Shuai Jiao

[Ka]

What do people think of this system?From what I have experienced they seem to intergrate throws and locks very well.

[Stranger]

Looks very effective and interesting to me.

I don't get mad.
I get stabby.

[JWTAYLOR]

Incredible art. Very effecive.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[PT-Kali]

How do you guys train? I mean other than sparring. Do you have fighting sets, forms, etc. Just curious about that....

[WanderingMonk]

Originally posted by PT-Kali
How do you guys train? I mean other than sparring. Do you have fighting sets, forms, etc. Just curious about that....

Obviously, you haven't seen these videos.

http://emptyflower.stanford.edu/johnwang1.html

watch vid 11-15. You can watch the other as well. but vid 11-15 holds the answers to your questions..

wm

[PT-Kali]

no, I haven't seen them, nor does it look like I will now, they're not working for me....

[WanderingMonk]

These are window media file. You can download window media player for both windows and mac. Goto microsoft's site for detail. If you are on other type of OS, then you are out of luck.

wm

[SevenStar]

drilling, apparatus training (pulley, rock pole, etc) sparring, stance training, forms...

[Toby]

Not out of luck with other OS's. I watched them using mplayer under Linux.

[backbreaker]

Wow , I hadn't seen those. Cool

[Mika]

Technically I should have started a new thread for this, but what I am asking is fairly close to this thread's topic.

In Finland - as far as I know, at least - there is no Shuai Jiao, so I cannot ask anybody in person nor can I go and observe myself. I have used the net, but these forums are always the best place to come to with a question like mine.

Some people say Shuai Jiao is closer to modern day Judo than any other well known martial art. In some sources, however, I have noticed references to ground fighting applications akin to BJJ and others.

So, my question is this: does Shiao Jiao include any ground fighting techniques?

Thanks :)

//mika

[Water Dragon]

Here's a 'typical' 2 hour training session for me.

1. Warm-up with body rotations
2. jog for about 20 minutes
3. cardio. This gets mixed up a lot, but it's basically a combo of wind sprints, form work(in 2 minute rounds), belt cracking, lifting your training partner, push ups, jumping jacks, squats, etc
4. falling. This is good to get in reps on the throws as well. If you do 5 throws * 20 reps, you've been thrown 100 times
5. strategy. pick an application and drill it. We use this with light to medium resistance
6. free wrasslin'
7. Cool down with stance work

[Mika]

(Whispering on tiptoes: okay, okay, I'll take my question and start a new thread...;) )

[PT-Kali]

I have seen a list of training forms, or whatever. Such as 13 Tai Po and 24 shadow drills, can anyone elaborate on those?

[MonkeySlap Too]

In classical Shuai Chiao there is no ground rolling or sacrifice techniques. The SJ attitude is to throw you down hard and stick a sharp object into you. It really was meant for battlefield training in that regard...

[Mika]

MonkeySlap, thanks for the answer :)

Now, you mentioned in classical SJ there is no ground work. Are there other types of SJ that would include ground techniques?

Thanks :)

//mika

[Unmatchable]

How old is Shui Chiao? I'm willing to bet it's really old but some site claimed GM Chang is the founder of modern Shui Chiao.

[WanderingMonk]

Depending on how far you want to go, generic shuai jiao, chinese wrestling, goes back to the dawn of the chinese civilization.

There are three major styles of Chinese Shuai Jiao today. Beijing, Tienjian, and Baoding.

Bejing - emphasize strength over techniques, heavily influence by Mongolian wrestling.
Tienjian - emphasize techniques over strength.
Baoding - a balance of strength and techniques.

GM Chang is certainly one of the best Baoding Shuai Jiao practioner of the modern era. But, I don't think it would be correct to say he is the father of modern shuai jiao. He can be considered to be the father of US shuai jiao movement.

wm

[PT-Kali]

I just located some cool clips at www.combatshuaichiao.com

I watched one video which shows the 13 Tai Po and 24 shadow fighting linked together....is this is how it's taught in the states? The clip was obviously from China...

[mickey]

Hi sc_guy,

I think the 120 move form would be great from the standpoint of having a reference form to work with. I remember you saying in another forum that some of the Shuai Chiao techniques have more than one name. I hope that you document them so that those names would not be lost; sometimes the different name will give a person a better understanding of how to do the technique.

By the way, for years now, Liang Shouyu has been working on a Shuai Chiao that documents 300 throws. It is supposed to be published through YMAA. I hope this happens.

mickey

[iWalkTheCircle]

Originally posted by sc_guy


That girl went to the Central Police Uninersity SC class. After she beated 4 police SC women. The instructor Chu Yu-Lon got a guy finally beated her and save his face. She is currently in BJJ and a very good grappler and also a good Mui Tai fighter.

wow!!!! does she also live in Austin? one of my goal in life is to let a good looking woman wearing perfume to beat me in BJJ..... when r u opening that new SC school w/ 20 good looking & smelling woman? I'll be there in Austin in a heart beat.......


sc, very nice to meet up w/ u again.... thnks for sharing ur SC stuff w/ us.


cheers,
JH =)

[PT-Kali]

Thanks for the info SC...but if you were studying Shuai Chiao and knew the techniques she was doing I don't think it would be too hard to mimick her and do the form yourself.

[Felipe Bido]

Sc_Guy, did you hit her?...because if you did, she'll never come back

[PT-Kali]

Let that be a lesson to you, SC guy, don't go around cheatin' on your girls, ESPECIALLY with a girl that studies a Korean system :)

[iWalkTheCircle]

Originally posted by sc_guy
Yes! But I don't know where. She used to be my girl.

It was a sad and painful memory in my life. I knew her for more than 18 years (since she was only 22 years old). We had traveled all over the world together. One day I broke her heart and she moved out and I lost her forever. I know I would regret that for the rest of my life.

When my shoe lash was loose, she would bend down and tie my shoes without saying a word. Her heart are as pure as an angel.

Hope she may read this post someday and contact me again!



Never hit any girls in my life. There was another girl involved, a black belt in TKD. She almost sent that TKD girl to hospital. I was standing in between and took most of the punches and kicks.


SC,
i'm SORRY to bring out this sad/painful memory from you.

the imagery of u taking hit between 2 women u love is very SAD:~( someTime realLife story is way more sad than TV shows or movies. it sounded like that u guys had a very beautiful and strong relationship in the past.....

i sincerly wish that she will read this message, & maybe contact u soon..... on open internet forum, u never know who is reading it. best of luck for you!!!! from my very limited life experience, I know this-- second chance is very hard to come by. if it does comeBy the feeling/situation maybe not be as good as the first. itz all same but different. the second time the fruits might not be as ripe :( i pray that maybe one day all your paths may cross again, & the relationShip more fruitful & even better than the first. for the most part a person tend to be constant, but people still do change (for better or worse) sometime.......


Carpe diem: Used as an admonition to seize the pleasures of the moment without concern for the future. n. Such an admonition. [Latin : carpe, seize + diem, day.] -or- 1817, from L., "enjoy the day," lit. "pluck the day (while it is ripe)," an aphorism from Horace ("Odes" I.xi), from PIE *kerp- "to gather, pluck, harvest."


my wife is also has the heart of angel, & is an angel to me in all aspect. I someTime do many stupid stuff to make her MAD. I wish myWife shall NEVER become a sad/painful memory for me. Thnks for reminging me to get my acts together, since I cannot afford to regret myLove for the rest of my life.


cheers,
JH =)

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by sc_guy
Never hit any girls in my life. There was another girl involved, a black belt in TKD. She almost sent that TKD girl to hospital. I was standing in between and took most of the punches and kicks.

