Cheung Hung Sing: Founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu

[hskwarrior]

9244


Cheung Hung Sing


張炎公 佛山鴻勝館 (1824-1893)


FOUNDER OF THE FUT SAN HUNG SING KWOON, AND HUNG SING KUEN aka the Hung Sing method of Choy Lee Fut

Cheung Yim was his original name and he was born in the Sun Wui Dong Ling Village during the Qing Dynasty. His parents were murdered and he was under the care of his uncle Cheong Kwan. Starting at a very young age, Cheung Yim had a passion for learning the martial arts. His first teacher was the Shaolin Monk Lee Yau San-master of the Lee Ga system- and who is said perhaps to have been a disciple of Lee Sik Hoi-one of the 5 ancestors of the Hung Mun secret Society. In one version of the history, the government was after Cheong Yim for as we say “Draft Dodger.” The government was trying to recruit him into the military and he didn’t want to go. And if things weren’t bad enough, his uncle Cheung Kwan had to leave town on business and wouldn’t be able to take his young nephew with him. So, he came up with the idea of paying his old friend in King Mui a visit. His friend was a gung fu master and founder of a new fighting system. Hoping that his old friend could take in the young Cheung Yim, they set out for King Mui’s Chan Village.

Upon their arrival in King Mui, the two were met by Chan Heung, the chief gung fu instructor there. Cheung Kwan explained their situation but was faced with the unfortunate fact that those without the Chan Surname were not allowed to reside in their village much less learn their gung fu. But Cheung Kwan pleaded until Chan Heung devised a plan. He was able to take in the young boy, but only in the capacity of a groundskeeper. However, the young Jeong Yim wasn’t allowed to learn the gung fu from their village. An agreement was made and in 1836, Jeong Kwan left his young nephew with Chan Heung. During his daily chores, the young Cheung Yim watched as the students practiced their gung fu. Since he already was accomplished by the age of 12, he was able to pick up Chan Heung’s Choy Lee Fut rather quickly. At the time, Choy Lee Fut was based off of the styles taught by Monk Choy Fook, and Lee Yau San. He was already familiar with the Lee Ga system, which ironically they shared the same sifu. So at night time while everyone was sleeping, Jeong Yim would practice his stolen gung fu until he was caught in the act by Chan Heung.

It’s obvious that Chan Heung saw the great potential in Cheung Yim because for the next 5 years this late night training continued. Everything went smoothly during this time, but the one time Chan Heung went away, his senior disciples decided to point their attention at the outsider Jeong Yim. Believing Cheung Yim didn’t know gung fu at all, the senior disciples ultimately got him to fight them. Unfortunately for them, he whooped them pretty badly. This forced the parents of the senior students to order Chan Heung to kick out the outsider. Reluctantly, Chan Heung asked Cheung Yim to leave, but not before instructing him to go to the Pak Pai Mountain and locate a Shaolin Monk there to complete his training. So, in 1841, he left for the outskirts of Guangxi and found the Monk Ching Cho Wo Serng (Green Grass Monk) at the Pak Pai Mountain. He was accepted as a student and for the next 8 years (1841-1849) he learned the deadly art of Fut Gar Kuen. Monk Ching Cho or Green Grass Monk was a famous monk from the Shaolin Temple. In fact, at some point he was even the Abbott of the temple. After the destruction of the Southern Temple, Monk Ching Cho helped establish the Hung Mun Secret society. Therefore,the Green Grass Monk not only taught Cheung Yim gung fu, but he also instilled the revolutionary spirit within him.

Once Cheung Yim’s gung fu training was complete, the Green Grass Monk changed his first name of "Yim" to Hung Sing, which translates into Hung Mun Victory. The monk Ching Cho then instructed him to go to Fut San, contact the Hung Mun branch there and offer to help train their revolutionary fighters. For the next two years Cheung Hung Sing intensely trained his students strictly for combat. In 1851, he responded to the launching of the Tai Ping rebellion by organizing all of his Hung Sing Kwoon's throughout southern China and formally established his Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (Fut San Hung Victory).

The Tai Ping Rebellion ended in 1864 and many of the kung fu masters that were involved with this fled to Hong Kong, this included chan heung and Cheung Hung Sing. After doing my research, it is here that i believe they reunited and spent time with each other improving Chan Heung's Choy Lee Fut. In their meetings, Chan Heung treated Cheung Hung Sing as an equal because of their connection to the Hung brotherhood. In another version of the history, Chan Heung was supposed to train with monk ching cho but didn't get the opportunity. This was a great moment to finally learn some of his material. It was then that he shared what he learned from the Green Grass Monk with Chan Heung. Together, they evolved the Choy Lee Fut system to a new level this way. Since they were members of the Hung Mun, they created a set of techniques that would allow students from the various CLF branches to identify each other. One of the hand signals was the Left Handed Tiger Claw, this is representative of a certain individual within the Hung Mun. And in 1867, Cheung Hung Sing went back to Fut San and Chan Heung returned to King Mui. At the end of this period, chan heung and Cheung Hung Sing agreed to separately develop their respective systems. Choy Lee Fut would be further developed by Chan Heung's lineage in King Mui and the same with Cheung Hung Sing's lineage in Fut San. This is how the birth of the original "Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut" kung fu came into being.

The one major difference between what Chan Heung was teaching and Cheung Hung Sing was teaching is that Chan Heung's system was based on Choy Gar, Lee Gar, and Hung Kuen (The use of FUT GAR within the Chan Heung lineages TODAY as of Nov. 2014 is a modern attempt to blur the lines). Cheung Hung Sing's method is comprised of the Fut Gar Kuen, Lee Gar, Choy Lee Fut styles. The "Fut" in Chan Heung's Choy Lee Fut is NOT based on Fut Gar, it was based on the fact that all of Chan Heung's teachers were buddhist monks of the shaolin temple. Cheung Hung Sing is the person to put the "Fut Gar" or FUT in Choy Lee Fut. Back in Fut San, Cheung Hung Sing was busy rebuilding his school. He changed the old Hung Victory name to Great Victory and his method took on so fast that it eventually eclipsed the other styles in Fut San. He was pretty busy with the fact that he was the founder of a new Choy Lee Fut system, training freedom fighters, defeating all challengers, and running from the law.

Cheung Hung Sing had many, many students. But three of his oldest disciples were Lui Chun (guangzhou), Lee Yan, and Yuen Hai (Hong Kong). Other students included Tham Lup, Jeong Sam Bing, Wong Sei, Chun Mien, Lee So, Wong Fook, and Chan Ngau Sing. Senior disciple Lui Chun went on to produce Tam Sam-who became the founder of the Choy Lee Fut Buk Sing lineage. Through Lee Yan’s line the Singapore Hung Sing Kwoon was established, and Yuen Hai produced Lau Bun who became the founder of the first gung fu school on american soil, as well as the first Hung Sing Kwoon established there. Evidence of Jeong Hung Sing’s involvement with the Hung Mun is found in a number of places. The first is found in the pair of couplets ALL Hung Sing Kwoon’s use. The left side reads, “A strong fist releases out like a tiger raising its head” while the right side reads, “A graceful staff flies above like a dragon whipping its tail.” Now, when you string the first two words of each couplet together, it means “Hero” as in revolutionary hero. Another link is found in the set up of Cheung Yim’s alter and the way it was set up.

Cheung Hung Sing continued to develop his Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut and training freedom fighters for the rest of his life. His successor-Chan Ngau Sing-didn’t come into the picture until 1883 when he (Cheung Hung Sing) was about 60 years old. According to material passed down from the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon, Yuen Hai was responsible for recruiting Chan Ngau Sing, whom, at first was extremely skeptical of Jeong Hung Sing. He felt that he was actually better than this old gung fu master. However, the old Jeong Hung Sing matched up with Chan Ngau Sing and advised him to pay attention, because he’s going to fall first the to the east, then to the west, and finally down the center. At the end of three quick rounds, Cheung Hung Sing honored his word, and Chan Ngau Sing landed exactly where Jeong Hung Sing, this old dying relic, predicted he would. Chan Ngau Sing learned the hard way that this old master really was one of southern China’s greatest fighters and requested to be taken as a disciple.

In 1893, Cheung Hung Sing fell ill and Chan Ngau Sing tried to take him to see his own personal doctor. However, Cheung Hung Sing, founder of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon passed away due to this illness. As it’s passed down within the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon, Cheung Hung Sing left behind his wife (Chan Kay) and his two sons who died pretty young themselves. Chan Ngau Sing from that point on became the next inheritor of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.[/CENTER][/B]

[hskwarrior]

ON A SIDE NOTE:


9249

Cheung Hung Sing began teaching his gung fu in fut san in 1849-1851 on an underground level as he was designated to teach an army of fighters for the up and coming tai ping rebellion. He was a general of the Tai Ping Army. He officially established THE FIRST Hung Sing Kwoon 洪勝舘 (Great Victory School) in Fut San. Next is, Chan Din Foon didn't go blind until 1875. From 1867 - 1875 (7 years) Cheung Hung Sing re-opened his own school that was formerly known as 佛山洪勝舘 Fut San Hung Victory School (pronounced as Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon). Except this time, he changed the schools name to " Fut San Great Victory School" 佛山鴻勝舘. So, there's absolutely no way he was sent there by Chan Heung to become Chan Din Foon's successor."ALLEGEDLY" Until Chan Din Foon went blind in 1875, his schools name was "Great Saint School" 洪聖舘. This name is also pronounced as Hung Sing or Hung Shing. But you can clearly see that Cheung Yim's 洪勝/鴻勝 Hung Sing name is definitely NOT THE SAME as Chan Din Foon's 洪聖 Hung Shing or Great Saint name. He may have taken over the physical location of where Chan Din Foon may have (no proof yet) taught. But if he was chan din foon's successor he would not have changed the schools name and replaced it with his own. So that put to rest this idea that he succeded Chan Din Foon's Great Saint School.

[hskwarrior]

9258


On a narrow road on a hill, walks a 50 over years old man, though he is a little chubby but his pace was light and quick. As the old man traverse, a group of people emerge out of no where in the dark from both side of the road and yells "dont let him escape" while charging headlong on him. The old man sees the situation is not right and head to hide beside a rock. One guy from the mob found him eventually, he flying kick the guy, took his sword and charge into the mob. The mob was disoriented by this act.

The mob is quick to surround him however, and the mob lashes on him. The old man swung his sword as well, the scene is only seen with a lot of swords and shadows of it. None of the people was able to close in on the old man however, and a few of the mobs was even wounded by the old man. After some times into the duel, the old man sees the day will hit dawn soon and get dark, so he think of escapes. He took the initiative and lash forth a few mob and killing them, then yell.

The mobs sees there is no way they can win and withdraw while the old man escaped. As the mob sees the old man escape, they yell "dont let him escape" and give chase. the old man charge forth without giving any thought. As he almost make it to the woods, a young men appear and says " no worries sir, i am here to help". And the old man was pleased and say, lets hit them back together.

The duo put the mobs into a short work and send them running home with lot of casualties. After this is all over, the young man invite the old man to go to his village to took rest. And the old man follow the young man home, and serve him some tea. The young man introduce himself as Hung Sing, Surname Cheong. He goes on to ask why was the old man is being pursuit by a gang of people.

The old man says his name is Chan Hsiong, and he is on his way back from a wedding dinner from his relative's home. ANd this mob comes out of nowhere and block the way, and he thanks the young man for his aid. Hung SIng says, he is merely seeing this as helping people when they need. the young man says, 30 over mobs cant close in on him, this is no ordinary feats. CHan Hsiong goes on to explain the mobs is enemies of his, they attempted to rob his home and being beat off.

One of them cripled by me, which lead to the shot of revenge happened just now. Chan Hiong tells Hung SIng, he is learned many martial arts, he grow up in Xin Hui Jin Mei county, he learned Hung, Lau, Choi, Li, Mo and he learn Ling DOng party's Buddha fist. Chan Hsion goes on to tell Hung SIng about his past. In his 30s, he accidentally killed some one in Xinhui county and he escape to Singapore. and after Singapore gain independant, he goes live in low profile and no one knows about his skills and see him as an ordinary factory worker.

One day, a circus come to Singapore, and there is a strong man from Belgium name Cupeter, his heght is 12 feet and his waist is thick and his eye is as big as bells, a terrible sight indeed. the circus is coming from hagenbeck. has many shows, one of it being a performance by Cupeter, he lie on the ground and have a platform put over him. 5 horse then steps on the platform. and then he took off the platform and stand up unharmed. Cupeter is an arrogant man as well, he claim no one had ever defeated him ever trhough his journey through 5 continent.

He saw the chinese in Singapore is mostly short in stature, he put up a challenge. the challenge is that, if someone can put 3 punch into him and beat him off his feet will be awarded with 10 Dutch coin.

The chinese people in Singapore is rather offended. A member of GUang DOng Union's name is Ma Fu, 35 years old, he is a strong man as well. however, his height is only at the chest of cupeter. He says, he did learn some Hung fist during his childhood and he constantly practices with punching sandbags. He claim his punch over 200 catty, he will be able to knock Cupeter in just single punch. The union is delighted and promote him to take on Cupeter. THe circus is on show again soon, and is pack with people this time. With most comes to watch how will Ma Fu took on Cupeter.

As the usual circus show ended, Cupeter mock the chinese and put out challenges. Ma FU comes in to took the challenge and punch Cupeter. Cupeter is disoriented and falls down, as Ma Fu is standing there enjoying the crowd, Cupeter get back up and punch Ma Fu in his head. Ma FU is knocked out and Cupeter is pleased. As Cupeter want to step on the black out Ma Fu, Chan Hsiong jump in and punch CUpeter and knock him off.

Cupeter Mock and challenge him, Chan Hsiong reply and declare his intention is to come and defeat Cupeter. As Cupeter attempt to punch Chan Hsion, his punch is being doged by Chan Hsiong. Chan Hsion goes into savage mode. THe crowd sees Chan Hsiong's small stature and is no match to Cupeter and laughs. Chan Hsiong knows brute force of Hung Fist have little effect on Cupeter, so he decide to utilize Choi, BUddha and Li kung fu.

Chan Hsiong make a ruse and get on his back. Chan Hsiong get to his back, yelled " Go to hell" and his punch break the back of Cupeter. Cupeter spit out blood and falls on the ground. As the circus manager was shocked and goes to report to the police. CHan Hsion escapes and is aided by Melaka Guang Dong association.

The association bribe the police from issue the arrest warrant. The local chinese ask of CHan Hsiong's ability and his martial art style, Chan Hsiong says his martial art have kung fu from lot of different lineage. As some one suggest to combine the martial arts, Chan hsion sees that as a good decision and an oppoturnity to create a new martial art style. He working dligently on it and created the Choi Lee Fut at last. As such, he gained a lot of disciple and his martial art school is big.

He teaches his disciple diligently and he do this for 20 years. as he is old, he begun to miss his home town. as such he decided to goes home, and appoint trusted assistant to take over the martial art school. His student bid him farewell as most of them hold him dearly. He goes back to Hong Kong first. None of his freind in Hong Kong knows of what he did and his tales in overseas.

He bring with him a lot of money back to home. A nearby hill in Xing Hui nest a bunch of bandit, from 300 to 400 over people. THe hill names, Gu DOu mountain, the head of the bandit is one named Lam Dai Gau. he claims he is being teaches martial arts from a monk in his childhood. One day, he learned CHan Hsiong comes back with lot of money, he decided to rob him. and send Dan Ngan Keong to investigates this. Dan Ngan Keong is a major figure in the bandits gang as well. Dan NGan Keong disguise as a buyers of used goods and metal. as he goes around the town, he do reconaisanse on the area and Chan Hsiong's resident.

As they return to the bandit headquarter, Lam Dai Gau decide he will join the action himself. and the group of bandit divided into 30 people lead by Dan Ngan Keong, while 40 people lead by Lam Dai Gau. they carry out a 2 pronge attack into the village. Lam Dai Gau break into CHan Hsiong's house while Dan Ngan Keong break in from the front. Lam Dai Gau taste a surprise reprisal, as he break in from the roof, Chan Hsiong welcome him with sword in the darks. Lam Dai Gau is wounded by Chan Hsiong in the left arm. As Lam Dai Gau realized he is no match, he flee with his men.

Chan Hsiong found his wife and daughter is tied up and his home in disarray. No major losses however. Now, the villager had come to aid CHan Hsiong, though Chan Hsion did not give chase, he gather the vikllager and discuss the precautions with the villagers to avoid something like this occur again. Lam Dai Gau return to the mountain and count their loot, they only gott 300 teal of silver. this is less than what he expected, coupling with his left arm broken off.

this causes him grieves deeply. | He seek revenge and send someone to investigate on him and found he will leave to town on 6th. as such he arrange the ambush for the purpose of revenge. As the road to the town will pass through a narrow pass, the ambush works, and the begun the opening scene as being talked above. As Cheong Hung Sing found out Chan Hsiong is a person with high skill on martial art, he decide to keep him here and treat him a feast. they both get along very well despite the different of ages of both people.

Chan Hsion goes on to stay a few day in Cheong Hung Sing's home and they both exchange their kung fu with each other. Cheong Hung Sing ask guidance from Chan Hsiong, and wanted to be Chan Hsiong's disciple. Chan Hsiong is delighted and deiced to pass down his invented martial combining CHoi,Li and Buddha fist. and he had not find any worthy inheritor yet, he decided to pass it down to him as Chan Hsiong sees Cheong Hung Sing is a good man. and so goes the ceremony of Chan Hsiong accepting Cheong Hung Sing as disciple. Chan Hsiong teach Cheong Hung Sing everyday, as Cheong Hung SIng has a good foundation, he mastered everything CHan Hsiong teach in mere 6 month.

Chan Hsion told CHeoing Hung SIng that he is old and that he entrust Cheong Hung SIng to spread what he teached him. As CHeong Hung SIng as Chan Hsion where to being with, he told CHeong FOshan will be an excellent place for this. As Chan Hsion leaves, Cheong pack his belonging and head to FOshan to set up martial art school and teaches martial art in FO shan. He name after his own name and become one of the largest martial art school in Foshan today.

[hskwarrior]

Sometime between 1856 and 1867 Jeung Hung Sing returned to his home in Dong Ling Village and established a school where he passed on his art to his fellow clansmen. Originally it was called Hung Sing Jeung Kwoon because all of the teachers possessed the Jeung surname. In 1999 they changed their name to Dong Ling Hung Sing Kwoon. Below are two pictures. One of his schools in Dong Ling and a group of current Dong Ling Hung Sing Kwoon students.


9250

[hskwarrior]

9252...............


Chan Ngau Sing, also known as Chan Gok Choy, and Chan Gei Sing, and his nick name was Chan Mou Sing. He was born in Fut San on Ngar Pong St. in 1864. His ancestors came from a place called San Sui. As a young boy his gung fu career started with Hung Gar under a master named Chow Gum Biu. Since the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon under Jeong Yim opened, Jeong Yim had to face many challengers which was customary during that time and defeated all his opponents. His reputation quickly spread throughout all of southern China. With this in mind Master Chow Gum Biu suggested to Chan Sing that he should go and complete his training under such a master as Jeong Hung Sing.

Chan Ngau Sing dismissed his teachers recommendation because he was personally very proud of his own physical strength and marial arts prowess. Feeling that he was far better than most of the fighters in the area, and thought defeating Jeong Yim who was much older than him-would be easy. In 1883, Chan Ngau Sing was convinced to pay Jeong Hung Sing a visit. During their initial encounter Chan Ngau Sing challenged Jeong Yim to a match. But Jeong Yim told Chan Ngau Sing that he would defeat him in 3 rounds. And in each round, Jeong Yim dictated where Chan Ngau Sing would fall. First he said that Chan Ngau Sing would fall to the East, and he did. The second round Jeong Yim said to Chan Ngau Sing, "now you will fall to the west" and of course Chan Ngau Sing did. On the third round Jeong Yim told Chan Ngau Sing he would fall down in the middle, and one more time Jeong Yim was correct.

It was on the last fall that Chan Ngau Sing recognized the effectiveness of the Hung Sing Kwoon's fighting art, and especially that of Jeong Yim, even at his old age. Jeong Yim recognized the great potential of Chan Ngau Sing who proved to be a worthy disciple that practiced hard day and night to perfect his gung fu. Jeong Yim also instilled within Chan Ngau Sing his revlotionary spirit. Chan Ngau Sing learned the In and out bagua style that Monk Ching Cho taught to Jeong Yim. In this hand form, there were 1080 moves in it, and was the essence of the Green Grass Monk's system. Later on, because it was too long to teach to the newer students, Chan Ngau Sing broke up the In and Out Bagua into 3 separte hand forms used for fighting. They were called Ping Kuen, Cheung Kuen, and Kau Da Kuen.

Evil people was one of Chan Ngau Sing's pet peeves. He was an hornorable man who often treatment bad people as his personal enemies. Once, a well known tough bully from the Sing Tong name Ying Sha was one of those people Chan Ngau Sing despised. Ying Sha had more than 100 people under him, and he also enjoyed causing trouble where ever he went, and often took advantage of the villagers whenever he could. In Fut San at the Zhu Miao Ancestral Temple Ying Sha and his followers always took control over the first three rows in the audience. He and his roughnecks wouldn't allow anyone to sit in those rows without receiving a severe beating or even possibly killed.

On one of these occasions, someone ran to Chan Ngau Sing and informed him that Ying Sha and his group were at the Ancestral Temple causing trouble. Chan Ngau Sing was incensed, grabbed a pair of CLF hammers and rushed over to the temple and caught Ying Sha in the act. Single handedly, Chan Ngau Sing killed Ying Sha and his followers, then made a public announcement to the audience that the first three rows were now based on a First Come First Serve basis, making him sort of a local hero. By 1893 Chan Ngau Sing was running his own Hung Sing Kwoon in Fut San near his home, and Jeong Hung Sing would come to teach there on a regular basis. That same year (1893) Jeong Hung Sing fell ill and eventually passed away leaving Chan Ngau Sing the next head master of the Fut San Hung Sing Mo Kwoon.

Towards the end of the Ching Dynasty, Chan Ngau Sing would teach his students that "the strong should never bully the weak, and small groups should never bully individuals. He was a very strict teacher who installed a set of rules, and placed a strong emphasis on perfecting the basics. Chan Ngau Sing also made it a point to pesonally teach every single student for more than 30 years straight. Aside from gung fu, Chan Ngau Sing also had his own metals business, but that wasn't doing too well. And if that wasn't enough, once again the Chinese Government tried to arrest the members and close down the Hung Sing Kwoon. Yet this time, Chan Ngau Sing fled to Hong Kong and stayed with his Si-Hing Yuen Hai (Lau Bun's teacher). During his stay there, Chan Ngau Sing managed to beat up a British Police officer in Hong Kong and had to flee back into Fut San to avoid being arrested.

While back in Fut San Chan Ngau Sing began setting up some very strict rules. Personally he was against public Lion Dances because he felt it would bring too much attention to their school. So the Lui Chung and Hip Lien Lion Dance Societies were set up where he was the head master. However, all of the members of these two Lion Dance groups were secretly Hung Sing members which numbered over 10,000 students. In Fut San, Chan Ngau Sing's name carried much weight. His name was so famous that anyone wishing to open a school in the area regardless of who they belonged to always paid him a visit to ask his permission first.

