difference between the self-defense and the self-defense for women

[Castlevania]

Give me your thoughts.

[The Willow Sword]

i have some experience in this relm. Womens self defense is a lotmore intensive than say a regular male or even co-ed self defense class. women are more likely to be attacked than men,,and more likely to be attacked from behind or blindsided.
when i have taught self defense in mixed classes i try to make it practical for the women.
in self defense classes we tend to get more theoretical than practical. the simplist action is far often the better action.and most women do not have the strength to bind a man down, or do things that would take more strength to execute rather than say "running from your attacker or say yelling out FIRE instead of HELP. i think that lack of awareness and fear kill more women a year than car accidents do.
some statistics: more women are attacked or raped by someone they know.
most attack cases and violence with women happen at HOME rather than say "at a bar".
FACT: carrying a hand gun in your purse will not make you any safer. it will make you FEEL safer,,and that is what kills women as well.
reason? the attack will happen when you least expect i to and it will ,9 times out of ten, come from behind or to the side.

i advocate the carrying of a fire arm LEGALLY and with training. and to those women who read this that have a gun. if you have to walk across that parking lot at night, grab your gun and hold it close. that will increase the chances of survival and when the atacker sees what you have in your hand at the time,,HE WILL not attack you.
those are my thoughts,
MAny Respects Willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
Luke?! Luke?! dont give into hate. That leads to the dark side.
Obi Wan Kenobi,,star wars, empire strikes back.

[sniper]

JUST MY OPINION

The difference between self-defense for men and for women, the way I see it, is that for women, there are no "rules of engagement" so to speak.
If a man is attacked, it seems, whether in a bar, or on the street, and I'll say by up to two attackers, it seems that society holds that man to a "minimal force as necessary" policy. Meaning that if he goes too far in the eyes of the court, he goes to jail. A woman, on the other hand, can maim, cripple or kill an assailant with practically no questions asked.
It is just how society is made.
If a man attacks another man, it is a fight.
If a man attacks a woman, it is a self-defense situation.
If a man kills a man in self-defense, and he happens to be a 5th degree black belt, he is a "lethal weapon" and a bunch of legal trash comes into play, like "did he warn the attacker first" and junk like that.
If a woman kills a man in self-defense, and she is a 5th degree black belt in the same school, she was "excersizing self-defense". No one would label a woman as a "trained killer"
Don't get me wrong, I love women, and I am not a shovanist pig or anything like that, but my point is, men have to be a lot more careful about how they react to a situation than a woman. There is nothing wrong with that, because to a point men have that choice, where women do not. That's just how it is.

[joedoe]

I do not think the way self defence is taught for men and women should be different in content (after all, what works should work regardless of sex), but should emphasise certain things more for women.

I believe that situational awareness is a must for teaching self defence, but especially so for women. It is far better not to get into a situation where confrontational self defence becomes necessary.

Another point in all self defence but especially so for women, is that the aim is not to beat your attacker down, but to get away safely.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[Robinf]

The difference in self-defense for men and women is that women tend to be physically smaller and weaker than their attacker. As stated, men are the more likely attackers of women, and men tend to be stronger and bigger than the women they attack (men aren't stupid--they're going to attack targets they "can take").

It's not that women are more likely than men to be attacked. I think the attacks are pretty even. It's just that when men go to attack women, it's often (though not only) for rape. Men get attacked, it's for money or pride. But, both sexes still get attacked.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[shaolinboxer]

I think it is in the mind. In our society, women are generally conditoned not to be agressive.

The book "Real Knockouts" addresses this topic (although I have a lot of issue with this book due to the writers lack of extended experience).

Men already have permission from society to be agressive, so learning to defend themselves is a bit less life changing.

Although, as women's sports become more popular, this is changing.

[Dan_uk]

Some very interesting points made.

I would just like to say that I have held a couple of ladies self defence seminars and I am hopefully going to run a class soon.

Before running the seminars I looked at what other ladies self defence seminars consisted of and also asked ladies who have been on these seminars what they thought.

I was shocked to find that some ladies actually felt confident that they could defend themselves after learning what they had done in a 2 hr seminar. But what they had larned were complicated techniques such as locks, throws, sweeps and chokes.

As it was said earlier there is such a size difference between the two sexes that a little 17yr old girl is not going to finger lock a 40yr old truck driver and part time hells angel.

I feel theory is important and making them aware that they are not going to leave the seminar or course invincible. I stress that I am going to show them the options they have and stress that if one thing stays in the back of their mind then it is something useful that hopefully they won't have to use. Make them aware of what they may be up against, make them aware that avoidance through awareness is very important and also stress that the main aim if confronted is to escape asap.

Then I teach simple techniques that anyone can do, not needing any strength. A young girl might not be able to throw a man but she might have an opportunity to stick a finger in his eye.

After training techniques I then touch on the mental state to be in, explain the idea of fear and what they will experience, alot of people don't know what adrenaline feels like and assume this is fearand therefore freeze instead of fight or flight.

I have to admit that I have had a very good response so far from the participants and a few have commented how they feel that the seminar that I did was alot more practical than the seminars they had previously attended.

Its a shame that there are people out there teaching complicated stuff and ladies are actually thinking they can pull this stuff off.

apologies if i've gone on a bit.

Everyone has the right to defend themselves effectively.

[zen_celt]

Recently I was asked to teach some basic self-defesne to a female friend of mine. I am no sifu or anything, and having told her this, she still asked me to teach her some rudimentary techniques. Before I did, I read a few books specifically dealing with women's self-defense. In the course of reading these and your guys' posts, I can't find any differences between them and practical street survival skills. In a true self-defense situation, I would almost never advocate anyone attempting to wrestle or prolong a fight with an attacker. I would use, and reccomend using whatever will drop the attacker in the most expedient manner and result in the least danger for the victim. I also reccomend being aware of surroundings at all times. These are all things that are taught to people in MA classes. I don't see why "women's self-defense" should differ from men's. Or even that it does. I can understand the need for a women only environment for training purposes as it can help people relax, learn etc. but the general principles are the same. Hit hard, hit fast, run away and get help. This is not new. Am I wrong or am I missing something?
-ZC

"The thorn *****s only those who would harm the rose."

[Kristoffer]

Ladies seminars for self defece usually SUCK, (since im a guy i havent been to one) But I have seen pics and video from some and it is ridiculous

~K~
"maybe not in combat.. but think of the chicks man, the chicks!" -- someone on the subject of back-flips in combat --

[Robinf]

zen_celt,

You're right. The techniques and so forth are the same. Some folks set aside seminars and charge more money by calling it "women's self defense"--giving the impression that it's engineered specifically for women. It's not. It's the same stuff.

Kind of like the concept behind "lady's razors"--they're the same razors, just with a pink handle.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[Convergence]

Good question Castlevania...

I believe that the art, regardless of the name, should work equally well for both sexes.

With that being said, I would rather see a female teach an all female class; especially in the early levels.

I would think that the shared, everyday experiences would translate into a closer relationship/understanding between student and teacher. This "common ground" should add to the enjoyment of the learning process.

Once the female student reaches a certain level of experience, I would rather see males playing the part of the opponent in order to add realism.

Regardless of how the knowledge is transferred from teacher to the student, I still believe that the art should work equally well for both sexes.

As I plan to one day open my own kwoon, I would greatly appreciate a woman's viewpoint and thoughts on the matter. Thanks in advance.

Humbly,

Convergence


"Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility." - Proverbs 18:12

[The Willow Sword]

I would say that it does not really matter what sex the instructoe is in the WSD class. the women that i have talked to prefer a man to teach the class,,someone who is willing to share as much info about our weaknesses as possible. not discounting of course women instructors,,we have some great ones at SD especially master Joe's wife
Cheryl who hosts an ALL womens sparring class.
one thing that i try to impart to women is that ,we men when we are drunk or sexxed up are really trying to get at that one thing,,this is in the date rape cases,,in this instance since it is someone you know or who are aquainted enpough to go out with ,,you can use your feminine wiles to take advantage of our apparent erection to the situation. be an actress allow us to let our guard down. make us THINK that we are going to get the time of our life,,and the second that opening occurs BAM! i would not concern myself with the law at this point,,alot of people do nowadays when you can sue anyone for just about anything. also in the extreme cases of attackes by a stranger it is vital to know that it is not about SEX with these types of attacks,,it is about power and extreme mental illness. these are the cases that result in women dying in this country.
just a note to women who are in MA schools. the sparring that you do is NOT what is going to happen to you on the street. it is not going to be a straight up face to face fight. he is going to grab you,,knock you down,,try to hit you in an area where you will go unconcious,,and the attack is going to be brutal. in most cases a confident women with an awareness of her surroundings will be less likely a victim. plus i cannot stress more the need for personal protection such as a gun aquired legally and with the proper training. believe me you can thoerize ALL you want about how to do this and how to do that when some one is choking you or grabbing you or whatever. it is a totally different story when it is ACTUALLY HAPPENING,,,these thoughtd that i have come from conversations with women who have been attacked and by women who work in nonprofit organizations such as the TAASA organization(texas association against sexual assault). but it would help in this discussion to have a woman on the forum who has had to really deal with an attack as i have described, and survived it. if it is not too painfull to share the info with us.

Many Respects,,Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
Luke?! Luke?! dont give into hate. That leads to the dark side.
Obi Wan Kenobi,,star wars, empire strikes back.

[Castlevania]

Thank you,I liked all the answers,hope there are more to come.

[Robinf]

Willow Sword,

A gun isn't going to make any difference if it's not in the hand at all times. Attacks happen faster than blinking. Unless you have that gun at the ready, it's really not going to do much good.

A better way is to train appropriately--being attacked from behind, from the side, being grabbed, falling down--learn to fight in any circumstance, not just the stand up sparring sport we all have fun with.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[dmsdc]

I haven't yet been to a self-defense course - I've trained for about 8 years -- 3 years of judo & 5 years of Pangainoon (uechi family style).

I have to say that without the judo -- (the ground awareness, being in the situation of having men much larger than I on top of me and not moving, being grabbed & thrown from behind) -- that I would be totally thrown out of my element in a real attack. But with those years of training - I know more what can happen and I know more what works.

I am very, very concerned by 1 day, 2 day, or 3 day seminars for women. There is a group here in DC that offers a 5-week course. This, I think, is a better format. Repetition of stress-based situations, repetition of adrenal dump situations, repetition of attacks.

Many defense seminars teach eye strikes -- and yet I read in woman's magazine once that 80% of the women who learned this technique said they probably wouldn't use it because it was "too gross" or "too mean". You see, that socialization thing takes over again -- many, many women will wait until it is too late to do "mean" things.

So I think the seminars should be:
1) at least over a period of 6 weeks
2) include adrenal-stress scenario training
(a bad guy in a suit calling the women bad names & taking them to the ground from behind)
3) awareness training
4) practice in shouting mean things at "bad guys"
5) practice (somehow) doing very mean things. I.e. have the women hit something that is very "eye like" so they know what it feels like and they know they can do it". Have them pinch something that feels like soft tissue so they can feel the same things.
6) beginning levels must be all-female except for the "bad guy" who MUST be male.
7) the women need to take a good strong hit -- somehow in a way that won't damage anything but might bruise them -- so they know what it feels like to be hit and so they know that they can keep going.

As I said before, it took me about 3 years of regular training to get to the point where I could do these things. So I just can't imagine how a 1 or 2 day seminar can do much of anything other than to create a false sense of secuity.

cheers,
Dana

"I have been in
sorrow's kitchen and
licked out all the pots.
Then I have stood on
the peaky mountain
wrapped in rainbows,
with a harp and a
sword in my hands." -
Zora Neale Hurston

[The Willow Sword]

we are in agreement,,,,,,read my first post.
Many Respects,Willow SWord

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
Luke?! Luke?! dont give into hate. That leads to the dark side.
Obi Wan Kenobi,,star wars, empire strikes back.

[Robinf]

Sorry, Willow, I didn't remember that. But then why did you write this in your second post:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>plus i cannot stress more the need for personal protection such as a gun aquired legally and with the proper training. [/quote]

That's what I was responding to.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.