Physical shape masters

[mig]

I have noticed that in general guys become heavier or fat as they get older and it seems that Masters in kung fu are not the exception. Very few I see keep in shape, lean bodies and no belly. The majority I've seen and now more from videos you find in the internet. Aren't masters supposed to have good diets, being flexible and being in great shape. If I look at pictures from Lam Jo, hungkyun southern style, he lasted hundred and compared to many he was in good shape. I know, I will hear it is also genes related but still the majority I see out there are out of shape, fat or big belly. What's your take on this?

Mig

[Jimbo]

Most people gain weight as they get older, period. That's because there is a point where you can no longer train to the same degree. How many people, do you think, can train the same degree in their 60s and 70s that they did in their 20s and 30s? There may be a rare exception here and there of a 60-something who can out-train athletic, hard-working, talented 20-somethings. Even then, I think if they're honest about it, such a rare exception would admit he can't train as much/as hard as he did in his 20s/30s.

The body changes as you get older. Injuries can take a toll, too, which can also affect your motivation to train as much. If you're young you may not think so, but it will happen to you, too. Look at most former pro athletes such as boxers, etc. Take George Foreman...he still looks great in his 60s, but he can't and doesn't look like he did in 1973. Few ex-fighters his age have aged so gracefully. Look at most retired pro wrestlers, who tend to become fat, even though they worked their @sses off and were "ripped" in their prime. i've noticed karate men in particular, including most of the famous ones, gain lots of weight as they age. Moreso than kung fu men.

I had gained over 30 pounds the last few years due partly to getting older, but mostly due to an injury that affects my ability to train as much as I'd like to. In 8 months, I lost over 30 pounds (from 196 to 164), and am back down to my ideal weight, where I plan to stay. In fact, I plan to drop down a bit lower. It takes willpower and determination. And more self-discipline than before. If you like to eat, guess what? As you get older, you'll have to eat less, because your metabolism slows as you age. Slower metabolism/less rigorous activity/same eating habits=gaining weight. Those who never gain weight tend to be those who naturally eat small amounts.

This doesn't even take into account that most 20-somethings have/have had fewer responsibilities in life besides training.

[mig]

The reason why I posted is watching so many masters being in pretty bad shape and very few in good shape. It seems to be an eating disorder and having the means to pay for more food. I would have thought that those masters knew better TCM, neigong or else. Today, people our age close to 60 or older have more choices to learn and keep active and in good shape. I am more interested in how those who are in good shape made it such as Lalanne, Jhoon Rhee, Hee Il Cho, Wallace, Joe Lewis just to name a few of them.

[boxerbilly]

most people gain weight as they get older, period. That's because there is a point where you can no longer train to the same degree. How many people, do you think, can train the same degree in their 60s and 70s that they did in their 20s and 30s? There may be a rare exception here and there of a 60-something who can out-train athletic, hard-working, talented 20-somethings. Even then, i think if they're honest about it, such a rare exception would admit he can't train as much/as hard as he did in his 20s/30s.

The body changes as you get older. Injuries can take a toll, too, which can also affect your motivation to train as much. If you're young you may not think so, but it will happen to you, too. Look at most former pro athletes such as boxers, etc. Take george foreman...he still looks great in his 60s, but he can't and doesn't look like he did in 1973. Few ex-fighters his age have aged so gracefully. Look at most retired pro wrestlers, who tend to become fat, even though they worked their @sses off and were "ripped" in their prime. I've noticed karate men in particular, including most of the famous ones, gain lots of weight as they age. Moreso than kung fu men.

I had gained over 30 pounds the last few years due partly to getting older, but mostly due to an injury that affects my ability to train as much as i'd like to. In 8 months, i lost over 30 pounds (from 196 to 164), and am back down to my ideal weight, where i plan to stay. In fact, i plan to drop down a bit lower. It takes willpower and determination. And more self-discipline than before. If you like to eat, guess what? As you get older, you'll have to eat less, because your metabolism slows as you age. Slower metabolism/less rigorous activity/same eating habits=gaining weight. Those who never gain weight tend to be those who naturally eat small amounts.

