Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu [Archive]

wiz cool c

04-30-2017, 06:51 PM

Heres some background to the Taiji guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EprNKGHPrxA&t=0s

The MMA guy has now issued an open challenge to any Taiji people. If you have Weibo, its quite entertaining to follow. Some Wudang "abbot" has accepted, as well as a Taiji guy called Wang Zhan Hai.

There is a whole lot of fantasy going on in the Chinese martial art world. first off any kung fu guy willing to fight a match[not friendly training] against a young MMA competitor should obviously be a young competitor himself. for example a Sanda fighter. That and in this day and age still to be completely unaware of a ground game it's unbelievable. If you still have no clue that these guys train hard and are very skilled fighters, specially in a competitive environment, than that right there proves your "cluelessness".

This cluelessness goes above and beyond simple fighting in the Chinese arts. there are still people out there that believe you have to be of Asian decent to be a kung fu teacher/expert..... kung fu has been around what since the 70s in the states. it is ten times easier to find a good kung fu instructor in new York city than it is in most Chinese big cities. then there are those that think only Asians know the true secrets. I bet this tai chi guy thought he knew a bunch of secrets and played master on his students demoing little simple applications, like they are the end all be all of fighting. in my experience many of the Chinese teacher's have strong foundations and basics are very good, also are good at applying power, but usually lack real life fighting experience. where the western kung fu instructors grow up in a more hostile environment and have more fighting knowledge and experience.

One more point on this cluelessness in fighting and reality topic. I believe this stems back to Chinese politics and social order. the communist government personally keeps people stupid. for example blocking social media, regulating tv programs and religion, strictly controlling what students learn in school. You can see this tai chi MASTER,is still pre ufc 1993 state of mind. the MMA guys on the other hand have outside influence, and are free thinkers because they train in a system that learned form systems with roots outside of china.

LFJ

04-30-2017, 11:12 PM

this is a shock because the two guys are big names in china. the sky might fall down on the traditional Chinese gongfu industry.

Really? Being a "big name" doesn't mean that guy's Tai Chi style was legit or representative of TCMA.

I just read that Chen Village accepted the challenge, saying it only means something if the opponent is someone recommended by everyone.
So, hopefully they give him someone good and we see something more interesting.

the guy is the fonder of Chinese mma. he brought mma to china in 2001. he is the shi deyang of mma. getting ko by him is a great honor.

Hmm... I haven't been able to find much about him on the Chinese internet.

The only other video of him on Youtube is him shamelessly beating up some weak guy in his gym who's obviously no match for him.

Kicks him in the face after he's already down on his hands and knees... :rolleyes:
But how many punches did that take and the guy didn't even hit the floor...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXyTDCvVOQU

Just seems like a loudmouth pr!ck trying to make some money/fame challenging what he perceives to be the weakest styles (Tai Chi).
But now he's got more real martial artists stepping up, and he's getting scared. What if he loses??

The only video of him actually facing a real opponent is from back in '03 against a Jiu-Jitsu guy, and he spends most of the match stuck under side mount, then gets caught in an arm bar and loses.

http://www.tudou.com/listplay/p58S0hlynRc/1RCClAvwjac.html

wiz cool c

05-01-2017, 01:30 AM

[QUOTE=LFJ;1302640] I just read that Chen Village accepted the challenge, saying it only means something if the opponent is someone recommended by everyone.
So, hopefully they give him someone good and we see something more interesting.[QUOTE]

that would be more reasonable, since they are used to resistance. they do a rugged type of push hands similar to sumo or Greco roman wrestling, heard they also practice sand as part of their training.

diego

05-01-2017, 04:24 AM

GeneChing

05-01-2017, 07:40 AM

I posted this earlier on the Tai Chi winner in MMA (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?38354-Tai-Chi-winner-in-MMA&p=1302597#post1302597). I thought about merging this but then decided that this discussion is lively enough here.

Jimbo

05-01-2017, 08:06 AM

There is a whole lot of fantasy going on in the Chinese martial art world. first off any kung fu guy willing to fight a match[not friendly training] against a young MMA competitor should obviously be a young competitor himself. for example a Sanda fighter. That and in this day and age still to be completely unaware of a ground game it's unbelievable. If you still have no clue that these guys train hard and are very skilled fighters, specially in a competitive environment, than that right there proves your "cluelessness".

This cluelessness goes above and beyond simple fighting in the Chinese arts. there are still people out there that believe you have to be of Asian decent to be a kung fu teacher/expert..... kung fu has been around what since the 70s in the states. it is ten times easier to find a good kung fu instructor in new York city than it is in most Chinese big cities. then there are those that think only Asians know the true secrets. I bet this tai chi guy thought he knew a bunch of secrets and played master on his students demoing little simple applications, like they are the end all be all of fighting. in my experience many of the Chinese teacher's have strong foundations and basics are very good, also are good at applying power, but usually lack real life fighting experience. where the western kung fu instructors grow up in a more hostile environment and have more fighting knowledge and experience.

One more point on this cluelessness in fighting and reality topic. I believe this stems back to Chinese politics and social order. the communist government personally keeps people stupid. for example blocking social media, regulating tv programs and religion, strictly controlling what students learn in school. You can see this tai chi MASTER,is still pre ufc 1993 state of mind. the MMA guys on the other hand have outside influence, and are free thinkers because they train in a system that learned form systems with roots outside of china.

I've long felt that having a solid background in non-CMA prior to taking up kung fu is a big advantage. The vast majority of kung fu people I've personally known who really excelled at actually fighting with kung fu against all types of opponents already had extensive experience in other arts/methods: judo, various styles of karate; boxing, kickboxing/MT, etc. There was already an extensive foundation of sparring or fighting in place.

The article in the link below is long, but I thought it might be relevant to this thread. I WILL point out that, although some things are very true and/or quite plausible, a lot of it is presumptuous nonsense. In fact, I have never read an article with such a bizarre combination of truths, half-truths and utter BS.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Chinese-martial-arts-not-used-in-MMA

First off, I'll mention some of what the article says that I know are BS:

1. Mas Oyama beat every karate master in Japan. FALSE. His own top student, John Bluming, even stated that Mas Oyama himself probably never had a fight in his life. And as for his fighting bulls, I'd have liked to have seen him fight a real fighting bull, like the Matadors face. Of course, he would have been gored to death in seconds.

2. Of all the CMA, only Wing Chun was effective against other styles. Total bull****. The author is obviously a Bruce Lee/Ip Man worshipper. He either ignores or is unaware of the fact that CLF has stepped up and been proven effective in various formats, including against Muay Thai. Maybe not in MMA yet, but CLF fighters have put themselves out there for decades. But obviously, those who did trained to fight competitively with it.

Related to No. 2: Wing Chun can be used to easily beat up karate or TKD guys. Depends on the individuals. I've seen many examples to the contrary.

3. Chinese parents are proud and happy for their kids to learn traditional kung fu (Wing Chun, etc.) but equate fighting sports like MMA with gangsterism. When I lived in Taiwan, many kids' parents equated traditional kung fu with gangsterism, and preferred them to study Taekwondo, kendo, etc., considering the latter to be cleaner, more professional, and more wholesome.

4. "We need yellow pride, holmes". Where does this guy come off saying 'we'? The author's name is Kenneth Ketchum, and from the photo he's a black guy. It's not his or anyone else's place to tell members of another racial group how they feel (or should act or feel). Plus, he continually says "Asians" when he's referring specifically to Chinese.

5. All Chinese, all Koreans, and all Japanese are the same as each other within their own nationalities. What a crock of sh!t. That's like saying all Italians are shorter and have better muscle definition than all Germans, and that all English are prissy and sit around drinking tea with their pinky finger sticking up. But for some reason people allow for the fact that Europeans are distinct individuals, not walking stereotypes off an assembly line.

Like I said, some things in the article are pretty much spot on, but there's a load of BS to sift through as well. Many people who don't know the difference will probably take it all as gospel.

wiz cool c

05-01-2017, 05:35 PM

To me it is all marketing bullsh*t like Mike Tyson in his prime against two Mike Tysons would look like the tai chi vs mma video lol.

The conditioning of the master even if he had the moves of the mma guy he looked like he has a weak back compared to the mma guy like a twenty year old Tyson running doing leg work six hours a day would dummy a fat fifty year old current Tyson.

A big thing between an eight year student of mma vs a kata student is the kung fu guy spends four years on staff and sword, etc which the fake kung fu hippy guys on youtube dont do like Mcdojo schools they never build the proper foundation and strength from weapons training and the good kung fu guys spend four years on kata basics with four years weapons foundation training while the Muay Thai guy does three years shadow boxing and four years cardio and sparring.

Also I think before the days of pirates and guns lol good martial soldiers for hire would train weapons for ten years twelve hours a day before being employable nowadays people are lucky to train twice a week.

I study and love kung fu like most of us here do, but sooner or later you got to call bull****. I don't blame this MMA guy he didn't go to the Tai chi guys school and challenge him. this tai chi guy was so delusional he actually thought he could fight without ever practicing fighting. I had a little incident yesterday. I have been at my Shifu's school for over a year and a half. been doing this style for several years in my previous city, and doing martial arts for decades before that. so recently[last two months] my Shifu's kung fu brother has been at the school and he brings along this young like 18 maybe 20 year old guy who severed in the Chinese military. his training is a bit in Sanda and qin na. seems his skills are at least decent. but not a whole lot of realistic experience. so recently the kung fu uncle has been getting more involved with teaching some different skills to my Shifu's students. so yesterday during the pad hitting class, my Shifu's kung fu brother is teaching some basic Sanda skills. the young guy is also walking around acting like a teacher and basically showing off to the younger students.

so at one point the young guy starts trying to teach me some basic punch I learned over 20 years ago. and last weekend he was trying to do some nonsense demo stuff with me. so the whole class is watching now and I lost it. I punched him in the jaw[lightly] while he was TEACHING me. he doesn't. he doesn't try blocking or move, lets out a kind of stunned laugh. he goes on continuing trying to teach me some basic move I learned before he was alive on this earth. and I do it again punch him on the jaw with my other hand. he didn't even prepare for something[I would if this happened to me] so he just continues to run his mouth and I tap his groin with a front instep kick. through all this he never used footwork, tried blocking or defending himself. yet he is teaching me Sanda.

then my Shifu's kung fu brother come up to me later when I'm doing a kicking combination, he starts off with no and shaking his head[here we go,im thinking] he is going to reteach me how to do a round house kick. something I learn thirty years ago. I just couldn't do the whole let me be quiet and pretend I don't know how to do this and let him be the MASTER. I told him in Chinese[I'm tired, I had knee surgery before, and I don't want to give my body any problem].

The funny thing is at 46 and with reconstructive knee surgery, I still train everyday, about two hours. sometimes in the yard by myself sometimes with the kids. The Kung fu uncle and his young apprentice never train. I have never seen either of them train or sweat.

wiz cool c

05-01-2017, 05:38 PM

I've long felt that having a solid background in non-CMA prior to taking up kung fu is a big advantage. The vast majority of kung fu people I've personally known who really excelled at actually fighting with kung fu against all types of opponents already had extensive experience in other arts/methods: judo, various styles of karate; boxing, kickboxing/MT, etc. There was already an extensive foundation of sparring or fighting in place.

yeah I am sorry to say that has been my experience too. if people trained correctly though that wouldn't be necessary. I wrote an article about this recently yet to be published.

shanghai-mantis

05-01-2017, 07:02 PM

Xu has set this situation up so its a loss for Taiji whatever. The young Chen village guys train Sanda, which Xu is saying is not valid, as even if they win they arent using Taiji to fight him.

My hope is this whole thing will drag CMA out of the hole its dug itself into. Just yesterday was training in the park with Rendahai, and a guy in beautiful white silks turned up next to us, a crowd surrounded him with camera phones while he did some little tricks having people grab his write... all the while looking really smug and full of himself.

As Lei Lei discovered, getting punched in the face by someone really wanting to hurt you is very different to doing Push Hands in the park. What I think he should have done was stand his ground, cover his head and meet the force head on. That would have allowed them to go into close enough range for him to at least attempt his Push Hands stuff. If I get overwhelmed in sparring, my general reaction is to do this, and then stick to the opponents arms so I can limit his attacks and gain some control over him.

shanghai-mantis

05-01-2017, 07:08 PM

2. Of all the CMA, only Wing Chun was effective against other styles. Total bull****. The author is obviously a Bruce Lee/Ip Man worshipper. He either ignores or is unaware of the fact that CLF has stepped up and been proven effective in various formats, including against Muay Thai. Maybe not in MMA yet, but CLF fighters have put themselves out there for decades. But obviously, those who did trained to fight competitively with it.

Related to No. 2: Wing Chun can be used to easily beat up karate or TKD guys. Depends on the individuals. I've seen many examples to the contrary.

3. Chinese parents are proud and happy for their kids to learn traditional kung fu (Wing Chun, etc.) but equate fighting sports like MMA with gangsterism. When I lived in Taiwan, many kids' parents equated traditional kung fu with gangsterism, and preferred them to study Taekwondo, kendo, etc., considering the latter to be cleaner, more professional, and more wholesome.

In mainland, any sort of combat sports or MA are considered for poor rural kids. TKD is about the only one parents would let their kids near. Theyd rather their kids learn English, Maths or Piano.

I dont get the whole attitude that Wing Chun is the only effective CMA. To me, northern styles like Mantis, Tongbei, Baji, Xinyi Liuhe, old Shaolin etc are much more aggressive and can easily be adapted to ring-fighting mor than WC.

Subitai

05-01-2017, 07:11 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
I've long felt that having a solid background in non-CMA prior to taking up kung fu is a big advantage. The vast majority of kung fu people I've personally known who really excelled at actually fighting with kung fu against all types of opponents already had extensive experience in other arts/methods: judo, various styles of karate; boxing, kickboxing/MT, etc. There was already an extensive foundation of sparring or fighting in place.

Yup, what Jimbo wrote :) I had come to the same conclusion. Whenever I heard stories of a Tai Chi guy who could fight, he also had HARD style training when he was younger. I.e. usually not just Tai Chi alone. It was sometimes met with opposition...dang Tai chi almightyists!!!

I have written on other forums in the past and others have said before me that: Tai Chi makes whatever or other art you do = Better.

shanghai-mantis

05-01-2017, 07:16 PM

Yup, what Jimbo wrote :) I had come to the same conclusion. Whenever I heard stories of a Tai Chi guy who could fight, he also had HARD style training when he was younger. I.e. usually not just Tai Chi alone. It was sometimes met with opposition...dang Tai chi almightyists!!!

I have written on other forums in the past and others have said before me that: Tai Chi makes whatever or other art you do = Better.

The only Taiji teacher Ive met who could fight, had a strong background in Sanda, Shuai Jiao, Chinese police MA and Xinyi Liuhe.

diego

05-02-2017, 05:36 AM

I study and love kung fu like most of us here do, but sooner or later you got to call bull****. I don't blame this MMA guy he didn't go to the Tai chi guys school and challenge him. this tai chi guy was so delusional he actually thought he could fight without ever practicing fighting. I had a little incident yesterday. I have been at my Shifu's school for over a year and a half. been doing this style for several years in my previous city, and doing martial arts for decades before that. so recently[last two months] my Shifu's kung fu brother has been at the school and he brings along this young like 18 maybe 20 year old guy who severed in the Chinese military. his training is a bit in Sanda and qin na. seems his skills are at least decent. but not a whole lot of realistic experience. so recently the kung fu uncle has been getting more involved with teaching some different skills to my Shifu's students. so yesterday during the pad hitting class, my Shifu's kung fu brother is teaching some basic Sanda skills. the young guy is also walking around acting like a teacher and basically showing off to the younger students.

so at one point the young guy starts trying to teach me some basic punch I learned over 20 years ago. and last weekend he was trying to do some nonsense demo stuff with me. so the whole class is watching now and I lost it. I punched him in the jaw[lightly] while he was TEACHING me. he doesn't. he doesn't try blocking or move, lets out a kind of stunned laugh. he goes on continuing trying to teach me some basic move I learned before he was alive on this earth. and I do it again punch him on the jaw with my other hand. he didn't even prepare for something[I would if this happened to me] so he just continues to run his mouth and I tap his groin with a front instep kick. through all this he never used footwork, tried blocking or defending himself. yet he is teaching me Sanda.

then my Shifu's kung fu brother come up to me later when I'm doing a kicking combination, he starts off with no and shaking his head[here we go,im thinking] he is going to reteach me how to do a round house kick. something I learn thirty years ago. I just couldn't do the whole let me be quiet and pretend I don't know how to do this and let him be the MASTER. I told him in Chinese[I'm tired, I had knee surgery before, and I don't want to give my body any problem].

The funny thing is at 46 and with reconstructive knee surgery, I still train everyday, about two hours. sometimes in the yard by myself sometimes with the kids. The Kung fu uncle and his young apprentice never train. I have never seen either of them train or sweat.

I actually dont mind all the fake mcdojo schools or the entertainment culture behind martial arts like if an old person gets attacked by a wild dog they are better off trying to find a broom stick staff lol then trying to attempt a bjj takedown. My bak mei school is in a popular city so all types of students have trained in it from Lion Dance students to people from other styles that are famous on youtube for sparring like Judo, BJJ and Muay Thai.

What is the 120 pound 18 year old with less skills than the 40 year old Heavyweight going to do in a kickbox match?. A good martial art would give you skills to improvise so give the lightweight a can of mace he now has a chance to escape the heavy attacks from the big guy. Give the Wing Chun guy his two swords and let the mma guy use his takedowns see what school wins.

I mean would you teach your grandma ground and pound or buy her a knife, I like that martial art has an entertainment culture that attracts all types of athletes and most may not be super american green berets lol but at least there is enough styles out there that the average joe may pick up enough skills and aggression with a weapon to not just get run over by crazy people.

LFJ

05-02-2017, 06:29 AM

Xu has set this situation up so its a loss for Taiji whatever. The young Chen village guys train Sanda, which Xu is saying is not valid, as even if they win they arent using Taiji to fight him.

lol They haven't even fought yet... What a copout.

Wasn't he saying particularly Tai Chi, but in fact the whole CMA world is full of fakers?

He'll fight an obvious fraud, but then when real martial artists step up he looks for excuses to avoid facing them. Bit cowardly...

My hope is this whole thing will drag CMA out of the hole its dug itself into. Just yesterday was training in the park with Rendahai, and a guy in beautiful white silks turned up next to us, a crowd surrounded him with camera phones while he did some little tricks having people grab his write... all the while looking really smug and full of himself.

That's funny! He was actually trying to show off or show you guys up?

Should've welcomed him to a little sparring session, unless he was like 60~70 something.

As Lei Lei discovered, getting punched in the face by someone really wanting to hurt you is very different to doing Push Hands in the park. What I think he should have done was stand his ground, cover his head and meet the force head on. That would have allowed them to go into close enough range for him to at least attempt his Push Hands stuff.

That's assuming he had any practical experience using his Push Hands stuff.

It probably would have ended worse for him if he had done that.

Based on the dishonorable conduct Xu shows in this clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXyTDCvVOQU) in front of a handful of buddies, kicking this weaker, inexperienced dude in the face when he's already down, I could foresee in the very public match where he had something to prove, if they clashed it would have been clinch to takedown to actual arm break even if the guy tapped if he knew how.

