Why do you study, pratice or train in your art, style or combat sport?

[truewrestler]

Choose the best answer:

[anerlich]

I can't make a choice there, both answers apply.

[joedoe]

*sarcasm mode on*

Because I like the flashy moves

*sarcasm mode off*

Seriously though, because I enjoy it.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[wushu chik]

Because, it best suits me!

I am ALWAYS Kung Fu Fighting.....what about you?

[truewrestler]

AbMan, sorry, just choose the best answer =)

The most important part of any hobby is that you're having fun and/or gaining some satisfation from it, or else why do it? Excluding reasons like "The Army made me" or the like, "my mommy made me", and "I'm tired of being picked on" =)

Although there will always be comparisons between styles, what remains the same is we enjoy them and that is why we stick with them (until we get beat up and then switch to a mix of wrestling, bjj, muay Thai, and boxing) =)

Now lets get in the octagon and find out whose style is the best =) No eye gouging, groin stikes or fish hooking...what? All the KungFu guys dropped out? They say their style is too deadly and at the same time too limited by the rules? =) lol

[Xebsball]

I choose becose it works the reason is that if it was for fun, i'd probably have just as much fun in any other martial art.

"Now lets get in the octagon and find out whose style is the best =) No eye gouging, groin stikes or fish hooking...what? All the KungFu guys dropped out? They say their style is too deadly and at the same time too limited by the rules? =) lol"

What the **** are you talking about?
What are your intentions with this thread?
Is this another one of those MMA vs Kung Fu **** or are you just kidding.

----------------------------
You brake my elbow i put your face in s.hit! HA HA HA, how about that, HA HA!
http://www.systemofadown.com/images/blurb3.jpg

[truewrestler]

haha, dude settle down...i'm not going to reveal the dark conspiracy just yet =)

My intention was to make people think about the poll "Why do you study, pratice or train in your art, style or combat sport?" Did it work?

[scotty1]

We already know. This is something we think about all the time.

[Colin]

I took up kung fu to impress girls,
Inflate my EGO!
And to learn how to kick ass.
All of which were successful!

I now practice kung fu daily to maintain the higher level of fitness & health i've gained from my training, but also to impress the cute chic that lives next door!

Some things never change............

CT.

[JWTAYLOR]

I enjoy it becuase it works so well.
JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Jaguar Wong]

This is a complicated issue, and it seems that some will take offense to the question, but I would just like to say that I practice my art strictly because I enjoy it. Whether it works or not will be determined when I have to use it. I'm doing my best to make sure the training will be there for me when that time comes, however. The things that I stress personally in my style/training is the ability to apply techniques, meaning drilling the basics over and over (and over) again, until I use them without having to "ponder" the situation.

I drill constantly to perfect things like issuing power (My Fa Jing sucks, but hey, that's why I'm drilling it), alignment (to prevent being off balance, or causing a wrist, knee, or ankle injury when delivering full power strikes), balance, agility, and all that other crap. I've "played" with quite a few non-trained people, and they tend to vary wildly in the technique department, but my basics have served me pretty well, only because they were ingrained (somewhat), and I'm always looking for skilled partners to push me to perfect my skills.

Now that I'm slowly getting back into training more often, It's also helping with my overall health, and crap like that. Plus I'm learning new things that I can use like more Chin Na, more grappling and anti grappling techniques, and most of all, how to use what I know within those new environments (I've got a multitude of strikes I can use from the knee on stomach, or even in someone's guard, now that I understand the principles behind them).

Also, When the martial "revolution" hit, I didn't run right out to learn BJJ, nor did I abandon my style because it wasn't bringing home the title belts. What I did do was take a long hard look at my training and personal goals. What I decided was to take a personal journey (my own JKD if you will), and my Sifu has backed my brother and I all the way. The basics of any good solid style will always be more than enough to serve you well, but all I'm doing is to expose my "basics" to other styles, and either incorporating their "basics", or blending the two in order to make it easier for me (ex. It's much easier for me to use well placed strikes to pass a lesser skilled guard than it is for me to use BJJ's methods. Until I get better at my basics in groundfighting, I'll continue to use the positioning I learned in BJJ to deliver the strikes I learned in Shaolin).

Jaguar Wong
The 6th Deadly Venom!

Jaguar's Wife (To "Judo" Gene Lebell): "Excuse me, my friend (Tigerstyle) wants to know if we can take a picture of you choking him."
Gene LeBell (in a gravely voice): "If he don't mind, I don't mind."
- actual event from DragonFest 1999

[KC Elbows]

My mommy made me... :D

[truewrestler]

great post Jag.

