ignorance, comfort etc. is not really made known.
Problem is people can't let go and refuse to question a belief that that gives them hope, irregardless of how negatively it may affect their lives. It is simply fear of (insert caveat here) that keeps them from initiating contact and exploration.

The reality is that we shouldn't HAVE to and they everyone here should be mature enough to call BS on BS and each party proves their point the the best of their ability and then let "the masses" decide.

This stems from lack of intelligence in effective communication skills. Emotionally driven responses instead of calculated and thought out ones.


If you want the forum to change, come up with some simple guidelines of etiquette, post them at the top and enforce them accordingly, problem solved. Only the moderators have this power to exercise this. Be the change you wish to see. As a moderator you are the Adult do not let the spoiled Children dictate how things should be done, it's really not their decision.

[Minghequan]

As I have said over the years, this is YOUR forum so if the majority would like a return to a more aggressive moderated forum I am game.
Just let me know, until then it will be business as usual.

Okay I am asking for moderation of the on-going and non stop spamming on these forums by Hendrik Santo.

I am asking for moderation of the on-going and non stop self serving superiority on these forums by Hendrik Santo.

I am asking for moderation of the on-going and non stop failure to answer honest questions on these forums by Hendrik Santo.

Lastly, I m asking for the same rules applied to Hendrik Santo to be applied to all especially myself as i m sure I hve gone too fr on more than one occasion.

I am happy to have anything I write here moderated if needed and am happy to accept such moderation.

[Chun Ki]

lighten up ;)



Here are 12 basic questions you can ask yourself concerning Yongchun:

1. What are the origins of my line of Yongchun?

Hendrik is my origin, he developed Yongchun technology. I learn technology from Hendrik's youtube channnel, noodledelight.



2. Can the origin claims be substantiated by verifiable documentation?

Yes see GM Fu's signature on that piece of paper with ancient simplified Chinese characters. this is great for re-writing history.



3. Does the documentation coincide with the oral tradition?

Of course, my internet teacher Hendrik's oral tradition is all over the internet, him and Al Gore, the origin of the internet.



4. What are the fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?

In Hendrik yongchun we forge and fabricate evidence. To make it a fact we get non-yongchun old men to sign our fabricated evidence.



5. Are they hypothetical or theoretical?

no its internet theatrics at end of the day, except we dont want the sun to ever set on Hendrik's emei yongchun.



6. What aspects of my line of Yongchun do I hold questionable?

what was that museum address?



7. Do they hold up under investigation?

yes, the key is to lol your way out of questions.



8. How is my line of Yongchun comparatively to other branches?

Its only comparable to Kenneth Lin's fabricated HKB. we use the same fabricated smoke tactics.



9. What are the similarities what are the differences?

Similarities are emei yongchun and hkb yongchun use non-yongchun old men to sign papers.
differences are Sergio hasnt dumped IWKA GM Hendrik yet. Sergio already dumped X-IWKA GM Kenneth.



10. Do these parallels coincide with generally accepted tradition?

yes lying is a tradition of Hendrik's Emei Yongchun technology.



11. What are the accepted fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?

as stated before... fabrication and get non-yongchun old men to sign ancient papers.



12. Do I truly understand and comprehend these concepts beyond the given explanation?

yes keep repeating lies for decades, the goal is to re-write history right? thats what your asking, "for those that would re-write Yong Chun history".

[dlcox]

lighten up ;)


Hendrik is my origin, he developed Yongchun technology. I learn technology from Hendrik's youtube channnel, noodledelight.


Yes see GM Fu's signature on that piece of paper with ancient simplified Chinese characters. this is great for re-writing history.


Of course, my internet teacher Hendrik's oral tradition is all over the internet, him and Al Gore, the origin of the internet.


In Hendrik yongchun we forge and fabricate evidence. To make it a fact we get non-yongchun old men to sign our fabricated evidence.


no its internet theatrics at end of the day, except we dont want the sun to ever set on Hendrik's emei yongchun.


what was that museum address?


yes, the key is to lol your way out of questions.


