some personal problems about martial arts and some questions.

[Wongsifu]

hi guys just some questions that anyone can help me with really.

1st How does a boxer/ kickboxer make his body resilient, i mean how is it that tyson can take a hit from a sledgehammer, and jim bob the supermarket owner cant ? Is it because he gets used to it ? I know its a stupid question but these guys dont train iron body , how do they do it.

2nd i look at boxing and it really is brutal , i mean i consider it more brutal than muay thai or ufc for the simple fact that its a slugathon that last for ever and the body just keeps getting abuse, my questionis: is it immoral to fight ? i mean i know it sounds stupid but is it wrong to hurt someone in the ring if you know you will hurt him.

take rocky marciano i was just reading up on the guy and he could punch like a tractor, boxers are meant to take this punishment, what if someone like marciano, knowing his advantage were to step in the ring with an amateur or pro and really mess him up , isnt it wrong ?

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[LEGEND]

1st How does a boxer/ kickboxer make his body resilient, i mean how is it that tyson can take a hit from a sledgehammer, and jim bob the supermarket owner cant ? Is it because he gets used to it ? I know its a stupid question but these guys dont train iron body , how do they do it.

"They are use to it! Football and rugby for example...these guys get popped. But there use to it! Also these guys train hard on bodyweight exercises...some weight lifting( surprisingly in striking this IS NOT NECESSARY ). But when I was boxing...u just got use to the hits."

2nd i look at boxing and it really is brutal , i mean i consider it more brutal than muay thai or ufc for the simple fact that its a slugathon that last for ever and the body just keeps getting abuse, my questionis: is it immoral to fight ? i mean i know it sounds stupid but is it wrong to hurt someone in the ring if you know you will hurt him.

"I have to AGREE. Boxing is the most brutal form of combat primarily cause u get hit over and over and over to your HEAD!!! The long survivors of boxing are those that avoid getting hit. I had to quit boxing/muy thai cause at 140lbs I was trying to fight like JOE FRAZIER instead of Sugar Shane Mosley. I would drive home seeing white spots all the time. I will go back to boxing to keep my standup fresh but right now too busy working and skool...the economy is too bad rite now to invest in another MMA."

take rocky marciano i was just reading up on the guy and he could punch like a tractor, boxers are meant to take this punishment, what if someone like marciano, knowing his advantage were to step in the ring with an amateur or pro and really mess him up , isnt it wrong ?

"These guys Mike Tyson, Rocky, etc...had a common problem...they grew up POOR. Money plays a big part in LIFE...with MONEY u get the nice cars, clothes, big breast nice asss women...can u blame them??? I mean when was the last boxer that had a college education??? All in all...they'll respond and say hey...the opponents know what there getting into also!"

A

[Mr. Nemo]

1st question:
If you're talking about body blows, boxers have a series of conditioning methods to help them take blows to the body - plain old situps, various bridging exercises, weight training that recruits the trunk muscles, and training with the medicine ball.

If you're talking about head shots, there are certain things that can help you take head shots without getting knocked out: strong jaw muscles and a strong, supple neck will help. Also, learning to roll with punches. Having a good "chin" I would say is about 10% conditioning (neck and jaw muscles), 40% experience being hit (knowing how to roll with a punch and just being used to getting hit), 30% mental (not being afraid of being KO'd), and 20% genetic (some guys you just can't knock out for some reason). Those percentages change from person to person.

2nd question: Well, Rocky Marciano was a pro boxer and wouldn't be allowed to fight an amatuer. I agree boxing is more brutal than MMA, one of the reasons I don't like boxing as much as MMA. But no, I don't think it's immoral. The guy in the other corner knows the risks and has accepted them by agreeing to step in the ring.

[Merryprankster]

Legend and Nemo are correct :)

Body conditioning comes from getting tagged repeatedly. I have to agree with the mental thing too... if you KNOW you are going to get hit, and accept that, it becomes a lot easier, at least in my very limited experience.

[prana]

The human body is truly amazing

[Wongsifu]

the 3 guys i argue with most of the time about mma/kf are here to help :) thanks guys.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[SevenStar]

I agree with MerryPrankster

As for the second question, the fighters know what they are getting into when they decide they want to box. Tyson isn't invincible, he just hits hard as fu/ck. There is nothing immoral about it.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[Wongsifu]

okay now i hate to admit this but another problem has surfaced recently, even though i spend ages doing my internal training, and i attribute 90% of my power to that, i have started to like the thought of punching like a boxer, god knows why, but i feel it is more natural, weird considering i used to do wing chun and my power punch is a karate one. I dont mean jabs i just love the old hook, even a highly telegraphed one. i think maybe its because the concept is just like that of kung fu , you use the power from the floor, and direct it through your waist. Now the thing that really got me thinking is that, on a website which i cant remember now !!! it has a formula for power and the guy states that ke is what hurts the guy when it arrives and that equals to half the mass of the punch X velocit x velocity. MEaning velocity is important . Now velocity equals distance traveled divided by the time taken.

