Recently discovered boxer rebellion reveals a new picture of chan ngau sing

[hskwarrior]

i woke up this morning to a bunch of messages about a boxer rebellion photo i posted on facebook.
someone asked if the guy on the left was chan ngau sing. I didn't think so at first, so i made a side by side and a superimposed
picture of chan ngau sing andthe guy in the picture. Amazingly i believe i've found a new pic of our first successor of the
Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon

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This is the original photo

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[Firehawk4]

These guys in the bottom picture look like they really used there Martial Arts and weapons in real combat in the warzone i guess agianst the Ching and Colonalist powers from the west like the USA and Europe in the 1890 s early 1900 hundreds .

[hskwarrior]

The one on the left (chan ngau sing) is my gung fu elder. and yeah, they were involved with every major revolution in southern china, including the over throwing of the Qing Dynasty in 1911.
was extremely feared by other gung fu masters all over southern China. He didn't mess around and he hated bad people. he was definitely a righteous man and fought for it as well

[mickey]

Greetings,

The two photos differ with the nose, upper lip, eyebrow, and cheekbone prominence. It is close though. I saw this picture a few years ago. I did not think this was a Boxer Rebellion photo. It looks more like an early 20th century photo, considering how long it took to hold the pose until the image was captured in the 19th century. If 19th century, the guy in the background with his head turned would be a blur. Do you really think that guy in the background was posing with his head turned for the picture?

For purposes of comparison, check out the photos of Abraham Lincoln, as well as stereo view cards from that era.


mickey

[hskwarrior]

This was most likely the Huizhou rebellion. For me, i see more of an on point resemblance immediately. the eyebrows are the same, the scar on the right side of the chin is the same, and their physical frame is the same. cheek bones are dead on IMO plus, the two photo's have different angles. also, none of it is overlapping or out of place. if there was big difference i would notice it. for now, im convinced.

i've already sent this to the mother school in Fut San, i'll wait to see what they say about it.

haha that guy has his head turned cause he is clearly looking at something.

[mickey]

Greetings,

You did say that the photo was a Boxer Rebellion photo. I shared info on why it may not be. Now, you have changed the time reference to fit your argument There is one glaring difference in the photo and it is the upper lip. The soldier does not have the "v" in his upper lip as with your ancestral photo (time will not smooth that out). And his eyes are more recessed, causing his eyebrows to cast a shadow. I can tell how excited you are about this. Take a good look at the upper lip.

I know how difficult it is to find photos of your ancestors. And they do have a way of finding you, even when you are not expecting them.

Good Luck with your research.

mickey

[hskwarrior]

Greetings,

You did say that the photo was a Boxer Rebellion photo. I shared info on why it may not be. Now, you have changed the time reference to fit your argument There is one glaring difference in the photo and it is the upper lip. The soldier does not have the "v" in his upper lip as with your ancestral photo (time will not smooth that out). And his eyes are more recessed, causing his eyebrows to cast a shadow. I can tell how excited you are about this. Take a good look at the upper lip.

I know how difficult it is to find photos of your ancestors. And they do have a way of finding you, even when you are not expecting them.

Good Luck with your research.

yes i did say that. i made a mistake in describing the photo. i corrected myself. you have an issue with me correcting myself? you can think what you want, i will do the same. I'm NOT searching for anything. someone pointed it out to me and YOU are the only person so far that thinks they don't match up. still, i'll wait for the answer from the mother school, but thanks for you participation.

[mickey]

Hi,

I loved that "YOU".

You are too much. :)

Peace Brother,

mickey

[hskwarrior]

YOU YOU YOUYOUYOUYOUYOUYOUYOUYOU

hahahaha

[hskwarrior]

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[mickey]

Okay, YOU YOU YOU,

Now compare the mouths of each one with a set of photos. Notice the difference with the upper lip.

mickey

[hskwarrior]

i can see the dip in the lip. LOL on the revolutionary. it's there. just hard to see.
seriously i originally thought it wasn't him. someone pointed it out n i said no. but i felt like proving it to myself
so i played with it. expected to prove it wrong. but its clear, this is most likely him. just no way to confirm

[hskwarrior]

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[mickey]

Greetings

One thing that may help you argument would be in finding out what kind of rifles the guys are holding. I don't know anything about guns. I hope for you and your Hung Sing peeps you are right. As I said previously, the ancestors have ways of making themselves known.

When I first saw the photo a few years ago, I thought the guy standing center was Kwan Saihung from the Wandering Taoist trilogy. I let that thought go.

mickey

[hskwarrior]

This photo was taken in 1900 give or take a few. my elder was alive and kicking and very active revolutionary wise during this time.
this picture is most like from the Huizhou uprising.

[hskwarrior]

now, my question next would be, are the other guys he's with hung sing guys? we had our own dai do group then

[Firehawk4]

Id like to know who the guy in the middle of the picture is and was he good with that horse cutting knife or sword ? I mean the Sword or Horse knife on his back that is what it is isnt it ?

[hskwarrior]

the big horse choppin dai Do... yup. from what i hear those who used that weapon were wicked with it.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I did some reading on the Huizhou uprising.

It took place during the months of October and November. It was short lived.

The problem is that that picture of those soldiers was taken during winter. If you pay attention to the body language of the soldier on the right, his upper body is curled forward from the cold. The soldier in the center is squeezing his hands and the person of your interest is hiding his left hand. They are wearing winter wear. Can you explain the turbans? When I saw the photo a few years ago, I concluded that these men might be Muslims.

And still, if you compare the mouths there is a difference. I looked at the soldier really hard since my last post. His face is relaxed, considering the weather, yet, you can see his teeth. There is a difference; yet, I am hopeful for you.

mickey

[mickey]

Greetings,

there was one thing that I did not take into consideration and that is the passage of time. So, I hope that both photos are of the same person. I have been studying those photos so hard my eyes hurt. This will be my last post her unless hskwarrior starts with that YOU YOU YOU stuff. :)

Good Luck!

mickey

[hskwarrior]

You you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you

[hskwarrior]

And still, if you compare the mouths there is a difference. I looked at the soldier really hard since my last post. His face is relaxed, considering the weather, yet, you can see his teeth. There is a difference; yet, I am hopeful for you.

mickey

there are MORE similarities in the mouth than differences. i don't know what you're seeing. or maybe you just don't want to believe it no matter what. Turns were part of Chinese revolution and has nothing to do with religion.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Since my last post, I took the time to find a better photo of your ancestor. I found a clearer photo at Doc Fai Wong's site. I saw the similarities better. I also saw the info that you had put up on u tube. I am standing with you on this one. Even if the photo is from a different incident, I have no doubts about it being him any more.

http://plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/channgau-sing.html

Sincerely,

mickey

[hskwarrior]

ok that's great to hear :D

[hskwarrior]

This is a picture directly related to Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon. At first i didn't see it either until the original photo. then i looked at this one and
i believe the guy in the lighter clothes is also chan ngau sing

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[hskwarrior]

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the progression of these pictures are as follows: 1900-1915-1921
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[Jimbo]

This is a picture directly related to Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon. At first i didn't see it either until the original photo. then i looked at this one and
i believe the guy in the lighter clothes is also chan ngau sing

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Hi, hsk.

Is that a Westerner (a German or a British?) seated in the center?

Cool thread. I enjoy seeing these Ching-era photographs.

*edit to add: On closer examination, I don't think that's a Westerner.

[hskwarrior]

he could be british....idk. good question.

[mickey]

Greetings,

hskwarrior, if you check out the soldier's photo and the ancestral photo, the shoulders also line up.

I went on the inner planes last night and asked why your ancestor would go on the frontline the response I got was:

1- He would not have it any other way.

2- He led by example.

3- He walked his talk.