The guy just comes off as a massive douche, but I agree, CMA needs to be "drug from the hole it's dug itself into". Unfortunately, this sort of thing will likely cause CMA to be abandoned even more, as people interested in actual fighting will jump on the MMA bandwagon as it gains steam in China, rather than training CMA in a more practical way.

LFJ

05-02-2017, 06:39 AM

so at one point the young guy starts trying to teach me some basic punch I learned over 20 years ago. and last weekend he was trying to do some nonsense demo stuff with me. so the whole class is watching now and I lost it. I punched him in the jaw[lightly] while he was TEACHING me. he doesn't. he doesn't try blocking or move, lets out a kind of stunned laugh. he goes on continuing trying to teach me some basic move I learned before he was alive on this earth. and I do it again punch him on the jaw with my other hand. he didn't even prepare for something[I would if this happened to me] so he just continues to run his mouth and I tap his groin with a front instep kick. through all this he never used footwork, tried blocking or defending himself. yet he is teaching me Sanda.

I dunno man, some times you need to acknowledge the difference between demo mode and fight mode. Why are you trying to fight a guy who's explaining something?

Any smartass can say "well, I could just do this" or get in a free pop when something is being demoed.

Better, I think, to respectfully let them show their thing, then ask them to do it in real time with you being noncompliant. Otherwise, you just make yourself look...

shanghai-mantis

05-02-2017, 07:07 AM

@LFJ

I'm not saying I think Xu is particularly great or anything. But I am quite enjoying the storm he is kicking up now. Give it time, and someone decent will come and kick his ass. There are a lot of good guys over here, just they need a prod to step into the spotlight.

Jimbo

05-02-2017, 07:12 AM

Let's suppose a properly fight-trained kung fu guy adapted his art enough to make it a part of his sport MMA fighting, and could clearly use it effectively in the ring. He still couldn't win in the public opinion:

1. The TCMA people would say he isn't really using his art (whichever CMA style that is), because..."He does this; he doesn't do that; his rear foot was up when he...his elbow was 2.5 inches too far to the left when he..."

2. If he won, the MMA fans/pundits/internet experts would say, "This proves nothing. He didn't beat a legitimate MMA fighter; he beat an old guy...he beat a newbie...etc."

3. However, if the CMA guy lost to the same fighter in the above example, the pundits would say, "Of course he lost; kung fu sucks. Told ya so. LMFAO."

Just like many people were claiming that Lyoto Machida wasn't using Shotokan karate in his fights; whereas, anyone with a brain who is at all familiar with Shotokan or similar karate styles could see that he did indeed adapt it very effectively into MMA as his core.

CMA as a whole (and that comprises a lot of different MAs) has become the collective whipping boy of MMA. Even though there are other MAs that, AFAIK, have never been successfully proven, or even attempted, in an MMA fight, at least in the West, such as FMA, Silat and Krav Maga. Yet those arts still have lots of respect from the public.

wiz cool c

05-02-2017, 07:17 AM

I dunno man, some times you need to acknowledge the difference between demo mode and fight mode. Why are you trying to fight a guy who's explaining something?

Any smartass can say "well, I could just do this" or get in a free pop when something is being demoed.

Better, I think, to respectfully let them show their thing, then ask them to do it in real time with you being noncompliant. Otherwise, you just make yourself look...

why because I have been at the school for a year and a half and he has been there maybe a month. because I am 46 and have done martial arts 30 years, he studied a little in the army. cause he is trying to teach me something I learned before he was born, cause no one asked him to try and teach me. so if he wants to play teacher with me well, prove it pal. prove what you are showing me works. its calling bull****.

if he is teaching sanda he should know how to fight. after I popped him once he should have been on guard, I popped him again and then again. I don't need advice on how to fight from someone like that thanks. not to mention I am obviously his senior in that I have trained at the school for a year and a half and he is just been hanging around [not training] but doing little nonsense tricks and showing off and other nonsense. mans got to do what a mans got to do sorry pal. I can guess what comes next[well you have been doing martial arts for 30 years you should be more humble] ,or some other nonsense. yeah go into a thaiboxing gym in thialand ,or a judo school in japan and try playing this game with them and see how that goes. only in kung fu fantasy land does this garbage fly.

wiz cool c

05-02-2017, 07:38 AM

I actually dont mind all the fake mcdojo schools or the entertainment culture behind martial arts like if an old person gets attacked by a wild dog they are better off trying to find a broom stick staff lol then trying to attempt a bjj takedown. My bak mei school is in a popular city so all types of students have trained in it from Lion Dance students to people from other styles that are famous on youtube for sparring like Judo, BJJ and Muay Thai.

What is the 120 pound 18 year old with less skills than the 40 year old Heavyweight going to do in a kickbox match?. A good martial art would give you skills to improvise so give the lightweight a can of mace he now has a chance to escape the heavy attacks from the big guy. Give the Wing Chun guy his two swords and let the mma guy use his takedowns see what school wins.

I mean would you teach your grandma ground and pound or buy her a knife, I like that martial art has an entertainment culture that attracts all types of athletes and most may not be super american green berets lol but at least there is enough styles out there that the average joe may pick up enough skills and aggression with a weapon to not just get run over by crazy people.

I'm not quite sure what you are tying to say here if you are referring to me as the 40 year old heavy weight, I'm about 170 pounds not a heavy weight and am 5 foot 9. that 18 years old is the same height maybe 20 pounds lighter, has youth on his side and was trained in the military, and is the one who choose to try and train his senior in drum roll please" kick boxing".[by senior I mean the guy who has been around at the school longer].he put himself in that situation. as for all the other stuff you are saying, it is not related to the topic.

LFJ

05-02-2017, 07:54 AM

There are a lot of good guys over here, just they need a prod to step into the spotlight.

Yes, I've been happily surprised before. I'll be glad to see that happen some day.

LFJ

05-02-2017, 07:57 AM

why because I have been at the school for a year and a half and he has been there maybe a month. because I am 46 and have done martial arts 30 years, he studied a little in the army. cause he is trying to teach me something I learned before he was born, cause no one asked him to try and teach me. so if he wants to play teacher with me well, prove it pal. prove what you are showing me works. its calling bull****.

So, ego tripped off by a young kid. Got it.

after I popped him once he should have been on guard, I popped him again and then again.

He shouldn't need to be on guard while explaining something to fellow practitioners in a learning/sharing environment.

If you felt your ego was being challenged, why didn't you just ask him to spar?

yeah go into a thaiboxing gym in thialand ,or a judo school in japan and try playing this game with them and see how that goes. only in kung fu fantasy land does this garbage fly.

I think most serious schools know the difference between demo mode and fight mode.

It proves nothing to tag someone during their demo and explanation of something.

If you really want the guy to prove something, or you want to prove something to him, just ask him to a proper spar.

Popping him during his little demo is just kind of a cheap, d!ck move to me, sorry.

wiz cool c

05-02-2017, 09:11 AM

So, ego tripped off by a young kid. Got it.

He shouldn't need to be on guard while explaining something to fellow practitioners in a learning/sharing environment.

If you felt your ego was being challenged, why didn't you just ask him to spar?

I think most serious schools know the difference between demo mode and fight mode.

It proves nothing to tag someone during their demo and explanation of something.

If you really want the guy to prove something, or you want to prove something to him, just ask him to a proper spar.

Popping him during his little demo is just kind of a cheap, d!ck move to me, sorry.

bla bla bla

GeneChing

05-02-2017, 02:36 PM

Kung fu experts next in line for MMA fighter who whipped tai chi master in just 10 seconds (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2092285/chinas-kung-fu-experts-step-out-challenge-mma-fighter-who-beat)
Tai chi exponents say they’ll take up the challenge issued by MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong
PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 02 May, 2017, 2:24pm
UPDATED : Tuesday, 02 May, 2017, 11:50pm

https://cdn3.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980x551/public/images/methode/2017/05/02/d73f297a-2ef6-11e7-8928-05b245c57f03_1280x720_234920.JPG
Zhuang Pinghui

At least three traditional martial arts masters have picked up the gauntlet thrown down by mixed martial arts (MMA) fighter Xu *Xiaodong, saying they were willing to face him in combat to defend their tactics and traditions.
But exponents of traditional martial arts said that even if the challengers lost in the ring against Xu, it would not mean their approach was inferior to the modern MMA way.
Xu, a trained kung fu free-combat sportsman who taught himself MMA, has claimed that traditional martial arts are outdated and only good for keeping in shape. In combat, free-style fighting or boxing was more practical, The Beijing News quoted him as saying on Monday.
Xu’s comments came after he took just 10 seconds to defeat tai chi master Wei Lei – who also calls himself Lei Lei – in a fight in Chengdu, Sichuan province, last week, reigniting debate over which approach is superior. Wei is a practitioner of the Yang style of tai chi, characterised by slow, steady movements.
Xu said on his microblog that he could take on two or three traditional martial artists and a number had already accepted.
Among Xu’s challengers were two tai chi masters Lu Xing and Wang Zhanhai; Guangzhou native Li Shangxian who specialises in the Shaolin Meihua Zhuang form of Chinese boxing, and Yi Long, a monk known for his martial arts prowess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B-wxF-z6sc
WATCH: A tai chi master repels his opponents
continued next post

GeneChing

05-02-2017, 02:37 PM

Lu told the Chengdu Business News that he wanted to teach Xu a lesson.
“He is deeply biased against traditional martial arts and his words were insulting. I challenged him so he could have a fresh perspective of tai chi and the true traditional martial arts,” said Lu, who specialises in a form of tai chi known as tuishou, or pushing hands.
Why Chinese exercises such as tai chi are so good for patients’ all-round health
Lu said he was 80 per cent sure of winning because tai chi masters had “an iron fist, air foot and iron back, which took more than 20 years of hard training”.
Xu’s form of martial arts was more about projecting an explosive force, he said.
Wang, a Henan native who practises the Chen style of tai chi, said he decided to fight Xu to silence online dissenters.
The Chen style of tai chi is characterised by a “silk-reeling” movement that alternates fast and slow motions and bursts of power.

WATCH: The 10-second duel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUOXGQ0MqP0

Yi, the fighter monk, wrote on his microblog that he would not stand for the MMA fighter insulting traditional Chinese martial arts and “deceiving the public”.
Jiang Lugui, president of the Taohua Tai Chi Research Institute under the Sichuan Martial Arts Association, said tai chi had changed over time from a combat technique to a form of exercise.
“People practice martial arts not to kill but to cultivate a healthy body. Tai chi has largely developed into a competitive sport or exercise for health,” Jiang said.
“The practical nature of tai chi, to kill or overpower someone quickly, is no longer the reason people practise it.”
He said tai chi was now more of about showing technique and even some senior kung fu masters might not win a fight because they had stopped practising the combat element.
“Traditional martial arts called for long hours of practising some lethal moves to overpower an opponent quickly. But this is not appropriate in the modern era,” Jiang said.
Another tai chi master from the Beijing Martial Arts Association, said tai chi and mixed martial arts did not follow the same rules and exponents of the two should not go up against each other.

We know Yi Long (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?57515-Shaolin-fighter-Yi-Long). The plot thickens for That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About).

Jimbo

05-02-2017, 03:03 PM

Well, I hope whoever takes up the challenge from now on is young enough, has actual fighting experience, and comes actually prepared for a fight and not just push hands demos and playing hands with awed students. I can imagine a lot of Taiji masters who've never had any full-contact fighting experience, watching the fight video and thinking he would be an easy opponent to exploit with his forward momentum. I really hope they don't fall into the trap of their own BS: "When he rushes me with punches like that, I'll just use my '4 ounces to repel his thousand pounds' attack."

I'm hoping the next challenge will have a different outcome, but I'm not too optimistic.

bawang

05-02-2017, 06:32 PM

Subitai

05-02-2017, 09:01 PM

And of course...

If a TC fighter of any sorts is able to beat this MMA exponent, people will say that he was not a good representative of MMA to begin with.

B.Tunks

05-02-2017, 11:35 PM

shanghai-mantis

05-03-2017, 02:26 AM

Jimbo

05-03-2017, 07:10 AM

Nah not gonna happen bro no ground game

I'm actually very excited. If Chen village gets humiliated then they prolly lower the 40k usd baishi fee. Now I will finally have chance to become Chen disciple #kungfubargainbin

40K to baishi? Holy crap. Is that for everyone or mainly foreigners/outsiders?

Jimbo

05-03-2017, 07:15 AM

I think it might not be too long until he is instructed to shut his mouth (or at least some kind of media blackout) once the public debate swings in a nationalistic direction. He is after all highlighting the inferiority of a Chinese cultural treasure against a distinctly foreign construct. If anyone does manage to beat him they will be hailed as a national hero.

Great point. I hadn't even thought of that. Although at this point it might be a bit late, since so many people have already seen the fight video. Blacking him out completely at this point will look like trying to sweep a weakness that's already been exposed under the rug so people will 'forget'.

Does a high percentage of people in China even care about TCMA nowadays?

bawang

05-03-2017, 11:05 AM

40K to baishi? Holy crap. Is that for everyone or mainly foreigners/outsiders?

Errybody. 20 disciples is 800k. 3 levels of discipleship so 1 to 3 million

Zui Quan

05-03-2017, 02:31 PM

That is problem with most of those styles that mix faith with reality. A martial artist that trained in a style based in "ancient asian magic" trying to defeat a person that actually tests and tries his skills with little to no self-delusion is no diferent than,for example,a religious person trying to prove god's existence to a scientist.The first cases just won't win,simple as that.(please,don't transform this in a religious argument,i just used it as an example)

I highly doubt that the yang family were as much "esoteric" as the so called "tai chi masters" of today. You just can't win without knowing how a combat works,simple as that,its illogical.

The same thing can be said comparing aikido with old aikijutsu considering aikido students also have their butts handed to them considerably often.

If you want to teach "soccer mom hobbie" martial arts,whatever,but please,don't mix things up.

B.Tunks

05-03-2017, 03:44 PM

He already is. CCTV covered it, and had a formal response the the CMAA who arent too happy about it.
Everyone's getting involved, including Li Lianjie.

B.Tunks

05-03-2017, 03:46 PM

Does a high percentage of people in China even care about TCMA nowadays?
A lot of people still do, including many influential people.

Punch.HeadButt

05-03-2017, 06:10 PM

If a TCMA guy were to accept his challenge and knock him out with a solid straight right, I'd bet dollars to donuts it would be met with cries of "that was an MMA/Boxing/Muay Thai move, not TCMA".

shanghai-mantis

05-03-2017, 07:01 PM

https://www.facebook.com/groups/xingyi/permalink/10155303429191248/

Here Wei Lei says he lost because if he really punched Xu, he would have killed him.

Jimbo

05-03-2017, 07:52 PM

https://www.facebook.com/groups/xingyi/permalink/10155303429191248/

Here Wei Lei says he lost because if he really punched Xu, he would have killed him.

That's pathetic. If he already "knew" that Taiji was too deadly to fight with, why did he accept the challenge? A poor attempt to save face. That's the type of excuse someone might have made half a century ago.

Jimbo

05-03-2017, 07:57 PM

And of course...

If a TC fighter of any sorts is able to beat this MMA exponent, people will say that he was not a good representative of MMA to begin with.

This is very true. I made some similar observations in post #27.

shanghai-mantis

05-03-2017, 08:29 PM

That's pathetic. If he already "knew" that Taiji was too deadly to fight with, why did he accept the challenge? A poor attempt to save face. That's the type of excuse someone might have made half a century ago.

That, and he tripped over his own shoe lace

LFJ

05-03-2017, 10:33 PM

the guy is the fonder of Chinese mma. he brought mma to china in 2001. he is the shi deyang of mma. getting ko by him is a great honor.

This is funny.

Did you not read the article in the post by Gene (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About&p=1302695#post1302695) that says he "taught himself MMA"?! He's never even had a proper fight himself either.

If you want to talk about someone qualified for the title of "father of MMA in China", look at someone like Silas Maynard who has been managing China's #1 fight team (Fighters Unite) that has been co-promoting, matchmaking, or involved in 3-8 fighting events each week.

He's been in this for the past 11 years over here and says he's never even heard of this Xu Xiaodong guy.

It sounds like this fight of the century between the new and old is actually fake vs fake! lol Nothing out of the ordinary for China though...

Frost

05-04-2017, 01:56 AM

This is very true. I made some similar observations in post #27.

But he isnt is he? according to TCMA guys posting on this very thread he is a self taught MMA guy and has no real fights, and yet he still handed a fairly well known master his back side

If anything that makes it worse,

Its not like that san soo guy who lost to a BJJ blackbelt win 8 pro wins, this guy got destroyed by a self taught basement fighter lol

LFJ

05-04-2017, 02:52 AM

But he isnt is he? according to TCMA guys posting on this very thread he is a self taught MMA guy and has no real fights, and yet he still handed a fairly well known master his back side

If anything that makes it worse,

Its not like that san soo guy who lost to a BJJ blackbelt win 8 pro wins, this guy got destroyed by a self taught basement fighter lol

Wei Lei made up his own Tai Chi style without any practical experience.
Xu Xiaodong taught himself MMA.

So, why is Wei Lei a "master" while Xu Xiaodong is just a "self-taught basement fighter"?
You decided that because you like the sound of masterful TCMA losing to self-taught MMA.

But there is no master vs underdog here.

Fact is, these are just two inexperienced guys who have gathered followings of their own.
The difference is one is completely delusional, while the other is more realistic-minded.

No surprise mimicking realistic MMA will defeat delusional fake Tai Chi.

Jimbo

05-04-2017, 08:01 AM

But he isnt is he? according to TCMA guys posting on this very thread he is a self taught MMA guy and has no real fights, and yet he still handed a fairly well known master his back side

If anything that makes it worse,

Its not like that san soo guy who lost to a BJJ blackbelt win 8 pro wins, this guy got destroyed by a self taught basement fighter lol

True, it makes it worse. Self-taught or not, he could fight and the Taiji guy could not. He at least has the mentality and willingness to punch somebody out. That alone would have given him the advantage over a complete non-fighter, MAist or not. Similar to the many incidences where black belts in various MA have been beaten by untrained street fighters.

Actually, there were some notable MMA fighters who (or so I've heard) at least claimed to have started out self-taught: Rich Franklin, Evan Tanner, Cro-Cop, etc. Of course, they didn't remain self-taught.

GeneChing

05-04-2017, 09:15 AM

Everyone's getting involved, including Li Lianjie. Here's the Jet Li take that B.Tunks was talking about.

Tuesday, May 2, 2017
[2017.05.03] JET LI CALLS FOR THE MARTIAL ART WORLD TO DEFEND TAI CHI (http://hktopten.blogspot.com/2017/05/20170503-jet-li-calls-for-martial-art.html?m=1)

http://orientaldaily.on.cc/cnt/entertainment/20170503/photo/0503-00282-001b1.jpg?t=1493779552955
http://orientaldaily.on.cc/cnt/entertainment/20170503/photo/0503-00282-001b2.jpg?t=1493779549156
http://orientaldaily.on.cc/cnt/entertainment/20170503/photo/0503-00282-001b3.jpg?t=1493779524812
Xu Xiaodong knocks out Wei Lei in 10 seconds

http://orientaldaily.on.cc/cnt/entertainment/20170503/photo/0503-00282-001b4.jpg?t=1493779457940
Jet Li appears on the video and looks much better

http://orientaldaily.on.cc/cnt/entertainment/20170503/photo/0503-00282-001b5.jpg?t=1493779454433
courtesy of on.cc

Mixed martial artist Xu Xiaodong last month knocked out Tai Chi fist master Wei Lei in 10 seconds and shocked the nation, leading many Tai Chi fist schools to issue challenges! Training in martial art since childhood and the star of TAI CHI MASTER, Jet Li (Lee Nn Kit) recently rarely appeared in public due to illness. Since the martial art world in chaos he immediately called for the Tai Chi school to send another to battle mad man Xu Xiaodong and defend Tai Chi. Artist Li Jia also could not help but challenge the "mad man", stating that he would send him on his way at anytime!

Last month mixed martial artist Xu Xiaodong battled Tai Chi master Wei Lei in Sichuan. Xu Xiaodong spent only 10 seconds to knock him out. From the start of the match to the end it only lasted 20 seconds! Tai Chi representative Wei Lei's defeat rocked the nation and triggered a war of words. Many questioned Tai Chi as a national art that could only strengthen the body, some felt that one short battle could not discredit Tai Chi. Xu Xiaodong after the battle arrogantly said that Chinese martial art representative Bruce Lee was not a master fighter. He referred to Bruce Lee as an "amateur master", a martial art promoter and philosopher. He even announced that in 15 days he would defeat all styles and even challenged Chinese boxer king Zou Shiming.

Days ago, after years in film and establishing a "Tai Chi master" image from SHAOLIN TEMPLE TO TAI CHI MASTER national martial art champion Lee Nin Kit has always studied Tai Chi. Seeing various Tai Chi descendants issuing challenge to Xu Xiaodong to defend their honor, Lee Nin Kit also spoke up in support! Yesterday freestyle martial art competition the Kunlun Fight founder Chiang Hua posted Lee Nin Kit's video. Lee Nin Kit appeared to be in good spirit and obviously his health has improved. He said, "How are you everyone, do you watch Kunlun Fight? I do. However if Kunlun Fight runs into Tai Chi, would it be like the video online? What are you thinking? Everyone should keep caring about Kunlun Fight, but also Tai Chi!" Kunlun Fight is a freestyle duel program for various styles. Lee Nin Kit this time spoke up to call for Tai Chi to challenge Xu Xiaodong again. He hoped that everyone would not only continue to care about Tai Chi but also that Tai Chi was not as weak and soft as everyone saw in Wei Lei's defeat.

diego

05-04-2017, 09:18 AM

I'm not quite sure what you are tying to say here if you are referring to me as the 40 year old heavy weight, I'm about 170 pounds not a heavy weight and am 5 foot 9. that 18 years old is the same height maybe 20 pounds lighter, has youth on his side and was trained in the military, and is the one who choose to try and train his senior in drum roll please" kick boxing".[by senior I mean the guy who has been around at the school longer].he put himself in that situation. as for all the other stuff you are saying, it is not related to the topic.

I was commenting on the debate between form styles and sport styles not about you lol the first post was agreeing with you the next post was just laughing at the whole issue of this style and that style.

My one kung fu buddy has never been in a real fight, he started with choy li fut in his teens motivated by movies then he did some muay thai for a couple of years before meeting his BJJ instructor of ten years. He`s done Bak Mei for eight years but slowed down the last four years due to university.

I wrestled as a teen and sparred with a bjj buddy for a year in the Chuck Liddel and Tito Ortiz UFC era like not much at all but I am 6 foot 5 210 pounds my buddy is 5 foot 10 180 pounds I could easily beat his BJJ with any style like watch a dvd of David Carradine Karate and use it on him lol He hasnt been in a real fight, I`m bigger and meaner than him he could only beat me by accident.

So being out of shape he questions what he should spend his time training on but really his technique is not up to par, basically his kung fu sucks. So, how would his muay thai high round kicks to the face be any good... he is not even fast with weapons.

I had this conversation with him a few weeks ago and then this tai chi vs mma fight was posted online, I`m just shaking my head at the Martial media. lol

diego

05-04-2017, 09:47 AM

Frost

05-04-2017, 10:34 AM

also I should add I would hate to fight his bjj instructor who is 5 foot 10 250 pounds and works as a bouncer who makes a living from getting into fights 4 times a week outside the nightclub. I just train forms for stability and so I dont cut my ear off in a kitchen fight lol . My buddies BJJ coach is a genetic freak no steroids, all the pro ufc guys are steroid culture to be champ so there is alot of false advertising in Martial Art from both sides of the dojo, I would like to see it get back into the for self defense aspect of marketing.

Like how do 60 year old retired ufc fighters defend themselves against youth gangs at the ATM machine tournaments lol.
Randy couture is 54 I'd fancy his chances at the ATM over any tcma teacher I've met lol

I have no problems with people training forms and such for health fun etc as long as they understand their limitations, but thinking doing forms and waiving weapon's around will make you a fighter and help you in a bad situation is simply setting yourself up for failure, like this chap did,

It's not a case of what you are training it's how you train it and what you want to get out of it

YouKnowWho

05-04-2017, 10:41 AM

When did you ever see a Taiji guy deals with an opponent who runs fast toward him and tries to knock his head off? If something is not in your daily training, you just can't use in the ring, or on the mat.

Cataphract

05-04-2017, 11:08 AM

Meh. Saw the video. Total waste of time.

diego

05-04-2017, 12:20 PM

Randy couture is 54 I'd fancy his chances at the ATM over any tcma teacher I've met lol

I have no problems with people training forms and such for health fun etc as long as they understand their limitations, but thinking doing forms and waiving weapon's around will make you a fighter and help you in a bad situation is simply setting yourself up for failure, like this chap did,

It's not a case of what you are training it's how you train it and what you want to get out of it

Police use mace and a baton against pcp hobos lol if Randy had a bad knee that day it could be trouble. Most old kung fu peeps train with swords they dont promote themselves as the new Ali...Ali was disabled in his last years im sure taking punches for the cameras didnt help...pre champ 18 year old cassius clay but still conditioned from sparring but no fights ali would rock disabled 50 million times champ ali.

lol

If mike tyson had to fight two mike tysons he would grab a weapon what does olympic boxing have to do with it.

royce did steroids so royce vs two royces on steroids but one royce gets no meat juice lol he would get rocked without a weapon or a lucky stand up strike most of it will look like fancy dancing wu shu footwork as he runs away from the ass whoop.

diego

05-04-2017, 12:34 PM

wiz cool c

05-05-2017, 03:15 AM

[QUOTE=diego;1302755]
I wrestled as a teen and sparred with a bjj buddy for a year in the Chuck Liddel and Tito Ortiz UFC era like not much at all but I am 6 foot 5 210 pounds my buddy is 5 foot 10 180 pounds I could easily beat his BJJ with any style like watch a dvd of David Carradine Karate and use it on him lol He hasnt been in a real fight, I`m bigger and meaner than him he could only beat me by accident.[QUOTE]

haha dvd of David Carradine Karate, that's a good one

GeneChing

05-05-2017, 07:51 AM

http://image5.sixthtone.com/image/5/0/832.jpg

After Embarrassing Loss, Fighter Says Tai Chi Still Relevant (http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1000150/after-embarrassing-loss%2C-fighter-says-tai-chi-still-relevant)
Mixed martial artist vows to expose ‘masters’ of traditional Chinese combat as frauds.
Zhong Changqian
May 04, 2017

A recent bout between a tai chi master and a mixed martial arts expert only took 10 seconds, but the ensuing debate about the value of traditional Chinese martial arts has been raging ever since.

The tai chi master, Lei Lei, was knocked down almost immediately during the exhibition fight, held on April 27 at a fitness club in Chengdu, capital of southwestern China’s Sichuan province. Xu Xiaodong, the mixed martial artist who defeated Lei Lei, said repeatedly before, during, and after the fight that his mission was to prove that Lei Lei has no skill when it comes to fighting.

Many people have called the lopsided result a defeat of traditional martial arts like tai chi, postulating that the age-old disciplines may have lost their place in the modern world. Lei Lei told Sixth Tone that while tai chi specifically might be outdated or might not conform to modern fighting techniques, kung fu as a whole, and the culture surrounding it, is real and beneficial to the human body.

Others besides Xu have expressed skepticism about Lei Lei’s credentials as a self-professed “master.” Liu Suibin, a well-known tai chi master, said Lei Lei was not a professional tai chi practitioner. Netizens, meanwhile, have shown little mercy, insulting him for being “too fat” to practice kung fu and calling him “a fraud.”

Ever since he was a teenager, Lei Lei had been a fan of bodybuilding. In fact, he worked as a trainer at gyms for more than a decade. However, after suffering bone and muscle pain in his chest, shoulders, and back, he realized at the age of 28 that his body could no longer take the stress of rigorous muscle training. He began to question the sports philosophy of “higher, faster, stronger” and instead shifted his focus to tai chi.

Lei Lei said he began learning the art of tai chi from a “Master Luo” beginning in 2008. Frustrated with all the skepticism he encountered about the effectiveness of traditional martial arts, he decided to accept Xu’s challenge, which the latter had issued via Chinese microblog platform Weibo, in order to draw more attention to the art of tai chi.

Since the fight, Xu has had his hands full — or, more accurately, balled into fists — challenging other kung fu masters, including He Xirui, head of the Wudang Xuanzhen Taoist Kungfu School in central Hubei province. Xu maintains that he will continue his crusade to expose frauds in the traditional martial arts.

For his part, Lei Lei said the defeat has not impacted his business as a teacher of private tai chi classes. “I’m breathing and healing,” he said. “Those who believe I have real kung fu ability will still come to me for training.”

Editor: David Paulk.

(Header image: Lei Lei, a tai chi master, practices tai chi at a park in Chengdu, Sichuan province, May 1, 2017. Zhong Changqian/Sixth Tone)

We know Liu Suibin (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1251). He's coming to KFTC25 AF. (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69762-KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-25TH-ANNIVERSARY-FESTIVAL-May-19-21-2017-San-Jose-CA)

sanjuro_ronin

05-05-2017, 07:57 AM

Goes back to what we have often discussed, ad nauseam here:
If MA are about fighting then you MUST be able to fight with them and not just some poor untrained slob BUT a trained fighter.
IF MA are NOT about fighting, well...

GeneChing

05-05-2017, 08:28 AM

Chinese entrepreneur stumps up ¥10 million purse to defeat MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2093167/chinese-entrepreneur-stumps-y10-million-purse-defeat-mma-fighter)
Prize to be split over five bouts, says founder of drinks empire
PUBLISHED : Friday, 05 May, 2017, 7:03pm
UPDATED : Friday, 05 May, 2017, 10:58pm
Sarah Zheng
http://twitter.com/_szheng
sarah.zheng@scmp.com

4 May 2017

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980x551/public/images/methode/2017/05/05/3c01b3d6-3173-11e7-8928-05b245c57f03_1280x720_225822.jpg

A Chinese tycoon is offering a total of 10 million yuan to people who can defeat the mixed martial arts (MMA) fighter who sparked a storm over the merits of traditional martial arts versus modern combat.
Chen Sheng, the multimillionaire entrepreneur who founded the Tiandi No. 1 drinks company, has raised the stakes to “defend the dignity” of martial artists after tai chi master Wei Lei was pounded into submission in under 10 seconds by MMA fighter, coach and promoter Xu Xiaodong.
Chen’s prize money will be allotted over five separate matches against Xu, who has been openly accepting challenges from martial arts masters from around China, the Information Times reported.

https://cdn3.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/05/05/9a64c9a4-3141-11e7-8928-05b245c57f03_1320x770_225822.JPG

The winner of each bout will pocket 1.5 million yuan (US$218,000 or HK$1.7 million, while the loser will take home 500,000 yuan. Chen said he was willing to allow Xu to take home millions if he wins.
Xu Xiaodong says he wants to expose ‘fake’ traditional martial artists. Photo: SCMP Pictures
“I want him to understand, he used this kind of extreme method to provoke Chinese traditional culture, and will need to pay the price,” said Chen, who also known as “the king of pork” in Guangzhou where he launched the Guangdong No. 1 Food Co.
The initial duel between Wei and Xu in Chengdu, Sichuan province followed an online quarrel, in which Xu had dismissed traditional martial arts as being a fraud. The ensuing high-profile match – live streamed to more than 1 million viewers – stirred up a nationwide debate about the legitimacy of Chinese martial arts, which have over 2,000 years of history and are a point of pride for many people.
“From what I can see, Chinese martial arts has a long history,” Chen told the Information Times. “Tai chi is used more for exercise and self-cultivation. Many of my friends practise it, and China has millions of tai chi aficionados. Are they saying all of this is false?”
Xu, who is trained in kung fu free-combat, shot to fame after the initial match, and has loudly criticised traditional martial arts for being outdated and “a lie” without combat purposes.
“[I] crack down on fake things, because they are fake. Fake things must be eliminated. No question,” Xu, nicknamed “madman” by fans for his ruthless fighting style, told the Global Times.
‘Tai chi can be used in combat, but...’: Jack Ma speaks up over tai chi-MMA debate raging in China
Earlier this week, he challenged martial artists around the country through posts on his Weibo microblog, even bragging that he could take on two or three at a time. In a Weibo post on Monday, Xu said the founder of a kickboxing television programme would fork out 1.2 million yuan if he accepted challenges from different martial artists.

https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/05/05/9e89163e-3141-11e7-8928-05b245c57f03_1320x770_225822.jpg
Xu Xiaodong (right) moves in to dispatch tai chi master Wei Lei. Photo: SCMP Pictures

Defenders of traditional martial arts have taken up the call, including tai chi masters Lu Xing and Wang Zhanhai; Shaolin Chinese boxer Li Shangxian, and Yi Long, a monk and renowned martial artist.
Lu, the president of the Sichuan tai chi pushing hands research institute, told the Chengdu Business News: “[Xu] is deeply biased against the traditional martial arts and his words were insulting. I challenged him so he could have a fresh perspective of tai chi and the true traditional martial arts.”
In subsequent interviews this week, Wei blamed his embarrassing defeat on reasons ranging from slipping on a new pair of shoes with rubber soles, to avoid causing “a loss of life”, and because winning would cause “disharmony”.
The Chinese Wushu Association said in a statement on Wednesday that the Xu-Wei match, where they were “throwing down the gauntlet”, violates martial arts ethics and potentially the law.
“Martial arts is a traditional Chinese sport as well as an excellent traditional culture that includes various forms like martial arts repertoire and free combat,” they said. “We are strongly against such bouts, especially scuffles held in the name of eliminating fake martial arts which are more about fighting and pure aggressiveness.”

What I don't get is why anyone would think that Lei Lei was representative of TCMA. He was obviously outgunned from the get go and clearly not intelligent enough to see that. Heck, I could beat an MMA fighter if you set me up against a crappy one (he'd have to be as crappy as Lei Lei tho :p).

LFJ

05-05-2017, 08:29 AM

frost my bak mei teacher is almost 70 I think 5 foot 7 160 pounds randy is 6 foot 1 210 Marine solid...If my bak mei teacher pulled out his two swords at me id run..if three football jocks drunk talked **** id throw down.

Frost is just trolling as always. He likes to talk sh!t about TCMA, but also claims to train excellent Bak Mei.

He rejects other TCMA out of hand for absence of people tearing it up in the ring;
a criterion by which Bak Mei should also be discounted, if he were logically consistent.

GeneChing

05-05-2017, 08:34 AM

Wasn't wearing Feiyues (http://www.martialartsmart.com/shoes-feiyue-shoes.html). Rookie move. This only reiterates my assertion that Lei Lei was crappy from the get go. :rolleyes:

Tai Chi 'master' blames his 'slippery shoes' for embarrassing loss in fight against MMA fighter (http://shanghaiist.com/2017/05/04/slippery-shoes.php)
BY ALEX LINDER IN NEWS ON MAY 4, 2017 9:30 PM

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/alexlinder/xu_xiaodong2.jpg

After being beaten down in 10 seconds in a highly-publicized match with a MMA fighter last week, a disgraced Tai Chi "master" has now blamed that embarrassing loss on his "slippery shoes."
41-year-old Lei Lei, the founder of the fledgling "Thunder-style" of Tai Chi in Chengdu faced off against 38-year-old Beijing-based MMA fighter, coach and promoter Xu Xiaodong, known by fans as a "madman" for his ruthless aggression in the ring. Prior to the match, which was live-streamed to more than a million viewers, Xu insulted traditional Chinese martial arts, saying that they were all about style with no substance.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/alexlinder/xu_xiaodong3.jpg

He then put that belief to the test. About 10 seconds after the fight began, it was over with Xu taking Wei to the ground and pummeling his face with punches in front of a large crowd in Chengdu. The Tai Chi master hadn't managed to get in a single blow, a fact that he has since blamed on his choice of footwear.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/alexlinder/xu_xiaodong6.jpeg

In a video interview, Lei explains that on the day of the fight he wore a pair of new shoes with rubber soles. The floor of the arena was also covered in soft rubber, which caused him to lose his balance while retreating backwards, slip, fall and get his brains beaten in.
"He never touched me when I was standing up... I only got hit when I fell on the floor," Wei said. "Do I need to explain any more?"

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/alexlinder/lei_lei3.jpg

Following his loss, Lei has offered a number of different excuses. In one interview, he said that he did not want to win the fight because winning would cause "disharmony" in his life. In another interview, he said that he had held back in the fight, so as not to kill his opponent with his true power.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/alexlinder/lei_lei.jpg

The fight has sparked a contentious debate online over whether traditional Chinese martial arts can stand up to more modern styles of fighting. Xu has made his position known, throwing down the gauntlet to any other masters who think they can take him, challenging them to a no-holds-barred fight, bragging that the could take on two or three of them at the same time. A true promoter, Xu says that the event will be broadcast across the country with 1.2 million yuan in prize money in total up for grabs.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/alexlinder/xu_xiaodong4.jpeg

A number of martial arts experts have already accepted Xu's challenge to uphold the honor of their discliple. One of these challengers, Tai Chi master Chen Shi, has expressed his confidence online, saying that Wei had been using "Tai Chi crap" against Xu.
Meanwhile, Chinese netizens have said that if shoes were really the problem then Wei should definitely demand a rematch. But in bare feet this time.
In case you somehow missed it. You can watch their first fight below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkQNA6tgcks

See? Chen Shi agrees with me. "Tai Chi crap". :p

Jimbo

05-05-2017, 09:51 AM

Imagine that this exact same fight between the same two people took place 150 years ago, where there is no internet, no social media, and no one to film it. An epic mythology would have been built up around the entire fight and the participants. Complete with epic, artistic descriptions in books. Lol.

RisingCrane

05-05-2017, 11:59 AM

Gweilo_Fist

05-05-2017, 01:14 PM

TCMA cannot and will not progress beyond it's current status and questioned relevance among the professional fighting world until the TCMA community is willing to recognize the flaws or problems within it's own training culture from a practical standpoint.

We can talk about how dangerous TCMA techniques are or how deadly the "true masters" (Whatever that means) were in the glory days, but none of that means anything so long as the current state of TCMA culture continues to cater to a family-friendly oriented training environment with the 3 point scoring system for sparring and a heavy focus on form curriculums for the purpose of student testing or self-cultivation.

It's not that MMA is a better style than TCMA, (TCMA techniques are perfectly fine and effective) but that MMA fighters train more effectively. That's where the difference lies, not in the styles themselves. When an MMA fighter enters a match, he/she is ready and prepared to potentially take a hit at full force and respond accordingly. When a TCMA practitioner enters a match, at least the vast majority of us, are not prepared to take a hit at full force because we weren't properly trained for it. This is what gives an MMA fighter the edge over us. And please don't misunderstand this by thinking being able to take a hit makes you a good fighter. That's not what I am saying. This is just one example.

You can talk about how MMA is just a sport. You can talk about how deadly the techniques in TCMA are. You can talk about multiple attackers scenarios. You can talk about the glory days of the past till cows come home. You can continue to come up with any and all excuses. But none of that means anything because you'd be focusing on the wrong comparison. It's not the style or the techniques with the style that matters, but rather, the training culture as a whole. And until the TCMA community is willing to recognize and admit that there is a flaw or problem in it's current training culture, the MMA community is going to continue to embarrass us.

Subitai

05-05-2017, 01:59 PM

Subitai

05-05-2017, 02:44 PM

I was on FB and saw this... the "Tai chi Master" getting duffed in push hands. Doesn't look good for the so called master: :confused:

You'll probably need to be signed in to FB to watch this:
https://www.facebook.com/lei.guo.12/posts/10208959005911657

YouKnowWho

05-05-2017, 03:25 PM

Most CMA guys don't understand "if you don't spar/wrestle for 3 days, your arms and legs will no longer be yours". No matter how much time that you may spend in "solo" training, you just can't develop

- timing,
- opportunity, and
- angle.

SoCo KungFu

05-05-2017, 07:02 PM

I love that you all are sh!tt!ng your pants over this. Xe isn't much younger than the idiot he beat up. And to you morons crying dude wasn't real taiji or whatever other BS...go do better. Go show your "the realz" taiji or stfu like the coward you are.

SteveLau

05-05-2017, 08:05 PM

With regards the fight, the result is sort of expected. The Taiji artist was 100% in defense mode. That is IMHO a short coming of the style. If one can defense himself so, then his opponent is poor in fight skill, and / or does not want to fight much. But in the fight discussed, the MMA artist was most in attack mode. So what else do we expect will happen?

Another point I would like to mention is should we reponse to the challenge made by the MMA artist after the fight? I don't think we should. From time to time, there is big mouth saying B.S. in public. It is kind of disappointing when wise people like actor Jet Li responsed to it by released a video he made to the public.

Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

diego

05-06-2017, 03:49 AM

Just my own 2 cents. As somebody who has practised Tai Chi for over 30 years AND coached champion MMA fighters, I figure I should respond to the 'challenge' video! Both sides are wrong: Tai Chi is NOT a scam, and Tai Chi is NOT too deadly for the cage. I'm afraid the truth is a little more mundane :) In this clip, I actually demonstrate a tai chi posture, then show how to drill it for self defence/MMA and a little free sparring. Now tell me it isn't 'real' tai chi....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkGgRnBiVlg

That Jenkins Mobb fight in your 2014 MMA World Challenge video was great, Mobb took a beating in the beginning there. I was worried, but then he came through with the cannons to honour the Empire against the American traitors. lol

RisingCrane

05-06-2017, 04:36 AM

That Jenkins Mobb fight in your 2014 MMA World Challenge video was great, Mobb took a beating in the beginning there. I was worried, but then he came through with the cannons to honour the Empire against the American traitors. lol

Haha! Thanks, he is a tough guy, but super nice. He took that fight on 1 weeks notice after the 85kg English fighter pulled out due to injury. It was a good night :)

Neeros

05-06-2017, 06:18 PM

diego

05-07-2017, 11:22 AM

Wish I had training partners.

Vancouver has schools everywhere any style, I am lucky but if I lived somewhere with no Chinatown I would like check out University Judo class or Boxers to see if they would welcome you into their basic sparring club..It would be a commitment to get a Judo Black Belt and all you want is to spar with friends. lol

David Jamieson

05-08-2017, 07:25 AM

I don't understand what the kerfuffle is about?

The one guy trained to fight.
The other guy trained for art.

Gun beats paint brush right?

Jimbo

05-08-2017, 08:27 AM

I don't understand what the kerfuffle is about?

The one guy trained to fight.
The other guy trained for art.

Gun beats paint brush right?

The issue occurs when somebody brings a paint brush to a gunfight.

TBH, I don't see why this 'mad dog' guy has such a big one on for CMAists and Taiji in particular. Why is it so important for him to expose "frauds"? Did he feel defrauded in the past? Or is he just picking on a demographic he's confident he can beat? Is he unable to compete against other MMA fighters? What is it to him what other people do that is unrelated to what he does?

GeneChing

05-08-2017, 09:07 AM

The issue here is is terrain. In an open field, a longer weapon will be a shorter weapon. But in rugged terrain, especially forested like where the Dadaodui battles allegedly took place, a longer weapon might be disadvantageous.

So it's akin to saying that Lei Lei represented Tai Chi/Kung Fu, when he clearly wasn't even skilled enough to know he was outgunned.

http://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/2000x792/public/images/methode/2017/05/05/99f428f4-314e-11e7-8928-05b245c57f03_4000x1584_214801.jpg?itok=cn3PAEk7
WHO WOULD WIN: CHINESE BROADSWORD VS JAPANESE BAYONET? POLICE ACADEMY HAS THE ANSWER (http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/society/article/2093108/who-would-win-chinese-broadsword-vs-japanese-bayonet-police)
After a victory for mixed martial arts over tai chi, This Week in Asia settles another long-running combat rivalry
BY CHOW CHUNG-YAN
6 MAY 2017

http://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/landscape/public/images/methode/2017/05/05/92bf92c6-314e-11e7-8928-05b245c57f03_1280x720_214801.jpg?itok=xNAvrz7y
Police officers armed with Japanese bayonets and Chinese broadswords square off. Photo: Handout

The martial arts world was recently set abuzz when MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong defeated tai chi master Wei Lei in a one-sided, 10-second bout in Chengdu, China. Some believe the victory proves Xu’s claim that traditional martial arts are outdated; others question whether Wei was fit to represent his sport. Either way, with a host of martial arts experts now lining up to fight Xu, the debate over the merits of various fighting styles looks set to rage on. Here, Chow Chung-yan weighs up another long-running combat rivalry - this one with its roots in the second world war

It is common for a country at war to hype up a certain weapon to motivate its people. In China during the second world war, the weapon that most captured the public’s imagination was the Chinese dadao (broadsword).

The war was brutally one-sided. Against Japanese imperial troops armed with bombers and tanks, most Chinese soldiers had only a simple rifle. Not only were the Japanese much better equipped, their soldiers were professionally trained. All Japanese soldiers had to go through intense training in jukendo – fighting with a bayonet.

Jukendo was a combat technique borrowed from the West and combined with traditional Japanese spear fighting moves. In battles, the Japanese applied it with deadly effect.

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/05/05/a2e00f8c-314e-11e7-8928-05b245c57f03_1320x770_214801.jpg
Chinese troops armed with dadao, or broadswords, during the second world war. Photo: Handout

While the Chinese enjoyed a numerical advantage, their soldiers were mostly peasants who had little martial training. Not only were Chinese soldiers outgunned by the Japanese, they were often outfought in melees as well.

In March 1933, a Chinese squad armed with the traditional broadsword carried out a daring sortie under the cover of night against Japanese troops occupying a section of the Great Wall. They won the close-quarter battle, but it was costly. The news greatly cheered the Chinese public.

The war propaganda singled out the dadao for praise, billing it as the killer weapon against Japanese jukendo.

The story was told and retold in the Chinese press and the legend grew with each telling. The dadao soon became the de facto symbol of Chinese resistance.

According to the legend, a group of martial arts masters studied Japanese jukendo and developed a special move to counter it. The story helped to revive Chinese morale and boosted soldiers’ confidence in engaging Japanese at close quarters.

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/05/05/8c521968-314e-11e7-8928-05b245c57f03_1320x770_214801.jpg
Chinese police officers test the dadao against the bayonet in Zhejiang. Photo: Handout

The legend continues to this day. Today, in Chinese war dramas, you often see Chinese soldiers charging towards Japanese invaders with their broadswords raised, killing enemies with ease.

But is the Chinese dadao really effective against Japanese jukendo?

Gone in 10 seconds – Chinese MMA fighter wipes floor with ‘thunder-style’ tai chi master

Three years ago, the academy of armed police in Zhejiang ( 浙江 ) carried out an experiment. Forty armed police officers were organised into two teams. One received jukendo training and the other studied the dadao moves said to be devised by the masters. They then carried out three bouts of simulated fighting.

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/05/05/78d4e49c-314e-11e7-8928-05b245c57f03_1320x770_214801.jpg
The team armed with bayonets won the competition against the broadswords with overwhelming results. Photo: Handout

The team armed with bayonets won the competition with overwhelming results. In one fight, within one minute, the dadao team were “wiped out” while the jukendo team suffered only three casualties.

It was why despite propaganda overdrive on the virtues of the traditional broadsword, Chinese troops throughout the war focused their training on bayonet practice. They eventually reached parity with their Japanese enemies.

https://cdn3.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/05/05/863fa392-314e-11e7-8928-05b245c57f03_1320x770_214801.jpg
The dadao team is wiped out. Photo: Handout

Chow Chung-yan

GeneChing

05-08-2017, 09:37 AM

Hopefully Yi Long won't rely on his iron head technique (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?57515-Shaolin-fighter-Yi-Long&p=1241904#post1241904). :rolleyes:

At least he's closer to Xu Yaodong (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About)'s physique.

Shaolin Monk Hopes to Claim $2-Million Bounty on MMA Fighter’s Head (http://www.scrapdigest.com/shaolin-monk-hopes-claim-2-million-bounty-mma-fighters-head/17669/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=cung%20le)
By Atilano Diaz - May 8, 2017

http://cdn.scrapdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Yi-Long-Xu-Xiaodong-696x392.jpg

Virally popular Chinese amateur MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong is a man with a huge target on his back, following a 10-second beatdown he gave to Tai Chi master Wei Lei in Chengdu last month. In a video that spread like wildfire, Xu is seen relentlessly attacking Wei with punching combinations. And then following him to the mat for some ground-and-pound when Lei crumpled from a right hand.

Now it seems Xu has angered the “traditional” martial arts community as a few have come up issuing challenges. There are a handful of “traditional martial artists” who have expressed interest in facing Xu. However, one incentive could really push things over the edge.

A video of Chinese MMA Fighter Xu Xiaodong’s beatdown of a Tai Chi master went viral

http://cdn.scrapdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Xu-Xiaodong-2.jpg

Chinese amateur MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong recently destroyed Tai Chi master Wei Lei. beating down the old man within 10-seconds in a viral clip that has taken social media. Now many ‘masters’ are after him and want revenge.

Chinese multi-millionaire Mr. Chen Sheng has recently offered over 10-million Chinese yuan (nearly $2-million dollars) to any traditional martial artist who can defeat Xu. Mr. Chen, who is known as the founder of the wildly popular non-alcoholic beverage “Tiandi”, said he wanted to “defend the dignity” of martial artists.

Xu’s one-sided beatdown of Wei Lei sparked intense debates over the effectiveness of traditional martial arts versus modern day fighting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUOXGQ0MqP0

Check out the original footage of the fight here…

Up until a certain point, traditional martial arts such as Kung Fu or Karate, or even Tai Chi, have been thought of to be lethal forms of fighting. However, MMA in the modern day, popularized by Bruce Lee, incorporated the best aspects of each style into one. Nowadays, MMA is seen as the ultimate and purest form of combat.

This apparently did not sit well with the traditional Chinese martial arts community. As soon as word spread of Xu’s destruction of Wei, various traditional martial artists have issued challenges.

Two more Tai Chi masters, Lu Xing and Wang Zhanhai have issued challenges. Lu has already invited Xu for a public duel and vowed to “teach him a lesson”.

http://cdn.scrapdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Xu-Xiaodong.jpg

A Shaolin Monk named Yi Long will be first to challenge Xu

Guangzhou native and Chinese boxing specialist Shangxian who practices Shaolin Meihua Zhuang also expressed interest. Yi Long, a Chinese monk known for his martial arts skill has also made his intentions known and seems to be the first in line to challenge Xu.

Now it seems their efforts will not go to waste and up to $2-million in purse is up for grabs. Mr. Chen explains that the prize pool will be split up over five matches. The winner of each fight gets $300,000 while the loser takes home $100,000.

Pretty sweet deal for Xu either way as he stands to take home at least $500,000 even if he loses each bout. However Chen remained adamant that he wanted Xu to learn some sort of lesson.

“I want him (Xu) to understand, he used this kind of extreme method to provoke Chinese traditional culture, and will need to pay the price.”

Cataphract

05-08-2017, 10:11 AM

Adding insult to injury, Gene? ;)
The Kendo guy in Isshu Jiai (Kendo vs. Naginatado) is far from doomed, although arguably at a disadvantage.

The MMA vs Thunder Style incident is about two guys. Nothing more. Stuff like that can be seen on every school yard around the globe. And of course about a MA community that has such an inferiority complex it will blow it completely out of proportion.

GeneChing

05-08-2017, 10:17 AM

Adding insult to injury, Gene? ;)
Who me? No never. ;)

I'm just delighted to see a topic that everyone seems to enjoy chatting about. It's been a while since we've had a discussion we can all sink our teeth into here. :cool:

Kellen Bassette

05-08-2017, 03:29 PM

B.Tunks

05-08-2017, 06:02 PM

This is good because it's getting a lot of exposure. Both Cung Le and Yi Long offered to fight the guy and it's very doubtful he would fight either of them...and of course this is where everyone says "those guys are MMA/Sanda not Kung Fu!" But both those guys have identified themselves as traditional martial artists and kung fu guys. Obviously both are sport fighters, but if they don't see a necessary distinction why should we?

You can be a traditional martial artist AND train to fight, even if that means, gasp, putting on gloves and stepping into a ring/cage/lei tai. Let him beat up the phonies, plenty of guys are calling him out, if he's going to duck the legit guys people are going to see through it. If he doesn't duck them, he's going to get his butt kicked.

10301

Xu himself has a sanda background. He has said from the beginning the challenge doesn't extend to sanda practitioners. I don't think we'll be seeing any more fights involving him now (unless its something sanctioned on Kunlun Fight or similar). He's already catching heat from the Government and has been publicly accused of being a foreign backed anti-China agitator.

B.Tunks

05-09-2017, 03:56 AM

Massive balls
https://youtu.be/cQxxt0H8DJM

Jimbo

05-09-2017, 07:24 AM

Massive balls
https://youtu.be/cQxxt0H8DJM

Thanks for posting that, B.Tunks.

I wonder how long before that interview 'disappears'.

GeneChing

05-09-2017, 08:06 AM

A lot of odd peripheral discussions are coming out of That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About)
including Economic State of Shaolin Temple today (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?42957-Economic-State-of-Shaolin-Temple-today). I'm delighted to see that it has opened up some discussions. Even though many of them are pretty shallow, discussion is good.

See what I did there? ;)

Clear business models hard to establish due to lack of uniform standards in traditional martial arts (http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1046071.shtml)
Source:Global Times Published: 2017/5/9 19:03:39

Fighting for profits

On April 28, a video emerged showing 37-year-old former mixed martial arts (MMA) fighter Xu Xiaodong knocking out self-proclaimed tai chi master Wei Lei in about 20 seconds. The video quickly went viral on Sina Weibo. Later, Xu proclaimed that he had exposed what he called "fake martial artists." The video has drawn attention to the state of traditional Chinese martial arts. The Beijing News reported on Friday that Shaolin Temple, the famous birthplace of one of China's martial arts, has broadened its business interests beyond teaching martial arts into martial arts performances, tourism and medicine. Other traditional Chinese martial arts have tried to follow its example, but have had less success. Given the early stage of the development of traditional Chinese martial arts, industry experts said that there are no clear business models for martial arts at present.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2017/2017-05-09/d905e03c-0685-4f94-83b2-348e211d4fc0.jpeg
A man practices kung fu at Shaolin Temple in Central China's Henan Province in November 2016. Photo: CFP

China may be home to one of the most famous names in martial arts, but the people behind the country's traditional martial arts have had trouble turning their disciplines into profitable businesses.

Among China's traditional martial art schools, Shaolin Temple has had the most success in developing its brand of kung fu into a profitable business. The temple, nested on Songshan Mountain in Central China's Henan Province, is involved in an array of businesses such as martial arts education and performances.

Although there are at least 13,968 companies in China with the word "Shaolin" in their names, Shaolin Temple has only invested in four of them, with an accumulated investment of 8.51 million yuan ($1.23 million), The Beijing News reported on Friday.

Of the four companies, Shaolin Temple Culture Communication (Dengfeng) Co, with registered capital of 1 million yuan, develops and operates films, TV programs, theatrical performances and video games, the report said.

Another company, Shaolin Yaoju Co, sells medicine, according to Shaolin Temple's website.

The temple's core platform is Shaolin Intangible Assets Management Co. Established in 1988, the company focuses on protecting Shaolin Temple's brand and trademarks.

In 2014, the company's deputy general manager Yuan Mingzhu said that the temple has registered more than 200 trademarks in dozens of countries and regions, The Beijing News reported. In total, Shaolin Temple owns 475 trademarks and its brand is its primary source of income.

Other styles of Chinese martial arts, such as Emei and Wudang, haven't fared as well. Experts said it is hard to turn them into businesses because the forms lack uniform standards.

The first Emei school opened when Wang Jian, former president of the China Emei Kung Fu Research Association, set up Leshan Giant Buddha Martial Arts School in 1993, the Beijing News report said. The school has since become the largest martial arts school in Southwest China's Sichuan Province.

In 2008, Wang established Emei Martial Arts Culture Communication Co, which hosts martial arts performances and sells crafts, among other businesses.

In 2012, Wang told news media that the combined cost of the school and the company was about 6 million yuan a year and the total profit was 2 million yuan in 2011.

In July 2016, the local regulator accused the company of "abnormal operation" for failing to release its 2015 financial report on time, according to The Beijing News.

Wudang is less involved in business.

"*Wudang has *developed slowly over the years, mainly due to systematic problems and the Taoist belief in avoiding fame or fortune," Zhong Yunlong, the former abbot of Purple Heaven Palace, the main Taoist temple at Wudan Mountain, once said in an interview, according to The Beijing News.

No clear business model

It's too early to make a business out of traditional Chinese martial arts, considering their diversity, said Zhang Jiayuan, partner at Beijing-based Ransenhuizhi Investment Fund Management Co.

"Thanks to government incentives, investment in the country's sports industry has grown in recent years, though its scale remains below international levels," Zhang said. "In addition, given that the martial arts industry remains in an early stage of development, no clear, concrete business model has emerged."

The traditional model for a martial arts business is to open schools and charge students to learn the discipline, The Beijing News reported.

However, these schools don't have a large profit margin, said an employee of Xu's Battle Club, a school started by former mixed martial arts (MMA) fighter Xu Xiaodong.

"These schools have to pay for rent, instructors and utilities, while their only income comes from charging for classes," the employee told The Beijing News.

Schools for other martial arts have come up with other ways to make money. Taekwondo schools charge for classes, uniforms and level tests, according to The Beijing News. They also accept a wide range of students and have a diverse group of practitioners.

Given that there are no uniform standards among China's various martial arts, it is hard to form standard competition principles like the ones established in taekwondo, Zhang said.

Although many MMA fighters can earn tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of yuan from each fight, they have to share the income with their agents and teams, The Beijing News said, citing an industry expert. In addition, most match hosts still lose money due to the limited audience.

However, in the process of exploring business models for Chinese traditional martial arts, a new model that integrates martial arts and tourism and culture has been gaining attention.

For example, Wu Xianfeng, director of the management committee of the Wudang Mountain special zone in Central China's Hubei Province, said the zone will step up efforts to boost tourism by integrating Taoist culture, Wudang martial arts, healthcare and the Internet, the domestic news portal people.com.cn reported on April 28.

Sports tourism is the fastest-*growing segment of the global tourism industry, the China Sports Daily reported on Monday, citing World Tourism Organization. China has great potential, given that the country's sports tourism market represents around 5 percent of the domestic market, compared with 20 percent in foreign countries, it noted.

This story is based on a report by The Beijing News.

Kellen Bassette

05-09-2017, 07:21 PM

Massive balls
https://youtu.be/cQxxt0H8DJM

He actually seems like a good guy when he gets to make his case. Maybe he needs to stick around.

Lokhopkuen

05-10-2017, 07:49 AM

LFJ

05-10-2017, 09:31 AM

I'm not sure how good this link will be unless you're on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/wong.yuenming.1/videos/10154346929687102/

He said a few interesting things in the video:
"I think Tai Chi fighting skill doesn't exist in 99% of its practitioner's."
-Xu Xiaodong
He says the Tai Chi guy that he fought had zero martial arts skills and that anyone, the most average guy could've beat him up, that he did nothing special used no real technique!
i like this guy.

I think that was just posted on the previous page.

I have to say I'm impressed by his ability to think independently. A Chinese that can appreciate and admire Japanese is almost unheard of in this country.
Saying that so publicly might cause him some trouble with the brainwashed nationalists, though. Wouldn't be surprised if he got physically attacked for being a traitor.

GeneChing

05-10-2017, 11:36 AM

M.M.A. Fighter’s Pummeling of Tai Chi Master Rattles China (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/world/asia/mma-martial-arts-china-tai-chi.html?_r=0)
By DIDI KIRSTEN TATLOW
MAY 10, 2017

BEIJING — For weeks, the mixed martial arts fighter Xu Xiaodong had been taunting masters of the traditional Chinese martial arts, dismissing them as overly commercialized frauds, and challenging them to put up or shut up.

After one of them — Wei Lei, a practitioner of the “thunder style” of tai chi — accepted the challenge, Mr. Xu flattened him in about 10 seconds.

Mr. Xu may have proved his point, but he was unprepared for the ensuing outrage.

When video of the drubbing went viral, many Chinese were deeply offended by what they saw as an insult to a cornerstone of traditional Chinese culture.

The state-run Chinese Wushu Association posted a statement on its website saying the fight “violates the morals of martial arts.” The Chinese Boxing Association issued similar criticism.

An article by Xinhua, the state news agency, called Mr. Xu a “crazy guy,” saying that the fight had caused people to question whether Chinese martial arts were of any use and even to ask, “What exactly are traditional Chinese martial arts?”

The reaction has been so furious that Mr. Xu has gone into hiding.

“I’ve lost everything, my career and everything,” he said in a message circulating online. “I think many people misunderstand me. I’m fighting fraudulence, but now I’ve become the target.”

Many people around the world assumed that this debate had long been settled. Mixed martial arts fighters have for years held exhibition fights against practitioners of traditional martial arts — kung fu, karate and judo among them. The old ways, for all their balletic grace, lost decisively.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6RrxTBdJs4
Wei Lei, the tai chi master, faced off against Xu Xiaodong, the mixed martial arts fighter, in Chengdu.

Known broadly as wushu, traditional Chinese martial arts include such disparate disciplines as qigong, categorized as an “internal” practice that is mostly spiritual, and kung fu, an “external” art that is practiced by the monks of the Shaolin Temple and was popularized around the world by Bruce Lee. There are hundreds of styles of wushu in China, and many overlap.

Tai chi, while a martial art, is viewed by many today as a spiritual breathing and balance exercise enjoyed by people of all ages, usually performed in slow motion in a quiet park instead of a fight ring.

Mixed martial arts, or M.M.A., is a “no-holds-barred” fighting style developed over the last century from fighting styles around the world. It began to gain popularity in the United States in the 1980s. While it is violent, it does have rules — including no biting, spitting or gouging.

The fight between Mr. Xu and Mr. Wei was brutal. As Mr. Wei circled slowly, arms outstretched in a calm tai chi defense, Mr. Xu lunged, jabbed him to the floor, then used a “ground and pound” technique to subdue him. It was all over in about 10 seconds.

Mr. Xu did not respond to a request for an interview sent to his personal Weibo account a few days after the fight on April 27. Shortly afterward, his account was taken down as the authorities rushed to try to tamp down the controversy.

A woman reached by telephone at the Battle Club in southeast Beijing, where Mr. Xu works, said he was not giving interviews. She declined to give her name.

On Wednesday morning, the door of the Battle Club, in the dingy basement of a high-rise, was locked. Photographs of Mr. Xu and other M.M.A. fighters decorated the walls of the stairwell.

An electrician lingering by a cigarette shop at the top of the stairs said he practiced wushu and had come to check out the club after hearing about the controversy. He said that Mr. Xu had been right to pose his challenge, even though it had infuriated people.

“No one can avoid fighting,’’ said the man, who gave only his surname, Lian, and a social media username, Ruyi.

He said defenders of the traditional martial arts were incensed that Mr. Xu had dared to say that they staged impressive performances but were ineffective fighters and that, by doing so, he had threatened their livelihoods.

Yet Mr. Xu’s ultra-aggressive assault on his tai chi rival had missed an important point, Mr. Lian added.

“The key difference between what Mr. Xu does and martial arts is that martial arts isn’t a competitive sport,’’ he said. “It’s not about really hurting. It’s about giving your opponent ‘face.’ And Mr. Xu’s style is about beating your opponent to near death.”

Follow Didi Kirsten Tatlow on Twitter @dktatlow.

I think that was just posted on the previous page.

Indeed it was.

Massive balls
https://youtu.be/cQxxt0H8DJM

Firehawk4

05-10-2017, 05:55 PM

Does the Tai Chi guy think he is the guy Chow Yun Fat played in that movie about the founder of the Chin Woo .

GeneChing

05-11-2017, 08:40 AM

Tai chi v MMA: The 20-second fight that left China reeling (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-39853374)
11 May 2017

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/17C61/production/_95977379_xuxiaodong2.jpg
WEIBO/XU XIAODONG
The brief fight has kept Chinese social media talking for weeks

A Chinese entrepreneur is offering a reward of $1.45m to anyone who can defeat a top class fighter. It's the latest twist in the social media whirlwind surrounding one very brief but significant fight, as the BBC's Yashan Zhao explains.
Xu Xiaodong turned the Chinese martial arts community on its head two weeks ago with his highly controversial fight against Wei Lei, a master of the ancient art of tai chi.
The long-awaited showcase battle was intended to prove whether tai chi could really be a match for the modern, highly aggressive fighting discipline of Mixed Martial Arts (MMA).

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/91FA/production/_96007373_f1d2ce38-9ee1-4a16-9080-b71c80c9d5b8.jpg
WEIBO/XU XIAODONG
The fight was brief

When weeks of planning came to reality, at a venue in Chengdu, Mr Xu soundly beat Wei Lei. The fight lasted only 20 seconds - Mr Xu says he had bested his opponent within seven seconds.
Millions of people have since watched video footage of the competition, and it has triggered a huge discussion in China on whether traditional martial arts - or wushu - can ever truly be effective in combat.

Tai chi - not just for the elderly

Tai chi is now associated by many with older people, who use the series of movements to improve posture and release stress and anxiety. They can often be seen in Chinese public parks in the morning, slowly stretching out their arms.

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/185F5/production/_95992899_3ad41c8d-174e-445d-bf77-0048ccd138a3.jpg
EPA
Tai Chi is an internal Chinese martial art practiced for both its defense training and its health benefits.

But it has been part of Chinese martial arts culture since the 16th Century. Films and TV dramas have historically portrayed martial arts masters as great heroes in conflict, with almost supernatural strength.
The 2006 film Fearless, for example, told the story of Huo Yuanjia, whose reported victories in bouts against foreigners helped Chinese people re-build confidence and restore pride in colonial times.
China's martial arts novelist Louis Cha Leung-yung (pen name Jin Yong) also portrayed heroic martial art heroes who could march through battlefields alone and unarmed to defeat thousands of invaders.
But Mr Xu, who has studied traditional martial arts himself, claimed these stories were overblown, and that there was a lot of fraud and hypocrisy in martial arts industry.
He said his aim with the fight was to expose the fakes, and show that the old ways are no match for modern fighting methods.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/46B4/production/_95900181_xuxiaodong4.jpg
XU XIAODONG WEIBO
Xu Xiaodong said he wanted to expose fraud in the martial arts world

Some of his fans have been showing their support online. "I knew Chinese football industry was corrupt - now martial arts," said one.
But some have suggested Mr Xu has shamed Chinese martial arts culture.
Even billionaire Jack Ma, chairman of China's e-commerce giant Alibaba and a martial arts practitioner, spoke out in favour traditional form.
He said the point of martial arts was not so much the fighting as the philosophy and discipline behind it.

Cash for questions - and answers

Mr Xu has himself become an online celebrity and has been cashing in on his fame, making a fortune hosting Q&A session on microblogging site Weibo.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/0DAC/production/_95900530_3d74ab0b-40c8-434d-8934-5a9892e070f7.jpg
XU XIAODONG WEIBO
Xu Xiaodong makes a fortune on his Weibo account but it was blocked.

Viewers could pay him 1 RMB ($0.14; £0.11) to see his answers to questions like whether he thinks Wu Jing, a famed Chinese martial arts actor, has genuine battle skills.
From this question alone, Mr Xu made more than 7,500 RMB.
He has also been charging up to 18 RMB to ask him a question. On 3 May, he answered 19 questions.
But his money-making didn't last long, as his Weibo account, with more than 350,000 fans, was suddenly mysteriously blocked.
Mr Xu told BBC Chinese he doesn't know why.

Wake up martial arts dream

Supporters of traditional tai chi say one defeat doesn't mean much. And Mr Xu clearly agrees - he has challenged all of China's martial arts masters to a fight to further prove his point.
After China's martial arts association said this betrayed the ethics of the artform, a video appeared of Mr Xu apologising for being too arrogant. (He later refused to comment on the video in an interview with BBC Chinese.)
It might be a tempting offer though, because Xu Sheng, the multi-millionaire founder of drinks empire Tiandi No 1, has said on his Weibo account that is looking for martial arts heroes to volunteer to defeat Xu Xiaodong.
The winner of five bouts against him would take home a reward of 1.5 million yuan, he said, while even the loser could win 500,000 yuan.
Xu Sheng said he wanted to "wake the Chinese martial arts dream", and that he has been approached by many masters about the offer.
But there's no sign of another fight happening anytime soon - Xu Xiaodong has gone quiet, retreating to further study martial arts.
So it looks like the online battle between tai chi and MMA is not yet over.

Additional reporting by Jiangchuan Wu, BBC Chinese

Does the Tai Chi guy think he is the guy Chow Yun Fat played in that movie about the founder of the Chin Woo .
Funny you should mention Fearless (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=671) Firehawk, because this BBC article does too. Or maybe you weren't. Chow wasn't in Fearless. Which Huo Yanjia film are you talking about?

Firehawk4

05-11-2017, 10:27 AM

I was thinking the Tai chi guy might of thought he was Huo Yunjia in the movie Fearles the founder of the Chin Woo but you have to give the Tai Chi guy credit for getting in the ring with the Mixed Martial arts guy. The actor I was thinking of was Jet Li.

Lucas

05-14-2017, 03:16 AM

Am I the only one to spot the glowing cowardice presented by this not so open, open challenge. By not allowing sanda people to issue challenge, Xu is effectively, and knowingly, eliminating the chances of him being challenges by a traditional Chinese fighter that trains to fight.

Heads up to Xu, traditional Chinese fighters will ALSO be sanda guys more often than not. Sands is a platform traditionalists use to develop their skills.

Basically I see his challenge like this:

MMA fighter opens issue challenge to all non fighter sport artists. By specifically excluding traditional fighters he's creating his own odds.

I know this guy that just got out of prison last year. he served his years for deadly assault. Got in plenty of fights in prison and benches near 600. Hes a fewcking animal he has no pro record but he also makes xu look like a midget. If he takes some tai chi classes will xu fly him to China for a possible mauling? Or will he give another excuse to avoid people he fears may beat him?

Lucas

05-14-2017, 03:22 AM

YouKnowWho

05-14-2017, 11:31 AM

If he takes some tai chi classes will xu fly him to China for a possible mauling?

Xu only wants to challenge 100% Taiji guys. He did say that he respects Baji, WC, Tong Bei, XingYi, ... IMO, 100% Taiji guy and a Taiji guy with cross training are complete different.

The issue is, Can 100% Taiji guy without any cross training be able to fight? This is a very serious question.

Cataphract

05-14-2017, 12:42 PM

YouKnowWho

05-14-2017, 01:33 PM

Who gets to decide what is 100% TaiChi then? If you do the form alone probably not. If you take its contents and train against a resisting partner, why not? Kicking, punching, grappling and throwing is all present.

What kind of tools should be in a 100% Taiji guy's toolbox? Should roundhouse kick, single leg, ... be in that toolbox?

Cataphract

05-15-2017, 01:49 AM

Are we talking Yang, Wu, Chen...? I'd say TaiChi generally has more or less the northern KungFu toolbox at its disposal.

Single leg is simple. Needle at bottom of Sea.

TaiChi Yang form has a lot of kicks, including a high lotus kick, but it is made for grappling rather than kicking range. Weng wrote in Fundamentals of Shuai Chiao

Also, the controlling processes are identical in both in being geared towards disrupting the rival's balance for the winning factor. Generally speaking, the methods of borrowing the opponent's force to combine it with your own effort for a favorable result are adopted typically by both T'ai Chi Ch'uan and Shuai Chiao. Such resemblances in theory and practice reveal the close affinity between T'ai Chi Ch'uan and Shuai Chiao.

There is no roundhouse, but there is no roundhouse in any traditional Karate form either. I'd say roundhousing is permissible, but not really in line with TaiChi's core tactics.

TaiChi could work in MMA imo. But only if adapted to the MMA context like Lyoto Machida did for Shotokan.

Jimbo

05-15-2017, 06:38 AM

Am I the only one to spot the glowing cowardice presented by this not so open, open challenge. By not allowing sanda people to issue challenge, Xu is effectively, and knowingly, eliminating the chances of him being challenges by a traditional Chinese fighter that trains to fight.

Heads up to Xu, traditional Chinese fighters will ALSO be sanda guys more often than not. Sands is a platform traditionalists use to develop their skills.

Basically I see his challenge like this:

MMA fighter opens issue challenge to all non fighter sport artists. By specifically excluding traditional fighters he's creating his own odds.

Good point. Although I liked his interview, IMO, if Xu is as concerned with fraud in the fighting world in China as he says he is, he should have issued challenges to fighters in China whose foreign opponents were paid to throw fights, like Yi Long. He could either state he will not be bribed to lose, or quietly agree to lose and win instead (if he can). By pointing out such fraud and to say he is against it, but be unwilling to face it directly, is a bit telling. Of course, that would also have entailed bigger consequences than he's facing now.

I realize he said that his beef with the Taiji guy was personal, but in this day and age of social media, was he really naive enough to expect it would only remain between the two of them as individuals?

Jimbo

05-15-2017, 07:02 AM

What kind of tools should be in a 100% Taiji guy's toolbox? Should roundhouse kick, single leg, ... be in that toolbox?

I would imagine whatever tools in his art he can properly develop/train and incorporate into his fighting.

How many MA of today look 100% like they did even 100-200 years ago? Even many new, modern MA like TKD are taught differently than they were 40-50 years ago. Nowadays there are MANY MAists such as karateka, kung fu people, etc., who throw Muay Thai-style round kicks who might never have actually trained in MT itself.

I once saw a team of Wing Chun fighters in a competition who incorporated things like a side-facing stance, jabs, high roundhouse and hook kicks, etc., along with their WC handwork. AFAIK, those things are not considered WC, but they were making it work very well. They were effective with it. Many people might say that isn't WC. 'Should' they have incorporated those things? Since most of them were winning, I think the argument would be meaningless for them.

bawang

05-15-2017, 08:56 AM

I would imagine whatever tools in his art he can properly develop/train and incorporate into his fighting.

How many MA of today look 100% like they did even 100-200 years ago? Even many new, modern MA like TKD are taught differently than they were 40-50 years ago. Nowadays there are MANY MAists such as karateka, kung fu people, etc., who throw Muay Thai-style round kicks who might never have actually trained in MT itself.

I once saw a team of Wing Chun fighters in a competition who incorporated things like a side-facing stance, jabs, high roundhouse and hook kicks, etc., along with their WC handwork. AFAIK, those things are not considered WC, but they were making it work very well. They were effective with it. Many people might say that isn't WC. 'Should' they have incorporated those things? Since most of them were winning, I think the argument would be meaningless for them.

wing chun is made up by 2 guys on a boat, its fame outmatched its usefulness

the more orthodox a style is and the more realistic it is the more it resembles mma.

GeneChing

05-15-2017, 09:22 AM

It's like Spring Cleaning time. :rolleyes:

Farce of fury: Boxer KO's 'Wudang kung fu master' in 7 seconds flat (http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3162043)

Another video surfaces of a phony Chinese kung fu fighter getting beat down by a combat sport athlete

By Keoni Everington,Taiwan News, Staff Writer
2017/05/15 18:54

http://tnimage.taiwannews.com.tw/photos/shares/59197f7e220ad.jpg
Boxer decks "Wudang disciple" in 7 seconds. (Weibo image)

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) -- Another fake kung fu fighter met his match when he was knocked out by a boxer within seven seconds on May 4, a few days after the infamous match between an MMA gym owner and self-professed "tai chi master."

This time, another faux fighter, who claimed to be a disciple of the Wudang (武當) style of kung fu, is shown in a Weibo video being bounded to the turf like a rag doll in seven seconds by a boxer.

In the grainy video titled "Wudang kung fu master fights for traditional martial arts at a fight club, but doesn't last for seven seconds," a man is see wearing a black kung fu uniform with white boxing gloves, while a bare-chested boxer can be seen with bright green boxing gloves. Not to leave viewers disappointed, the boxer quickly goes to work and punches the pseudo kung fu "master" to a pulp.

The video is the latest in a series of videos showing purported "kung fu masters" taking on mixed martial artists and boxers. The previous being the clash between an MMA gym promoter Xu Xiao-dong (徐曉冬) and a massage therapist turned "tai chi master" Wei Lei (魏雷), which ended with the latter being punched into submission within ten seconds.

Nothing is yet known of the current kung fu fighter to be clobbered on video, but the Taoist Wudang monasteries, which housed famous sword fighters going back many centuries, were ransacked during the cultural revolution from 1966-1976 and the resident monks and martial artists were banished from the area.

After the cultural revolution, like most temples in China, the Wudang monasteries were converted into tourist attractions. Not much evidence exists of the return of the original practitioners of Wudang style after the cultural revolution.

Thus it is difficult to ascertain the validity of the martial arts lineage of a person claiming to represent Wudang style kung fu in modern day China. If he did in fact train at Wudang, it is a tangible sign of the deplorable state of this once fierce fighting system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFVVJmTwajw

continued next post

GeneChing

05-15-2017, 09:24 AM

Such style versus style videos provide little in the way of quantifiable data as to the effectiveness of a given fighting system since they are individual incidents. Below is a video showing an opposite outcome in which a Wing Chun kung fu fighter smashes a Muay Thai kick boxer into a mirror:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU8B6eNm2zs

That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About)
Wudang Kung Fu? (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?49599-Wudang-Kung-Fu)
Muay Thai Vs Wing Chun (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?65298-Muay-Thai-Vs-Wing-Chun)

GeneChing

05-15-2017, 09:38 AM

MMA Fighter Xiaodong Xu goes into Hiding after Beating Tai Chi Master Wei Lei in 10 Seconds (http://en.yibada.com/articles/200875/20170513/mma-fighter-xiaodong-xu-goes-into-hiding-after-beating-tai-chi-master-wei-lei-in-10-seconds.htm)
Vittorio Hernandez | May 13, 2017 12:58 AM EDT

http://images.en.yibada.com/data/thumbs/full/159375/685/0/0/0/mma-versus-tai-chi.jpg
MMA Versus Tai Chi (Photo : Julian Burns-Brenssell/YouTube)

In a match between a mixed martial arts expert and a Tai Chi master, who would win? The audience at a venue in Chengdu found out the result which had Chinese now questioning if Tai Chi really has a value when it comes to protecting a person.
The match had MMA fighter, coach and promoter Xiaodong Xu battle Lei Wei, the Tai Chi master, Daily Star reported. It was actually a fight between a traditional and modern form of martial arts which was won by Xiaodong Xu in 10 seconds.

10-Second Fight

At the start, the two men were waiting who would make the first move. The Tai Chi master shows a defense form imitating a crane, while the MMA fighter held his hand in a classic low boxing style. When the two sparred, Xiaodong Xu unleashed multiple punches that caught Lei Wei off guard as he fell on the floor receiving punches. The referee ended the fight in 10 seconds.
The video of the match become viral with more than 900,000 hits in one week. Following his victory, Xiaodong Xu mocked out forms of Chinese martial arts. Among those who responded to his dare are Kung Fu masters. He further mocked them on Sina Weibo by claiming he would win even if two or three Kung Fu fighters would spar with him.
His claims angered the Chinese Wushu Association which issued a statement on its website that said the fight between Xiaodong Xu and Lei Wei “violated the morals of martial arts.” As a result, Chinese are now doubting the use of other forms of traditional martial arts.
Exposing Fraudulence
However, the MMA fighter who said he fought Lei Wei to fight fraudulence, has become the target. After he went into hiding, Xiaodong Xu said he lost everything, including his career.
Since the 16th century, Tai Chi has been part of Chinese martial arts culture in which movies and TV dramas made martial artists great heroes in conflict due to their supernatural strength, BBC reported. It is this portrayal of Chinese martial arts – which Xiaodong Xu also studied – that the MMA fighter wanted to expose as full of fraud and hypocrisy that made him fight and beat Tai Chi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6RrxTBdJs4

"Ya running and ya running
And ya running away.
Ya running and ya running,
But ya can't run away from yourself" ~Marley :cool:

Jimbo

05-15-2017, 03:12 PM

It's like Spring Cleaning time. :rolleyes:

continued next post

Looks like there's finally a new trend out of Asia now to fill the void left by Gangnam Style... "Beat That (KF) Style."

RisingCrane

05-17-2017, 07:48 AM

the more orthodox a style is and the more realistic it is the more it resembles mma.

This is the truth.

GeneChing

05-17-2017, 09:00 AM

Looks like there's finally a new trend out of Asia now to fill the void left by Gangnam Style... "Beat That (KF) Style." More like beat that dumb ass 'master' who can't see when he's totally outgunned.

Maybe a challenger will walk into KFTC25 AF (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69762-KUNG-FU-TAI-CHI-25TH-ANNIVERSARY-FESTIVAL-May-19-21-2017-San-Jose-CA). That would make my weekend. :cool:

sanjuro_ronin

05-17-2017, 09:40 AM

wing chun is made up by 2 guys on a boat, its fame outmatched its usefulness

the more orthodox a style is and the more realistic it is the more it resembles mma.

Indeed, gross motor skills and basics always override everything else in the stress of combat.
The only way one can use "fine motor" skills or specialized techniques is when, and ONLY WHEN. they are actually trained in combat AND, preferably, against other systems.
That is why a Thai boxer (basics and gross motor) do well against almost every other strikers ( typically) and WC guys ( highly specialized skill set) do well against other WC guys ( typically).

Cataphract

05-17-2017, 11:16 AM

I would draw the line between systems that train full contact and those that don't.

GeneChing

05-23-2017, 09:00 AM

Sometimes I read articles like this and all I can think is that the author needs a good kick to the head. This isn't what zen is about. So overthinking it.

That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About&p=1303044#post1303044) meets Shaolin Monks and fighting ? (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?44999-Shaolin-Monks-and-fighting)

The MMA fighter who beat up a tai-chi master didn’t win the fight (https://qz.com/986399/the-mma-fighter-who-beat-up-a-tai-chi-master-didnt-win-the-fight/)
https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/magicmonks.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=3200
Fight stylishly. (Reuters/Petr Josek)

WRITTEN BY Ephrat Livni
OBSESSION Life as Laboratory
May 20, 2017

The fighting monks of Shaolin Monastery in the Pagoda Forest on Song Mountain in China are globally adored. They’re real but have been made mythical in countless martial-arts movies and the Wu Tang Clan’s hip-hop.
Now, their ancient arts are allegedly threatened by the new. The Shaolin fighting tradition, specifically tai-chi, just lost big time against mixed martial arts, or MMA, in a brisk showdown in China, a battle that was offensive to the government and others. The quick pummeling violated traditional codes of conduct, and the winner, Xu Xiaodong, has gone into hiding, so grave is the situation.

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/screen-shot-2017-05-17-at-9-17-24-pm.png
This mind is the buddha. (el)
The loss ostensibly also calls into question the relevance of the ancient art of the loser, Wei Lei, practitioner of the “thunder style” of tai chi.
Any such claim may be shortsighted–with all due respect to the fast, loose, and furious MMA fighting style. After all, MMA is new. Shaolin’s Zen monks have been practicing for 1,500 years.
Here’s a condensed look at the philosophy behind the fighting:

Classic is as classic does

Kung-fu flicks glorify battles and Shaolin monks are the only clerics in the world with street cred and pop-icon status. They’re unparalleled fighters, who perform amazing bodily feats, acrobatics that seem like magic.

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/screen-shot-2017-05-17-at-8-10-22-pm.png
Legendary Zen master or myth? (el)

Yet all this action is fueled by a practice obsessed with stillness, Zen Buddhism.
The Shaolin tradition isn’t about throwing punches. It is a way of seeing the world and being in it, cultivating inner and outer strength.

Pointing at the moon

If you think winning is the whole game, you lose. In Zen terms—that would be like mistaking the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself (giving yourself the finger, as it were).

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/screen-shot-2017-05-17-at-8-30-19-pm.png
Centuries of simplicity. (el)

This or that, good and bad, gain and loss, all are fine. Illumination is available to anyone in everyday life. It can come as soon as attachment and distinctions are shed, according to Zen tradition.
Shedding can happen spontaneously or be cultivated with practice—or through both, by doing simple things, seeing clearly and operating beyond the limits of the visible world.
That’s what the fighting monks of Shaolin work on from childhood, and what’s so admirable about them. Discipline. More than their fighting skills, it’s their will to excel through sustained effort, as ultimately evidenced by exceptional abilities.

Granddaddy of all masters

Boddhidharma is the Zen patriarch of the Shaolin monks, credited with creating kung fu, the martial art that spans a whole slew of fighting forms known as “wushu.” In his view, all experience is good practice, fertile ground for illumination.

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/finalshaolin-1.jpg
A collage of fact and fiction. (el/Internet Archive)

According to legend, Boddhidharma brought his action-oriented, cryptic, rigorous Buddhism to China from India around 500 AD. He emphasized looking at nature for guidance—cranes, tigers, monkeys, bamboo, the moon and stars and weather. Boddhidharma’s Zen style didn’t take off for two centuries, according to scholars. But it remained fresh and lively.
Rather than meditate on a cushion, he advised activity. Kung fu and tai chi are moving meditation practices, and Boddhidharma is revered by martial artists. He’s arguably the most famous monk ever, mythologized in international culture.
Or he’s a fiction. Some scholars say Boddhidharma may not have existed at all.

For all the tea in China

More lore about the master: Boddhidharma is said also to have brought tea to China. He was so dedicated to Zen that he cut off his eyelids to stay awake during meditation and tea bushes grew where his eyelids fell, creating a national craze. So the story goes.

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/mainboddhidharma.jpg?quality=80
If you think it’s about winning, you lose. (el)

The tale may be a bit creepy but it’s also instructive. It lauds intensity, unyielding steadiness, determination in the face of boring but important things, like sitting. That’s what’s so sexy about Zen.
The Shaolin allure comes from this quiet intensity, which distracted humans can’t help but admire. Who wouldn’t want to move so smoothly as to fly, win a fight moving the wind, having trained on waterfalls?
The recent trouncing of tai chi doesn’t matter. As any Zen student knows, appearances are deceiving. The real skill of the master isn’t fighting or winning. That’s not what Boddhidharma taught. If he taught anything at all, it’s resilience, resolve, reserve.

He wrote a practice guide that lays out two basic paths to mastery of the self. It’s called Outline of Practice, a short four-page primer for Zen students. It begins like this:

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/screen-shot-2017-05-18-at-12-04-06-am.png

The final blow

The fight that has sparked such controversy in China doesn’t reflect the spirit of the ancient Shaolin temple and Boddhidharma, whether he was real or mythical. It isn’t Zen’s death knell by any stretch of the imagination. Zen’s about internal and external awareness, cultivating them until they’re one. That’s a classic skill, always useful, never goes out of style.

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/shaolinquilt-2.jpg
It’s all in your mind not minding. (el)

Masters practice to practice and fight if they have to. Winning is neither here nor there, and shouldn’t excite or dismay. That is what practice teaches, that admiration and admonition are equally problematic or awesome when we make them so. As a result of regular efforts, a student may sometimes win, and sometimes lose too. But a buddha manages anything.

Winning and losing are illusions. The path is neutral. Mind makes things good or bad until we don’t mind. That’s the Zen treasure, a key to freedom that can’t be lost in a fight.

GeneChing

05-24-2017, 07:39 AM

Who says 'Tai Chi can't fight?' Read Tai Chi’s Nick Osipczak Answers Xu Xiaodong’s Defeat of Wei Lei (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1361) by Andrew Judge

Frost

05-25-2017, 08:24 AM

Who says 'Tai Chi can't fight?' Read Tai Chi’s Nick Osipczak Answers Xu Xiaodong’s Defeat of Wei Lei (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1361) by Andrew Judge

Nick was a ufc fighter way before he every took up tai chi, claiming him as a tai chi fighter is like claiming max Chen as one

GeneChing

05-25-2017, 01:19 PM

One of our former contributors offered this translation on his website:

Shaolin Monk Shi Yan Jue Formally Challenges Xu Xiaodong (of MMA) (http://www.chandao.co.uk/shaolin-monk-shi-yan-jue-formally-challenges-xu-xiaodong-of-mma.html)
Original Chinese Language Article By: http://news.china.com
(Translated by Adrian Chan-Wyles PhD)

http://www.chandao.co.uk/uploads/9/4/8/2/9482304/published/192be850-be55-4939-8f53-aa8357a93d72.jpg?1495650544
Shi Yan Jue (释延觉) - Shaolin Monk Ordination Certificate No: 018 (13.11.1996)
On the 3rd, May, 2017, (at 9pm in the evening), Shaolin monk – Shi Yan Jue (释延觉) – formally issued a ‘challenge’ on behalf of the Shaolin Temple - toward MMA-fighter Xu Xiaodong, on the grounds of his continuous and repeated ignorant and disrespectful behaviour toward traditional Chinese martial arts, with particular attention being drawn to the events surrounding the 20 second video uploaded onto the net by Xu (in late April) – purportedly showing a Taijiquan master being tripped over and repeatedly punch about the head (by Xu – who later claimed that through his actions, he had defeated ‘all’ traditional Chinese martial arts). Shi Yan Jue holds the position of ‘First Rank Dharma Protector’ (第一护法 – Di Er Hu Fa), and conveyed the challenge via the internet:

‘You dare to claim that you have challenged (and defeated) ALL traditional Chinese martial arts? You dare to claim that ALL traditional Chinese martial arts practitioners are liars? On what grounds do you make these claims? Mr Xu (徐), it is obvious that your attitudes and opinions are very naïve in the extreme, and are the product of a confused and disturbed mind. As this is the case, your inner turmoil interprets all things around you through a sense of despair, and your so-called ‘MMA’ technique has instilled in you the ability to despise all things. Despite your claims, you do not understand ‘real’ fighting, or the ‘true’ nature of traditional Chinese martial arts. MMA stresses an artificial fight limited by a set of contrived rules – whereas traditional Chinese martial arts are built upon a historical foundation of ‘fighting to the death’ – with no contrived rules being in operation. As this is the case, young Chinese people in China should be respectful of traditional Chinese martial arts, and hold their teachings with a sense of awe.

As Mr Xu appears to carry-out much of his fighting with his mouth – I would consider it the most honoured of sacred duties to ‘correct’ this young man’s attitude, and ‘educate’ him during a martial contest. As I am disinterested in rules – Mr Xu may decide on what grounds this context should be fought – either with or without rules. If I should possess the good fortune to prevail, then I request the Mr Xu permanently retires from public view (making no further statements) after first apologising for his disrespectful behaviour, and confirming his respect for the efficacy of traditional Chinese martial arts. As Mr Xu is motivated by money, if I lost, then half any money raised by others on my behalf would be donated to charity (with the other half given to Mr Xu). Listen to and respect this ‘challenge’, issued by the 34th Generation Shaolin Monk and ‘First Rank Dharma Protector of the Shaolin Temple (at Henan).’

Shi Yan Jue (释延觉)

(要挑战整个武林？传统武术全是骗子？这样的言论还是说明徐先生太幼稚了，藐视一切不太好，你也是mma选手，想你也清楚什么是真正的格斗，不是那几拳几脚的竞技，真正的无限制规则是要死人的，年轻人对中国武术应该心存敬畏之心。看到徐先生的嘴和拳头都挺硬的，想和徐先生较量一下，规则自选，公开平台，我赢了，徐先生承诺以后退出武术圈，不从事任何武术相关工作，不发表任何武术相关言论，百万奖金一半捐助。我输了，随你要求。少林寺第一护法，三十四代武僧——释延觉。)

That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About&p=1303044#post1303044) meets Shaolin Monks and fighting ? (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?44999-Shaolin-Monks-and-fighting)

GeneChing

06-27-2017, 07:51 AM

Mixed martial arts vs tai chi group brawl stopped by police in Shanghai but battle rages on online (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2100144/mixed-martial-arts-vs-tai-chi-group-war-stopped-police-shanghai)
Planned event likely sought to end the argument between supporters of the two combat styles, which has been bubbling over since MMA fighter defeated tai chi master in April
PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 27 June, 2017, 2:40pm
UPDATED : Tuesday, 27 June, 2017, 2:49pm

https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980w/public/images/methode/2017/06/27/7d5ba8cc-5af0-11e7-98d7-232f56a99798_1280x720_144947.JPG

Sarah Zheng
http://twitter.com/_szheng
sarah.zheng@scmp.com

Police in Shanghai on Monday closed down an unlicensed fight between two teams – one led by a tai chi master and the other by a leading mixed martial artist – just weeks after footage of a similar, very bloody, contest went viral online.

https://cdn3.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/06/27/7c976a66-5af0-11e7-98d7-232f56a99798_1320x770_144947.JPG

The event, dubbed a “group brawl”, was set to pitch four MMA fighters, led by Xu Xiaodong, against four tai chi experts led by Ma Baoguo, Guangzhou Daily reported.
The planned fight came just weeks after Xu, a fighter and promoter of mixed martial arts, doled out a severe beating to another tai chi master, Wei Lei, in a bout that lasted just 10 seconds. Many commentators described the fight as a clear victory for modern combat techniques over traditional styles.
Monday’s bout, however, failed to get underway after police raided the venue, the report said.
Footage of the incident posted on YouTube shows the would-be combatants preparing for the bout in front of a crowd of spectators, before the lights go out and police come in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Mv6nn_HP8
continued next post

GeneChing

06-27-2017, 07:52 AM

Officers are then seen talking to Xu who can be heard saying: “I will certainly cooperate, but don’t push me. You won’t be able to push me!”
He is later seen being escorted from the premises.
In late April, Xu – known as “Mad Dog” for his intense fighting style – scored a convincing victory over Wei, after making controversial remarks about tai chi in which he said he wanted to “expose” its lack of merit.
“[I] crack down on fake things, because they are fake. Fake things must be eliminated. No question,” he was quoted as saying by state-owned tabloid Global Times after his win.
Wei was once featured in a Chinese Central Television documentary as “one of the greatest tai chi masters in China”.
Xu’s crushing victory in their head-to-head contest led to a passionate debate online about the relative merits of the two martial art forms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN5GPZvjIVw

Many people suggested that Wei’s defeat showed that traditional martial arts had been found wanting in a real combat situation.
Supporters of the centuries-old art form, however, pointed to its place in Chinese history and culture. Others, of a more patriotic bent, seemed outraged that MMA, a form of combat championed in the West, could be considered superior to a traditional Chinese martial art.
The Chinese Martial Arts Association said in a statement in May that the initial match had been illegal, and had “violated the morals of martial arts”.
“Wushu is a traditional Chinese exercise activity, an excellent part of traditional culture, with merits for physical fitness, self-defence and health cultivation,” the statement said.
Other martial arts experts, including tai chi masters Lu Xing and Wang Zhanhai, rushed to challenge Xu to provide “fresh perspective on marital arts”, Lu was quoted as saying to local media.
Meanwhile, Chinese tycoon Chen Sheng, founder of the Tiandi No. 1 drinks company, even offered to raise the stakes by putting 10 million yuan (US$1.5 million) into the mix to “defend the dignity” of traditional martial artists.
Xu’s microblogging account was deactivated after the national attention, but internet users excitedly referenced the latest incident with the police as his “resurrection” after months of silence. They also complained about the apparent deletion of messages relating to the planned Shanghai bout.
“Blocked again! This is regional politics!” one person wrote.
“[Xu] can defeat all of the ‘fakeness’ across the lakes and rivers, but he cannot defeat the government!”

