Where are all you WC guys? [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

Vajramusti

02-02-2016, 09:59 AM

We got two knew or maybe old but new now people from Lam's and Leung's line who should post a lot more. Start some threads. And the regular contributes seem to have vacated. Shame.

Oh well, you guys take care if you are gone for good. New guys post please. Share your ideas and training methods please. Most of us appreciate it. I do anyway.

I'll probably be offline a few days. To much to do and at best read but even that seems unlikely at present. Have fun and take care.

Bill
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Lack of sufficient moderation, non informative and personal nonsense contributed to the decline -
perhaps with more moderation and decent contributions it may be revived.

Frost

02-02-2016, 10:40 AM

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Lack of sufficient moderation, non informative and personal nonsense contributed to the decline -
perhaps with more moderation and decent contributions it may be revived.
I'd argue it was the over moderation of the site in general and the bans handed out a few years ago that killed this place, add to that PBs crowd went deadly quiet after Kevins chi sao clip went viral and this place was doomed lol

sanjuro_ronin

02-02-2016, 12:43 PM

I'd argue it was the over moderation of the site in general and the bans handed out a few years ago that killed this place, add to that PBs crowd went deadly quiet after Kevins chi sao clip went viral and this place was doomed lol

What clip ?

Frost

02-02-2016, 01:28 PM

What clip ?

Remember this one, was a whole thread about it after which Kevin and the rest disappeared
https://youtu.be/UnehZy1sJSc

To be fair there's a clip of pb owning Shaun in chi sao out there, but Kevins skill in that clip was, well didn't match his words shall we say

YouKnowWho

02-02-2016, 01:58 PM

Remember this one, was a whole thread about it after which Kevin and the rest disappeared
https://youtu.be/UnehZy1sJSc

To be fair there's a clip of pb owning Shaun in chi sao out there, but Kevins skill in that clip was, well didn't match his words shall we say

Look on that clip again, I still can't tell whether both guys are trying to play the striking game or the grappling game. If they try to play the

- striking game, I don't see fist flying. When one guy uses left hand to press down his opponent's right arm, his opponent's right arm can spin, and hook (or hay-maker) at the other's head.

- grappling, I don't see clinching. Both are trying to push the other guy away instead of pulling the other guy in.

I don't understand the purpose of that clip at all.

Frost

02-02-2016, 02:21 PM

Look on that clip again, I still can't tell whether both guys are trying to play the striking game or the grappling game. If they try to play the

- striking game, I don't see fist flying. When one guy uses left hand to press down his opponent's right arm, his opponent's right arm can spin, and hook (or hay-maker) at the other's head.

- grappling, I don't see clinching. Both are trying to push the other guy away instead of pulling the other guy in.

I don't understand the purpose of that clip at all.

Isn't that the problem with chi sao, no one can come to a conclusion as to what chi sao is for :D both seem to have a different idea about what was going on, but one thing was clear Kevin for all his talk came of worse whichever way you look at it, at least obasi was able to impose his idea of chi sao and Kevin couldn't do anything about it

sanjuro_ronin

02-02-2016, 02:23 PM

sanjuro_ronin

02-02-2016, 02:29 PM

It's chi sao, unless both are doing it the same way, it always looks like a cluster ****.
Probably the biggest overhype in WC is chi sao.
If WC practitioners would spend as much time actually sparring as they do doing chi sao, their skill level would rocket.

When I was at bullshido and attend a few of the throwdown they had in Toronto, I did some "chi sao" with a couple of guys.
When one of them tried it their way and punched me in the mouth, I slapped him silly like a red head step child.
Chi sao is NOT about imposing oneself when you do it in training BUT when you touch hands and the other guy acts like a bit of an ass, you hand him just that, his ass.
One imagines what WSL would have done if some guy tried to play chi sao with him and decided to get heavy handed...

