A new wing chun revolution has started in the west

[kung fu fighter]

http://youtu.be/uLg5K-BQMoM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0mhPNAj87w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuFvGPrlVB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuFvGPrlVB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pivZYykhYRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0zGpdsH334
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIMWYf2pnGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfacr_xMqXg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es13X4cIimI

[Bai Chi]

http://youtu.be/uLg5K-BQMoM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0mhPNAj87w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuFvGPrlVB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuFvGPrlVB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pivZYykhYRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0zGpdsH334
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIMWYf2pnGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfacr_xMqXg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es13X4cIimI

Revolution? Seems more like opportunists looking to cash in on poorly trained chunners and poorly trained chunners looking for a magic formula. Buncha yahoos jealous of genuine yip man wing tsun looking to create a name for themselves and carve out a niche in the wing tsun world.

[hunt1]

[QUOTE=Bai Chi;1279236]Revolution? Seems more like opportunists looking to cash in on poorly trained chunners and poorly trained chunners looking for a magic formula.



Very on point Bai Chi.

I doubt that Phil wants a couple minutes of his vast background being used to promote this.

Why don't vid's show the other half of force flow?

[GlennR]

http://youtu.be/uLg5K-BQMoM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0mhPNAj87w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuFvGPrlVB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuFvGPrlVB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pivZYykhYRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0zGpdsH334
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIMWYf2pnGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfacr_xMqXg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es13X4cIimI

Revolution??

Weren't all these guys adhering to it before anyway??

[kung fu fighter]

Very on point Bai Chi. I doubt that Phil wants a couple minutes of his vast background being used to promote this.


First off I don't think Phil is a naive poorly trained wing chun sifu as you've suggested above, I believe he has spent over 40 plus years in the art. I don't think Phil would have travelled to San Jose to learn from Hendrik if he believed there was nothing to learn. I have over 25 years experience in the art of wing chun, I wouldn't have travelled to San Jose to learn from Hendrik if I felt there was nothing there to learn. Phil Romero, Alan Orr, Dave mckinnon, Sergio Iadarola , Jim Roselando, Robert Chu, Delroi Flood and myself are all senior wing chun instructors. Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you visit Robert Chu to learn from him at one point? As a collective there is more than 100 years of wing chun experience are amongst us, clearly there is something to what Hendrik is sharing.


Why don't vid's show the other half of force flow?

Not sure what you mean this??? perhaps you can explain what you are referring to. everything is on the video if you know what to look for, but of course there are others elements that are not visible on video which needs to be felt.

[pazman]

Requesting fight footage.

[stonecrusher69]

[QUOTE=hunt1;1279238]


First off I don't think Phil is a naive poorly trained wing chun sifu as you've suggested above, I believe he has spent over 40 plus years in the art. I don't think Phil would have travelled to San Jose to learn from Hendrik if he believed there was nothing to learn. I have over 25 years experience in the art of wing chun, I wouldn't have travelled to San Jose to learn from Hendrik if I felt there was nothing there to learn. Phil Romero, Alan Orr, Dave mckinnon, Sergio Iadarola , Jim Roselando, Robert Chu, Delroi Flood and myself are all senior wing chun instructors. Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you visit Robert Chu to learn from him at one point? As a collective there is more than 100 years of wing chun experience are amongst us, clearly there is something to what Hendrik is sharing.



Not sure what you mean this??? perhaps you can explain what you are referring to. everything is on the video if you know what to look for, but of course there are others elements that are not visible on video which needs to be felt.


Thanks for the clips Navin..I'm glad you finally put up a video of yourself. Nicely done.

[kung fu fighter]

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1279242]


Thanks for the clips Navin..I'm glad you finally put up a video of yourself. Nicely done.

thanks Brother! I forgot to mention that Sifu Michael Mcilwrath also went to san Jose to learn from Hendrik as well and he is a senior wing chun instructor in NYC as well with well over 30 years of wing chun experience.

[Bai Chi]

[QUOTE=hunt1;1279238]


First off I don't think Phil is a naive poorly trained wing chun sifu as you've suggested above, I believe he has spent over 40 plus years in the art. I don't think Phil would have travelled to San Jose to learn from Hendrik if he believed there was nothing to learn. I have over 25 years experience in the art of wing chun, I wouldn't have travelled to San Jose to learn from Hendrik if I felt there was nothing there to learn. Phil Romero, Alan Orr, Dave mckinnon, Sergio Iadarola , Jim Roselando, Robert Chu, Delroi Flood and myself are all senior wing chun instructors. Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you visit Robert Chu to learn from him at one point? As a collective there is more than 100 years of wing chun experience are amongst us, clearly there is something to what Hendrik is sharing.

I never said he was, that is you putting words in my mouth, but since you're on the subject......Those that you mention, their years of experience do not shine them in a good light as having learned any depth to their prospective methods.

You are wrong, I never studied under Rob Chu. I have crossed hands with many chunners both famous and unknown and can clearly state that fame alone does not mean skill. Too many MAist rely on the reputation of their school or sifu instead of establishing themselves. The only thing to what Hendrik is sharing is opportunity for unknowns to become recognized and make some money by supporting those that are promoting this scam. If they truely had as much knowledge as you say they have, they would see right through this rubbish. The fact that they support it speaks volumes about their character and knowledge.

One question for you. If this is such a superior method, how come so many of you hang out on the message boards proding for info on various subjects related to wing tsun theory?

[Vajramusti]

http://youtu.be/uLg5K-BQMoM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0mhPNAj87w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuFvGPrlVB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuFvGPrlVB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pivZYykhYRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0zGpdsH334
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIMWYf2pnGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfacr_xMqXg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es13X4cIimI
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The wonders of the internet!

[anerlich]

"The revolution will not be televised" - Gil Scott-Heron

"Nor will it be shown on Youtube" - anerlich

[Vajramusti]

"The revolution will not be televised" - Gil Scott-Heron

"Nor will it be shown on Youtube" - anerlich
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh gee- the world will miss out again?

[PalmStriker]

:) First things first we've got to restore the Ming. The Force Flow Rebellion is going to have to wait.

[Vajramusti]

:) First things first we've got to restore the Ming. The Force Flow Rebellion is going to have to wait.








----------------

You mean-it did not go by already?

[stonecrusher69]

I thought this forum was supposed to have changed and act more like decent human being..I guess that was a impermanent gesture...Ok carry on acting like 5 year old children..

[Wayfaring]

The real problem with 5 year old children is they can't subscribe to internet marketing sites so are not a potential source of revenue.... :eek:

Well, they do think potty humor is funny. I guess that also is a problem. :D

[Vajramusti]

I thought this forum was supposed to have changed and act more like decent human being..I guess that was a impermanent gesture...Ok carry on acting like 5 year old children..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


????Navin comparing Hendrik's snake body engine to Gallileo's paradigm shift and a revolution in the west is presumptuous
and immature history.
The forum had changed briefly with Hendrik making one of his departures.

[Wayfaring]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


????Navin comparing Hendrik's snake body engine to Gallileo's paradigm shift and a revolution in the west is presumptuous
and immature history.
The forum had changed briefly with Hendrik making one of his departures.

The more mature way of putting it....

[stonecrusher69]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


????Navin comparing Hendrik's snake body engine to Gallileo's paradigm shift and a revolution in the west is presumptuous
and immature history.
The forum had changed briefly with Hendrik making one of his departures.

No one said you have to agree with the videos,but at least act your age..At least Navin took the time to put something together and present it unlike you who only contributes hot air...See now I'm acting your age...haha

[Vajramusti]

No one said you have to agree with the videos,but at least act your age..At least Navin took the time to put something together and present it unlike you who only contributes hot air...See now I'm acting your age...haha

-----------------------------------------


Does the above deserve an answer? I think not.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And somewhere, all those people that have ever fought with wing chun and bleed, turn over in their graves !
LOL
If the new revolution is about taking basic principles that virtually everyone does ( in almost every MA by the way) and putting a "new label" on it, then well done !!

[GlennR]

No one said you have to agree with the videos,but at least act your age..At least Navin took the time to put something together and present it unlike you who only contributes hot air...See now I'm acting your age...haha

Well tell hin to use a better choice of words. If he said, "here's how our guys train Hendricks way" then that's fine. I'm sure you would even get feedback, responses etc

But use the word "revolution" and you are suggesting there is something wrong with the old way. Red rag to a bull in my opinion but that's fine wave away...... These revolutionary clips are worth a chuckle on an otherwise dull Tuesday

[GlennR]

And somewhere, all those people that have ever fought with wing chun and bleed, turn over in their graves !
LOL
If the new revolution is about taking basic principles that virtually everyone does ( in almost every MA by the way) and putting a "new label" on it, then well done !!

Exactly, maybe these 30 year plus veterans needed it explained to them by hendrik. Wow......

[Eric_H]

It's a wonderful cure for insomnia.

[anerlich]

If you use the word "revolution" with those clips as evidence, you invite derision.

All the clips are working with compliant partners. At least Navin and Alan Orr showed something resembling fighting against resistance, for which they deserve respect.

Phil Romero grabbed ponytail guy by the wrists and lifted him up or pushed him away. Someone lets me get those grips on him, he's getting arm dragged, snapped down or headbutted. Push him away and give up those grips? Never. Phil might be awesome at Wing Chun, but those clips give no evidence of that.

Jim Roselando showing that if the guy is all tense he's easy to push, less so if he's relaxed? How revelatory! Show an application against resistance.

Dave McKinnon gave me some sound tactics if someone grabs my arm or fist and starts pushing. Which happens all the time on the mean streets of Sydney. He may be great at WC, but that's not possible to determine from this clip.

Sergio did stuff to neutralise some sycophants' not-too-hard pushes which bear uncanny resemblance to stuff I saw on an old Russian MA VHS tape about 12 years ago. I was begging someone to haul off and punch him in his smug face or double leg him.

Frankly, this stuff looks like basic to intermediate level taiji. From what I've seen on the clips, a half decent judo guy with a bit of boxing defence would murder everyone on these vids except maybe Navin and Alan.

We seem to be getting further away from actual fighting against a resisting opponent and more towards demonstrations, stunts, magic tricks, and "concepts" only understood by the "true initiates" who have had direct contact with "Master Hendrik" ... whereas to those ingrates left in outer darkness they look inconsequential and mostly unrelated to Wing Chun's alleged original purpose ... fighting.

Do I sound aggressive? Yeah. I'm far beyond uncritical acceptance of this stuff from Hendrik Santo and disappointed that people expect me to continue to put up with calling this a "revolution" when it's suspiciously like a latter day version of the Emperor's New Clothes.

This is not the way for Wing Chun to reclaim relevance.

[Vajramusti]

If you use the word "revolution" with those clips as evidence, you invite derision.

All the clips are working with compliant partners. At least Navin and Alan Orr showed something resembling fighting against resistance, for which they deserve respect.

Phil Romero grabbed ponytail guy by the wrists and lifted him up or pushed him away. Someone lets me get those grips on him, he's getting arm dragged, snapped down or headbutted. Push him away and give up those grips? Never. Phil might be awesome at Wing Chun, but those clips give no evidence of that.
Jim Roselando showing that if the guy is all tense he's easy to push, less so if he's relaxed? How revelatory! Show an application against resistance.
Dave McKinnon gave me some sound tactics if someone grabs my arm or fist and starts pushing. Which happens all the time on the mean streets of Sydney. He may be great at WC, but that's not possible to determine from this clip.
Sergio did stuff to neutralise some sycophants' not-too-hard pushes which bear uncanny resemblance to stuff I saw on an old Russian MA VHS tape about 12 years ago. I was begging someone to haul off and punch him in his smug face or double leg him.
Frankly, this stuff looks like basic to intermediate level taiji. From what I've seen on the clips, a half decent judo guy with a bit of boxing defence would murder everyone on these vids except maybe Navin and Alan.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We seem to be getting further away from actual fighting against a resisting opponent and more towards demonstrations, stunts, magic tricks, and "concepts" only understood by the "true initiates" who have had direct contact with "Master Hendrik" ... whereas to those ingrates left in outer darkness they look inconsequential and mostly unrelated to Wing Chun's alleged original purpose ... fighting.

Do I sound aggressive? Yeah. I'm far beyond uncritical acceptance of this stuff from Hendrik Santo and disappointed that people expect me to continue to put up with calling this a "revolution" when it's suspiciously like a latter day version of the Emperor's New Clothes.

This is not the way for Wing Chun to reclaim relevance.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post. Agree with the individual distinctions made between the videos.I am also unclear what the common theme is- is everyone demonstrating snake engine, structure. motion and power source.??


PS- sorry to hear about the hostage crisis and the sad results in Australia, Could have been worse.

[anerlich]

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Good post. Agree with the individual distinctions made between the videos.I am also unclear what the common theme is- is everyone demonstrating snake engine, structure. motion and power source.??


PS- sorry to hear about the hostage crisis and the sad results in Australia, Could have been worse.

I'm not quite sure what the common theme is either, though presumably if we make the pilgrimage to Santo HQ, we'll be given the secret handshake.

Yes, the seige was a horrible business. Apparently the cafe manager saw the offender start to fall asleep and rushed him and his weapon, allowing nearly all the other hostages to escape, but sadly losing his own life. B@lls of steel. RIP.

Most of Sydney would have been glued to TV screens last night watching events. The police acted with huge competence, patience and restraint.

[anerlich]

If there is going to be a positive revolution in Wing Chun it's going to look more like this than any of those vids:

92639264

Copied from Sifu Philip Redmond's Facebook page.

[GlennR]

I'm not quite sure what the common theme is either, though presumably if we make the pilgrimage to Santo HQ, we'll be given the secret handshake.

Yes, the seige was a horrible business. Apparently the cafe manager saw the offender start to fall asleep and rushed him and his weapon, allowing nearly all the other hostages to escape, but sadly losing his own life. B@lls of steel. RIP.

Most of Sydney would have been glued to TV screens last night watching events. The police acted with huge competence, patience and restraint.

Yep, the police did a great job.

And i cant admire the young chap enough Andrew.... a real hero.

[Vajramusti]

Yep, the police did a great job.

And i cant admire the young chap enough Andrew.... a real hero.-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure sounds like it.The police did a great job- rushed in after shots were being fired inside.

On - a different note related by religious fanaticism- over 120 people including school children were
killed in Peshawar Pakistan with a Taliban group claiming "credit".

"Ideology" & beliefs matter and there are degrees of intensity of beliefs While there is intensity
and conceptions of martyrdom in Shia- the jihadis are generally Sunni. Interesting that the terrorist in Sydney
was originally a Shia who converted to Sunni.

[Wayfaring]

If you use the word "revolution" with those clips as evidence, you invite derision.

All the clips are working with compliant partners. At least Navin and Alan Orr showed something resembling fighting against resistance, for which they deserve respect.

Phil Romero grabbed ponytail guy by the wrists and lifted him up or pushed him away. Someone lets me get those grips on him, he's getting arm dragged, snapped down or headbutted. Push him away and give up those grips? Never. Phil might be awesome at Wing Chun, but those clips give no evidence of that.

Jim Roselando showing that if the guy is all tense he's easy to push, less so if he's relaxed? How revelatory! Show an application against resistance.

Dave McKinnon gave me some sound tactics if someone grabs my arm or fist and starts pushing. Which happens all the time on the mean streets of Sydney. He may be great at WC, but that's not possible to determine from this clip.

Sergio did stuff to neutralise some sycophants' not-too-hard pushes which bear uncanny resemblance to stuff I saw on an old Russian MA VHS tape about 12 years ago. I was begging someone to haul off and punch him in his smug face or double leg him.

Frankly, this stuff looks like basic to intermediate level taiji. From what I've seen on the clips, a half decent judo guy with a bit of boxing defence would murder everyone on these vids except maybe Navin and Alan.

We seem to be getting further away from actual fighting against a resisting opponent and more towards demonstrations, stunts, magic tricks, and "concepts" only understood by the "true initiates" who have had direct contact with "Master Hendrik" ... whereas to those ingrates left in outer darkness they look inconsequential and mostly unrelated to Wing Chun's alleged original purpose ... fighting.

Do I sound aggressive? Yeah. I'm far beyond uncritical acceptance of this stuff from Hendrik Santo and disappointed that people expect me to continue to put up with calling this a "revolution" when it's suspiciously like a latter day version of the Emperor's New Clothes.

This is not the way for Wing Chun to reclaim relevance.

Spot on mate, to use a bit of your lingo :)

[GlennR]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On - a different note related by religious fanaticism- over 120 people including school children were
killed in Peshawar Pakistan with a Taliban group claiming "credit".

Read about it last night Joy. I cant comprehend how any man, or woman, could be involved in this. Is there a worse type of atrocity??


"Ideology" & beliefs matter and there are degrees of intensity of beliefs While there is intensity
and conceptions of martyrdom in Shia- the jihadis are generally Sunni. Interesting that the terrorist in Sydney
was originally a Shia who converted to Sunni.


To be honest, i think he used religion as a veil to cover his lunacy. Murdered ex-wife (who was set alight), 40 sexual assault charges, abandoned his first wife & Children in Iran...... the man was just a scumbag

[anerlich]

The Pakistani atrocity was indeed horrible. Children are innocent.

[stonecrusher69]

Well tell hin to use a better choice of words. If he said, "here's how our guys train Hendricks way" then that's fine. I'm sure you would even get feedback, responses etc

But use the word "revolution" and you are suggesting there is something wrong with the old way. Red rag to a bull in my opinion but that's fine wave away...... These revolutionary clips are worth a chuckle on an otherwise dull Tuesday

So what he used the word " Revolution" no reason to act childish. What you may think is in your own head.

[GlennR]

So what he used the word " Revolution" no reason to act childish. What you may think is in your own head.

Who acted childish?
I have an opinion on this whole "new way" that Hendrik has put forward ,and the way he has promoted it, and ill respond to it how i feel.

It is a forum, you do know that?

As i said earlier, i think its all bit of a chuckle, and if you feel so sensitive about peoples opinions then don't read the responses

[LFJ]

So what he used the word " Revolution" no reason to act childish.

Calling it a revolution is childish. :)

[Wayfaring]

Who cares whether or not someone is acting childish? WTF does that have to do with any "wing chun revolution"? I mean here we have a collection of videos that are from people that are unrelated, and the people in the videos I'm pretty sure aren't consenting to being connected to the other people in the videos.

So I would say yes a revolution has started. A video mashup revolution. Followed by a namecalling revolution. Oh wait. That's not a revolution around here.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Revolution baby !!
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