I took Isshinryu Karate for about 6 months at the college I used to attend. Eventually I felt like I was wasting my time. I felt more confident with my fighting skills when I was just a highschool wrestler than a yellow belt in Isshinryu.

I wasn't enjoying it very much either because there was no competition aspect. We would just punch or kick in the air or pads. I quit just before we were to start sparring or should I say point sparring(which the head instructor hadn't allowed for years but was going to try, maybe he thought katas were the key). It looked completely useless. I would rather have payed $200 for full body padding and go all out than just tap.

Also, Isshinryu karate teaches you to retract your punch faster than you sent it out. The analogy of a whip is used, which is Booolsheit if you were born with a brain that can think logically! When a student's gi snapped loudly my instructor would compliment the person. Yes...we will scare off our attackers now.

I had little faith in the style because of the emphasis on retracting punches faster than you throw them. It wasn't taught in my dojo but was a pinciple(or should I say theory) that the art was founded on. My instructors, although black belts, didn't seem competent in fighting. I felt like I could take everyone of them to the ground and they wouldn't be able to get backup with out saying uncle.

Someone might say that I should have stayed in it for 6 more years to learn the basics or get good, well....NO.

I did take a ballet class a couple semesters later(seriously i did, but just because I was short on credits) and learned balance and the kicks were actually really similar to Isshinryu.

I told my instructor that I was going to start jiu-jitsu. I went to three intro classes but decided that the 45min commute and lack of money could be a problem =) Needless to say, I didn't go back to karate and learn some great strikes playing pingpong all day.

I'm not downing karate in gereral. There are some bad bad men out there but they are in Holland and Japan =) Kyoshkin(if that is how its spelled) is cool because there is real fighting to develop the art.

[truewrestler]

****, do i ramble or what..

lol @ KC =)

[Starchaser107]

I enjoy it , it works , but i suppose anything can work if you apply yourself to it and train hard

Kung Fu is superior

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Some of the Sh!t that you guys spew. un-friken-belivable :rolleyes:

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson

[shaolinboxer]

Gosh Johnny, that was so insightful and specific.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Does it need to be ? Read the thread.

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson

[truewrestler]

his name is "Johnny Hot Shot", should we take anything he says seriously?

[Sharky]

yes, yes you should.


*sighs*

=================================
What we really need is chicks with a whole new kinda orifice - Fish

Sharky, I should expect this level of immaturity from you after seeing your post titled "Hm." regarding the woman that lives next door to you. I think everyone who unfortuneatly read that post is a bit more ignorant now for doing so. - Spectre

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

My profile is for real not just for show.

Hey I may be a ***** online but I'm really a nice guy.

I take MA very seriously and when someone says that after learning for 6 months they could see a style like Isshin Ryu "I had little faith in the style because of the emphasis on retracting punches faster than you throw them." Please :rolleyes:

Try playing with a good Jujitsu player.

Once again Thanks sharky, Cheers mate

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson

[truewrestler]

you have your opinions, I have mine. My #1 reason for not staying was I wasn't enjoying it. I wasn't getting any college credits for learning katas so I just stopped, and joined a ballet class a couple semesters later. ;)

"Try playing with a good Jujitsu player"

I don't get it? Please rephrase your question...?

If I had stayed with Isshinryu I might have gotten good at pointfighting, but that's not my thing. I felt, and still do, that it was a waste of time.

<font size=1>I take MA very seriously and when someone says that after learning for 6 months they could see a style like Isshin Ryu "I had little faith in the style because of the emphasis on retracting punches faster than you throw them." Please</font>

umm...ok...you're welcome. What is wrong with my comment? We spent almost an entire class on a drill where you slowing uppercut and then yank down real quick which was supposed to give our punches more power. Something about leaving the strike's energy in the recipient and not in you. A reference to swinging a baseball bat into the ground was made. If you trying to just swing it will vibrate in your hands and up into your arms. However if you are a master at Isshinryu Karate then you retract the bat on impact and the energy is supposedly left in the ground. Well, my bat smelt like boooolsheaat!

Oh, and I could snap my gi real good, does that mean I was talented and should have stayed in?

By the way. A couple years later I joined a jiu-jitsu school. Jiu-Jitsu=I enjoy/It works...Isshinryu Karate=I don't enjoy/Might work if you live in Holland but I live in Virginia.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Your have your right to your opinion if your not having fun your not having fun.

I may be wrong but don't most strikers try to achieve a snap in there strike?