This means your power is directly equal to how fast you cover a small distance not how fast your punch moves. Which makes sense as this is the concept that things like cun jing (the inch punch) work on.
Meaning that if you take any internal out of the equation, boxing has the most powerful punch.

I hope to have solved one of the great mysteries of the faster the punch the harder it hits .

i nearly forgot my problem is that , i am starting to get this hook as a natural reaction, whereas my "karate" punch is more powerful.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[Merryprankster]

Find a boxing coach and train on learning how to throw a hook.

As for velocity=a hard hit, it's true. However, acceleration is also important. A person with tremendous acceleration and good velocity on the end of the punch hits harder than somebody with simply good velocity. Boxers refer to this as "snap."

[Daredevil]

As for question number one ...

Iron body is just a fancy word for getting used to it. A special word, with special training methods, but the idea is pretty much the same.

[Wongsifu]

merry thats all good to say that but it doesnt have a place in my fighting style, you know you need to fight different all together, or else the moves would look funny, its different stances and footwork to go with the boxing punches. except for the uppercut, which you find in kf anyway.
Well i gotta look into it.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[Mr. Nemo]

Wongsifu, what style do you do? It's not listed in your profile. Are hooks expressly prohibited by your style?

[rogue]

No matter how good a boxer is at taking a hit, they all add up in the end.

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban


There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, 'To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.' Patton

[Merryprankster]

So learn to throw a boxing style hook, then play around with it until it suits you. Nobody is expecting you to drop into boxing footwork. You may find it's impossible, but I'm willing to bet you can find a way to make it work.

[Crimson Phoenix]

My bagua sifu is a traditional chinese who teaches traditionally...Yet he often tells us things that move the boxer in me like "what I'm teaching you is to structure the body, techniques are secondary *shows us some techniques* everything is in the posture and the bows, look at the good boxers punching, their structure is set, the bows are set, the body moves as one".
That's very cool from a guy that has been taught from old school masters like Chu Gui Ting...of course, Wang Xiang Zhai wouldn't agree with him heheheheheh

[Wongsifu]

crimson you know its funny you mentioned that post about bagua because i was thinking the low palms of bagua use the same mechanics to a point as a boxers body shots, (to a certain extent).

merry what style i do , rite now im practising tai ji , its not forbidden i dont think anything is forbidden as such , its just that i like to hold my stances solid and hit hard, i dont like the thought of moving in and out with hooks.
But things get more complex because my sifu wants , well is going to teach me san shou for competitions, and im not too fond of the idea, but all in all its a bid dilemma of ive tried many styles i like the principles of all of them but i donno which one to stick with. Having said that , the one thing i love is my internal chi kung and iron body . as for fighting style im like :confused:

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[shaolinboxer]

A lot of getting used to being hit is psychological.

The other day at the dojo I was getting lifted by by neck and thrown pretty hard (the guy I was training with happend to be a boxing trainer and knew I had boxed, so he figured I had a chin and could take it). It was fun actually. When I come to train with my next partner he looked at me and said, "man I thought he was going to kill you".

I did some thinking about this over the weekend and realized that once you are used to hard contact, you become much more objective about taking abuse. Instead of being frazzled by hits, you can simply think about whether or not you have taken any real damage, and how much time you may need to recover. The mind is not disturbed, so it can be objective about the body. You just have to train until you understand your true tolerances.

[LEGEND]

IF the footwork is trict as wing chun u may have a problem adapting HOOKs into your technique...

A

[Tigerstyle]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the 3 guys i argue with most of the time about mma/kf are here to help...[/quote]LOL! I just noticed that.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...i have started to like the thought of punching like a boxer, god knows why, but i feel it is more natural...[/quote]Boxing has been around for a long time. If a boxer's punches weren't economical/effective, boxers wouldn't be using them.

[qeySuS]

btw WongShifu were you from Trinidad & Tobaco?

Free thinkers are dangerous!

[phipsi229]

Wongsifu, the equation you mentioned is the one for kinetic energy. (.5Mass) * (Velocity)^2 = Kinetic Energy. This is different from momentum which is just mass times velocity, which explains why a light bullet going very fast causes a lot of damage since the velocity is squared in kinetic energy.

However, that equation is only a part of the solution since I have never seen an equation that defines Chi and I doubt I ever will. I was recently 'shown' a technique by my Da Suye, and while he is fast, the 'experience' could not be explained by physics alone.

You might be interested in an article in the latest edition of The Journal of Asian Martial Arts which contrasts the boxing styles of Hsing-I and Western boxing.

"Lord, what fools these mortals be."

[prana]

once you integrate Momentum, you get Kinetic Energy, area under momentum.

[Wongsifu]

2 many good answers here , keep them coming in, of course i would be interested in the article comparing hsing yi with boxing , post the link for everyone to see.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo