Where did Baji/Piqua Quan originate

[JNA]

Which mountain, temple, or person did it come from?

"The Self Defense mentality" is one of escaping from a violent encounter unharmed. "The Warriors mentality" is one of taking out the enemy as quickly and efficient as possible- Ji Ji Ke (Ji Long feng). Which one do you have?

[Stranger]

Wu Zhong, a Chinese Muslim from Cang County, Hebei Province is apparently the first historically verifiable source of these two styles (Qing Dynasty). The original name of bajiquan was baziquan.

He was allegedly taught the arts by two wandering Taoist priests, Lai and Pi.

I don't get mad.
I get stabby.

[Daredevil]

Yep, that seems about right, though -- heh -- something about that story sounds fishy.

However, if I recall correctly (and I think I do), my teacher has mentioned something about the style being older and only having surfaced then, a tidbit transmitted within the lineage.

But you know how these things go .. who can be sure?

[Tainan Mantis]

named BAJI CHUEN verifies to the Ming dynasty the history of this style.
He quotes a well known book from the Ming called JI HSIAO HSING SHU. At that time the style was called bazi chuen, like Stranger said.

Unfortuneatly this Ming book hasn't yet been put down in English.
As for GM liu's book I'm not sure.

On a related note WUTAN in Taipei is publishing a new baji super book. It will have hundreds of pics of GM Liu doing all the baji forms and pigua forms.

One special point about baji is that it would appear as though it has been virtually unchanged since ancient times. This can't be proven, but it would appear so on seeing these forms.

[Mr. Nemo]

Tainan Mantis: Are you associated with wutan somehow?

[Richie]

I thought pi qua was a shaolin style

For traditional kung fu go to www.taishingpekkwar.com (http://www.taishingpekkwar.com)

[RAF]

In comparing GM Liu's baji with Wu Lianzhi, An Tian Rong (his book is in Chinese, same lineage as GM Liu, I believe, a VCD showing Ma Shen Da's student in Xian (or maybe his brothers, and Tony Chen's there is a difference in flavor and in forms. It is said that GM Liu learned his forms during the latter years of Li Shu Wen's life and they were modified.

My own teacher, Tony Yang, knows 12 xiao baji forms, however, the training is the same and there doesn't seem to be any advantage in knowing one over another. Beyond the training aspects of xiao baji, two man fighting form,the da qiang, and the kun wu sword with 2 levels of the baji sword, forms seem less important and the single moving postures like liu da kai, ba da zhao seem more important. All postures and forms of the basic system have two man fighting form component.

GM Liu's xiao baji book has been out for years but is difficult to find in the US. His neigong book and sword book are in Taiwan (I believe his wife had a revised version of the sword book put out recently) Recently we have found a paperback revised edition of his da baji book. All of these are in Chinese (Taiwan Chinese, old characters). One of the team trainers from the security recently put out 2 baji books and a pi gua book which can be ordered from Plum Publications (all around $8.95 to $10.00 but in Chinese).

There is a tape from the Taiwan group demonstrating the various forms of GM Liu's baji and it is worth having but is in Chinese.

In our system baji and pigua are intially treated separately in training. They produce different body type outcomes and jings. We teach a form called baji/pigua combination which employs postures from both forms, however, its only at the highest level of training that baji/pigua are integrated as technique into one posture. I've seen this demonstrated in two single moving forms and its like have the option of the two techniques in one form movement.

Looking forward to seeing the new book out with GM Liu's pictures.

[RAF]

Regarding its founding, the two monks were supposed to be failed revolutionaries and only disguised themselves as monks to avoid arrest.

Also there are some that believe xing yi came from baji or baji came from xing yi.

To my knowledge, none of this has been verified and its part of the baji/pigua mythology.