Its only comparable to Kenneth Lin's fabricated HKB. we use the same fabricated smoke tactics.


Similarities are emei yongchun and hkb yongchun use non-yongchun old men to sign papers.
differences are Sergio hasnt dumped IWKA GM Hendrik yet. Sergio already dumped X-IWKA GM Kenneth.


yes lying is a tradition of Hendrik's Emei Yongchun technology.


as stated before... fabrication and get non-yongchun old men to sign ancient papers.


yes keep repeating lies for decades, the goal is to re-write history right? thats what your asking, "for those that would re-write Yong Chun history".

Very good. Now since you are so good at answering for others how about applying those same questions to yourself.

Betcha can't provide proof for half of the answers you give, so lighten up. ;)

[Sihing73]

Okay I am asking for moderation of the on-going and non stop spamming on these forums by Hendrik Santo.

I am asking for moderation of the on-going and non stop self serving superiority on these forums by Hendrik Santo.

I am asking for moderation of the on-going and non stop failure to answer honest questions on these forums by Hendrik Santo.

Lastly, I m asking for the same rules applied to Hendrik Santo to be applied to all especially myself as i m sure I hve gone too fr on more than one occasion.

I am happy to have anything I write here moderated if needed and am happy to accept such moderation.

You are one person, if a number of others request moderation then we can approach doing so.
Unfortunately, if there are say, 30 regular members who post and only 3-5 ask for moderation that does not represent a majority.

Having a life outside of this forum it would be far simpler to simply moderate everything and require all posts to be approved prior to being made public on this forum. his what you want? Keep in mind that the approval process would be on the moderators time and not yours.

[Happy Tiger]

all i can do is>sigh<

[Minghequan]

Sihing73:

You are one person, if a number of others request moderation then we can approach doing so.
Unfortunately, if there are say, 30 regular members who post and only 3-5 ask for moderation that does not represent a majority.

Having a life outside of this forum it would be far simpler to simply moderate everything and require all posts to be approved prior to being made public on this forum. his what you want? Keep in mind that the approval process would be on the moderators time and not yours.

I fully understand where you are coming from. Moderation could be a time consuming and more than often thankless job!

I don't agree with you needing a set percentage. I think the concept of moderation should be is good for the Martial Arts, KFO, the Forum, and the Individuals in that it they should be held in good light regardless of "numbers" ... just as it would be in any good training hall or school.

Having a life outside is big thing. I agree.

I'd be happy to help out where I can as s Moderator if giving the honour and yes believe it or not I would treat it as a honour and a matter of Wude and would strive to be fair to all and to curb the negative including that of myself.

Perhaps having a few moderators would also ease the burden. If one is not up to it they can always be removed as a moderator. Perhaps consider this and give it a try?

[ccwayne]

Wayne,
1.

Thanks but no thanks!

We have no common ground and here on no communication at all is needed. This is my last post. You walk your path I walk mine.

I don't need your help, and remember I have make public announcement to isolate from your information, you, your mun.
Robert Chu , Allan Orr, Sergio, Jim , Phillip , Navin, Derloi , ........ and many many senior Wck sifus
from different lineages around the world can do our job to sharing a part of facts of 1848 Wck . ( which you don't have anyway.)
2.

As in this Hong Kong public post ,
What kind of person are you scolding Law sifu the head of SCWC mun in public on some ones birthday party? Where is your moduk? Your respect to your Mun?

From all the Hong Kong open forum and Facebook post, It doesn't seem like you are the spokesman of the SCWC Mun which you are placing your self either.



武術各介朋友，看圖就知翁生當曰做講師，今天他和一衆師兄弟無說話講了，本人同羅師意見不同，但同一衆過去 同門有見面电話聯系，翁生没有了，問翁生鄭宝林父生日為何拍抬駡羅師當日武林好多人見

(Wayne hit the table and scold his SCWC sifu in pubic at a birthday party, witness by ( in front of ) many Hong Kong Chinese martial artists.)