Frost

02-02-2016, 02:42 PM

It's chi sao, unless both are doing it the same way, it always looks like a cluster ****.
Probably the biggest overhype in WC is chi sao.
If WC practitioners would spend as much time actually sparring as they do doing chi sao, their skill level would rocket.
Yep but then it wouldn't look like wing chun and they might actually get hit occasionally and have to work hard

YouKnowWho

02-02-2016, 04:43 PM

The WC Chi Shou has the same issue as the Taiji push hand, it's so easy to be interrupted. If you

- grab on your opponent's wrist, the Chi Shou game is over and the grappling game will start.
- spin your arm into a hook punch (or hay-maker) when your opponent uses forward pressure, the Chi Shou game is over and the striking game will start.

It may make sense to train Chi Shou for the sake of training (to develop arm sensitivity). It makes no sense to use it as part of the fighting.

LFJ

02-03-2016, 07:39 AM

Isn't that the problem with chi sao, no one can come to a conclusion as to what chi sao is for :D both seem to have a different idea about what was going on, but one thing was clear Kevin for all his talk came of worse whichever way you look at it, at least obasi was able to impose his idea of chi sao and Kevin couldn't do anything about it

Actually, they met up to exchange ideas and this was Obasi showing his after Kevin shared some drills and he insisted. Kevin wasn't even trying to defend or counter attack at all, obvious given the many opportunities. All he did was passively try to roll and allow Obasi to show him his method. Obvious if you look at it.

At the end Kevin said "this isn't our chi-sau" which shows they were just comparing ideas, not "fighting" or whatever uninformed people assume or imagine was going on.

Obasi then uploaded it as a "challenge match" apparently to make himself look good. Stupid because Kevin doesn't even believe in competitive chi-sau so wouldn't have been involved in such a thing.

But honestly, against someone not even defending at all, Obasi just showed how lousy he is, almost falling on his face all by himself. Kevin did fine maintaining his stance and balance given the fact that he wasn't supposed to be defending or counter attacking at all, and Obasi is younger and physically much stronger.

sanjuro_ronin

02-03-2016, 07:39 AM

Yep but then it wouldn't look like wing chun and they might actually get hit occasionally and have to work hard

I really don't think it is that.
I think that because many practitioners do NOT like to fight that many teachers have passed off chi sao as all that is need ( along with some drills).
People get really good a chi sao and don't like doing hard sparring.
I know that it isn't a common phenomena in BJJ BUt I do know of a few guys that just roll ( only ground work) and don't like to spar or anything that takes them outside their comfort zone.
What happens is that we get so good and enjoy being good at a safe and limited skill set that we simply choose not to believe that we need to actually get hit and hit in training.
It isn't just WC either, I know many a kyokushin guy that can't fight with head shots as well as they can without so all they focus on is no-headshots sparring and then make themselves believe that it is enough.

sanjuro_ronin

02-03-2016, 07:41 AM

Actually, they met up to exchange ideas and this was Obasi showing his after Kevin shared some drills and he insisted. Kevin wasn't even trying to defend or counter attack at all, obvious given the many opportunities. All he did was passively try to roll and allow Obasi to show him his method. Obvious if you look at it.

At the end Kevin said "this isn't our chi-sau" which shows they were just comparing ideas, not "fighting" or whatever uninformed people assume or imagine was going on.

Obasi then uploaded it as a "challenge match" apparently to make himself look good. Stupid because Kevin doesn't even believe in competitive chi-sau so wouldn't have been involved in such a thing.

But honestly, against someone not even defending at all, Obasi just showed how lousy he is, almost falling on his face all by himself. Kevin did fine maintaining his stance and balance given the fact that he wasn't supposed to be defending or counter attacking at all, and Obasi is younger and physically much stronger.

I can tell you this, not too long ago what Obasi did would have been greeted with a "demonstration" of what WC really is.
Just saying.
This isn't a slight against kevin per say, just that when ANY MA touches hands with another there is ALWAYS a possibility of it becoming a real fight and EVERY MA must be aware and prepared for such.

Frost

02-03-2016, 07:48 AM

I can tell you this, not too long ago what Obasi did would have been greeted with a "demonstration" of what WC really is.
Just saying.
This isn't a slight against kevin per say, just that when ANY MA touches hands with another there is ALWAYS a possibility of it becoming a real fight and EVERY MA must be aware and prepared for such.
Yep that's just excuse making, Kevin made comments about Sean's wing chun, Shaun called him on it and Kevin couldn't do anything other than defend badly, if kevin thought it wasnt going to be a forceful exchange after the things said between the two and adter seeing seans other clips he must be a bit silly

Also if Shauns wing chun is that bad what does it say about Kevins? Or put it another way if they had fought properly does anyone really doubt what would have happened to Kevin??