Also provided was also the suggestion that Sun Yat Sen had the support of the British, which explains the type of rifles. It also explained why your ancestor could easily escape to Hong Kong. This info was provided to give insight to your ancestor's mental state when he saw a British person maltreating a Chinese person in Hong Kong. It was something like betrayal and RAGE.


mickey

[hskwarrior]

yeah i noticed the shoulder line up as well. the left shoulder rises higher than the right.
now i'm dealing with the new photo. I feel it looks like him, has the same facial marks as our ancestor, also has the same shoulder marker.

the inner planes huh. you got it like that?

yeah the vide we all get about Chan Sing was that he was feared all over southern China. He hated bad people. but would never back down from a fight.
when our founder (Cheung Hung Sing) was in his late 60's he was said to have lost his fight challenge match, by one stroke. Chan Sing was so ****ed about it
that he went and challenged that guy and killed him in the match.

many of our masters were in league with Brother Sun Yat Sen. a few were even personal bodyguards for our brother Sun. In Fut San, Hung Sing Kwoon was the top dog in the area, and Chan Sing was the boss of all bosses.
he did get kicked out of hong kong for beating up a british police officer. he was always a fighter. When we went to go and recruit him, he shot us down saying he could easily defeat Cheung Hung Sing. but he couldn't so he joined our school back then. It was under his guidance that our mother school grew to become the largest, most structured, and longest running schoool of gung fu during its time.

See if you can find my Dragon on the planes. only one other person was able to do that.

[hskwarrior]

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[mickey]

Hi hskwarrior,

I only do the inner planes work with a sincere heart. Not as a "let us see if you can......". It is easy to lose those abilities when you abuse them. I would not call what I do an ability, nor a knack. It is very underdeveloped.

I am very happy with your success, here. Keep on going!



mickey

[hskwarrior]

i completely understand. I have a strong psychic thing going on i just don't know how to manipulate it. i get day visions alot. I astral Project. not at will. but i do.
so i totally see where you are coming from

[hskwarrior]

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[Ben Gash]

Kung Fu historian Ben Judkins describes the first picture as a Qing police patrol, not a group of revolutionaries. They are certainly equipped in such a fashion, and as has been pointed out they are dressed too warmly for Guangdong, even in winter.

[mickey]

Greetings,

It has been ages Ben Gash.

I have also been looking around the net about Sun Yat Sen and I do remember reading that the Qing/Ching forces had been infiltrated by the revolutionaries.

I also wondered how Chan Ngau Sing was able to open a school that taught weaponry without government approval, especially during tumultuous times. The information you shared was insightful.

mickey

[Ben Gash]

My usual haunts have been a little quiet lately.

[hskwarrior]

Greetings,

It has been ages Ben Gash.

I have also been looking around the net about Sun Yat Sen and I do remember reading that the Qing/Ching forces had been infiltrated by the revolutionaries.

I also wondered how Chan Ngau Sing was able to open a school that taught weaponry without government approval, especially during tumultuous times. The information you shared was insightful.

can anyone Show me another Chinese Police Squad that wore turbans?

there is MORE to the fut san hung sing kwoon than any of us out here knows about. FUT SAN HUNG SING is on this like white on rice as they too think I have found pictures of Chan Ngau Sing. Facial Recognition is our next effort to explore these pictures. however, just because the guy labled this picture as a police squad, doesn't mean HE is a policeman. i've seen this picture more times labelled as other titles. this historian is going to have to give me more than this this is a police squad.

When you are a revolutionary, you don't do things in the open where you can get caught. many people think they have the answer but usually miss out on some serious other elements to the picture. could that historian be wrong? OF COURSE. Could I be wrong? OF COURSE. But i'm not giving up. like i said, i have fut san and guangzhou hung sing's following up on this as we speak.

Chan Ngau Sing's Hung Sing Kwoon were the "GOOD GUYS" in their day while the Wing Chun guys were thought of as on the bad guy side. Good Guys are definitely capable of policing anywhere. and the fut san hung sing kwoon was famous for its Dai Do big chopper groups and even taught this at the Wam po military academy.

the efforts continue.


