Why no pivoting on heels or toes in fight scenes of Ip Man?

[WCFighter]

Hi everyone,

Just a sincere question.

In all the Donnie Yen ' Ip Man ' movies,
in the fights scenes, no wing chun master is
twisting on heels or toes, they pick up their feet.

Only when he is not fighting and practicing the dummy,
or right before butterfly sword fight, does he rub the tiles with his feet.

My lineage picks up our feet, and we don't twist on
our heels or toes.

I've never understood why people do this. If you
are wearing shoes with an excellent grip, and you do this,
don't you risk damaging your ankles and knees?

With a shiny floor, and slippers with no grip, I guess
people can get away with twisting, but on pavement,
sticky floors in bars, on the beach, and concrete, how is this practical?

No hate, just a question.

:)

[Sihing73]

Hello,

From your post I am assuming that you step and do not shift.
I believe that the main reason for shifting is that it can usually be done faster than stepping.

There are various reasons for the area used to shift, balls of feet, center or heels.

Finishing up work so would need to go into detail later.

[GeneChing]

Why no pivoting on heels or toes in fight scenes of Ip Man?
Because it's a movie (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?52218-Ip-Man-starring-Donnie-Yen). :rolleyes:

[WCFighter]

Thanks, Dave.

Why did the wing chun fight choreographer , from Ip Man lineage by the way, avoid actually displaying this type of shifting?

Is it only an occassional trick, under a classroom setting only...with slippery shoes and a shiny floor?

But impractical on the street?

[WCFighter]

I realize it's a movie.

They showed every other cool aspect of wing chun in the 3rd installment.

Are you saying that the fight scenes did a poor job of representing the techniques and efficiency
of wing chun?

I think they did a brilliant job including as
much as they could.

The choreographer is trained in the lineage
of one of Ip Man's sons (if i remember correctly)...so why no shifting?

On MMA mats, on wrestling mats, on pavement and
concrete... does the shifting (pivoting on heels or toes)
actually work...wearing shoes with a great grip, or do
you have to wear shoes with zero grip to make it
Work?

Thanks

[GeneChing]

Are you saying that the fight scenes did a poor job of representing the techniques and efficiency
of wing chun?


No. I'm saying it's a movie.

You can't read that much into movie choreography. It's a movie, not a documentary about how to do Wing Chun (http://www.martialartsmart.com/wing-chun-styles.html). A movie director works to move the story forward and increase dramatic effect. Showcasing every element of Wing Chun is not the objective.

[Sihing73]

I realize it's a movie.

The choreographer is trained in the lineage
of one of Ip Man's sons (if i remember correctly)...so why no shifting?

On MMA mats, on wrestling mats, on pavement and
concrete... does the shifting (pivoting on heels or toes)
actually work...wearing shoes with a great grip, or do
you have to wear shoes with zero grip to make it
Work?

Thanks

In most cases the purpose of any movie is to entertain.
So the more flashy and exaggerated a movement the better for the script.
When one shifts the movement can be very small and even if it works it would not appear that "dramatic".
This is just my opinion though but I honestly do not recall many movies which were realistic as regards fight scenes.
Although, I did like James Ryan in Kill and Kill Again as showing some simple and direct fights without all the usual flash.

As to whether or not shifting works and if you need a certain or special type of shoe;
Seriously???
My POV is that every system has someone who can make their approach work so there are those who can make shifting work.
If you required certain shoes for it to work on the street then that would kind of defeat the point, imho.

Environmental aspects are always a consideration.
You may find that shifting may be better if you are on ice or a slippery surface.
You would wear heavier clothes in one area and lighter in another. Both would have an effect on how you would fight.

My POV in a nutshell as regards shifting in a very simple and short explanation as to each approach:

Shifting on the balls of the feet will bring you closer to the opponent so you would move the target yet decrease distance. (I also believe that when shifting on the balls of the feet there is a tendency to raise the stance. While not a requirement I find many who shift on the balls do raise their stance which can be both good and bad depending on the persons level of skill).
Shifting on the center would essentially keep the distance the same or pretty close.
Shift on the heels would increase distance between you and the opponent.
Each has, in my opinion, its place in use.

