PHOENIX EYE?

[Castlevania]

I would like to know how phoenix eye works.
I read today that phoenix can be used to damage internally,piercing organs and such...
But what is the scientificical explanation for that? Is it true?
And how can you use it to pierce/poke internal organs if opponent is wearing some(or even heavy)clothing?
I hope you can break my words into pieces.
Thank you.

[Wongsifu]

ugh.

oh well what they mean is you damage the organs internally , in acupuncture there are a series of channels in the body called meridians, these carry chi or energy around the body and they each correspond to an organ thus if you block the flow to the organ you can just damage the organ, one of the easiest ways to hit a pressure point or point along a meridian is by using a phoenix ey fist , which is basically
make a fist
point out your index finger
place your thumb on top of the hole that your middle finger makes
bring back your index finger by curling it so that the space between your joint and index finger and thumb and index finger are touching.

the effect looks like a fist with your index finger betn with power.

the advantage is if you strike with one finger you could hurt it wheareas a phoenix eye is more stable.

you get it .

alternatively you coudl take a metal slab and hit your phoenix eye against it as hard as you can for 20 years , after that if you hit your phoenix eye at someones heart forexample it will break through there rib cageand you can play with their heart, but you will also have the most useless finger thats crippled beyond belief. so dont try that last one.

This is because THC is not an alkaloid. It does not contain a nitrogen atom, therefore it is a terpenophenolic compound

[Crimson Phoenix]

There's no mystery behind the phoenix eye, it's a matter of concentrating the energy of the strike on the smallest surface possible...it is by this mechanism that a stab with a knife can pierce a bullet vest whereas a bullet cannot...

[joy chaudhuri]

Phoenix Eye with some differences is common to several southern fists. Delivery will vary with the stance and footwork of the style. If the styles are learned in depth the phoenix eye will be devloped naturally.

[phoenix-eye]

As you can probably tell I like a bit of phoenix-eye striking.....

Anyway, if you want more info there are two books on the Chuka southern Shaolin style which is based predominantly around PE strikes.

They are:-

"Phoenix eye fist: A shaolin fighting art of south china" by Cheong Cheng Leong and Donn F Draeger.

"The Secrets of Phoenix Eye Fist Kung Fu" by Cheong Cheng Leong and Mark V Wiley.

Both are good but first one is probably better of the two.

Amazon stocks both.

Hope this helps

"We had a thing to settle so I did him"
Tamai, 43, was quoted by Police as saying.

[Ginger Fist]

Phoenix Eye with some differences is common to several southern fists.

--real profound professor. here's an add on that might actually make some sense out of ur p*iss weak comment: the differences are so pronounced as 2 make the phoenix-eye fist unique 2 a given art. for a guy that slops around in wc, the world's finest girlie m.a., u sure comment a lot on southern systems in general :p

Delivery will vary with the stance and footwork of the style.

--wowser, really joy, i mean, like really? dude, ? don't u just stick (like in chi sau) 2 ? little (as in little idea for a very little system) u know :D ur attempts at profundity, just like ur k.f., suck :p

If the styles are learned in depth the phoenix eye will be devloped naturally.

--still more pseudo-expert crap from u :eek: judging from ur pictures in the recent wc girlie m.a. article ? u've learned in depth is where every all u can eat place is located in ur area :p here's ur clue fat boy--train more, talk less and if u r going to talk, don't talk with ur mouth full. from the looks of ur 3 chins and fat slob gut not talking with ur mouth full will insure ur silence 4 many yrs ;)

[Castlevania]

Thanks a lot,that was quick!
I already know how to form a phoenix eye and like it quite much,I just though that you would strike directly to the organs,dumb me! :D

[Ginger Fist]

I already know how to form a phoenix eye and like it quite much,I just though that you would strike directly to the organs,dumb me!

--not dumb at all dude. if u forge ur phoenix-eye fist correctly u can strike any part of the body directly. pulverize a dime size area of the skull ... split muscles all 2 he*ll ;) the sh*it4brains that ruined his hands chasing the phoenix-eye first was doing it wrong :p my grandmom's phoenix-eye fist is superb, i've seen her strike a sweat, clean hole thru a spanish roof tile set on its end unsupported. grandmom did that little gig just last yr when she was a spry 85 ... today she's even better :) grandmom also plays some mean classical jazz on the piano :D nothing wrong with her fingers ... just flawlessly forged weapons ;)

[joy chaudhuri]

The list is not a place for personal jabs.
Your post does not deserve a reply.

[Ginger Fist]

The list is not a place for personal jabs.

--then put something complete & real on the table or shut up :p

Your post does not deserve a reply.