Henry **** and Sifu L**** say many thanks for the picture. Everybody here is very excited about it

They are even wondering now about the person in the center of the photo. They are curious to whether or not that could be Cheung Hung Sing. I doubt it though because when Chan Ngau Sing didn't become Cheung Hung Sing's students until the latter was about 58 or 59 years old. Personally, I don't think the guy in the center is our founder. but i could be wrong. The question was "why would chan sing stand behind that guy if it wasn't cheung hung sing. for me, perhaps that guy is the squad leader. revolutionary leader that involved chan ngau sing. no one knows right now. but they have started the ball rolling in Fut San and Guangzhou. Since it was their country they will have better opportunity to prove these pictures as correct or incorrect representations. we'll see.

[mickey]

Greetings hskwarrior,

You are stomping on the wrong guy, here.

No where did I write that Chan Ngau Sing was a bad guy. The word "revolutionary" is a positive one.

By the way, posing for a photo is as far out in the open as you can get. Your ancestor had some serious cajones. To have a kung fu school that taught weapons, you still needed permission to do so. What was offered by Ben Gash's contact, as you say, may be correct or may be otherwise. Still, it is a contribution given in good faith. It offered nothing negative about Chan Ngau Sing. If anything, it spoke to his intelligence.

Leave the caffeine alone. You are reading too much into the stuff. :)

mickey

Think this for a moment:

Qing officer: Chan Ngau Sing has organized ten thousand men, ready to serve the Emperor in a moments notice!

[hskwarrior]

Greetings hskwarrior,

You are stomping on the wrong guy, here.

No where did I write that Chan Ngau Sing was a bad guy. The word "revolutionary" is a positive one.

i wasn't stomping on you nor anyone bro. i didn't indicate anywhere that you said he was a bad guy. i was explaining what kind of person chan sing was. you seemed to have taken what i said in the wrong way.
you might wanna go back into the planes about that..

[hskwarrior]

Qing officer: Chan Ngau Sing has organized ten thousand men, ready to serve the Emperor in a moments notice!

is this something you came up with? if not where is that from? Our elders followed my brother Sun Yat Sen. I doubt he would organize men to serve the Qing Emperor. not Chan Ngau Sing. his students later joined the communist party and became leaders for all of the trade unions in and around fut san. But i seriously doubt chan sing would ever serve the emperor.

[mickey]

hskwarrior,

You misunderstand me.

Working for the government would have allowed him to organize thusly, because he would have had the freedom to do it. And the Qing would think he was doing it all for them.

I was simply showing you what advantages working for the Qing would offer him. If he did infiltrate the Qing forces.

Do you get it now?


mickey

[hskwarrior]

i completely understand what you're saying. i just think its not correct. not in regards to Chan Ngau Sing. His students perhaps. but not Chan Sing.
Chan Ngau Sing was notorious and totally against the government. At that time, he was a hard core revolutionary for the Hung Mun. The gov would have killed him.
Now, he wasn't always known as Chan Sing. He was also known as mou sing as well as by another name. Until the overthrow of the Qing, we battled the Qing.
so the notion that he would do so doesn't set well with me. His students infiltrated the government afterwards to benefit their people and not the government.
yes there was strategic placement of hung sing people in government, just not by chan sing. he would be pure revolutionary.

and, it would NOT be impossible for Chan Sing or his people to learn the Dai Do without the governments permission. They would do it in private, out of sight from government spies or snitches. they didn't need to operate on an open level to train their fighters. they did it regardless of government opinion. when the gov closed down the Hung Sing Kwoon they would just set up shop somewhere else and pick up where the left off.

again, i didn't misunderstand you. it was just the opposite.

