Stance traning Q...

[Apprentice]

i've heard about the benefits of stance training, and i understand them, i would like to incorporate that into my training, but for those that dont know, i do not study an art besides my own...I use things from other arts, i've gotten lots of wisdom from this site, and im happy i came here(very)...

But what are some good stances to practice? And why? Why is important so i can understand the principle of em, and modify it without taking out any of the important things...Describe the stance too, so i know what it looks like...Feet location, bend knees how far, hands where, elbows where, back how, all the details, anyone who takes an art should have atleast 1 answer, and any of them would be greatly appretiated, thanx, bye...


"True victory is giving all of yourself without regret"-Ryu

[Robinf]

On the one hand, all of us pay quite a bit of money for those stances, why should we give them to you for free?

On the other hand, if you're too lazy to go to class, then why should we take up our time to help you?

On yet another hand, what do you look to get from stances?

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[Apprentice]

On the one hand, all of us pay quite a bit of money for those stances, why should we give them to you for free?


I realize what your saying, i apologize, im just seeking knowledge from those willing to give it...

On the other hand, if you're too lazy to go to class, then why should we take up our time to help you?

It's not that i'm too lazy, there IS no classes in my area i would like to take, only karate(sorry, not interested)...I'm interested in arts such as, Wing Chun, JKD, Nin-Jit-Su, Muy Thai, Jiu-Jit-Su, and Wrestling(yes, its a martial art for those that did not know, aka. Grappling)


On yet another hand, what do you look to get from stances?


A sense of direction i suppose, how I should look at my (and others) stances, how i should position my center of gravity n exactly why, what hand placements give optimum coverage, and how i would develop my muscles properly for a real fight situation in order to preform at maximum quality...


If my answers make you feel that you can answer, the answer will be greatly appretiated, if not, then i respect your reasons whatever they may be, Knowledge is power, i'm just seeking the best workout machine ;)

"True victory is giving all of yourself without regret"-Ryu

"Your best move is the move you regret not doing"-Fei Long

"Are you prepared to fight today? Someone else is as we speak"-Apprentice

[Robinf]

To develop muscles properly for "fighting" (whatever that means), I'll suggest Dynamic Strength by Harry Wong. It's a good, sensible book for equipment free strength building.

As far as stances, we can give them to you, but knowing if you're doing them properly is impossible. Practicing something wrong is worse than not practicing at all. Personally, I feel it would be irresponsible to instruct you in any kind of direction without being their to guide your development in person.

Robin

Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

[IronFist]

Apprentice said: Nin-Jit-Su... Jiu-Jit-Su

Alright dude, you really don't need hyphens. But if you do, please seperate them by their Japanese syllables:

Nin-ju-tsu

Ju-Ji-tsu

Yeah, "tsu" is a Japanese letter. By the way, unless you're talking to Ashida Kim, you should say ninjutsu, not ninjitsu. And if you don't know who Ashida Kim is, don't worry, you're better off that way :)

Iron

[Abstract]

u live in NY and can't find a school? How close to the city are you? :confused:

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In mildness is the strength of steel

[Kung Lek]

oN the other hand... you have different fingers.

Horse, deep and low. Now sit, keep sitting...ok take a break....now sit again.

next, Bow and arrow...hold it, hold it, hold it...

moving right along, empty leg, hold, now step, hold now step...

Kao Ma, now lower, now up, now the other side, now Tiger Crouches in tall grass, now the other side... now reverse bow, now shoot the duck and... repeat.

that ought to hold ya.

Don't be a sissy in that horse stance either! Lower!!!!

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[SaMantis]

Pick up this book from Amazon.com or at the bookstore, it's still in print.

If you're looking for in-depth explanation on stances, a little bit of theory, and pictures to go along with it, this is a great book to start with. Should answer some of your questions and give you the basic stances to work with.

Not that I'm endorsing this book over others; I just happen to have a copy at home. And it doesn't cover the other arts you're interested in, like wing chun, BJJ, etc.

I'd still recommend getting an instructor to help you out. Even if it means driving to one private lesson a month in another town/city. Some details just can't be covered in a book.

Sam

Umm ... yeahhhhhh ... that's grrrreat ... -- Lumbergh

[nospam]

Robin, just how many hands do you have!? :)

Go purchase or rent a few instructional vids, that'll help you.

If I may: "i've heard about the benefits of stance training, and i understand them..But what are some good stances to practice? And why? Why is important so i can understand the principle of em,"

I guess your first statement was false :)

nospam.