Frost

02-03-2016, 07:52 AM

LFJ

02-03-2016, 08:21 AM

Yep that's just excuse making, Kevin made comments about Sean's wing chun, Shaun called him on it and Kevin couldn't do anything other than defend badly, if kevin thought it wasnt going to be a forceful exchange after the things said between the two and adter seeing seans other clips he must be a bit silly

Also if Shauns wing chun is that bad what does it say about Kevins? Or put it another way if they had fought properly does anyone really doubt what would have happened to Kevin??

Why is Shaun sticking up for Sean? Can't Sean handle his own business?

"couldn't do anything other than defend badly"... Interesting. Where did you see defense at all? There's only a passive attempt to roll and allow Obasi to show his method.

And with Obasi not controlling space much and there being many opportunities for counter attack, what exactly was there to stop Kevin or render him unable to do anything else? It's obvious he wasn't intending to.

I know it's fun to jump on the clip given Kevin's talk here, but if you are informed about what was going on that day, and well, just look at it unbiasedly, it's obvious Kevin was being completely passive as it was Obasi's turn to show his ideas.

Kevin appeared not to have sensed hostility because Obasi was fine while Kevin showed him some drills beforehand. Kevin thought they were all good afterward too. But Obasi had some sort of grudge and decided to post it as a "challenge match" apparently to make himself look good (failed). And that's really all there is to it. Uninformed people make judgements while not even knowing what they're looking at.

-N-

02-03-2016, 08:30 AM

What happens is that we get so good and enjoy being good at a safe and limited skill set that we simply choose not to believe that we need to actually get hit and hit in training.

This could be posted in so many threads here.

Frost

02-03-2016, 08:50 AM

Why is Shaun sticking up for Sean? Can't Sean handle his own business?

"couldn't do anything other than defend badly"... Interesting. Where did you see defense at all? There's only a passive attempt to roll and allow Obasi to show his method.

And with Obasi not controlling space much and there being many opportunities for counter attack, what exactly was there to stop Kevin or render him unable to do anything else? It's obvious he wasn't intending to.

I know it's fun to jump on the clip given Kevin's talk here, but if you are informed about what was going on that day, and well, just look at it unbiasedly, it's obvious Kevin was being completely passive as it was Obasi's turn to show his ideas.

Kevin appeared not to have sensed hostility because Obasi was fine while Kevin showed him some drills beforehand. Kevin thought they were all good afterward too. But Obasi had some sort of grudge and decided to post it as a "challenge match" apparently to make himself look good (failed). And that's really all there is to it. Uninformed people make judgements while not even knowing what they're looking at.

Oh of course i don't know what was going on or what I'm looking at, didn't tha used to be Kevins line? No one understood what he was talking about as no one understood the proper wing chun... Nice to see you carrying on his tradition

of course this argument would have more ground if the clip hadn't been posted before, and pulled apart by people with much more experience in wing chun than you or I
:rolleyes:
its also telling that the only people to stick up for Kevin in that clip come from the same line of wing chun as he does, keep denying everything it worked last time

LFJ

02-03-2016, 08:59 AM

Oh of course i don't know what was going on or what I'm looking at, didn't tha used to be Kevins line? No one understood what he was talking about as no one understood the proper wing chun... Nice to see you carrying on his tradition

Didn't say anything about your understanding of WC. Just the circumstances of the clip.

of course this argument would have more ground if the clip hadn't been posted before, and pulled apart by people with much more experience in wing chun than you or I

Who?

What's my experience?