[mickey]

Hi,

In your u tube tribute you posted that Chan Ngau Sing's enemies went to the government to expose him as a revolutionary, causing him to flee to Hong Kong. If he was that outspoken, would not the government already know it?

mickey

[hskwarrior]

Hi,

In your u tube tribute you posted that Chan Ngau Sing's enemies went to the government to expose him as a revolutionary, causing him to flee to Hong Kong.

mickey

yeah that's common knowledge. that's why i said they would have chopped his head off.
yeah. sure. they would have known. that wouldn't have and didn't stop him. not in the least.
the hung sing kwoon of Cheung Hung Sing/Chan Sing was continuously closed down by the government.
this is also common knowledge. hung sing is called 'red martial arts" by the government.

[hskwarrior]

I don't know, i'm on the fence about this one. could this be an older version on the left of the younger version on the right? one obvious thing is the nose. but the shapes of the lips, eyes and eyebrows are pretty on point.

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[mickey]

Greetings,

hskwarrior,

The disconnect in the left eyebrow of both images are consistent with each other. Also, both images contain a similar forward tilt of the head. Also, the central figure has something internal going on because he is not reacting to the cold the way that the other two are. I see the consistency with the eyes. It is the left eyebrow that confirms it for me that they are one and the same.

If only I could hit the lottery like this.

By the was, I saw both group images up for sale (individually) at e bay a few years ago. Go figure.


mickey

[hskwarrior]

all good. the nose is my only issue, but someone said if it were broken then it's possible
i was thinking that at the same time he said it.

but everything other than the nose is pretty similar. this quest is pretty fun.

the fut san home base is pretty excited about this too. they also think i'm onto somethnig

[hskwarrior]

yeah he might have some good internal. i know the cold never used to bother me when i was younger.

[hskwarrior]

Mickey,

tell me what you think about this. that guy you noticed in the back looking off to the right, do you think he looks like the guy behind who i believe is chan sing (in the lighter clothes) to his right? he looks like the guy looking off to the right. i think...

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[mickey]

Hi,

I am a little confused by your instruction.

In the photo with the British guy, I think the person is Chan Ngau Sing. His paleness really throws things off; yet, he has the same shoulder misalignment as the other two images of him. I was wondering if he was injured and lost blood.

If my response does not answer your question please let me know.

Where did you get the image of the little boy? Was it from the photo with the British guy? That really throws things off time wise unless the boy is a son. Additionally, that photo had me wondering if Chan Ngau Sing was at least bilingual.

I am going to pass out. Catch you in the morning.


mickey

[hskwarrior]

THIS is what i was asking. do you think these two may look like each other?
i'm not sure but i'm learning more towards yes than no.

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[hskwarrior]

This is my suspicion

https://scontent-2.2914.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10407895_10152630001852732_2081386070301224283_n.j pg?oh=5d0d20d39854f6195ebf826f59820e71&oe=550D72C9

[mickey]

Greetings,

1 and 1:more than likely the same

2 and 2: Different. Maybe same family clan. The point that corresponds to the kidneys near the eyes differ in location.

3 and 3: Father and son. While it may not be mentioned in your oral histories, to declare a family would be a dangerous thing for a revolutionary to do. If you took a look at that boy, he has been well taken care of. He looks healthier that the others. And both he and Chan Ngau Sing appear apprehensive about being in that photo. The others are comfortable with it. For me there is a connection between the two: that Chan Ngau Sing has stepped forward in the boy's care and development in the absence of his father. Of course, this is speculative. But it explains the differences that you see when comparing the photo of him and the soldier standing in the center of the other photo.

Chan Ngau Sing's 3/4 turn really throws things off on how he looks. It makes him look much thinner than he really is.

In my opinion, the photo with the three standing soldiers would be older that the photo with the British guy.

mickey

[hskwarrior]

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[mickey]

Hi,

I thought so, too, until I saw where you got the image from. Never once did I ever view the center soldier image as YOUNGER than Chan Ngau Sing, even when I saw the photo on ebay a few years ago. I see the soldier photo as older that the group photo. In my opinion the center soldier is older by a bit, yet is very strong. I will still say father and son.

mickey

[hskwarrior]

I might agree to the father and son of the pic of the guy in the middle of the three guy photo. the one with the dai do. Chan Ngau Sing IMO is the guy on the left. now i'm trying to fit the faces of people in both pictures.