[Apprentice]

To Iron- Sorry, not familiar with japanese spellings, thanx for the corrections though, and i guess im better off(i dont know ashida kim)

To umm, the guy that asked me how close i was to the city- Sorry i forgot ur name, but im not close to the city at all, about 6 hr drive, and i dont drive, so its a pretty long walk, im 17 wit no lisence =(

To Kung Lek- I've heard of some of those stances, but i dont know what they look like, if i knew them, your words were encouraging ("Dont be a wuss with that horse stance, DEEPER" or something) :)

To Sa Mantis- Thanx, i'll look into that book when i can find a job

To nospam- I said "i have heard of the benefits of stance training and i understand them"...u said that statement was false...to correct you, Learning a stance will teach you to lower yourself as you strike to maximize your Root/Overall power...so, i HAVE Heard of the benefits, and i do understand the BENEFITS...maybe a misunderstanding on my part, yet maybe yours

"True victory is giving all of yourself without regret"-Ryu

"Your best move is the move you regret not doing"-Fei Long

"Are you prepared to fight today? Someone else is as we speak"-Apprentice

[Apprentice]

To Iron- Sorry, not familiar with japanese spellings, thanx for the corrections though, and i guess im better off(i dont know ashida kim)

To umm, the guy that asked me how close i was to the city- Sorry i forgot ur name, but im not close to the city at all, about 6 hr drive, and i dont drive, so its a pretty long walk, im 17 wit no lisence =(

To Kung Lek- I've heard of some of those stances, but i dont know what they look like, if i knew them, your words were encouraging ("Dont be a wuss with that horse stance, DEEPER" or something) :)

To Sa Mantis- Thanx, i'll look into that book when i can find a job

To nospam- I said "i have heard of the benefits of stance training and i understand them"...u said that statement was false...to correct you, Learning a stance will teach you to lower yourself as you strike to maximize your Root/Overall power...so, i HAVE Heard of the benefits, and i do understand the BENEFITS...maybe a misunderstanding on my part, yet maybe yours

TO ALL: Anyone else got some more stances/descriptions?

"True victory is giving all of yourself without regret"-Ryu

"Your best move is the move you regret not doing"-Fei Long

"Are you prepared to fight today? Someone else is as we speak"-Apprentice

[SaMantis]

Ah, so there's a money/transportation problem. That can be pretty tough. But I've been there, too.

-- Check out the library for any MA books or videos. That's your first step.

-- Is there a college within biking distance? There's almost always a martial arts club run by the students, and some clubs allow high-schoolers to join. The membership fee can be really cheap (my judo club in college charged $5 a semester). Most colleges offer some type of self-defense classes; check out the college paper and its website.

-- keep up your training. Stay in shape so that when you get the opportunity to train MA you'll be ready to go all out.

In the meantime, I can give you pointers on riding horse stance (ma bu, say ping ma, whatever else folks call it).

Spread your legs to about one and 1/2 shoulder width. Bend your knees (like Kung Lek says: lower!).

Put your arms out front in a "prayer" position (like a monk; palms pressed together, arms rounded and shoulder level). Look straight ahead, not up or down. STAY RELAXED. (but not "floppy")

Keep your feet flat on the floor, toes pointed straight ahead (or just slightly inward). Tuck your butt in. When you bend your knees, try and push them outward. You'll notice a tendency for your feet to turn outward as you do this; don't let them. You should feel a nice stretch in your hip and ankle joints but not pain. However your leg muscles will start shakin' and achin' in just a few seconds.

Try to hold the stance in one place for 10 long, slow breaths. Concentrate on keeping your butt tucked and your shoulders relaxed.

If your knees start to hurt come up right away. Don't try to push your stance lower if you feel pain in your joints.

After a couple of months you'll start feeling more relaxed and your body will start "sinking" lower into the stance.

Do the horse stance at the beginning of your workout, just after a light warmup. 3-5 minutes (or longer) in the stance will get you sweating; then go on and do stretches and work out.

Anyway, this is just my experience and I hope it helps you out.

:)

Sam

Umm ... yeahhhhhh ... that's grrrreat ... -- Lumbergh

[Apprentice]

thanx Sa Mantis, that was an EXTREMLY good answer, thanx, that helps loads, very much appretiated, i did plan on stayin in shape b4 i got into MA so i could do my best, and even though u told me to do somethin i already planned on doing, it motivated me to do it more so, thanx...

and the college thing, good idea, i hope there is 1 in a college nearby, i'll check on the net for some sites for em...

1 question, does anybody use the horse stance as a fighting stance by a chance?(heh, rhymed)...if not, is there any relation from a fighting stance to a horse stance?

"True victory is giving all of yourself without regret"-Ryu

"Your best move is the move you regret not doing"-Fei Long

"Are you prepared to fight today? Someone else is as we speak"-Apprentice

[Xebsball]

There ya go, some valuable stuff:

http://www.cyberkwoon.com/html/article.php?sid=126
http://www.cyberkwoon.com/html/article.php?sid=63
http://www.cyberkwoon.com/html/article.php?sid=139

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"I AM EFFECTIVNESS"

[Xebsball]

And yes, horse stance can be used in fighting.

-------------------------
"I AM EFFECTIVNESS"

[joedoe]

An important point to remember while practicing stances:

Keep your back straight.

I agree that you really should get someone to teach you this properly, but if that is not an option then you can only do what you can do. It is good that at least you have the drive to learn in whichever way you can.

