PDA

View Full Version : " Is Wing Chun a Fighting Style ? "



PalmStriker
03-01-2016, 11:30 AM
:) Interesting Question ? http://www.wingchunillustrated.com/2013/05/17/danny-xuan-wing-chun-is-not-a-fighting-style/

PalmStriker
03-01-2016, 11:38 AM
:) My answer: Some lineages are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEe7abUn_90

bawang
03-01-2016, 07:32 PM
wing chun is a simple and effective gangster kung fu style but wing chun science is a cult

PalmStriker
03-01-2016, 11:32 PM
:) Excellent answer.

Cataphract
03-02-2016, 04:34 AM
German special forces seem to think it is. Basic hand to hand is Krav Maga. KSK and GSG9 do Wing Tsun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY2VBP4miEI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUKLC9ZM5zg

Frost
03-02-2016, 04:44 AM
Well the vast majority of wing chun clips are either
a) Solo drilling
b) Compliant partner drilling
c) Chis sao slap happy stuff

You rarely see
a) Hard sparring
b) Wing chun fighting other styles
And when you do see the above (actual wing chun fighting and sparring)
a) People claim its not real wing chun and doesn’t look like wing chun should look
Does that sound like a fighting style to you?

sanjuro_ronin
03-02-2016, 07:10 AM
wing chun is a simple and effective gangster kung fu style but wing chun science is a cult

Bawang has bong sao'd the correct.

Hendrik
03-02-2016, 07:47 AM
Obviously he doesn't understand Wck to know what is what and how things works instead stuck in his own philosophical speculation

http://youtu.be/AEtPpxMKvMc

http://youtu.be/cWtEUzhJWnw

JPinAZ
03-02-2016, 08:31 AM
Obviously he doesn't understand Wck to know what is what and how things works instead stuck in his own philosophical speculation


And then immediately after making this statement included clips of himself proving he falls into the exact same category... oh the irony! lol

PalmStriker
03-02-2016, 09:30 AM
:) Open hand WingChun right off the Red Boats was used by highly respected Imperial Marshalls to apprehend criminals at large. A very good reason such an effective (fast hands) art would be appreciated/embraced by gangster Triads. http://yunhoiwingchun.com.au/articles/general/the-imperial-marshalls

PalmStriker
03-02-2016, 09:47 AM
:) Although Weapons were more abundant in the WingChun Arsenal back in the day (skill in using darts by the Imperial Marshalls ) even in the Master Yik Kam lineage an assortment of weapons were used (not focusing on knives or poles). http://ykwc.blogspot.com/p/the-history-of-yip-kin-wing-chun.html

boxerbilly
03-02-2016, 12:23 PM
German special forces seem to think it is. Basic hand to hand is Krav Maga. KSK and GSG9 do Wing Tsun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY2VBP4miEI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUKLC9ZM5zg

Are they still using this ?

Cataphract
03-02-2016, 02:31 PM
Are they still using this ?

Yes, afaik. KSK are using WT since 1990.

Frost
03-02-2016, 02:39 PM
I suspect they are more concerned with learning to shoot people than learning empty hand stuff, wing chun in Germany is a well organized well run business, but if this is what the German special forces training is like I'm glad they are normally armed and don't rely on this stuff too much
https://youtu.be/wgyn7CNhR40

And much like the seals trained in jkd, what they are forced to train by their superiors doesn't really make the system effective or efficient. Just that it's marketed well

YouKnowWho
03-02-2016, 02:50 PM
Why does he need to throw that many punches to knock his opponent down?

Should

- 1 good punch, or
- 1 good take down

be enough?

IMO there are different power generation and mind set between

- 1 knock out punch, and
- many fast continuous punches.

The power generation and mind set for

- 1 knock out punch is like to throw out a hand grade.
- many continuous punches is like to shot a lot of bullets from your machine gun.