In case you didn't read
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?68050-Jim-Roseland-Hendrik-Santos-Don-t-twist-any-wordings-about-me-become-yours&p=1276871#post1276871






3.
Yik kam lineage and Cho family is none of your business,
Since moths ago, your intention is to destroy yik kam lineage and cho family due to you cannot leverage our 1848 Wck preservation.

We in Yik kam and Cho family is smart enough to not take your trap to destroy our inheritance from Yik kam and Cho ancestors. We don't have to like each other's, we might not be all agree , but no one will destroy our ancestors' inheritance which is our treasure you attemp to destroy.


Haha... Hendrik, this can show how low level of your research is. Someone post whatever he like to post in the facebook without any proof, you bring it here. Like the emei, as you walked around in Shaghai street, a book collector sold you emei kung fu book, and you really believe it and paid money, and every day to train with this book without any proofing. Then you mix it up with your sifu wck to create your ykwc. .....

I post above here, then someone take it back to the facebook, and saying Hendrik ......
Come on, Hendrik ...... This is exactly what you behave. hahaha...

People and I here ask you what the museum where store the original, you cannot answer, because all emei story, even now my stories you make yourself. You are working alone, no sexeul life no friends, staying home with your ipad for your today emei ykwc.

You look like a child, "I have 1848 wck technology, and you don't have it". hahha... What means! I have my full SCWC system, and why I need yours. YOu are still being challenged where the what you said emei book is. You can never show that, because it doesn't exist.

You modified your sifu 's kuit to make it a bit emei like, then bring it out to argue with Cho's family and Yik's family, theirs are not the original, but you owned it. How come. You talked to me you followed your sifu in 1973 and left sifu in 1976 and your sifu died in 1984. How much you learnt from your sifu's wck.

Today, he said to the world that he ownd the original becaue it is emei like, no one, even Cho's family and Yik's family don't have it. Really ridiculously.

He is really a sick man. He like a famous Kowloon king in Hong Kong. He said he is king of Kowloon since born and he spent his whole life writing his relationship with the
king of the Qing dynasty in EVERY CORNER IN THE STREETS OF HONG KONG.

Same situation on the emei like wck here. He can modify SCWC kuit to suit his emei, he can modify his sifu kuit to fit emei, then it is already emei wck because there is emei enginee there. Other wcks no emei engines. why he convinced people to take the emei enginee, Answer is the Kowloon King.

My interest on the ebook is mainly on the history only. I have my full SCWC system and it is really work and functioning properly. Why I need to learn emei or YKT or others. Why he need to learn emei, copy from others to make his YKT because his wck from his sifu is not complete loh! Then he came to me because he knows scwc is from splitting of one long set. STaying with me for few years lol.

Who is your emei sifu ? People like to know. Where you learn from. Is really from your book getting on the street. YuLoiSanCheung如來神掌秘級, you can get it in a lot of old books collection stores. HK$10.00 only. How much you paid to the street book stall ? I think at that time should me RMB 5.00 only. Then you went to learn it till today. Hahahahahaha......

As I said Ku is 76 now, trained in Cho's wck way still very active and travel in HK, China, Malaysia and Singapore. My sifu 86 trained with SCWC wck for his whole lifem still very active. All you can see...

As I mentioned here before, we cannot just follow the kuit to train ourselves WITHOUR ANY GUIDIANCE. Sifu is in a very important role. No sifu means what ?

I am not redirecting, coming back to the above what I said rumour.

(Wayne hit the table and scold his SCWC sifu in pubic at a birthday party, witness by ( in front of ) many Hong Kong Chinese martial artists.)