Jimbo

02-03-2016, 09:19 AM

I really don't think it is that.
I think that because many practitioners do NOT like to fight that many teachers have passed off chi sao as all that is need ( along with some drills).
People get really good a chi sao and don't like doing hard sparring.
I know that it isn't a common phenomena in BJJ BUt I do know of a few guys that just roll ( only ground work) and don't like to spar or anything that takes them outside their comfort zone.
What happens is that we get so good and enjoy being good at a safe and limited skill set that we simply choose not to believe that we need to actually get hit and hit in training.
It isn't just WC either, I know many a kyokushin guy that can't fight with head shots as well as they can without so all they focus on is no-headshots sparring and then make themselves believe that it is enough.

Very true.

I might also add that along with a comfort zone comes the concept of 'face'. Quite frankly, many MAists who become attached to a particular style (any style), whether teachers or advanced students, are afraid of possibly looking (or feeling) bad against people and methods they are unfamiliar with. They don't want to be embarrassed by discovering something they've devoted their lives to and advocate to others, or their way of doing it, doesn't work as advertised when faced with the unknown.

When I was a kid, my Kenpo teacher never accepted complacency, in himself or his students. There were always other people and groups invited or showing up for anything up to hard sparring...other Kenpo/Kajukenbo groups; boxers, pro kickboxers, TKD/TSD guys, a Shotokan group. I even remember one time a Buk Siu Lum (Northern Shaolin) guy who came to spar. Sometimes even people off the street. He would spar or fight anyone. Of course, the latter would probably never happen now, but my teacher's openness heavily influenced my views on MA. I remember my teacher once got a black eye sparring a very good female black belt from another Kenpo group, and considered it no big deal.

My second Mantis teacher and my CLF sifu were of the same mindset, which is why I consider these 3 my true teachers. I thank my lucky stars I had teachers who were open-minded and not afraid of new experiences for themselves and their students, i.e., pressure testing their arts/methods.

Without this type of focus, *at least* during the developmental period as a MAist, IMO it's easy to fall into the trap of becoming "style-centric". Obsessing and arguing over whether this or that block (or whatever technique) is perfect or off by 1/8". It then becomes easy to forget what these arts were supposedly developed for in the first place.

sanjuro_ronin

02-03-2016, 10:15 AM

But then those bjj guys probably don't care about anything other than bjj as a sport, as long as they aren't passing off what they are doing as fighting or self defence I can't see a problem, bit like if I ask my judo coach if what we are doing is self defence, he most likely will scratch his head and say we are doing judo a sport??

But if you are passing off your wing chun as a fighting art, as a self defence art and all you do is chi sao, then there is a problem

That is Correct.

sanjuro_ronin

02-03-2016, 10:23 AM

Very true.

I might also add that along with a comfort zone comes the concept of 'face'. Quite frankly, many MAists who become attached to a particular style (any style), whether teachers or advanced students, are afraid of possibly looking (or feeling) bad against people and methods they are unfamiliar with. They don't want to be embarrassed by discovering something they've devoted their lives to and advocate to others, or their way of doing it, doesn't work as advertised when faced with the unknown.

When I was a kid, my Kenpo teacher never accepted complacency, in himself or his students. There were always other people and groups invited or showing up for anything up to hard sparring...other Kenpo/Kajukenbo groups; boxers, pro kickboxers, TKD/TSD guys, a Shotokan group. I even remember one time a Buk Siu Lum (Northern Shaolin) guy who came to spar. Sometimes even people off the street. He would spar or fight anyone. Of course, the latter would probably never happen now, but my teacher's openness heavily influenced my views on MA. I remember my teacher once got a black eye sparring a very good female black belt from another Kenpo group, and considered it no big deal.

My second Mantis teacher and my CLF sifu were of the same mindset, which is why I consider these 3 my true teachers. I thank my lucky stars I had teachers who were open-minded and not afraid of new experiences for themselves and their students, i.e., pressure testing their arts/methods.

Without this type of focus, *at least* during the developmental period as a MAist, IMO it's easy to fall into the trap of becoming "style-centric". Obsessing and arguing over whether this or that block (or whatever technique) is perfect or off by 1/8". It then becomes easy to forget what these arts were supposedly developed for in the first place.

Every teacher I have had has had the "the door is always open" mindset.
I believe that after a time this needs to be passed on to the students of course and that they should be the ones dealing with these issue ( typically when the instructor is old enough to NOT have to fight anymore).

I know that nowadays people ate concerned about the legal ramifications of these things at times BUT the truth is that as martial artists we have a tradition to uphold, one of NOT backing down from challenges and one of representing our chosen MA as a FIGHTING MA.
The moment we can't do that, for whatever reason, it is time to step down and hand over the mantel of "fighter" to another.

There is no dishonour in this, I myself have done it ( though I am still open to crossing hands with whomever feels the need, I do so as MYSELF and not as any representative of any system).
The dishonour is in NOT representing our system and ourselves effectively.

YouKnowWho

02-03-2016, 12:31 PM

sanjuro_ronin

02-03-2016, 12:45 PM

In CMA, before you learn how to

- throw someone, you learn how to be thrown first.
- hit someone, you learn how to get hit first.

IMO, it makes no sense for a striking art to not learn "how to get hit".

I don't think it's that John, I think that chi sao, for whatever reason ( and anything I say would only be speculation) became an acceptable substitute for hard sparring.

When you think about the practical development of fighting skills the vast majority of time must be spent on actually fighting and direct-fighting related drills.
Chi sao is not that ( and never was and never was supposed to be).
It is a sensitivity drill on par with "clinch work" in MT, wrestling and boxing BUT different in the sense that it is developing the ability to "read" via bridging, something that arts that do not bridge can't grasp.
It MUST be developed, yes BUT it can NOT be developed at the expense of practical fighting skills.

bawang

02-07-2016, 01:33 AM

traditional kung fu had sparring gear made from bamboo cotton and rattan, and closest to padwork was target punching someone waving a cotton ball stick.

when some hobby lobby moron asks how kung fu dont spar because they had no modern sparring gear, the logical answer is that assumption is false, that is impossible, they must have sparred and used safety equipement. mystery problems in kung fu can always be solved with logic and occams razor principle

RisingCrane

02-07-2016, 08:51 AM

As usual Bawang is on point.
How frustrating it must be for some of the posters here-
Along comes a Chinese person (not the culturally generated fantasy) who thinks critically and argues with logic and reason.
He so obviously loves and respects the art without recourse to delusion and fairy tales.
When I think about the amount of cognitive dissonance that must cause here, it gives me hope. :)

GlennR

02-07-2016, 09:36 PM

Oh of course i don't know what was going on or what I'm looking at, didn't tha used to be Kevins line? No one understood what he was talking about as no one understood the proper wing chun... Nice to see you carrying on his tradition

of course this argument would have more ground if the clip hadn't been posted before, and pulled apart by people with much more experience in wing chun than you or I
:rolleyes:
its also telling that the only people to stick up for Kevin in that clip come from the same line of wing chun as he does, keep denying everything it worked last time

And we''re back!!!
Seems 2016 is 2001 all over again!!! ;)
Hey Frost, how have you been? Good i hope.

Yep, with you on the lineage driven defense of good old Kev, but hey, thats the WC way!

Getting past the whole Kev-Obassi death match, the original poster commented on where everyone has gone from this forum?
My guess is;
- They've moved on from WC (Thats me)
- They've moved on from this forum to go to another one
- Due to over moderation, and the subsequent "dulling down" of the forum, they've moved on (me as well)
- Theyre too old and couldnt be bothered in general anymore

Either way, this forum is done & dusted

All the best........... Glenn

Frost

02-08-2016, 05:15 AM

And we''re back!!!
Seems 2016 is 2001 all over again!!! ;)
Hey Frost, how have you been? Good i hope.

Yep, with you on the lineage driven defense of good old Kev, but hey, thats the WC way!

Getting past the whole Kev-Obassi death match, the original poster commented on where everyone has gone from this forum?
My guess is;
- They've moved on from WC (Thats me)
- They've moved on from this forum to go to another one
- Due to over moderation, and the subsequent "dulling down" of the forum, they've moved on (me as well)
- Theyre too old and couldnt be bothered in general anymore

Either way, this forum is done & dusted

All the best........... Glenn

Things do go round in a circle I will give you that Glenn :D

Im good thanks Glenn still training, have added a bit of strongman into the powerlifting and still training MMA/grappling and the Chinese stuff regularly , judo is hit and miss as that’s hard on the old body!

hope the boxing is going well

I agree with your thinking and assessment of this forum, shame as for all the arguments it used to be a fun place to come and spend a few hours

mun hung

02-08-2016, 04:39 PM

Been off for a while because of the "same old same old" conversations. Don't know what to make of that video. It's not the way I was taught sticky hands. It looked more like a shoving match with very bad form. Looks more like "dirty hands" y What can you learn from an exercise like that? Like my SiFu always says "who's going to stick hands with you in the street?" SMH

On the upside, I've never stopped training and opened up a school in my neighborhood. Going pretty well so far.

I always felt that people spent too much time on this forum talking and not training. Was I wrong?

GlennR

02-08-2016, 07:06 PM

Things do go round in a circle I will give you that Glenn :D

Im good thanks Glenn still training, have added a bit of strongman into the powerlifting and still training MMA/grappling and the Chinese stuff regularly , judo is hit and miss as that’s hard on the old body!

hope the boxing is going well

I agree with your thinking and assessment of this forum, shame as for all the arguments it used to be a fun place to come and spend a few hours

Boxing is sort of going well!?!?n the upside, im coaching now and have two fights for two wins which is more fulfilling than i would have thought.
Bloody nerve racking though!

On the downside, i dislocated my elbow sparring in preparation for a fight in November. And yes, it did hurt
Lost a lot of fitness and building the arm back up now, so my goal is a big Masters Tournament in July for myself on top of training 3-5 fighters.

Yeh, pity about the forum losing its "flavour"...... it was bloody hilarious here sometimes!! ;)

Glad the training is going well and im with you on the "old body"!

Frost

02-09-2016, 08:09 AM

Boxing is sort of going well!?!?n the upside, im coaching now and have two fights for two wins which is more fulfilling than i would have thought.
Bloody nerve racking though!

On the downside, i dislocated my elbow sparring in preparation for a fight in November. And yes, it did hurt
Lost a lot of fitness and building the arm back up now, so my goal is a big Masters Tournament in July for myself on top of training 3-5 fighters.

Yeh, pity about the forum losing its "flavour"...... it was bloody hilarious here sometimes!! ;)

Glad the training is going well and im with you on the "old body"!

Well done on the boxing wins, :) someone in the wing chun family actually fighting..!! shame you no longer train wing chun lol they could have claimed the victory for the style!

Any sports competition is nerve wrecking, let alone one where your opponent is trying to knock you out lol

guy b.

02-09-2016, 09:49 AM

bawang

02-09-2016, 03:38 PM

shaun obassi was one of the best wing chun practitioners ever. the wing chun world did not deserve him

guy b.

02-09-2016, 04:19 PM

shaun obassi was one of the best wing chun practitioners ever. the wing chun world did not deserve him

Has he passed away? RIP Obassi

mun hung

02-09-2016, 09:51 PM

shaun obassi was one of the best wing chun practitioners ever. the wing chun world did not deserve him

I'm curious. What makes him one of the best?

Frost

02-10-2016, 04:05 AM

I'm curious. What makes him one of the best?

probably because he actually fought and has a real fight record and not a made up one lol

Frost

02-10-2016, 04:07 AM

Kevin thought it was chi sau. Chi sau is non competitive.

Kevin was dense then, because every other chi sao clip from Obassi was competitive and with what they had exchanged on facebook he should have expected this

Not to mention when he realised it wasn't couldn't do anything about it other than retreat and get hit

But we have been over this over and over, some see it for what it is, others (usually from the same lineage as Kevin) see it as something different

guy b.

02-10-2016, 02:18 PM

Kevin was dense then, because every other chi sao clip from Obassi was competitive and with what they had exchanged on facebook he should have expected this

Not to mention when he realised it wasn't couldn't do anything about it other than retreat and get hit

But we have been over this over and over, some see it for what it is, others (usually from the same lineage as Kevin) see it as something different

I don't think Kev ever realised it was not chu sau. If Obasi was assaulting Kev then probably Kev would have expected to have been punched in the face repeatedly. I think Kev just thought "very different chi sau" throughout. He even says something like "this isn't our chi sau" towards the end of the clip. Looks like he always thought chi sau and he always tried to chi sau.

