Instructor certification?

[Shaolindynasty]

http://www.usckf.org/usckf/certification/index.shtml
Does anybody know exactly how this works? My Sifu did it when he was a member but it is hard to get details about anything from him (he is always so **** general) He says they judge you by watching you do forms etc. Has anybody here gone through this?


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Robinf]

I've never done that. But, for TKD, we get certified through the Kukkiwon. It's no big deal to be certified or not. The only reason I could see in getting certification is if you're teaching--just to let your students know where you're coming from. Some people are big on only studying from people who are "certified".

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[GLW]

It means absolutely nothing outside of the Kuoshu Federation.

Even within the USCKF it only means as much as how hard the testing was.

Certification for Chinese Martial Arts has been a hot potato topic for years. When you certify someone, you are in many ways, endorsing them. This is a dangerous thing for an organization to do. A person may be able to pass a test but run an unsafe or unscrupulous class, teach in an unsafe manner, not know how to teach, etc.... and even though the rules state that the person must display Wu De (martial ethics), many can get around that. Then, in a legalistic society like the US, a person who is wronged can sue the school and then may try to sue the certifying organization as well.

Also, politics enters into it a lot. If a person goes for certification but has ****ed off someone on the certifying board - bingo - no certification...if they have a friend, bingo- easy but undeserved certification.

Then you have the broader politics. USCKF is backed by the ROC (Taiwan)...as such, it has been known to limit involvement with the PRC to members. For example, some members of the USCKF dropped out of the USAWKF when the IWuF recognized the USAWKF....solely due to the IWuF being PRC based...even though that recognition ONLY dealt with Contemporary wushu and the USAWKF has Traditional divisions as well as Internal that are separate from the Contemporary.

So, if you are into certifications, make sure you know what the limitations for certifications are within the group you go through...and be aware that even though you may pay for the paper, it may not mean much

[Royal Dragon]

Heck, I know what I'm doing, can't I just print a certifacation that says the Royal Dragon Kung Fu school certifies me to teach?

I'm the Royal Dragon, it's MY curriculem, "I" put it together from more than a decade of doing this stuff and reseaching it, right? Technically, arn't "I" the only one qualified to decide if i'm "certifyable" (ok, Ok! we all know I'm certifyable, just look at my spelling!!! :p ) or not?

Those that are sucessful are also the biggest failures. the difference between them and the rest of the failures is this, they keep getting up over and over again, until they succeed. "The more they try, the more they fail, BUT, the more they try & fail, the more opertunity they have to succeed, and succeed they do!!"

Check out the Royal Dragon Web site & Message Board.

http://www.Royaldragon.4dw.com or http://www.dreamwater.net/biz/royaldragon/

[EARTH DRAGON]

certification is important for not only legal but obvious reasons. When teaching you should have a teaching certificate signed by your teacher allowing you to teach and be certified through some where. Mine is signed, certified and stamped through bejing university in china, which is like a diploma, a way to prove that you are qualified to teach. If you do not have such documentation you could be a nobody and open a school and teach people when you know little more than them. You see so you should be certified through your lineage or federation board of directors or institute becuse if you are not then people will question your credientials, but you should never buy someone elses federations certificates thats just a way to make money off of people who dont have the real thing and if you teach without being certified you can be sued! for false representaion. As far as printing your own its only worth the paper you write it on, you might as well print money its worth about as much!no one wants a uncertified teacher, thats like finding out your college proffessor was the janitor.........

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[Dark Knight]

Certifying yourself means that you can honestly say to your students you have a curriculum and standards for your system or school. Any one can buy all the videos to "Create" their own style, but it gives professionalism to our industry that you actually went through the accepted standards to be an instructor or whatever rank you have.

I have seen students come from schools that were Black Belts, but when they went to another school they were not accepted as Black Belts because they new school knew that the other school was a Mcdojo with no standards. I fyour rank is certified with a legitimate organization (and there are big one that are just there to make money) You are doing a service to your students so that they never have a question as to the validity of their rank if they go elsewhere.

I have my Ju-Jitsu rank certified through US Ju-Jitsu (www.usjjf.org (http://www.usjjf.org)) and Karate rank in USA National Karate-Do Federation (www.usankf.org (http://www.usankf.org)) because they are the national governing bnodies for those styles. If I were a Judo Black Belt I would have that registered with the appropriate organization.

Not all style have governing bodies in this country yet, but as they are accepted in the world games and olympics they will.

There are organizations out there that will promote you to 10th degree if you have a 5th in one system and are 35 years old. Does that certification actually make you a Grand master? (And give you a hall of fame award) And why bother with the last ranks if you can go from 5th to 10th, especially today when you can buy tapes and add to your system.

Certification lets your students know you have not bought your rank.

[GLW]

Let me see....

way back when I started, the first style I did was Moo Duk Kwan. The instructor was a Korean guy and worked for another named Yi Mo Ahn....

They charged around $25 for belt tests...until you got to black and that was $300...the reason was "We send your credentials off to Korea to be registered".

When the school changed hands, we found on going through the records, all of the black belts that were supposed to be sent to Korea....never done. yet they had their certification.

Say you learn from a very good teacher from his home. You train hard and get quite far but your teacher does not do a certification....then dies...where are you...are you any less qualified to teach than if he DID do certificates?

Say you learn from a certified teacher of decent lineage...but that teacher is into money and you have paid your dues...and he certifies you to teach....are you any MORE qualified to teach than if you had not paid for the certificate?

Certificates from China...CAN be obtained for a price. Training in China under a good teacher who does NOT correct you enough can be had...quite easily.

No matter what you do, there are charlatans. Some have certifications...others do not. Some good teachers do not have them and some do.

If you are in one organization, another may very well say that your organization is bogus...not for any just cause....but because they do not like your org's politics....

So, take ALL certifications with a grain of salt. Take the lack of any certifications the same way.

Case in point...

A person has a degree from a Physical Education University in the PRC...degree in Wushu. They show the diploma and are teaching Taijiquan.

Unless you KNOW for a fact that they did extensive study in Taijiquan, is there anything you can say about their qualifications to teach Taijiquan?

NOPE...the degree program has 2 requirements for Taijiquan - 24 Posture Taijiquan and 32 Posture Taijijian. They are not even in depth so the person may not really know those two routines to that great a depth. BUT...they come to the US and realize that there's gold in them thar Taiji folks.... so now they teach Taijiquan...and more than one style.... Are they qualified?

Maybe not.

[Dark Knight]

"So, take ALL certifications with a grain of salt. Take the lack of any certifications the same way."

unluckly you are right. There are certified people who should not be allowed to be in public, and there are uncertified people who are beyond many certified masters.

And there will always be someone looking to make a buck.

As far as studying under someone that is not certified, these organizations will work with you to make sure you are certified where you should be. If you studied with master Bob in his garage for 10 years and he died, you called USJJF and wanted to register you rank, they will help you out. Its not hard and they want to be as much help as they can be.

As far as one organization not accepting anothers credentials, this does happen, my JJ and Goju rank are with organizations that have political problems but they do hold the NGB status. My TKD rank is not with the NGB, but its not something I worry about, I dont promote people in it or care if I get promoted again in it.

Cetifications do not mean that you are the best qualified, or not, but at least they give our industry some legitimacy. And we due suffer from a lack of it from many sources.

[Fu-Pow]

I went to Sifu Eddie Lane's Siu Lam Pai kung fu school in Bellingham,WA for about a year. He has a really nice curriculum and it is layed out very well and straight forward. Great school and great teacher. If any of you live in B-ham check it out.

Anyways, at the end of each level of training you get a "certificate." They are really nice and intricate and hard to duplicate. I still have mine from the first level of training and I even got it framed.

As it turns out, a couple of his previous students (before I was there) stole some of his advanced level certificates. They opened up their own school in Bellingham and hung these certificates on the wall. Everyone at Sifu Lane's knew they were a fraud. But to the new student it would appear that these students had completed the Hung Gar curriculum.

So it really is a double edged sword.

Fu-Pow

http://www.geocities.com/fu_pow/vmrc-halloween-3.jpg


http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/Choy%20Lay%20Fut%20red.gif

[Shaolindynasty]

****, I didn't know this was such a touchy subject. I just wanted to know how they can certify you in your own system. If they don't know it.


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Shaolindynasty]

Fu pow- That really sucks that they would do that. I guess thats why if you see a certificate on the wall you should be able to contact that org. it came from.


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)