In battle field, you will need both.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgyn7CNhR40&feature=youtu.be

boxerbilly
03-02-2016, 02:51 PM
I suspect they are more concerned with learning to shoot people than learning empty hand stuff, wing chun in Germany is a well organized well run business, but if this is what the German special forces training is like I'm glad they are normally armed and don't rely on this stuff too much
https://youtu.be/wgyn7CNhR40

And much like the seals trained in jkd, what they are forced to train by their superiors doesn't really make the system effective or efficient. Just that it's marketed well

Frost, I believe only Team 6 contracted Vunak. I may be wrong but Vunak may have been the longest contracted civilian instructor team 6 ever hired. But I do agree, H2H is pretty low on Special Forces needs. Im not sure it is even a official course or ever was. If you asked most of them they would tell you if you need H2H you did something wrong.


Thank you Cataphract .

boxerbilly
03-02-2016, 03:23 PM
I know nothing about German Special Forces or their training and function. I believe the other group is sort of like SWAT ? For the jobs they face they may rely more on it for arrest ? That's just a guess.

Cataphract
03-02-2016, 03:57 PM
Oh, I mixed that up. GSG9 uses WT since '90.

GSG9 are police like SWAT, hostage rescue and such. KSK are military. I have a statement from one of the instructors somewhere. He says that they use hand to hand combat in situations where lethal force would be excessive and potentially in close quarters, e.g. boarding missions.

boxerbilly
03-02-2016, 05:04 PM
Why does he need to throw that many punches to knock his opponent down?

Should

- 1 good punch, or
- 1 good take down

be enough?

IMO there are different power generation and mind set between

- 1 knock out punch, and
- many fast continuous punches.

The power generation and mind set for

- 1 knock out punch is like to throw out a hand grade.
- many continuous punches is like to shot a lot of bullets from your machine gun.

In battle field, you will need both.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgyn7CNhR40&feature=youtu.be


Hi John. Always a privilege when you post. I hope all has been well with you sir.

Thanks again, Cataphract .

boxerbilly
03-02-2016, 05:52 PM
John,

in your opinion sir, based on your experience and training. Which 1- punch and 1- throw would you focus on ? Assuming training time was limited.

John, for your heavy punch, what would be your preferred target?

YouKnowWho
03-02-2016, 06:18 PM
Which 1- punch and 1- throw would you focus on ? Assuming training time was limited.

John, for your heavy punch, what would be your preferred target?
For 1 punch, I will suggest the "hay-maker" to the back of the head. It's the best target to knock your opponent out/down by 1 strike. The 45 degree downward "hay-maker" can be used to deflect all straight line punches such as jab and cross. It's can be used for both offense and defense.

For 1 throw, I will suggest the Chinese version of "single leg". It's so simple, easy to learn, safe, and can be integrated into any MA system. If your opponent attacks you, his leg has to move close to you, if you are good at "single leg", the opportunity will always be there.

Both are nice "tools" to have in your toolbox no matter which style that you may train. Again, my suggestion only apply if you (general YOU) believe in "toolbox" approach. If you believe in "pure MA system", you can just ignore this suggestion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot4bEe6-i8E

boxerbilly
03-02-2016, 07:13 PM
Thank you John.

John, have you yourself streamlined the arts you studied ?

It is clear you are talking about effective self defense or offense depending on ones belief of when to move. Sadly and maybe that has changed now, not something that was taught me and most of my contemporaries in the different places any of us trained.

Thankfully I had boxing and please everyone, I am not trying to be disrespectful of any art. Just, I had to take techniques and add to the boxing because as was taught TKD- Isshin Ryu and Kempo seldom even presented. Got together with like minded guys and we did our best to work it out.

I love the arts. Just about all of them. It is not my lifestyle as some of you have chosen. You are serious about your arts and I highly respect that. I am serious about what the art can give to people quickly. Can we get them there fast. I hope that does not sound less serious than doing Sanchin for 50 years. Different objectives.