Who are the witness ? Can you or he tell me. Many HK Chnese martial artists, who ? How many ? One or Two or thousands ? Now Mok and his wife can say whatever he like to say about me. If you are fair enough, not only bringing their rumours out here, also with my announcements and how their helpers said apologies to me, then let more poeple here to judge how Wayne Yung is. You are happy to have someone blaming Wayne in HK, then bring it out here WITHOUT ANY INVESTIGATION. Like emei book on the street store RMB$5.00, then make your own dream stroy WITHOUT DETAIL THINKING HOW TO PROMOTE, then bring it out you own the TRUE WCK, even Cho's family decending, theirs is FAKE.. Are all we here idiots ?

I have more to fuxk you, fake buddhist off. YOu never said sorry on your public announcment on your quitting to me. You are not my mun people , how come you make a public announcement. You should be aware your culture is not mine, You touched the most sensitive part in Chinese culture. I also like to make a public announcement I don't have any relationship with yours .... and yours .... not my ...... I never touch ... No more relation, please don't ask yours./..not come to me again. I need to keep away from your..... How do you think ? hahaha....

I said again, Fuxking Hendrik, why you bring me up here again. YOu play your emei game here, I have no eyes see how you cheat Sergio, and the people around. As I told Sunny, Sergio's sifu, over an hour in phone, how my point on your wck. Really good ! I don't thnk so. All his wck, today we can see is his custom-made to suit his emei.

Hendrik, don't be EASILY believe anything you find, need to proof BEFORE to show up to the public.

Finally, Your problem with Ku, you made it, go to ask GM Ku, C.Y. and Carlos. You were not Cho's family members. Have you read their declaration in their facebook group. Hahaha... Where Cho's family relationship with me, of course good. We are already lining up internally without any public announcment. I think you don't know it. Please go to ask GM Ku, C.Y. or Carlos.

[ccwayne]

Hendrik, open your fuxing eyes to read my yesterday postings and sharings around the world on faccebook. Where you get yours, just in his fb wall only. Why he does not show it to public ? hahaha.... because it is not true. lol.


Wayne Yung
22小時前 · 已編輯
蛇鶴詠春門跟莫偉強先生已毫無關系，莫生實自去年2013年2月2日已不是本門弟子，是他自已在當天發公開 聲明在其面書上離開家師，與任何人無關。

數年前他邀請本人 Like 其功夫會，所以其發放信息自然地在本人面書出現，並非有人故意挑釁。莫生若不認識這面書功能，可向人作禮貌 式請教。

2009 年 1 月 8 日 蛇鶴詠春門正式成立，並向政府登記註冊，當天並無甚麼多武林同道觀禮，只有陳秀中宗師送贈一對旗於本門，及 新武俠雜誌現場採訪及觀禮，並把蛇鶴詠春門正式成立信息發放。家師當天把帥旗交於本人，正式由第五傳轉給第 六傳傳承，跟著是文化交流。
當天莫師生亦全程在場觀禮，其怪他今天說無此事，晚上還有在厚德酒樓作宴，莫生還請了梁國華先生到來，李錦 榮師傅亦有到賀。

本人自2009年正式投入對本門推廣工作，一向低調，在港已獲政府非物質文化遺產，電影蛇鶴詠春顧問，每年 功夫文化交流於美國MBA課程，並在教導學生，新武俠寫作，AM730武健講場，研究本門功夫歷史等，去年 出了本紅船電子書，向世界推廣蛇鶴詠春。

莫生自2004年11月24日拜師入本門，其說其因帶技關係，以單腳跪地拜師，因天資聰敏，在2005年在 外教授蛇鶴詠春至今，但今天感慨地其帶技徒兒以雙腳跪地拜入蛇鶴詠春門，奇妙奇妙！在儀式中，並無蛇鶴詠春 同門，因他早已離開，只有其其他派別師兄弟，但莫生稱其師兄弟，但蛇鶴的，過往他只稱同門，是家師教導不好 ，還是別的原因，其他的他會稱師兄弟！最後，請問莫偉強先生過去10 年對本門又做了甚麼！莫生常掛在口邊，蛇鶴詠春是他打回來的，怎樣打！