--then ? did u reply, fat boy? :p

[Colin]

Yeun fen,
I've had a look around your web site & was very impressed, by your training, your group and your lineage.
I often wonder why these silly little boys such as "ginger fister" constantly have digs at others such as yourselves, and it does seem that this is primararily due to one basic fundemental root cause, ie. inadequately developed penial tissue!
So yes it seems once again the the world has got to listen to the inane rantings of a boy in a mans body!

So come on Ginger Spice, after 22 years! studying SPM you should have learnt some humility and respect for others.
I do hope that you don't teach a class of your own, because it saddens me to think that some innocent students are having their minds filled with the crap that spills from your ever flapping orifice.

CT.........

[NafAnal]

Hey who do u learn xingyi with crawling?

and whereabouts do you learn it?

[This message was edited by NafAnal on 11-26-01 at 09:41 AM.]

[Ginger Fist]

Yeun fen,
I've had a look around your web site & was very impressed, by your training, your group and your lineage.

--i'm sure, video is all u have, maybe a book or 2 :p it's yuan fen u fuc*king brain dead sh*it :D
u don't understand ? it means so don't bother straining ur as*s to figure it out :D just get it right, okay? ;)

I often wonder why these silly little boys such as "ginger fister" constantly have digs at others such as yourselves,

--2 keep silly little girlie boys such as u from being misinformed ;) it is a public service, & u r welcome :D :D :D

and it does seem that this is primararily due to one basic fundemental root cause, ie. inadequately developed penial tissue!

--that's not ? ur mommy said :p

So yes it seems once again the the world has got to listen to the inane rantings of a boy in a mans body!

--gives u a hard on does it sissy boy? :p u know, about being a man inside a boys body? :eek: maybe u should take ur bullsh*it to some gay site, i'm sure u know where they all are :p

So come on Ginger Spice, after 22 years! studying SPM you should have learnt some humility and respect for others.

--i train in fighting art, u train 2 squat 2 pee :p joy knows i'm right, he intentionally put out incomplete thoughts. not bad 4 1 on 1 discussion, causes a response based on careful thought, an exchange. really screws up newbies, promotes confusion.

I do hope that you don't teach a class of your own,

--mom has allowed me 2 teach a couple of friends. might have 2 wait until grandmother crosses over be4 the ban on teaching gweilo shi*tsacks like u is lifted :D

because it saddens me ...

--then u will just have 2 wallow in ur tears, sissy boy :D

to think that some innocent students are having their minds filled with the crap that spills from your ever flapping orifice.

--u might b right, my orifice flapped and u, crawling turd, spilled out :p

[Black Jack]

I am not a big fan of it as I think the phoneix eye is one of those "low percentage" tools that take's a lot of extra-work to become skilled enough with to pull off in a stressfull combat situation without increasing your chances of getting nailed.

Other than that I think it can have some serious potential with certain target zones if the fighter puts in the training time and study.

Southern gung fu systems seem to use it a lot, and I know the Bando Python subset has a verison of it as well, so it must have some real merit but the question is what has a better percentage of not failing?

Phoniex eye or a bread and butter open or closed fistic strike????

Regards

[iamaloser]

If you're curious how it looks on film, Gordon Liu uses it in "Return of the Master Killer" after he's learned Rooftop Kung Fu. In Jade Claw (a.k.a. Crystal Fist), Billy Chong counters a killer using the Phoenix Eye fist. Now Phoenix Eye Fist isn't announced in most cases but the strikes and fist formation themselves are the same. I know movies shouldn't be taken seriously, but they give you a glimpse as to what the style is.

[KC Elbows]

The difficulty in making the phoenix eye fist is low. In my experience, it is not at all difficult to get to the point where you can use it in a fight, and it works well in some situations/techniques where a regular closed fist is inferior. Anyways, that's what kung fu is based on, making techniques that appear difficult to be easy.

[Ginger Fist]

I am not a big fan of it as I think the phoneix eye is one of those "low percentage" tools

--? do u mean low percentage?

that take's a lot of extra-work to become skilled enough with to pull off in a stressfull combat situation without increasing your chances of getting nailed.

--same could b said about any hand formation. ? do u c about phoenix-eye fist that increases ur chances of getting hit? 1 translation: kung fu, the works & accomplishments of man. unstated emphasis is hard work over much time.

Other than that I think it can have some serious potential with certain target zones if the fighter puts in the training time and study.

--same could b said for any style, technique, ...
correctly forged, phoenix-eye fist can b used against any target. small surface area = large force at impact point.

Southern gung fu systems seem to use it a lot, ...

--& southern hands have an excellent record in combat.

but the question is what has a better percentage of not failing?

--that which u correctly train over time will not fail, that which u don't correctly train or invest the proper amount of time in is suspect.

Phoniex eye or a bread and butter open or closed fistic strike????