Please, anyone. If you had to your strip your art to what you really believe in, what would you keep ? Thanks.

Kellen Bassette
03-02-2016, 07:32 PM
Please, anyone. If you had to your strip your art to what you really believe in, what would you keep ? Thanks.

Jab, cross, hook, haymaker,
Push kick, round kick, side kick, knee,
Hip toss, suplex, single leg, double leg,

boxerbilly
03-02-2016, 07:32 PM
Please, everyone will have a different idea. Some may in fact be more sound but that does not mean the individual presenting may not be capable of it himself.

This stuff deteriorates quickly on the board to well basically. You suck dude! I'll blast through your defense and kill your momma. Your teacher must suck. My tan lines are better than yours. This is the only real way to tango. One guy wants the science. The next says science sucks.

So what really goes on his one says you have horrible this or that and the next thing that happens is everyone jumps in for a group beat down. We kicked his ass good and proper. I showed him. F--k that. That's is what really sucks. Let stuff grow and develop. Christ sakes you guys are teachers, teach so your students want to learn from you and really we all learn for each other.

I know, Billy your a fu-ktard. Not kung fu, go home bi-tch boy. We just want to crush everyone. That's what I mostly see.

boxerbilly
03-02-2016, 09:02 PM
Deja Vu. Later guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

LFJ
03-02-2016, 11:12 PM
German special forces seem to think it is. Basic hand to hand is Krav Maga. KSK and GSG9 do Wing Tsun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY2VBP4miEI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUKLC9ZM5zg

A student of Keith Kernschlecht?

This guy? :eek:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwdbAvmVIxE

Frost
03-03-2016, 04:52 AM
Frost, I believe only Team 6 contracted Vunak. I may be wrong but Vunak may have been the longest contracted civilian instructor team 6 ever hired. But I do agree, H2H is pretty low on Special Forces needs. Im not sure it is even a official course or ever was. If you asked most of them they would tell you if you need H2H you did something wrong.


Thank you Cataphract .

that maybe so, but seal team 6 has more operators that the whole of GSG9 so its still a good comparison

as with all these things its about perception, is wing chun actually taught to the whple of gsg9 as part induction training, or does someone come in and offer training ad hoc etc

i doubt we will ever know but if you are looking for a non lethal way to subdue someone an art which has no grappling, no chokes and no takedowns dooesnt seem the way to go

But then the German wing chun guys have always been good at marketing

Cataphract
03-03-2016, 07:37 AM
This guy? :eek:

The very same. The only alternative with a (much smaller but still notable) number of students in Germany is Philipp Bayer's Ving Tsun. Everyone else has studied under Kernspecht at some point. Emin Avci has been contracted, but KSK and GSG9 have their own instructors as well. There seems to be a discussion about switching to Jiu Jitsu.

sanjuro_ronin
03-03-2016, 08:54 AM
I will tell you what happens in the SPEC Ops community all over the world:
As soon as basic training is done, individual units ( or at times individuals themselves) seek out training on their own.
The following styles have some sort of history within the spec ops community:
Hapkido, Hwarang Do, TKD, Karate, Judo, BJJ, Krava Maga, WC, JKD, Kali/FMA, Boxing, Wrestling and probably more to be honest.

Jimbo
03-03-2016, 01:32 PM
Not SPEC OPS, but in Taiwan I was told that Baji was taught to the military for a while, but sometime in the 1970s(?) or so, a TKD breaking demo so impressed the military brass, they switched the training to TKD.