Xu is still working it.

Syn7

07-18-2017, 07:32 PM

This thread is awesome. I had no idea the Chinese government was getting involved. You guys think it's a sincere defense of the culture, or just trying to stop a bunch of oversensitive halfwitts from beating the **** out of each other?

David Jamieson

07-20-2017, 09:25 AM

GeneChing

07-20-2017, 10:07 AM

What with the recent kerfuffle over That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About) and the following news piece, I'm tty-ing this old Challenge Match (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?22717-Challenge-Match) thread and hijacking it to raise the question - Should challenge matches be permitted in civilized societies?

Legally the answer is no, obviously. A civilized society is marked by it's litigenous nature, so it wouldn't be prudent grant 'official permission' in such cases. But from a martial perspective, I'm all for testing skills against each other and punching fakes in the nose.

Domestic kung fu school banned from fight with Canadian (https://www.vietnambreakingnews.com/2017/07/domestic-kung-fu-school-banned-from-fight-with-canadian/)
JULY 20, 2017

The Vietnamese Traditional Martial Arts Association has banned the Nam Huynh Dao Kung Fu School from participating in any competition with the martial artist Pierre Francois Flores without official permission.

Domestic kung fu school banned from fight with Canadian, Sports news, football, Vietnam sports, vietnamnet bridge, english news, Vietnam news, news Vietnam, vietnamnet news, Vietnam net news, Vietnam latest news, vn news, Vietnam breaking news

http://img.cdn2.vietnamnet.vn/Images/english/2017/07/20/11/20170720114735-1.jpg
Huynh Tuan Kiet and Pierre Francois Flores (left to right)

Pierre Francois Flores is a student of martial artist Nam Anh, head of Wing Chun Nam Anh Kung Fu School in Canada. He had accused Huynh Tuan Kiet, head of Nam Huynh Dao Kung Fu School, of faking his ‘electricity channelling’ technique and challenged him. However, Kiet didn’t respond.

Huynh Quoc Hung, Kiet’s brother, said that Kiet wouldn’t engage in a street fight with Flores. Hung said Nam Huynh Dao was a reputable school and recognised by the government so they wouldn’t participate in illegal fighting.

He said. “We don’t view Flores as an enemy and we are willing to make friends with him. Kiet will meet him under three conditions. First is he must be introduced by Canadian agencies and the head of his school. Second is the fight must have permission by Vietnamese authorities and finally, he should arrive with the proper attitude of a martial artist and not be provocative.”

Hoang Vinh Giang, chairman of Vietnamese Traditional Martial Arts Association said they had banned Nam Huynh Dao Kung Fu School from fighting with Flores. Giang said since Nam Huynh Dao was a member of the association, the fight is the association’s problem.

“If anything unfortunate happens, it may affect the relationship between Vietnam and Canada,” he said. “In fact, we don’t have the authorisation to issue the permit and don’t condone the fight. What with this kind of fighting that has no protective outfit and insurance? At least there must be some rules about weight class or age.”

Giang said the fight had no motive outside of attracting curious internet viewers.

Last week, Flores had knocked out karate artist Doan Bao Chau in a friendly match that doesn’t have official permission. Many viewers commented that they physical difference was too huge as Flores weighed 91kg and was 180cm tall, while Chau weighed 62kg at 161cm tall

The Department of Public Sport still has no idea how to deal with the duel of such nature.

GeneChing

09-07-2017, 10:55 AM

But the challenges go on...

Cung Le Responds To Flores (https://www.cungleofficial.com/single-post/Cung-Le-Responds-To-Flores)
July 22, 2017

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3152cb_c4fdffdc281c4676bec6ca57c50ff4b8~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_413,h_277,al_c,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/3152cb_c4fdffdc281c4676bec6ca57c50ff4b8~mv2.png

On July 21st the challenge pictured below was posted via Facebook. The details of this disagreement are confusing and has taken place over the past couple weeks. Online sources are reporting Mr. Flores has fought various masters and now has challenged Cung Le for perceived insults that never occurred.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3152cb_3686fa584c114426b61530be4f4545b6~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_413,h_608,al_c,lg_1,q_80/3152cb_3686fa584c114426b61530be4f4545b6~mv2.jpg

We are confused why Mr Flores has not reached out to us directly, if he would like to he can by clicking HERE or visiting our contact form. Since this has gone viral across all social media, blogs and YouTube we have decided to address it. Additionally you can see the Facebook live video where Cung addresses Francois Flores in English and Vietnamese in detail at around 20 minutes into the video. You will also spend 30 minutes behind the scenes of the movie "Europe Raiders" starring Cung Le, Jeeja Yanin and other great actors. Cung Le's Statement Below.

"To my Fans and Fellow Martial Artists:
Recently, it has come to a point where I wish to clarify any confusion in the media regarding myself and a Mr. Flores who has touted that I have “challenged” him. In fact, I do not know Mr. Flores or the Master Kiet he appears to be fascinated with. Therefore, I cannot comment on their disagreement or the legitimacy of their Martial Arts techniques or systems. I did however state in several different ways that Mr. Flores is using the platform of Martial Arts to bully. Period. I disagree with his tactics, disrespect, assumptions and blatant disregard of the Principles of Martial Arts. Martial Arts is a lifestyle comprised of aggressive, violent and sometimes lethal techniques. The flip side is using your intelligence to qualify the restraint, respect and use of those hard earned skills. Everyday I try to empty my cup and evolve into a more well rounded Martial Artist. No one is above defeat in a fight … but defeat does not mean failure … it is what you do with that lesson. I have always said “I win like a champion and I lose like a champion.”
To the valuable and impressionable young martial artists in our community, be respectful but constantly evolve. Ultimately, you are your own Master … and never forget to Honor those who have helped pave the road you are on. If you believe something can be taught better, then teach it to your fellow Martial Artists. Stay hungry for more but humble.
I would like to thank all my Fans! I love you and appreciate all your support. I will continue to grow in my own Martial Art’s walk and hope my evolution helps yours."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiOrrkmSuXc

Cung Le (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?52645-Couple-articles-about-Cung) on Pierre Francois Flores (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About&p=1303997#post1303997) and Europe Raiders (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70455-Europe-Raiders)

GeneChing

11-10-2017, 10:32 AM

Nobody is kung fu fighting: Chinese martial artists ordered to stop organising their own bouts (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2119375/nobody-kung-fu-fighting-chinese-martial-artists-ordered-stop)
Sports authority issues series of orders to kung fu practitioners after tai chi master’s crushing defeat at hands of mixed martial arts fighter
PUBLISHED : Friday, 10 November, 2017, 11:00pm
UPDATED : Saturday, 11 November, 2017, 12:01am
Mandy Zuo
mandy.zuo@scmp.com

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980x551/public/images/methode/2017/11/10/e88838a0-c606-11e7-9f00-d8b0ccf89a9f_1280x720_221350.jpg

China’s top sporting authority has banned kung fu practitioners from organising unauthorised fights, calling themselves “grandmasters” and creating their own styles.
The directive, issued by the General Administration of Sport on Thursday, bans a total of eight practices and follows an intense debate across the country prompted by the humiliating defeat of a tai chi master by a mixed martial artist in April.
Many questioned the merits of traditional martial arts after the fight, in which the founder of “thunder style” tai chi was defeated within 10 seconds by the MMA fighter.
In the directive, which aims to tighten regulations on martial arts-related activities, the General Administration of Sport said practitioners should “build correct values about martial arts”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbhFdjiPe6w

Among the top sins they should avoid were “creating one’s own style, organising a fight without a permit from the authorities, malicious attacks, slandering or discriminating against others”, according to the document.
Claiming to be the “authentic” successor of a particular art was also on the banned list, because the administrators said the practice was misleading the public.
The directive further warned against moneymaking activities such as accepting apprentices, making inappropriate remarks, creating and spreading rumours, as well as fabricating certificates for athletes, coaches and judges.
The government’s intervention in fights between martial artists, a traditionally private activity, raised eyebrows on social media.
“Creating one’s own style of martial art [is banned]? Weren’t all the existing styles created by people? Organising private fights [is also banned]?
“Isn’t competing and finding out their strengths and weaknesses what martial artists should do?” one user commented on the social media platform Weibo.
“It’s just afraid that more kung fu masters will be defeated, isn’t it?” Wang Xu, an online commentator in Beijing, wrote on the microblogging platform.
The defeat of Wei Lei, a tai chi master, at the hands of Xu Xiaodong, an MMA fighter, in April had followed a war of words over which of the two arts was stronger.
Xu, who is known for his provocative comments, had described traditional martial arts as a “farce”.
Wei, who was described by state media as one of China’s greatest tai chi masters, said he wanted to take the fight because Xu had insulted tai chi and “cursed at the ancestors”.

'cursed at the ancestors'? srsly? :rolleyes:

Continued next post

GeneChing

11-10-2017, 10:33 AM

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2017/11/10/5a8e6ef4-c604-11e7-9f00-d8b0ccf89a9f_1320x770_221350.JPG
April’s fight between Wei Lei, left, and Xu Xiaodong ended swiftly. Photo: SCMP

Xu’s comprehensive and swift victory in front of a large crowd in the western city of Chengu only served to pour fuel on the fire.
His microblogging account was deactivated in light of the attention he had attracted and a new account that appeared to be his was also later blocked, the Beijing Times reported.
Xu arranged a contest with another tai chi master Ma Baoguo in Shanghai in June after tai chi supporters demanded a rematch, but the fight was halted by police,
Xu later claimed that the officers had been tipped off by a relative of Ma’s in an attempt to sabotage the bout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Mv6nn_HP8

Gong Maofu, associate professor from the martial arts school of the Chengdu Sport Institute, said the directive was apparently motivated by a desire to create a better environment but whether it would be truly implemented remained a question as this was only an administrative order.
“It’s very difficult to carry out [these bans]. There’s no legal clause for reference if there’s another fight like that. It’s still unclear who is to supervise this and impose the punishment,” Gong said.
He added that it was meaningless to conclude that Chinese kung fu was weaker than Western martial arts because of a contest between two individuals.
“The result of a fight depends on several factors – who is fighting, how they are fighting, and when,” he said, echoing many internet users’ opinion that Wei was too weak to represent Chinese kung fu.

It was one dumb fight that went viral. Lawd. Moving on...

Frost

11-11-2017, 12:42 PM

It was one dumb fight that went viral. Lawd. Moving on...

Come on the Chinese government is papping itself incase it loses some of its case cow money when people start to ask if Kung Fu is actually useful :D

bawang

11-14-2017, 11:17 AM

This fight shook heaven and earth

David Jamieson

11-15-2017, 07:49 AM

I'll just keep training for the sake of it...

yeesh.

GeneChing

03-19-2018, 07:45 AM

Faruq

03-20-2018, 07:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoXIDxsfD5c

He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack.

Thread: That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About)
Thread: Why does MMA target WC? (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?61467-Why-does-MMA-target-WC)

Ha ha. What is this "Wing Chun" guy's fighting record and who's his teacher? The only thing Wing Chun about him is his on guard stance ha ha. Why do these guys with no fights always decide to go up against experienced fighters? Are there any more Wing Chun guys out there with the experience of a Gary Lam? I just don't get it.

wiz cool c

03-20-2018, 07:35 PM

Wasting too much time with the formalities and not enough with the sweat. It is everywhere in TMA. IMO it all boils down to preferred ways of conditioning. Whether you like the modern sport ways like lifting a dumbbell or the traditional ways like swinging a heavy guan dao. Either way you should have a firm understanding of reality. This is 2018, in china they keep them stupid believe me. They block out the world and don't progress up to speed with the rest of the world. If you spend half your time working on things like eye pokes ,groin kicks and weapons, how will you compete in a match where your opponent practices exactly what will be used in the match 100% of the time? Common sense doesn't apply here half the time.

GeneChing

08-06-2018, 07:42 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpQpNEGDmyE

googtrans: "The head is blooming, Xu Xiaodong is beaten!"

Read more on Kung Fu Web on facebook (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155747511340003&id=194819810002) (you'll need an fb account to view this - it's copy-blocked)

B.Tunks

08-06-2018, 04:14 PM

It was just sparring. He's filming a series and did a few rounds at Dadongxiang Club in Zhengzhou against much younger and more skilful fighters. Bound to happen.

https://www.setn.com/News.aspx?NewsID=413145

GeneChing

09-05-2018, 09:51 AM

Chinese MMA promotion Chin Woo Men under investigation for financial crimes (https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/9/3/17814202/chinese-mma-promotion-chin-woo-men-under-investigation-for-financial-crimes-asian-mma-china-news)
The rising MMA promotion’s parent company is accused by Chinese regulators of ‘illegally absorbing public deposits’.
By Tim Bissell @timothybissell Sep 3, 2018, 7:30pm EDT

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/OZ4AXzBqLcHqD3EuqplMLfH2OlU=/0x0:5142x3428/920x613/filters:focal(2039x557:2861x1379):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/61123659/867368702.jpg.0.jpg
Guangzhou, China, home of Chin Woo Men’s parent company Guangzhou Elephant Health Technology Co. Photo by VCG/VCG via Getty Images

Chin Woo Men (sometimes referred to as Jing Wu Men) is a popular Chinese MMA promotion based in Guangzhou, Guangdong Province. Since late 2016 CWM has hosted nine events in China, mostly in Guangdong, but also in Henan Province. CWM’s most recent card, in July 2018, included four fights with veterans from organizations such as Jungle Fight and Road FC.

Lee Li of AsiaMMA.com writes that since being founded in 2016 CWM has received a lot of recognition in China, which is currently witnessing an uneasy boom in mixed martial arts. The sport has dramatically grown in popularity over recent years, but is yet to receive serious mainstream attention or any kind of endorsement from China’s government.

In light of that uneasy relationship, AsiaMMA reported last week that Chinese MMA – and specifically CWM – has suffered a serious hit to their reputation. The Guangzhou Municipal Public Safety Bureau has opened an investigation into CWM’s parent company Guangzhou Elephant Health Technology Co. (GEHTC).

Along with operating CWM, GEHTC owns Health Mall – a sports e-commerce platform that provides software to sports coaches and manages sports event intellectual property (per China Money Network).

GETHC’s CEO Yang Huali has been arrested along with nine other executives from the company after accusations of “illegally absorbing public deposits.” AsiaMMA describes those charges as:

...companies “engaged in financial credit business not approved by The People’s Bank of China; illegally absorbing public deposits for the purpose to lend the funds for profit; or a legally established financial institution raising or lowering the interest rate of deposits in violation of commercial bank law and relevant laws and regulations in absorbing deposits”.

Chinese outlet EcoSports states that individuals from the sports and sports education industry who invested tens of billions of yuan in GEHTC have formed WeChat groups where they accuse the company of defrauding them.

AsiaMMA’s Li opined that the scandal may have repercussions for MMA in China, writing: “The incidence of alleged mishandled financing will likely increase the scrutiny under which the sport further develops.” This incident, which may have seen hundreds of individuals lose money to an MMA promoter, is not the first scandal that has threatened MMA’s shot at widespread appeal in China.

Last year Chengdu’s En Bo Fight Club made international news when the club’s mysterious owner En Bo went public on his claims that he has ‘adopted’ hundreds of orphans and trained them to be fighters. Former TUF contestant Jeremy May was one of En Bo’s instructors, he spoke to Bloody Elbow about his experience training orphans last year. The local government stated that En Bo’s adoptions were illegal and removed a number of children from the gym so they could attend public schools.

Also marring MMA’s reputation are the controversial activities of Beijing based MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong. Xu, aka ‘Mad Dog’, has gone viral over the past year by beating up Wing Chun and Tai Chi masters, much to the chagrin of traditional Chinese martial arts enthusiasts (and maybe the government).

THREADS:
Busted MMA fighters and fights (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?52219-Busted-MMA-fighters-and-fights)
That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About)
JingWu & Ching Wu... (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?6681-JingWu-amp-Ching-Wu)

GeneChing

11-09-2018, 10:15 AM

Meet the Chinese MMA Fighter Taking on the Grandmasters of Kung Fu (http://www.time.com/5448811/mma-kung-fu-xu-xiaodong/)
By CHARLIE CAMPBELL/BEIJING November 8, 2018

Fighters aren’t usually the blushing type. But Xu Xiaodong can’t hide his embarrassment when asked about his latest battle scar, a three-inch crimson railroad track that snakes over his right eyebrow. It was caused, he says, by an overzealous opponent’s knee at a recent training session, during which Xu grappled with four younger mixed-martial-arts (MMA) fighters in quick succession. “I was tired by the end and bam!” Xu tells TIME in his Beijing gym. “Twenty-six stitches!”

It’s by far the most obvious of the 40-year-old’s war wounds, eclipsing even cauliflower ears and a catalog of creaking bones. But it’s nowhere near the deepest. Xu has spent a lifetime fighting, first at school and later channeling a red-hot adolescent temper into competitive MMA. But the fiercest blows he suffered were far from the ring, when he took on practitioners of traditional Chinese martial arts, known officially as wushu but more colloquially as simply kung fu.

The dispute started with an argument on social media. Xu wanted Wei Lei, a kung fu master in the discipline of tai chi, to account for the outlandish powers he claimed to possess. Wei boasted of using an invisible force field to keep a dove on his hand, and pulverizing a watermelon’s innards without damaging its skin. The idea that masters of kung fu achieve mystical skills is widely accepted in China; Wei is just one of many making such claims. Xu believes this “fake kung fu” sullies true martial arts. The online quarrel escalated, and before long Xu and Wei were facing off in a basement in the central Chinese city of Chengdu for a bare-knuckle match. Xu says he only wanted to open people’s eyes, but the bout was billed as East vs. West, the master of a hallowed tradition vs. an alien upstart.

In the video of the April 27, 2017, bout that later went viral on social media, Xu takes a standard MMA striking pose. Wei shuffles to and fro with both arms raised like a praying mantis. After sizing each other up for a few seconds, Xu advances, furiously hurling punches at Wei’s head. The tai chi master instantly tumbles onto the checkerboard matting. Xu leaps forward and rains down blows on his opponent until the referee stops the fight. Victory had taken 20 seconds.

The bout left Xu with barely a scratch but a life in tatters. The video quickly became a viral sensation on China’s social-media platforms. Online trolls accused Xu of humiliating traditional Chinese culture, and he found he was banned from social media. The Chinese Wushu Association condemned the “suspected illegal actions that violate the morals of martial arts.” He and his family received death threats.

Many wanted a rematch. One aggrieved Chinese entrepreneur offered $1.45 million to any fighter who could defeat Xu. Other tai chi practitioners began challenging Xu both online and in person, setting up camp outside the MMA gym in Beijing that he manages. Some brazenly wandered in to pick fights.