--ur bread & butter is choosen & created by u. part of tcma is 2 become that which u will, not settle for less because it is more convenient at this time. will controls mind, mind controls body. swap out spirit 4 will if the word bothers u.

[honorisc]

Theoretically, the piercing internal organs talk is not literal, but a so to speak for channeling chi or energy or force like the brick break in "Bloodsport."--hitting the surface but causing the force to travel as far as you decide and rupture or occure at a point of your choosing.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[Black Jack]

Where would a phoniex eye fist be used where a fist could not be used????????

Ginger Fist:

A "low percentage" techinque in my description is any fighting concept, philiosophy, or techinque which lowers one's percentages of coming out of a real life combat situation when compared to another techinque which requires much less complexity, focus and fine motor skills use.

Spinning anything, high kick anything, bizzare hand formation anything, funky stance anything, whatever in a real life situation would lower your percentages of success due to the fact that these techniques will not be performed in a stale kwoon enviroment but in a chaotic, everchanging and dangerous module with real and aggressive attackers, multiple attackers who could be armed with weapons, and different pyschological viewpoints of when enough is enough.

An example of a high percentage technique:

1. Chin Jab-upward palm strike to chin. A gross motor skill which almost anyone in any physical condition can perform right off the bat without years of martial hand conditioning and pressure point study.

An example of a low percentage technique when viewed in the same context:

1. Phoniex Eye-Needs a lot of extra training over above technique, is not good out of the box because of needed hand conditioning, much less realistic training input as it is a fine motor skill and the training is based on vital point study which does not lead to good sparring and resistance habits in the kwoon.

The old if I hit you here you would do this type of a thing. Where the chinjab can be worked with the right type of of full impact body gera by companies like REDMAN.

So to answer your question, no, not every hand formation can be stated as being the same in needing to become skilled enough to pull it off.

I do agree that correctly forged with time it can have potential but not everyone has the time to keep up the "forging" and even with the needed forging I would place my bets on a lot of other techinques which are based on more simple and direct concepts.

What record in combat does Southern Gung Fu systems have and even more so what record does the Phoniex eye have in these records?

Training is needed with whatever you do but IMO their are some things that can be a waste of time for those just looking at defending themselves in as quick as time as possible.

I prefer simple techniques with a great deal of emphasis on a few elementary methods which can be easily and instinctively used in a fighting situation.

The two guiding principles of brevity and simplicity guide me in my training methods.

But again, the world is big and each to their own.

Regards

[KC Elbows]

I'm just not getting this. Phoenix eye has always, to me, been really easy to do, even in sparring and fighting. However, I have a bad tendency in sparring of having to abandon a phoenix eye to the temple(an integral part of one of my bread and butter techniques), because I don't want to seriously hurt whoever I'm going against.

Again, I don't see the difficulty. Hand positions are easy, its hip movement and footwork and moving as one unit that's hard to apply in combat. Handwise, there is no hand posture I know that gives me any problem in non-static situations, and phoenix eye fist has to be one of the easiest I can think of to apply. Granted, I play guitar and a little piano, so both my hands are very accustomed to subtle movement and muscle control, but still, the hand postures are not the hard part of kung fu, and if you have sublime knowledge of the integral mechanics of a style, you can almost freely change the details such as hand formation, etc, and still be able to use it.

Also, open hand is a very general term. I've seen guys who have such subtle detail in their open hand position that it is more intricate than most people's crane beak, or panther fist or any of the more exotic appearing hand postures. My teacher is, above everything else, a fighter, and he has no problem using the hand postures of our style in combat.

However, that's our style, and we use phoenix eye fist. Other styles stress other things, so again, to each his own.

Nonetheless, anyone who finds phoenix eye hard to do has never practiced it very much, IMHO.

[Black Jack]

Notice I did not state that their was no merit in a phoniex eye strike but that IMHO I think that a system which just focuses on that main hand tool and it's implications is not the way I would want to go.

Even more so when you look at it in the light of what general tools offer a more concrete application with much less room for error.

As for my training in the phoniex eye methods, no they have not been as of extensive as a white crane player but that is not my point anyway, most of my one-knuckle methods have been pushed to the wayside for strikes I feel would work for me under a wide variety of conditions.

Because of my past training I have kept around a number of different martial hand formations, such as the tiger claw, mantis claw, mantis barbs, boars tusks, scorpion pinch, cobra fangs, eagle talon, leopard spear and the python tooth (similar to phoneix eye)because they all have a use to me either martial or in a sense historic, but that is only because of years of past conditioning in a certain system.

Out of those listed I would say only about 4 are ready to go out of the box and the rest would not hurt from a bit of extra conditioning.

IMHO the best techniques are those that require the least conditioning whatsoever and those that can be used in a heavy sparring situation.

Regards