[hskwarrior]

For number 2: I think the pic on the left is prior to the one on the right. I think #2 looks older in the right side picture than the left. which might coincide with the father and son notion of #3.
I do believe #2 in both pics are the same person, just one older and one younger, because of the eyebrows, nose, and mouth area. it just kinda pops out. oh, also the chin for #2.

[hskwarrior]

The time frame i'm working with is the date of Cheung Hung Sing's passing in 1893 to Chan Sing's passing in 1926. no earlier no later.

[mickey]

Hi,

For photos number 2 are definitely not of the same person. The points that correspond to the kidneys are located differently on the face. One is located lower than the other. I agree the person in the left photo is much older. Additionally, he has a mustache. I suggested family clan member because of the strong similarities.

You may want to ask your contacts about whether there was someone that Chan Ngau Sing adopted or was custodian to. It will help identify the soldier in the middle. They might have something that will pull it together better than we can.

I was searching the net for more photos: no luck. One's best bet is to ask historians on that period. You made find out a lot more info and photographs.


mickey

[hskwarrior]

yeah that's happening now. they are better equipped to answer that than i am since the revolutions were in their country.

[mickey]

Great,

The identification of the boy is crucial in discovering who the center soldier is.

Correction to post 55 (in vertical capitals):

"I thought so, too, until I saw where you got the image from. Never once did I ever view the center soldier image as YOUNGER than Chan Ngau Sing, even when I saw the photo on ebay a few years ago. I see the soldier photo as older that the group photo. In my opinion the center soldier is older by a bit, yet is very strong. I will still say father and son."

[hskwarrior]

i'm witcha!

[David Jamieson]

Finally! Xinhai Revolutionaries that actually have rifles! :p

[hskwarrior]

Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut was heavily involved in the Xinhai revolution. Even in the movie bodyguards and assassins, one of the characters in the movie was a CLF guy in real life. not just hung sing but many CLF people were down for the cause. and yes they had rifles too.

[hskwarrior]

some people were trying to say that the boxer photo was a picture of imperial soldiers during the boxer rebellion.


Kung Fu historian Ben Judkins describes the first picture as a Qing police patrol, not a group of revolutionaries.

well turns out bud judkins is wrong about the photo and who was in it. The true source of the photo's existence is a japanese temple and was first published in 1956.

here is a picture of chinese imperial forces of 1900's side by side with the boxers. in fact, members of fut san hung sing were known for traveling to the north to aid in their revolutions.
Fut San Hung Sing has confirmed that the guy on the left is Chan Ngau Sing.

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[mickey]

Greetings,

Congratulations on the confirmation!


mickey

[hskwarrior]

Thanks........

[hskwarrior]

9246

Short Background info about this picture:


In Fut San before the liberation there were two opposing martial art factions. On one side you had the Hung Sing Kwoon and Chan Sing’s Lo Chung Lion Dance club along with Yuè ān shè, xié lián shè, yuǎn lián shè děng, yě chēng wèi shè zì pài. On the other side you have the rival factions of Xingyi (兴义), Qun Yi (群义) , Yong justice (勇义), loyalty (忠义), the British justice (英义) , Ju Yi Mo Kwoon (聚义武馆) merged together to form the “All Righteousness Society” and formed the Lion Dance Club called Zhāo Jìng (Hòu hébìng wèi “zhòng yì”) hé wàiwéi shī huì “zhāo jìng”). These two factions have been fiercely fighting for decades since the Qing Dynasty. Their disputes were not mere factionalism, but a battle between two progressive forces.

Fut San was a industrial center for art and handicrafts but closed down after the Opium War because of massive unemployment and were impacted by foreign goods. Because of political changes, inflation, and the threat of warlords made the peoples lives more difficult. On the other hand, the capitalists were reaping the rewards by colluding with the reactionary trade unions and the triad. The federation of trade unions in Guangzhou at the time were controlled by the Loyalty and Righteousness Martial Arts school who were used to oppress the workers. All of the people who wanted to stand against the oppression joined the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon or the Lo Chung Lion Dance group to learn self defense. The battles between these two factions were getting increasingly fierce.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Thank you for the history, hskwarrior.

Given that history, I took another look at the photo from a numbers perspective. It appears that the three guys each have three people with them, standing at their back. That would definitely put that boy in Chan Ngau Sing's company and it explains the slight turn of his body, acknowledging the people who were at his back, so to speak.


Question: Is there anything to suggest that Chan Ngau Sing is missing a finger on his left hand? I thought it was the cold forcing him to hide his hand in the military shot. In the seated group photo, two joints of his ring finger are exposed; yet, there is no pinky showing.


mickey

[hskwarrior]

no, its there...just hidden. look....

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[hskwarrior]

in regards to how Chan Sing is sitting in the picture, it's my opinion based on how he is sitting is his left foot is out in preparation of getting up quickly in case something were to happen. i've actually done that myself, that's why i'm assuming he ready to go if need be.

[mickey]

Hi,

Thank you for the photo enhancement.

mickey

[hskwarrior]

I think i've discovered who the boy is in this big group picture we're talking about. the following is possibly the older and younger version of the same person.
for me, the eyes, and nose are very similar. mouth looks different but both have a dip in the chin and their eyes are slanted the same way.
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[hskwarrior]

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[mickey]

Greetings hskwarrior,

The question would be the age of the drawing. And yes, there are many points of correspondence. Since you have the name, you know the father.

I thought the group shot would be in the middle. But you know better than I do.


EDIT: That drawing strongly suggests that there is at least another photo somewhere.


mickey

[hskwarrior]

In the group picture the back story tells us what time frame this picture took place thats why i posted between 1921-1926. Chan Sing died in 1926.

the one in the middle had a date printed on it originally and the date was 1915.

and the back story behind the three guys photo is from 1900

[mickey]

Like I said,

You know better.


mickey

[hskwarrior]

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[mickey]

Hi,

I thought it was already established that these photos are of Chan Ngau Sing.


mickey

[hskwarrior]

just posting more things to support the idea they are the same. yes our fut san folks have determined it to be all of the same person.
but i'm posting these things for any nay sayers. for example, some have thought the nose is different in image three...my response to that is
here is a video that proves the face changes shape based upon angle and lighting. you will notice that her facial features appear to alter upon the lighting. http://petapixel.com/.../trippy-video-shows-how-a.../

[Runlikehell]

just posting more things to support the idea they are the same. yes our fut san folks have determined it to be all of the same person.
but i'm posting these things for any nay sayers. for example, some have thought the nose is different in image three...my response to that is
here is a video that proves the face changes shape based upon angle and lighting. you will notice that her facial features appear to alter upon the lighting. http://petapixel.com/.../trippy-video-shows-how-a.../

Not only that, facial features appear to change based upon the colour of clothing people wear too so what you say is accurate.

[hskwarrior]

Not only that, facial features appear to change based upon the colour of clothing people wear too so what you say is accurate.

thank you sir

[mickey]

Greetings

I did some looking around the net. Wu Qin is the Mandarin. The Cantonese is Ng Kam. The Ng Family came from Toisan (according to Ng family history on Facebook). I found confirmation of Ng Kam and Choy Li Fut here:

https://sites.google.com/site/urbanochoylifat/historia

They may have a photo of him. Looking at the rank they give him, he was considered a high level practitioner.

mickey

[hskwarrior]

　吴勤 Wu Qin was a bad ass

[mickey]

Greetings,

hskwarrior,

I believe, as you have shared, that the painting and the person in the group photo are one and the same: Wu Qin/Ng Kam. I still believe that there are more photos of this person somewhere on the Mainland. People may have simply forgotten.

mickey

[hskwarrior]

you might be right. there is one other photo but looks different than this. but we never know till we look