One form to rule them all...

[SevenStar]

If you could only work one form for the rest of eternity, which one would it be and why?

[SPJ]

1 Single whip posture in tai ji fist.
Both arms extended with a horse riding stance. Fully open stance.


2 Liang Yi Ding in Ba Ji.

Both elbows extended with a horse riding stance.

3 Green Dragon extending claws in Ba Gua.
The waist is rotated.

4 Low kick stance in Tan Tui.
Most important stance

5 Double Hook hands in Tang Lang.
Two hands against one arm.

etc etc.

They are the corner stone stances in each style.

Every thing else may derive from these basic stances.

:cool:

[mickey]

Greetings SevenStar,

I do not think there is any form that teaches exactly what "now" is.

The only form that comes close involves the words "point and squeeze the trigger" at the beginning stages of instruction.


mickey

[SPJ]

What you need is to know the start point and the end point.

And understanding every thing in between.

How to start and arrive at the end.

:cool:

[SevenStar]

Greetings SevenStar,

I do not think there is any form that teaches exactly what "now" is.

The only form that comes close involves the words "point and squeeze the trigger" at the beginning stages of instruction.


mickey

I'm not saying that's the only thing you train - I'm saying if that was the only form. spar, drill, firearms, etc - fine. but for the forms portion of your training, if you only kept one form, which one.

[bawang]

the question is moot because every kung fu style basically has one main form.

[SevenStar]

the question is moot because every kung fu style basically has one main form.

that's part of why I am asking. I am expecting certain forms - jik bo, san zhan, tan tui, sanchin, etc.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I would pick a good Shaolin 12 line Tan Tui.

Why?

1- In many ways it is a dictionary of martial movement. It encompasses striking, grappling and throwing.

2- Offers great conditioning.

3- Continued practice and study unveils new understandings via body mechanics and via martial applications.

4- Unlike what some people say, given the aforementioned, it is never boring. It can be quite a task, but never boring.


mickey

[sanjuro_ronin]

Iron wire, simply because it can be done in different ways to elicit different responses.

[YouKnowWho]

I have created a new form called "长拳摘要 Long Fist Summary". It combines all the forms that I have learned into a 84 moves form.

Why?

I have read books all my life. It's time to write my own books.

[boxerbilly]

I am definitely buying John's books !

[Jimbo]

Offhand, I can't think of any single CLF form I would pick as my one and only. I personally practice far fewer forms than most CLF people do, and fewer than I've learned. But I don't see any one as 'having it all'.

Much of my 'form/movement' practice involves various short (2 to 4 movement) CLF combinations with footwork. Some are practical combos I've taken from sets and others I've combined myself from my own experience. These are pre-set combos with important basic elements of attack/defense, strike, kick, trap/sweep, throw, etc. Then I also practice free-form/freestyling, combining and recombining these movements in different ways in a fluid, workable manner without much thought. This is not for show, but to bypass the logical, thinking mind. These are not things I would ever teach or 'pass down', as the choices would be different for every person.

There are lots of kung fu practitioners who train their forms and applications, but if you never learn to freestyle with it, there will always be a big divide; it will never become natural for you or become your own. It also most likely won't come out during sparring or in real life.

Just my 2 cents, nothing more.

[bawang]

pick one form is like asking to eat only one food. there is no one food that you can only eat and not gradually die from malnutrition. it is a broken question.

forms dont have combat basics anyways so to treat them seriously is itself a grave danger. i can make up a great looking "authentic traditional" form out of my ass right now under 5 min, and i can tell some naive kung fu nerd to practice it 100 times a day.

[Jimbo]

Most forms (with the exception of sets focusing mostly on kung/gong development) are stylized representations of fighting movements strung together in sequences. The movements and postures are stylistically idealized, if that makes any sense. They develop another type of body-mind discipline, but in themselves cannot teach one how to fight, although they can supplement attributes such as certain types of body awareness, coordination, balance, agility, etc. BUT, there are movements/short combinations that can be taken out of a form and adapted for fighting, as long as you know what you're doing. The key word is "adapted". The adapted movements will not necessarily 'look' exactly like they do in the form.

[David Jamieson]

Iron thread.

It's good for your body.

[David Jamieson]

pick one form is like asking to eat only one food. there is no one food that you can only eat and not gradually die from malnutrition. it is a broken question.

forms dont have combat basics anyways so to treat them seriously is itself a grave danger. i can make up a great looking "authentic traditional" form out of my ass right now under 5 min, and i can tell some naive kung fu nerd to practice it 100 times a day.

One form doesn't exclude lifting weight, practice weapons, drills, sparring etc.

Heck, in some styles, after you learn ten forms, you string them all together into one long ass form anyway. ;)

[YouKnowWho]

I like to get the best result from my training. There is a combo sequence in the form that I have created that contains:

- left roundhouse kick,
- right toes push kick,
- right wrist lock,
- left wrist lock,
- right side kick,
- left turn back kick,
- right roundhouse kick,
- right hammer fist,
- right straight punch.

Sometime I just train this small piece of form, Since it contains

- right front kick,
- right/left round house kick,
- right/left side kick,

I can maintain most of my kicking skill through my daily training. Since I can't find a small section of form that can contain this much information, I have to create it myself. Of course, I have borrowed some moves from the

- Mai Fu Chuan,
- 3rd road Pao Chuan,
- Tai Zhu long fist.

[GeneChing]

This is a tough question for me because my answer changes over time. To maintain your Middle Earth metaphor SevenStar, whenever I get a fav form, middle age sneaks up like gollum, bites of my finger, and then dives into the fiery pit of Mount Doom with it. Which is to say my 'one form' changes as my body has changed.

Perhaps a more telling question is 'what form do you do daily?' I started a thread that was somewhat related to this back in 2010: What forms are in your Shaolin regimen now? (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?56233-What-forms-are-in-your-Shaolin-regimen-now). Shoot, I should update that sometime...I'm way behind on it. :o

[Jimbo]

For me, variety is the spice of life. One form exclusively for the rest of my life would become boring. Of course, quality trumps quantity, and knowing one thing really well is far better than knowing many things superficially. But it's good to train the body to move in different ways. Otherwise, it's easy to become stale, both physically and mentally. That doesn't mean the form has to be showy.

Obviously, this does not exclude all the other aspects of training. But the subject here is regarding forms.

Even the 2 to 4-move combinations I mentioned earlier that I practice have a rotation. I have maybe a half-dozen of them I'll practice extensively for a couple months, then replace them with a half-dozen variations, or totally different ones. Then I'll do the same thing two months later. Then eventually rotate back to the original set of combinations. They all contain the same CLF basics, streamlined. With this method, you can create an almost infinite number of variations. It's not accumulating more and more material, but simply using what you already have in different ways, to develop greater flexibility of action/response.

[mickey]

Greetings,

The way that SevenStar put it, I saw it as the form you would always come back to for practice and as a source material for ongoing study. I did not see the robotics that is being described here.

mickey

[MightyB]

This is a tough question for me because my answer changes over time. To maintain your Middle Earth metaphor SevenStar, whenever I get a fav form, middle age sneaks up like gollum, bites of my finger, and then dives into the fiery pit of Mount Doom with it. Which is to say my 'one form' changes as my body has changed.

This has been my experience as well. I think it's tough to answer with just one form because it changes over time. I've found that every form contains an aspect that's worth studying deeply. For me, right now it's the "second essential" form in our style.

[uki]

If you could only work one form for the rest of eternity, which one would it be and why?bruce lee was quipped at saying be like water... i say... be like nature. the only true form is that which comes from within ones own essence. :)

[SevenStar]

This has been my experience as well. I think it's tough to answer with just one form because it changes over time. I've found that every form contains an aspect that's worth studying deeply. For me, right now it's the "second essential" form in our style.

What are you traiing in now? I remember before I left that it was judo and san shou.

[MightyB]

What are you traiing in now? I remember before I left that it was judo and san shou.

7 star mantis.

But I competed in San shou back in the 90s. I wasn't that good. So I crosstrained with judo because I found out that I was terrible at take downs whilst getting my arse kicked in one of the aforementioned San shou events. I continued with judo for about 10 years because it's really fun. Now I just do 7 star mantis.

In the mantis I study there are 3 forms called essential routines. My phonetic Cantonese is terrible but the names sound like "yet lo jet you, yi lo jet you, and San lo jet you." I do the first but it's not on my list of favorite forms, but I really dig the 2nd and 3rd.

[Jimbo]

In the mantis I study there are 3 forms called essential routines. My phonetic Cantonese is terrible but the names sound like "yet lo jet you, yi lo jet you, and San lo jet you." I do the first but it's not on my list of favorite forms, but I really dig the 2nd and 3rd.

In Mandarin, those would be the Zhai Yao (Essentials) forms; Yi Lu (first road), Er Lu (second road) and San Lu (third road) Zhai Yao. Of course you know that already. I trained Mantis (7 Star and 8 Step) for 10 years before switching to CLF. I always think of northern style terms in Mandarin, because I studied northern styles in Taiwan.

[bawang]

once you stop caring about forms and do some real training your forms will look amazing.

people who obsess about forms look the worst. floppy rabbit feet/ruber leg syndrome/snail centaur syndrome.

[Faux Newbie]

Another aspect is that training the same thing all the time for ages is sometimes not even good for that one thing. Often. I can't count the number of times working on other things for a while and coming back later to something gave me a much broader or more detailed perspective on it that advanced my practice.

In addition, I find a huge difference between performing a form and analyzing and training its content. The latter is my preferred practice. I mostly return to the former to look for aspects of its content that hadn't made it into my to do list of things to work on.

[David Jamieson]

once you stop caring about forms and do some real training your forms will look amazing.

people who obsess about forms look the worst. floppy rabbit feet/ruber leg syndrome/snail centaur syndrome.

The first step in learning the true martial arts happens when you get punched in the face with a hardness you've never felt before.
Then, the work starts on figuring out how to achieve that. lol

[Faux Newbie]

What on earth is a snail centaur?

[Lucas]

None.

I would simply abandon all.

However if I had a gun to my head and had to pick I would likely choose Chen old frame with personal adjustments. Strong , solid techniques, inherent adaptability, and I like longfist.

[bawang]

What on earth is a snail centaur?

like their torso attached to snail legs. tense arms flailing around and legs shuffle with energy of homeless guy.

None.

I would simply abandon all.

However if I had a gun to my head and had to pick I would likely choose Chen old frame with personal adjustments. Strong , solid techniques, inherent adaptability, and I like longfist.

bery good u converted to mighty chen style

r u doing the wobbly wobbbly

[RenDaHai]

Gong Fu is the unity of knowledge and action.

In the normal mode of experience we think of something and dictate to our body to perform the action desired.

In the extreme mode of experience our body dictates what we should think. It overpowers us with involuntary action and emotion.

But in the profound mode of experience both are in perfect harmony. Gong fu.

This is true of all ritual. An action performed such that it is neither dictated nor resisted by mind or body. From this mode of experience inspirations will arise in the mind and new abilities will arise in the body. (in-spire; lit. to 'breath in' but also to be 'breathed into' from without)

Your body doesn't understand words or principles, it understands action and stillness. This is the way the body reads and learns. Forms are the books and classics of the body. It is strong to limit yourself to one topic, but don't limit yourself to one book. It is a mistake to become too familiar with a form lest you lose engagement of the mind, and similarly being too inexperienced with a form will put too much pressure on the body. To keep both mind and body in a state of harmony, movement must be equal parts known and unknown, expected and unexpected, potential and actual, fixed and changeable.

But how? Do the movements as though you are genuinely creatively reacting to your opponent, not as though they are some sequence of a dance, something already written. Though the pattern IS set, it is recreated not repeated each time it is performed. For this it is essential that the symbol, that is, the form mimics the action. That is to say the movement looks the same in form as in application. This is not to say that the principle of a technique cannot be extended to take on new purpose, of course it can and should, but it has been recorded as it is because that is a concrete example of how it may be used.

There is no need to train form to become a fighter. When we fight the action itself is overwhelmed by its intense purpose. To train form alone is to perform action for its own sake and is in itself a wonderful practice albeit an inherently mysterious one. It is mysterious because it is done for no specific purpose, by having no expected purpose many un-foreseen results will arise as if from nothing.

[Lucas]

like their torso attached to snail legs. tense arms flailing around and legs shuffle with energy of homeless guy.


bery good u converted to mighty chen style

r u doing the wobbly wobbbly

Herr ya broh! I hurt my back pretty bad in early 2016 by injuring my spine so it's been a slow climb but I feel like the wobbles helps keep my spine strong. Instead of doing the pt I went to my Chen instead and I've been pleased with my results. I'm looking for someone to study under now. I started learning taijiquan from Gregory Fong Sifu RIP, so my standards are high and my schedule is jacked up so I'm just doing my own thing for the time being...

[yeshe]

The Gong zi fu hu chuan,there are a lot of basic nuts and bolts kind of techniques . If you really pick it apart there is a lot to be learned from it, and training in it is good exercise anyway .

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

All the forms in the Tai tzu are designed to be practiced back to back without stopping. I would just do that.

[MightyB]

The first step in learning the true martial arts happens when you get punched in the face with a hardness you've never felt before.
Then, the work starts on figuring out how to achieve that. lol

It's the first time you block a trained fighter who's trying to knock you the F out. It's a surreal moment of "holy crap, this is happening".

[David Jamieson]

It's the first time you block a trained fighter who's trying to knock you the F out. It's a surreal moment of "holy crap, this is happening".

Uh...shouldn't you be a trained fighter too?

lol.

[MightyB]

Uh...shouldn't you be a trained fighter too?

lol.

If this is your reply, then you've obviously never been there!

Ooohhhh Burn! :p

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/OohBurn.gif