Gum Gong Kuen

[YeutYatChapChoy]

Hello list.
Haven't posted for a while. Busy, i guess.
Anyway, the form Gum Gong Keun (Sil Lum) and Gum Gong Tigerfork(CLF) has been translated as:
Gum Gong = 1. Diamond
2. Thunder God
3. Gold and Steel

In the martial arts that use the Gum Gong sets, and theree are quite a few (Lama, CLF, Hung Gar, Sil Lum) Which translation does your art use when using the words "gum/gong"??

YYCC

[Kung Lek]

my sifu teaches this set.

gum gong in context to the set he teaches is "gold and steel" (teet or tit or tid meaning iron or steel in the name of the set)

gum is the same as kam or "gold", gong has a thousand meanings...apparently :)

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[This message was edited by Kung Lek on 11-20-01 at 07:03 PM.]

[buddhapalm]

We have a set called Gum Gong Kuen. It is actually basically Bak Siulum Duan Da. It was a Northern Shaolin set taught in the South.

I dont know why we call it Gum Gong Kuen (not Duan Da), but I am doing my research. It has been called that in our system for over 40 years at least.

To us, Gum Gong is translated as Golden Steel or Gold and Steel. It implies unbreakable hardness.

Hope that is of interest.

[YeutYatChapChoy]

Yep, in our Hung Gar/Sil LUm the set is also referred to as Gold/Steel. In our CLF Tigerfork set it is Thunder God.
Just a question to see the other interpretations out there. Always great to get clairification.
Thanks for the input.
BTW: Puzzled about your duan dah set too. Pretty common set, in buk sil lum, and other northern systems, so usually the names stick pretty well to the well worn ones. Never seen it called anything but duan dah, although had a Sifu that referred to it as Buk Sil Lum #2. (Gung Li was #1, Duan Dah was #2).
YYCC

[Kung Lek]

Buddhapalm, are you learning the Bak Sing CLF of Tam Sam?
Because this style incorporated a few sets of Kyu Yu Cheong's into the style via exchanges of students between Tam Sam and Kyu Yu Cheong in the late 20's and 30's.
I am curious as to if they incorporated KYC's sets and then renamed them for that style of CLF.

Also am curious as to the flavour of Tun Ta after the incorporation.

I have also heard Tun Ta referred to as #1 in some styles because of the restructuring of the way the style NSL was taught where the shortest sets were taught first IE: Lien Bo Chuan, Tan Tui, then the core sets of 6,7,8-4,5-1,2,3,9,10, but that when KYC was taught the system he apparently learned it in the order of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 and later added Lien Bo Chuan and Tan Tui. with the system being a hybrid of ChaChuan (ZhaQuan) and Muslim Kung Fu, and various Gongs and Shaolin fundamentals. the weapons vary from teacher to teacher with emphasis on staff and broadsword being key weapons. although there are 40 different weapons sets, two man sets empty hand vs weapon, weapon vs. weapon and so on in the style of North Shaolin of Kyu Yu Cheong.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[buddhapalm]

Hi guys,
I was told by my late Sifu that our style was Northern Shaolin, then after some time I discovered that our forms had different names than the Bak Siu Lam of Ku Yu Cheung (Wing Lam etc). This had me curious as to which branch of Northen Shaolin we belonged.

In my research I looked into the possibility of it being Bak Sing Choy Lee Fut after I read about the meeting between Tam Sam and Ku Yu Cheung.

After researching more I found it was not related to Tam Sam. I discovered that my Dai Sigung was Sifu Ma who taught Bak Siulum, Northern Shaolin Lohan and perhaps other Northern styles in China before 1950. Sifu Ma was also related to the Ching Wu association so learned some things there also.

The flavor of our Gum Gong Kuen/Duan Da is about the same, except that we use some dynamic tension in the first couple of moves. I think that part was an alteration by my direct Sifu who was from Toi San.

I believe (but not completely verified on all) that my forms are a collection of Northern Shaolin Lohan and a Bak Siulum form. If anyone recognizes the names please let me know :

Lien Wan Kuen (Fut Gar of Leong Tin Chu)
Mang Fu Ha San (Fut Gar of Leong Tin Chu)
Er Lang San Kuen
Wu Song Breaks Handcuffs
Flower Fist
Gum Gong Kuen (Duan Da)
Dai Pang Kuen ( Big Roc/bird fist)
Kong Lan Kuen (Angry Waves Fist)
Fung Moh Kuen (Wind Demon Fist)
Dai Fut Jeung (Big Buddha Palm)

Moon Tooth Shovel
Clear Wind Kwan Dao
Three Peaks Trident..

Any assistance in my research is appreciated.

Cheers

Buddhapalm

[fiercest tiger]

can that mean golden bell?

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[denali]

Sorry, a gong is much bigger than a bell. It's louder too. Unless the bell is really big, then it might be louder than the gong. But they are still different.

[buddhapalm]

Sorry I forgot, in our system my Sigung used the translation of Golden Bowl Fist. Gong meaning some kind of bowl. My Sifu just said Gim Gong meant Golden Steel in the sense as unbreakable steel.

I am not sure but I believe I heard that the Monkey King used a magical staff called "Gum Gong Kwan" which was reputed to be unbreakable etc.

Buddhapalm

[Gum Gong]

In our school Gum Gong means Golden Power.We have 4 Gum gong kuens :Big Gum Gong,Four Elephant Fists,Golden Bill,Round 1.
They're all fighting kuens.

Jon Moore

[nospam]

Re: Bak Hsing CLF and Bak Sui Lum, the forms that were taught remained distinctive. Of course, over the years, this may have changed.

My lineage was taught Duan Da (form #6) from Bak Sui Lum along with iron palm training.

nospam.