See, that's why you should date BJJ girls. Next time, you could be stuck between them as the roll around the ground, panting and sweaty, wrapping their legs around you as they... Oh gee, I got excited there.

Anyway, you could be a SC Sandwich! :D

[neigung]

Originally posted by WanderingMonk


Obviously, you haven't seen these videos.

http://emptyflower.stanford.edu/johnwang1.html

watch vid 11-15. You can watch the other as well. but vid 11-15 holds the answers to your questions..

wm

YES! i've been looking for those clips for like 2 or 3 months now.
Thanks for posting them!

[Starchaser107]

meatshake or cap, or anyone else that does this.
just a quick question
: In SJ how is the weight difference situation addressed when pairing off combatants/ opponents?
Does it matter the size weight difference of opponents , or can this be done by anyone versus anyone?

thanks

[CaptinPickAxe]

Certain moves can be applied better to bigger people.

Shuai Chiao has something for every build and has something that works against every build. Shake can go into it better than I can seeing how I've been out of practice for a minute.

[Kristoffer]

I find that bigger people have an advantage in Shuai Chiao, due to raw streangt. The higher up the skill latter you get, the less and less it matter how big you are.

[Meat Shake]

Do you mean in tourneys or what?
In tournament they divide you by weight, And the weight classes all depend on how many people there are.
Some shuai chiao tourneys down here everybody just fights everybody....
The way to get best is to fight all kinds of people of all different body weights though, and thats what I try to do.
Strength always plays a part in shuai chiao... You use your opponents energy against him, but you compress him like a spring first, load him... But you have to have the strength to do that, otherwise the throw wont work, and the throw wont be ballistic. Shuai chiao is like compressing the spring, and when the spring releases you help it a little.
Hope that helps. :)

[Starchaser107]

ok, i hope i'm not asking to divulge any secrets here

but how is strength training done in SJ?
Is it achieved naturally through the course of fighting and fighting and fighting until you become strong,
or is there supplimental strength training like weight lifting etc.

does the concept of qi play a major role in the teaching of the art,
and if so is it frowned upon to use weights?

[Starchaser107]

by the way , thanks for the reply so far guys.

[CaptinPickAxe]

The only real way to build up throwing power is to throw someone. There are some pretty neat-o training tools and excercises.

Like Stonepole, Canvas Bag Tossing, and The Well Pully.

[Meat Shake]

Single side rock pole - A pvc pipe with a cement filled flower pot on one end, used by wrapping the leg around it and lifting it in different ways to train different aspects of reaping, shaving, and leg siezing.

Double side - A pvc pipe with cement filled flower pots on both ends, is swung in ways emulating a throw to train same muscle groups, done in conjunction with stepping patterns to train a student how to move in and out of range properly.

Belt cracking- A regular "karate" style belt is used, folded into 3rds, to crack much the same way you would a regular belt. This is done in several different stepping patterns to emulate several different throws.

Square bag - Thrown around to increase finger strength, hand eye coordination, and grabbing skills.

Long bag - Swung in a half pendulum type swing to get a student used to the smooth pulling and sudden jerking action of throws.

Well pulley - 40' rope with weights at the end, held up by a pulley. With your arm outstretched, you lower your hand holding the rope to by your waist. You then extend that hand fast enough to make a wave in the rope, and hold the rope tight enough so that it is not ripped from your hand when the weights drop.

Bull in the ring - This is one of my favorites. One student stands in the middle, one person stands on each corner of the mat. Without speaking, someone rushes the student in the middle, attacking at about 70%. Student in the middle must dispatch this attacker, and upon doing this, is rushed from another corner by a random attacker. Does wonders for your awareness.

Free wrestling - Pretty much like the shuai chiao at the tourney, but we train with out a jacket. Jackets get you too used to a "unrealistic jack situation" and if you do not know how to throw without the jacket already, sometimes the transition is rather difficult to make when you are in a dire situation.

Other than that I lift weights on a regular basis, kirk looks down on it, but apparently it helps. Master wang insists that qi is not in any way relevant to martial arts training. To healing yes, but not to fighting. Not at least in this day and age, the dedication to cultivate qi to a high enough level to use for fighting simply no longer exists.

[Meat Shake]

I also hit the heavy bag and jog and do all of that fun stuff too.
Hope that helps.
:)

[Tak]

A pvc pipe with cement filled flower pots on both ends
AKA barbell...

[Meat Shake]

Not in the ghetto. We use flower pots.
Now go find someone elses ghetto things to make fun of.
:mad:



;)

[Starchaser107]

"AKA barbell..."

lol

[GeneChing]

ASIAN MMA
Shuai Jiao: Finding China’s martial arts renaissance in a 4,000-year-old wrestling system (https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2019/3/12/18242708/shuai-jiao-finding-chinas-martial-arts-renaissance-in-a-4000-year-old-wrestling-system?fbclid=IwAR2P1fqDdTDXBligWWi7-UX6VhaWhiJliLdLuBgnVXJZ-14BTadhY3oLKPU)
Bloody Elbow’s two part feature goes in depth on Kung Fu’s past, present and future.
By chrismassari Mar 12, 2019, 8:00am EDT

The Grandfather of the Martial Arts in the Modern Era

Nearly 30 years ago, martial arts forever changed.

UFC 1 was a catalyst to forever reshape the ideology, foundation, education, approach and very make up of self-defense and the martial arts.

Simply put, the Gracie family changed the game.

Without neglecting the history of Shoot Boxing, Catch Wrestling, Pancrase, Vale Tudo and even the philosophies of individuals like Bruce Lee and other multi-martial art disciplines pre-UFC, the practice of “cross-training” wasn’t mainstream among western practitioners, nor was it thought of as something integral to becoming a successful or even competent martial artist. Historical nuances aside, this event in 1993 can be seen as a defining marker in martial arts and how the culture shifted to where it is now.

In that span of three decades, we’ve seen martial arts grow from traditional based systems, rigid, linear and structured, to the basics of mixed martial arts. Slowly dipping their toes into what it means to train in multiple disciplines, before fast forwarding only a few years, where the practice starts to culminate in the ultimate form of cross training found in the “complete martial artists” like George St. Pierre or Jon Jones.

And as mixed martial arts continued to grow and adapt, traditional styles began to die in the early years of internet forums.

The Bullshido days of MMA.

Yet, instead of dying, some traditional systems reinvented themselves and modernized with this changing landscape. Practitioners like Lyoto Machida, Stephen “Wonderboy” Thompson, Michael Page or Anthony Pettis to name only a few, began surfacing years later and proving their styles had a place among these modernized systems.

But, unlike other styles, one of the most ancient systems of fighting, Kung Fu and the martial arts of China, hold almost zero influence in 2019 and never regained that foothold of relevancy it once had. After UFC 1 and the ushering in of the next era of martial arts, Kung Fu was faced with the dilemma all traditional martial arts were: adapt or die.

The difference? Unlike Karate or Taekwondo who adapted, Kung Fu never recovered in Western combat sports since, and in some cases, globally too.

The reason is simple. An internet search of “Kung Fu versus” can provide an almost a perpetual stream of videos of Kung Fu experts in Gracie style challenge matches or “dojo storms” against blue belt level grapplers or western boxers with only a few years of training. All of them ended with the same invalidating results, leaving Kung Fu currently on life support.

Gene Ching, the associate publisher of Kung Fu Tai Chi Magazine and KungFuMagazine.com, as well as a weapons master featured on El Rey Networks’ Man At Arms, was asked why Kung Fu hasn’t found success in Western combat sports.

“One reason is that China has a romantic notion of martial arts, and the kind of braggadocio seen in MMA (ie. Khabib vs. McGregor) doesn’t fit within their cultural view, so it’s not encouraged. When you have MMA fighters challenging Tai Chi practitioners, that’s painfully tone deaf in terms of what each style looks to achieve. But, China is starting to come around. ONE Championship just crossed a quarter billion in total capital, and while that’s Singapore, not China, well, that’s where Crazy Rich Asians is set, right?
Another reason is that Kung Fu is working for a longer game, so it’s more sophisticated, and in this case, to a fault. A practitioner doesn’t really come into mastery until their thirties, and that’s outside the window of MMA competitors. A simpler way to look at this is that if someone pursues Kung Fu in earnest, they have to study dozens of cold-arm weapons. That’s time that an MMA competitor will spend training fighting, so they are more focused. Kung Fu can be stripped down to just sparring, which is essentially what Sanda is, and that has achieved some level of success in MMA.”

The issue with Sanda or Sanshou, is most would barely recognize the difference between it and any other kickboxing related practices. There have been a handful of notable Sanshou-based MMA fighters such as UFC and Strikeforce veteran Cung Le, or Filipino champions like Eduard Folayang and Kevin Belingon, but the success of a few outliers is not going to win the hearts and minds in a systems’ ability — which Kung Fu desperately needs, unfortunately.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/5hPt_lba1iisprpO6w-C13kxEco=/0x0:3000x2027/1320x0/filters:focal(0x0:3000x2027):format(webp):no_upsca le()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/14726927/176428251.jpg.jpg
Photo by Mark Metcalfe/Getty Images

Everybody was Kung Fu Fighting...

Kung Fu originally exploded into the Western eye in the 60’s and 70’s thanks to Chinese cinema and more specifically, through the influence of martial arts pioneer and icon Bruce Lee, as well as films from the Shaw Brothers.

These films not only promoted the art of Kung Fu to the West, but really the martial arts as a whole. It can even be argued that if it wasn’t for the Kung Fu film genre, that the martial arts might not have reached the global level of popularity and the cultural influence that it has. These films took Kung Fu and martial arts mainstream.

Still, Kung Fu’s influence has since remained, if not wholly, reserved to cinema and culture exclusively, slowly fading into obscurity in the world of hand to hand combat.

There is one individual though, who wants to change that and will take on anyone, abiding by a philosophy of “the mats don’t lie” as he puts it, in order to prove Kung Fu’s legitimacy and bringing the Chinese martial arts back into the conversation of combat application. He is Lavell Marshall, who is not only accepting all challengers, but is actively seeking them out in competition.

“My goals are to become as great as I knew I could be since I was three years old. To keep going to new levels and reach a place no one’s ever seen in this art.” Marshall states, “Through this journey, I want to show the world how great Shuai Jiao [Kung Fu] is and not just for Shuai Jiao, but for anyone and in any arena. When I’m old the whole world will know what Shuai Jiao is.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK9_QeSR14E continued next post

[GeneChing]

Lavell “Shaolin” Marshall: A Jack of all Grappling Trades and a Master in One, Throwing Backs to the Mat

Marshall is a Shuai Chiao Black Belt and a multiple-time national Shuai Jiao champion on team USA, who competes regularly in Shuai Jiao internationally. He is also a state Judo Champion and has competed in Jiu-Jitsu as well. In particular, he is the star of a viral video that has made the rounds around the internet several times, where Lavell displays his grappling prowess involving a spazzy white belt. Marshall has even begun venturing into other grappling art competitions too and is finding success there in Mongolian Bökh, Kazakh Kures, Belt Wrestling, and Russian Sambo.

Lavell, who also holds a Judo Brown Belt, Taekwondo Black Belt, and Jiu-Jitsu blue belt, is a student from the famous Shuai Chiao fighting lineage of Chang Tung Sheng, Master David Lin and his teacher, Sifu Omar Harvin. Marshall, who has also appeared in Netflix’s second season of Luke Cage, is currently studying under Vladislav Koulikov — a world-renowned sambist and grappling ace in his own right — in Sambo and Sambo Fusion (a mix of Sambo, Judo, Wrestling, and BJJ).

As far as the grappling world goes, the four kings are Jiu-Jitsu, Wrestling, Judo, and Sambo, and when it comes to the purely throwing arts, Judo is deity. Kung Fu may be viewed to most modern martial arts as very low on the totem pole of fighting systems, but it’s even worse when it comes to grappling, making what Marshall does that much more exciting.

He is not just an outlier in the grappling disciplines of the West. He is also the only one using a Chinese system at a high level in multiple grappling disciplines, and winning on what is traditionally an area of fighting that Kung Fu is considered one of the worst in.

Kung Fu is known as a striking art and made mainstream by Bruce Lee and again, Chinese cinema. Films of all nature in the action genre focus on the striking nature of Kung Fu. Whether it’s Drunken Boxing, Crane Style, 5 Animals, or Wing Chun, generally speaking, Kung Fu is thought of as a martial arts with zero grappling based principles or history.

Because there’s no wrestling in Kung Fu, right? Judo was the first real throwing art, right?

Wrong.

Ancient Chinese Secret: China’s Oldest Combat Based System

Shuai Jiao or Shuai Chiao, often incorrectly referred to as “Chinese Judo” and sometimes known as Chinese Wrestling, dates back over 4,000 years ago as an ancient system of military close combat or Kung Fu, in which it was referred to then as jǐao dǐ (角抵) or jiao li (角力) and translated as “horn butting”, before reaching its modern term of Shuai Jiao.

During different periods of time and Dynasties, this art was extremely popular and was not only an art of the military, but entertainment as well. It was then in the Qing Dynasty (1644 to 1912) that it was the art of the Shan Pu Ying, The Battalion of Excellency in Catching, who were the bodyguards to the Emperor and when it truly flourished with Chinese, Manchuria Buku and Bökh really beginning to mesh.

At one point, even women participated in entertainment based wrestling events, in the same garb as the men, shirtless with undergarments similar to Sumo. Lavell explained in more detail, this Chinese and Japanese wrestling connection, as well as other influences to Asia abroad.

“Sumo has its origins in Shuai Jiao. During the Tang Dynasty when it was called Xiang Pu, it went over to Japan and was taught to a few people. Down the line with modifications, it became Sumo. Many people will dispute this, but one thing we can’t dispute is that Japan was heavily influenced by China, and so was Sumo.

“As for Bökh, there are two main styles, Inner Mongolian and Mongolian. Inner Mongolian has developed along Shuai Jiao, so aside from uniform, it has much of the same techniques, just with a different emphasis. Mongolian Bökh also has close relations because of the Mongols taking over China and encouraging people to wrestle. Much of what is seen today is thousands of years of crossover between the two.”

Since Shuai Jiao is almost completely unknown in the West, there has been confusion that this 4,000 plus-year-old art actually borrowed techniques from more modern throwing systems, rather than the other way around.

Matt Gelfand, an international and national Shuai Jiao champion, elaborates by stating:

“Shuai Jiao can be considered the father of Chinese martial arts and also the father of most Asian wrestling or grappling arts. It’s a wrestling based art with combat and close quarter applications. However, unlike most Kung Fu styles, the focus is on throwing and takedowns as opposed to striking.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Cpr7GjJL4

A Phoenix in the Ashes: Reclaiming the Middle Kingdom’s Martial Glory and Where it’s Future Lies

If Kung Fu is going to have a future, then it must look to its past. An ability to excel in combat sport and to adapt to a sports-based setting, regardless of tradition or practices linked to “self-defense” is the only way to rise from it’s defeated state. The biggest hurdle Kung Fu is currently facing in the modern martial arts landscape, and more precisely in the West, is simple: results. And the only one holding it back from those results, is itself.

“Many teachers would say it’s because their techniques are “lethal”... but, realistically, most just haven’t made the jump to sport training,” Gelfand states. “Arts like Western and Thai Boxing have been tried and tested in the ring for a long time, as they make it a point to simplify concepts to fit [a sport setting]. Kung Fu styles like Praying Mantis, Wing Chun and Dragon Style involve catching and breaking limbs, which can’t really apply to sport. Most techniques, when broken down to sport concepts, look almost exactly like western boxing. If you look up Sanda or Sanshou (Chinese Kickboxing) you’ll get a glimpse of how that translates.”

Between YouTube, World Star, mixed martial arts, the internet and media overall, for a martial art to be deemed valid, you need tangible outcomes which are commonly found in some form of combat sport. This isn’t said as a negative either.

Fighting arts of all kind must be shown as capable in combat. It’s in their very design. The reason people don’t question the effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu, Judo or Muay Thai is that not only can they take what they practice and instantly apply it in some form of sparring or sporting event, they can watch it in action from others in a competition.

The martial arts are a physical embodiment of the scientific method. It’s why they have been ever evolving throughout human history, building the validity and practicality of any given technique through constant testing. The only difference in this method is, if the thesis is proved wrong, the results generally have repercussions, and in the most serious cases, could even result in permanent injury or death.

Meaning, for theories of technique to be scientifically tested over and over again, they must be done where the researchers of this subjects, martial artists, are able to experiment safely and continuously in their study. This leaves sport training as the only way we can continue to evolve the martial arts.

A very easy case to study for this idea is the very rapid evolution of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

One can debate the difference of “sport” versus “real” Jiu-Jitsu, however, there is no denying the Jiu-Jitsu of today is more advanced in its “vocabulary” than it was 10 years ago, let alone 50. And while within the Jiu-Jitsu community there is debate versus how the sport or game aspect of Jiu-Jitsu may have deviated from its original self-defense roots, that is a path most, if not all, combat sports take. They are forged in combat and spawn offsprings meant to foster competition that can be tested over and over again without participants facing the same consequences as war.

The debate of sport and self-defense will continue in Jiu-Jitsu regardless. Nonetheless, there are ways of testing modern Jiu-Jitsu’s competency through MMA and high-level players like Demian Maia, Ryan Hall, Gunnar Nelson, Shinya Aoki or “Jacare” Souza, to name a few, have shown Jiu-Jitsu does just fine in combat or self-defense.

Daniele Bolelli, a professor at California State University and Santa Monica College, host of the History on Fire podcast and author of On the Warrior’s Path, states:

“Historical circumstances have made Chinese martial arts considerably less effective than others at present. It’s not so much that the techniques employed in these arts are bad — in many cases they are quite sound — but the training methods and teaching methodologies are antiquated. The same thing would have happened to Japanese martial arts had it not been for people like Kano Jigoro, and their efforts to modernize the practice of martial arts. Out of all Chinese styles, Shuai Jiao is one of those that offer the most promise in terms of being adaptable to MMA.”
continued next post

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM_mg9nvcdY

Cultural Renaissance over Revolution: The Future of the Chinese Martial Arts

Without diving into the 4,000 plus years of Chinese history, which includes countless revolutions, uprisings, social unrest, cultural and customs, the big question becomes, if Shuai Jiao is Kung Fu, then why hasn’t it succeeded in the West?

Marshall sheds some light on this extremely valid question:

“It comes down to the fact there aren’t [many] high level instructors and [there’s] no money. It is now growing so things are changing, but because of these reasons it has been hard to develop strong players in the West. Many of the players are hobbyist and don’t train full time like professional athletes. I am one of the exceptions.”

This is where Shuai Jiao provides so much potential for reviving Kung Fu.

Not only is Shuai Jiao a practice that employs modern principles and can be applied over and over again in a live sparring setting, it can also do so completely removed from theory, philosophy and internal development, while still maintaining traditional and cultural roots so intertwined within Kung Fu.

Shuai Jiao, unlike Sanshou or Sanda, looks like traditional Kung Fu in the purest form. The movements look right out of the movies, but have actual practicality. The training resembles something out of ancient Shaolin, and the techniques themselves present something uniquely Chinese.

Everything about it oozes the aesthetic look of a traditional look Kung Fu system, that maintains both art and combat application.

And because of this, if there is was a martial art that returns Chinese influence to the forefront of combat and even simply conversation, it is Shuai Jiao. In 2015, Sascha Matuszak of Vice’s Fightland stated:

“Shuai Jiao is still on the outskirts of the combat sport cypher, with no real chance of grabbing the mic just yet. But, mixed martial artists are beginning to explore past the well known striking, grappling, submissions triumvirate into other, lesser known styles in search for an edge. At some point the Taiji-infused, Qin Na [Chin Na] influenced grappling and throwing game of traditional Shuai Jiao could prove useful.”

Lavell, an active Shuai Jiao competitor, is seeing that eruption of Chinese martial arts happening right now. In his opinion, it’s only a matter of time.

When asked if Shuai Jiao could compete with other grappling arts, he states:

“A question I get asked a lot and the answer is, of course, it can! I’ve competed in many competitions from popular grappling styles to ones even more obscure and on international levels for some, and found great success. Most styles of grappling can compete with others as long as you learn to adapt to the ruleset in which you are competing.”

China no longer wants to lose at its national sport, Shuai Jiao, Lavell explained. The Chinese government is backing Kung Fu now, rather than opposing it’s martial elements as they have done in the past:

“But, now the government is putting a lot of money and effort to spread their national art. There is even a pro league now and it is something you can major in at the Universities there.”

China no longer wants to fall by the wayside in something that is so closely linked to their traditions and heritage. Gene Ching states:

“The future looks bright. There’s more research published than ever. There’s more Kung Fu movies than ever. China has become a wealthy nation, and many of the new rich are enthralled with Kung Fu and what it represents. Jack Ma is a perfect example. In his wake, a few other affluent leaders have been working to preserve and revitalize martial traditions. It’s a slow yet steady rise, and it’s certainly not for everyone (no martial art is), but it is continually adapting to serve the diaspora in unique ways.”

Efforts and money are a good start, but the real change won’t come unless there are students learning and then spreading their knowledge. This is, of course, the age-old conundrum that all martial arts face, as growth is found in lineage and preservation through students. Money and access are great assets but ultimately, what will really push Shuai Jiao into the mainstream is successful students which come from tangible results.

The results in hardware found in combat sports.

The career and educational options found in combat sports.

As well as the prestige, financial compensation, and fame that once again, comes from sport.

This is where Lavell Marshall believes he can be at the forefront of this renaissance and one of the driving forces behind the coming wave:

“I want to bring the highest skill level of Shuai Jiao to the West and have people here see its effectiveness. Many people are already starting to see that and largely because of what I post and do, but I want the West to truly dig deep into it and for you to see players of all styles competing and training in it.”

Within the last few years, Marshall has become more and more prominent in the social media world, with an ever growing following. While on the grappling circuit, he is achieving victory after victory in the competition space, putting himself out there to spread this art to other arts through tangible, competitive victores. He’s featured in film, as well podcasts to help inform others about Shuai Jiao. Lavell has been in an all out push in every medium and avenue that he can, in order to gain eyes and grab attention to Shuai Jiao.

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Lavell Marshall

This year, Lavell has moved to Inner Mongolia to continue his training further. He believes this environment will allow him the professional level insight and the technical growth in his daily training that he just cannot find at this time for Shuai Jiao in the West.

He wants to immerse himself in various grappling styles and disciplines, with martial artists who are just at a different level, and spend their days doing nothing but training, living and breathing the combat arts. Marshall feels the atmosphere towards wrestling, grappling and general life of the martial arts is different there, providing him the opportunity to grow and learn like nowhere else.

Lavell’s goal after obtaining the competition experience and accolades in competition victories, is to return and begin his next journey: To expand Shuai Jiao in the West, to become a household name, and to bring Kung Fu back to relevance in the modern stage of martial arts. In BJJ, in MMA, in all forms of grappling.

Only time will tell if Lavell and Kung Fu, through Shuai Jiao, will find its renaissance in the modern mixed martial arts, but the evidence seems to point to something special on the horizon.

Chris has been working towards an article for us with Marshall. Hopefully that will happen someday soon.

[MightyB]

But, unlike other styles, one of the most ancient systems of fighting, Kung Fu and the martial arts of China, hold almost zero influence in 2019 and never regained that foothold of relevancy it once had. After UFC 1 and the ushering in of the next era of martial arts, Kung Fu was faced with the dilemma all traditional martial arts were: adapt or die.

The difference? Unlike Karate or Taekwondo who adapted, Kung Fu never recovered in Western combat sports since, and in some cases, globally too.

The reason is simple. An internet search of “Kung Fu versus” can provide an almost a perpetual stream of videos of Kung Fu experts in Gracie style challenge matches or “dojo storms” against blue belt level grapplers or western boxers with only a few years of training. All of them ended with the same invalidating results, leaving Kung Fu currently on life support.

To me this is a hunk of horse sh*t which we have to start calling out. It's not that Kung Fu hasn't adapted or isn't relevant, it is just held to a higher standard. One which isn't applied to other martial arts.

There is nothing *pure* in MMA. If a person wants to fight in MMA and they are serious, they train for it. They have strength and conditioning coaches, striking coaches, grappling coaches, heck - they even have nutrition coaches.

They are not doing tae kwon do, boxing, jiu jitsu or judo -- they are training to compete in an MMA match.

Here's an idea, the next time a MMA / BJJ guy challenges a Kung Fu guy, the Kung Fu guy should throw them a san ji guan and say "ok, let's fight with these." The MMA guy would cry foul and say it isn't fair because he isn't prepared to fight with a 3 sectional staff. Well why not? He is a martial artist after all. Shouldn't he be good with everything martial?

That scenario is the same as a Kung Fu practitioner fighting a MMA person in a MMA match. The Kung Fu person isn't prepared or trained for that type of fighting. But guess what? Neither is a person who is only training one of the so-called combat ready sports like Judo, Boxing, Kick-Boxing, etc.

So the next time someone says Kung Fu is dead or irrelevant at the local pub, ask them if they ever seen anybody hit anybody with a powerful strike at close range. When they say yes, tell them that's Pak Mei beyotch.

[Jimbo]

To me this is a hunk of horse sh*t which we have to start calling out. It's not that Kung Fu hasn't adapted or isn't relevant, it is just held to a higher standard. One which isn't applied to other martial arts.

There is nothing *pure* in MMA. If a person wants to fight in MMA and they are serious, they train for it. They have strength and conditioning coaches, striking coaches, grappling coaches, heck - they even have nutrition coaches.

They are not doing tae kwon do, boxing, jiu jitsu or judo -- they are training to compete in an MMA match.

Here's an idea, the next time a MMA / BJJ guy challenges a Kung Fu guy, the Kung Fu guy should throw them a san ji guan and say "ok, let's fight with these." The MMA guy would cry foul and say it isn't fair because he isn't prepared to fight with a 3 sectional staff. Well why not? He is a martial artist after all. Shouldn't he be good with everything martial?

That scenario is the same as a Kung Fu practitioner fighting a MMA person in a MMA match. The Kung Fu person isn't prepared or trained for that type of fighting. But guess what? Neither is a person who is only training one of the so-called combat ready sports like Judo, Boxing, Kick-Boxing, etc.

So the next time someone says Kung Fu is dead or irrelevant at the local pub, ask them if they ever seen anybody hit anybody with a powerful strike at close range. When they say yes, tell them that's Pak Mei beyotch.

I agree. Kung Fu IS held to a higher standard. Why, I'm not sure. People nowadays rave about Krav Maga, but I haven't heard of any Krav Maga (or, say, any Systema) practitioners winning any MMA matches. I've also never heard of any Kali/Escrima winning in MMA, nor any JKD guys (except for that one early JKD/MMA fighter; I forgot his name).

If you take the 'typical' MMA guy (who's only trained MMA, and not any of its individual constituent arts/sports extensively), take him/her to Thailand and put them into a match with a highly experienced Muay Thai fighter, they'll get their @ss handed to them too, in a big way. Same if you put them into a pure pro boxing bout, as was clear with the Floyd Mayweather-Conor McGregor match. And Floyd clearly allowed McGregor to last as long as he did before finishing him off; he could've ended it in the first round if he'd wanted to, and Floyd wasn't known as a 1st-round KO artist.

The so-called MA/MMA pundits/nut riders talk about 'Kung Fu' as if it's one monolithic entity that's all the same, with the same emphases ("you've seen some, you've seen it all"), and it's not. And almost without exception, the ones doing the talking about 'Kung Fu' don't know ****-all about what they're talking about, but they're treated as 'experts' on all things MA. They're the same types of idiots who leave YouTube comments under old-school Kung Fu movies saying, "These guys would get their @sses beat down fighting like that. If they posed after side-kicking with their leg out like that I'd take them down and ground and pound them."

I know of at least two local MMA practitioners who have gotten killed outside of the gym/ring over the years, but I would never say that MMA sucks. Everything has its place, and sometimes reality bites back hard.

[GeneChing]

To me this is a hunk of horse sh*t which we have to start calling out. It's not that Kung Fu hasn't adapted or isn't relevant, it is just held to a higher standard. One which isn't applied to other martial arts.



That's somewhat my point with my quote in the article - "Another reason is that Kung Fu is working for a longer game, so it’s more sophisticated, and in this case, to a fault. A practitioner doesn’t really come into mastery until their thirties, and that’s outside the window of MMA competitors. A simpler way to look at this is that if someone pursues Kung Fu in earnest, they have to study dozens of cold-arm weapons. That’s time that an MMA competitor will spend training fighting, so they are more focused. Kung Fu can be stripped down to just sparring, which is essentially what Sanda is, and that has achieved some level of success in MMA." But such is the MMA perspective. They can't get out of the cage. :p

[Jimbo]

That's somewhat my point with my quote in the article - "Another reason is that Kung Fu is working for a longer game, so it’s more sophisticated, and in this case, to a fault. A practitioner doesn’t really come into mastery until their thirties, and that’s outside the window of MMA competitors. A simpler way to look at this is that if someone pursues Kung Fu in earnest, they have to study dozens of cold-arm weapons. That’s time that an MMA competitor will spend training fighting, so they are more focused. Kung Fu can be stripped down to just sparring, which is essentially what Sanda is, and that has achieved some level of success in MMA." But such is the MMA perspective. They can't get out of the cage. :p

Gene:
Being 30-something is not really outside the window. How many MMA fighters out there are in their early 30s and considered 'up-and-comers' in MMA? I've seen a number of them. IIRC, Randy Couture didn't start competing in MMA until he was well into his 30s.

[GeneChing]

Gene:
Being 30-something is not really outside the window. How many MMA fighters out there are in their early 30s and considered 'up-and-comers' in MMA? I've seen a number of them. IIRC, Randy Couture didn't start competing in MMA until he was well into his 30s.

True, I should have said 40. But you get my point. Plus Couture started in the late 90s. MMA was different then. But I'm sure if you looked around, you could find a few other MMA competitors in their 30s.

[MightyB]

That's somewhat my point with my quote in the article

True and I got that and you put it in hopefully an understandable way for the "kings of the cage".

I'm just tired of what like Jimbo was saying, the monolithic approach that all Kung Fu is bad because some idiot tried to use push hands against a kick boxer in a kick boxing match.

TCMA Practitioners have to be smarter. They have to be honest with themselves and realize that if you only do traditional MA, then your MA is good for dealing with untrained bullies and thugs in the school yard and other traditionalists who train in styles related to yours. Don't fight outside of your wheelhouse unless you specifically train to fight outside of your wheelhouse. It's the same for ALL traditional arts. For example, Tae Kwon Do is sh!t for a boxing match, boxing is sh!t for a wrestling match, etc.

[GeneChing]

It's akin to the Xu Xiaodong challenges (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu). That's my exactly point with my statement "When you have MMA fighters challenging Tai Chi practitioners, that’s painfully tone deaf in terms of what each style looks to achieve."


True and I got that and you put it in hopefully an understandable way for the "kings of the cage".
I'm just glad that the author included my quotes in the piece - for a counterpoint if nothing else, ya know?

[MightyB]

I'm just glad that the author included my quotes in the piece - for a counterpoint if nothing else, ya know?

I'm glad they did too. I have a good rebuttal for MMA enthusiasts. One which they can't refute when discussing the relative importance of Kung Fu...

Tell them Chuck Norris learned Tang So Do. Tang So Do teaches a form called So Rim Jang Kwan Hyung. So Rim Jang Kwan Hyung is actually the Chin Wu form Jie Quan (Jeet Kune SP?). Jie Quan comes from Long Fist Kung Fu.
That means... Chuck Norris does Kung Fu! :D

[Jimbo]

Well, in actuality, Tang Soo Do is Japanese/Okinawan karate modified a bit by Hwang Kee (don't tell the Koreans that). But the 'Tang' in Tang Soo Do refers to China's Tang Dynasty, and since karate (or most of it) originated in CMA and is modified from it, it is descended from CMA.

[MightyB]

Well, in actuality, Tang Soo Do is Japanese/Okinawan karate modified a bit by Hwang Kee (don't tell the Koreans that). But the 'Tang' in Tang Soo Do refers to China's Tang Dynasty, and since karate (or most of it) originated in CMA and is modified from it, it is descended from CMA.

See you agree... Chuck Norris does Kung Fu!
It's the 'Tang' that made his beard grow.

[GeneChing]

Shuai Jiao Part 2: Kung Fu’s failures, cultural identity and it’s enormous, turbulent history (https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2019/3/15/18261347/shuai-jiao-part-2-kung-fus-failures-cultural-identity-and-its-enormous-turbulent-history)
This is part two of BE’s feature about Kung Fu’s past, present and future. Check here for Part 1.
By chrismassari Mar 15, 2019, 8:00am EDT

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What Happened to the Grandfather of the Martial Arts

The martial art of Kung Fu boomed in the West during the 1970’s thanks to Chinese cinema and has since created a global awareness that is arguably, second to none when it comes to a combat art.

Yet, this relevancy has remained for the most part, reserved to movies and culture exclusively. It’s deemed by most practicing martial artists as nothing more than entertainment and lacking any real or applicable combat principles in the world of mixed martial arts.

Because, unlike Karate or Taekwondo who have adapted to the “MMA” era, Kung Fu simply just hasn’t. But, why is that?

Why has Kung Fu been unable to adjust and is perceived, rightfully so, as ineffective in contrast to other arts? The answer to this question is probably found in its country of origin, and in the study of China’s history and culture.

However, getting to that answer is a bit of a deep dive down a very large and extensive rabbit hole, that can be difficult to fully grasp.

To start with, attempting to condense thousands of years of Chinese history is a Herculean task. Think about it this way:

The United States has been a country for only 239 years.

The Russian state is about 1156 years old.

The Greek language has been around for about 3,400 years.

While the first Chinese dynasty? It already existed about 4,100 years ago.

And when you try to explore this issue of Kung Fu’s current state, the biggest problem you run into is being unable to disconnect or discount the Chinese history from the martial art itself, because Kung Fu has also spanned the length of the civilization, culture and society.

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Six masters of Shuai Jiao in Tianjin, 1930 Wikimedia

Shuai Jiao or Shuai Chiao, the grandfather of Chinese martial arts, often incorrectly referred to as “Chinese Judo” and sometimes known as Chinese Wrestling, dates back over 4,000 years ago as an ancient system of military close combat Kung Fu, in which it was referred to then as jǐao dǐ (角抵) or jiao li (角力) and translated as “horn butting.”

Here’s another thought exercise for perspective:

Japanese Jiu-Jitsu or Judo was introduced to the Gracie family around 1914, 104 years ago.

The Chinese introduced the Japanese to Kung Fu around 650 years ago, spawning the creation and development of Karate.

Pankration was first introduced into the Greek Olympics about 2,600 years ago.

Kung Fu is almost double that.

And because of this massive factor of time that it’s existed, in order for anyone to better its current state, you again, must also understand Chinese history or at the very least, some key components about it.

This circles back to that “why.”

Why has Kung Fu not recovered as an art and why has it lost relevancy in the combat arts conversation?

Breaking Down Tradition, Theory and Philosophy

Unlike other martial arts, Kung Fu is deeply tied to religious and philosophical ideologies.

Whether it’s the Buddhist influences of Shaolin or the Daoist connection to Tai Chi (Taiji, T’ai chi ch’üan, Taijiquan), the Chinese arts are deeply tied to internal or moral development and most of the time, more so than anything external.

Lavell Marshall, a Shuai Chiao Black Belt and a multiple-time national Shuai Jiao champion and international competitor on Team USA, explains:

“There is a much deeper spiritual connection in Eastern martial arts [than others]. Not necessarily religious, but spiritual. It goes deeper into the soul...The whole culture shapes it.”

Historically in Chinese arts, progression was also tied to the development of the self. The journey in Kung Fu branches ****her than just competent fighting skills — you also become a better human being.

There are always exceptions to this rule, but Bleys Lee, in a TED Talk, gives an explanation from his time in China:

“I was ultimately confronted with the fact that the theory, the thinking of it had become 99% percent of the practice and the doing of it, had very little attention focused on it.”

Lee then goes on to tie a second issue that is very, very common in the methodology and ideology contained in Kung Fu, to the point of it being cliche. It’s the Chinese idea that students need to spend years and years doing theory and basics, before even being able to actually learn “real” Kung Fu.

This training philosophy of “ten years” was also probably the influence of this famous Zen kōan:

“A martial arts student went to his teacher and said earnestly, “I am devoted to studying your martial system. How long will it take me to master it?” The teacher’s reply was casual, “Ten years.” Impatiently, the student answered, “But I want to master it faster than that. I will work very hard. I will practice everyday, ten or more hours a day if I have to. How long will it take then?” The teacher thought for a moment, “20 years.”

And because Chinese Kung Fu is so closely tied with religious principles, it’s not meant to be an easy or even attainable task because neither is enlightenment. Becoming a martial arts master is almost synonymous with becoming a religious one as well.

In the HBO documentary, Needle Through Brick, a Kung Fu master, Grand Master Yeo Ching Ping is asked about how many of his students learned all of his Kung Fu, to which he replies:

“Looking at it from the traditional Chinese standards, there aren’t many. Only two to four out of every 100 students can be successful. The rest can’t be successful. Out of all my students, there have been about 1000. No more than 20 have been successful.”

The director of film, Patrick Daly, asked about teaching someone practical Kung Fu in two or three years to a group of masters. He was answered that it could not be done morally and it’s a reason why the art was dying as well.

“This is the traditional culture. That’s why a lot becomes extinct. Chinese traditional Kung Fu is like this.”

These masters stated they could not break from tradition, because they made oaths to their own masters that they would teach it the same way that they were taught.

Lavell expressed his own opinion on the matter as:

“Kung Fu failed because most people that do it, don’t know how to get out of their old ways. They get confused in the teachings and think they have to fight like the forms, when in reality, the forms are just like reading a book with techniques. It’s there as a reference and a way to develop the body for that particular style, but doesn’t mean you fight like it exactly. Kung Fu takes a long time to learn and is hard work, but truthfully, that’s an outdated way of teaching and training it.”

continued next post

[GeneChing]

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Culture: Lost in Translation

China is not only one of the oldest cultures on our planet, it’s one of the few surviving great ancient civilizations of human existence.

Kung Fu is as old as China and as much a part of its DNA as its history. When you factor in colonialism, various revolutions and uprisings, invasions by the Mongols and the Japanese, as well as modern day influences of the West, it’s not hard to understand why some Chinese masters want to desperately hold onto what they see as their heritage and their cultural identity.

Refusing to teach foreigners or non-Chinese was partly about not losing secret techniques, but it is also about what every culture does when they face change or influence by another — the need to preserve their own at all costs.

Kung Fu is more than just a system of fighting, it’s core to Chinese culture, values and tradition. In the West, to us it’s just technique, but to these masters, it’s heritage.

Professor Ben Judkins of Cornell University investigated this dichotomy from Daly’s essay further. He believes the “demise of traditional martial arts” shouldn’t be understood through the lens of mere self-defense, but through a vast array of values and conveying a range of relationships within the social world:

“In their view, these masters were the ones who were properly authorized to state what constituted an “authentic heritage discourse.” They were the guardians of traditional values and hence “real” Kung Fu”. The preservation of these techniques would require institutional innovation, yet by definition, the values of these new institutions.”

Matt Gelfand, an international and national Shuai Jiao champion, gives an example of his own experience with this practice of “secrecy” and stringently holding onto traditional values:

“In my opinion, the art hasn’t really flourished because of lack of media advertising and secrecy between schools. Recently more Shuai Jiao schools are sharing knowledge, but prior to the early 2000’s, most schools maintained secrecy in the art, in the old traditional Kung Fu way.

“As an example, my Grandmaster, Jeng Hsing Ping (Assistant head instructor at the Taiwan Police College for 25 years) was sworn to secrecy by his teacher Chang Dong Sheng not to share techniques (other than basics), to his students. When (his teacher) passed in 1986, he started training his students in the depths of the art. The same could be said of other students of Chang and their students.”

Uprising, Revolution and Government
Throughout its long history, China’s governments have had a turbulent and mostly violent relationship with their martial artists. The effects of literal centuries worth of collisions between ruling systems and martial arts was not experienced by any other discipline on the planet. As a result, it has also set Kung Fu generations behind every other in the process.

Within the last 200 years there have been: The Red Turban or “Opera Rebellion” (1854-1855), the Red Spears Uprising (1920-30s), The Boxer Rebellion or Boxers Uprising (1899-1901) and one of the most destructive civil wars in history, the Taiping Rebellion (1850-1864). All of which were wide scale events directly involving Chinese martial arts and artists against the Chinese government.

One particular quote from Fightland helps to understand this tumultuous relationship:

“The Opera Rebellion demonstrated the tendency of the Chinese elite to use and exploit the martial element of society when needed, and destroy and pacify it when not.”

Daniele Bolelli, a professor at California State University and Santa Monica College, host of the History on Fire podcast and author of On the Warrior’s Path, weighs in with his own take:

“Martial arts associations have often been nests of rebellion against the government, so plenty of times in Chinese history, the powers that be have crushed them. The Communist government has been no exception, promoting certain aspects of martial tradition (performance and health) while severely limiting the combat elements.”

This isn’t even an archaic occurrence or phenomenon, as recently as 2017 can you find examples of the Chinese government playing a heavy-handed role in the development of their martial arts. A “directive, issued by the General Administration of Sport on Thursday, bans a total of eight practices and follows an intense debate across the country prompted by the humiliating defeat of a tai chi master by a mixed martial artist in April.”

Once again reverting to culture and morality, over combat practicality, “in the directive, which aims to tighten regulations on martial arts-related activities, the General Administration of Sport said practitioners should ‘build correct values about martial arts.’”

This is only one instance of a recent example of state control, in a long history of what is deemed “appropriate” Kung Fu.

Professor Meir Shahar, author of The Shaolin Monastery, suggests the fears of “authentic” martial arts go back as far back as the second half of the Ming Dynasty in China. The legendary Shaolin Monastery is a prime example:

“For most of China’s history, the martial arts were rooted in resistance and rebellion...But for most of China’s history, being persecuted, killed, or imprisoned, along with having all of your belongings taken, your home burned to the ground and your family name reviled for a generation or two was a real possibility for organized martial artists.”

However, there are three pretty major rebellions or uprisings in the last two centuries, that paint a better understanding on the modern state of Kung Fu.

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A scene of the Taiping Rebellion, 1850-1864

The first is the Taiping Rebellion, which holds the fourth highest death toll of modern warfare and in context specific to this article, involved the martial artists of China warring against the State.

The results of this uprising only solidified the ruling class of China’s continual fear of the martial class and “real martial arts.” It’s a continual thread that not only connects Kung Fu’s cultural ties and impact, but also to how the Chinese government itself operates:

“The Communists have drawn many lessons from the Taiping Rebellion…Co-opt and control the martial arts and never allow the three (commoners, prophets, martial artists) to combine into a powerful anti-government force.”

The second major rebellion that is important to note is the Boxers Uprising, most commonly referred to as the Boxers Rebellion. The Boxers Uprising, much like the Taiping Rebellion, was heavily connected to Western colonialism and traditional Chinese culture at odds with the government.

This uprising had a multitude of effects on Kung Fu practice, it’s teaching and even it’s image within China and outside. Sascha Matuszak explains:

“At best Kung Fu is a quaint, sad reminder of the olden days, when Imperial China was beautiful, cultured and unspoiled by industrialization. It has been hard for Kung Fu to separate itself from the Boxers’ defeat. Even if martial artists in China could regain their status as an important part of the modern social fabric, the possibility of dissent, let alone rebellion, is almost immediately associated with the tragic failure of the Boxers and their misguided, yet brave attempts to save China from the modern world.”

continued next post

[GeneChing]

Here's the money quote on top ;) *note that I'm actually the publisher, not the ass pub. I've been so since 2017 now. :rolleyes:

Gene Ching, the associate publisher of Kung Fu Tai Chi Magazine and KungFuMagazine.com, had a different take when asked about The Boxer Uprising:

“The Boxer Uprising — ‘rebellion’ is a colonialist term that scholars are now replacing with ‘uprising’ — was really more about qigong cults than Chinese martial arts. Nevertheless, it besmirched the reputation of Kung Fu in the world’s view because qigong and Kung Fu can be difficult to separate. Symbolically, it has become the fall of Kung Fu to firearms, much like Japan’s Battle of Sekigahara. It’s notable that both Kung Fu and the secret societies that emerged as the Boxers credited the Five Elders of Shaolin myth, however the Five Elders in Kung Fu are different people than the Five Elders of the Boxers.

“The Cultural Revolution is often cited for its oppression of Kung Fu masters as being part of ‘old culture’ connected to dynastic rule, and clearly that was so. However, martial arts were still practiced. In fact, the Red Guard developed its own unique martial arts style. Keep in mind that even though firearms were now part of China, they weren’t readily available, so Kung Fu was still viable for both sides of the conflict. Modern Wushu emerges out of the Cultural Revolution too, and that’s a dramatic shift in how Chinese martial arts sees itself.

“This is a complex topic so I’m simplifying it with the ‘short’ answer.”

Professor Daniele Bolelli adds even more to this equation:

“The Boxer Rebellion created a sense of disillusionment in the efficacy of traditional martial arts since during the rebellion. It became obvious that guns could wipe out the most well trained martial artists. This led many of the traditional styles de-emphasizing the combat aspect of their art. And similarly, the Cultural Revolution led to a brutal repression against anything traditional — including the practice of martial arts. This led to a further diminishing of available knowledge.”

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Marines fight rebellious Boxers outside Peking Legation, 1900 Wikimedia Commons, via the National Archives and Records Administration

Lastly, another event was not only one of the most significant in the history of China, but to Kung Fu as well. That is the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

During the Cultural Revolution, many forms of traditional culture were targeted by the Chinese government and forced many practitioners and masters to leave, or worse, be humiliated, incarcerated, tortured or killed.

Under Communist control starting in the early 1950s, Kung Fu or Wushu was decreed as a health-enhancing performing art and denounced any “direct confrontation with an opponent.” It wasn’t until the late 1980s where free sparring events, which had been considered “too violent,” were no longer banned.

This once again added lasting effects on Kung Fu within China, creating 30 years of martial arts focused solely on health over practicality. It’s easy to see what that time period did to the art of today.

Because unlike other traditional martial arts or combat systems that positively ingrained itself into a society’s culture, China has had a love-hate relationship with theirs.

Sometimes good, but mostly bad.

The closest comparable situation to what Kung Fu has faced would be Bushido and the Samurai in Japan, but nowhere near the same extent in history or consistency, from the indirect cultural effects of the Boxers Uprising and then the more direct control by the People’s Republic of China, it’s not hard to see how Kung Fu has turned out like it has.

Is There a Future for the Chinese Martial Arts?

In Kung Fu’s staunch refusal to change or become influenced by outside cultures or ideas over time, while also confronting constant and frequent control, banning or attempts to completely eradicate practical Kung Fu, it’s almost a miracle it’s still even practiced.

Understanding Kung Fu is really understanding China, and that is far from easily done. Nonetheless, it does not negate the glaring and obvious failures of Kung Fu in combat, but it at least puts the situation into perspective.

That’s not to say however, there is no hope to be found for the Chinese arts either.

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Lavell Marshall’s instagram

According to Lavell:

“The government is putting a lot of money and effort to spread their national art [Shuai Jiao]. There is even a pro league now and it is something you can major in at the Universities there.”

There is also the UFC who has been trying to build a market for MMA in China through various events and their Ultimate Fighter series. There are also regional promotions like ONE Championship, Road FC, and Legend FC, along with the other local organizations that hosts MMA events in the country.

With Kung Fu, honestly, it all comes down to whether or not this art has the opportunity to grow and flourish without continual interference. Athletes like Lavell promoting Shuai Jiao and Kung Fu positively, and in a variety of competitions, is a good start, but one man is not enough. Cung Le and other Sanshou-based fighters have shown that the style can be successful, but overall, Kung Fu needs more consistent and reliable results over time. An outlier here and there convinces no one.

The future can be bright, specifically stemming from Shuai Jiao practitioners, but only if history does not repeat itself and allows Kung Fu the freedom to rise from the ashes.




Tell them Chuck Norris learned Tang So Do. Tang So Do teaches a form called So Rim Jang Kwan Hyung. So Rim Jang Kwan Hyung is actually the Chin Wu form Jie Quan (Jeet Kune SP?). Jie Quan comes from Long Fist Kung Fu.
That means... Chuck Norris does Kung Fu! :D
You know, if handled properly, this topic could be article worthy (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/about/guidelines.php). ;)

[Jimbo]

Interesting article, but again, what is 'Kung Fu'? The writer still says it like 'Kung Fu' is a single monolithic art with a single emphasis, which it isn't. Also, whatever MA the Chinese taught the Japanese hundreds of years ago became the basis of Jujutsu, not Karate. The Japanese didn't begin learning Karate until the early 20th century. Traditionally, many (most?) Okinawans considered themselves culturally separate and distinct from the Japanese, often identifying more with China.

I've also trained in KF schools (under Chinese teachers) where spirituality had zero emphasis. And one of those teachers was an old teacher (born around 1915). The only thing spiritual in his school was a Guan Gong altar.

[GeneChing]

After all, Shuai Jiao (https://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-dw00.html) is Kung Fu. :cool:

I'm glad he kept my closing comment:

“This is a complex topic so I’m simplifying it with the ‘short’ answer.”

[GeneChing]

Hit with the planet. READ Aggravated Gravity—Recognizing and Seizing the Opportunity to Corrupt Balance and Structure (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1639) by Phil Humphries

http://www.kungfumagazine.com//admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/images/ezine/2717_Aggravated-Gravity_Lead.jpg

Chin-Na (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?21236-Chin-Na)
Shuai-Jiao (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?6976-Shuai-Jiao)