Pushups

[Cataphract]

What kind of and how many pushups do you recommend?
I know trainers who let you do 100 (fast and minimal), others think 10 clean reps are enough.

The APFT perfect score is 77. So I guess that should be a good target.

I can do around 60 reps, 12 one armed on each side without time limit.
I still fail quite miserably at this. But not as miserable as I used to ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41N6bKO-NVI

[Jimbo]

I'm not sure if higher reps of push-ups are better than smaller sets or not. In the past, I could do up to 110 without stopping. This was back straight, going 'til the chest lightly touches the floor, then pushing back up all the way. NOT air-humping by bouncing up and down quickly going only partway down and only partway up, as many people do. The really high reps were standard push-ups on the palms.

You can also do fingertip or knuckle push-ups. Also, "cat" or dipping push-ups, that I saw wrestlers do. I used to also do thumb and forefinger push-ups (using two hands), but I stopped that because I wanted to strengthen ALL of my fingers. Leopard fist push-ups should be done on a surface with some give, like beach sand.

After several years of being unable to do push-ups due to a non-MA-related injury, I started doing them again earlier this year. I prefer the palms positioned much wider than shoulder width. I worked up gradually. These days I can do up to 85 or 90 nonstop, at a steady, even pace. But I normally settle for one set of 65 or 70, then another set of 25 or 35. It's not scientific. I use them mainly as a warm-down exercise after MA training, or during warm-ups on days I do some light weights or don't do MA practice. But not every workout, and usually no more than 4 days/week.

What I'd really like now is my own quality stand-alone pull-up bar.

[boxerbilly]

What I'd really like now is my own quality stand-alone pull-up bar.

You just need to buy it Jim. Simple as that !

[Cataphract]

I'm thinking of building one myself. There are some nifty designs on the net, but lately I've been doing pullups on a timber soccer goal. It's very hard on the forearms.

[Jimbo]

I want to make sure anything I buy will hold up over time, as well as be suitable for the inside of my house.

In my area is a bayside park with circuit training equipment set up at various points along a trail. There are some pull-up bars and dip bars at one station, and I use those on occasion. The city put them there. I'd like one of those setups in my backyard, but I'm afraid the neighborhood crows might hang out on it and worse, possibly crap on it.:eek:

The great thing about different types of pushups is you can do them anywhere without any equipment.

Edit to add:

Many years ago, there was a local homeless guy people called "Push-up Man" because he did 1,000 push-ups a day, every day. He was going to try out for a world record or something. Unfortunately, one day another homeless man kept on harassing him while he was trying to do his workout, and Push-up Man ended up going ballistic on him. I don't remember exactly what he did or how serious it was, but he went to prison for it.

[mickey]

Greetings,

A used Soloflex can allow for quite a few bodyweight exercises that can be found on those park circuit trails:

Chin ups

Pull ups

Dips

Sit ups/elevated Sit ups/ Upside down Sit ups

Leg Raises

Elevated pushups

Roman Chair Sit ups


And you can buy those Soloflexes dirt cheap. People are often dying to get rid of them. You can check your local craigs list or classified ads.

And if bird do is an issue, you can get a cover to throw over it.

mickey

[boxerbilly]

I have a doorway one mounted. Mid range model. 350lbs limit. So I am good there. Yep, there was some door frame damage.

So you have to choose. Cheap and lasts 2-3 years if used. Midrange and lasts 10+ if used maybe longer. Pro will outlast the user and the users kids.

All free standing units can not be used for swinging and stuff . They can tip. The bases are not large enough. Kipping is out for any cheap units and maybe some midrange ones.

If you are handy you can sink some 12' 4x4 posts and use plumbing pipe , floor flanges and lag screws like many park units. Yeah, the crows will crap on it, lol. But cheap and likely the most solid option.

[mickey]

If you are handy you can sink some 12' 4x4 posts and use plumbing pipe , floor flanges and lag screws like many park units. Yeah, the crows will crap on it, lol. But cheap and likely the most solid option.


Greetings,

This is a really good idea. And you can do other things with the posts.


mickey

[David Jamieson]

The lighter you are, the more you should be able to do without being completely fit. That applies to most all body weight workouts.

If you are overweight and unfit, you start with small numbers and work up.

Slow gradual progression is preferable and unavoidable when it comes to changing your body.

[sanjuro_ronin]

When you get over the 25 reps you really should look into making them harder since all you are really doing is developing muscular endurance to do more push ups.

Feel elevated, weighted vest, on handed push ups or rings will increase the difficulty and make doing push ups more then just doing push ups.

[SevenStar]

slow twitch muscle fibers are the power fibers. fast twitch fibers are for muscular endurance. when you work out in high rep ranges, you move outside of the realm of building musular size. Now, in terms or what you are working, close hand positions like diamond push upswork the triceps and the normal hand position works the chest. In addition to these variations, you have T push ups, hindu push ups, spiderman push ups, plyometric push ups, etc.

[Cataphract]

slow twitch muscle fibers are the power fibers. fast twitch fibers are for muscular endurance.
By common convention it is the other way round. It is laid out neatly in the book "Body by Science" which I can only recommend to everyone. They do something like 45-60 seconds under load until complete muscle failure once a week (or something like that, will look it up) for the big muscle groups. Thus every fiber group will be evenly stressed for hypertrophy in minimal time.


when you work out in high rep ranges, you move outside of the realm of building musular size.
I don't think that's entirely true, also from my own experience. Many if not most body builders do a lot of reps. There's the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy theory.

I've just added some endurance elements in my upper body training and it feels good and it seems to help in other areas as well. I don't know, but I just call it warmup.

[boxerbilly]

By common convention it is the other way round. It is laid out neatly in the book "Body by Science" which I can only recommend to everyone. They do something like 45-60 seconds under load until complete muscle failure once a week (or something like that, will look it up) for the big muscle groups. Thus every fiber group will be evenly stressed for hypertrophy in minimal time.


I don't think that's entirely true, also from my own experience. Many if not most body builders do a lot of reps. There's the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy theory.

I've just added some endurance elements in my upper body training and it feels good and it seems to help in other areas as well. I don't know, but I just call it warmup.

And......being one is doing higher reps that TUT sort of defaults. Of course there has to be at least some decent tension levels. I could rep out with 1lb weights and stay under tensions for a long time and likely not going to do a whole lot beside improve my ability to use 1lbs a long time.

Anyway, for size when I was concerned with that. 20-30 rep range worked best for me. Just used normal speed . And 6-10 sets. Half and partial reps make an apperence as the sets add up.

I myself am not a big fan of HIT or to failure approaches. But it does work well for some.

[SevenStar]

By common convention it is the other way round. It is laid out neatly in the book "Body by Science" which I can only recommend to everyone. They do something like 45-60 seconds under load until complete muscle failure once a week (or something like that, will look it up) for the big muscle groups. Thus every fiber group will be evenly stressed for hypertrophy in minimal time.


I don't think that's entirely true, also from my own experience. Many if not most body builders do a lot of reps. There's the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy theory.

I've just added some endurance elements in my upper body training and it feels good and it seems to help in other areas as well. I don't know, but I just call it warmup.

bodybuilders don't do high reps for size though. they do high reps for "definition". low reps, high weight = power. moderate reps, fairly heavy weight = size, high reps, low weight = endurance and to a bodybuilder, definition. That being said, I guess you would have to define high rep, as the rep range for size is typically 8 - 12. when I say high rep, I mean greater than 15, and 25 was mentioned earlier in regard to pushups. The muscles are stubborn and lazy - you have to force them to grow. when they are used to a weight, a rep range, etc. they happily maintain themselves there. when you add that extra weight, for example, that's when the muscles realize that something change and the response to that stimulation is growth. power is short bursts of strength - quick, powerful contractions. fatigue sets in quickly, preventing you from doing those activities for long. if you can perform a lift for 25 reps, the intensity isn't there.

as for the other, yes, I actually meant it the other way around. that's what happens when you reply to threads while trying not to curse out a mechanic.

[Scott R. Brown]

What I'd really like now is my own quality stand-alone pull-up bar.

IronMind Pullup Bar (http://www.ironmind.com/product-info/gym-equipment/home-training-systems/)

Here is what I have been using for nearly 10 years. It is very sturdy and strong. I weigh between 185# and 200# and have done chins with 100# with no problems and no bending. Give it a try. I don't have the aluminum one, i have the steel one.

[Scott R. Brown]

IronMind Pullup, Dip, Squat Rack (http://www.ironmind-store.com/Chinning-Bars/products/66/)

[Jimbo]

Thanks for the link, Scott!

How is the stability, and do you need to secure it to the floor or use sandbags, or does it balance in place?

[Scott R. Brown]

Thanks for the link, Scott!

How is the stability, and do you need to secure it to the floor or use sandbags, or does it balance in place?

It is very stable. You can actually do some light kipping if you need to and if you don't overdo it. I tend strongly towards strict pullups myself, but i have experimented with kipping to check the stability and I was very please with the stability. Also it is highly portable so you can take it to the park or on vacation and put it up in a motel room very easily. It is also adjustable 2" increments so you can let your kids do pullups or you can do hanging rows with your feet on a bench or chair.

It is unnecessary to secure the base to the floor.

[GeneChing]

pitch-black urine? yikes. :eek:


Ex-McKinley band member awarded $185,000 in push-up punishment case, jury decides (https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/courts/article_a2d52c36-bc4c-11e8-b7cd-0f72749778fe.html)
BY JOE GYAN JR. | JGYAN@THEADVOCATE.COM SEP 20, 2018 - 2:40 PM (5)

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/theadvocate.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/2b/32b9cae0-bb8b-11e8-9721-eb71175e7a43/5a8366357356a.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C840

A former McKinley High School student who spent five days in the hospital in 2014 after he was ordered to do 200 push-ups for being tardy to marching band practice was awarded $185,000 by a jury Thursday.

Tristen Rushing, now 20, and his mother, Melissa Rushing, had sued the East Baton Rouge Parish School Board in 2015, as well as McKinley High and the school's former volunteer assistant band director, Jason Jones, who ordered Rushing to perform the push-ups as punishment for being late.

An East Baton Rouge Parish jury also awarded $5,000 to Melissa Rushing on Thursday.

Sean ***an, the attorney for Tristen and Melissa Rushing, said the School Board is liable for the damages awarded to the Rushings.

“We’re going to sit down and evaluate it and decide how to proceed,” School Board attorney Domoine Rutledge said.

Tristen Rushing, who is now in college, said it was important for him to get his story out.

“For me it really was about getting justice. I really felt that the school system owed me my justice,” he said outside state District Judge William Morvant’s courtroom shortly after the judge read the verdict “This shouldn’t happen to any student.”

Melissa Rushing said the verdict gives her son some much-needed closure.

“I’m just glad he had his day in court. He’s a good kid. It greatly affected him and our family,” she said.

Melissa Rushing also said it is her hope that what happened to her son never happens to any other student.

“I wanted them to recognize it was a serious thing,” she said of the defendants in the suit.

Tristen Rushing said McKinley marching band members are no longer disciplined with push-ups, and physicals are required before a student can join the band.

Rushing was 16 when he was hospitalized for five days with muscle and kidney issues after the Oct. 28, 2014, incident involving the push-ups.

Rushing testified at the trial that his arms swelled so much that they resembled those of the cartoon character Popeye, and he said his urine turned "pitch-black."

Dr. Robert Chasuk treated Rushing at the hospital and testified that Rushing's damaged muscles released an "unheard of level" of enzymes into his system, which threatened his kidneys and his life if left untreated.

In his closing arguments to the jury Thursday, ***an said it was "extremely negligent" to order an unconditioned band member to perform anywhere close to 200 push-ups.

“We know he did so many that his muscle tissue started to die,” ***an said, arguing that ordering push-ups as punishment for being late to band practice violated the School Board’s policy prohibiting corporal punishment.

Carla Courtney, who represents the School Board and McKinley in the case, countered to the jury that School Board policy did not forbid push-ups.

“They didn’t physically do something to him. They had him do something physical. There’s a difference,” she argued. “Push-ups are not unreasonable.”

In his rebuttal closing argument, ***an responded to Courtney’s statement by saying, “They didn’t ask him to do push-ups. They ordered him to do push-ups.”

Courtney acknowledged that 200 push-ups is “a lot of push-ups” but questioned whether an unconditioned person could perform 200 push-ups in 15 minutes as Rushing claimed to have done. She also said the School Board is sorry for what happened to Rushing but argued that the risk of injury was not reasonably foreseeable.

“None of us wanted to see that young man go through that,” Jason Jones’ attorney, Anderson Dotson III, told the jury.

The jury awarded Tristen Rushing $10,000 for past medical expenses; $50,000 for past physical pain and suffering; $85,000 for past mental pain and suffering; $10,000 for future mental pain and suffering; and $30,000 for past loss of enjoyment of life.

[GeneChing]

... we had P.E. for push-up humiliation. Here's my public school tale. Until I hit my 50s, I always had decent push-up skills. But I've always been bad at ball sports like football, baseball, soccer, so the P.E. teacher had pigeon-holed me as an underachiever. When it came time for the Presidential Fitness challenge (or whatever that was called) I started to do the push-up section. They were chair push-ups, which were even easier for me, but that teacher DQ-ed me right away, saying it was a waste of time. I was so ****ed. Now that I think back on it, my P.E. teachers were mostly dicks, even the female one I had.


Teachers ordered fourth-grader to do pushups for talking in class. Was it appropriate? (http://themercury.com/tns/teachers-ordered-fourth-grader-to-do-pushups-for-talking-in/article_a3f79f51-1e28-52f7-8f89-8310df812cda.html)
The Fresno Bee Nov 4, 2018

FRESNO, Calif. — Shy and insecure, the fourth-grade student dropped to the floor of a classroom filled with students, ordered by a Fresno teacher to do pushups and other calisthenics for talking during a lesson.

Nearly three years after the incident, Fresno Unified teachers Michelle Coyne and Joshua Gehris are on trial in Fresno Superior Court, accused in a civil trial of humiliating the fourth-grader, a 9-year-old girl.

In opening statements of the trial, Fresno attorney Jason Helsel, who represents the girl and her mother, called Coyne and Gehris “bullies” for making the frightened girl do pushups, leg lifts and “planks” — an exercise in which a person uses his or her toes and elbows to remain off the ground.

As the girl was doing the exercises, students watched in silence, fearing they would be next to do pushups if they spoke out, Helsel told the jury.

Fresno attorney Bruce Berger, who is representing the Fresno Unified School District, Gehris and Coyne, however, told the jury that state law gives teachers wide discretion in disciplining students in order to manage the classroom.

“This case is not about bullying,” Berger said.

The trial in Judge Donald Black’s courtroom is expected to take two weeks. Testimony is expected to be highly charged — because in two days of jury selection potential jurors voiced strong feelings about today’s youth and discipline in schools.

Some of them said children today lack respect for teachers and need to be disciplined.

“A teacher’s job is hard enough,” one potential juror said. Other potential jurors recalled being disciplined in school decades ago — and said the mental scars remains with them today.

The girl is identified as Jane Doe in court papers. Now around 12 years old, she is expected to testify next week..

The incident happened Jan. 21, 2016, at Slater Elementary School near Shaw and Marks avenues in northwest Fresno. The girl and her mother are seeking damages for negligence, negligent training of Gehris and Coyne, and negligent infliction of emotional distress.

After the incident, Helsel said, the girl began seeing a therapist who diagnosed her with post-traumatic stress disorder and an anxiety disorder. Because of the incident, the girl’s emotions jump from sad and being withdrawn to angry with frequent outbursts, Helsel said.

But Berger said the district hired a doctor to examine the girl. The expert agreed the girl suffers from anxiety, but the disorder is not traced to the Jan. 21, 2016 incident, Berger said. The girl does not suffer from PTSD, Berger said, because she was not involved in a life-threatening episode.

Helsel told jurors the expert’s opinion is skewed — and that person was paid $20,000 to $30,000 to interview the girl for one hour, read reports about the incident, and write a report.

Coyne is a longtime Fresno Unified teacher, having spent nearly two decades at Slater Elementary School. Helsel said the girl was in Coyne’s classroom and liked her teacher. “Ms Coyne is good with kids,” Helsel said. “(The 9-year-old student) felt safe in her classroom. It was a good learning environment.”

Helsel said the girl didn’t know Gehris, a military veteran, because he was a first-time teacher when he got a job at Slater Elementary during the 2015-16 school year.

According to Berger, Gehris thought making students do calisthenics was a good way to keep them focus after the Christmas break. “A lot of these kids are sugared up and have extra energy,” Berger told the jury. The exercises “was a way to burn off the extra energy, not punishment,” he said.

Gehris had used the method on other students and no parents ever complained, Berger said.

Helsel, however, said the humiliation and fear the girl felt left her traumatized and emotionally withdrawn.

He also said it wasn’t even the girl’s fault that she had gotten into trouble in the first place, as Coyle put a student who was a troublemaker in the seat next to the plaintiff. When the classmate asked the girl for a pencil, Coyne saw the plaintiff talking and got upset, Helsel said. Coyne ordered the girl to Gehris’ classroom.

When the girl arrived at Gehris’ classroom, a student warned her that she would have to do pushups. With class in session, Gehris ordered the girl to get on the ground and start doing pushups, Helsel said.

The girl was confused, Helsel said, because she never had been to Gehris’ class before. Scared, the girl complied with Gehris’ order, the lawyer said.

Because the girl could not do pushups correctly, Gehris yelled at her. She then did pushups with her knees on the ground, Helsel said. After the pushups, the girl was ordered to do leg lifts, planks and other exercises, Helsel said.

“Gehris will say he made her do the exercises for five to seven minutes,” Helsel told the jury. “But to her, it felt like a lifetime.”

Once she completed her punishment, Helsel said, Gehris ordered the girl to apologize to Coyne, which the girl did.

That night, the girl told her mother what happened. The mother went to Slater Elementary and demanded that her daughter be removed from Coyne’s classroom and put in another classroom. Berger said school officials did just that.

Afterward, the girl’s mother contacted Fresno County Behavior Health to get help for her daughter.

[GeneChing]

Police: Nashville robbery victim attacked, forced to do push-ups (https://www.wkrn.com/news/police-nashville-robbery-victim-attacked-forced-to-do-push-ups/1758917789)
By: Josh Breslow
Posted: Feb 06, 2019 07:28 AM CST
Updated: Feb 06, 2019 09:55 AM CST

https://media.wkrn.com/nxs-wkrntv-media-us-east-1/photo/2019/02/06/ballard_1549468481361_71351989_ver1.0_640_360.jpg
Eric Ballard (Courtesy: Metro Nashville Police Department)

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WKRN) - A man was arrested in a bizarre attack and robbery Tuesday along West Trinity Lane.

Eric Ballard, 36, was charged with robbery shortly after the incident.

According to an arrest affidavit, Metro police were called to the intersection of Hampton Street and West Trinity Lane where the victim said a man punched him several times and made him do push-ups.

The suspect then told the victim "if he tried to pick up his bike" he would "shoot him in the head," court documents state.

The victim reportedly ran across the street to a restaurant to call police, as he saw the suspect grab his bike and leave.

Police noticed a man matching the description of the suspect riding a bike on Avondale Circle towards Brick Church Pike.

Ballard was taken into custody and was positively identified by the victim, police said.

A court appearance for Ballard was scheduled for Thursday. His bond was set at $5,000.

So I guess there is a practical application? :rolleyes:

[GeneChing]

Drop and give me 40 (https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/02/pushup-capacity-may-be-inexpensive-way-to-assess-cardiovascular-disease-risk/)

https://news.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/iStock-man-doing-pushups.jpg?resize=768,512
iStock
The ability to do 40-plus pushups can be a no-cost method to determine the risk of cardiovascular disease, according to a study from the Harvard Chan School.

Pushup capacity could be no-cost way to assess cardio risks
BY Amy Roeder
Harvard Chan School Communications
DATE February 15, 2019

Active, middle-aged men able to complete more than 40 pushups had a significantly lower risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD) outcomes — including diagnoses of coronary artery disease and major events such as heart failure — during 10 years of follow-up compared with those who were able to do fewer than 10 pushups during the baseline exam.

“Our findings provide evidence that pushup capacity could be an easy, no-cost method to help assess cardiovascular disease risk in almost any setting. Surprisingly, pushup capacity was more strongly associated with cardiovascular disease risk than the results of submaximal treadmill tests,” said first author Justin Yang, occupational medicine resident in the Department of Environmental Health at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

This study was published today in JAMA Network Open.

Objective assessments of physical fitness are considered strong predictors of health status; however, most current tools, such as treadmill tests, are too expensive and time-consuming to use during routine exams. This is the first known study to report an association between pushup capacity and subsequent cardiovascular disease outcomes.

The researchers analyzed health data from 1,104 active male firefighters collected from 2000 to 2010. Their mean age was 39.6 and mean body mass index (BMI) was 28.7. Participants’ pushup capacity and submaximal treadmill exercise tolerance were measured at the start of the study, and each man subsequently completed annual physical examinations and health and medical questionnaires.

During the 10-year study period, 37 CVD-related outcomes were reported. All but one occurred in men who completed 40 or fewer pushups during the baseline exam. The researchers calculated that men able to do more than 40 pushups had a 96 percent reduced risk of CVD events compared with those who were able to do fewer than 10 pushups. Push-up capacity was more strongly associated with lower incidence of cardiovascular disease events than was aerobic capacity as estimated by a submaximal treadmill exercise test.

Because the study population consisted of middle-aged, occupationally active men, the results may not be generalizable to women or to men of other ages or who are less active, note the authors.

“This study emphasizes the importance of physical fitness on health, and why clinicians should assess fitness during clinical encounters,” said senior author Stefanos Kales, professor in the Department of Environmental Health at Harvard Chan School and chief of occupational medicine at Cambridge Health Alliance.

Other Harvard Chan authors include Costas Christophi and Dorothee Baur.

The study was supported by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), Harvard Education and Research Center for Occupational Safety and Health training grant T42 0H008416 (Yang); the FEMA Assistance to Firefighters grants EMW-2006-FP-01493 and EMW-2009-FP-00835, and grants from the Department of Homeland Security (Kales).

I need to get back on my pushup regimen. I've been lagging due to some tendonitis. :o