If this was an attempt at a physical attack by Obasi then it is incredibly poor. Awful even, given how much younger than Kevin he is. I don't see how Kev looks bad in this, unless you are incredibly biased.

guy b.

02-10-2016, 02:19 PM

probably because he actually fought and has a real fight record and not a made up one lol

Bawang is joking. RIP Obasi

LFJ

02-10-2016, 11:35 PM

others (usually from the same lineage as Kevin) see it as something different

Perhaps because they bothered to ask Kevin what was actually going on, rather than making uninformed assumptions about "what it is".

The fact is more than obvious if you view the clip without bias.

Kevin didn't even make an attempt to defend or counter because he wasn't supposed to.

He was respectfully allowing Obasi his turn to show his chi-sau method, after he (Kevin) had already shared some of the drills his lineage does.

If that is not obvious to you, you might be biased.

BPWT..

03-02-2016, 12:47 AM

If that is not obvious to you, you might be biased.

To be sure, there is some biased thinking going on here. :eek: And more than a little revisionism, from some. There was a huge thread about this video clip at the time, and it was clear to pretty much everyone what was happening, and why.

Following that clip being put on Youtube...

Kevin posted on this forum to say that Obasi had 'pushed him to his limits' in their exchange
Kevin then stopped posting entirely on this forum
We learned that Kevin's teacher, PB, was not happy with Kevin's performance
We learned that Kevin had, at that point, only met PB on three occasions over a 7 year period
Pretty much all of Kevin's fellow PB friends stopped posting on this forum
The video was also discussed on various German Wing Chun forums, with the same conclusion reached: Kevin was unable to handle Obasi.
PB himself, who loves to post on those forums, kept quiet and said nothing. ;)

It's strange that Kevin would publicly tell us all that he was 'pushed to his limits' during their exchange, if he was never actually meant to be defending or countering, LOL.

At least, apparently, that's the story being told today.

Everyone who watched that clip could see that Kevin struggled. Not an easy thing for some to swallow, especially for those who supported his numerous posts over the years when he told everyone that they were doing Wing Chun incorrectly, that their understanding was wrong, etc. etc.

The original poster asked why so many people had left this forum. A number of people left because it was impossible to have a sensible conversation without either a) PB/WSL lineage students insulting everyone and hijacking threads, or b) Hendrik Santo ruining threads with his spam about 1850.

There was even once a thread about improving the forum's standards via better moderation, etc., and a PB student actually trolled that very thread and wasn't banned for it :)

I popped back in the other day and was surprised to see that LFJ was still talking about this Kevin/Obasi clip, and still trying to convince people that Kevin did just great :D

LFJ

03-02-2016, 04:14 AM

Not sure about all of your bullet points there...

I recall KG commending SO on his strength, not conceding some sort of challenge match.

I popped back in the other day and was surprised to see that LFJ was still talking about this Kevin/Obasi clip, and still trying to convince people that Kevin did just great :D

People are still talking about it. I didn't bring it up.

Btw, did you ever get over to the PBVT school in your town, or are you still convincing yourself that LTWT is any good?

BPWT..

03-02-2016, 04:45 AM

Not sure about all of your bullet points there...

All of the points are correct. Some raised here, others raised on the German boards from people connected to those who train directly with PB, and none of it was disputed by PB or by Kevin, as far as I recall. That should tell you something.

Ask yourself this, when the clipped was uploaded and threads about it started, why would Kevin not say, "Hey, in this clip we rolled and Obasi attacked, but my role was to deliberately NOT defend or counterattack."

Why wouldn't Kevin qualify it? Instead, his response was to commend Obasi in a single sentence, and to then leave the forum for good. I think the answer is obvious.

....are you still convincing yourself that LTWT is any good?

:rolleyes: I see that, even after all these years, you still can't keep on point. This thread and the topic of Kevin's Chi Sau has nothing to do with LTWT (neither Kevin or Obasi train in LTWT)... but nice attempt to misdirect.

Frost

03-02-2016, 04:46 AM

To be sure, there is some biased thinking going on here. :eek: And more than a little revisionism, from some. There was a huge thread about this video clip at the time, and it was clear to pretty much everyone what was happening, and why.