本人從來沒有離開過師門，為何本人給家師的私人信件會在其手中，我也莫明其妙，我是否儍的！莫生還指我信中 駡師父，同門，指甚麼甚麼！我也想看看其信件內容寫的是甚麼，有沒有簽名，是否有離開師門之意！又怎樣指責 同門及其本人，其信件是來自我的Hotmail 戶口，我從無hotmail 帳戶，使我更奇怪！他在說甚麼。還有，他在面書還說有很多很多我的文件，若本門出對其聲明信就公開更多我的 文件，更令我莫明其妙！

香港有法，不是你有幾點水就可胡作非為，若在不知情下你擁有我個人文件，是盜竊，若真的是本人信件（已被公 開），還有，你聲稱手頭還有更多將公開，是嚴重侵犯個人私隱。相信你不會不認識香港法例！

最後希望莫生仿照Chi Bun Lau (Allen Lau) 劉生做法，完滿地把事情作句號！否則問問你的法律顧問。同時、劉生不要再有任何小動作，忍耐是 有
限的,你是否要像你師兄 張鴻勝 挑別人事，抬高自己，須知你是鴻勝蔡李佛，永春及蛇形刁手門，不是本門人士。98xx91xx .

======================================
對話開始於9月9日
Chi Bun Lau
2014-9-09 9:03
Chi Bun Lau
翁師傅, 對不起, 我失言, 對閣下及貴會做成之麻煩, 深感歉意. 請諒. chi bun LAU
===
Wayne Yung
2014-9-09 21:18
Wayne Yung
劉生，代人出頭要小心事情背後，否則真是自找麻煩，回不倒頭，你已不是第一位。請看昨夜掛的源 頭因素就楚
9月10日看過
======================================

在此事中，柯宗師相當掛念我！你好努力！

溫馨提示，所有在面書曾做過的都會被紀錄下來包括刪除、修改等，內容依然傳在，法律可追究的！

[ccwayne]

Next time as you like to bring something bad on me from facebood here, make sure it is getting proved. Or you can just simply leaving message here to ask people to go to facebook.

1. This can see how you behave, like a kid to complain to the teacher(public)

2. It also show you that you are free to go to everywhere daily, HK, China, Taiwan, SEA, US to seek your target and spread your emei ykwc seed.

3. How many accounts you owned in this KFO forums ? we already know you have many. How many you have in HK kungfuboard ? How many you have in HK, China, Taiwan, SEA ? Sometimes you uses different accoutns to question and other accounts to answer to spread your emeie stories.

What this guy is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Minghequan]

It seems everyone is posting their proof except Grandmaster Hendrik & Co!

[anerlich]

Proof? All I see are pictures of two fat Asian guys with some flags.

[Minghequan]

Really? I see some of the most respected Chinese Martial Arts stylists in the world. If only one would open their eyes and see anew!

[dlcox]

YOU ALL HAVE MISSED THE POINT OF THIS THREAD ENTIRELY

None of you can resist the urge to boast and brag about meaningless drivel while at the same time refusing to recognize or acknowledge the elephant in the room, the very elephant you came to discuss. You're clueless and I've wasted way too much of my time with a group of self righteous cynics and hippocrites who pretend to have way more experience and knowledge than they truely hold.

Best of luck to you, I'm out.

[Minghequan]

David,

You are right of course! I agree 100%

But the problem here is Hendrik has by his own doing allowed this forum to degenerate via his self-righteous self-aggrandizing spamming.

That said, we are just as guilty by giving response to his spamming.

[LFJ]

YOU ALL HAVE MISSED THE POINT OF THIS THREAD ENTIRELY

None of you can resist the urge to boast and brag about meaningless drivel while at the same time refusing to recognize or acknowledge the elephant in the room, the very elephant you came to discuss. You're clueless and I've wasted way too much of my time with a group of self righteous cynics and hippocrites who pretend to have way more experience and knowledge than they truely hold.

