So, i figured out how to get kicked out of a kung fu school...

[SevenStar]

As many of you know, I have a traditional background, but spent several years training judo and muay thai, which I still train currently, however last year I returned to TMA and began training in ngo cho. I am a question asker - I can't help it, it's just me. I trained regularly, both on my own and in class. I have only missed three classes in the past year, two of those were due to work.

I was shown a form and both the instructor and I were curious of the origin, so I began to look into it. During my journey, I ran across one of the five disciples of my grandmaster. he is a very open guy and once he realized I trained in his style, he became an open book and encouraged me to ask questions. So I did. I took the questions back to my instructor, who had me ask the disciple questions of his own. between my questions to the disciple and my questions to the instructor, he finally told me that he was kicking me out of the school because he thinks that I am questioning the authenticity of what he teaches and that I am improperly influencing his other student. He did agree to let me stay to continue the forms I was working on - we had sessions focusing on those so I could learn them more quickly - and now I am gone. Ironically, his other student that I was supposedly a bad influence on has now left as well.

Anyway, I found an impressive instructor who teaches bak mei and have now begun training with him. He has already encouraged me to ask questions, so it's all good so far.

[-N-]

Haha, asking questions got you kicked out of one school, but got you into another one.

What made him think you questioned his authenticity, and why was it that big a deal to him?

[sanjuro_ronin]

LOL !
I don't know what is worse, getting kicked out for asking questions are being allowed to stay so he can collect membership fees !

[Jimbo]

One door closes and another door opens.

[GeneChing]

I never ask questions for other people. Other people can ask their own questions.

Maybe you were set up. :p

[bawang]

Wat question did u ask

[SevenStar]

Haha, asking questions got you kicked out of one school, but got you into another one.

What made him think you questioned his authenticity, and why was it that big a deal to him?

I think the straw that broke the camels back was that the disciples didn't have belt ranks, however, the grandmaster DID have a belt rank system for other students - they were the "money" students, and were separate from the closed door students. one of the forms - the one we were researching, the disciple had never seen before. It was said that the grandmaster would sometimes tailor things to his belt rank students so that they could better understand principles, build attributes needed, etc - basically he made supplementary forms to help the students progress. such forms and exercises, he told the disciples not to worry about learning because it wasn't intended for them. I asked if (since we had a ranking system) it was possible that the form we were searching was a supplementary form. From there, I think he assumed that since we had belt ranks and I asked that question that I had doubts about whether or not we were learning the real curriculum or something that was created for the belt rank students, not necessarily the entire system. That really was not my intent, but I think that's how he took it.

[bawang]

lol belts lol made up forms

lol u thinking its still possible he wasnt scamming u

[rett2]

I asked if (since we had a ranking system) it was possible that the form we were searching was a supplementary form. From there, I think he assumed that since we had belt ranks and I asked that question that I had doubts about whether or not we were learning the real curriculum or something that was created for the belt rank students, not necessarily the entire system.

Whether it was your intention or not, it sounds like you hit upon the truth. And the teacher’s over-reaction, kicking you out, makes it sound even more plausible.

[rett2]

I never ask questions for other people. Other people can ask their own questions.

Sounds like good advice, thanks. Questions really can be touchy; it's bad enough with one's own.

[-N-]

It was said that the grandmaster would sometimes tailor things to his belt rank students so that they could better understand principles, build attributes needed, etc - basically he made supplementary forms to help the students progress. such forms and exercises, he told the disciples not to worry about learning because it wasn't intended for them.

Not how I do things, but I could understand.

Often, the "money" students want/need an external measure of their progress to quantify/justify what they are paying for.

They don't want to do some fundamental skill 10,000 times while paying for the priviledge to get yelled at because they are doing it wrong. Especially when they think they already know how to do it.

The teacher isn't necessarily inventing bs to scam them. He may be packaging stuff in a way to make it easy for "customers" to measure progress superficially.

[bawang]

Not how I do things, but I could understand.

Often, the "money" students want/need an external measure of their progress to quantify/justify what they are paying for.

They don't want to do some fundamental skill 10,000 times while paying for the priviledge to get yelled at because they are doing it wrong. Especially when they think they already know how to do it.

The teacher isn't necessarily inventing bs to scam them. He may be packaging stuff in a way to make it easy for "customers" to measure progress superficially.

the million dollar question is why sevenstar was seen as a money student

[SevenStar]

lol belts lol made up forms

lol u thinking its still possible he wasnt scamming u

he wasn't. his teacher is quite well known. so is the grandmaster. and the disciple I was talking to verified other forms I was learning through our conversations. no scam. the teacher is a legit instructor of this style.

[SevenStar]

the million dollar question is why sevenstar was seen as a money student


my teacher has no disciples, nor does his teacher. the grandmaster had 5. he also had money students, who had a belt system. so, several of the branches today have a belt system, I assume.

[SevenStar]

Not how I do things, but I could understand.

Often, the "money" students want/need an external measure of their progress to quantify/justify what they are paying for.

They don't want to do some fundamental skill 10,000 times while paying for the priviledge to get yelled at because they are doing it wrong. Especially when they think they already know how to do it.

The teacher isn't necessarily inventing bs to scam them. He may be packaging stuff in a way to make it easy for "customers" to measure progress superficially.

Exactly. I don't think he scammed money students. I think he just made something convenient for them. they know all of the same core forms and principles, but seems they also had other things that helped them, and possibly encouraged them, like a rank system.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Just like corporations, every school has its own culture, even within the same style. if you can understand the culture, you can then make the determination of whether or not you can really thrive there. And there are those schools that are hard to figure out because they are too busy watching you and your conduct for appropriateness.

mickey

[bawang]

my teacher has no disciples, nor does his teacher. the grandmaster had 5. he also had money students, who had a belt system. so, several of the branches today have a belt system, I assume.

Ok now I am really confused. Are those guys Chinese

[SevenStar]

Ok now I am really confused. Are those guys Chinese the grandmaster and the disciple, yes. my teacher and his teacher, no.

[rett2]

Still... kicking someone out for having doubts and asking questions. That sounds like a teacher trying to shelter bad ideas, someone pushing an authority trip, or feeling threatened by transparency.

[bawang]

often times you hear "legit" "real deal" but that is only within confines of kung fu. highest lvl kung fu guy is same level as barely competent muay thai guy. in qing dynasty beijing had the highest standard level of martial arts and it was highly competitive and attracted ppl from all over the country.. there was not a single southern kung fu style who made it. and southern systems are notorious for keeping simple things secret like abdominal bracing and holding up your hands to protect the face. so whether the teacher is legit or not is meaningless.

the important thing is u shouldve asked the question on the first day and save yourself the trouble.

[SteveLau]

SevenStar,

I did similar thing when I was in senior high school. I asked another teacher question on Chinese Language subject right before the eye of the teacher who was teaching our class the subject. It was not meant to be disrespectful, but being young is a mistake. My teacher showed face of unhappiness. However, he did not do anything else to me. So IMHO, your story shows that your instructor was not tolerant enough. First, he was not certain of your intention. Second, even you did question his authenticity, he should at most only asked you "Do you believe my training authenticity now?"



Regards,

Steve Lau
Hong Kong

[BSL-Chris]

Sounds dodgey to me. I was always encouraged to ask questions of my teacher, so long as they were not stupid ones that would get me an hour push in horse stance! ;)

[David Jamieson]

One door closes and another door opens.

This usually indicates a poor seal.

[bawang]

肛门 is best 门

[Tim.G]

I don't think the instructor was scamming either I think sometimes instructors reconstruct forms and lesson to suit the practitioner so they grasp concepts and techniques and over time when ready dropping in the more technical aspects in...also this keeps the students interested to so they don't end up giving up...which also keeps the school alive

[bawang]

I don't think the instructor was scamming either I think sometimes instructors reconstruct forms and lesson to suit the practitioner so they grasp concepts and techniques and over time when ready dropping in the more technical aspects in...also this keeps the students interested to so they don't end up giving up...which also keeps the school alive

commercially viable martial art schools are so 1989 bro

do u even cultural death knell bro