Counter balance. With a fast retraction you are not only avoiding the grasp of an Akidoka or a Ju-Jitsu practitioner but your extending strike will be that much faster/powerful. That's the theory anyway.

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson

[truewrestler]

wow, Some of the Sh!t that you guys spew. un-friken-belivable!!! You are joking right? Its the exact opposite!!!

Why would a snap make something more powerful?

The example of a whip(which I know you didn't bring up but I would like to address) is rediculous as a representation of a punch. When you swing a whip towards a target think of it as being in the shape of a U with one side being the handle and the other being the tip of the whip. If you swing a whip and then pull on the handle you are just shortening the side of the U with the tip. This allows the tip to accelerate faster than otherwise possible but pulling on the handle. The bend in the U is kind of like a pully, oh nevermind there are other physics involved but that their is da basicks.

In Tennis you are taught to follow through, baseball pitchers are taught to follow through, in kickball you follow through, in hockey you follow through(except in punching but come on...they have skates on ;))...when you swing a hammer you follow through, quarterbacks are taught to follow through, when you tackle in football you are taught to follow through. I just can't think of anytime snapping is used for power.

HOLD UP....POINT FIGHTING IS THE ONLY SPORT ON EARTH THAT YOU AREN'T TAUGHT TO FOLLOW THROUGH!!!Is this because power is not important?Interesting subject for conversation don't you think?

"I may be wrong but don't most strikers try to achieve a snap in there strike?"

Striking arts deal with rebounding. If you take a bat and swing it in the air or hit a baseball your bat continues along your original path and tries to continue around, and then you can bring it back to a ready position. Now hit something that doesn't give...like a tree...wow, now you can retract your bat right back to your ready position.

***Concerning jiu-jitsu...what type of jiu-jitsu are you speaking of? I will assume a form of japanese jiu-jitsu since the art of Aikido was included in the same sentence. Strange that you didn't mention wrestling or judo...arts that are generally considered THE takedown styles. Are you worried an Aikido catch your punch?

Many fighters will be more cautious or conservative with their strikes in MMA. They simply don't follow through as far. The #1 defense against a takedown is takedown defense. Strikers good at the sprawl(ie. Silva) can let their strikes fly a little more freely.

<font size=6 color="red">LOL @ "That's the theory anyway." !!!!!!</font>

Johnny Hot Shot, no hard feelings. I'm sure this conversation is frustrating for both of us and I don't want to debate it any longer.

The only fault I see in my instructors was following tradition with Katas, Point Sparring, Etc when we could have just thrown on some gear like any Muay Thai gym does and duke it out to gain experience and refine our techniques. This seems to be the difference between a good karate school and a bad karate school.

Good Night Fellas

[Ryu]

Honestly?

Protect people, protect myself.
Be able to have some skills necessary to keep loved ones safe. You can do that with guns and stuff too. I'm looking into that as well.

As far as the other reasons,
because I enjoy it, it's worked for me, and I like Asian culture anyway. Plus I like mental and spiritual discipline, etc.
All that kind of stuff. :)

Ryu

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/powell/123/Imagenes/kenshin.jpg

Rimpleback Pumpernickle Kez Kez Vuy Tranh Yanagasawa Fujikage Fistibuns....
the lost son of the Fistibuns clan...


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[This message was edited by Ryu on 11-30-01 at 12:12 AM.]

[scotty1]

There have been threads before on whether its better to snap or follow through. Do a search Truewrestler, i'm sure snap was the overall consensus. Like if you're working on the bag, you're not supposed to push it. See Tyson work the bag, it doesn't move, it just shudders on the chain (apparently.)

[scotty1]

sNAP FOR GENERAL damage, follow through to finish.
Otherwise you leave yourself too open to grabs etc.

[JWTAYLOR]

Truewrestler, you were taught WAY fu(king wrong. That baseball bat stuff was the dummest thing I've heard today, and I work with politicians.

Throw your hand our as fast as you can, pull it back as fast as you can. Sounds pretty simple to me. It also seems obvious to me that you shouldn't leave your arm out there any longer than it needs to be.