YouKnowWho
03-03-2016, 01:52 PM
This is how Chinese police train. Will you be able to tell which style this guy is doing? IMO, he trains the style of "combat".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsLkqwQrCS8

PalmStriker
03-14-2016, 12:50 PM
:) Ip Man Fighting Style: http://chinesemartialstudies.com/2016/03/14/chinese-martial-arts-in-the-news-march-14th-2016-ip-man-wing-chun-and-taijiquan/

PalmStriker
04-06-2016, 11:55 AM
:) 12 Seeds Wing Chun Fist : http://www.chineseshaolins.com/what-is-wing-chun.html

PalmStriker
04-06-2016, 03:18 PM
:) Kicking ART : http://www.wingchunkuen.com/sumnung/articles/article_casella01_kicks.html

PalmStriker
04-09-2016, 12:08 PM
Hakka TCMA Preservation 3D : http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education-community/article/1781167/kung-fu-archivist-hong-kong-seeks-unesco-listing

PalmStriker
04-17-2016, 06:47 PM
Comparison of Snake Crane WingChun and YKS "snakestyle" WingChun : (KFM reference)
ccwayne
ccwayne is offline Registered User

Join Date
Dec 2011
Posts
62

RedBoat related to the Tai Ping Heavenly Knigdom

Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
Thanks for sharing your info with us all here, as it's good to finally hear from people who still use these oldskool terms, let alone have a 'Mun' dedicated to the preservation of such methods from the Red Boats.

I just knew YKS lineage wasn't the only group today with strong links to the old Opera.

The Wing Chun Family Tree strengthens for Christmas 2011!!
Simply speaking, after the collapse of the Tai Ping Heavenly Kindom in the 1860s, a lot of rebellions, including RedBoat Opera, escape from persecution. Some were hiding, some were going to the South of China,(now Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore). That's why there is BaungChung Wing Chun(正旦金) in Malaysia and Singapore. 飛天馬騮派 in between China and Thailand, it is very like between Wing Chun and nowadays Thai's boxing. Fung Siu Ching was one of them, and he returned to GuangZhou meeting YuenKaiShan after the collape of Qing Dynasty. 'Snake Crane Wing Chun' is very closed to the YKS Wing Chun, now called GuangZhou Wing Chun. IN the Wikipedia about Wing Chun(Chinese version), they also bracketed a name beside called 'Snake Crane Wing Chun蛇鶴詠春'. You can also find a lot of old terms they used are exactly the old terms being used in Snake Crane Wing Chun, because both of them are from the same source 'Sun Kam', who is descended from ChiSin, Southern Shaolin. The Twin knieves, both they called them "YeeGeKimYeungDuMingDao', is different from other lineages. Also, the side stance, both they called 'GuyGinMa機剪馬'. Also, the 3 hand forms are very similiar.

In1980, the Chief Editor, Mr. Liu Kwong Wah, of the New Martial Hero Magazine, Hong Kong submitted an article saying there are five main lineages in Hong Kong to the Hong Kong Times Daily(香港時報). Snake Crane Wing Chun is one of them.
Since it keeps itself in very low profile, there are seldom people knowing its existence.

The above just very briefly discuss about the 'Sun Kam' lineage, which is also streaming down to YKS Wing Chun, then GuangZhow Wing Chun. The other lineages other than the source from Chi Sin or Sun Kam, they should be sourced from Ng Mui and other guardian monks, both they developed and picked up the skills. After the fire of Southern Shaolin, they escaped and scattered in the different of the China. That's why different tributries have their own styles.

PalmStriker
04-17-2016, 09:02 PM
Interesting how the Southern Shaolin Temple monk Chi Sin is credited with being the Original teaching Master of the Law family Wing Chun lineage as well as the same for the YKS Wing Chun lineage. But this is only apparent through the lineage records of the Tang Family of Weng Chun. Fung Sui Ching being the teaching Master in succession for the YKS and Tang lineages with Painted Face (Sun Kam) the teaching Master of all three lineages, which appear very similar in practices. (*Not to become confused with German "Weng Chun").

PalmStriker
04-25-2016, 11:12 AM
:) Applied Wing Chun : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4TSk-N_HSw

Hendrik
04-25-2016, 04:48 PM
:) Applied Wing Chun : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4TSk-N_HSw

Great video!