Best of luck to you, I'm out.

Most of us don't need to ask ourselves all those questions because we haven't convinced ourselves we know Wing Chun history. Hendrik, I think, is the only one coming on here claiming to have answered it all, while dodging questions, telling blatant lies, and fabricating stories. Most people are posting to counter Hendrik's nonsense. Why the hell are you insulting everyone? Buh-bye!

[GlennR]

Proof? All I see are pictures of two fat Asian guys with some flags.

You missed that one was asleep..... must have been on this forum

[GlennR]

YOU ALL HAVE MISSED THE POINT OF THIS THREAD ENTIRELY

None of you can resist the urge to boast and brag about meaningless drivel while at the same time refusing to recognize or acknowledge the elephant in the room, the very elephant you came to discuss. You're clueless and I've wasted way too much of my time with a group of self righteous cynics and hippocrites who pretend to have way more experience and knowledge than they truely hold.

Best of luck to you, I'm out.

Oh boo hoo......... didn't the forum recognise your words of wisdom!?!

Close the door on the way out will ya.....

[LoneTiger108]

YOU ALL HAVE MISSED THE POINT OF THIS THREAD ENTIRELY

1. What are the origins of my line of Yongchun?
Well, for me it's a Southern Art, and so we call it Wing Chun. My 'line' comes from Leung Jan, to Chan Wah Shun, to Yip Man to Lee Shing to my Sifu Joseph Man.

2. Can the origin claims be substantiated by verifiable documentation?
Well of course they can.

3. Does the documentation coincide with the oral tradition?
Yes.

4. What are the fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?
The seed.

5. Are they hypothetical or theoretical?
It is both theoretical and physical.

6. What aspects of my line of Yongchun do I hold questionable?
Not many! Maybe I would question why everybody questions Yip Mans authenticity as a true Wing Chun practitioner?

7. Do they hold up under investigation?
From my point of view, yes.

8. How is my line of Yongchun comparatively to other branches?
We are a small clan. Varied. And old.

9. What are the similarities what are the differences?
The name Wing Chun for starters. Quite a few differences, but mainly Lee Shing was known to learn from 'others' as well as Yip Man.

10. Do these parallels coincide with generally accepted tradition?
Er... Yes!??

11. What are the accepted fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?
Train well, train safe

12. Do I truly understand and comprehend these concepts beyond the given explanation?
I hope so!

Your point is? :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yes, I restated this thread.
Why?
Well, nothing to do with the originator of this thread at all.
This is a statement I am making right now because we have too much of this in THIS forum:
We have too many threads that are started and then deleted because the originator didn't like the way they went.
Guess what?
From now on TOO BAD.
As of right now you have to have a very good reason to delete a thread and it NOT going the way you wanted is not acceptable.
You guys want moderation? you got it.

I feel bad that I have to use this thread as an example but so be it.

So, for anyone deciding to create a thread understand this:

Don't ask questions unless you are ok with hearing answers that you don't like and disagree with.

Tough, such is life.

There are many threads that do NOT go in the direction hoped for by the thread creator, that is the fluid nature of discussion and debate.
Deal with it.

Again I apologize to Dlcox that it is this thread that I am using to make a statement.

[LFJ]

This is a statement I am making right now because we have too much of this in THIS forum:
We have too many threads that are started and then deleted because the originator didn't like the way they went.
Guess what?
From now on TOO BAD.

Good! It's disrespectful to the people who spend the time to write a response for it to just be deleted when the OP gets upset and decides to play god. In some forums, you only have a limited time in which you may edit or delete posts (several minutes). I still find the ability to edit later useful (when adding information), but the function can be abused by some to alter or delete the history of their speech or conduct. If you don't want something you've written to be forever on the internet, don't write it in the first place!

[bawang]

yongchun is not that mysterious of an art guys.

its a mish mash bare bones style from yong chun city practiced by prostitutes and drug dealers.

[Sihing73]

yongchun is not that mysterious of an art guys.

its a mish mash bare bones style from yong chun city practiced by prostitutes.

So, is this the style you practice??
Seems to fit from what I have read about you :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

yongchun is not that mysterious of an art guys.

its a mish mash bare bones style from yong chun city practiced by prostitutes and drug dealers.

You say that as if it was a bad thing.

Northern elitist swine !!

[dlcox]

Yes, I restated this thread.
Why?
Well, nothing to do with the originator of this thread at all.
This is a statement I am making right now because we have too much of this in THIS forum:
We have too many threads that are started and then deleted because the originator didn't like the way they went.
Guess what?
From now on TOO BAD.
As of right now you have to have a very good reason to delete a thread and it NOT going the way you wanted is not acceptable.
You guys want moderation? you got it.

I feel bad that I have to use this thread as an example but so be it.

So, for anyone deciding to create a thread understand this:

Don't ask questions unless you are ok with hearing answers that you don't like and disagree with.

Tough, such is life.

There are many threads that do NOT go in the direction hoped for by the thread creator, that is the fluid nature of discussion and debate.
Deal with it.

Again I apologize to Dlcox that it is this thread that I am using to make a statement.



No apology necessary sanjuro_ronin.

I didn't delete the thread because I didn't like the way it was going. I did it to show how easy it is to moderate when things start to spiral out of control. Thank you for stepping up to the plate.

[dlcox]

Most of us don't need to ask ourselves all those questions because we haven't convinced ourselves we know Wing Chun history. Hendrik, I think, is the only one coming on here claiming to have answered it all, while dodging questions, telling blatant lies, and fabricating stories. Most people are posting to counter Hendrik's nonsense. Why the hell are you insulting everyone? Buh-bye!

I do apologize for being insulting, I really have been trying to be less abrupt, but I had to be a little more aggressive and pushy if I was going to bait people into responding. I knew that if I started hitting the right nerve people would resort to name calling and mud slinging. This I knew would sooner or later catch the attention of the moderator.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Now that, that is resolved.
Back on topic gentlemen.

[dlcox]

1. What are the origins of my line of Yongchun?
Well, for me it's a Southern Art, and so we call it Wing Chun. My 'line' comes from Leung Jan, to Chan Wah Shun, to Yip Man to Lee Shing to my Sifu Joseph Man.

2. Can the origin claims be substantiated by verifiable documentation?
Well of course they can.

3. Does the documentation coincide with the oral tradition?
Yes.

4. What are the fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?
The seed.

5. Are they hypothetical or theoretical?
It is both theoretical and physical.

6. What aspects of my line of Yongchun do I hold questionable?
Not many! Maybe I would question why everybody questions Yip Mans authenticity as a true Wing Chun practitioner?

7. Do they hold up under investigation?
From my point of view, yes.

8. How is my line of Yongchun comparatively to other branches?
We are a small clan. Varied. And old.

9. What are the similarities what are the differences?
The name Wing Chun for starters. Quite a few differences, but mainly Lee Shing was known to learn from 'others' as well as Yip Man.

10. Do these parallels coincide with generally accepted tradition?
Er... Yes!??

11. What are the accepted fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?
Train well, train safe

12. Do I truly understand and comprehend these concepts beyond the given explanation?
I hope so!

Your point is? :)


Thank you for responding. My point is, as sanjuro_ronin pointed out earlier in the thread, how do you prove the tradition? There is no sense engaging in lineage wars when no one involved can prove their claims of origin beyond a shadow of a doubt. Grandiose claims and stories do not protect or prepare you from a violent encounter, actual training for that encounter does.

[dlcox]

Oh boo hoo......... didn't the forum recognise your words of wisdom!?!

Close the door on the way out will ya.....


Someone took notice, how this was achieved is irrelevant. Moderation is what you wanted is it not?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The issue of lineage MAY be a valid one when the question of a legitimate successor is important.
Beyond that, I have no idea WHY it would matter to anyone else.
Truly.
I read this and agree with it 100%:

"Tradition is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of the living. Tradition lives in conversation with the past, while remembering where we are and when we are and that it is we who have to decide. Traditionalism supposes that nothing should ever be done for the first time, so all that is needed to solve any problem is to arrive at the supposedly unanimous testimony of this ****genized tradition."
-Jaroslav Pelikan

The crucial part in this, IMO, is this part:
"...while remembering where we are and when we are and that it is we who have to decide."

So much would be so simply if people would realize that.

[YouKnowWho]

So, for anyone deciding to create a thread understand this:

Don't ask questions unless you are ok with hearing answers that you don't like and disagree with.
When you create a thread,

1. if no one respond to your post, you will feel been ignored.
2. people all respond to your post,

if you

- only respond to those who agree with you, people will say that you want to hear what you like to hear.
- also respond to those who don't agree with you, people will say that you start a thread so you can argue with others.

It's a lose-lose situation no matter which direction your thread may go. When you open your window, butterfly will fly in, but mosquito will fly in too.

When someone puts up a clip and asks for comment, don't comment it. Unless your comment is

- excellent,
- great job,
- I love it,
- thanks for sharing,
- ...,

any other comment will be treated as criticize on his skill and you will be considered as his enemy.

Sometime to put yourself in "listen" mode can give you a much peaceful life without having to worry about your blood pressure raising.

- more opinion -> more argument
- less opinion -> less argument
- no opinion -> no argument

[Jimbo]

When you create a thread,

1. if no one respond to your post, you will feel been ignored.
2. people all respond to your post,

if you

- only respond to those who agree with you, people will say that you want to hear what you like to hear.
- also respond to those who don't agree with you, people will say that you start a thread so you can argue with others.

It's a lose-lose situation no matter which direction your thread may go. When you open your window, butterfly will fly in, but mosquito will fly in too.

When someone puts up a clip and asks for comment, don't comment it. Unless your comment is

- excellent,
- great job,
- I love it,
- thanks for sharing,
- ...,

any other comment will be treated as criticize on his skill and you will be considered as his enemy.

Sometime to put yourself in "listen" mode can give you a much peaceful life without having to worry about your blood pressure raising.

- more opinion -> more argument
- less opinion -> less argument
- no opinion -> no argument

1. If you start a thread, or post in a thread and nobody responds, well, that sometimes happens on the internet. It's happened to me more than once. You can't take it personally at all; it's meaningless in the scheme of life. It's just putting up thoughts. If you feel like putting something out there, all you can do is post it up. Look at it like going fishing; sometimes the fish will bite and you have a great day, and other times you don't get anything. No big deal. Sometimes if you reword the same thing in a different way at a later time, you may get responses.

2. Nobody should be expected to respond only to those who agree, or argue with those who disagree. Respond to whomever you feel inspired to. Why worry about what other people might or might not think of you? If people would respond to others as if they were actually speaking face to face with whoever they're communicating with online, things would be a lot more civil and productive.

[GlennR]

Someone took notice, how this was achieved is irrelevant. Moderation is what you wanted is it not?

Not full moderation, but i think what has been done is ideal.

He can post his whack-job ideas if he likes, but he wont as they wont get the attention he so dearly believes he deserves

[Chun Ki]

Weiner #2:

Get outta my sandbox and take your crappy home made action figure with you. I don't want to play with you anymore, you've got cooties!


Sorry man. Glad your back. :)

[dlcox]

Not full moderation, but i think what has been done is ideal.

He can post his whack-job ideas if he likes, but he wont as they wont get the attention he so dearly believes he deserves

I agree. And a big thank you to Sihing and Sanjuro for listening and taking initiative to clean things up.

[dlcox]

Sorry man. Glad your back. :)

No worries, glad a resolution was made.

[bawang]

anybody that takes hendrik seriously is worse than hendrik.

do not blame the dog for eating its own vomit.