Following that clip being put on Youtube...

Kevin posted on this forum to say that Obasi had 'pushed him to his limits' in their exchange
Kevin then stopped posting entirely on this forum
We learned that Kevin's teacher, PB, was not happy with Kevin's performance
We learned that Kevin had, at that point, only met PB on three occasions over a 7 year period
Pretty much all of Kevin's fellow PB friends stopped posting on this forum
The video was also discussed on various German Wing Chun forums, with the same conclusion reached: Kevin was unable to handle Obasi.
PB himself, who loves to post on those forums, kept quiet and said nothing. ;)

It's strange that Kevin would publicly tell us all that he was 'pushed to his limits' during their exchange, if he was never actually meant to be defending or countering, LOL.

At least, apparently, that's the story being told today.

Everyone who watched that clip could see that Kevin struggled. Not an easy thing for some to swallow, especially for those who supported his numerous posts over the years when he told everyone that they were doing Wing Chun incorrectly, that their understanding was wrong, etc. etc.

The original poster asked why so many people had left this forum. A number of people left because it was impossible to have a sensible conversation without either a) PB/WSL lineage students insulting everyone and hijacking threads, or b) Hendrik Santo ruining threads with his spam about 1850.

There was even once a thread about improving the forum's standards via better moderation, etc., and a PB student actually trolled that very thread and wasn't banned for it :)

I popped back in the other day and was surprised to see that LFJ was still talking about this Kevin/Obasi clip, and still trying to convince people that Kevin did just great :D

love it, thanks :):cool::p

sanjuro_ronin

03-02-2016, 07:14 AM

Some complain that the forum was too moderated while others complained that it wasn't enough.
Typical.
MA love to fight, even if it is only by words.
The reality is that this forum was probably the least moderated of all the forums.
It has way too many "armchair warriors" and people that believe that a person can be a fighter without ever actually fighting.
They believe that drills and demos of applications is the same as actually fighting someone that is trying to knock your head off.
The forum is a bit dead in terms of activity by too many people got sand in their vaginas.

BPWT..

03-02-2016, 07:36 AM

Agreed. I find it hard to believe that anyone would claim this Wing Chun forum was 'over' moderated :D

LFJ

03-02-2016, 07:44 AM

Why wouldn't Kevin qualify it? Instead, his response was to commend Obasi in a single sentence, and to then leave the forum for good. I think the answer is obvious.

That's why you didn't just send him a message and ask, right?

With all the bias and people having already decided to see what they wanted to see, and that still being the case years later, he stopped caring.

:rolleyes: I see that, even after all these years, you still can't keep on point. This thread and the topic of Kevin's Chi Sau has nothing to do with LTWT (neither Kevin or Obasi train in LTWT)... but nice attempt to misdirect.

You're one of the "WC guys" that used to post here. Just trying to catch up. Guess you never went down the street?

BPWT..

03-02-2016, 08:28 AM

That's why you didn't just send him a message and ask, right? With all the bias and people having already decided to see what they wanted to see, and that still being the case years later, he stopped caring.

Riiiight.... so a guy who posted so much, telling so many they had WCK all mixed up, just stopped caring and didn't want to explain why he was 'deliberately' letting someone hit him and throw him around?

Does it not seem more likely that Kevin simply had no way of explaining away his bad performance under pressure? Or maybe, as was suggested elsewhere, PB told him to train more and talk less cr@p about others.

You're one of the "WC guys" that used to post here. Just trying to catch up. Guess you never went down the street?

Oh, it was just a friendly question? :rolleyes: That's why you dropped in a line about whether I am 'still convinced LTWT is any good'?

I think it is more that you'd like to somehow make this about LTWT, rather than stick to the topic - Obasi and Kevin. None of this (why people left the forum, or Obasi and Kevin doing Chi Sau) has anything to do with LTWT (which is good) or PBWSLVT (which is also good).

Kevin's performance was not good. Can you remember the other clip also posted in the past (Kevin doing a drill with PB in the US)? The clue to his problem facing Obasi was evident there, too.