I personally would not advocate over-use of the horse stance in a fight situation. Rather, I see it as a transition stance from one position to another. But everyone has a different philosophy on the horse stance.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[SevenStar]

take Karate dude. Whether you want to or not, it'll give you a good MA base - much better than you tring to train on your own from tapes and pur advice. Also, you will see many of the same stances in karate in kung fu, so you won't be in the dark while hearing us discuss them here or whenever you are able to train in kung fu somewhere.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[Shaolin36]

If you are interested in any one certain style, learn the stances that pertain to that style. Almost every style has a form for its stances(usually beginner). Go over this form repeatedly, then when you proficient in going through the stances quikly and succinctly, add weight to your body(vest)and begin to hold them. Adding a 10-20 seconds every day day or 2 days, soon your stances will be unmovable. Hence-"hard work"(kung Fu)

[SantaClaus]

karate= not good base, stiff base, hip movement, but not the full leg extention that powers punches tan tui style. Also styles such as Waiji Ryu tuck the knee in and close up the hips.

Kung fu will give you a good martial arts base, it is the source.

[shaolinboxer]

I would also suggest taking the karate classes. The stances are actually very similar (depeding on the style) to kung fu stances. And good sabaki (try a key word search on that one) is an extremely advanced and powerful tool.

Karate beginners are often stiff, so are kung fu beginners.

If you still just aren't interested, or the karate shcool is just plain lame (could you post the name of a local school...we love to do research!), try to make yourself a little kwoon at home and enjoy some of your own training a few times a week.

You can learn stances from a book, since they are static. Just use a mirror and check youself. Start by trying to hold each stance for 30 seconds. Add 15 second intervals until you can get up to 2-5 min.

Also, if you want to learn to kick try holding on to a chair and extending your leg as if you were kicking - hold as if you were doing a stance.

[SevenStar]

if you think that, I would venture to say you've never seen good karate, as it's not the way you described it.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[Apprentice]

it is "Lame" as you say...i took it several years ago, i felt like i learned nothing, and the more i learn about proper training, i realize how improper theres was...

We never, practiced stances(a no-no)...not for a lenght of time at all really...i didn't get a good explination on how to do the horse stance really either(as u can see)...and the movements DID seem really stiff, not fluid at all...not applicable into fighting, i beleive training MY WAY for 1 year would be MUCH MORE useful than training there for 1 year...not to mention my way is free, and how i want it...the only thing i need is a sparring partner full time, my bro is a punk...hehe

And for the guy who wanted the name, it's Presti...I'm not saying that the whole art was garbage, its just that it didn't seem like much to me at all, i would rather spend my money on something more worthwhile

"True victory is giving all of yourself without regret"-Ryu

"Your best move is the move you regret not doing"-Fei Long

"Are you prepared to fight today? Someone else is as we speak"-Apprentice

[PaleDragon]

Check this out...has stances and hand formations for strikes pics...Some of the stances ive heard called by other names but, all look good to me except for the empty stance. ...hehe should put the link huh?
http://www.dynamicfightingarts.com/shaolin.htm

[SevenStar]

"and the movements DID seem really stiff, not fluid at all...not applicable into fighting, i beleive training MY WAY for 1 year would be MUCH MORE useful than training there for 1 year..."

Training your way can be very useful if you have a foudation in something. With no foundation, you are most likely just establishing bad habits. As for the karate school, it is stiff in the beginning. That should change as you advance. Have you seen the teacher spar? does he move like that?

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[IronFist]

the link pale dragon posted...

would you guys call this a good horse stance?

http://www.dynamicfightingarts.com/wheelhand2.jpg

I realize he's doing a technique, but I don't think this is the best horse stance...

Iron

"Now why the **** would you censor "d.ork?"

Ironman PostLog: 1100 - 11/20/01

[Xebsball]

http://www.dynamicfightingarts.com/eagle_claw.jpg

I dont mean to offend but this claw is not very precise. The fingers should be thigter (spell?)together and the thumb should not be outside like that.

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When you are surrounded by kids, enlighten them with Bruce Lee quotes.
They will love you and honor you for that.

[Xebsball]

This is better, in fact way better:
http://www.worldeagleclaw.com/MaSikDeuSau01.jpg

http://www.worldeagleclaw.com/YingJowThroat.jpg

This images are from the school where Wong Ying teaches, hope he dont mind me posting it.
http://www.worldeagleclaw.com

----------------------------
When you are surrounded by kids, enlighten them with Bruce Lee quotes.
They will love you and honor you for that.

[PaleDragon]

i agree the horse stance he is doing there would get a quick "knee over toes!" from my sifu...but i have seen many pics of (especially taiji guys) people doing horses like that(maybe its a different stance) if what you posted is a tiger claw its nothing like what I learn...and the pic you posted looked more like an eagle claw or perhaps an leopards paw from what i learn. i hope i didnt completely misguide him tho. hehe

[PaleDragon]

to go back to that website but from context of what you posted i can tell that was supposed to be an eagle's claw...haha it looks so much like a tiger's claw that's what i assumed it was...yeah i've only seen an eagle claw done two ways and thats not one of them. Thanks for posting him a better reference.

[SevenStar]

Apprentice, check this out

http://www.cyberkwoon.com/html/article.php?sid=139

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair