Puny, Ugly, Weak Europeans Compared to Dignified, Tall, Strong Native Warriors

[MarathonTmatt]

The pictures speak for themselves. Many Native American men upon contact with Europeans were well over 6 feet tall. Regions such as Montreal, Delaware, Virginia, New England, even Missouri. I myself am 6'3", although I wish I was taller, like 6'7", the height of a basketball player. It is said that some of the first settlers to Long Island, New York, the 6'7" Native men made an English farmer, surname Smith, pick up an Ox as a test: if Smith could walk around his property carrying the Ox without dropping it, which he did, then Smith was "okay" by them. This incident was like an "ice-breaker" between early colonial and Native relationships in that area (Long Island.)

Native people were : farmers, fishers, villagers, and conducted commerce by trade, etc. They weren't so much "nomads" as history books claim, as much as having Summer homes (settlements) and winter homes. They were opportunistic about their real estate, although they did not attach any monetary value to anything; to the ancestors, all of creation was sacred and had it's value/ place. There was a great Algonquian Alliance throughout much of the whole country; in many parts of what is today the United States and Canada. They did not live in "savage" times. For instance, the Powhatan Confederacy of Virginia were Algonquian people, the Lenne-Lenape of Delaware/ New Jersey area, again Algonquian, Shawnee of Missouri-- Algonquian, Ojibway of Manitoba-- Alqonquian, the people of Long Island, New England states and Quebec, and maritime Canada-- all for the most part Algonquian people. For instance, meeting sites at Turner's Falls in Massachusetts in pre colonial times hosted people as far away as the Ohio River Valley. All inter-related and good relations. Much like the homigeny of the Han Chinese people for instance. Everywhere in North America, the mound-building and pyramid-building culture existed, power places of great spirit.

Whenever I see drawings depicting early encounters of Native people with white European colonizers, the contrast between the two different groups of people is striking. Native people are always depicted more in shape, towering over the Europeans. Take this picture for example. I think this is from the Montreal area. Look how dignified the Native group is, compared to the European group- some of the faces on the Europeans look horrified or worried-- they know that compared to their new Native American neighbors, they are incompetent, lawless and weak:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qByUyKvWL5c/VLbi9i35T5I/AAAAAAAAQmQ/3bGd2iSrs8Q/s1600/Conference_Between_the_French_and_Indian_Leaders_A round_a_Ceremonial_Fire_by_Vernier.jpg

The picture below depicts a Native Warrior from the Powhatan Confederacy, supposedly next to the infamous John Smith. The Native man towers in height and strength over the treacherous John Smith:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Smith_Pamunkey.jpg

And what about the Jamestown massacre? The colonists probably stole the Native's food supplies, and more than likely desecrated some of their sacred places along the way (it is known for sure this is what happened with early Pilgrim/ Native conflict in New England.)

Germ warfare. In some cases 80-90% of the Native population declined as well as entire villages (east coast). There is scant evidence that the "black plague" in Europe was intentional. If powers-that-be formulated the Black Death before they even went to the "New World", it is possible that they knew what they were doing, ie, unleashing intentional germ warfare.

Also, Native people never sold any land for a few beads and some Wampum (purple shell-- purple, the holy color of chiefs and kings). They saw this as an exchange of friendship, only to quickly learn that the colonists were back-stabbers. Shiny tin cans and buckets would have been considered an interesting substitute in place of sacred objects such as quartz stones, because they reflected light in certain ways that was conducive with the ancestral spiritual beliefs of Native people. Early treaties that were signed were not viewed as treaties. Native people did not realize what it meant (at first.. and there were many firsts in many different areas!) to the European governments--- how could they! Later, treaties were signed at gun point, if at all.

And lastly, the oral tradition is a valuable format for transmitting information from one generation to the next. In fact, in North America, Native people have a reputation for being "great orators." Native flood and earthquake legends which the geologic record of our modern times has now confirmed, retain the memory of these past events which occurred as far back as 5,000-6,000 years ago! For instance, the same earthquakes and floods that broke Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket from mainland Massachusetts, and shaped out Long Island of New York into it's modern shape, are the very same floods and earthquakes that were experienced in other regions of the Atlantic seaboard; such as the island of Crete (North Africa, Mediterranian), the catastrophes that annihilated the Minoan culture on the island of Crete, and the list goes on, such as the Azores islands, etc. The modern volcanic activity on the island of Iceland, as well as some of the Virgin Islands in the Carribean which sometimes go off today, are a remnant of the volcanic activity that rocked the Atlantic seaboard in ancient times. When I stare out onto the Great Blue Hill in the distance, from which Massachusetts gets it's name, I wonder what lay beyond that mountain other than ocean so long ago.

There will come a time when the curse that the Europeans brought upon this land will be lifted. The plague will cease to exist, but first people need to become morally straight with themselves and their neighbors. A higher code of ethics needs to be planted and left to bloom in people's minds and relationships. Focus on the creative narrative, on the life process. Good advice. Thanks, Rob, for shooting it straight.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sounds like butt hurt.

[MarathonTmatt]

Sounds like butt hurt.

It was late at night for me writing this. Helped me un-wind!

[Jimbo]

Back in 1979, on my sole trip to the east coast, our school group visited a colonial-era house in the Boston area. The house...doorways, rooms, fireplace, stairs, pots and pans, etc...were very tiny. The house felt uncomfortably cramped. We were told that the colonists back then were physically small due to their type of nutrition (or lack of it).

Many Westerners of European descent say how physically small most (for example) Japanese are, but that also had to do with the type of nutrition. If you look at ancient samurai armor, it almost looks sized for a child. But nowadays with better or different nutrition, MANY men in Japan are easily 6' or over. Both of my grandfathers were very tall for Japanese of their time; one just over 6' and the other just under that. In fact, that would have been good-sized even for a Westerner of the time. They were both born in the late 1800s, when most Japanese were very short, probably the same as most colonial Europeans.

If you've ever visited preserved homes/buildings from the pioneer days of the old west, you will see that the homes, the beds and other furniture were still small by today's standards.

Jack Dempsey was the heavyweight boxing champion at something like 185 pounds(?) and about 6' tall. Nowadays, he would be way too small and wouldn't even be a heavyweight anymore. The size of people in general, as well as life expectancies in developed countries, have increased dramatically since even 50 or 60 years ago.

[MarathonTmatt]

Jack Dempsey was the heavyweight boxing champion at something like 185 pounds(?) and about 6' tall. Nowadays, he would be way too small and wouldn't even be a heavyweight anymore. The size of people in general, as well as life expectancies in developed countries, have increased dramatically since even 50 or 60 years ago.

Hi Jimbo-
Very good points to consider (your whole post). It can be surmised then, that a lot of pre-contact Native people in N. America were living a lifestyle- fresh air, plenty of physical activity/ work to involve oneself in, and nutrition-wise, that was conducive to an ideal lifestyle, rather than a "savage state". A lot of people think that they only drank water, but that is not the case- they drank maple sap/water too, as well as teas from the roots of many plants/ herbs, and even sometimes fermented brews. Cultivated corn probably has something to do with it too (lifestyle/size/nutrition)- it is as if modern people are catching up, reaping the nutritional benefits of corn. Corn is not a wild plant and must be cultivated by humans. Academics have proclaimed that corn is indigenous to the Americas which it very well could be, but there is apparently evidence that it was used in ancient times in parts of Asia too.
Speaking of cultivated plants, other cultivated cereals such as wheat, barley and oats is a mystery as to when and who first cultivated those cereals. Those grains showed up in Mesopotamia/ Fertile Crescent around 5,000 years ago, but by who... it is as if they appeared over-night-- there is no rhyme or reason to it, this unexplained phenomenon seemingly appeared one day over-night, no further explanation ever explained. I am also suspicious of some fruits such as Grapefruit, (delicious) which seem to be a splice between something like an orange and a larger melon. Today they are mostly grown in Florida. It really makes me wonder. I remember when I was a kid, there was a poster of a person parachuting hung up on the library wall. Later as an adult, I heard the quote: "Your mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open!"

[MarathonTmatt]

**Corrections: Cereal grains such as wheat, oats and barley have been domesticated by humans for over 10,000 years. The advent of agricultural societies in the Fertile Crescent were firsts in terms of agricultural/ irrigation/ domestic animal practices, not so much the grains they harvested, apparently harvested for thousands of years prior (still interesting).

My hunch about grapefruit was correct. It turns out it is a splice between a sweet Jamaican variety of Orange and an Indonesian Pomello fruit (which are big). However, it's origins are within the last few centuries it turns out.**

[Jimbo]

Interesting info, Matt. IMO, there is a LOT about ancient (and not-so-ancient) history that people do not know, or have forgotten.

Thought this might be interesting:

https://rephaim23.wordpress.com/2015/06/01/patagonian-giants-the-ona-tribe-dr-frederick-cooks-photos-and-notes-7-foot-giants/

[bawang]

it is safe emotionally to speak romantically about native americans with admiration and respect because they are defeated peoples from a bygone era. less for black americans because they are defeated but still actively resisting. even less for asians or arabs because they have not been defeated.

[boxerbilly]

It was late at night for me writing this. Helped me un-wind!

It's cool Matt. Everyone is an emotional wreck every now and then.

Hey Im a nose bleed away from all white right ? Very few Indians would accept me.

Plus I support President Trump 100%.

Sorry about the gas deal but the world runs on petrol.

[boxerbilly]

it is safe emotionally to speak romantically about native americans with admiration and respect because they are defeated peoples from a bygone era. less for black americans because they are defeated but still actively resisting. even less for asians or arabs because they have not been defeated.

Actively resisting what Bawang ?

[boxerbilly]

The funny thing is, is those that did not vote for Trump wanted a puny, ugly, weak European decent woman to be our President ?

[boxerbilly]

Back in 1979, on my sole trip to the east coast, our school group visited a colonial-era house in the Boston area. The house...doorways, rooms, fireplace, stairs, pots and pans, etc...were very tiny. The house felt uncomfortably cramped. We were told that the colonists back then were physically small due to their type of nutrition (or lack of it).

Many Westerners of European descent say how physically small most (for example) Japanese are, but that also had to do with the type of nutrition. If you look at ancient samurai armor, it almost looks sized for a child. But nowadays with better or different nutrition, MANY men in Japan are easily 6' or over. Both of my grandfathers were very tall for Japanese of their time; one just over 6' and the other just under that. In fact, that would have been good-sized even for a Westerner of the time. They were both born in the late 1800s, when most Japanese were very short, probably the same as most colonial Europeans.

If you've ever visited preserved homes/buildings from the pioneer days of the old west, you will see that the homes, the beds and other furniture were still small by today's standards.

Jack Dempsey was the heavyweight boxing champion at something like 185 pounds(?) and about 6' tall. Nowadays, he would be way too small and wouldn't even be a heavyweight anymore. The size of people in general, as well as life expectancies in developed countries, have increased dramatically since even 50 or 60 years ago.

Yeah that amour is small. But I suspect Japan had really big tall guys ( think Sumo ) even in those days. Just as People of European decent had big, small and in between guys too. Washington was 6'3. Franklin 5'9. A bit taller than myself. The Irish have 7 foot tall warriors under some building I forget the name of. I forget the time they attribute to them walking the earth.

Every place had big and small people. Medium size predominates every where.

Also, Dempsey was part Cherokee.

[MarathonTmatt]

it is safe emotionally to speak romantically about native americans with admiration and respect because they are defeated peoples from a bygone era. less for black americans because they are defeated but still actively resisting. even less for asians or arabs because they have not been defeated.

Well, I know your writing style and know you are over generalizing. Yet there is a great gold nugget of truth in what you say (most people are too pea-brained to realize this about your posts)... the colonial powers that spread it's arms all over the globe... war is still being waged in the middle east. War torn areas have created conflict zones. can modern people and traditional people even co-exist? I see YouTube videos of European people's reactions to Muslim mosques in their countries. The Muslims will shoo away drunks, prostitutes and general rebel rousers, obnoxious people/ etc. from walking down the street past their mosque in the cities. This could be anywhere in the West. I don't blame them for that. Keep the holy place sacred. In N. America the Creek stone temples in the southeast (as an example such as in Georgia)-- the tradition was, no hunting allowed within a 2 mile radius of the stone shrines/ temples (on hilltops), and the people visiting had to take their footwear (moccasins and such) off. People living near these places today-- I would say a good chunk of people don't even know that such structures once existed right under their nose, never mind knowing anything about it and why these places were sacred, etc. So I don't blame Muslim people in cities patrolling the riff raff outside their mosques. However, how realistic is it for them to be in a modern city doing this. Ultimately probably not too realistic. "Nothing sacred anymore." At least not in the plastic/ modern matrix of things.

I wouldn't call Native people as being from a bygone era though. I won't argue about defeated. If they weren't defeated, at least in a sense, they would still be in large and in charge of the island of Manhattan, NYC for instance. Of course this is not the case. Native people and Native culture is not bygone though. Pushed to the fringes of society but not bygone... not totally. Native people and descendants of Native people are still here all over the place. I am one of those people and am proud of the ancestry on my native side.

[MarathonTmatt]

The funny thing is, is those that did not vote for Trump wanted a puny, ugly, weak European decent woman to be our President ?

lol, so true! so many things wrong with Hillary Clinton that people aren't even aware of. I think it went like this: Trump won the electoral votes. I think he was set up to win in advance, and he knew it, that is why he did not campaign as hard. During the first debate, he shook Hillary's hand with a dominant handshake and said "I want you to be happy." Meanwhile, Hillary campaigned and raked in millions and millions of dollars in campaign donations that went straight to the Clinton Foundation, much of which her and Bill will use at their own personal expense. I think she ran and "took the money and run." Of course, the public at large is not privy to this. I think the United States' government is corporatized, and has trillions in debt which is why they brought Trump in because he knows how to deal with that kind of stuff. A lot going on behind the scenes that the public doesn't know about. The time has come for the US government to get strong on it's deals, trades, policies, etc., or else there will be a collapse/ breakdown of society-- so the person that will do those things without batting an eye-lash is now in the White House. I have my criticisms, but all in all, understanding it from my pov, I think a lot of people who are freaking out just don't understand the first thing.

[boxerbilly]

lol, so true! so many things wrong with Hillary Clinton that people aren't even aware of. I think it went like this: Trump won the electoral votes. I think he was set up to win in advance, and he knew it, that is why he did not campaign as hard. During the first debate, he shook Hillary's hand with a dominant handshake and said "I want you to be happy." Meanwhile, Hillary campaigned and raked in millions and millions of dollars in campaign donations that went straight to the Clinton Foundation, much of which her and Bill will use at their own personal expense. I think she ran and "took the money and run." Of course, the public at large is not privy to this. I think the United States' government is corporatized, and has trillions in debt which is why they brought Trump in because he knows how to deal with that kind of stuff. A lot going on behind the scenes that the public doesn't know about. The time has come for the US government to get strong on it's deals, trades, policies, etc., or else there will be a collapse/ breakdown of society-- so the person that will do those things without batting an eye-lash is now in the White House. I have my criticisms, but all in all, understanding it from my pov, I think a lot of people who are freaking out just don't understand the first thing.

Yes. Washington DC is in fact Incorporated. Since 1802. That is the location of our Federal Government. Our nations Capitol. Never a hidden fact. No great conspiracy.

[boxerbilly]

The Conspiracy may be why have students not been taught this as I was ?

Here-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_Organic_Act_of_1801

On May 3, 1802, the City of Washington was granted a municipal government consisting of a mayor appointed by the President of the United States. The portion of the District of Columbia ceded by Virginia was returned to that state in 1846-47.[3] The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871 replaced the municipal governments of the City of Washington, Georgetown, and Washington County with a single, unified government for the whole District.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington,_D.C.

[MarathonTmatt]

The Conspiracy may be why have students not been taught this as I was ?

True, billy. All good points. I wasn't trying to sound too conspiratorial I love our freedoms and constitutional rights. I would gander different ideological factions within the government, education system, media, etc. When I went through K-12, (I graduated high school in 2002), the textbooks we used were old, like 1973-1979 old. I remember learning about ancient Egypt for weeks on end in the 6th grade. I realize that in the following years since I went through grade-school, the textbooks changed, the kids got new textbooks. The content of the textbooks also changed as well as the learning curriculum.

[boxerbilly]

And yes. The white people took more and more as they grew in population.

This history of ours is no different than say the history of other Nation of different ethnicities. Aside from Native Americas are here. I don't know very much about other nations wonderful actions to those not like themselves. I do know some. One or 2 periods very well of a specific area.

Fact is. Almost any nation of size can, could and has been deemed Imperialistic. Everyone ! In fact for some reason it seems to escape those focused on my predominated racial make up that other nations are also doing this as I type. We are not alone just the current poster boy.

[boxerbilly]

a policy of extending a country's power and influence through DIPLOMACY or military force.

[MarathonTmatt]

And yes. The white people took more and more as they grew in population.

This history of ours is no different than say the history of other Nation of different ethnicities. Aside from Native Americas are here. I don't know very much about other nations wonderful actions to those not like themselves. I do know some. One or 2 periods very well of a specific area.

Fact is. Almost any nation of size can, could and has been deemed Imperialistic. Everyone ! In fact for some reason it seems to escape those focused on my predominated racial make up that other nations are also doing this as I type. We are not alone just the current poster boy.

the story of the human race.

[bawang]

And yes. The white people took more and more as they grew in population.

This history of ours is no different than say the history of other Nation of different ethnicities. Aside from Native Americas are here. I don't know very much about other nations wonderful actions to those not like themselves. I do know some. One or 2 periods very well of a specific area.

Fact is. Almost any nation of size can, could and has been deemed Imperialistic. Everyone ! In fact for some reason it seems to escape those focused on my predominated racial make up that other nations are also doing this as I type. We are not alone just the current poster boy.

ming dynasty china was technologically equal to Europeans and explored African coast but did not engage in imperialist policies.

to conquer other people simply for the sake of it, is a bestial and demonic idea. this had never before occurred in human history.

to exterminate a people and repopulate their territories with your own, comes from hearts of demons. this had never before occurred in human history.


Actively resisting what Bawang ?

total cultural, economic, genetic oblivion.

[bawang]

the story of the human race.

if you gaze straight into the pages of European history you would see many exceptions. people do almost universally acknowledge the exceptional positive sides, but not the dark sides.

evolution and natural selection is not linear. likewise, progression in history is not linear.



if anyone truly believes current powers are just like previous, that empires are natural, then understand also that by this logic IT IS MERELY YOUR TURN and the ancient peoples of the old world count in eons, and no deeds are left forgotten or repaid.

to accept your past and current place in empire is to also accept your FUTURE in it and the future of your offspring and legacy. at best, the boers in the shantytowns of south africa. at worst, the skeletons in the desert of the tarim basin.

[MarathonTmatt]

if you gaze straight into the pages of European history you would see many exceptions. people do almost universally acknowledge the exceptional positive sides, but not the dark sides.

evolution and natural selection is not linear. likewise, progression in history is not linear.



if anyone truly believes current powers are just like previous, that empires are natural, then understand also that by this logic IT IS MERELY YOUR TURN and the ancient peoples of the old world count in eons, and no deeds are left forgotten or repaid.

to accept your past and current place in empire is to also accept your FUTURE in it and the future of your offspring and legacy. at best, the boers in the shantytowns of south africa. at worst, the skeletons in the desert of the tarim basin.

Maybe I should not be so compliant with my attitude than. You are absolutely 100% correct-- Empire is not a natural thing at all- they are imposed. Usually very violently. Certainly against the will of others. I have always considered myself less of an "industrialist" and more of an "indigenous."

Whenever someone brings up politics, my reaction these days is to just be compliant and not make a big fuss. After all in the grand scheme, if I pull myself into that world, into that arena, than what am I anyway? I am no-one, nada, just a mere pauper or peasant lifting stones around in the woods, taking stones from an old abandoned quarry site and hauling them up-hill to a ledge to build monuments/ structures in the same way some of my ancestors did. That giant standing stone I erected might as well be a giant middle finger. One thing that I will not ever lose is my strength, my dignity and my morality, my compassion for life. I will always keep my Spirit strong.

Nobody here is setting government policy. I am concerned that Trump will weaken environmental policy. He already has. I am concerned that they will bomb the sh1t out of the Middle East. Somewhere down the line probably more conflict on western grounds will break out. I love the land I live on. When it comes to politics and policies set forth by the government, I tend to not get all political. It is way over my head. War machines, 99 red balloons, all that.

[Jimbo]

I never argue about politics. There is not point to it. I've heard of families broken up because one side is Democrat and the other is Republican. Which is really stupid. As much as the two parties pretend to be different, they are two fingers attached to the same hand. All we see are the tips of the fingers above the tabletop. If I get caught up in the bickering, then I will be trapped in the illusion and the 'mob' mentality.

As for Trump or Hillary, I've stated before that I don't like either one of them. Now that Trump is president, I hope his run will be better than expected. I really do. Not because I like him, but because if it doesn't go well, this country will be F'd up badly. It's in our best interest to hope it goes well. But I'm under no illusion that he's a savior from the status quo of Washington, DC. Trump's hands aren't clean, either, and in spite of his age and wealth, his ego is that of an 11 year old. In fact, I've known 11 year-olds who display more emotional maturity and are more 'together' than Trump. If some little girl in Kansas wrote Trump a letter saying he sucks, you can be certain Trump would be tweeting about it ASAP, attacking the girl, her parents, calling it a conspiracy against him, and would probably demand their incarceration. Anyway, any changes Trump will effect in DC is, ultimately, what he is ALLOWED to effect. "Beyond a mountain is a higher mountain".

And don't get me started on Hillary.

Sorry for the rant and for going OT. That's all I will say on politics. :)

[MarathonTmatt]

I never argue about politics. There is not point to it. I've heard of families broken up because one side is Democrat and the other is Republican. Which is really stupid. As much as the two parties pretend to be different, they are two fingers attached to the same hand. All we see are the tips of the fingers above the tabletop. If I get caught up in the bickering, then I will be trapped in the illusion and the 'mob' mentality.

As for Trump or Hillary, I've stated before that I don't like either one of them. Now that Trump is president, I hope his run will be better than expected. I really do. Not because I like him, but because if it doesn't go well, this country will be F'd up badly. It's in our best interest to hope it goes well. But I'm under no illusion that he's a savior from the status quo of Washington, DC. Trump's hands aren't clean, either, and in spite of his age and wealth, his ego is that of an 11 year old. In fact, I've known 11 year-olds who display more emotional maturity and are more 'together' than Trump. If some little girl in Kansas wrote Trump a letter saying he sucks, you can be certain Trump would be tweeting about it ASAP, attacking the girl, her parents, calling it a conspiracy against him, and would probably demand their incarceration. Anyway, any changes Trump will effect in DC is, ultimately, what he is ALLOWED to effect. "Beyond a mountain is a higher mountain".

And don't get me started on Hillary.

Sorry for the rant and for going OT. That's all I will say on politics. :)

Everything about this thread is OT Jimbo, from early histories of Long Island to the origins of grapefruits, to giants, the incorporation of Washington DC and Donald Trump.

Very well said post. I feel the same way you do as far as politics goes!

[boxerbilly]

ming dynasty china was technologically equal to Europeans and explored African coast but did not engage in imperialist policies.

to conquer other people simply for the sake of it, is a bestial and demonic idea. this had never before occurred in human history.

to exterminate a people and repopulate their territories with your own, comes from hearts of demons. this had never before occurred in human history.



total cultural, economic, genetic oblivion.

No wonder you got kicked out. You were bringing down the statistical average for intelligence . Im sure not all but many many Asians are extremely intelligent. Generally they are statistical leaders of that pack.

You simply are not one of them.

[boxerbilly]

Anyway Bawang. Ive always loved your tenacity. Sometimes you are one funny ****ing dude. I have a tip to share with you. Most white people do not hate Asians anymore. None of you ever looked the same to me. Neither do black folks either but hat may just be me. Lets not forget we were once sort of friends. What happened after had zero do with any of us.

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675037798_General-Pick_first-stilwell-road-convoy_accepting-a-banner_entering-a-city

I am white. I am proud to be white. I have no issue with anyone being proud who they are or what their heritage is. We are all proud. Talk of exterminating white folks with me is not appreciated. And I can be real mean towards others races as well which make me feel not so great when I admire another person or their race. China makes the cut ! So does Japan. Loads more for one reason or another. But I am also American. And very proud of our past too. So, for me. My country is more important than another's. Violently so if need be. But all our countries have periods of horrible acts of violence and genocide. Some even their own people but from a different region or religion. If you grew you invaded and took land and resources from the people of that land. Killed loads of the men and banged the women and essentially or did so, breed out ( not really possible) the other.

Now you are in the USA. Coming from where you did I have no doubts you followed legal method of entry. And aside from having very opinionated and still youthful views of heritage and possibly still clinging to nationality. Hey , if you want to live here and be American. Be that ! Our flag is called Old Glory. That will be your flag to if you are American. I hope you will be one day if you are not yet. That is your choice and there may come a time you have to decide.

Until then. Smile and go talk to so white dudes and makes some friends. Talk to the ladies if you don't have one yet. If you do. I suggest avoiding that beyond platonic ideals. I messed that up and I wish I had not. Your choice !

Enjoy !

[MarathonTmatt]

We are all proud. Talk of exterminating white folks with me is not appreciated. And I can be real mean towards others races as well which make me feel not so great when I admire another person or their race. China makes the cut ! So does Japan. Loads more for one reason or another. But I am also American. And very proud of our past too. So, for me. My country is more important than another's. Violently so if need be. But all our countries have periods of horrible acts of violence and genocide. Some even their own people but from a different region or religion.

Thank you for saying this billy. We are Americans. A lot of us are mixed and inter-related, sometimes even in un-expected ways. As for who threw the first stone in the Middle East. Some people say it is as far back as the Crusades 1,000 years ago. I would actually go back thousands of years further. For instance dynastic times in Egypt had conflicts in that general region over 2,500 years ago and what-not (the Hyksos.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos

As for modern times I would actually point my finger more at Israel than at the United States. The land that they have taken from the Palestinians is the dictionary definition of genocide. They only have a sliver of their land left compared to in 1948. I am certainly not anti-semetic in saying this either. Just looking at the facts. I have Jewish friends throughout my whole life and get along with Jewish people wonderfully. The problem is, there is something wrong with some of our world leaders. At home and abroad. This has happened throughout history with all people.

With that said, I view the three people of the book this way: they are more political ideologies more than anything. Not always the case but there is enough of a problem within all those religions (the same thing could be said of certain sects of Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.) Anyway there is V 1.0, V 2.0, and V 3.0. I would rather die a warrior fighting for my freedoms and way of life than accepting, or living under, the Shariah Law. In the United States at least, we are free to exercise certain freedoms and liberties, such as gun ownership (gun ownership in rural areas should not be equated with urban gun violence). I think there are positive and spiritual aspects of Judaism. There are positive and spiritual aspects of Christianity. There are positive and spiritual aspects of Islam. There is beauty in all three. I could go to Morocco and have a great experience, go to Israel and have a great experience, heck, even visit the Vatican and have a great experience (well, maybe). But there are also factions of poisonous ideologies in all three. I enjoy reading about stories of Jesus of Nazareth as well as stories from the Old Testament such as Ezekial. I also like learning about Isis and Horus from the Egyptian mythos. Thor and Odin of the Scandinavian mythology. Lou of the Strong Right Hand from the ancient British Isles. Glooscape of the Algonquian world view.

In ending, I would say imposing one's culture or way of life over another's is wrong. While the idea of America being the land of the free and home of the brave is alluring, a lot of Americans are not aware of their place in the world in a perplexing manner. Ancient cultural stone ruins that are national treasures on the island of Hawaii, their counterparts are destroyed and developed over in the continental United States. There is a lot of grid-lock in the cities, the concrete jungle. How many millions on Long Island know the ancient histories of the very place they live (or anyplace for that matter, including rural areas.) We should not accept tyranny in any form, we should not impose our will on others in any form. Regular people are all okay. Many world leaders need to grow up. There is where you will find your demonic element. Lots of people drinking Kool-Aid too. What is animating a lifeless object and making it burn elements/ resources, to the detriment of the environment (the natural world, the organic life of the earth) called, if not black magic. I just described the use of automobiles and modern machinery. In the US, the republicans blocked the Supreme Court nominee of the Democrat's for a whole year. Now, to get the Republicans back, the Democrats are holding things up for Trump's cabinet. These are all people who want to be "winners." I think winning and losing are religious ideological beliefs that somebody imposed into people's minds. If I lived another day, drank water and ate food, was in good health, did I win or lose anything? No, I simply lived in the moment. Anyway, this is all one epic rant. I probably ****ed a few people off somewhere. Oh well. Grow up. Do not be a tyrant. Do not impose your will upon others.

[Jimbo]

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1871411-ancient-race-of-white-giants-described-in-native-legends-from-many-tribes/

[bawang]

Anyway Bawang. Ive always loved your tenacity. Sometimes you are one funny ****ing dude. I have a tip to share with you. Most white people do not hate Asians anymore. None of you ever looked the same to me. Neither do black folks either but hat may just be me. Lets not forget we were once sort of friends. What happened after had zero do with any of us.

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675037798_General-Pick_first-stilwell-road-convoy_accepting-a-banner_entering-a-city

I am white. I am proud to be white. I have no issue with anyone being proud who they are or what their heritage is. We are all proud. Talk of exterminating white folks with me is not appreciated. And I can be real mean towards others races as well which make me feel not so great when I admire another person or their race. China makes the cut ! So does Japan. Loads more for one reason or another. But I am also American. And very proud of our past too. So, for me. My country is more important than another's. Violently so if need be. But all our countries have periods of horrible acts of violence and genocide. Some even their own people but from a different region or religion. If you grew you invaded and took land and resources from the people of that land. Killed loads of the men and banged the women and essentially or did so, breed out ( not really possible) the other.

Now you are in the USA. Coming from where you did I have no doubts you followed legal method of entry. And aside from having very opinionated and still youthful views of heritage and possibly still clinging to nationality. Hey , if you want to live here and be American. Be that ! Our flag is called Old Glory. That will be your flag to if you are American. I hope you will be one day if you are not yet. That is your choice and there may come a time you have to decide.

Until then. Smile and go talk to so white dudes and makes some friends. Talk to the ladies if you don't have one yet. If you do. I suggest avoiding that beyond platonic ideals. I messed that up and I wish I had not. Your choice !

Enjoy !

I stopped being friendly after u said u don't train any actual kung fu and was looking for free online coaching.

I love white people, I have a white friend, I even let him use my toilet. you are not a normal white person. anybody that doesn't train kung fu on a kung fu forum obviously has some serious mental issues and often RACIST issues and I knew right away just mentioning race would get you into a frenzy. when u got mad way back all I did was type white people and just seeing the word white set u off.

and whats all this paranoia about extermination, nobody said anything about that, something devilish is in ur mind.

[boxerbilly]

Glad to see you are back in participation mode.

You are in fact correct. You never wrote that. I flipped the words. MY mistake.

I am glad you have one white friend and love white people now.

I see your point about a non kung fu guy here. If you mean the time I took you up on your push up program. Yes, thank you. But let us assume then I have very serious mental issues as you suggest and this is what you have known and or believed all along. And you response and action to it was again ? LMFAO. Buddy you are seriously American material. I love it ! OMG he is great ! LMFAO. Keep that can of Lysol right next to the toilet for after his white friend uses the toilet. LMFAO. Bawang, you are the best dude !

Im not paranoid actually. That does seem to be a problem in the media lately .

Anyway, I don't care bash white dudes all you like. Im married to a Mexican because I don't get along with white chicks at all . Again, I direct you to the media. OMG did you see those bimbos marching. OMG. RUN dudes. Not that I don't agree with their beliefs but man those chicks are out crazy. I want no part of them.
Why do you think Trump marries from other countries. My father married an Okinawan. There is something wrong with our American women.

Anyway, if you want to believe I am a racist nothing I can do can change that. But please don't judge all white people you now love as racist based on your beliefs of me.

Thanks Bawang.

Enjoy.

edit. Most of the women I have been lucky enough to share time with were of other ethnicities than my own to be clear. But they were all Americans not that that is important ladies. Just saying.

And there are also 5 sub forums that are not specific kung fu forums. Again, just saying.

Its cool if you don't like me. Just say so. I don't care. Heck I told at least one other person on this forum that is my feelings about them. I did not beat around the bush. I also upheld my agreement with him.

[boxerbilly]

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1871411-ancient-race-of-white-giants-described-in-native-legends-from-many-tribes/

News to me. Thanks Jimbo. We don't need any giants walking around. Basketball players are scary enough.

[bawang]

Anyway, I don't care bash white dudes all you like. Im married to a Mexican because I don't get along with white chicks at all .

LOL
sdfsdfsd

[MarathonTmatt]

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1871411-ancient-race-of-white-giants-described-in-native-legends-from-many-tribes/

Nice article Jimbo. There is a lot that people don't know yet and that is true all over the world. Take for instance how long it has been said that the America's have been inhabited. Most people think that it has only been since 12,000 years ago. That isn't even true. In Pennsylvania state (USA), there is a site called the MeadowCroft Rockshelter Site. There is evidence of human habitation/ occupancy at that site going back 15,000-16,000 years ago. So obviously there were people living there and in other places thousands of years before they could have crossed over the glacial ice sheets 12,000 years ago. Based on that and other evidence I would say that the America's have been inhabited for at least 30,000-50,000 years, and maybe even longer than that. Since "time immemorial." It is a sad thing to see that people's perception of history could be so elementary and backwards. This is also true for people's perceptions of human origins/evolution, and therefore the perception of themselves (unfortunately at a low level- but what can ya do).

As far as giants goes. That is an interesting article. I would recommend the book "Red Earth, White Lies" by Vine Deloria Jr. He gets a lot into the mega-flora and especially of interest, the mega-fauna of the ancient past. For instance, giant beavers of North America. Some of which lived up until surprisingly recent times (last 1,000 years or so.) Also, some of what we consider to be "dinosaurs" could just be mega-fauna. Giant turtles, birds, reptiles, etc. Actually, even into colonial times in the west, there are accounts and incidents of giant snakes that tribes on the plains could not penetrate it's scales with an arrow. The same arrow points that could kill a huge bison/buffalo in one swift blow couldn't even puncture the scales of these snakes/reptiles with multiple blows. Actually, here is a lecture by Vine Deloria Jr., "The World We Used To Live In" (titled after another of his books.) - https://youtu.be/QOL0Gm22Jy0 - what he refers to as "plestocene- like animals." He starts talking about it around 22 mins. in. I have seen things with my own eyes- like the features of crocodiles carved out of boulders, but in the backwoods of Massachusetts. According to academia such animals haven't existed in that region for at least hundreds of thousands of years. Unless we are talking about an reptile that was kept like a pet by somebody thousands of years ago that was acquired through a trade network, that wouldn't surprise me either.

As far as human giants. Us modern people don't get to judge so critically, or poo-poo such things so easily imo. Differences of the oxygen levels and air molecules in the atmosphere in ancient times was different, more primordial. This explains the mega-flora and mega-fauna, and it may even explain that some of our ancestors were giants. I see these giants, if it is true, as our ancestors. Perhaps we were cut down to size like everything else was. Fern plants used to grow 30 ft. high, now they grow up to my knees! Maybe even up to the earliest of colonial times, this gene wasn't too uncommon to see a 6'7" Native warrior or even a 7'0" ancestor. This gene still obviously exists, but is probably a recessive gene, much more rare these days, such as someone the size of Shaquille O'Neil, today one in a million. These days, 6'5" is really tall, even I am taller than most at 6'3".

I suppose I have something else to add. There is a strong tradition of Little People too. Again, all over the world, remains have been found in Indonesia. In the New England area, these people were referred to as Makiawisug in Algonquian dialect. here is an article about them- http://www.native-languages.org/makiawisug.htm . Their leader at one time was a benevolent spirit, Granny Squannit- http://www.native-languages.org/squannit.htm I will let you in on a very big truth. It is true that they once existed, I have physical proof of it. And, I suspect that they still do exist but do not make themselves known so easily. I have a stone club of one of the Little People. It is the same stone club a human our size would have had, which I have seen examples of, except this stone club was smaller, fit for the size of a GI Joe doll or some such. I really do believe it is a relic of the Little People. It was an interesting-looking stone I picked up on the side of a trail. Of course, if you ever come across something like that, make sure you always offer something up in exchange! (a copper penny, tobacco, sage, a nail, whatever along those lines you have on hand.) That is all I will say about the Little People, I have probably said too much already.

[MarathonTmatt]

Since the cat is out of the bag about the Little People, and staying in the theme of the last post, here is a traditional Mohegan tale concerning Great Granny Squannit. Just click on the link below. Also note the theme/ portrayal of the traditions of rocks/stone/quartz, even underground beehive chambers, associated with the Little People, which is brought up through the telling of this oral tradition (written down for preservation purposes):

http://mohegan.nsn.us/heritage/our-stories/makiawisug

[MarathonTmatt]

I realize I left out some thoughts on gigantism when I was tackling that issue a couple posts up.

The moon has an influence on the tides and water in general, even women's moon cycles, so as you can see, the moon has an influence on all life on Earth. Even baby turtles that hatch from their shells walk towards the biggest source of light in the night-time- the moon. That is why artificial street/building lights are so threatening to some wildlife. But anyway. There are other heavenly bodies that influence life on the planet. Obviously the sun, the source of all life on Earth. But even to the naked eye, some of the other planets can be seen in the night sky, such as Venus (the light, or "son" of the morning star, in other words, Lucifer, later turned into the Christian boogey-man by the zealot church fathers) and Jupiter. Here is a wiki article on Jupiter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter The mythology of Jupiter and the fact that it was the god of the Romans is interesting. I have even heard that the tradition of earrings/ wedding rings/ etc. has something to do with the rings of Jupiter (or Saturn?) if one digs deep enough into the matter (that you are listening to your god, to get married before your god, etc). Anyway in the northern hemisphere I have been noticing Jupiter in the night sky for a while now. In fact, once the sun goes down it is the brightest object in the night sky other than the moon, quite visible, especially in the foothills.

So as we can see, heavenly bodies (other planets, stars) influence all life on Earth. It could be that in a different by-gone age, what the Hindu traditions may refer to as a previous "Yuga" cycle for instance (although other cultures tracked time just as expertly, such as the Mayan calendars and their roughly 24,000 year cycles) , the influences of the solar system had a different effect on the bearing of the Earth as they do now in our times.

[MarathonTmatt]

The presence of Little People in North America is spread through all the country (at least many parts.) Here is a lecture by historian/ journalist Mary Joyce about the Little People in the Appalachian territory of the Carolina's. She has interviewed local "old timers" who had seen first-hand the tunnels and structures made by the Little People, some of which is now destroyed. The video is from YouTube, the link is here:

https://youtu.be/ojUrLjYZZAU

PS- It is the bad medicine of the white man, or the modern society at large, which has driven the Little People into such hiding, further obscuring their presence. I reckon 99.9% of people will never see evidence that they even exist (or be privy to their existence).