Hope this is useful.

[WCFighter]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

I once had a person try a few classes, before joining, and he tried twisting his feet as he saw in a video on Youtube (not something we do in our lineage), and all I heard were cracks in his ankles and knees, and he was in total pain...his shoes had a perfect grip on the floor. His one attempt at a twist ended up damaging his ankles and knees... due largely to his shoes, and lack of knowledge on how to properly execute this twist.

So yes, in my eyes, shoe type seem to be a factor to the success of this maneuver.

I took White Crane and Karate before Wing Chun, and we picked up our feet. I've seen lots of other styles pick up their feet. Are there any styles other than wing chun that scrape against the floor while moving; it must've come from somewhere.

Or was it because shoes mainly had hard soles (tuxedo shoes), or clothe-like soles in the past, and practicioners on shiny floors came up with a neat trick they could perform on such a surface?




In most cases the purpose of any movie is to entertain.
So the more flashy and exaggerated a movement the better for the script.
When one shifts the movement can be very small and even if it works it would not appear that "dramatic".
This is just my opinion though but I honestly do not recall many movies which were realistic as regards fight scenes.
Although, I did like James Ryan in Kill and Kill Again as showing some simple and direct fights without all the usual flash.

As to whether or not shifting works and if you need a certain or special type of shoe;
Seriously???
My POV is that every system has someone who can make their approach work so there are those who can make shifting work.
If you required certain shoes for it to work on the street then that would kind of defeat the point, imho.

Environmental aspects are always a consideration.
You may find that shifting may be better if you are on ice or a slippery surface.
You would wear heavier clothes in one area and lighter in another. Both would have an effect on how you would fight.

My POV in a nutshell as regards shifting in a very simple and short explanation as to each approach:

Shifting on the balls of the feet will bring you closer to the opponent so you would move the target yet decrease distance. (I also believe that when shifting on the balls of the feet there is a tendency to raise the stance. While not a requirement I find many who shift on the balls do raise their stance which can be both good and bad depending on the persons level of skill).
Shifting on the center would essentially keep the distance the same or pretty close.
Shift on the heels would increase distance between you and the opponent.
Each has, in my opinion, its place in use.

Hope this is useful.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

The most common style which "glides" rather than lifts their feet that comes to mind is Judo.

All I can say is that I used to work in Law Enforcement fist in corrections then as a Housing Police Officer and PA State Trooper.
I will not claim to be an awesome street fighter with 300 or more wins :rolleyes:
However, I have had the opportunity to use what I was taught and can say it did well enough by me.

Having said that my approach now is more of a hybrid style as I also do Pekiti Tirsia, Malabar Silat and a bit of Hsing i.

[WCFighter]

Thanks for your response.

Awesome resumé!

Silat does look pretty cool.


Peace


Hello,

The most common style which "glides" rather than lifts their feet that comes to mind is Judo.

All I can say is that I used to work in Law Enforcement fist in corrections then as a Housing Police Officer and PA State Trooper.
I will not claim to be an awesome street fighter with 300 or more wins :rolleyes:
However, I have had the opportunity to use what I was taught and can say it did well enough by me.

Having said that my approach now is more of a hybrid style as I also do Pekiti Tirsia, Malabar Silat and a bit of Hsing i.

[Bino TWT]

There is a difference between stepping and shifting. I generally only need to shift do to incoming pressure. But I don't shift on my heels or my toes; I shift on the ball of my foot. Reason being, if you shift on your heels, it's easy to get knocked back. If you shift on your toes, you can be yanked forward. If you shift on the ball of your foot, you can root either front or back and remain stable if you encounter force mid-shift. And if you slow it down and look, I'm really shifting only one foot at a time, so one foot is always solidly rooted at all times.

As far as the movie goes, well... it's a movie.