Over time, Chan Ngau Sing changed his mind about teaching revolutionary groups. Many of his students were members of the Communist Workers and Farmers Unions. Most of his students wre forced to open Hung Sing Kwoons overseas to avoid being arrested as well. At the time, the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon was constantly in the local news. Some of Chan Ngau Sing's famous students were Qian Wei Fang, Wu Qin, Liang Hui Hua, Tong Sek, and more who were all involved in the revolution. Wu Qin became a revolutionary martyr, and bodyguard to Dr. Sun Yat Sen.

On October 13,1926 in the midst of all his poverty, Chan Ngau Sing passed away after falling ill and was buried in the Mong Ching Gong cemetary. There were more than 5000 people who attended his funeral. Today, his legacy is being carried on by his true bloodline. His Grand son and Great Grand Daughter (Cho Chi Han) who was born on December 29, 1985 and still resides in Fut San till this day, practicing the gung her great grand father passed down. Cho Chi Han was been entering and winning local competitions with her gung fu. Hopefully sometime in the future she would be able to step up and take over where he grand father, the legendary Chan Ngau Sing left off.

[hskwarrior]

All across the board it is unanimously agreed upon that Jeung Hung Sing was only 12 years old when he first came to train under Chan Heung. His age is very significant in properly placing him within the family tree of the Choy Lee Fut system. For years, there was some controversy over his actual birth date because no one really knew what age he passed away either. However, many new revelations about the founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut came with the re-emergence of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon in 2001. For example, we now know he was married, a father, and he had a duel with Wing Chun's Master Leung Jan. With all of the new information coming out of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon, we came to learn that Jeung Hung Sing died at the age of 69 years old in the year 1893. To figure out his birth year the logical thing to do at that time was subtract 69 years from 1893 which turned out to be the year 1824. The unanimously agreed upon age of Jeung Hung Sing was 12 years old and that would have placed him in the year 1836, the exact same year Chan Heung established his Choy Lee Fut system. In 1836 Chan Heung was only 30 years old, making him 18 years older than Jeung Hung Sing. Yet, after reading the accounts of some Choy Lee Fut schools it will leave you scratching your head.

In some accounts originating from Chan Heung's lineages they would have you believe that he was much older than Jeung Hung Sing. In fact, I've witnessed certain individuals interested in the history as well try to keep as much distance between them as possible in order to seem more credible. One of the ways they try to do this is by labeling Jeung Hung Sing as one of the last batch of Chan Heung's students in the year 1867. By doing this they are attempting to invalidate everything Jeung Hung Sing achieved prior to that year. In 1867 Chan Heung was 61 years old and by trying to place Jeung Hung Sing as his student within this time frame only, their objective becomes extremely clear. They wanted to paint a picture of a much younger Jeung Hung Sing learning from a much older version of Chan Heung. However, that just wasn't the case. The twelve year old Jeung Hung Sing was training under a 30 year old Chan Heung. This means there was only an 18 year difference between them and not something like 40- 50 years as they wanted everyone to believe.

At the age of twelve years old Jeung Hung Sing would have viewed Chan Heung as a grown up but certainly not as an elderly person. He trained under Chan Heung for five years until he was seventeen years old. Within that time, it's alleged that Chan Heung travelled around promoting his gung fu and he took Jeung Hung Sing along with him. This in fact makes sense because according to my lineages history Chan Heung was responsible for the young man during this time. And five years is indeed sufficient enough time to gain a solid understanding of Choy Lee Fut's foundational material. Now, the only known documentation of Jeung Hung Sing in Chan Heung's archives only mention that Jeung Hung Sing returned to Fut San in 1867 to re-open the Hung Sing Kwoon. The way it is written seems to infer that Chan Heung was the person who originally sent Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San to assume control of a Choy Lee Fut school that recently closed due to the master going blind. At the same time, ignoring the fact that historically Jeung Hung Sing is reported to have established his school in 1851.

Additionally, in 1864 Chan Heung was 58 years old and Jeung Hung Sing was 40 years old when the both of them fled to hong kong after the Tai Ping Rebellion was over. It was here that they reunited for the first time after 26 years. By this time, Chan Heung was well aware of Jeung Hung Sing's accomplishments and since they were both members of the Hung Mun branch that was founded by the Green Grass Monk he treated him like a brother instead of a former student. According to the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon history, Jeung Hung Sing taught Chan Heung some of the Fut Gar Kuen he learned from the Green Grass Monk. And, because he was influential in the further evolution of Chan Heung's creation our lineage refers to Jeung Hung Sing as a co-founder of sorts because of his contributions. However, this seemed to upset a few students under the Chan Heung banner. They began falsely accusing the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon lineages of trying to rewrite the history as THEY knew it. The only problem was, much of what they were trying to tell us about our own history didn't fit or add up at all.

Another Issue regarding the ages of both Jeung Hung Sing and Chan Heung was we two separate birth dates for Chan Heung. The King Mui lineages state he was born in 1806. The Fut San sources claim his real birth year was 1815. If this latter date is correct that makes Chan Heung only 9 years older than Jeung Hung Sing instead of an 18 year difference. I've also heard it said that they(King Mui) changed Chan Heung's birth year to make him look much older than Jeung Hung Sing. During my research I happened to come across a PDF file online that outlined Chan Heung's life. In the article it mentioned that Chan Heung was of a certain age when some kind of event took place. When I counted backwards from the date given, by their own account Chan Heung was born in 1815. I mentioned this on a kung fu forum and then next thing I knew the original author omitted that section immediately afterwards. The only explanation he gave was he made a mistake.

In conclusion, truth always prevails in the end. The Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon lineages have never budged in what has been taught to us in regards to our history. Nor have we ever tried to rewrite anything. The only thing we are doing is telling our side of the story as it was passed down to us via our elders. We are a proud bunch of students, masters and grand masters striving to keep our legacy intact and unadulterated.

Long Live Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut aka Hung Sing Kuen!!!!!

[hskwarrior]

It’s a well known fact that the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (佛山鴻勝蔡李佛)as founded by Jeung Hung Sing was one of the most famous martial art schools to emerge from southern China during the last 60+ years of the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911). Today (160 years later), the Hung Sing 鴻勝 name continues to hold a high level of prestige amongst the older generations of southern Chinese martial teachers and students. Even the government of Fut San recognized Jeung Hung Sing’s major contributions not only to gung fu, but, for protecting their country against foreign invaders as well. Now, you can find a Hung Sing “鴻勝”school on virtually every continent of the world. But, not many people remember or even know the true root to the Hung Sing name itself.

In every Chinese martial art community around the world its safe to say the Hung Sing “鴻勝” Chinese characters as we know it today are highly recognizable. However, reaching back to 1851 this Hung Sing “鴻勝” wasn’t the original name being used in those days. It came later and was used as the replacement characters and installed somewhere between 1867 when Jeung Hung Sing returned to re-open his school in Fut San, or, in 1875 when Chan Heung passed away. Either way, not too many students of today’s generation are aware of the origin of this name and naturally assumed it was the one given to Jeung Yim by the monk Ching Cho (Green Grass Monk).

The answer to the question of “where did Jeung Yim’s Hung Sing name come from?”, was discovered in one of the books published in 1866 by a certain European Free Mason, who, was interested in the Chinese secret society. In this case, the author personally documented what he found on the flags of the society by hand. The truth about its origins came in the form of a slogan consisting of only 4 Chinese words found on one of those flags. The only trick is, it takes someone with inside knowledge of the society to know what to look for and how to decipher it. Hiding things in plain sight to conceal its true meaning from prying eyes was a common practice amongst the Chinese secret societies.

From the moment the Qing government destroyed the Shaolin Temple (Circa 1760), killing the monks within it, overthrowing the Qing has been one of the Hung Mun’s primary goals since its existence. This is where the secretive slogan of four words come into play. The meaning behind it was “the Hung Mun will be victorious in overthrowing the Qing government.” You can arguably claim that the slogan was more in line with a prediction of victory more than anything else. Still, because of the government mandate that anyone presumed to be a member of the Hung Mun were to be decapitated on the spot, they were forced to hide this prediction within an obscured slogan.

The original Hung Sing (洪勝) name given to Jeung Yim by the Green Grass Monk meant Hung Victory and can also be translated as Victory to the Hung, as in Hung Mun. It was derived from the Hung Mun slogan and used as synonym for it. In addition to this, the Hung Sing (洪勝) name shares the exact same greater meaning of “the Hung Mun will be victorious in overthrowing the Qing government” with the four worded slogan. Furthermore, this name wasn’t something created by Jeung Yim as it was already in use elsewhere, nor, was it exclusively used by him. For instance, a 洪勝堂 (Hung Sing Tong) already existed in the mountains of Guangxi where 60 out of 100 secret society tongs contained the word Sing ”勝”or Victory in their names. in 1854 there was already a 佛山洪勝堂 Fut San Hung Sing Tong established.

In 1867 Jeung Hung Sing returned to Fut San to re-open his school that was closed down by the Qing government. Somewhere between 1867-1875 Jeung Yim needed to change the name of his school in order to avoid futher trouble with the law. According to certain Chan Family Choy Lee Fut members he asked Chan Heung for help in choosing a new name, but, since there are no records of this its difficult to verify. Regardless, he changed his schools name to 鴻勝 (Hung Sing) while keeping the “Hung”pronunciation by replacing the original “洪” (Hung) character.

Jeung Yim’s decision to use this character was well thought out for a few of reasons. First, the new “鴻” (Hung – lit. Trans. - Great Wild Goose) character didn’t have a visual connection to the outlawed secret society to a spectator. “洪 & 鴻” are h0m0ynms and both translate as "Great". However, there is more to the new character than meets the eye. Secondly, on the left side of both characters “洪 & 鴻” the three water drops (氵) are found. This was a hidden symbol used by the secret society. Thirdly, another secret symbol used by the tong founded by the Green Grass Monk was for the word Sau meaning “Longevity.” The new “鴻” (Hung – lit. Trans. - Great Wild Goose) character also has a connection to the word “Longevity” since this is what the Wild Goose represents within the Chinese Culture.

Masters like Lui Chun, Yuen Hai, and Lee Yan were Jeung Yim’s students when the school was using the original 洪勝 (Hung Sing-Hung Victory ) name, while in 1884 Chan Ngau Sing began training with Jeung Yim when the school was already using the new 鴻勝 (Hung Sing – Great Wild Goose) characters. From that point to the present, the old name had long been forgotten and the new one gained fame throughout the world. Today, you can find a 鴻勝 school on virtually every continent on the planet. And, since 2001 the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (佛山鴻勝蔡李佛), the birthplace of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut, has re-emerged into the martial world the legacy of Jeung Yim is once again regaining its popularity. I know if Jeung Yim was watching over us he’d be extremely proud to see his fighting method flourishing like it is, Long Live Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut.

In the past, some have tried to claim that the original Hung SIng of Cheung Hung Sing was Hung Victory“洪胜” because it was too dangerous. But below is a rare photo and news article on TAM SAM while he was alive. Circled you will notice that his schools name was “洪胜堂舘” Hung VIctory Tong Kwoon. This is supporting evidence that Cheung Hung Sing's original schools name was “洪胜” Hung Victory that was given to him by the Green Grass Monk

9259

[hskwarrior]

9255

The Pak Pai Mountain was the place Chan Heung sent Cheung Yim to complete his gung fu training in 1841. For many many years this mountain was thought to be either lost or it just didn't exist. The Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon descendants knew of this mountain but no one knew where it was exactly. Just that it was in or around the Guangxi/guangzhou area. Some masters have claimed to search for this mountain and couldn't find it, leading to their own assumption it was a myth. However, this mountain was also part of the Hung Fut style's history leading us to think all we have to do is keep looking until we find it.

Eventually, i found it online in 2014. It turns out that it was exactly as we thought. The Pak Pai Mountain sits right outside the border of Guanxi and is a well known tourist attraction, putting an end to the notion that this mountain was just a made up story. It was at this mountain location that the Green Grass Monk instructed Cheung Yim in the art of Fut Gar Kuen. Then the Green Grass renamed Cheung Yim as Cheung Hung Sing and instructed him to go to the city of Fut San to make contact with the leaders of Fut San's secret society in order to train their revolutionary fighters. He became a general in the armies under Li Wen Mao. At the same time, Chan Heung was training fighters under his village mate Chan Song.

[hskwarrior]

By Sifu Frankie McCarthy

Hung Sing is a name completely synonymous with that of the Choy Lee Fut gung fu system. Internally, Choy Lee Fut of today is primarily comprised of three main branches. Two of the branches share the name "Hung Sing" although this single name has four different definitions. The third branch is the Buk Sing branch that eventually broke off from the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon founded by Jeung Hung Sing. For the sake of this article I want to focus on the Hung Sing name, especially since Choy Lee Fut isn't where this name originated.

First let's talk about Chan Heung's "Hung Sing" school name. According to the history of the Chan Family lineages when Chan Heung completed his training under monk Choy Fook, in 1836 he returned to King Mui to set up a school in his ancestral village. He chose to call it "Hung Sing" (洪聖) which translates into "Great Sage" or "Holy" and is also in reference to a southern Chinese Deity Hung Shing (洪聖), also known as Hung Shing Ye (洪聖爺) in addition to Tai Wong (大王). This deity's real name was Hung Hei (洪熙), a righteous government official.

At the same time, the Chinese Secret Society was notorious for their play on words. Synonyms, ****nyms, and metaphors were common tools used by them to get their messages across right under the noses of the Qing government. In fact, "Hung Sing" (洪聖) was also ****nym in reference to the Ming Emperor who was also known as "Hung Wu". However, I highly doubt Chan Heung chose this name in honor of the Ming Emperor, nor does it have any connection to the Hung Mun because Chan Heung established hi school in 1836 and didn't get involved with anyone from the secret societies until the Opium Wars (1839-1842) broke out.

The original "Hung Sing" (洪勝) name of Cheung Yim, aka Cheung Hung Sing may share the same pronunciation of Chan Heung's school, but, in comparison it's appearance and definition is completely different in every way. His schools name literally translated as "Hung Victory" and originates from the Hung Mun. It was given to Cheung Yim by his 3rd teacher Monk Ching Cho upon completion of his training. This name is the abridged version of its greater meaning of "The Hung (洪) will be Victorious (勝) in overthrowing the Qing Dynasty". The Monk Ching Cho gave Cheung Yim this name as a constant reminder to fight for righteous cause.

In 1851 Cheung Hung Sing and his Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon participated in the Tai Ping revolution which lasted until 1864. From 1864-1867 the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon was closed down while Cheung Hung Sing hid out in Hong Kong until things cooled off a bit. He returned to Fut San in 1867 but needed to rename his school if he wanted to re-open it. He kept the word "Sing" (勝) meaning "Victory" as it is a word heavily related to the Hung Society. He replaced the old "Hung" (洪) with another "Hung" (鴻) word that meant "Goose" but, also means "Great" or "Glorious" as well.

The two Hung Sing names (洪勝/鴻勝) used by Cheung Yim were derived directly from the Hung Mun and utilized as an abridged version of their Mission Statement as mentioned above. In addition to that, Cheung Yim's original "Hung Sing" (洪勝) was also used as a name for a Tien Di Hui Tong in Guangxi. And, even today there are certain Triad based groups that use this name as well. To clear up any misconceptions about this name, it was never used as a rally cry neither for the Hung Mun or Choy Lee Fut fighters. It was given to Cheung Yim by Monk Ching Cho, a co-founder of the Hung Mun.
The only time Chan Heung used a name containing the word "Victory" is when he opened a medical clinic. He called it the "Wing Sing Tong" (永勝堂) or the Tong of Eternal Victory. Allegedly, this was not a martial arts school. It was reported to be a medical clinic. However, there are modern day Choy Lee Fut students who currently use this name.

Chan Koon Pak, the second son of Chan Heung, opened his own martial arts school. Instead of using the "Hung Sing" (洪聖) that his father was using, he was using the "Hung Sing" (鴻勝) of Cheung Yim's lineage. As the latter was constantly in the news Koon Pak decided it was time to disassociate his school with that of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (佛山鴻勝舘) and changed his schools' name to a different "Hung Sing" (雄勝) meaning "Strong" or "Heroic" Victory. This name is an offshoot of Cheung Yim's name which would give it a semi-relation to the Hung Mun. The only connection to Koon Pak's father's school is by pronunciation alone, while its appearance, definition, and essence are not something they shared together.

Currently, there is a push to attach Chan Heung's Hung Sing (洪聖) to the Hung Mun. They have even introduced a new idea of "天下洪圣是一家" (All Hung Sing is one family). Inferring that "洪勝, 鴻勝, and 雄勝 " are somehow a by-product of this Hung Sing (洪聖). As if Chan Heung was the person leading the way for all of Choy Lee Fut in the Hung Mun. Nothing could be further from the truth.

First of all, "天下洪圣是一家" (All Hung Sing is one family) is borrowed from Hung Mun's slogan "天下洪門是一家" (All Hung Mun is one family). Therefore, with intended repetition, Hung Sing (洪聖) is in reference to both a Deity's Temple and to Emperor Hung Wu. The Temple has nothing to do with the Hung Mun. Hung Wu, is not a member, but, is at the forefront of the Hung Mun society. Hung Wu could be likened to a patron Saint to the society.

However, Cheung Yim's and Chan Koon Pak's Hung Sing (鴻勝, 雄勝) names are in reference to a "Victory" of some sort. And in this case, is in fact in direct relation to the Hung Society and their goal to overthrow the government. Unlike Chan Heung's Hung Sing (洪聖) which is clearly in reference to an individual, whether it be the southern Chinese Deity or Emperor Hung Wu. When taking this into consideration, I fail to see how "Hung Sing (洪聖)" could be the inspiration to these Hung Sing's (鴻勝, 雄勝). There is absolutely no direct relation with Chan Heung's Hung Sing name to the purpose and cause of the name given to Cheung Hung Sing by Monk Ching Cho.

"天下洪圣是一家" (All Hung Sing is one family), regardless if it was borrowed from the Hung Mun, is an awesome notion. Although, I believe 天下蔡李佛是一家 (Choy Lee Fut is one family) is a far better choice of words as it encompasses the true Choy Lee Fut of today as we know it. The Choy Lee Fut that is comprised of gung fu created and passed down through the branches of Chan Heung, Cheung Hung Sing, and Tam Sam. But if we followed the idea of all Hung Sing (洪圣) being one family, that would unfortunately exclude Cheung Hung Sing and Tam Sam since neither ever used this Hung Sing (洪圣) name. Not even Chan Koon Pak possessed the same Hung Sing (洪圣) used by his own father.

In conclusion, attempting to infer that all of Choy Lee Fut's "Hung Sing" (Hung Victory (洪勝), Glorious Victory (鴻勝) and Heroic Victory (雄勝) ) names were derived from Chan Heung's Hung Sing (洪圣) is extremely misleading and completely untrue. The truth needs to be told for the future generations of students to carry on with pride. It is up to us to research, ask questions, and discover the treasures the great system of Choy Lee Fut has to offer. That includes the Chan Family, Fut San Hung Sing, and Buk Sing Choy Lee Fut branches. For without them, Choy Lee Fut wouldn't be as famous as it is today.

[hskwarrior]

9271



Here is an excellent Animation/documentary about Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut founder, Cheung Hung Sing and his Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzYyMDU1MTM2.html


http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzYyMDU1MTM2.html

[PalmStriker]

:) Watched the vid, a nice introduction to the CLF Style.

[hskwarrior]

yeah it was awesome!

[Jimbo]

Thanks for posting the animated film! I enjoyed it! It's also interesting how they inserted some footage of Alexander Fu Sheng performing CLF from New Shaolin Boxers (a.k.a., Choy Lee Fut Kid).

[hskwarrior]

Yeah, makes me proud to be Hung Sing.
loved the fact our lineage in SF was mentioned too.

[hskwarrior]

While the system of Choy Lee Fut is roughly 200 or so years old, the actual history of it needs a tune up. The huge gaping holes in our history need to be properly repaired in order to benefit the future generations. It is our duty as senior disciples and leaders to pass on the Choy Lee Fut legacy with honesty and integrity. Only then can the Choy Lee Fut fraternity unite and show there world how great of a family we really are. However, there are too many inconsistencies on the historical side that cannot continue to go unnoticed and only the truth can set us free.

In this case, I am going to speak on a break down in our history in regards to when Cheung Hung Sing actually trained under Chan Heung. First, I will say that the only documented interaction between Chan Heung and Cheung Hung Sing stated (Not Verbatim) in “1867 Cheung Hung Sing returned to Fut San to re-open his Hung Sing Kwoon”. For some reason, this comment has lead some people to believe that 1867 was the very first year of Cheung Hung Sing’s arrival to the city of Fut San. Additionally, someone has tried to lead people to believe that it was Chan Heung who was the one to send Cheung Hung Sing there because of it. Yet, nothing is further from the truth.

The actual years Cheung Hung Sing aka Cheung Yim trained under Chan Heung was from 1836-1841. How do we know without actual proof? Well, both sides of King Mui and Fut San agree that Cheung Hung Sing was 12 years old when he trained with Chan Heung. Taking the fact that Cheung Hung Sing was born in 1824 he would have been 12 years old in 1836 (1824+12 = 1836). With 1836 being the formational stages of CLF, Cheung Hung Sing was part of Chan Heung’s earliest groups of students and not part of his last batch of students in 1867.

So, in order to set the record straight, let me analyze Chan Heung’s entry of Cheung Hung Sing in his archives, “1867 Cheung Hung Sing returned to Fut San to re-open his Hung Sing Kwoon.” But, first, let me say that our history of our own founder, which is also recorded by the city of Fut San, asserts that Cheung Hung Sing officially established his own school in Fut San in the year of 1851. In comparison to the Chan Heung’s entry of 1867, his archives don’t explain how it was possible for Cheung Hung Sing to have a school established 16 years prior to his entry. Still, once you think about it, Chan Heung didn’t make a mistake in his entry at all. He was in fact, 100% correct with his entry as Cheung Hung Sing did actually return to Fut San to “re-open” the school he had to close down in 1864.

At the behest of the Green Grass Monk, Cheung Hung Sing travelled to Fut San in 1849, started to train massive numbers of freedom fighters and in 1851, he officially established his Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon just in time for the Tai Ping Rebellion. The Tai Ping rebellion ended in 1864 and many of the southern Chinese freedom fighters fled to Hong Kong to avoid prosecution for their involvement of the revolution. It was in Hong Kong that Chan Heung and Hung Sing reunited. And, in 1867 after things cooled off in China, they both agreed to return to their respective towns to develop the Choy Lee Fut system separately from one another. Hence, Chan Heung’s entry of “1867 Cheung Hung Sing returned to Fut San to re-open his Hung Sing Kwoon” was in regards to him opening his own school.

In conclusion, all of the above is just an example of the huge discrepancies that plague the history of Choy Lee Fut. It is not an effort to destroy CLF by cleaning it up. It’s indeed an effort to keep it shiny and bright. Like an eternal monument to the great legacy of Choy Lee Fut, the worlds most popular style of Chinese Gung Fu.

[hskwarrior]

Information stemming from the King Mui lineages claim that Chan Heung sent Cheung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San in 1867 to become Chan Din Yuen’s successor because he went blind and could no longer teach. However, this claim is completely misleading. Why, you ask? Simply, because allegedly, Chan Din Yuen didn’t go blind until 1875. So, how could Cheung Hung Sing become the successor of this “Great Sage” Hung Sing Kwoon in 1867 when Chan Din Yuen still had full function of his eyes in 1867? Does that make sense? Taking over a school of a teacher who went blind, but didn’t actually lose his sight until 8 years after Cheung Hung Sing’s return to Fut San?! That sounds really fishy if you ask me.

In the history of Fut San, Cheung Hung Sing’s Hung Sing Kwoon is the only one mentioned over and over. Now, I’ve yet to find evidence that the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon of today was ever a studio teaching Chan Heung’s Choy Lee Fut under the Fut San Great Sage School 佛山洪圣馆 prior to Cheung Hung Sing using the location for his school. The King Mui’s account says Cheung Hung Sing removed the Hung Sing 洪圣 name of Chan Din Yuen and replaced it with his own Hung Sing 鴻勝 name. If you think about it, if Cheung Hung Sing was sent to be Chan Din Yuen’s successor then there would be absolutely no reason for Cheung Hung Sing to remove the schools original name and replace it with his own. I mean, you just step up and keep it running under the same name. However to me, if that is what Cheung Hung Sing did, it tells me that the Great Sage School no longer existed and it was now his Great Victory School.

Furthermore, the Great Sage Hung Sing under Chan Din Yuen was allegedly established in 1848 and Cheung Hung Sing began teaching in Fut San in 1849. If this is true, then why is Cheung Hung Sing the only one mentioned as the primary Choy Lee Fut school in the history of Fut San?

To conclude, the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon dismisses the claim of Cheung Hung Sing being the successor of Chan Din Yuen’s Great Sage School, nor has it ever made it into our history. Sure, Cheung Hung Sing may have taken over the physical location of what “might have been” a school once owned by Chan Din Yuen but he was never his successor. Anything to the contrary is purposely misleading the public in my opinion.

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzctyxlUnHM

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvt3O98zcaE

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBIHrvXC58g

[hskwarrior]

Jeung Ah-Yim's father was a stone mason working in Hong Kong when he met Chan Heung (Chan Heung was invited there by the Guangdong Village Association), he was impressed by Chan Heung's skill after he defeated a Russian boxer and wanted his son to study with Chan Heung.

Jeung Ah-Yim's father gave him the nick name Hung Sing (Victorious Hung) 洪勝 very early on and was never used as a CLF branch name like you insisted, because he taught his boy Hung Kuen very young and wanted him to grow up to be a winner with his Kung Fu study.

The first comment is 100% incorrect in regards to Cheung Hung Sing. Our lineages version states his parents were killed prior to Cheung Hung Sing turning 12 Years old. This information didn't come from Chan Heung and nor was it written in his personal documentation of his Choy Lee Fut style. In fact, there's only one single entry in his archives about Cheung Hung Sing returning to Fut San in 1867. Therefore, i can't trust anything two generations later that doesn't come from my direct lineage.

The part about the 洪勝 Hung Victory being a nickname given to Cheung Yim by his father wanted him to grow up and be a winner is a complete falsehood. the 洪勝 Hung Victory name belongs to the Hung Mun and was a name given to him by Monk Ching Cho, who was a co-founder of the Hung Mun.

[Eric Olson]

If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one to hear it, does it still make a sound?

[hskwarrior]

9298


stfula

[hskwarrior]

9299..............................

[hskwarrior]

Jeung Hung Sing History in Spanish


Written by Sifu Frank McCarthy
Translated by Maria Arias

Jeong Ah Yim era su verdadero nombre y nació en el distrito de Sun Wui en la villa Dong Ling durante la dinastía Qing. Sus padres fueron asesinados y el estuvo bajo los cuidados de su tío Jeong Kwan. Desde muy joven Jeong Yim tuvo una enorme pasión por aprender artes marciales. Su primer profesor fue el monje Shaolin Lee Yau San, maestro de Lee Ga, de quien se dice que pudo ser discípulo de Lee Sik Hoy, uno de los 5 ancestros de la sociedad secreta Hung Mun.

El gobierno iba tras Jeong Yim y este les esquivaba, ya que pretendían reclutarle para la milicia y Jeong Yim no quería ir. Por si las cosas no estaban lo suficientemente mal, su tío Jeong Kwan tuvo que dejar la ciudad por negocios y no pudo llevarse a su joven sobrino con él. Así, se le ocurrió hacerle una visita a un viejo amigo en King Mui. Este amigo era un maestro de kung fu y fundador de un nuevo estilo de pelea. Esperando que este viejo amigo pudiera hacerse cargo del joven Jeong Yim, partieron hacia la Villa Chan de King Mui.

A su llegada a Kung Mui fueron recibidos por Chan Heung, el instructor jefe de kung fu del lugar. Jeong Kwan le explico su situación pero se encontró con el desafortunado hecho de que aquellos sin el apellido Chan se les permitía vivir en la villa pero no aprender su kung fu. Jeong Kwan rogó hasta que a Chan Heung se le ocurrió un plan. Se quedaría con el chico pero este sólo podría ser el jardinero. Sin embargo, al joven Jeong Yim no se le permitió aprender el kung fu de la villa. Llegaron a este acuerdo y en 1836 Jeong Kwan dejó a su joven sobrino con Chan Heung.

Durante sus tareas diarias, el joven Jeong Yim miraba a los estudiantes practicando su kung fu. Dado que ya había cumplido los 12 años, era capaz de pillar el Choy Lee Fut de Chan Heung bastante rápido. Por aquel entonces el Choy Lee Fut estaba basado en los estilos enseñados por el monje Choy Fook y por Lee Yau San. Jeong Yim ya estaba familiarizado con el sistema Lee Ga, ya que, irónicamente, compartían el mismo sifu. Así que por la noche, mientras todo el mundo estaba durmiendo, Jeong Yim practicaba su kung fu robado hasta que un día fue descubierto por Chan Heung.

Es obvio que Chan Heung vio el gran potencial de Jeong Yim porque durante los siguientes 5 años este entrenamiento nocturno continuó. Todo discurrió de forma placida durante ese tiempo, pero en una ocasión Chan Heung salió y sus discípulos mayores decidieron poner su atención en el forastero Jeong Yim. Creyendo que Jeong Yim no sabía kung fu en absoluto, los discípulos le pidieron que pelease con ellos. Desafortunadamente para ellos, Jeong Yim les dio una buena paliza. Esto hizo que los padres de los estudiantes le ordenaran a Chan Heung que echase al forastero.

Reticente, Chan Heung le pidió a Jeong Yim que se marchase, pero no antes de instruirle para que fuera a la montaña Pak Pai y localizase a un monje shaolin para completar su entrenamiento. Así, en 1841 Jeong Yim salió hacia Guangxie y encontró al monje Ching Cho Wo Serng (El monje de la hierba verde) en la montaña Pak Pai. Este lo aceptó como su estudiante y durante los siguientes ocho años (1841-1849) Jeong Yim aprendió el letal arte del Fut Gar Kuen.

El monje Ching Cho o monje de la Hierba Verde fue un famoso monje del Templo Shaolin. De hecho, en algún momento fue incluso el abad del templo. Después de la destrucción del templo del sur, el monje Ching Cho (de quien también se cree que era “Fong Dai Hung”, es decir, uno de los 5 ancestros de los Hung Mun) ayudó a establecer la sociedad secreta Hung Mun. Por lo tanto, el monje de la Hierba Verde no sólo enseñó a Jeong Yim kung fu, si no que implantó en él el espíritu revolucionario.

Una vez que el entrenamiento de kung fu de Jeong Yim se completó, el monje de la Hierba Verde cambió el nombre de Jeong Yim a Jeong Hung Sing, que se podría traducir como “Victoria de los Hung Mun”. Entonces le dio instrucciones para que fuera a Fut San, contactara con la rama Hung Mun de allí y ofreciera su escuela para ayudar a entrenar a los luchadores revolucionarios. Durante los dos años siguientes Jeong Hung Sing entrenó a sus estudiantes estrictamente para el combate. En 1851, Jeong Hung Sing respondió al alzamiento de la rebelión Tai Ping organizando todas sus escuelas Hung Sing del sur de China y estableciendo formalmente su Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

Justo antes de esto, Jeong Hung Sing volvió a King Mui donde Chan Heung le dio una cálida bienvenida. En sus encuentros, Jeong Hung Sing compartió con él lo que había aprendido del monje de la Hierba Verde. Pero cuando Jeong Hung Sing volvió a Fut San, él y Chan Heung empezaron a desarrollar de forma separada el estilo Choy Lee Fut. Mientras que el Choy Lee Fut de Chan Heung se basó en los estilos Choy y Lee Ga, con el “Fut” añadido para representar sus raíces shaolin y budistas, el Choy Lee Fut de Jeong Hung Sing se desarrolló basándose en las enseñanzas de Lee Yau San, de Chan Heung y del monje Ching Cho. En esencia, Jeong Hung Sing fue quien puso el “Fut” al Choy Lee Fut.

Poco después de abrir el Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon, la efectividad del estilo de pelea de Jeong Hung Sing se extendió rápidamente por todo el sur de China como un incendio. Él estaba bastante ocupado por el hecho de haber fundado un nuevo sistema de Choy Lee Fut, de estar entrenando a luchadores libres, venciendo en desafíos y huyendo de la ley. Como el “Hung” de su nombre era el mismo que el de los Hung Mun, el gobierno le perseguía, y le cerraron la escuela en más de una ocasión. Cada vez que esto sucedía, Jeong Hung Sing y sus discípulos reabrían Hung Sing Kwoons en cualquier otro lugar.

Jeong Hung Sing tuvo muchos, muchos estudiantes. Tres de sus discípulos más antiguos fueron Lui Chun, Lee Yan y Yuen Hai. Otros estudiantes fueron Tham Lup, Jeong Sam Bing, Wong Sei, Chun Mien, Lee So, Wong Fook y Chan Ngau Sing. Su discípulo Lui Chun fue quien enseñó a Tam Sam, quien se convirtió en el fundador de la rama Buk Sing de Choy Lee Fut. La rama de Hung Sing de Singapur se estableció a través de Lee Yan y Yuen Hai entrenó a Lau Bun quien se convirtió en el fundador de la primera escuela de kung fu en el continente americano, así como la primera escuela Hung Sing del lugar.

En 1864, la Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon fue cerrada otra vez. En esta ocasión, Jeong Hung Sing voló a Hong Kong donde se quedó hasta 1967. En ese año, cuando pensó que las cosas se habían calmado, volvió a Fut San y reabrió su Hung Sing Kwoon. Llegados a este momento, Jeong Hung Sing tuvo que cambiar el “Hung” de su nombre a algo que sonara igual pero tuviera distinto significado*. El nuevo Hung que usó significaba “Ganso Salvaje” ya que en la cultura china el ganso representa la longevidad y puede que quizá tuviera otro significado secreto que significase “larga vida a los Hung Mun”.

Se han encontrado evidencias de la relación de Jeong Hung Sing con los Hung Mun en numerosos lugares. La primera la vemos en el par de poemas que todas las escuelas Hung Sing usan. En la de la izquierda se lee “Soltar el puño como el tigre cuando levanta la cabeza” mientras que en la de la derecha se lee “Mover el palo en el aire como el dragón cuando sacude la cola “. Ahora bien, cuando juntas los dos primeros caracteres de cada poema, se puede leer “héroe”, como en “héroe revolucionario”.

Otro lazo de unión se encuentra en la construcción del altar de Jeong Yim. Una auténtica escuela basada en los Hung Mun debe tener un altar, una mesa en frente de él y dos sillas. Una es para el Maestro y la otra para el discípulo más destacado.

La siguiente confirmación de la conexión con los Hung Mun se descubrió en las paredes de la escuela de Jeong Hung Sing.
En la primera línea se puede leer: La gran ave extiende sus alas como una mano abierta
La segunda dice: el alumno que excede tanto que su fama perdurará por siempre
En la tercera leemos: Saludos a los hermanos dentro de los 5 lagos y los 4 mares

Y en la cuarta pone: el sol brillará durante generaciones

Entre estas líneas se puede leer el lema de la sociedad secreta Hung Mun “FAN CHING FU MING” lo que se traduce como “Derrocar a los Ching, restaurar a los Ming”

Jeong Hung Sing continuó desarrollando su Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut y entrenando a luchadores libres durante el resto de su vida. Su sucesor, Chan Ngau Sing, no apareció hasta 1883 cuando Jeong Hung Sing tenía unos 60 años. De acuerdo con el material recogido de la Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon, Yuen Hai fue el responsable de reclutar a Chan Ngau Sing, quien, al principio, era extremadamente escéptico acerca de Jeong Yim. De hecho el sentía que era mejor que su viejo Maestro de kung fu. Sin embargo, el viejo Jeong Hung Sing aceptó pelear con él advirtiéndole que debía prestar atención pues iba a caer primero hacia el este, después hacia el oeste y finalmente en el centro.

Al final de tres rápidas rondas, Jeong Hung Sing había hecho honor a su palabra y Chan Ngau Sing había caído justo donde Jeung Hung Sing, esa vieja reliquia, había predicho. Chan Ngau Sing aprendió de la forma más dura que su viejo Maestro era de verdad uno de los más grandes luchadores del sur de China y pidió ser tomado como discípulo.

En 1893, Jeong Hung Sing enfermó, y Chan Ngau Sing intentó llevarle a ver a su médico personal. Sin embargo, Jeong Hung Sing, fundador del Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon falleció de esta enfermedad. Tal y como se cuenta en la Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon, al morir, Jeong Hung Sing dejó mujer (Chan Kay) y dos hijos, quienes murieron muy jóvenes. Desde ese momento Chan Ngau Sing se convirtió en el siguiente heredero de la Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

[hskwarrior]

El Choy Lee Fut no es dueño del nombre “Hung Sing”


Escrito por Sifu Frank McCarthy

(Translated by Julio Delgadillo of Mexico Hung Sing Kwoon)

Hung Sing es un nombre que actualmente aparece como sinónimo con el sistema de Kung Fu conocido como Choy Lee Fut. Internamente, el Choy Lee Fut actualmente abarca tres ramas principales. Dos de las ramas comparten el nombre “Hung Sing” aunque este nombre posee cuatro definiciones distintas. La tercer rama es llamada “Buk Sing”, la cual eventualmente se separó del linaje de Hung Sing Kwoon de Fut San (Foshan, China) fundada por Jeung Hung Sing. En aras del desarrollo de este artículo, me enfocaré principalmente en el nombre Hung Sing, particularmente por que dicho ombre no tuvo su origen en el Choy Lee Fut.

Primero hablemos del nombre “Hung Sing” utilizado en la escuela de Chan Heung. De acuerdo a la historia de los linajes de la familia Chan, cuando Chan Heung concluyó su entrenamiento bajo la guía del monje Choy Fook (en 1836), éste regresó a la villa de King Mui para establecer una escuela en dicha localidad. Él eligió llamarla “Hung Sing” (洪聖) que se traduce como “Gran Sabiduría” o “Santo” y también en referencia a la deida china Hung Shing (洪聖), también conocida como Hung Shing Ye (洪聖爺) en adición a la otra deidad conocida como Tai Wong (大王). El nombre real de esta deidad era Hung Hei (洪熙), un oficial gubernamental bastante virtuoso.

Al mismo tiempo, las sociedades secretas chinas eran reconocidas por su habilidad en el juego de palabras. Dichas sociedades utilizaban sinónimos y metáforas como herramientas para transmitir sus mensajes de forma oculta justo frente a las narices del gobierno de la dinastía Qing. De hecho, "Hung Sing" (洪聖) también era utilizado como homónimo que hacía referencia al Emperador Ming quien también era conocido como “Hung Wu”. Sin embargo, personalmente dudo que Chan Heung eligiera utilizar este nombre en honor al Emperador Ming, ni tampoco tener conexión alguna con la Hung Mun porque Chan Heung abrió su escuela en 1836 y no se involucró con nadie de las sociedades secretas hasta que las Guerras del Opio estallaron (1839-1842).

El nombre “Hung Sing” (洪勝) original de Cheung Yim, también conocido como Cheung Hung Sing puede compartir la misma pronunciación que el utilizado por la escuela de Chan Heung, pero, en comparación de los caracteres chinos, se podrá observar que tienen apariencia distinta y después, se podrá percibir que tienen definiciones completamente distintas en todos los sentidos. La escuela de Cheung Yim se traduce literalmente como “la Victoria de Hung” y se origina de la Hung Mun. Dicho nombre le fue dado a Chueng Yim por su tercer profesor, el monje Ching Mo una vez que éste terminó su entrenamiento. Éste nombre es la versión corta de su significado completo que es: “Los Hung (洪) serán victoriosos (勝) en el derrocamiento de la dinastía Qing". El monje Ming Cho le dio este nombre a Chueng Yim como un recordatorio constante de luchar por las causas justas.

En 1851, Cheung Hung Sing y su Hung Sing Kwoon de Fut San (Foshan, China) participaron activamente en la revolución Tai Ping que se realizó hasta 1864. De 1864 a 1867, el Hung Sing Kwoon de Fut San (Foshan, China) permaneció cerrado mientras Cheung Hung Sing se escondió en Hong Kong en espera que la situación se tranquilizará un poco. Éste individuo regresó a Fut San (Foshan, China) en 1867 pero fue necesario renombrar su escuela para poder re-abrirla. Siendo así, el mantuvo la palabra “Sing” (勝) cuyo significado es “Victoria” ya que es una palabra fuertemente relacionada con la sociedad Hung Mun. Chueng remplazó el antiguo "Hung" (洪) por la otra palabra "Hung" (鴻) que significa “ganso” pero que, también significa “Grande”, “Gran” o “Gloriosa”.

Estos dos nombres de “Hung Sing” (洪勝/鴻勝) utilizados por Chueng Yim derivan directamente de la Hung Mun y son utilizados cpmp as it is a word heavily relatedo la versión corta de su declarión de misión mencionada líneas arriba. En adición a lo anterior, el “Hung Sing” original de Cheung Yim (洪勝) fue utilizado también como nombre para una organización perteneciente a Tien Di Hui Tong en Guangxi, provincia localizada al sur de China. Inclusive, en la actualidad, existen ciertos grupos estilo tríada que utilizan dicho nombre. A fin de aclarar los conceptos erróneos acerca de este nombre, es necesario comentar que nunca fue utilizado como un grito de batalla, ni por la Hung Mun ni por peleadores que practican Choy Lee Fut. Dicho nombre fue dado a Chueng Yim por el monje Ching Mo, un cofundador de la Hung Mun.

La única ocasión en que Chan Heung utilizó un nombre que contenía la palabra “victoria” fue cuando abrió una clínica médica. Él la llamó “Wing Sing Tong” (永勝堂) o la agrupación de la eternal victoria. Aunque en múltiples ocasiones se ha alegado que esta no era una escuela de artes marciales sino solamente una clínica médica, existen escuelas modernas de Choy Lee Fut que utilizan este nombre.

Chan Koon Pak, el segundo hijo de Chan Heung, abrió su propia escuela de artes marciales, pero en lugar de utilizar el "Hung Sing" (洪聖) que su padre utilizaba, él utilizó el “Hung Sing” proveniente del linaje de Cheung Yim (鴻勝).

Derivado a que YIm estaba constantemente en las noticias, Koon Pak decidió que era tiempo de romper cualquier tipo de asociación de su escuela con el Hung Sing Kwoon de FUt San (Fohsan, China) y cambió el nombre de su escuela por un “Hung Sing” diferente (雄勝) que significa “Victoria Fuerte" o "Victoria Heroica". Este nombre sin duda es una rama del nombre de Cheung Yim ya que otorgaba al usuario una semi - relación con la Hung Mun. La única conexión de la escuela del padre de Koon Pak con las sociedades secretas chinas era la pronunciación, ya que el idiograma, la definición y la esencia no eran temas que compartieran.

Actualmente, existe una corriente que trata de adjuntar el “Hung Sing” de Chan Heung (洪聖) a la Hung Mun. Incluso han expandido una nueva idea de que "天下洪圣是一家" (Todos los Hung Sings son una familia). Dando a entender que "洪勝, 鴻勝 y 雄勝 " son de alguna manera un subproducto de este Hung Sing (洪聖), lo anterior como si Chan Heung fuese la persona que lideró el movimiento por el que el Choy Lee Fut ingresó en la Hung Mun. Nada puede estar más lejos de la verdad.
Primero, "天下洪圣是一家" (Todos los Hung Sings son una familia) es una frase tomada del slogan de Hung Mun "天下洪門是一家" (Todos los Hung Mun son una familia).

Por lo tanto, repitiendo de manera intencionada, Hung Sing (洪聖) se utilizó en referencia tanto a la deidad de un Templo como al emperador Hung Wu. Dicho templo no tenía ninguna relación con la Hung Mun y Hung Wu pudiera considerarse algo así como un santo para la sociedad.

Sin embargo, los nombres “Hung Sing” utilizados por Cheung Yim y de Chan Koon Pak (鴻勝, 雄勝) se usaron en referencia a algún tipo de “victoria” y, en dicho caso, fue en relación directa a la sociedad Hung y su objetivo de derrocar al gobierno; caso contrario con el Hung Sing (洪聖) de Chan Heung que hacía referencia claramente hacia el individuo. Sin importar si era una deidad del su de China o el Emperador Hung Wu. Tomando lo anterior en consideración, no encuentro cómo este "Hung Sing (洪聖)" pudo servir de inspiración a éstos Hung Sing's (鴻勝, 雄勝), es decir, como pudo una aspiración individualista y abierta inspirar a otras personas a representar a un grupo revolucionario. No existe ninguna relación directa con el nombre de Hung Sing utilizado por Chan Heung con el propósito del nombre y significado por el que el monje Ching Mo le dio a Cheung Yim el suyo.

"天下洪圣是一家" (Todos los Hung Sings son una familia), sin importar que sea una copia de la frase de Hung Mun es un concepto asombroso. Además, considero que ”天下蔡李佛是一家” (Choy Lee Fut es una familia) sería una mejor elección de palabras ya que encuadra el verdadero Choy Lee Fut como lo conocemos actualmente, el Choy Lee Fut que abarca el Kung Fu creado y heredado a través de los linajes de Chan Heung, Cheung Hung Sing, and Tam Sam. Pero si continuamos con la idea de utilizer todos los Hung Sing (洪圣) como una sola familia, eso tendría que excluir a Cheung Hung Sing y Tam Sam ya que ellos nunca utilizaron este carácter de Hung Sing (洪圣), incluso, ni siquiera Chan Koon Pak utilizó el mismo Hung Sing (洪圣) que utilizó su padre.

En conclusión, tratar de inferir que todos los Hung Sing utilizados en CHoy Lee Fut [La Victoria de Hung Victory (洪勝), La Victoria Gloriosa (鴻勝) y la Victoria Heroica (雄勝) ] derivan del Hung Sing de Chan Heung es extremadamente engañoso y por supuesto completamente falso. La verdad necesita ser dicho para las generaciones de practicantes para que la porten con orgullo. Nos corresponde investigar, realizar preguntas o cuestionamientos y descubrir el o los tesoros que el gran sistema Choy Lee Fut tiene para ofrecer. Eso incluye a la familia Chan, al Hung Sing Kwoon y a la rama de Buk Sing ya que sin éstos el Choy Lee Fut no sería tan famoso como lo es hoy en día.

[hskwarrior]

Choy Lee Fut does not own the "Hung Sing" name
By Sifu Frankie McCarthy

Hung Sing is a name completely synonymous with that of the Choy Lee Fut gung fu system. Internally, Choy Lee Fut of today is primarily comprised of three main branches. Two of the branches share the name "Hung Sing" although this single name has four different definitions. The third branch is the Buk Sing branch that eventually broke off from the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon founded by Jeung Hung Sing. For the sake of this article I want to focus on the Hung Sing name, especially since Choy Lee Fut isn't where this name originated.

First let's talk about Chan Heung's "Hung Sing" school name. According to the history of the Chan Family lineages when Chan Heung completed his training under monk Choy Fook, in 1836 he returned to King Mui to set up a school in his ancestral village. He chose to call it "Hung Sing" (洪聖) which translates into "Great Sage" or "Holy" and is also in reference to a southern Chinese Deity Hung Shing (洪聖), also known as Hung Shing Ye (洪聖爺) in addition to Tai Wong (大王). This deity's real name was Hung Hei (洪熙), a righteous government official.

At the same time, the Chinese Secret Society was notorious for their play on words. Synonyms, ****nyms, and metaphors were common tools used by them to get their messages across right under the noses of the Qing government. In fact, "Hung Sing" (洪聖) was also ****nym in reference to the Ming Emperor who was also known as "Hung Wu". However, I highly doubt Chan Heung chose this name in honor of the Ming Emperor, nor does it have any connection to the Hung Mun because Chan Heung established hi school in 1836 and didn't get involved with anyone from the secret societies until the Opium Wars (1839-1842) broke out.

The original "Hung Sing" (洪勝) name of Cheung Yim, aka Cheung Hung Sing may share the same pronunciation of Chan Heung's school, but, in comparison it's appearance and definition is completely different in every way. His schools name literally translated as "Hung Victory" and originates from the Hung Mun. It was given to Cheung Yim by his 3rd teacher Monk Ching Cho upon completion of his training. This name is the abridged version of its greater meaning of "The Hung (洪) will be Victorious (勝) in overthrowing the Qing Dynasty". The Monk Ching Cho gave Cheung Yim this name as a constant reminder to fight for righteous cause.

In 1851 Cheung Hung Sing and his Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon participated in the Tai Ping revolution which lasted until 1864. From 1864-1867 the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon was closed down while Cheung Hung Sing hid out in Hong Kong until things cooled off a bit. He returned to Fut San in 1867 but needed to rename his school if he wanted to re-open it. He kept the word "Sing" (勝) meaning "Victory" as it is a word heavily related to the Hung Society. He replaced the old "Hung" (洪) with another "Hung" (鴻) word that meant "Goose" but, also means "Great" or "Glorious" as well.

The two Hung Sing names (洪勝/鴻勝) used by Cheung Yim were derived directly from the Hung Mun and utilized as an abridged version of their Mission Statement as mentioned above. In addition to that, Cheung Yim's original "Hung Sing" (洪勝) was also used as a name for a Tien Di Hui Tong in Guangxi. And, even today there are certain Triad based groups that use this name as well. To clear up any misconceptions about this name, it was never used as a rally cry neither for the Hung Mun or Choy Lee Fut fighters. It was given to Cheung Yim by Monk Ching Cho, a co-founder of the Hung Mun. The only time Chan Heung used a name containing the word "Victory" is when he opened a medical clinic. He called it the "Wing Sing Tong" (永勝堂) or the Tong of Eternal Victory. Allegedly, this was not a martial arts school. It was reported to be a medical clinic. However, there are modern day Choy Lee Fut students who currently use this name.

Chan Koon Pak, the second son of Chan Heung, opened his own martial arts school. Instead of using the "Hung Sing" (洪聖) that his father was using, he was using the "Hung Sing" (鴻勝) of Cheung Yim's lineage. As the latter was constantly in the news Koon Pak decided it was time to disassociate his school with that of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (佛山鴻勝舘) and changed his schools' name to a different "Hung Sing" (雄勝) meaning "Strong" or "Heroic" Victory. This name is an offshoot of Cheung Yim's name which would give it a semi-relation to the Hung Mun. The only connection to Koon Pak's father's school is by pronunciation alone, while its appearance, definition, and essence are not something they shared together.

Currently, there is a push to attach Chan Heung's Hung Sing (洪聖) to the Hung Mun. They have even introduced a new idea of "天下洪圣是一家" (All Hung Sing is one family). Inferring that "洪勝, 鴻勝, and 雄勝 " are somehow a by-product of this Hung Sing (洪聖). As if Chan Heung was the person leading the way for all of Choy Lee Fut in the Hung Mun. Nothing could be further from the truth.

First of all, "天下洪圣是一家" (All Hung Sing is one family) is borrowed from Hung Mun's slogan "天下洪門是一家" (All Hung Mun is one family). Therefore, with intended repetition, Hung Sing (洪聖) is in reference to both a Deity's Temple and to Emperor Hung Wu. The Temple has nothing to do with the Hung Mun. Hung Wu, is not a member, but, is at the forefront of the Hung Mun society. Hung Wu could be likened to a patron Saint to the society.

However, Cheung Yim's and Chan Koon Pak's Hung Sing (鴻勝, 雄勝) names are in reference to a "Victory" of some sort. And in this case, is in fact in direct relation to the Hung Society and their goal to overthrow the government. Unlike Chan Heung's Hung Sing (洪聖) which is clearly in reference to an individual, whether it be the southern Chinese Deity or Emperor Hung Wu. When taking this into consideration, I fail to see how "Hung Sing (洪聖)" could be the inspiration to these Hung Sing's (鴻勝, 雄勝). There is absolutely no direct relation with Chan Heung's Hung Sing name to the purpose and cause of the name given to Cheung Hung Sing by Monk Ching Cho.

"天下洪圣是一家" (All Hung Sing is one family), regardless if it was borrowed from the Hung Mun, is an awesome notion. Although, I believe 天下蔡李佛是一家 (Choy Lee Fut is one family) is a far better choice of words as it encompasses the true Choy Lee Fut of today as we know it. The Choy Lee Fut that is comprised of gung fu created and passed down through the branches of Chan Heung, Cheung Hung Sing, and Tam Sam. But if we followed the idea of all Hung Sing (洪圣) being one family, that would unfortunately exclude Cheung Hung Sing and Tam Sam since neither ever used this Hung Sing (洪圣) name. Not even Chan Koon Pak possessed the same Hung Sing (洪圣) used by his own father.

In conclusion, attempting to infer that all of Choy Lee Fut's "Hung Sing" (Hung Victory (洪勝), Glorious Victory (鴻勝) and Heroic Victory (雄勝) ) names were derived from Chan Heung's Hung Sing (洪圣) is extremely misleading and completely untrue. The truth needs to be told for the future generations of students to carry on with pride. It is up to us to research, ask questions, and discover the treasures the great system of Choy Lee Fut has to offer. That includes the Chan Family, Fut San Hung Sing, and Buk Sing Choy Lee Fut branches. For without them, Choy Lee Fut wouldn't be as famous as it is today.

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YauvOTpoyyw

[hskwarrior]

Ttt..............................

[hskwarrior]

http://channgausing.blogspot.com/2015/04/chan-ngau-sing-1864-1926-written-by.html

[hskwarrior]

CHOY LEE FUT'S MONK "CHOY FOOK" IS NOT THE GREEN GRASS MONK OR MONK CHING CHO

The true identity of the Green Grass Monk and whether or not he was a Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon creation (as it was once accused) has long been a sore spot for the Choy Lee Fut fraternity. On one hand, this mysterious character was never part of Chan Heung’s history. I have personally contacted various leaders of King Mui lineages to quiz them on what they may have known about the Green Grass Monk. And, the responses were all the same, “Sorry, his name isn’t found in our official documentation.” After that, it was back to square one and all I could do was keep digging.

On the other hand, the Green Grass Monk has always been a part of the history of the Cheung Hung Sing lineages from the very beginning. Sure, we didn’t have much in regards of recorded history within the Fut San Hung Sing lineages. But, upon closer inspection, all of the students of Cheung Hung Sing’s school were labeled as rebels by the Qing Empire and they were forced to go deep underground. Any written literature that may connect someone with the outlawed groups could and often did mean instant death by beheading. Therefore, taking this into consideration, it makes perfect sense to why they chose to verbally transmit their history and information instead.

In the year 2001, a big heated debate on a well known kung fu forum took place. Students of all three of Choy Lee Fut’s major branches (Chan Fam, Hung Sing and Buk Sing) participated in this discussion that went on for some time. No one could agree in regards to whether or not Green Grass Monk was just a story or indeed very real. While it cause a few ripples within the fraternity, the after effect was the newer and younger generations began to question their own teachers about his monk. It definitely wasn’t an issue that was going to be swept under the rug anytime soon.

The Green Grass Monk debate caused such a ruckus that one very high profile Choy Lee Fut teacher came out and claimed that he discovered the true identity of the Green Grass Monk. His erroneous claim stated that “Green Grass” was the monasterial name of Chan Heung’s second teacher Monk Choy Fook. This announcement turned the Choy Lee Fut fraternity on its ear because of the fact that a number of years before this incident, he wrote a book and listed many reasons why he felt the Green Grass Monk was a concoction of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

Now, it is my personal opinion that this Choy Lee Fut teacher was monopolizing on the idea that no one would be dedicated or resourceful enough to discover the truth. Since he was unaware of the outside sources at my disposal, he must have felt that he could get away with claiming the “Green Grass” name was of Buddhist origin. But, when my book is complete, people will learn the various names the Green Grass Monk used as his alias’, the occupation of his parents, how he came to be a shaolin monk, about his life, all the way down to the genesis of the “Green Grass” name and much, much more.

But the one thing I need to clear up right away is that Monk Choy Fook is in no way, shape or form the Green Grass Monk. More and more these days you will come across historical information that has adopted this misconceived notion of the Green Grass Monk’s identity. And, if this LIE keeps getting perpetuated, people will believe it’s the truth. This would not be good for the Choy Lee Fut fraternity because everyone knows the Green Grass Monk was Cheung Hung Sing’s 3rd teacher.

A few of the quick and easy points to recognize that Monk Choy Fook is NOT the Green Grass Monk is: 1) Choy Fook is known to have lived on Mt. Lou Fu while the Green Grass Monk was living on the Ba Pai Mountain many miles away. As you can see from the image of the map, this mountain was very far away from Mt Loufu and would be too difficult for an elderly monk to travel back and forth from, 2) One very important identifying factor is that keeps getting brought up is the notion that Monk Choy Fook had a scarred head, allegedly from his head being caught on fire during the destruction of the southern Shaolin Temple as he escaped. It is such an important aspect of Monk Choy Fook aka Lan Tau Fook, that it needed to be mentioned. However, nothing of the sort has ever been mentioned about the Green Grass Monk at all.


The third point to make note of is Monk Choy Fook was a master of the Choy Gar style and died as a recluse on Mt. Loufu while the Green Grass Monk lived on Ba Pai Mountain, taught Fut Gar Kuen, was a founder of the Hung Mun, and had a mission of raising an army to rise up against the government. In addition to all of this, the “GREEN GRASS” name isn’t anyone’s temple name at all. Never was, and never will be. Do you know why? Because it’s true origin is not with Shaolin, but the Chinese Secret Society. I go deeper into this subject in the book I am writing.

In conclusion, I’m not sure why anyone would want to abuse the legacy of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon by denying the Green Grass Monk’s existence as long as it was part of Cheung Hung Sing’s history. But if the Green Grass Monk can be applied towards Chan Heung’s legacy, then sure, he really did exist. One doesn’t need to be a rocket scientist to see the reasoning behind anyone claiming Monk Choy Fook to be the Green Grass Monk. The sad part of it is, those people making these claims know they are not telling the truth. Still, the truth shall set you free.

[extrajoseph]

By Sifu Frankie McCarthy
First let's talk about Chan Heung's "Hung Sing" school name. According to the history of the Chan Family lineages when Chan Heung completed his training under monk Choy Fook, in 1836 he returned to King Mui to set up a school in his ancestral village. He chose to call it "Hung Sing" (洪聖) which translates into "Great Sage" or "Holy" and is also in reference to a southern Chinese Deity Hung Shing (洪聖), also known as Hung Shing Ye (洪聖爺) in addition to Tai Wong (大王). This deity's real name was Hung Hei (洪熙), a righteous government official.

Frank,

Your research still sucks, this is just one example: Chan Heung did not choose the name himself, the “Great Sage” name for the Ancestral School in King Mui was given by Choy Fook, who also gave him a door couplet for the first school that says “hong cai ding qu wen zhang shi, sheng suan huan tui wu lue tong”

洪材定取文章事
聖算還推武略通

“Great talent must obtain its matter from literature (and)
Sagely plans still need martial backing to succeed.”

It is a way for Choy Fook to remain Chan Heung that a great martial artist is a person with a brain as well as brawn - think and plan carefully before you have to fight.

XJ

[extrajoseph]

CHOY LEE FUT'S MONK "CHOY FOOK" IS NOT THE GREEN GRASS MONK OR MONK CHING CHO
In conclusion, I’m not sure why anyone would want to abuse the legacy of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon by denying the Green Grass Monk’s existence as long as it was part of Cheung Hung Sing’s history. But if the Green Grass Monk can be applied towards Chan Heung’s legacy, then sure, he really did exist. One doesn’t need to be a rocket scientist to see the reasoning behind anyone claiming Monk Choy Fook to be the Green Grass Monk. The sad part of it is, those people making these claims know they are not telling the truth. Still, the truth shall set you free.

Frank,
Choy Fook is the Green Grass Monk if you understand Chinese literature and philosophy. To have "fook" or to have prosperity is to be free of attachment and desires, just like the green grass blowing in the wind - free and easy, so he is the monk of green grass.
XJ

[hskwarrior]

MORE IN YOUR FACE EVIDENCE OF THE MISINFORMATION SPREAD BY LIARS


Frank,
Choy Fook is the Green Grass Monk if you understand Chinese literature and philosophy. To have "fook" or to have prosperity is to be free of attachment and desires, just like the green grass blowing in the wind - free and easy, so he is the monk of green grass.
XJ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHLvwP9vpfw

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijE_BqS8EYI

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXeeTpHJZjs

[hskwarrior]

People should disregard what this individual is trying to openly lie about. His lies are legendary.


frank,

your research still sucks, this is just one example: Chan heung did not choose the name himself, the “great sage” name for the ancestral school in king mui was given by choy fook, who also gave him a door couplet for the first school that says “hong cai ding qu wen zhang shi, sheng suan huan tui wu lue tong”

洪材定取文章事
聖算還推武略通

“great talent must obtain its matter from literature (and)
sagely plans still need martial backing to succeed.”

it is a way for choy fook to remain chan heung that a great martial artist is a person with a brain as well as brawn - think and plan carefully before you have to fight.

Xj

[hskwarrior]

Clearing up an out right lie

CHOY LEE FUT'S MONK "CHOY FOOK" IS NOT THE GREEN GRASS MONK OR MONK CHING CHO


The true identity of the Green Grass Monk and whether or not he was a Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon creation (as it was once accused) has long been a sore spot for the Choy Lee Fut fraternity. On one hand, this mysterious character was never part of Chan Heung’s history. I have personally contacted various leaders of King Mui lineages to quiz them on what they may have known about the Green Grass Monk. And, the responses were all the same, “Sorry, his name isn’t found in our official documentation.” After that, it was back to square one and all I could do was keep digging.

On the other hand, the Green Grass Monk has always been a part of the history of the Cheung Hung Sing lineages from the very beginning. Sure, we didn’t have much in regards of recorded history within the Fut San Hung Sing lineages. But, upon closer inspection, all of the students of Cheung Hung Sing’s school were labeled as rebels by the Qing Empire and they were forced to go deep underground. Any written literature that may connect someone with the outlawed groups could and often did mean instant death by beheading. Therefore, taking this into consideration, it makes perfect sense to why they chose to verbally transmit their history and information instead.

In the year 2001, a big heated debate on a well known kung fu forum took place. Students of all three of Choy Lee Fut’s major branches (Chan Fam, Hung Sing and Buk Sing) participated in this discussion that went on for some time. No one could agree in regards to whether or not Green Grass Monk was just a story or indeed very real. While it cause a few ripples within the fraternity, the after effect was the newer and younger generations began to question their own teachers about his monk. It definitely wasn’t an issue that was going to be swept under the rug anytime soon.

The Green Grass Monk debate caused such a ruckus that one very high profile Choy Lee Fut teacher came out and claimed that he discovered the true identity of the Green Grass Monk. His erroneous claim stated that “Green Grass” was the monasterial name of Chan Heung’s second teacher Monk Choy Fook. This announcement turned the Choy Lee Fut fraternity on its ear because of the fact that a number of years before this incident, he wrote a book and listed many reasons why he felt the Green Grass Monk was a concoction of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

Now, it is my personal opinion that this Choy Lee Fut teacher was monopolizing on the idea that no one would be dedicated or resourceful enough to discover the truth. Since he was unaware of the outside sources at my disposal, he must have felt that he could get away with claiming the “Green Grass” name was of Buddhist origin. But, when my book is complete, people will learn the various names the Green Grass Monk used as his alias’, the occupation of his parents, how he came to be a shaolin monk, about his life, all the way down to the genesis of the “Green Grass” name and much, much more.

But the one thing I need to clear up right away is that Monk Choy Fook is in no way, shape or form the Green Grass Monk. More and more these days you will come across historical information that has adopted this misconceived notion of the Green Grass Monk’s identity. And, if this LIE keeps getting perpetuated, people will believe it’s the truth. This would not be good for the Choy Lee Fut fraternity because everyone knows the Green Grass Monk was Cheung Hung Sing’s 3rd teacher.

A few of the quick and easy points to recognize that Monk Choy Fook is NOT the Green Grass Monk is: 1) Choy Fook is known to have lived on Mt. Lou Fu while the Green Grass Monk was living on the Ba Pai Mountain many miles away. As you can see from the image of the map, this mountain was very far away from Mt Loufu and would be too difficult for an elderly monk to travel back and forth from, 2) One very important identifying factor is that keeps getting brought up is the notion that Monk Choy Fook had a scarred head, allegedly from his head being caught on fire during the destruction of the southern Shaolin Temple as he escaped. It is such an important aspect of Monk Choy Fook aka Lan Tau Fook, that it needed to be mentioned. However, nothing of the sort has ever been mentioned about the Green Grass Monk at all.


The third point to make note of is Monk Choy Fook was a master of the Choy Gar style and died as a recluse on Mt. Loufu while the Green Grass Monk lived on Ba Pai Mountain, taught Fut Gar Kuen, was a founder of the Hung Mun, and had a mission of raising an army to rise up against the government. In addition to all of this, the “GREEN GRASS” name isn’t anyone’s temple name at all. Never was, and never will be. Do you know why? Because it’s true origin is not with Shaolin, but the Chinese Secret Society. I go deeper into this subject in the book I am writing.

In conclusion, I’m not sure why anyone would want to abuse the legacy of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon by denying the Green Grass Monk’s existence as long as it was part of Cheung Hung Sing’s history. But if the Green Grass Monk can be applied towards Chan Heung’s legacy, then sure, he really did exist. One doesn’t need to be a rocket scientist to see the reasoning behind anyone claiming Monk Choy Fook to be the Green Grass Monk. The sad part of it is, those people making these claims know they are not telling the truth. Still, the truth shall set you free.

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-GHKaSkeg

[extrajoseph]

The confusion with a deity's name was the precise reason why Chan Heung used a different name of the same sound when the his schools spread outside of King Mui but he kept it for the ancestral school.

[hskwarrior]

Choy Lee Fut does not own the "Hung Sing" name
By Sifu Frankie McCarthy

Hung Sing is a name completely synonymous with that of the Choy Lee Fut gung fu system. Internally, Choy Lee Fut of today is primarily comprised of three main branches. Two of the branches share the name "Hung Sing" although this single name has four different definitions. The third branch is the Buk Sing branch that eventually broke off from the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon founded by Jeung Hung Sing. For the sake of this article I want to focus on the Hung Sing name, especially since Choy Lee Fut isn't where this name originated.

First let's talk about Chan Heung's "Hung Sing" school name. According to the history of the Chan Family lineages when Chan Heung completed his training under monk Choy Fook, in 1836 he returned to King Mui to set up a school in his ancestral village. He chose to call it "Hung Sing" (洪聖) which translates into "Great Sage" or "Holy" and is also in reference to a southern Chinese Deity Hung Shing (洪聖), also known as Hung Shing Ye (洪聖爺) in addition to Tai Wong (大王). This deity's real name was Hung Hei (洪熙), a righteous government official.

At the same time, the Chinese Secret Society was notorious for their play on words. Synonyms, ****nyms, and metaphors were common tools used by them to get their messages across right under the noses of the Qing government. In fact, "Hung Sing" (洪聖) was also ****nym in reference to the Ming Emperor who was also known as "Hung Wu". However, I highly doubt Chan Heung chose this name in honor of the Ming Emperor, nor does it have any connection to the Hung Mun because Chan Heung established hi school in 1836 and didn't get involved with anyone from the secret societies until the Opium Wars (1839-1842) broke out.

The original "Hung Sing" (洪勝) name of Cheung Yim, aka Cheung Hung Sing may share the same pronunciation of Chan Heung's school, but, in comparison it's appearance and definition is completely different in every way. His schools name literally translated as "Hung Victory" and originates from the Hung Mun. It was given to Cheung Yim by his 3rd teacher Monk Ching Cho upon completion of his training. This name is the abridged version of its greater meaning of "The Hung (洪) will be Victorious (勝) in overthrowing the Qing Dynasty". The Monk Ching Cho gave Cheung Yim this name as a constant reminder to fight for righteous cause.

In 1851 Cheung Hung Sing and his Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon participated in the Tai Ping revolution which lasted until 1864. From 1864-1867 the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon was closed down while Cheung Hung Sing hid out in Hong Kong until things cooled off a bit. He returned to Fut San in 1867 but needed to rename his school if he wanted to re-open it. He kept the word "Sing" (勝) meaning "Victory" as it is a word heavily related to the Hung Society. He replaced the old "Hung" (洪) with another "Hung" (鴻) word that meant "Goose" but, also means "Great" or "Glorious" as well.

The two Hung Sing names (洪勝/鴻勝) used by Cheung Yim were derived directly from the Hung Mun and utilized as an abridged version of their Mission Statement as mentioned above. In addition to that, Cheung Yim's original "Hung Sing" (洪勝) was also used as a name for a Tien Di Hui Tong in Guangxi. And, even today there are certain Triad based groups that use this name as well. To clear up any misconceptions about this name, it was never used as a rally cry neither for the Hung Mun or Choy Lee Fut fighters. It was given to Cheung Yim by Monk Ching Cho, a co-founder of the Hung Mun.

The only time Chan Heung used a name containing the word "Victory" is when he opened a medical clinic. He called it the "Wing Sing Tong" (永勝堂) or the Tong of Eternal Victory. Allegedly, this was not a martial arts school. It was reported to be a medical clinic. However, there are modern day Choy Lee Fut students who currently use this name.

Chan Koon Pak, the second son of Chan Heung, opened his own martial arts school. Instead of using the "Hung Sing" (洪聖) that his father was using, he was using the "Hung Sing" (鴻勝) of Cheung Yim's lineage. As the latter was constantly in the news Koon Pak decided it was time to disassociate his school with that of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (佛山鴻勝舘) and changed his schools' name to a different "Hung Sing" (雄勝) meaning "Strong" or "Heroic" Victory. This name is an offshoot of Cheung Yim's name which would give it a semi-relation to the Hung Mun. The only connection to Koon Pak's father's school is by pronunciation alone, while its appearance, definition, and essence are not something they shared together.

Currently, there is a push to attach Chan Heung's Hung Sing (洪聖) to the Hung Mun. They have even introduced a new idea of "天下洪圣是一家" (All Hung Sing is one family). Inferring that "洪勝, 鴻勝, and 雄勝 " are somehow a by-product of this Hung Sing (洪聖). As if Chan Heung was the person leading the way for all of Choy Lee Fut in the Hung Mun. Nothing could be further from the truth.

First of all, "天下洪圣是一家" (All Hung Sing is one family) is borrowed from Hung Mun's slogan "天下洪門是一家" (All Hung Mun is one family). Therefore, with intended repetition, Hung Sing (洪聖) is in reference to both a Deity's Temple and to Emperor Hung Wu. The Temple has nothing to do with the Hung Mun. Hung Wu, is not a member, but, is at the forefront of the Hung Mun society. Hung Wu could be likened to a patron Saint to the society.

However, Cheung Yim's and Chan Koon Pak's Hung Sing (鴻勝, 雄勝) names are in reference to a "Victory" of some sort. And in this case, is in fact in direct relation to the Hung Society and their goal to overthrow the government. Unlike Chan Heung's Hung Sing (洪聖) which is clearly in reference to an individual, whether it be the southern Chinese Deity or Emperor Hung Wu. When taking this into consideration, I fail to see how "Hung Sing (洪聖)" could be the inspiration to these Hung Sing's (鴻勝, 雄勝). There is absolutely no direct relation with Chan Heung's Hung Sing name to the purpose and cause of the name given to Cheung Hung Sing by Monk Ching Cho.

"天下洪圣是一家" (All Hung Sing is one family), regardless if it was borrowed from the Hung Mun, is an awesome notion. Although, I believe 天下蔡李佛是一家 (Choy Lee Fut is one family) is a far better choice of words as it encompasses the true Choy Lee Fut of today as we know it. The Choy Lee Fut that is comprised of gung fu created and passed down through the branches of Chan Heung, Cheung Hung Sing, and Tam Sam. But if we followed the idea of all Hung Sing (洪圣) being one family, that would unfortunately exclude Cheung Hung Sing and Tam Sam since neither ever used this Hung Sing (洪圣) name. Not even Chan Koon Pak possessed the same Hung Sing (洪圣) used by his own father.

In conclusion, attempting to infer that all of Choy Lee Fut's "Hung Sing" (Hung Victory (洪勝), Glorious Victory (鴻勝) and Heroic Victory (雄勝) ) names were derived from Chan Heung's Hung Sing (洪圣) is extremely misleading and completely untrue. The truth needs to be told for the future generations of students to carry on with pride. It is up to us to research, ask questions, and discover the treasures the great system of Choy Lee Fut has to offer. That includes the Chan Family, Fut San Hung Sing, and Buk Sing Choy Lee Fut branches. For without them, Choy Lee Fut wouldn't be as famous as it is today.

[hskwarrior]

The confusion with a deity's name was the precise reason why Chan Heung used a different name of the same sound when the his schools spread outside of King Mui but he kept it for the ancestral school. ..............................

[extrajoseph]

Frank,
I did my research in King Mui and you did yours in Futsan, which is closer to the source? Who is misinformed? Let readers make their own judgment.
XJ

[hskwarrior]

The lies from those other guys never seems to stop

CHECK THIS OUT: Choy Fook had trained under five teachers, over a period of many years. His teachers were Jue Yuan Monk (觉远上人), Yi Guan Monk (一贯禅师), Li Sou (李叟), Bai Yu Feng (白玉峰), and Cai Jiu Yi (蔡九仪).

The downright despicable lies continue on while those spreading the lies accuse US of lying to cover up their own dirty deceit.
For example, according to the above, Monk Choy Fook who allegedly existed in the 18th and 19th centuries (mid 1700's to the mid 1800's) "had trained under five teachers". What the FAIL to inform you about is exactly how Monk Choy Fook was able to train "UNDER" teachers who existed 400 years before he was ever born.

sure, they will try to justify their lie somehow, but unless monk choy fook possessed a "TIME MACHINE".....everyone should ask their teachers to please explain how a man can train directly under people who existed 4 centuries prior to his own birth.

[extrajoseph]

The downright despicable lies continue on while those spreading the lies accuse US of lying to cover up their own dirty deceit.
For example, according to the above, Monk Choy Fook who allegedly existed in the 18th and 19th centuries (mid 1700's to the mid 1800's) "had trained under five teachers". What the FAIL to inform you about is exactly how Monk Choy Fook was able to train "UNDER" teachers who existed 400 years before he was ever born.

sure, they will try to justify their lie somehow, but unless monk choy fook possessed a "TIME MACHINE".....everyone should ask their teachers to please explain how a man can train directly under people who existed 4 centuries prior to his own birth.

Frank,
You are not familiar with Chinese correlative/associative thinking, when they say 10,000 they don't mean 10,000 exactly, they mean multitude of things. Using these famous names from different times does not meant Choy Fook literally studied with them all, it is so obviously impossible; it is meant to implied that the tradition of his learning came from the Shaolin practitioners of high levels of skill, that is all.
XJ

[hskwarrior]

The Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon and all of its lineages have NEVER back peddled EVER in regards to its history. In fact, our story grows as we come to know more about our mother school. We have stood our ground EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.

On the other hand, they lineages of chan heung changed their historical story numerous times over the years. For example, they denied the existence of the GREEN GRASS MONK and accused US of creating him. Because we never backed down, they then tried to claim the GGM was Monk Choy Fook. The same guy who learned from masters that existed 400 years prior to his own birth.

In regards to monk Chan Yuen Wu, they are also confused to which mountain or location this monk lived or trained people. ALSO, they have changed his martial background 3 times already. Initially, he either taught Hung Kuen or Hung Gar (i forget which). Then they claimed he taught chan heung FUT GAR (all because fut san stated "WE" put the FUT in Choy Lee Fut. And currently, information about him states his art was Hung Fut.

now, today we see this individual EXTRAJOSEPH claim and i quote: "The confusion with a deity's name was the precise reason why Chan Heung used a different name of the same sound when the his schools spread outside of King Mui but he kept it for the ancestral school. "

First they tried to fool people by using a game of wordplay by saying Cheung Hung Sing didn't open the first Hung Sing school in Fut San. They purposely chose not to inform people that Chan Heung's Hung Sing and Cheung Hung Sing's Hung Sing name are only the same in pronunciation. the actually definition of each name is totally different in essence, definition, and purpose. for example:


frank,

your research still sucks, this is just one example: Chan heung did not choose the name himself, the “great sage” name for the ancestral school in king mui was given by choy fook, who also gave him a door couplet for the first school that says “hong cai ding qu wen zhang shi, sheng suan huan tui wu lue tong”

洪材定取文章事
聖算還推武略通

“great talent must obtain its matter from literature (and)
sagely plans still need martial backing to succeed.”

it is a way for choy fook to remain chan heung that a great martial artist is a person with a brain as well as brawn - think and plan carefully before you have to fight.

The above is now the 3RD attempt at misinformation. First it was the deity with the name of Hung Shing, then it was for the Ming Emperor Hung Wu, and now we have a third alteration to their HUNG SING name. People really need to ignore this individual EXTRAJOSEPH as he is the Minister of LIES.

[hskwarrior]

Frank,
You are not familiar with Chinese correlative/associative thinking, when they say 10,000 they don't mean 10,000 exactly, they mean multitude of things. Using these famous names from different times does not meant Choy Fook literally studied with them all, it is so obviously impossible; it is meant to implied that the tradition of his learning came from the Shaolin practitioners of high levels of skill, that is all.
XJ

Look at him struggling to come up with more lies. i don't have to be chinese to get a Chinese person who is good with translating Chinese into English to translate information in Chinese for me.

[hskwarrior]

This is another out right dirty situation. It's well known that for the style of "CHOY LEE FUT" 蔡李佛 Chan heung was the original founder then Cheung Hung Sing came along and became a co-founder. In saying this, anyone or anything directly related to Chan Heung would be teaching nothing but "CHOY LEE FUT" 蔡李佛 as allegedly this was the name Chan Heung chose for the system he taught.

Originally, Chan Heung got all the attention because the Fut San lineages remained in the underground while Chan heung's lineages were very public. Then the last decade or so the Fut San lineages became very prominent in the martial arts world. since then i've witnessed Chan Heung related schools starting to call themselves "HUNG SING CHOY LEE FUT" which i find disrespectful to Chan Heung because his art was just Choy Lee Fut.

the mess just never stops.

[hskwarrior]

Frank,
You are not familiar with Chinese correlative/associative thinking, when they say 10,000 they don't mean 10,000 exactly, they mean multitude of things. Using these famous names from different times does not meant Choy Fook literally studied with them all, it is so obviously impossible; it is meant to implied that the tradition of his learning came from the Shaolin practitioners of high levels of skill, that is all.
XJ

Exactly as i said it would go down. this individual is trying to justify how you can claim a teacher without ever being that teachers student. this is a black eye for the legitimacy of gung fu.

[extrajoseph]

The above is now the 3RD attempt at misinformation. First it was the deity with the name of Hung Shing, then it was for the Ming Emperor Hung Wu, and now we have a third alteration to their HUNG SING name. People really need to ignore this individual EXTRAJOSEPH as he is the Minister of LIES.

Frank,
Both hypotheses being the deity and being the Ming emperor for Hong Sheng are not supported by the door couplet, which clearly explained the meaning for this particular chosen name by Choy Fook given to Chan Heung. Calling me names is not going to change the reality of the situation as explained:

洪材定取文章事
聖算還推武略通

“Great talent must obtain its matter from literature (and)
Sagely plans still need martial backing to succeed.”

XJ

[hskwarrior]

Hung Shing the deity

9444

[hskwarrior]

Hung Shing in regards to Hung Wu.....the Ming Emperor

9445

[extrajoseph]

Exactly as i said it would go down. this individual is trying to justify how you can claim a teacher without ever being that teachers student. this is a black eye for the legitimacy of gung fu.

God is supposed to have written the Bible, is it literally so or correlative association at work to express the idea that it is written by many authors inspired by God over time? It is not meant to be literal, Frank, it is an old fashion way of writing and it is used both in the East and the West.

[hskwarrior]

God is supposed to have written the Bible, is it literally so or correlative association at work to express the idea that it is written by many authors inspired by God over time? It is not meant to be literal, Frank, it is an old fashion way of writing and it is used both in the East and the West.

GOD didn't write anything down. GOD is not a human with human needs. stop the lies.

[extrajoseph]

the mess just never stops.

Frank, the mess never stops and CLF history still remains vague, not because it is not clearly documented, but it is because of money/prestige and politics. We should raise ourselves above this and respect our common root in Chan Heung and get on with it. You are wasting your time because you don't have the know-how nor the resource to do any worthwhile research, so spend your time on training and teaching instead. XJ.

[extrajoseph]

GOD didn't write anything down. GOD is not a human with human needs. stop the lies.

God is an inspiration, so were these teachers you mentioned who suppose to have taught Choy Fook in earlier times. This is what I meant by correlative association, it is not meant to be literal, do you get it?

[hskwarrior]

You are wasting your time because you don't have the know-how nor the resource to do any worthwhile research, so spend your time on training and teaching instead. XJ.

When you read my book you will see that i actually DO have my know how, and resources to have discovered the true identity of and a ton of information about the green grass monk. Sure, my sifu has put his true name out there. but he doesn't know the information i've compiled up to now. Including the origin of the "GREEN GRASS" name. i know enough to put the choy fook theory to SLEEP

Chan Heung definitely knew about and supported the Green Grass monk. I state that with pure confidence.

[hskwarrior]

I am of the Yuen Hai lineage of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut. I would be completely insane to ever say i was his student. GOD did not write down anything. and Yuen Hai never taught me anything. Even if i had books by yuen hai, i could never say he was my teacher. period.

[extrajoseph]

When you read my book you will see that i actually DO have my know how, and resources to have discovered the true identity of and a ton of information about the green grass monk. Sure, my sifu has put his true name out there. but he doesn't know the information i've compiled up to now. Including the origin of the "GREEN GRASS" name. i know enough to put the choy fook theory to SLEEP

Chan Heung definitely knew about and supported the Green Grass monk. I state that with pure confidence.

Do publish your book Frank, and we can evaluate it properly, I look forward to it. You might even force some of the Chan family descendents to open up their archive and that is not a bad thing. So far they have hold their tongue to keep the peace but you could change all that. CLF is now recognized by the government as an intangible heritage of China, so a lot will be at stake.

[extrajoseph]

I am of the Yuen Hai lineage of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut. I would be completely insane to ever say i was his student. GOD did not write down anything. and Yuen Hai never taught me anything. Even if i had books by yuen hai, i could never say he was my teacher. period.

But without Yuen Hai, you won't have a teacher of his lineage. The same without a God, we won't have a religion. Know your source when you drink your water Frank, it is that simple.

[hskwarrior]

Do publish your book Frank, and we can evaluate it properly, I look forward to it. You might even force some of the Chan family descendents to open up their archive and that is not a bad thing. So far they have hold their tongue to keep the peace but you could change all that. CLF is now recognized by the government as an intangible heritage of China, so a lot will be at stake.

oh you can believe Hung Sing and Buk has been holding their tongues as well which is equally as damaging as you allege yours could be.

[extrajoseph]

oh you can believe Hung Sing and Buk has been holding their tongues as well which is equally as damaging as you allege yours could be.

I believe we all have been "civil" about our history, except you and that is why I am here to provide an alternative point of view so it will not get out of hand and keep the balance.

[hskwarrior]

But without Yuen Hai, you won't have a teacher of his lineage. The same without a God, we won't have a religion. Know your source when you drink your water Frank, it is that simple.

Religion is for a bunch of lost souls in search of an answer. Religion is part of the problem. a big part.

You say know the source. Well, since there are no pictures of Chan Heung in the Hung Sing Kwoon's, no hand forms shared, no shared hoi jongs, nor flavor, style, mindset, and so much more......our source is Cheung Hung Sing. The founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut gung fu. Li Yau San, Chan Heung and Monk Ching Cho our ancestors. Ching Cho taught more gung fu to Cheung Hung Sing than Chan Heung or Li Yau San ever did.

fix your own house before trying to fix mine.

[extrajoseph]

Religion is for a bunch of lost souls in search of an answer. Religion is part of the problem. a big part.

You say know the source. Well, since there are no pictures of Chan Heung in the Hung Sing Kwoon's, no hand forms shared, no shared hoi jongs, nor flavor, style, mindset, and so much more......our source is Cheung Hung Sing. The founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut gung fu. Li Yau San, Chan Heung and Monk Ching Cho our ancestors. Ching Cho taught more gung fu to Cheung Hung Sing than Chan Heung or Li Yau San ever did.

fix your own house before trying to fix mine.

So you have more history and more stuff and that means more money and more prestige to you, see what I mean about changing history to get what you want?

[hskwarrior]

by Sifu Frank McCarthy

All across the board it is unanimously agreed upon that Jeung Hung Sing was only 12 years old when he first came to train under Chan Heung. His age is very significant in properly placing him within the family tree of the Choy Lee Fut system. For years, there was some controversy over his actual birth date because no one really knew what age he passed away either. However, many new revelations about the founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut came with the re-emergence of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon in 2001. For example, we now know he was married, a father, and he had a duel with Wing Chun's Master Leung Jan.

With all of the new information coming out of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon, we came to learn that Jeung Hung Sing died at the age of 69 years old in the year 1893. To figure out his birth year the logical thing to do at that time was subtract 69 years from 1893 which turned out to be the year 1824. The unanimously agreed upon age of Jeung Hung Sing was 12 years old and that would have placed him in the year 1836, the exact same year Chan Heung established his Choy Lee Fut system. In 1836 Chan Heung was only 30 years old, making him 18 years older than Jeung Hung Sing. Yet, after reading the accounts of some Choy Lee Fut schools it will leave you scratching your head.

In some accounts originating from Chan Heung's lineages they would have you believe that he was much older than Jeung Hung Sing. In fact, I've witnessed certain individuals interested in the history as well try to keep as much distance between them as possible in order to seem more credible. One of the ways they try to do this is by labeling Jeung Hung Sing as one of the last batch of Chan Heung's students in the year 1867. By doing this they are attempting to invalidate everything Jeung Hung Sing achieved prior to that year.

In 1867 Chan Heung was 61 years old and by trying to place Jeung Hung Sing as his student within this time frame only, their objective becomes extremely clear. They wanted to paint a picture of a much younger Jeung Hung Sing learning from a much older version of Chan Heung. However, that just wasn't the case. The twelve year old Jeung Hung Sing was training under a 30 year old Chan Heung. This means there was only an 18 year difference between them and not something like 40- 50 years as they wanted everyone to believe.

At the age of twelve years old Jeung Hung Sing would have viewed Chan Heung as a grown up but certainly not as an elderly person. He trained under Chan Heung for five years until he was seventeen years old. Within that time, it's alleged that Chan Heung travelled around promoting his gung fu and he took Jeung Hung Sing along with him. This in fact makes sense because according to my lineages history Chan Heung was responsible for the young man during this time. And five years is indeed sufficient enough time to gain a solid understanding of Choy Lee Fut's foundational material.

Now, the only known documentation of Jeung Hung Sing in Chan Heung's archives only mention that Jeung Hung Sing returned to Fut San in 1867 to re-open the Hung Sing Kwoon. The way it is written seems to infer that Chan Heung was the person who originally sent Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San to assume control of a Choy Lee Fut school that recently closed due to the master going blind. At the same time, ignoring the fact that historically Jeung Hung Sing is reported to have established his school in 1851.

Additionally, in 1864 Chan Heung was 58 years old and Jeung Hung Sing was 40 years old when the both of them fled to hong kong after the Tai Ping Rebellion was over. It was here that they reunited for the first time after 26 years. By this time, Chan Heung was well aware of Jeung Hung Sing's accomplishments and since they were both members of the Hung Mun branch that was founded by the Green Grass Monk he treated him like a brother instead of a former student.

According to the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon history, Jeung Hung Sing taught Chan Heung some of the Fut Gar Kuen he learned from the Green Grass Monk. And, because he was influential in the further evolution of Chan Heung's creation our lineage refers to Jeung Hung Sing as a co-founder of sorts because of his contributions. However, this seemed to upset a few students under the Chan Heung banner. They began falsely accusing the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon lineages of trying to rewrite the history as THEY knew it. The only problem was, much of what they were trying to tell us about our own history didn't fit or add up at all.

Another Issue regarding the ages of both Jeung Hung Sing and Chan Heung was we two separate birth dates for Chan Heung. The King Mui lineages state he was born in 1806. The Fut San sources claim his real birth year was 1815. If this latter date is correct that makes Chan Heung only 9 years older than Jeung Hung Sing instead of an 18 year difference. I've also heard it said that they(King Mui) changed Chan Heung's birth year to make him look much older than Jeung Hung Sing.

During my research I happened to come across a PDF file online that outlined Chan Heung's life. In the article it mentioned that Chan Heung was of a certain age when some kind of event took place. When I counted backwards from the date given, by their own account Chan Heung was born in 1815. I mentioned this on a kung fu forum and then next thing I knew the original author omitted that section immediately afterwards. The only explanation he gave was he made a mistake.

In conclusion, truth always prevails in the end. The Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon lineages have never budged in what has been taught to us in regards to our history. Nor have we ever tried to rewrite anything. The only thing we are doing is telling our side of the story as it was passed down to us via our elders. We are a proud bunch of students, masters and grand masters striving to keep our legacy intact and unadulterated.

Long Live Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut aka Hung Sing Kuen!!!!!

[hskwarrior]

So you have more history and more stuff and that means more money and more prestige to you, see what I mean about change history to gain more money and prestige?

you think i'm doing this for money and prestige? LMAO. I'm doing this for the honor of my lineage Mr Minster of Deceit.

[extrajoseph]

you think i'm doing this for money and prestige? LMAO. I'm doing this for the honor of my lineage Mr Minster of Deceit.

So you are doing this for the honor of your lineage at the detriment of other lineage, how honorable!

[hskwarrior]

So you are doing this for the honor of your lineage at the detriment of other lineage, how honorable!

you mean while the other lineage tells untruths about my lineage to benefit themselves? for example:



WHO SENT JEUNG HUNG SING TO FUT SAN?

by Sifu McCarthy 2/01/2014

The year 1867 was the only time Jeung Hung Sing was mentioned in Chan Heung's records. And, the only thing stated was that he returned to Fut San to re-open his Hung Sing Kwoon. It's at this point that Chan Heung related branches assume-for some unknown reason-that this was the time Chan Heung sent him to Fut San. Another big mistake is they also say Chan Heung sent him to Fut San to take over as the successor of Chan Din Foon's school because he went blind. However much of this is untrue when viewed from the perspective of Jeung Hung Sing's Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

Again, Chan Heung's records only say Jeung Hung Sing returned to Fut San to re-open his Hung Sing Kwoon in 1867. Still, not much thought was put into that statement because Jeung Hung Sing clearly returned to "RE-OPEN" his school that he previously established in 1851, but closed it down due to the Tai Ping Rebellion. It wasn't possible for Jeung Hung Sing to take over Chan Din Foon's school in 1867 because he didn't go blind until 1875. As well, Jeung Hung Sing was already in Fut San from 1867 to 1875 so Chan Heung couldn't have sent him there since he was already there in the first place.

The truth of the matter is, in 1849 the Green Grass Monk was the one to send Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San. He basically had three instructions. 1) Go to Fut San and make contact with the triad leaders, 2) open a school using the "Hung Sing" name, 3) prepare the revolutionary fighters for war. That was his purpose in the city of Fut San and not the false story of Chan Heung sending him there to open and represent the "Great Sage" school. If the opposite were true, there would have been absolutely no reason for Jeung Hung Sing to take down the Great Sage name and replace it with his Glorious Victory school's name.

Why did Jeung Hung Sing need to return to Fut San and re-open his school for in the first place, right? Well, at the end of the Tai Ping Rebellion in 1864, the soldiers of Qing Empire were hunting for rebels. Although they left at separate times, in between the years 1864 to 1867 they fled to Hong Kong to wait until things cooled down enough for them to return to King Mui and Fut San. The three years they spent in Hong Kong catching up on things was long enough for Jeung Hung Sing to re-enter the Choy Lee Fut picture. Except, this time he came back as a co-founder of sorts because of his contributions to the further advancement of the Choy Lee Fut system.

Perhaps in the time they spent together in Hong Kong, maybe Chan Heung and Jeung Hung Sing discussed choosing a new name of his school. Because if Jeung Hung Sing was going to re-open it he was going to need a new name so not to draw attention to himself. Then in 1867 they returned to their respective schools to pick up where they left off. Except now, Choy Lee Fut has sprouted a new and separate branch called Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut, founded by Jeung Hung Sing. Hopefully, this will put who sent Jeung Hung Sing to Fut San to rest as we've always claimed from the beginning, it was the Green Grass Monk who sent Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San.

[hskwarrior]

But without Yuen Hai, you won't have a teacher of his lineage. The same without a God, we won't have a religion. Know your source when you drink your water Frank, it is that simple.

Choy Fook should have then claimed to be OF their lineage but clarify he was not actually taught by these people.

[extrajoseph]

There were branches everywhere, in Hong Kong, in Guangzhou, in Sun Wui and in Kong Mun etc. They all taught a similar curriculum, there was nothing extra special about Futsan over others.

[extrajoseph]

Frank, You just want to make your lineage bigger and better. You can do it with action, there is no need to and you can't do it through history.

[hskwarrior]

There were branches everywhere, in Hong Kong, in Guangzhou, in Sun Wui and in Kong Mun etc. They all taught a similar curriculum, there was nothing extra special about Futsan over others.

nothing extra special. LMAO. you sound like FORMS were far more important than real combat skills. Our forms are absolutely different in appearance, feel, and application in comparison to those of the chan heung lineages. therefore you may keep all of your forms....we don't need those.

Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon of Cheung Hung Sing was THE most famous school of CLF in southern China, followed by Chan Ngau Sing who took it to the next level.

[hskwarrior]

Frank, You just want to make your lineage bigger and better. You can do it with action, there is no need to and you can't do it through history.

Negative. WE are who WE are. plain and simple. the most famous branch of CLF. hands down. don't be mad. it just is.

you're just upset that our history puts a shadow on yours, if this weren't true you folks would have never kept altering your history as often as you have. the base of our history has been the same since the beginning of time.

[extrajoseph]

Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon of Cheung Hung Sing was THE most famous school of CLF in southern China, followed by Chan Ngau Sing who took it to the next level.

Wow, Futsan WAS the most famous CLF school in southern China! ...and now?

[hskwarrior]

Wow, Futsan WAS the most famous CLF school in southern China! ...and now?

yes. i didn't stutter. Now, it is very famous as well, since so many people keep flocking to our school there in fut san.

did i hurt your intellectual feewings? not sorry. not in the least.

[hskwarrior]

In the end, i am NOT insulting the Chan Family. We don't have any obvious connection aside from the name. we are the FUT SAN GREAT VICTORY SCHOOL......and very proud of it. i am only correcting their mistakes in regards to my lineages history.

[extrajoseph]

I am very happy for you Frank and others are doing just as well as Futsan, so lets cut out the BS about ours and your history stuff and get on with promoting CLF if you are proud of the art.

[hskwarrior]

I am very happy for you Frank and others are doing just as well as Futsan, so lets cut out the BS about ours and your history stuff and get on with promoting CLF if you are proud of the art.

GREAT FOR THEM. THIS! THIS is a thread of Cheung Hung Sing: Founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu

You promote yours. I will promote mine. if you don't like seeing our history then don't read it. but trying to get me to stop sharing our history seems like YOU have something to hide

Remember, you once said there is no Pak Pai Mountain, and in THIS THREAD i have proven YOU wrong.

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvt3O98zcaE

[hskwarrior]

Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut IS a Hung "(洪)" Family fighting method



by Sifu Frank McCarthy 02-18-14

Hung Gar (洪家) gung fu is one of the more famous styles of Chinese Martial Arts to come from Southern China. "Hung" (洪) means Vast, Flood, and is a surname, while Gar (家) means family. This style was founded by Hung Hei Gung and further popularized by people like Wong Fei Hung. The martial arts its members practiced came to be called "Hung Gar" and "Hung Kuen" deep low stances, powerful hand techniques, and their trademarked Hung Gar bridge hand. They also have a strong connection with the Chinese secret society known as the Hung Mun 洪門 (Hung Gate). In fact, the majority of southern styles of gung fu were deeply intertwined with the secret society.
The Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (佛山洪勝/鴻勝舘) as founded by Jeung Hung Sing and his Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut (鴻勝蔡李佛) system is one of those styles categorized within the realm of "Hung Gar Kuen" or Hung Family Fist. Let me explain, I'm not saying we are part of the Hung Gar Kung Fu system, you won't see us doing their identifiable Kiu Sow. However, what I am saying is that the fighting method of Hung Sing Choy Lee fut created by Jeung Hung Sing is indeed an art with deep roots to the Hung Mun aka Hung Family. Contrary to popular belief, Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut wasn't established for Chan Heung in order to spread and promote the "Choy Lee Fut" style. It was exclusively created and developed to become a fighting art of the Hung Mun aka Hung Society and utilized in warfare right away.
Jeung Yim never completed Chan Heung's Choy Lee Fut system and therefore could not have been representing Choy Lee Fut between the years of 1841-1867 for a few reasons. In 1841 Chan Heung was forced to ask Jeung Hung Sing to leave the Chan village in King Mui and instructed him to go to the Baat Pai Mountain which is found in the LouDing Province near the border of Guangxi. Jeung Yim was to locate a monk who went by the name of Ching Cho (Green Grass) to see if he would be able to complete his gung fu training. After he found the monk his training took 8 years to finish learning the Shaolin Fut Gar system. Then the Green Grass monk gives him a new name and instructions that would change Jeung Yim's life forever.
In the time that Jeung Yim was away learning a new style under Monk Ching Cho, Chan Heung continued to develop his Choy Lee Fut system. It's entirely safe to state that Jeung Yim didn't get a chance to update his Choy Lee Fut training under Chan Heung during those years because of his absence. In fact, there's no mention of Chan Heung in Jeung Hung Sing's life between 1841-1867 and two and half plus decades is a long time to not be in Choy Lee Fut's picture. Imagine how far Choy Lee Fut advanced by that time and Jeung Yim wasn't there to pick any of that up. Still, he had whatever he learned from Chan Heung for those first 5 years.
Another thing contrary to popular belief was Jeung Ah Yim wasn't sent to Fut San to establish a Choy Lee Fut school for Chan Heung. As a matter of fact, it was Monk Ching Cho who sent him there for a purpose. In those days the Chinese secret society preferred to communicate their messages in the forms of ****nyms, metaphors and ambiguous poetry or slogans. First he changed Jeung Yim's name to Hung Sing (洪勝 - Hung Victory) which was an abridged version of the Hung Mun's "Mission Statement" about overthrowing the Qing Empire. The secret behind the name is that it means "the Hung Mun will be Victorious in overthrowing the Qing Dynasty".

The next thing that Monk Ching Cho did was instruct the newly named Jeung Hung Sing to travel to Fut San in order to make contact with the triad leaders there. Then he was to set up a school to train the freedom fighters for the up and coming Tai Ping Rebellion. At the time the Sam Hop Wui had its headquarters in the city of Fut San. Its believed that Jeung Hung Sing was also a member of this section of the Hung Mun. Interestingly enough, the Sam Hop Wui was founded by the Green Grass Monk.

Jeung Hung Sing and his direct disciples fought in every major uprising in southern China between 1851 and the time of his death in 1893. In all of Fut San Jeung Yim's "Hung Sing Kwoon" virtually encompassed the entire city. Eventually it grew into the "Hung Sing Wui" or Hung Sing Society. Although Jeung Hung Sing passed away, the connection to the Hung Society continued on through his students and grand students. Following in the same manner as their founder and Grand Master thousands of Hung Sing students rose up in revolution after revolution against homegrown and foreign aggression.

In the eyes of those who were afraid to lose their position of power, Hung Sing students were rebels who associated themselves with "gangsters" and outlaws. In the eyes of the people, and later in the eyes of their government, Hung Sing students were heroes. Additionally, students of Chan Heung's legacy were also hero's because of their own part in the revolution. In fact, a couple of Chan Heung's grand students Cheng Si Leung, Chan Siu Bak were partners with Dr Sun Yat Sen in his mission to overthrow the Manchurians. Students like Yuen Hai and Chan Ngau Sing in addition to grand Students of Jeung Hung Sing like Chin Wai Fong, LiangGuihua, Li Guanghai, and Wu Qin played very crucial roles in events like the Xinhai Revolution of 1911 and the Japanese invasion.

While Wu Qin became one of Dr. Sun Yat Sen's bodyguards for swimming out and planted a bomb on and sunk a Japanese war Ship, others were hired to teach combat at the Wampo Military Academy. Then over in the United States, the connection to the Hung Mun continued through Professor's Lau Bun and Jew Leong, Grand Master Dino Salvatera and Sifu Frank McCarthy. While there is no more revolutions taking place, the American Hung Sing Kwoon's involvement was always out of loyalty and tradition. As a student of Hung Sing and a member of the Hung Society I am very proud to be a part of this legacy that has been running through the veins of the Hung Sing Kwoon for more than 163 years now.

As I sit back and reflect on the extensive relationship between Choy Lee Fut, Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut and the Hung Mun i see more clearly now that while Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut has its connection to Chan Heung's Choy Lee Fut, our lineage wasn't developed to benefit Chan Heung. It was undoubtedly created, designed, and utilized for the Hung Mun. It would be incorrect to say Chan Heung gave birth to Jeung Hung Sing's lineage. If indeed this was the case, you would find more than a few forms created and passed down by Chan Heung,but, the fact of the matter is that Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon doesn't possess one single form passed down within the King Mui, Jiangmen, Kong Chow, or any schools closely related to Chan Heung. Therefore, when comparing Choy Lee Fut and Hung Mun, all fingers point to us being a school of the Hung family.
Hung for life.

[extrajoseph]

Your tail is showing, Frank, all this made-up history is to show that yours is the greatest. Ho hum.

[hskwarrior]

Your tail is showing, Frank, all this made-up history is to show that yours is the greatest. Ho hum.

gasping for air are you? "Made up history" sounds like the music of a BITTER PERSON. who's showing their tail? hahahahahahahahahahahha

[hskwarrior]

http://www.fshongshengtang.com/

[CLFNole]

Looks like the band got back together...:p

[hskwarrior]

time to bring some life back to this place hahaha

[hskwarrior]

9470
..................

[hskwarrior]

9474...........

[hskwarrior]

9475.....................

[iron_silk]

9474...........

Sifu Frank,

I am curious where you go the pictures for Choy Fook, Li Yau San, and Chan Yuen Wu?

They all look eerily the same...and I know how all us Chinese "look a like" to some but...

I swear they took Choy Fook...added glasses to become Li Yau San, and then added a cap to become Chan Yuen Wu.

Just an observation. :)

[hskwarrior]

I use the picture of Lee Yau San without a face to show there is no actual picture of him.

Choy Fook, Lee Yau San and Chan Yuen Wu came from Doc Fai Wong's website. It's the only image of the two regardless of it being their own artwork to represent them.

I use the one for lee yau san as i do for Yuen Hai, Qian Wei Fang, Ho Yee, and others. i don't like to leave a black spot. i prefer to have an image even if its without a face.

The pic use came from an actual painting of one of my hung mun brothers from days of old.

the chan yuen wu and choy fook look mad alike. he even has one for Lee Yau San as well.

yeah, they all look like the exact same person.

[iron_silk]

I use the picture of Lee Yau San without a face to show there is no actual picture of him.

Choy Fook, Lee Yau San and Chan Yuen Wu came from Doc Fai Wong's website. It's the only image of the two regardless of it being their own artwork to represent them.

I use the one for lee yau san as i do for Yuen Hai, Qian Wei Fang, Ho Yee, and others. i don't like to leave a black spot. i prefer to have an image even if its without a face.

The pic use came from an actual painting of one of my hung mun brothers from days of old.

the chan yuen wu and choy fook look mad alike. he even has one for Lee Yau San as well.

yeah, they all look like the exact same person.


Thanks for the info. I agree that it's better than leaving a blank spot.

[iron_silk]

Sifu Frank,

In Hung Sing CLF there are 8 Hand Forms?

Was Cheung Hung Sing able to pass on all his knowledge prior to his passing?

Just curious.

[CLFNole]

I think the 8 hand forms could be a bit of a legend because not all hung sing branches seem to have them; however names could have changed over time and forms could have been combined.

[hskwarrior]

Sifu Frank,

In Hung Sing CLF there are 8 Hand Forms?

Was Cheung Hung Sing able to pass on all his knowledge prior to his passing?

Just curious.

to be PERFECTLY honest, we don't know exactly what Cheung Hung Sing was teaching in regards to hand forms during his life aside from his personal Drunken Form. The one form we do know he taught was called "In and Out Bagua Kuen". During Chan Sing's generation this form was broken up into three smaller forms Called Cheung Kuen (360 Moves), Ping Kuen (280 Moves) and Kau Da Kuen (180 Moves).

Cheung Hung Sing also taught his own Drunken Form (Jui Jow Lan Da Kuen)- my sifu know's this form.

The 8 alleged forms are real forms. HOWEVER, i personally believe the 8 forms are posthumous forms (after Cheung Hung Sing's passing). why? because forms like Fut San Ping Kuen wasn't created by Cheung Hung Sing. it's origins to me begins with Chan Ngau Sing.

Chui Kwong Yuen's lineage has them. Now, the Elephant form (Mon Jeung) of Lau Bun's lineage is apart of these forms.

If we allow Doc Fai Wong to tell it, this is what HE has to say about it: After Chan Heung founded Choy Li Fut in 1836, he also actively participated in the anti-Manchurian government revolution. He spent a lot of effort training a group of students to get involved with the activities of the revolution. In 1848 Chan Heung set up 18 schools branched out all over the Guangdong and Guangxi provinces of Southern China. At that time, Hong Xiu Quan started the Taiping Rebellion and was the leader. He wanted to establish a new dynasty called the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom. Because the Taiping Rebellion started, Chan Heung used eight Chinese characters to created eight major Choy Li Fut hand forms. Those were: Tai, Ping, Tian, Guo, Chang, An, Wan, Nian , which means “long live the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom.” Chan Heung taught these eight forms to his students and encouraged them to participate in the revolutionary activities.

To conclude, personally i don't believe these forms were taught by Cheung Yim. Since Yuen Hai was one of Cheung Yim's more senior disciples ( Chan Sing's Senior by 20 or more years) and we don't teach them minus the Mon Jeung, I believe they were given birth to by Chan Ngau Sing.


Was Cheung Hung Sing able to pass on all his knowledge prior to his passing?

I would say yes. To whom? I would say Yuen Hai for sure since he was with Cheung Hung Sing from the very beginning all the way until his death. When Lau Bun learned from Yuen Hai he was taught Cheung Kuen, Ping Kuen, Kau Da Kuen, Sup Ji Kuen, Mon Jeung, in addition to weapon forms. Remember, Lau Bun was in the USA when Chan Sing was still alive. So while Lau Bun was here, Chan Sing most likely kept creating new stuff and passed it down to his Fut San Students. so, it is my strong belief that Yuen Hai learned all Cheung Hung Sing had to teach as well as picking up the other forms.

[iron_silk]

to be PERFECTLY honest, we don't know exactly what Cheung Hung Sing was teaching in regards to hand forms during his life aside from his personal Drunken Form. The one form we do know he taught was called "In and Out Bagua Kuen". During Chan Sing's generation this form was broken up into three smaller forms Called Cheung Kuen (360 Moves), Ping Kuen (280 Moves) and Kau Da Kuen (180 Moves).

Cheung Hung Sing also taught his own Drunken Form (Jui Jow Lan Da Kuen)- my sifu know's this form.

The 8 alleged forms are real forms. HOWEVER, i personally believe the 8 forms are posthumous forms (after Cheung Hung Sing's passing). why? because forms like Ping Kuen wasn't created by Cheung Hung Sing. it's origins to me begins with Chan Ngau Sing.

Chui Kwong Yuen's lineage has them. Now, the Elephant form (Mon Jeung) of Lau Bun's lineage is apart of these forms.

If we allow Doc Fai Wong to tell it, this is what HE has to say about it: After Chan Heung founded Choy Li Fut in 1836, he also actively participated in the anti-Manchurian government revolution. He spent a lot of effort training a group of students to get involved with the activities of the revolution. In 1848 Chan Heung set up 18 schools branched out all over the Guangdong and Guangxi provinces of Southern China. At that time, Hong Xiu Quan started the Taiping Rebellion and was the leader. He wanted to establish a new dynasty called the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom. Because the Taiping Rebellion started, Chan Heung used eight Chinese characters to created eight major Choy Li Fut hand forms. Those were: Tai, Ping, Tian, Guo, Chang, An, Wan, Nian , which means “long live the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom.” Chan Heung taught these eight forms to his students and encouraged them to participate in the revolutionary activities.

To conclude, personally i don't believe these forms were taught by Cheung Yim. Since Yuen Hai was one of Cheung Yim's more senior disciples ( Chan Sing's Senior by 20 or more years) and we don't teach them minus the Mon Jeung, I believe they were given birth to by Chan Ngau Sing.



I would say yes. To whom? I would say Yuen Hai for sure since he was with Cheung Hung Sing from the very beginning all the way until his death. When Lau Bun learned from Yuen Hai he was taught Cheung Kuen, Ping Kuen, Kau Da Kuen, Sup Ji Kuen, Mon Jeung, in addition to weapon forms. Remember, Lau Bun was in the USA when Chan Sing was still alive. So while Lau Bun was here, Chan Sing most likely kept creating new stuff and passed it down to his Fut San Students. so, it is my strong belief that Yuen Hai learned all Cheung Hung Sing had to teach as well as picking up the other forms.


This is very interesting. Thank you so much for sharing. Who knew there would be so much difference within lineages so close together.

I am especially interesting in the Drunken Form you mentioned that was created by Cheung Hung Sing.

Thanks!

[hskwarrior]

This is very interesting. Thank you so much for sharing. Who knew there would be so much difference within lineages so close together.

Difference. Difference is expected when two people separately develop something at the same time. Cheung Hung Sing trained with Chan Heung from 1836-1841. They didn't reunite until 1864 after the tai ping rebellion was over. they were in hong kong. So, between 1841-1864 (23 years) Chan Heung continued to develop HIS CLF while Cheung Yim was off learning Fut Gar from Monk Ching Cho from 1841-1849 then went to Fut San right after to participate in the Tai Ping Rebellion and train their fighters. Then from 1849 to 1864 Chan Heung continued on developing his system while Cheung Hung Sing was fighting in the revolution.

Between 1864-1867 Chan Heung and Cheung Hung Sing reunited and for three years advanced Choy Lee Fut together. Then from 1867 to 1893 (Cheung Hung Sing's Death) Chan Heung and Cheung Hung Sing agreed to continue separately developing their respective lineages. What is found in the King Mui lineages are not found in Cheung Hung Sing's lineage.

Now, if Cheung Hung Sing was representing Chan Heung and CH's CLF, then in 1875 when he took over the blind guys school who was using Chan Heung's Great Sage name, Cheung Hung Sing would not have taken down THAT name to replace it with his own Great Victory name.

There's no real evidence that the two lineages were so close to each other.


I am especially interesting in the Drunken Form you mentioned that was created by Cheung Hung Sing.

Thanks!

All i can tell you is that it doesn't have the movie style Drunken BS in it. But it will never be shared to the public from what i know unless someone breaks rank and shares it with the world like Troy Dunwood did with our elephant form.

[hskwarrior]

Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
to be PERFECTLY honest, we don't know exactly what Cheung Hung Sing was teaching in regards to hand forms during his life aside from his personal Drunken Form. The one form we do know he taught was called "In and Out Bagua Kuen". During Chan Sing's generation this form was broken up into three smaller forms Called Cheung Kuen (360 Moves), Ping Kuen (280 Moves) and Kau Da Kuen (180 Moves).

Let me clarify. After all i've researched i've come to think Cheung Hung Sing was not interested in teaching hand forms between 1851-1893. They were extremely busy fighting in every single revolution in southern China all the way up to 1949. As we all know, hand forms take time to master which is what active revolutionaries didn't have the luxory of (time). For example, if you were a General of an army, would you force your soldiers to practice and master hand forms (as if they will be done for a competition or demo)? Or, would you train you guys on the fighting aspect to make sure their combat skills are up to par? If i were a general, i would be focusing on the latter and make sure my students were combat ready. Hand forms were for a time of peace when no one was actively fighting. Makes me wonder how Chan Heung had so much time to create so many forms.

[iron_silk]

All i can tell you is that it doesn't have the movie style Drunken BS in it. But it will never be shared to the public from what i know unless someone breaks rank and shares it with the world like Troy Dunwood did with our elephant form.

Troy Dunwood he does seem to have learned quite a bit of different styles. His new focus is on Pek Kwar lately I believe.

I would love to see Drunken form you speak of (even if without the theatrics). A move or two would suffice? :o

[hskwarrior]

I haven't learned it. not really interested in it. but i do know it doesn't have that drunken feel about it tho.
i don't think anyone has it on film either. it's a pretty guarded set.

Troy has been switch hittin' for years now. The last one was he came out and said he was dropping all styles and just going all out Hung Sing CLF. what seemed only a few weeks later he totally reversed and said he was dropping hung sing to teach blah blah blah. he's done that so many times now, something had to stop. either you're with us or you're not. I wish him luck tho.

[iron_silk]

I haven't learned it. not really interested in it. but i do know it doesn't have that drunken feel about it tho.
i don't think anyone has it on film either. it's a pretty guarded set.

Troy has been switch hittin' for years now. The last one was he came out and said he was dropping all styles and just going all out Hung Sing CLF. what seemed only a few weeks later he totally reversed and said he was dropping hung sing to teach blah blah blah. he's done that so many times now, something had to stop. either you're with us or you're not. I wish him luck tho.

Understood.

He does seem to switch quite a bit over the years. Maybe he just has a lot of love to give and couldn't quite settle?

I am impressed with the massive amount of styles he is able to store. Then again...something is said for being able to specialize in one style and really focus on it so you can take it to another level.

[CLFNole]

Frank where did you find out about Cheung Yim creating a drunken set? Seems odd he would create a drunken set then more odd that you say its not very drunken. I have always had my reservations about "drunken" in general. We have a set but to be honest the whole idea of acting drunk makes no sense to me.

[hskwarrior]

Frank where did you find out about Cheung Yim creating a drunken set?

I don't believe i said he created one. However, i did say his personal Drunken Form. Jui Jow Lan Da Kuen. Actually there is more than one drunken form in Fut San Hung Sing, but according the Fut San that was his form.

In regards to its appearance, i can't speak on it. Sifu only showed me a few moves, but to me, i have no interest in a drunken form. However i hear its an intentionally SLOPPY looking form tho.

Still,it was the techniques from this drunken form Cheung Yim would use to defeat new potential students. he did it with both Yuen Hai and Chan Sing.

[CLFNole]

So it wasn't his creation but rather something he was taught? Is this something Futsan discovered or did you?

[hskwarrior]

So it wasn't his creation but rather something he was taught? Is this something Futsan discovered or did you?

It's not something Fut San discovered. It's something allegedly already there. Did he learn it from Monk Ching Cho? idk. I doubt he picked it up from Chan Heung tho. But there is tons of info in fut san that none of us outside of China was privy to. People tend to use their own perspective when thinking about fut san but Fut San was where it all started for my lineage. Unless its stories like killing a tiger with his bare hands or even a coat hanger as in Chan Heung's story i have no reason to disbelieve them. The story of how Cheung Yim defeated certain people was first told to me by my sigung Jew Leong. then Fut San confirmed the manner by telling their story about the same thing in regards to Chan Sing.

Again, Fut San is the birthplace of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut. I cannot willingly dismiss what they say about our founder since we are all outsiders. our beliefs or disbeliefs is neither here nor there in regards to what went down in fut san. All i can do is listen and use common sense just in case something doesn't sound right.

[hskwarrior]

One of the great things about Cheung Hung Sing was he doesn't have any outlandish stories of killing tigers, super feats of strength, no magical spells, or tales of devastating Chi. He was a well known revolutionary fighter who was also referred to by styles such as wing chun as one of Southern China's greatest fighters.

[hskwarrior]

Another example of information unavailable those outside of china was Cheung Hung Sing was married and had two sons who died early on in life. His wife's name was Chan Kay. Outside of China, none of us knew this. we didn't know what year he died prior to fut san hung sing re-opening. We never knew Chan Sing had any written documentation before either. **** we didn't even know if Chan Sing had a family. But, even today his great grand daughter still practices her great grand fathers style.

[iron_silk]

One of the great things about Cheung Hung Sing was he doesn't have any outlandish stories of killing tigers, super feats of strength, no magical spells, or tales of devastating Chi. He was a well known revolutionary fighter who was also referred to by styles such as wing chun as one of Southern China's greatest fighters.

I get what you mean

BUT it seems a little unfair to lump in "killing tiger" and "super feats of strength" with "magical spells" and "devastating chi"

The first two is at least "plausible" if not rare but that last two is pure "fantasy"

[hskwarrior]

BUT it seems a little unfair to lump in "killing tiger" and "super feats of strength" with "magical spells" and "devastating chi"

The first two is at least "plausible" if not rare but that last two is pure "fantasy"

anyone who says they killed a tiger with his bare hands or even the coat hanger is FULL OF ****

[iron_silk]

anyone who says they killed a tiger with his bare hands or even the coat hanger is FULL OF ****

Perhaps...under the right circumstances?

Was it bare hands? Darn!

[hskwarrior]

Perhaps...under the right circumstances?

Was it bare hands? Darn!

don't really know. their story changes more than a female changes her clothes.

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wh0e0nP7z4

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrHz8a25Sb8

[DaiSihingPerez]

I don't know if Grandmaster Doc-Fai Wong was brought up in this discussion. But his Federation (himself as well) was very close with the Chan Family lineage all the way down to the gatekeeper of the system. His website does have some great history as well. It's always good to see Kung Fu brothers through out the world.

Side note; don't know if it was cleared up but the "Fut" part is both for Buddha, Chan Heung's teacher's were all Shaolin Monks. As well Chan Heung visited the Fut San Village in China.

[hskwarrior]

I don't know if Grandmaster Doc-Fai Wong was brought up in this discussion. But his Federation (himself as well) was very close with the Chan Family lineage all the way down to the gatekeeper of the system. His website does have some great history as well. It's always good to see Kung Fu brothers through out the world.

Side note; don't know if it was cleared up but the "Fut" part is both for Buddha, Chan Heung's teacher's were all Shaolin Monks. As well Chan Heung visited the Fut San Village in China.

For Choy Lee Fut, the "FUT" is definitely for Buddha. But, in the Fut San lineage that i represent "Fut" represents the style taught to Cheung Hung Sing by the monk Ching Cho.

I never heard that Chan Heung visited Fut San....that's a new one to me.

While this thread is about the Fut San branch of Cheung Hung Sing, welcome to the forum.

[DaiSihingPerez]

For Choy Lee Fut, the "FUT" is definitely for Buddha. But, in the Fut San lineage that i represent "Fut" represents the style taught to Cheung Hung Sing by the monk Ching Cho.

I never heard that Chan Heung visited Fut San....that's a new one to me.

While this thread is about the Fut San branch of Cheung Hung Sing, welcome to the forum.


I don't know if Chan Heung ever actully visited the village, but he did establish a school there.

[hskwarrior]

I don't know if Chan Heung ever actully visited the village, but he did establish a school there.

Chan Heung had a student who opened in Fut San, allegedly. however, the years he was there are questionable. As I'm mentioned in this thread, Cheung Hung Sing was in Fut San from 1849 until his death in 1893. he took over the blind guys school around 1875 or 1876. The information claiming that Chan Heung sent Cheung Hung Sing to Fut San in 1867 is not true. Sure, Cheung Hung Sing may have taken over the physical location of the Blind Guys school, but he wasn't Chan Din Yuen's successor. If he was the successor there, there was no need to take down that guys Great Sage school name to replace it with his own school name that was different than Chan Heung's school name.

[DaiSihingPerez]

Chan Heung had a student who opened in Fut San, allegedly. however, the years he was there are questionable. As I'm mentioned in this thread, Cheung Hung Sing was in Fut San from 1849 until his death in 1893. he took over the blind guys school around 1875 or 1876. The information claiming that Chan Heung sent Cheung Hung Sing to Fut San in 1867 is not true. Sure, Cheung Hung Sing may have taken over the physical location of the Blind Guys school, but he wasn't Chan Din Yuen's successor. If he was the successor there, there was no need to take down that guys Great Sage school name to replace it with his own school name that was different than Chan Heung's school name.



In 1867, Chan Heung 陳享 sent one of his next batch of student, Jeong Yim 張炎 to Fut San 佛山 (Foshan) to take over the school originally established by Chan Din-Foon 陳典桓 in 1848. Eventually, Jeong Yim became known as the "father of the Hung Sing School of Choy Li Fut" in Fut San.

It is generally thought that there are two schools of Choy Li Fut: hung sing 洪勝 and bak sing 北勝, and that there are two representatives of the hung sing school. During the revolution of the mid-1800s, the Hung Moon 洪門 Party represented all revolutionary factions, including Choy Li Fut representatives. Choy Li Fut schools had a secret slogan during these times: "Hung 洪 Ying 英 Ji 至 Sing 聖 ; Ying英 Hung 雄 Wing 永 Sing 勝. " This translates as: "Heroes of the Hung Party are superior; Heroes always win." Chan Heung's followers adopted two words of the motto as their secret passwords “Hung Sing 洪勝” which meant "Hung Party wins." But, because that was too close to the outlawed Hung Moon Party name, they changed it to another slogan which sounds the same as Hung Sing 鴻勝, but means "goose winning."

Meanwhile, the Fut San Choy Li Fut School of Jeong Yim 張炎 bore the name "Hung Sing Kwoon 鴻勝舘" (using the "Hung" that means goose). Some of his students began referring to him as Jeong Hung Sing 張鴻勝. By the time his school had developed a third generation of students, the true meaning of "Hung Sing" had been lost, and his third generation students believed him to be the founder of a type of Choy Li Fut known as Hung Sing Choy Li Fut. To clarify the issue, Chan Heung's son, Koon-Pak 官伯, changed the name Hung 鴻 Sing to a different Hung 雄 meaning "strong." From that time on, Choy Li Fut schools in Koon Pak's King Mui area designated themselves with the slogan Hung Sing 雄勝, meaning "Strong Winning," while the Fut San schools kept their "goose winning" Hung Sing 鴻勝 motto. Hence, the belief that there are two Hung Sing Choy Li Fut schools.

The Bak Sing 北勝 branch of Choy Li Fut 蔡李佛 can be traced back to Jeong Yim 張炎 in Fut San. Jeong Yim had three principal students. One of them was Lui Chaun 雷粲, who had a student named Tam Sam 譚三. Tam Sam had a Choy Li Fut school in Guangzhou, in a district called Siu Bak 小北 (which translates as "little north"). His school bore the name Siu Bak Hung Sing Choy Li Fut Club. That name was too long to be spoken comfortably, so it was changed to Bak Sing Choy Li Fut to pay respects to their teacher, Tam Sam’s students referred to themselves as the Bak Sing branch of Choy Li Fut.

The most famous student and also the successor of Jeong Yim 張炎 was Chan Ngau-Sing 陳牛盛. Grandmaster Doc-Fai Wong 黄德輝’s second teacher, Dr. Hu Yuen Chou (Woo Van Cheuk) 胡雲綽 studied from him from the age of nine in Fut San Hung Sing School’s headquarters. Lau Bun 劉彬 was Grandmaster Wong’s first Choy Li Fut teacher; he learned his kung fu from Yuen Hai 阮系, one of the three principal students of Jeong Yim 張炎. The heritage of these two famous teachers of our Grandmaster who handed down the powerful fighting art to us is called the Fut San 佛山 lineage because it is from the Hung Sing School of Fut San city, Guangdong 廣東 province.

Dr. Hu Yuen-Chou’s second Choy Li Fut 蔡李佛 teacher was Chan Yiu-Chi 陳耀墀, the grandson of the founder. Dr. Hu spent 20 years of his training time with Chan Yiu-Chi and became one of the four major pillar instructors of the school who had gained the name the “Four Great Heavenly Kings 四大天王” of Choy Li Fut in Guangzhou. Grandmaster Doc-Fai Wong 黄德輝 is the successor of Dr. Hu Yuen Chou (Woo Van Cheuk) 胡雲綽. From this lineage we got the name King Mui 京梅, because the founder’s family came from the King Mui village.

Grandmaster Doc-Fai Wong’s third teacher in Choy Li Fut 蔡李佛 was Wong Gong 黄江. Wong Gong’s two teachers were Chan Cheong-Mo 陳長毛 and Chan Yan 陳恩; they were the students of Choy Li Fut founder’s elderly son, Chan On-Pak 陳安伯. From this lineage, we received most of the internal forms and animal forms that were handed down from Chan On-Pak. Great-grandmaster Wong Gong named his lineage Kong Chow 岡州 (Gangzhou) because in the old days, the district of Choy Li Fut’s hometown was called Kong Chow before the Republic of China. Now Jiangmen is the name of the city, therefore the lineage name has been changed to The Jiangmen branch or lineage.



Not saying one person is more correct than the other, I love learn about other histories..just sharing my knowledge as well.
All Choy Li Fut people are martial brothers and sisters regardless of "lineage"

[DaiSihingPerez]

By any chance would you know where to purchase Twin Tiger head shields?

[hskwarrior]

In 1867, Chan Heung 陳享 sent one of his next batch of student, Jeong Yim 張炎 to Fut San 佛山 (Foshan) to take over the school originally established by Chan Din-Foon 陳典桓 in 1848. Eventually, Jeong Yim became known as the "father of the Hung Sing School of Choy Li Fut" in Fut San.

100 percent not correct.

I have spent more than 20 years researching the history of CLF. It's up to you to believe what Doc Fai Wong writes down. But it doesn't mean it's the truth.

Cheung Hung Sing began teaching his gung fu in fut san in 1849-1851 on an underground level as he was designated to teach an army of fighters for the up and coming tai ping rebellion. He was a general of the Tai Ping Army. He officially established THE FIRST Great Victory School (洪勝舘: Hung Sing Kwoon ) in Fut San. Next is, Chan Din Foon didn't go blind until 1875. From 1867 - 1875 (7 years) Cheung Hung Sing re-opened his own school that was formerly known as 佛山洪勝舘 Fut San Hung Victory School (pronounced as Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon). Except this time, he changed the schools name to " Fut San Great Victory School" 佛山鴻勝舘. So, there's absolutely no way he was sent there by Chan Heung to become Chan Din Foon's successor."ALLEGEDLY" Until Chan Din Foon went blind in 1875, his schools name was "Great Saint School" 洪聖舘. This name is also pronounced as Hung Sing or Hung Shing. But you can clearly see that Cheung Yim's 洪勝/鴻勝 Hung Sing name is definitely NOT THE SAME as Chan Din Foon's 洪聖 Hung Shing or Great Saint name. He may have taken over the physical location of where Chan Din Foon may have (no proof yet) taught. But if he was chan din foon's successor he would not have changed the schools name and replaced it with his own. So that put to rest this idea that he succeded Chan Din Foon's Great Saint School.

[hskwarrior]

Chan Heung's followers adopted two words of the motto as their secret passwords “Hung Sing 洪勝” which meant "Hung Party wins." But, because that was too close to the outlawed Hung Moon Party name, they changed it to another slogan which sounds the same as Hung Sing 鴻勝, but means "goose winning."

The above is basically an acknowledgement that Cheung Hung Sing (who was a follower of Chan Heung) used the "洪勝" (Great Victory) name prior to changing it in 1867 when Cheung Hung Sing returned to Fut San to "Re-open" the "洪勝舘" (Great Victory School) he closed down in 1864. The new name he used (鴻勝) also meant "Great Victory" because "鴻" (Great) is one of the only acceptable "****nyms" for "洪" (Great).


To clarify the issue, Chan Heung's son, Koon-Pak 官伯, changed the name Hung 鴻 Sing to a different Hung 雄 meaning "strong." From that time on, Choy Li Fut schools in Koon Pak's King Mui area designated themselves with the slogan Hung Sing 雄勝, meaning "Strong Winning," while the Fut San schools kept their "goose winning" Hung Sing 鴻勝 motto.

The REAL question is, "WHY WAS CHAN HEUNG'S SON USING A NAME (鴻勝) BELONGING TO CHEUNG HUNG SING AND NOT "Great Sage" (洪聖) LIKE THAT OF HIS OWN FATHER? CHAN HEUNG'S "SING" MEANS SAGE (聖) AND IS NOWHERE EVEN CLOSE TO CHEUNG HUNG SING'S "SING" WORD "VICTORY" (勝)?. WAS HE A STUDENT OF CHEUNG HUNG SING?

Keep up the study on history.

[hskwarrior]

In 1867, Chan Heung 陳享 sent one of his next (LAST) batch of students, Jeong Yim 張炎 to Fut San 佛山 (Foshan) to take over the school originally established by Chan Din-Foon 陳典桓 in 1848.

The above comment suggests that Cheung Hung Sing was part of Chan Heung's final group of students prior to him passing away in 1875. It also suggests that 1867 was the very first time Cheung Hung Sing was in the city of Fut San and that Chan Heung was responsible for sending him there to take over the school originally established by Chan Din-Foon 陳典桓.

NOTHING CAN BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. Here's why. Sixteen years prior to 1867 Cheung Hung Sing was sent to Fut San in 1849 by Monk Ching Cho (Green Grass Monk). In the Chan Heung records it doesn't say Cheung Hung Sing's only purpose in Fut San was to take over for Chan Din Foon. What it says it Cheung Hung Sing "returned" (meaning he'd already had a school open in Fut San) to "re-open" his Hung Sing Kwoon in 1867. None of the King Mui lineages have an explanation to the discrepancy between 1851 when Cheung Hung Sing is recorded to have first opened his "Hung Victory" school and the misinformation of the year 1867 as some articles are suggesting.

Furthermore in debunking the 1867 theory stemming from the King Mui lineages, there are Chan Heung related sources that claim Cheung Hung Sing was with Chan Heung in 1856 when a local King Mui tyrant name Zhou Huan challenged Cheung Hung Sing to a ring match. In this story Chan Heung allegedly instructs Cheung Hung Sing to use the Lightning Cutting Palm technique to defeat Zhou Huan. This places Cheung Hung Sing with Chan Heung 11 years prior to the 1867 date, disproving that theory. Additionally, some writings claim Cheung Hung Sing asked Chan Heung for permission to open a school in Kong Mun while using Chan Heung's Great Sage school name between 1851-1856.

Therefore I am encouraging the new generation of Choy Lee Fut students to keep their eyes open for these historical inaccuracies and to ask questions in order to get clear and precise answers. Choy Lee Fut which includes Chan Fam, Fut San Hung Sing, and Buk Sing lineages - has a deep rich history. We owe it to ourselves and our elders to dig for the truth and to disregard the lies and misinformation that is taking place here in 2015.

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDk4T61UQ3g

[hskwarrior]

9580
................

[hskwarrior]

9592
.........................

[hskwarrior]

9593
..............................

[hskwarrior]

9647
......................................

[hskwarrior]

ttt..........

[hskwarrior]

97509750975197529753
.................

[hskwarrior]

97549755975697579758.......................

[hskwarrior]

9787......................

[hskwarrior]

据香港陈享公纪念总会记载：“同治三年（公元一八六四年）……六月十五日，曾国藩、国荃昆仲破南京，追捕余 党。张炎星夜乘舟抵京梅乡，享公与联袂抵港，寓乡亲陈典堂所营于香港西环之金山庄，曾受美洲三藩市陈氏联宗 会聘赴彼邦传技，临别，嘱张炎以插槌之‘噫’、虎爪之‘或’、出脚之‘嘀’为暗号，盖为避虎伥 也。

Cheung Hung Sing took a boat at night to Ging Mui and possibly went together (with Chan Heung) to Hong Kong. This is where they met Chan Dian Tong (Possibly from San Francisco) in Hong Kong. Chan Heung allegedly teaches Chan Dian Tong - the rep from the chan association - Choy Lee Fut and also taught him the secret code words. 噫 (Yick) was used when executing a Chop Choy strike. 或 (Wah) was used when executing a Tiger Claw and 嘀 (Tick) was used when kicking. These sounds were originated via the sounds Cheung Hung Sing made when performing.

[hskwarrior]

鸿胜馆广东佛山鸿胜武馆,建立于咸丰六年〈公元一八五六年) ,始创人是张炎。张炎,广东新会石咀人氏,是蔡李佛拳派始创人陈享的及门弟子之一。一八四五年原在佛山设有 蔡李佛分馆,由陈典桓主持,后因他双目失明改由张炎接替,更名为"鸿胜馆"。该馆自 . 1845 original Choy Lee has branches in Foshan, chaired by Dian Chen Huan, due to his blindness changed over by Zhang Yan, renamed "Hongsheng Museum." Since the museum.

In the past and currently in the present certain factions of Choy Lee Fut have tried to claim Chan Heung sent him to Fut San in 1867 to take over the school by Chan Din Yuen because the latter allegedly went blind. in a Chinese book called 粤海武林春秋 (Guangdong martial arts history) written in 1982 it states that it was actually in 1845 (in or around) that chan din yuen went blind and NOT 1867 like those factions keeps trying to promote.

[hskwarrior]

9957



This is a short summary on why this picture exists: In Fut San before the liberation there were two opposing martial art factions. On one side you had the Hung Sing Kwoon and Chan Sing’s Lo Chung Lion Dance club along with Yuè ān shè, xié lián shè, yuǎn lián shè děng, yě chēng wèi shè zì pài. On the other side you have the rival factions of Xingyi (兴义), Qun Yi (群义) , Yong justice (勇义), loyalty (忠义), the British justice (英义) ie The british guy...... , Jiu Yi Mo Kwoon (聚义武馆) merged together to form the “All Righteousness Society” and formed the Lion Dance Club called Zhāo Jìng (Hòu hébìng wèi “zhòng yì”) hé wàiwéi shī huì “zhāo jìng”). These two factions have been fiercely fighting for decades since the Qing Dynasty. Their disputes were not mere factionalism, but a battle between two progressive forces.
Fut San was a industrial center for art and handicrafts but closed down after the Opium War because of massive unemployment and were impacted by foreign goods. Because of political changes, inflation, and the threat of warlords made the peoples lives more difficult. On the other hand, the capitalists were reaping the rewards by colluding with the reactionary trade unions and the triad. The federation of trade unions in Guangzhou at the time were controlled by the Loyalty and Righteousness Martial Arts school who were used to oppress the workers. All of the people who wanted to stand against the oppression joined the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon or the Lo Chung Lion Dance group to learn self defense. The battles between these two factions were getting increasingly fierce.

[hskwarrior]

This picture came from a Japanese monastery or temple and was owned by a Japanese Military person. Circa is 1900. Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon often went to fight in the revolutions in the north like in the Boxer Rebellion. On the left is believed very strongly to be Chan Ngau Sing, first successor of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

9958

[mickey]

This picture came from a Japanese monastery or temple and was owned by a Japanese Military person. Circa is 1900. Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon often went to fight in the revolutions in the north like in the Boxer Rebellion. On the left is believed very strongly to be Chan Ngau Sing, first successor of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon. 9958

Greetings hskwarrior,

I believe with absolute certainty. I was taking a stroll through the site of Master Dave Lacey and I noticed the photo where he was presented with a painting of Chan Ngau Sing. I immediately thought, "That's the guy freezing in the cold!" Unless the student used that photo as a reference (you can check on that to be sure), that painting very much confirms it for me.

Take a look (scroll down a little):

http://povfilms.tumblr.com/post/16915231071/master-dave-lacey


mickey

[hskwarrior]

Greetings hskwarrior,

I believe with absolute certainty. I was taking a stroll through the site of Master Dave Lacey and I noticed the photo where he was presented with a painting of Chan Ngau Sing. I immediately thought, "That's the guy freezing in the cold!" Unless the student used that photo as a reference (you can check on that to be sure), that painting very much confirms it for me.

Take a look (scroll down a little):

http://povfilms.tumblr.com/post/1691...ter-dave-lacey

yes sir. I never saw that painting till you mentioned. good catch bro

[hskwarrior]

..................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqhdonxQpI0

[hskwarrior]

蔡李佛是我國傳統武術流派之一，由新會崖門鎮京梅村人陳享所創，陳享年輕時曾先後拜少林青草和尚蔡福、至善 大師門徒李友山和“獨杖禪師”陳遠護為師，學成後去蕪 ...

The above claims Chan Heung was a student of the Green Grass Monk. This is completely false. however, it also says Green Grass Monk is also Monk Choy Fook. This is a huge and unfortunate, but deliberate LIE. The Green Grass Monk is NOT monk Choy Fook. My book will detail the true identity at length.

[hskwarrior]

9984
.................

[hskwarrior]

99859986
..................

[Jimbo]

Great images. Thanks for sharing, Frank!

[Thomas316]

Frank, when will the book be released? Will the book be primarily about applications?

[hskwarrior]

Jimbo, thank you


thomas, i'm in the last stages of it's completion. It's consists first the history of the Green Grass Monk, Cheung Hung Sing, Yuen Hai, Lau Bun, Jew Leong and my sifu. A few break downs of the Hung Sing same, pad work drills, a few applications and more. it's over 10 chapters right now and over 150 pages.

[Jimbo]

Frank, are there any photos of Kenneth Wong, who embarrassed Bruce Lee at the Sun Sing theater by cleanly blocking all three of BL's blows during one of the latter's famous 'speed demonstrations'?

And I'm looking forward to your book as well.

[hskwarrior]

I'll check with my sifu. Kenneth wong was not a well liked guy because he was one brutal mo fo. he enjoyed hurting people and was good with his gung fu. my sifu regularly talks about him. i wish there was video of him embarrassing bruce. but there were many witnesses to it.

my sigung was ****ed that kenneth didn't strike bruce tho. haha

[Jimbo]

Lol, yeah, it's too bad that didn't happen. If they had fought then and there, there's a good chance that Bruce Lee's legend would have gone down much differently in the books, especially with so many witnesses present. From the account I read, it sounded like BL had a bad feeling about it and (probably wisely for him) backed off, leaving with a passive-aggressive statement to the crowd: "You can always find me at my school."

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB_vinw1SXI...............................

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3qb0w0dC6k&feature=youtu.be
.........................

[hskwarrior]

10091
........................................

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh03D1Umb_g

[hskwarrior]

.........10167

[hskwarrior]

Info about Monk Ching Cho. "ching cho monk. When the temple was built in bat pai san he became a monk at age 56 under the monk heng yan whom was the head instructor of the 36 chambers of shaolin"

10169

[Jimbo]

.........10167

Thanks for posting that, Frank.

I remember reading a book (was it DFW's?) that said the 'Fut' (Buddha) part of CLF was added to the name to pay homage to the art's Buddhist roots, but it made no mention of a Fut Gar connection. Which IMO always seemed a bit odd. Your info absolutely makes sense.

BTW, I'm still looking forward to your book! :) The world needs a really good book on CLF.

[hskwarrior]

Thanks for posting that, Frank.

I remember reading a book (was it DFW's?) that said the 'Fut' (Buddha) part of CLF was added to the name to pay homage to the art's Buddhist roots, but it made no mention of a Fut Gar connection. Which IMO always seemed a bit odd. Your info absolutely makes sense.

BTW, I'm still looking forward to your book! The world needs a really good book on CLF.

Thanks bro.

Until a recently, For Chan family CLF it was always Choy & Lee with Fut meaning buddha. For Cheung Hung Sing's lineage we have Choy, Lee, and Fut Gar Kuen. IMO, CLF wants to remain relevant so they adopted our Fut Gar meaning on Fut. i've also noticed chan heung schools changing their style name from CLF to Hung Sing CLF. Chan Heung didn't create Hung Sing CLF. Cheung Hung Sing created Hung Sing CLF.

When i post things on the Green Grass Monk, it's to demonstrate that Cheung Hung Sings lineage did not concoct the Green Grass Monk to elevate ourselves. we have always just told our own story the way we know it.

my book had to be put on hold for the moment in order for me to navigate through this mess i'm going through right now

[Jimbo]

Thanks, Frank.

Well, I hope everything resolves itself for the best. Whenever you're able to get around to the book is all good. I'll buy one whenever it becomes available, regardless.

[CLFNole]

Personally I think when the term "Fut Gar" is used with regard to CLF it really is referring to "Buddhist Family" and not necessarily the style "Fut Gar". Same goes with Choy - from Choy Fook. People use "Choy Gar" but I think they are just paying homage to Choy Fook using it in that way and again not necessarily the style "Choy Gar".

For me the "fut" refers to Buddhist roots and thus the connection to Siu Lum Gee.

Just my 2 cents.

[hskwarrior]

right, your roots are more chan heung than Cheung Hung Sing. from that side it's always been said the FUT in choy lee fut was intended to honor the buddhist roots (not the style of Fut Gar). As far back as i can remember, Cheung Yim's lineage claims we put the FUT in choy lee fut (meaning the fut gar). Choy Lee Fut's usaged of "Fut Gar" is a recent issue claiming it came from chan yuen wu. However, many chan fam people have documented he (chan yuen wu) taught "Hung Kuen" later the claim was it was "Fut Gar" now it is called "Hung Fut".

Hung Kuen Mention: "At the age of seven, his uncle, Chan Yuen Woo, taught him in the art of the Hung Fist."

Fut Gar mention: "and his uncle Chan Yuen-Woo 陳遠護who taught him Fut Gar"

Hung Fut Mention: 陈远护乃少林俗家弟子，骠师出身，曾师从广东肇庆鼎湖山庆云寺的“独杖禅师”，为“洪佛拳”高 手，

[hskwarrior]

佛山鸿胜祖馆第三代传人何义
作者： 来源： 发布时间：2016年02月01日 点击数： 60

　　何义，（1900—1976）南海狮山人，为人正直，少年时代即拜鸿胜祖馆二传黄四（1868—194 8）为师，学习鸿胜祖馆的蔡李佛拳械，对师傅黄四，生养死葬，（因黄四终生无结婚）极尽弟子之礼 。
我很小的时候，就听老一辈的人说，黄四师公拳脚十分了得，特别是他的软硬佛掌、腿脚功夫，与人过招，从无对 手；棍法造诣也很深，佛山一带的泥墙屋，墙厚坚实，黄四演练棍法时，一招四平枪棍，棍嘴能插进泥墙里，放开 双手，插在墙上的棍还震颤不停。黄四师公跌打医术十分精湛，我母亲幼年时曾跌仆，双手骨折，是黄四师公帮她 治好的，此后几十年从未复发过。何义师傅是黄四师公的首徒，能尊师重道，勤学苦练，所以，武术和跌打伤科， 尽得真传。
　　黄四仙逝后，每年清明，何义师傅必与师弟霍康一起，前往石湾鸿胜馆的墓地拜祭师傅黄四以及鸿胜馆的先贤 ，小儿子何锦华稍懂事，即携其一同前往拜祭，直到文化大革命，造反派破四旧把墓地摧毁才只好作罢。并终其一 生，不遗余力教授鸿胜蔡李佛拳械，所授弟子无数，深得同辈和后人称颂。
　　何义师傅从十九岁开始任助教，协助师公黄四教授鸿胜蔡李佛拳术。二十世纪初，师公黄四的师兄陈盛主持鸿 胜祖馆，与当时追随官府的义字派拳馆势不两立，鸿胜馆的狮队与义字派的狮队每逢佛山有甚么神宫诞，秋色，或 元旦、春节巡游，两派狮队相遇，必定打得不亦乐乎。上世纪二十年代初，有个时期，陈盛认为醒狮队惹事，在鸿 胜馆所有分馆暂停醒狮活动，停止教授醒狮。师公黄四则认为武馆不能没有醒狮，于是在石角栅下成立了螺涌社， 黄四牵头，以徒弟何义、霍康为骨干，既教授武术又大力发展醒狮队。（当时叫鸿胜馆外围狮队）时间不长，祖馆 又恢复了醒狮队的活动，使鸿胜馆的传统醒狮得以延续和发展。
　　上世纪二三十年代，何义师傅除了帮助师公黄四教授弟子外，还在佛山三圣宫、惺台宫、烈圣宫即螺涌社任主 教练，门下弟子众多。一九二七年四月十二日，国民党在上海杀害共产党人，发动反革命政变，四月十五日，国民 党当局即来查封佛山工代会、农协会、鸿胜祖馆和各个分馆，何义师傅被迫停止活动，回乡下南海狮山大涡塘继续 教授蔡李佛拳械，后又应南海大榄村的邀请，到该村任教，弟子有九十人。至一九三七年卢沟桥事变后才回佛山公 开复馆招收徒弟。一九三八年十月，广州、佛山相继沦陷，在那个兵荒马乱的时期，何义师傅又应陈盛的徒弟绰号 皮蛋面（因师傅没说他的真名）的邀请，到香港帮教蔡李佛拳术，直至太平洋战争爆发。有个时期，崔章师傅在广 州开了几家拳馆，一个人忙不过来，于是邀请何义师傅到广州帮教，与崔章师傅结下很深的友谊。
　　当局后来查封佛山工代会、农协会、鸿胜祖馆和各个分馆，何义师傅被迫停止活动，回乡下南海狮山大涡塘继 续教授蔡李佛拳械，后又应南海大榄村的邀请，到该村任教，弟子有九十人。至一九三七年卢沟桥事变后才回佛山 公开复馆招收徒弟。一九三八年十月，广州、佛山相继沦陷，在那个兵荒马乱的时期，何义师傅又应陈盛的徒弟绰 号皮蛋面（因师傅没说他的真名）的邀请，到香港帮教蔡李佛拳术，直至太平洋战争爆发。有个时期，崔章师傅在 广州开了几家拳馆，一个人忙不过来，于是邀请何义师傅到广州帮教，与崔章师傅结下很深的友谊。
　　师傅教授我们拳术时，非常严格，一招一式都很认真，已教的招式练不好，就不教新的，现在我还清楚记得， 师傅已年近古稀，穿着上世纪六十年代的硬底塑料凉鞋，滑溜溜的，但走马标马却十分稳固，出手快速有力。师傅 的软鞭也十分了得，夏天，师傅喜欢光着上身，肩头搭条高丽巾，有一次，师傅演练软鞭给我们几个师兄弟看，只 见他挥动手中的高丽巾“啪啪”两声，高丽巾瞬间在吴伯泉耳旁两边飞过，吓得吴伯泉紧闭双目。师傅还把馆传十 诫文口授给我们，并详细解释其中的含义，师傅口授的十诫文是：“一、得师，二、苦练，三、当头手不善，四、 节色，五、补食，六、六步雄推标打力，七、长气，八、发响，九、久敌棋逢手不让，十、日久多磨推不动。”师 傅还教导我们：学武术首先要学武德，要尊敬师长，师兄弟之间要互相帮助，待人接物要礼貌，针对我们几个徒弟 年轻气盛，特别强调不许打架惹事生非，如果谁在外面打架了，就不认谁做徒弟，所以我们几个同辈师兄弟，都能 遵循师傅教导，到现在几十年了，从来没有在社会上惹事打架。
　　何义师傅不单武术底子深厚、全面，而且跌打医术也十分精湛，医德高尚，我们跟随师傅学艺时就多次看见很 多伤病患者上门求医，师傅问了发病原因，察看伤势后即口授处方，患者记下，或汤剂，或洗方、敷方，让其到药 店自行配药，师傅分文不取，求医者无不交口赞誉。我们几个顽徒，师傅也传授强身健体的单方给我们，令我们终 生受益。
　　何义师傅所传授的弟子，都是鸿胜祖馆里的骨干，都以传承和发扬鸿胜蔡李佛拳术为己任。
　　值此鸿胜祖馆一百六十周年庆典之际，写此拙文，作为对何义师傅的纪念。

佛山鸿胜祖馆　黄镇江
2011年8月28日

[hskwarrior]

Until NOW, there seemed to have been a identity mishaps in regards to the person known as Tong Sek of Choy Lee Fut. the photo below effectively clears up any confusion to whom Tong Sek was. Doc Fai Wong's Tong Sek is found in the picture on the left, not the right


10309

[hskwarrior]

10310
.....................................

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD6b5KKSZTs
......................................

[hskwarrior]

10351
.................................................. ...............

[hskwarrior]

10513
...................................

[hskwarrior]

10514
.....................................

[hskwarrior]

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDMzMTM2NDY0.html?spm=a2h0k.8191407.0.0&from=s1.8-1-1.2

[hskwarrior]

10516
....................

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc8NwqBjhZg
................

[hskwarrior]

Rule: A disciple setting up a martial arts hall may not be named after his or her own name.

In 1849, Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut founder Cheung Hung Sing was ordered to go to the city of Fut San to establish a kung fu school to aid the Tai Ping Rebellion by the infamous Monk Ching Cho (Green Grass Monk). Contrary to popular belief, Chan Heung did not send Cheung Hung Sing to Fut San to open a school for Choy Lee Fut. If this was indeed the case, then Cheung Hung Sing would have obeyed the rule.

In 1851 Cheung Hung Sing officially established his Hung Sing Kwoon 洪勝館in the City of Fut San using the name given to him by his teacher Monk Ching Cho. Available records indicate it was established in synchronicity with the Tai Ping Rebellion which coincides with the true reason Cheung Hung Sing was in Fut San at that time.

In the case of the name of his school, the Choy Lee Fut rule did not apply to Cheung Hung Sing because he wasn't in Fut San representing the Choy Lee Fut system. He was in fact representing Monk Ching Cho and the Hung Mun secret society. According to documentation, Cheung Hung Sing did not rre-emerge in the Choy Lee Fut realm until 1867 after reuniting with Chan Heung in Hong Kong during the years of 1864-1867.

In 1875, one of Chan Heung's students who had a Choy Lee Fut school in Fut San as well went blind. According to some writing, Chan Heung chose Cheung Hung Sing to take over the school. In some instances the story was Cheung Hung Sing was the successor of that school. This was an incorrect statement. The reason being is if it were true, Cheung Hung Sing should have maintained the name of the blind guys school as the successor. Instead, Cheung Hung Sing removed the blind guys school name and replaced it with his own Hung Sing Kwoon, ending the history of the blind guys legacy.

To conclude, the Choy Lee Fut rule above did not relate to Cheung Hung Sing in any way, therefore, not applying to HIM.

[hskwarrior]

Below is something that was published a few days ago and it's completely FALSE, MISLEADING, and WRONG. BS is the word i'm really looking for.


還記得電影《葉問》里當葉問打敗來紗廠滋事的金山找之後，紗廠老闆周清泉讓自己的兒子跟隨葉問學習詠春拳的 橋段嗎？陳享也做了一回這個橋段的主角。當陳享擊敗基利士之後，當時的很多華人富商都將自己的孩子送到陳享 門下學習蔡李佛拳，其中成就最高的是張炎。張炎對於蔡李佛拳表現出異乎尋常的熱愛，從那時候起，無論陳享身 在何地，他都緊緊跟隨。後來，陳享創立了新的武館——「鴻勝館」，張炎順便也把自己的名字改成 了張鴻勝。

Translation:
I still remember that in the movie "Ip Man", when Ye asked to defeat Jinshan, who was in trouble with the yarn factory, the mill owner Zhou Qingquan asked his son to follow Ye Wen to learn the bridge of Wing Chun. Chen Xiang also made a protagonist of this bridge. When Chen Xiang defeated Kilis, many Chinese wealthy businessmen at that time sent their children to Chen Xiangmen to study Cai Li's fist. The most successful one was Zhang Yan. Zhang Yan showed an extraordinary love for Cai Li's fist. From then on, no matter where Chen Xiang was, he followed closely. Later, Chen Xiang created a new martial arts hall - "Hongsheng Pavilion", and Zhang Yanshun changed his name to Zhang Hongsheng.

the underlined is BS....plain and simple LIES

[hskwarrior]

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fssports.gov.cn%2Ftyxw%2F 07%2F201807%2Ft20180704_7146813.html&h=AT1w77LcYf2NMcA_-uYhtWt9CIioeuDzrw5Ub35n1goF_M6w2UyEQjcbKB87MDqIjkN YelgtPCg6mR617qhp0Yr5reBjwGVJvx4pYn9aJHK7gts-5-zHXthCPUrBAAmCwSCCaJtRzEMynJiK

10550

[GeneChing]

Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon sets world record for having 1,191 kids practicing CLF

I'm copying this off our Cheung Hung Sing: Founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?68260-Cheung-Hung-Sing-Founder-of-Hung-Sing-Choy-Lee-Fut-Kung-Fu&p=1309238#post1309238) and adding it to our Martial Arts World Records and Stunts (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?52601-Martial-Arts-World-Records-and-Stunts) thread. :cool:


成功创造世界纪录！1191佛山娃齐打蔡李佛拳 (http://www.fssports.gov.cn/tyxw/07/201807/t20180704_7146813.html)
发表日期：2018-07-04 09:54 文章来源：佛山日报分享至:
　　
http://www.fssports.gov.cn/tyxw/07/201807/W020180704361235562299.jpg
1191名幼儿演练蔡李佛拳法，成功创造“世界上最多幼儿集体演练传统蔡李佛拳法”世界纪录。

　　6月30日，由佛山真武馆、佛山市童星教育集团联合举办的“世界上最多幼儿集体演练传统蔡李佛拳法”世 界纪录挑战活动在南风古灶举行。现场1191名幼儿齐打蔡李佛拳，得到世界纪录协会的官方认证，成功创造世 界纪录。

　　当日10时，尽管天气非常炎热，孩子们依然精神抖擞。1191名幼儿在老师的带领下，出拳踢腿，一招一 式打得有板有眼，精气神十足。据了解，孩子们打的是由佛山真武馆与佛山市童星教育集团编排的“蔡李佛少儿武 术操”。该套武术操既考虑少儿学习演练的需要，又充分保留了蔡李佛拳的特色手法和步型。

　　在1191名幼儿打完“蔡李佛少儿武术操”后，世界纪录协会相关负责人现场宣布“世界上最多幼儿集体演 练传统蔡李佛拳法”世界纪录挑战成功，并向主办方颁发世界纪录证书。

　　佛山真武馆馆长霍泽文表示，希望这次成功挑战世界纪录能在佛山地区乃至全球华人社区产生积极反响，让佛 山优秀传统文化发扬光大，借此擦亮“佛山功夫”名片，让佛山本土特色文化走向世界，为佛山打造“世界功夫之 城”的建设工作贡献一分力量。

（责任编辑：fstyj_zjt）

goog trans

Successfully set a world record! 1191 Foshan Wazi fights Cai Li Buddha
Published date: 2018-07-04 09:54 Source: Foshan Daily shared to:


1191 children practiced Cai Li's fist boxing method and successfully created the world record of "the world's most children's collective exercise traditional Cai Li Buddha boxing method".

On June 30th, the World Record Challenge of the “World's Largest Children's Collective Exercises Traditional Cai Li Buddha Boxing” jointly organized by Foshan Zhenwu Museum and Foshan Tongxing Education Group was held in Nanfeng Guzao. At the scene, 1,191 children were beaten by Cai Li, and they were officially certified by the World Record Association and successfully set a world record.

At 10 o'clock on the same day, the children were still energetic despite the hot weather. Under the leadership of the teacher, 1191 children kicked their fists, and they were able to play with their own eyes and spirits. It is understood that the children are playing the "Cai Li Fo Children's Martial Arts Exercise" compiled by Foshan Zhenwu Museum and Foshan Tongxing Education Group. This set of martial arts exercises not only considers the needs of children's learning exercises, but also fully retains the unique techniques and steps of Cai Li's Buddhist fist.

After 1191 children finished the "Cai Li Fo Children's Wushu Exercises", the relevant person in charge of the World Record Association announced on the scene that "the world's most children's collective exercise traditional Cai Li Buddha boxing" world record challenge was successful, and issued a world record certificate to the organizers.

Huo Zewen, director of the Foshan Zhenwu Museum, expressed the hope that this successful challenge to the world record will have a positive response in the Foshan area and even the global Chinese community, and promote the excellent traditional culture of Foshan, thus polishing the "Foshan Kungfu" business card and let the local characteristics of Foshan go The world has contributed a lot to the construction work of Foshan to create a "world of kung fu."

(Editor: fstyj_zjt)

[hskwarrior]

Hongsheng Pavilion in various revolutionary historical periods


Among the large and small martial arts halls that have appeared in the history of modern China, their members have devoted themselves to the revolutionary cause and made important contributions in various revolutionary historical periods. For fear, there is only one Foshan Hongsheng Pavilion.
On the eve of the 1911 Revolution, Li Su and Qian Weifang, the coaches of the Hongsheng Pavilion, were introduced by the alliance member Wang Hanem to join the alliance. They led a group of backbones of the Hongsheng Pavilion, mobilized a group of handicraft workers and shop assistants in Foshan and Shunde to participate in the bourgeois democratic revolutionary movement led by Sun Yat-sen G Huang Xing and others held the Huanghuagang Uprising in Guangzhou. . In November 1911 , at the mouth of Li, Li Su and other civilian forces led a fierce battle with the Qing troops stationed in Foshan, and they recovered Foshan in one fell swoop.
In January 1922 , the Foshan Group of the Communist Party of China was established. At that time, there were 4 party members, namely Wang Han, Liang Furan, Qian Weifang, and Liang Guihua, of which Qian Weifang and Liang Guihua were members of the Hongsheng Pavilion. Later, Chen Xiongzhi and Wu Qin, the backbone of Hongsheng Pavilion, also joined the Communist Party. Under the leadership of the Communist Party, the Foshan Workers' Movement flourished. In the fall of 1922 , Foshan established the Foshan Union of Trade Unions under the leadership of the Communist Party. Under the leadership of the FTU, workers carried out a series of organized strikes, while the capitalists colluded with the yellow trade unions and the reactionary martial arts ( that is, the loyalty system such as the loyalty and Xingyi martial arts system ) to undermine the workers' movement. In this struggle, most members of the Hongsheng Pavilion joined the Federation of Trade Unions and the later Workers' Congress. Qian Weifang also served as the captain of the picket, Chen Xiongzhi served as the propaganda minister, Tang Xi served as the picket leader of the bamboo trade union, and Chen Yilin served as the The car clothing union picket captain. As the struggle between the Workers' Congress and the reactionary yellow trade unions are related to the relevant martial arts, the struggle between the Hongsheng system known as the "Social Characters" and the meaning system called the "Yizi School" is actually the Communist Party The struggle of the Workers' Congress under the leadership of the reactionary yellow union. In 1924 , Wu Qin formed the Nanpu Agricultural Regiment Army. In 1925 , he established the Fourth District Farmers Association of Nanhai County ( Wu Qin as the chairman ) in Taishang Temple , one of the branches of the Hongsheng Pavilion . Echoes.
In 1927 , Chiang Kai-shek launched a " 12.12 " coup. On April 14 , the reactionary authorities and the reactionary yellow trade unions joined forces to suppress the Workers 'Congress. A group of Communist Party members and the backbone of the Workers' Congress were searched and killed. The revolution turned into a low tide, and Hongsheng Pavilion was also banned from activities. On December 12 , Wu Qin organized a team to cooperate with the Guangzhou Uprising and captured Pujun Ruins. The Guangzhou uprising failed, and Qian Weifang and Wu Qin fled to Hong Kong and Nanyang.
In 1937 , Qian Weifang and Wu Qin returned to Foshan from Hong Kong, presided over the Hongsheng Sports Association's affairs, and led members into the torrent of the War of Resistance. They first set up a coaching class for killing enemies in the Hongsheng Pavilion, and sent some people to teach martial arts in some schools. Second, they organized a protective group, and a group of famous doctors in the Hongsheng Pavilion taught emergency treatment methods. In the meantime, Qian Weifang also held a technical training course, organized a group of members of the Hongsheng Pavilion to set up the Shanzi Village People's Self-Defense Force, and was banned by the Kuomintang authorities. Qian Weifang was forced to flee to Hong Kong. Although Qian Weifang left, Hong Sheng Pavilion, under the leadership of Wu Qin, continued to step up the formation of anti-Japanese armed forces. In October 1938 , on the eve of the fall of Foshan, Wu Qin notified the end of the Hongsheng Sports Club building, and informed more than 200 members of the Hongsheng Museum to Shiji to form an anti-Japanese guerrilla. This team won the second guerrilla detachment in Guangzhou, with Wu Qin as commander. Later, the Guanger guerrillas developed into several people, became the people's anti-Japanese armed forces under the direct leadership of the Communist Party of China, and repeatedly destroyed the Japanese and Puppet Army in Nanfanshun. In May 1942, Wu Qin was killed by Lin Xiaoya, the National Army.
The development history of Hongsheng Pavilion not only occupies an important position in the development history of Foshan martial arts, And the history of the revolutionary struggle in Foshan is also closely linked.

[hskwarrior]

yup.....TTT:D