You should retract your punches, but you should also completely penetrate your target. It's easy to see what I'm talking about by watching a good striker work the bags (somebody posted a video of Silva working with a bag hodler a while back before a fight which shows this well.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Jaguar Wong]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jon Wayne Taylor:
That baseball bat stuff was the dummest thing I've heard today, and I work with politicians.
[/quote]

LOL!!

truewrestler,
I think many of us in here agree that perhaps the instruction you recived in Isshin ryu wasn't as good as it could have been (you yourself mention the same, though...since you don't live in the Netherlands and all :))

All good strikes should have some kind of snap at their apex. Otherwise it's just a push (or a pro wrestling clothesline :p). The boxer's jab, or hook are good examples of this. They don't fire them out and follow through, because offensively you want them to be sharp and quick, and defensively, you don't want to leave yourself open, because the other guy is snapping his punches out as well. Your analogy about the whip is a good example. You're looking at the wide exaggerated movement of a whip, and trying to compare that to how people say the body should move. That's just anatomically impossible (as you pointed out), but the theory behind it all still fits. A good strike will start from the ground (any boxing coach will tell you that), basically meaning you're pushing off, then the hips torque to give the upper body some momentum, then the shoulder and elbow follow, and finally the wrist/fist snaps the strike out. It's all there, it's just not exaggerated. You can't take the comparison so literally. :)

Even Muay Thai's famous roundhouse has a snap/whip at it's apex. Sure it follows through, but the way the hip is torqued to snap the leg through it's target is where the power comes from (it don't hurt that it's a rear leg strike either :)). After the snap, you don't may follow through but there was a snap in there. Not a total retracting of the leg like in your Karate days, unless the kick lands solidly of course.

Jaguar Wong
The 6th Deadly Venom!

Jaguar's Wife (To "Judo" Gene Lebell): "Excuse me, my friend (Tigerstyle) wants to know if we can take a picture of you choking him."
Gene LeBell (in a gravely voice): "If he don't mind, I don't mind."
- actual event from DragonFest 1999

[old jong]

Truewrestler, even if it's garbage to you Snapback WORKSIt is just some other way to achieve power.Follow trough works also and is easier to understand so why don't you do what you like and just try to respect other's ideas.
There are many ways to skin a cat. do you really think only your's is good?...

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[truewrestler]

I'll respond to these last posts later, I'm about to instal Windows XP Pro...wooohooo.

lol @ "do you really think only your's is good?..."

Yes, this is my idea and I'm applying for a patent as I type. ummm....no. I'm trying to prove the striking skills of world champion kickboxers, boxers, and other strikers using logic and analogies. Please do the same. Give me a real world example where if yanking back something quickly gives the previous forward impact more powerful...I can't...please enlighten me.

Thanks...later

[JWTAYLOR]

With all of this talk about yanking, I think I'm going to surf some "other" forums for a sec.
JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Like big brother is watching stick with 2K.

Seriously I'm glad I made you laugh with my statement. By the looks of your profile your pretty much a grappler except for boxing and your boxing instructor has you holding your punches out? No snap? Hmm


An example from my personal experience and hours of bag work when I hit the bag with a follow thruogh there is power and the bag moves quite a bit. It's hard to describe the difference but when I snap a strike the bag seems to move differently almost as if shock waves are resonating through it. My Sensei used to say that strike will hurt more later than it does initially.

I don't want to start an argument on the effectiveness ot the 1-3 inch punch but there seems to be one hell of a snap when performing these style of punches.

The Snap is somethig that I have been taught to do and Have practised for years. With out being able to articulate the exact physics behind the snap. Some styles rely soely on the snap to provide power.

You should try training with some good strikers. It's good to train with all types of MA anyways.

Good luck with XP. I hear that it tracks all installed software and licenses and registers them with Microsoft. Scary

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson

[apoweyn]

truewrestler,

the examples you gave of tennis and baseball deal with a target that gives. in fact, the ball is nothing but give. hitting an opponent is generally not analogous.

then there's throwing a hammer or performing a football tackle. well, you don't have a lot of choice with momentum on that count, do you? you can't pull a dive tackle.

in each of the cases you brought up, the objective was to propel the target (with the possible exception of the dive tackle). and if you don't snap a strike back, you may well achieve the same sort of propulsion. but in striking, that's not really the objective. i don't want to push my opponent backward, even if i do hurt him in the process. i want to throw something that's going to make him stay where he is AND make him feel like he just passed a live hand grenade.

i think you'll find that if you ask someone to hold an air shield for you and you try kicking it for a while with absolute follow through and then with some snapback in it, the latter will make the other person more miserable.

that said, it's important that the snapback occur at the right time. if you pull it too soon, then it really is just a tap. no good for anything but point fighting. but the idea is to penetrate the target and then retract. you want the force to be percussive without crossing the line into pushing.


stuart b.

[old jong]

Well...Useless discussions with some kid who know's it all.

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[Johnny Hot Shot]

He is a MMA

"Life's a great Adventure, Mate"
Jacko Jackson