VTLille Training

[Sean66]

Hey, haven't posted in a long time and thought I'd share a small clip of some recent training sessions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt5F_olCxYo

[guy b.]

Hey, haven't posted in a long time and thought I'd share a small clip of some recent training sessions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt5F_olCxYo

I much prefer this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E029s7S-kqQ

I think good to see you moving in the direction of more reality with the inevitable grappling aspect of fighting. I also think you need to be careful to keep your wing chun as the main weapon rather than using it as a setup for grappling style attacks.

[guy b.]

Compare it to this and there is an element of structure not working when movement is more free and other fighter is not strictly ving tsun style:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x201cZlr20

[Frost]

Nice work Sean, like the tight cover defence, the transitions between striking and clinch, some good takedowns and the stand/get up up work from ground was excellent. Nice to see you have a big matted area to play with, looked sharp all round thanks for posting

[guy b.]

Nice work Sean, like the tight cover defence, the transitions between striking and clinch, some good takedowns and the stand/get up up work from ground was excellent. Nice to see you have a big matted area to play with, looked sharp all round thanks for posting

Yes, I agree, good jiu jitsu Sean.

[Sean66]

Thanks for the comments guys.

My goal now for the past couple of years has been to teach my students grappling and ground fighting basics in addition to the regular ving tsun curriculum. Thanks to Tim Cartmell's regular European workshops we've been able to develop drills that integrate some essential wrestling and jiu jitsu techniques into our work.

I do think that clinch fighting (and takedowns/throws from the clinch) is necessary to learn, and in our experience the agressieve forward pressure of ving tsun is great for entering into the clinch from striking. This has been a very successful strategy for us when fighting/sparring against guys from other styles. Some of my students have extensive judo backgrounds, and being able to connect strike-clinch-throw into one seamless thread comes more natural for them.

Luckily we get to use the big tatami at the city's dojo once a week to practice this stuff. Banging around on the wooden floors of our other training area was getting a little painful :-)

[Frost]

Yep when someone actually uses mats you know they are taking their fight training (and not just ground work) seriously I think that was the only criticism I had on your original sparring clips, cant make it here and its great to see
And anyone who things that a close range striking style isn’t going to hit the clinch regularly and often doesn’t really spar at all and really doesn’t test themselves outside their style as your guys are doing
Its not just the aggressive forward movement that makes for a good entry, its also that hitting someone at that range leads to clinching as a matter of course

[Sean66]

Its not just the aggressive forward movement that makes for a good entry, its also that hitting someone at that range leads to clinching as a matter of course.

+1 Frost, amazing that so many people deny this.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The only critique I can level at you is that you are coming up he middle far too much.
I think you need to do more angling when you are in close.
It will allow you to deal with avoiding the clinch and allow you to do more "wing chun", if you know what I mean.

[Sean66]

Thanks for the critique, I agree wholeheartedly.

Creating angles is something we work on all the time. Primarily cutting off lines of attack diagonally, but also pivoting out, slipping, etc.
However, it's really, really difficult against somone with experience who is also simultaneously attempting to create angles of their own.

Of course, this is the subtle chess game of fighting in the ring/cage. Earning that angle through superior strategy and movement is what makes it exciting!

[Frost]

+1 Frost, amazing that so many people deny this.

Its because some people wont step outside of their school to cross hands, let alone outside their system, so they end up training against a mirror image of themselves and get fooled into thinking that what they are doing is real wing Chun and real fighting when the reality couldn't be further from the truth if two people are trained the same way and playing the same game with the same rules you can fool yourself into thinking pretty much anything.....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Its because some people wont step outside of their school to cross hands, let alone outside their system, so they end up training against a mirror image of themselves and get fooled into thinking that what they are doing is real wing Chun and real fighting when the reality couldn't be further from the truth if two people are trained the same way and playing the same game with the same rules you can fool yourself into thinking pretty much anything.....


Much truth in this.

[YouKnowWho]

I think you need to do more angling when you are in close.

Not sure I understand what you are talking about here.

I like to move in when my back foot and both of my opponent's feet are on a straight line. But sometime, that's not possible.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not sure I understand what you are talking about here.

I like to move in when my back foot and both of my opponent's feet are on a straight line. But sometime, that's not possible.

To many WC guys think that by centerlines it means they have to be in the centerline of their opponent, so they go "up the middle".
When in reality all centerline systems are about OUR centerline, not the opponents.
So when I speak of angling I mean to put our centerline in a way that that we can hit our opponent with all limbs and he can't.

[JPinAZ]

To many WC guys think that by centerlines it means they have to be in the centerline of their opponent, so they go "up the middle".
When in reality all centerline systems are about OUR centerline, not the opponents.
So when I speak of angling I mean to put our centerline in a way that that we can hit our opponent with all limbs and he can't.

While I agree that a lot of WC people have the bad habit of charging up the middle, I see centerline as a lot more than just your own centerline.

I'd agree that your own centerline and gravity are a very important first step and essential to having proper WC structure and efficiency. But in WC it is then important to also understand WC's A-to-B centerline, which is crucial to WC facing concepts as well as lining up on our opponent in bai jong for engagement - all of which are key to WC's maximum efficiency & economy of motion ideas. IMO it's what makes us unuiqe to most other arts.

I also see how centerline principles go further than that once we are bridged. This involves understanding how to identify and balance the various angles, leverage points and energies that go on between you and your opponent's COG's thru the bridge contact point. In my lineage we call this the B-A-B chi sau centerline.

[wckf92]

To many WC guys think that by centerlines it means they have to be in the centerline of their opponent, so they go "up the middle".

Sadly, this is true. WC is so much more than this lineal approach. (IMHO of course)


So when I speak of angling I mean to put our centerline in a way that that we can hit our opponent with all limbs and he can't.

Yep! Exactly! Well said sir.

[anerlich]

I think these clips show a good training environment and some good, solid training. Props for hooking up with Tim Cartmell.