This doesn't even take into account that most 20-somethings have/have had fewer responsibilities in life besides training.

yep !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lucas]

Genetics certainly play a role but I think for the most part being able to identify and adapt to your bodies changing needs as we get older is the true deciding factor. Diet , in most cases , needs a regular adjustment, as does our exercise routine. In my observation most of the elder martial artists I've met and learned from that also maintained physically, stressed the importance of identifying and addressing this balance.

[bawang]

if you are a professional kung fu guy you have zero excuse to be out of shape. that job is like most relaxing job in the world.

[Lucas]

Lol too true!

[Jimbo]

if you are a professional kung fu guy you have zero excuse to be out of shape. that job is like most relaxing job in the world.

I agree with this if kung fu (or any MA) is your profession. Luckily for me, I have a profession and it's not MA. As I've said, I've seen more obese karate guys (Kenpo gut) than any other arts.

I'll be turning 52 in a few days, and my own current training is 2 hours/day, 4 days/week. Hard enough, but not like I could go pre-injury. That's not an excuse. If you don't have any nagging injuries, congratulations. Throughout the years, I've known hundreds of people who quit MA cold turkey for a lot less than that. IMO, this injury has renewed my determination to get back to 100%. This shows who is really dedicated or not. Anybody can be 'dedicated' when they're at 100% with no challenges like injuries to deal with/work around.

It's also true *some* teachers become fat due to sheer laziness. Some (or a lot) of them become complacent.

[mig]

Interesting that most of everyone talks about genetics, exercises, body type whereas the root of many of the problems as we age is nutrition, life style and knowing ourselves to find that famous balance. I didn't realize I am getting older until recently as my joints are weaker and easy to get injured. Self realization of how we destroy ourselves with bad foods and over doing or hurting ourselves. Sort of masochist mechanism then we accept that we will suffer until we die. What strikes me is that those who said were masters and got fat, were not masters, just were good physically to perform period. Let's see how do you think you keep yourself fit as you grow older?

[boxerbilly]

Let's see how do you think you keep yourself fit as you grow older?

That is a good question. There are tons of ways to achieve fitness if one knows his end goal. Then the most important aspect is sticking to it. Most do not stick with things long enough to achieve their goals. It may not be because they give up but that they change their minds about what they want after starting. The primary reason most never become great I'd suggest. A fault I myself am not immune to.

[Lucas]

My first teacher's advice still resonates to this day. ' you need to eat like you want to live' this bit of basic advice is the root of good health. What we consume is not food. It is energy. Clean energy in proper proportion is key to maintaining any form of life. The better the source, the better the results. The proof is as simple as observing nature around us.

[mig]

My first teacher's advice still resonates to this day. ' you need to eat like you want to live' this bit of basic advice is the root of good health. What we consume is not food. It is energy. Clean energy in proper proportion is key to maintaining any form of life. The better the source, the better the results. The proof is as simple as observing nature around us.

I would say the food transformed into energy. I am not quite sure I understand about the concept of clean energy. One thing I am finding out is that not necessarily the clean energy as every body is developed differently. Some have organs stronger than others therefore the more we destroy ourselves the worst it becomes as we get older. Unfortunately, as we get older is when we realize what we need to learn to age fit and in good health. Little we know how our bodies work and little we do to take care about our internal organs. So much literature, so much theories that one can get lost easily. I started to believe that finding the right nutrients is one of the factors to keep that energy ongoing and luckily today we can follow up with blood test, urine and stool labs, etc. For those over 50-60 how do you keep in shape practicing MA and the nutrition that had helped you to keep stronger and alive.

[PalmStriker]

:) For those of you who have not reached the age of sixty yet: As you approach 60, say 57 0r so, your muscles will start going through a slackening effect and will not be able to "pad" your skeletal frame as you were used to up till that time. Sitting will be a bit uncomfortable and holding your arms/elbows on your thighs while sitting will also take some getting used to as your skin/muscle tissue will roll as opposed to being firmly held in place connected to bone. My summer "fighting weight" for agility was always 185lbs. Winter weight up to 200lbs. In order for me to feel comfortable again at 63 with my skeletal frame not being a real noticeable dis-comfortable reality zone I have put on an extra 10 lbs which means I am 25 lbs heavier than I used to be for working out, etc. This is OK though as the trade-off has allowed me some extra strength due to increase in size. I figure in time the extra pounds should distribute more evenly across the board as I maintain this new weight class. *note: After 60 I would advise to not put too much force into your practice strikes as your muscles can not handle that like they once did. Better to have them undamaged if you need them in a pinch. ( The tiger is still a tiger even if it grows up in captivity). Healing takes 'o so much longer, be prepared.

[mickey]

Greetings,

PalmStriker:

You should be banned for simply taking the time to scare the living sh!t out of people.

BANN IM!!!! BANN IZZ AZZ!! BANN IZZ AZZ NOW!!!


mickey

[PalmStriker]

:D LOL! Just thought I'd clue you yung'uns in on the reality circuit. Spent my early days studying Indian Vedic literature and living like a monk for a number of years for the body transcendence understanding. That said, you may not want to get too attached to the "quantum display" of the unfolding Universe, ha! Not to worry, though, we're all in for the same ride. Enjoy! https://www.google.com/search?q=Buddha,+universal+mind&biw=1416&bih=776&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=MH5JVeegPMaHsAXx3YG4Dw&ved=0CEgQsAQ

[mickey]

Greetings,

Seriously, PalmStriker, you have never trained kung? I do not believe that you should be going through what you are going through.

mickey

[PalmStriker]

:) The extra weight has created the padding I need to remedy the situation. :D Comfortable now. Muscle weight increase from carrying extra pounds is result. I am on my feet 11 hours a day, 6 days per week working a physical job, that helps maintain full body strength. People who do not live "floor culture" existence do not have the mobility to even get up off the floor if they need to after they are sixty years old. People sit and walk around like they are on stilts and have no strength in their legs from Western lifestyle.

[mickey]

O.K,

So, you bulk phased yourself. That suggests that you really needed more nutrients to do what you do and to generate muscle synthesis. And that means that for more than a few years, you were functioning at a nutritional deficit.

mickey

[mig]

:) The extra weight has created the padding I need to remedy the situation. :D Comfortable now. Muscle weight increase from carrying extra pounds is result. I am on my feet 11 hours a day, 6 days per week working a physical job, that helps maintain full body strength. People who do not live "floor culture" existence do not have the mobility to even get up off the floor if they need to after they are sixty years old. People sit and walk around like they are on stilts and have no strength in their legs from Western lifestyle.

Why extra weight? What you describe isn't the result of being overweight? What I am learning is that nutrition, nutrients are the key of living for your mind and body. I spent too much sitting in front of a computer and now I learned that I need breaks, stretching, warm up, push ups but again, I am noticing that if I eat the wrong foods as processed foods, too much carbs and less vegetables, my body tells me immediately. My skin still good for my near 60 and still flexible doing roundhouse kicks, butterfly kicks, clockwise kicks though my knees need support and I need much longer stretching. So after 50 dudes what do you eat to keep you fit?

[David Jamieson]

After 40 years (35 actually) you are going to start putting on more adipose tissue (fat)
On your stomach especially and around your kidneys and internal organs. Such is aging.

If you have loads of time and a good dietitian, you can remain quite svelte all the way into the ground.
If you want to maintain balance, strength and physical ability, you certainly can.

[Jimbo]

As far as what I eat, I'm not going through a complete list, but I eat lots of fresh fruits; fresh as well as cooked vegetables; brown instead of white rice. I cook all my own meals, and since discovering I have a gluten intolerance, avoid anything with gluten in it. I haven't eaten beef or pork for 20 years. I do eat chicken and turkey. Also seafood, but I've been avoiding it due to the gulf oil spill and the Fukushima radiation leak (flood, actually). Who knows how badly the seafood that comes from the Gulf and the Pacific have been affected?

I like to eat healthy, but I'm not necessarily a 'health food nut'. I know and have talked to people who are, and some of them are so worried about EVERYthing that IMO, it sucks the joy out of life. They over-analyze this, that and the other, and honestly, some of what they describe existing on would turn my stomach.

Having to go gluten free was not a hippie choice on my part, but a necessity. It's a big inconvenience, and GF food is more expensive, too. It's also cut out most of the unhealthy fat from my diet. Still, a lot of GF alternatives, such as spaghetti, Asian noodles, condiments, even bread made from brown rice flour still taste like the regular stuff.

Even healthy eating requires moderation of amounts. Since around '08, I had let my weight creep up until last year, in spite of the better diet. I also wrongly believed that it was inevitable due to my injury and aging. True, the body changes, but when I made up my mind to lose weight again, it really wasn't that hard. I lost over 30 pounds, and plan to lose 10 more, to give me a safety zone. It can be done, it just takes more discipline. Don't eat really big portions, especially at night.

A lot of how you age has to do with genetics and mindset, too. Many people say I'm young-looking due to Asian ancestry, but I think it's more family genetics. Because I've seen plenty of Asians who don't age well. Lots of people still mistake me for 35. And now, dropping the weight has probably taken off a couple more years in my appearance. And if you believe things will suck as you get older, you will be doing yourself no favors. Your mindset does have an affect on your body.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I have been blessed to have seen many contradictions to the aging paradigm. My feeling is that it comes down to two factors, genetics and self care. I saw a photo of one of my second cousins from a few years ago. He was approaching 60. He looked 18. In Harlem alone, I have seen quite a few aging anomalies as that. I have often been stumped by brothers from the Nation of Islam. They often look much younger than their age.


mickey

[mig]

Greetings,

I have been blessed to have seen many contradictions to the aging paradigm. My feeling is that it comes down to two factors, genetics and self care. I saw a photo of one of my second cousins from a few years ago. He was approaching 60. He looked 18. In Harlem alone, I have seen quite a few aging anomalies as that. I have often been stumped by brothers from the Nation of Islam. They often look much younger than their age.


mickey

You are right about all contradictions as everyone was built differently. One thing I noticed that elderly people who are in shape they certainly didn't hurt much doing sports. Then I still see out there old people trying to do exercises though they are crippled and certainly they are hurting themselves. I hear more than often even from doctors, it is genetics. What does that really mean, genetics? Again, those who are in their 50's or 60's in top shape how it works for them to be in top or regular shape doing their forms, exercises, body building?

[mig]

After 40 years (35 actually) you are going to start putting on more adipose tissue (fat)
On your stomach especially and around your kidneys and internal organs. Such is aging.

If you have loads of time and a good dietitian, you can remain quite svelte all the way into the ground.
If you want to maintain balance, strength and physical ability, you certainly can.

Isn't that a generalization about "such is aging". I heard that before and now that I am aging I am discovering that's not the way. It is the way to find what works for you, what nutrients are important to help your body. That sentence is the key of self destructive mindset and when I started having pain in my feet, fingers and joints I discovered the magic of good nutrients and how bad I was treating myself eating the wrong foods. The balance of work duties to make a living and your life in general is very important to keep the momentum. No matter what your body will give up one day. That's the cycle of life, I guess.

[David Jamieson]

Isn't that a generalization about "such is aging". I heard that before and now that I am aging I am discovering that's not the way. It is the way to find what works for you, what nutrients are important to help your body. That sentence is the key of self destructive mindset and when I started having pain in my feet, fingers and joints I discovered the magic of good nutrients and how bad I was treating myself eating the wrong foods. The balance of work duties to make a living and your life in general is very important to keep the momentum. No matter what your body will give up one day. That's the cycle of life, I guess.

In general, we all age, our bodies fail, then we die. It is not self destructive to recognize this.
Yes, people can decide to maintain as much as they can, but there is no escaping age, there is no reversing of it.
There is no magic pill.

The wages of neglect are poor health.
The wages of maintenance are quality of life as you grow old.

No one get's out of here alive though. :)

[herb ox]

That's not fat on my belly... It's my Qi! :D

[mickey]

And speaking of urrb....:D

I have also observed a youthfulness amongst those who smoke marijuana. It may have to do with the additional free radical scavenging that increased melatonin production offers.


mickey

[herb ox]

Aww, you're just trying to stir the pot, mickey! :p


herb ox

[bawang]

And speaking of urrb....:D

I have also observed a youthfulness amongst those who smoke marijuana. It may have to do with the additional free radical scavenging that increased melatonin production offers.


mickey
smoking weed= lazy = no stress from work

[David Jamieson]

smoking weed= lazy = no stress from work

stereotype and untrue.

Like me thinking you're really good at math and will eat cats.

same/same

[bawang]

stereotype and untrue.

Like me thinking you're really good at math and will eat cats.

same/same

i have no problem with eating cats

[David Jamieson]

i have no problem with eating cats

I knew I probably shouldn't have said anything. lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's not fat, it's relaxed muscle.

Genetics certainly plays a key role.
People that were thing because of exercise will always gain weight the moment they can no longer exercise to the same degree.
Diet is an issue of course .
And some people are just "big boned" and as such are pre-disposed to a "husky built" regardless.

I think that performance is a far better indicator then the "look" of a particular MA.

Lets also not forget that not every culture values a "lean look" or a "6 pack".

The reality is that the human body does ONLY WHAT IT NEEDS to do and the more technical you are the more efficient you are the LESS EFFORT you will put into anything you do ( MA for example) which means that you will simply burn less fat as you get better.

[curenado]

smoking weed= lazy = no stress from work


Good think that. I take pleasure in such thinkers

I also get a real kick out of these, but for a whole different reason:
9443
"If the man is fat, it is because the woman think evil and must be stoned. New wife will be good and man not fat. Or get another"

[herb ox]

I agree with sanjuro_ronin - Skinny does not necessarily mean healthy... just as the big bodybuilders with huge muscles are often unhealthy as well... excesses breed disease. Moderation in all things - including moderation.

herb ox

[Jimbo]

True. There are many athletes who are physically fit for their sport, but are not healthy. Obesity isn't good, but IMO, being overly skinny isn't good, either. Unless maybe it's the natural shape of a particular individual. But some people are naturally husky and are fine.

All I know is that since I've lost the 30+ extra pounds I had gained, I look and, more importantly, *feel* a lot better.

[herb ox]

A study done in 2013 published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137) concluded that Body Mass Index between 30-35 (overweight but not obese) actually seemed to prevent premature death, compared to those who were underweight or morbidly obese.

So it seems a few extra pounds can actually help you live longer!

herb ox

[sanjuro_ronin]

IMO, the BMI has been one of the biggest jokes ever made up by the medical community.

[curenado]

IMO, the BMI has been one of the biggest jokes ever made up by the medical community.

But the ama was first.... :)

It's just too snowflake to generalize. Whatever you are, watch for the weaknesses of that and build if you will on the strengths.
When people start starving, the ama will publish on the virtues of "nutritional frugality" and be typical hose they are

[PalmStriker]

[QUOTE=herb ox;1283703]A study done in 2013 published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137) concluded that Body Mass Index between 30-35 (overweight but not obese) actually seemed to prevent premature death, compared to those who were underweight or morbidly obese.

So it seems a few extra pounds can actually help you live longer!
:) A new study also released lately says that not enough weight leads to more likeliness of dementia and Alzheimer's Syndrome. Here is a vid of a 60 year old man in great athletic shape. My own physique is dominated by massive forearms, thighs, and calves. (TCMA WingChun Build). After 60 you will appreciate the padding that can be attained by extra pounds to keep skin taunt on frame. Excellent diet is a plus. Gain some extra weight and let that weight strengthen new muscle mass as you trim down for mobility. I am only 8 lbs off my mark at present. 65 hour physical work week on my feet requires plenty of high nutrition+ a craft beer per day to unwind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-k3N2F4DHo

[Jimbo]

If extra weight were real protection against dementia/Alzheimer's, then the rates of that should be very low in the U.S. Because it's quite obvious that the majority of older Americans fall into the overweight but not obese category.

Many years ago, I did janitorial work for 6 months in a convalescent facility. A few of the residents were underweight, but the majority fell into the overweight but not obese category. They all had dementia to some degree of other, and their weight didn't seem to make a difference. I think a lot of things factor into it, among them a lack of mental stimulation.