Xu insists his aim was not to disparage Chinese martial arts, but to show that what is often sold as a powerful fighting skill is useless in actual close combat situations. But his efforts were framed by his critics as placing the Western culture of MMA above cherished Eastern traditions–a perfidious sin in an increasingly nationalist China. President Xi Jinping has made reviving traditional Chinese culture a signature policy, deploying kung fu to boost the nation’s “soft power” overseas. Now, here was a man apparently dedicated to exposing it as a fraud.

“A lot of people have been brainwashed by these fake kung fu masters,” says Xu, who broke his silence to talk to TIME. “I’m trying to wake them up and let them know what real traditional kung fu actually is.”

The supposedly 4,000-year-old roots of kung fu can still be glimpsed in China’s Henan province, home of the fearsome fighting monks of Shaolin Buddhism. Dating from A.D. 495, the Shaolin temple is perched on the west side of the forested Mount Songshan, one of China’s so-called five Sacred Mountains.

According to legend, the monastery’s fighting prowess evolved from perfecting household chores like sweeping, fetching buckets of river water and collecting firewood. Feuding warlords would eagerly petition the warrior monks’ help for their bloody campaigns. Even after the Shaolin temple was routed for subversive activities during the Qing dynasty, its influence spread as its monastic diaspora journeyed across the Middle Kingdom and as far as Japan.

Today, life inside the temple begins before daybreak, when the hundred resident monks shuffle into the central shrine to perform a 5 a.m. ritual. Kneeling before golden statues of the Buddha, they chant melodic rites accented by drum and cymbal, beneath bronze effigies of the order’s iconic warrior brethren.

Later, the tourists arrive and the monks get to work. Novices put on kung fu shows where they tumble through the air, shatter metal bars over skulls and bend wooden spears with throats. Lithe performers adopt animalistic fighting styles, like monkey, leopard and leaping bullfrog. The reputation of the Shaolin monks has traveled far and wide; organizations using its name are all across China and the world. There are now around 140 Shaolin schools in 70 nations, according to local media.

In the U.S. kung fu entered the culture in the 1960s and ’70s, partly due to Bruce Lee, the U.S.-born actor and martial artist who starred in cult movies Enter the Dragon and Fist of Fury. His popularity helped pave the way for actors like Jackie Chan and Jet Li to turn kung fu expertise into Hollywood stardom. In the 1990s, hip-hop group the Wu-Tang Clan littered their music with references to the Shaolin temple and samples from Chinese kung fu movies.

But kung fu’s cultural reputation has taken a battering with the rise of MMA, and in particular the Ultimate Fighting Championship. The first UFC tournament in 1993 was billed as pitting different martial art styles against one another, featuring experts in kung fu, karate, wrestling and even sumo. In the end, Brazilian jujitsu reigned supreme.

A quarter of a century later, MMA rivals boxing in global popularity, augmented by the booming celebrity of stars like Conor McGregor and Ronda Rousey. Many fans prefer the intensity of the format and stripped-down rules. Brazilian jujitsu, Thai kickboxing and wrestling remain the pillars of MMA fighting. The fluid acrobatics of wushu barely feature.

In China, kung fu remains a powerful draw. A study by Chinese Internet giant NetEase estimated the wushu industry’s worth at billions of dollars, including film, television, education, tourism and retail. Its official association boasts of 2 million full-time students at 12,000 academies. But MMA is catching up, with several rival promotions vying for supremacy. When Canadian MMA fighter Vaughn “Blud” Anderson moved to Beijing in 2008, there were maybe five MMA contests all year. Now there can be 10 in a weekend. “It’s growing faster here than anywhere else in the world,” he says.

continued next post

GeneChing

11-09-2018, 10:16 AM

Shaolin temple abbot Shi Yong Xin tells TIME kung fu can’t be compared to MMA because its true essence is spiritual rather than simply physical, bringing not superpowers but inner peace. But many people in China still give credence to the idea that the most skilled practitioners have supernatural abilities, and there’s no shortage of self-styled masters willing to go along with the ruse. A quick glance on YouTube reveals kung fu masters with claims of telekinesis and “shamanic dances that open up other realms of existence.” Some make money by promising to train others, and many have passionate disciples; the defeated Wei, for example, has 94,000 followers on China’s Twitter-like microblog Weibo.

The Shaolin temple itself is not free of commercialization. As the monks practice before rapt audiences, hawkers brandish DVDs. Shi himself has a gold-embossed business card with no less than three QR codes on it. But he says crooked kung fu practitioners and teachers often use the temple’s name without permission. “I had one worker who wasn’t even a monk but quit and started his own Shaolin school,” he says bitterly.

So Shi backs Xu’s campaign to rid kung fu of deceptive practitioners, like the female tai chi master who claims she can repel 12 opponents without using her hands. “He’s a good guy, even though he’s a totally amateur MMA fighter,” Shi says, before quipping to a fellow monk that “a hundred people in Henan province alone” could defeat Xu. But overall, concedes the abbot, “Xu is doing the right thing by fighting fake kung fu.”

Xu’s battle is increasingly a lonely one, however, as the Chinese government is weaponizing kung fu for its own propaganda purposes. This year, the Shaolin temple controversially flew the Chinese national flag for the first time, illustrating its “patriotic” credentials under the auspices of the all-powerful Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Jackie Chan, the Hong Kong–born actor among the most beloved icons in kung fu, became a political adviser to the party in 2013 and now regularly appears on its behalf.

In this context, it’s easy to see why Xu weathered such a backlash. His mission to expose unscrupulous kung fu masters was a threat to the cultural outreach of the CCP. The idea that kung fu is unique, with perhaps otherworldly elements, gives it popular currency that sets it apart from Western combat skills. “Everybody thinks that in Shaolin there’s some secret knowledge that nobody wants to teach to others, especially the ‘evil foreigners,'” says Marta Neskovic, 26, a Serbian doctorate student who’s training at the temple for her fieldwork on Shaolin kung fu.

Even veterans of other forms of pugilism believe. “I know Chinese MMA fighters who believe there are kung fu experts who live in mountain caves and can disappear and reappear at will,” says Anderson. He suspects ancient kung fu morphed toward the cabalistic because modern weaponry was making hand-to-hand combat less relevant. “It just isn’t efficient as a form of full-contact combat with a resisting opponent,” he says. “Bullfrog kung fu cannot be what defended the empire.”

Proving that to nationalistic Chinese will be difficult, but Xu has dedicated himself to trying. After his defeat of Wei, police stopped a second bout against tai chi master Ma Baoguo, and the mounting opprobrium forced Xu to retreat from public gaze.

Yet he can claim a partial success. In November 2017, China’s General Administration of Sport issued a directive apparently in response to Xu’s bout with Wei, clamping down on self-appointed masters and demanding practitioners “build correct values about martial arts.” But it also banned unauthorized fights, in a bid to stifle debate about the relative merits of traditional and modern martial arts. On Nov. 5, Xu heard he was barred “indefinitely” from organizing tournaments for fighters at his gym.

Nevertheless, Xu is continuing his personal campaign. In April, he fought and defeated kung fu master Ding Hao in under two minutes, and he’s planning another bout against what he says will be three “top, top” kung fu masters in a single day. He hopes that each victory will stifle his dissenters and restore normality to his life. Defeat isn’t an option, he says. “I cut their way of making money by exposing them,” he says. “So I cannot stop, as then the whole weight of pressure will come crushing down on me. I have no choice but to keep on fighting.”

–With reporting by ZHANG CHI/BEIJING
Write to Charlie Campbell at charlie.campbell@time.com.
This appears in the November 19, 2018 issue of TIME.
Anti-PRC undertone here?

GeneChing

11-14-2018, 09:14 AM

KUNG FU PANDER
A fighting style touting inner peace sparks a cultural war in China (https://qz.com/1462246/a-fighting-style-touting-inner-peace-sparks-a-cultural-war-in-china/)
By Ephrat Livni November 13, 2018

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/KungFu-2.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&w=1600&h=900
Challenges to the magical powers of kung fu practitioners aren’t appreciated.

Tradition and modernity are always at war, at least figuratively. In China, however, the battle between mixed martial arts and wushu—or kung fu—is now literal and political, pitting old-school grandmasters against a new style of scrapper. And the Chinese government doesn’t approve.

Xu Xiaodong, a mixed martial arts (MMA) fighter, riled traditionalists last year by defeating tai chi master Wei Lei, who claims mystical powers, in a brisk showdown that lasted just a few seconds. MMA is a postmodern fighting style, a pastiche of the world’s most effective forms and a sport that’s grown increasingly popular internationally. Xu was forced to go into hiding as the viral video of the fight inspired death threats by people who felt he was mocking tradition. A reprimand from the Chinese Wushu Association accused him of “suspected illegal actions that violate the morals of martial arts.”

The MMA fighter emerged from hiding and in April won another big showdown against kung fu master Ding Hao in less than two minutes. Again, the win did little to convince traditionalists of Xu’s loyalty to Chinese culture. On Nov. 5, Xu learned that local sporting authorities were barring him “indefinitely” from organizing tournaments for MMA fighters at his gym in Beijing.

Xu contends that he isn’t trying to undermine traditional fighting styles. Rather, he’s attempting to expose phony masters who make unfounded and outlandish claims about mystical powers. “A lot of people have been brainwashed by these fake kung fu masters,” Xu tells Time. “I’m trying to wake them up and let them know what real traditional kung fu actually is.”

Wushu was developed by Zen master Boddhidharma, who brought Buddhism from India to China around 500 AD, and developed in the remote forest mountain temple Shaolin. Its approach is shrouded in mysticism and myth. Some practitioners claim to be able to defy gravity, for example. Before his loss to Xu, the tai chi master Wei claimed to be able to control invisible force fields. These claims, and Shaolin temple’s mystical aura, were popularized in kung fu movies by Bruce Lee and, more recently, in films like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, as well as in the music of the Wu Tang Clan.

While some monks may possess spiritual powers, like self-mastery, not every alleged grandmaster is a magician. That’s why Xu’s view has support from Shi Yong Xin, abbot of the Shaolin temple.

Shi argues that kung fu and MMA are fundamentally different. Wushu is, at heart, a spiritual practice, though mastery involves rigorous physical training, so the abbot doesn’t consider the new style of fighting, or its proponent Xu, much of a threat. From his perspective, wushu is a method to cultivate inner peace.

Of Xu, Shi says, “He’s a good guy, even though he’s a totally amateur MMA fighter…a hundred people in Henan province alone” could defeat him. Still, according to the abbot, “Xu is doing the right thing by fighting fake kung fu.”He, too, believes that con artists promote a mythology about wushu and the monks of the Shaolin temple that in the long term detracts from traditional practices.

While the abbot and the new-school fighter may see eye to eye on debunking myths about magical abilities advanced by sham masters, the Chinese government isn’t thrilled with Xu. Kung fu is part of its “soft power” campaign to promote Chinese culture around the world. Hong Kong–born actor Jackie Chan, whose kung fu movies are widely adored, is a revered national figure who has been advising the Communist party on promotion since 2013. The politically agnostic Shaolin temple controversially flew the Chinese national flag for the first time to show support for the government this year.

The rise of MMA and the apparent ability of Xu to dominate in fights against old-school masters is problematic in the government’s view. Worldwide, love of king fu has been lucrative for China, bringing in billions of dollars from films and schools, while cultivating affection and respect in practitioners and admirers internationally.

Xu is undaunted, however, displaying the spirit of a true fighter. He’s vowed to continue fighting nonetheless, though he’s up against two formidable opponents—tradition and the state. It may be a losing proposition.

THREADS:
Venerable Abbot Shi Yongxin (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?16353-Venerable-Abbot-Shi-Yongxin)
That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About)

B.Tunks

11-14-2018, 03:43 PM

Lei Lei is a clown. Here's his latest bout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3oOFoT9ZYk
These guys are not exactly advancing TCMA, ha ha...

At least it sounds like he finally got some sense beaten into him though:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB1DHVZj7F4

I think it's time for him to choose a new hobby.

BT

GeneChing

11-28-2018, 09:30 AM

Srsly? Zhu Chunping is really too dumb to have accepted this challenge.

Chinese kick-boxer knocks out tai chi master with one punch in latest blow to traditional martial arts (https://www.scmp.com/sport/china/article/2174830/chinese-kick-boxer-knocks-out-tai-chi-master-one-punch-latest-blow)
Zhu Chunping, 47, lasts only five seconds against Yao Hantian
The 22-year-old Yao has been training kick-boxing for just six months
PUBLISHED : Saturday, 24 November, 2018, 6:01pm
UPDATED : Saturday, 24 November, 2018, 6:16pm
Nicolas Atkin
https://twitter.com/nicoscmp

https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980x551/public/images/methode/2018/11/24/7dfe214a-efca-11e8-b0fe-c62dccd2d711_1280x720_210446.jpg?itok=J0qUOP8d

Traditional martial arts has suffered another blow in the battle for supremacy with more modern forms of combat after footage emerged of a Chinese kick-boxer flattening a tai chi master with just one punch.

The 47-year-old expert Zhu Chunping, who has been practising tai chi for decades, hit the canvas five seconds into a bout with Yao Hantian, a 22-year-old amateur who has only been training kick-boxing for six months.

The cross-disciplinary fight took place earlier this month at an event put on by the Shanghai-based Shengshi Yinghao Club in Suzhou, eastern China. The card also featured seven kick-boxing matches and one MMA bout, with around 1,500 spectators watching.

Doctors rushed into the ring to check on Zhu, with Shengshi Yinghao Club director Li Yong admitting the organisers had not expected things to end so quickly.

“Upon examination, Master Zhu was fine. He recovered for one minute then walked down the ring by himself,” Li, who also coaches Yao, told MailOnline.

At 1.7 metres, Zhu is one inch shorter than Yao but three kilograms heavier at 75kg. Organisers said Zhu is also a master with traditional weapons such as swords and sticks.

Li said the fight was not arranged to determine the supremacy of one form over the other, but for mutual improvement.

He also defended tai chi after the outcome of the fight had prompted ridicule of Zhu and the traditional form, but admitted it was an outdated style compared to modern combat sports.

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2018/11/24/122a095c-efca-11e8-b0fe-c62dccd2d711_1320x770_181632.jpg
Zhu Chunping is hit by Yao Hantian. Photo: Shengshi Yinghao Club

“Tai chi can improve one’s health and temperament and has a lot of philosophy of martial arts in it,” Li said.

“A lot of the kick-boxing techniques come from tai chi, such as shoulder roll and the way you use your strength while kicking. It is an important part of modern boxing.”

Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong sparked controversy last May when he pummelled self-proclaimed tai chi master Wei Lei in just 11 seconds. Such was the outrage of some, a Chinese tycoon offered a total of US$1.45 million to anyone who could defeat Xu and “defend the dignity” of martial artists.

Xu said he was assaulted in September 2017 by two strangers claiming they represented traditional martial arts. He said the attack went on for 15 minutes, and forced him to withdrew from public life for a few months.

But the 40-year-old resurfaced in April this year, beating kung fu master Ding Hao in under two minutes.

He broke his silence earlier this month, vowing he would keep on exposing “kung fu fakery” but claimed he had been barred “indefinitely” from organising tournaments for fighters at his Beijing gym.

Li appeared to share some of Xu’s sentiments, saying that modern masters do not know how best to convey the sophistication of traditional arts.

“All they do is boast that they could fight, which leads to the opposition between modern boxing and those ‘fake’ kung fu masters,” Li said.

“Chinese kung fu is great, but it has been used in the wrong place by people with their own agenda.”

Tai chi is said to have been invented in 17th century China, and is one of the most popular sports with Chinese state media claiming it is practised by more than 250 million people worldwide.

THREADS:
A Challenge (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?29936-A-Challenge)
That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About)

GeneChing

11-29-2018, 09:26 AM

http://image5.sixthtone.com/image/5/14/864.jpg

UFC Wants to Turn Shanghai Into a Mixed Martial Arts Mecca (http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003275/ufc-wants-to-turn-shanghai-into-a-mixed-martial-arts-mecca)
The company says it’s going to build the world’s largest MMA training facility in the eastern Chinese megacity.
Kenrick Davis
Nov 29, 2018 5-min read

SHANGHAI — It’s been a big month for mixed martial arts in China. On Nov. 20, the sport’s largest promotion company, Ultimate Fighting Championship, or UFC, announced plans for a $13 million training center in China. The 93,000-square-foot UFC Performance Institute Shanghai will be the largest MMA training facility in the world and will feature a gym, sparring areas, recovery pools, and the sport’s iconic octagonal rings — one complete with stadium-style lighting and spectator seating.

UFC said at a press conference in Shanghai last week that the center will help train China’s next generation of MMA fighters and spread the sport throughout the country. There are currently 11 Chinese fighters — eight men and three women — on UFC’s roster of 461 athletes from around the world, and the company hopes to triple this figure in 2019. In just the past year, the number of users on social app WeChat who follow UFC’s official account has increased by 60 percent.

On Saturday, UFC held its 141st Fight Night event at Beijing’s Cadillac Arena to a crowd of over 10,000 — the second time an installment in the series had ever been staged in China. Although a faceoff between elite heavyweights Curtis Blaydes and Francis Ngannou was nominally the night’s main draw, two local fighters attracted the most attention from domestic media present at the event — and they did not disappoint their home crowd.

UFC’s most experienced Chinese fighter, Li Jingliang — known as The Leech for his mastery of headlock submission holds — defeated his German opponent, David Zawada, by delivering a deft kick to the midsection. Meanwhile, 20-year-old rising star Song Yadong — dubbed The Kung Fu Monkey after the simian hero in the Chinese epic “Journey to the West” — won his fight against American Vince Morales in three rounds. The three female Chinese participants — all of whom won their matches — also turned heads, especially Zhang Weili, who “mauled” veteran Jessica Aguilar of the U.S. to claim her 18th straight victory.

http://image5.sixthtone.com/image/5/14/884.jpg
Chinese mixed martial artist Zhang Weili celebrates after her victory at UFC’s first-ever event in Beijing, Nov. 24, 2018. Courtesy of UFC

The MMA training facility coming to Shanghai represents a major investment in developing the sport in China, where it was little-known just a decade ago, Kevin Chang, the Asia-Pacific vice president of UFC, told Sixth Tone during last week’s press conference. When the company entered the Chinese market in 2011, there were myriad misconceptions about MMA — like whether it was real fighting or merely a testosterone-fueled performance akin to a World Wrestling Entertainment event.

Over the past few years, the sport has gradually found a foothold in China thanks to UFC, local promoters, and the Singapore-based ONE Championship, with specialized MMA gyms popping up across the country. For its part, UFC has cultivated a Chinese fan base by inking broadcasting deals, expanding its social media presence, and grooming local stars like Li, who has over half a million followers on microblogging platform Weibo.

But the sport has also courted its fair share of controversy. In April 2017, MMA fighter and promoter Xu Xiaodong attempted to demonstrate the superiority of his craft by pummelling an older, portlier tai chi master in a heavily criticized fight. More recently, a brawl that ensued on the sidelines of a high-profile Las Vegas showdown between MMA stars Conor McGregor and Khabib Nurmagomedov — known among Chinese fans by their respective nicknames, Mouth Cannon and Little Eagle — was widely reported and commented on in China.

Reputation management remains an ongoing challenge for such an inherently violent pastime, said Chang. “We’re not a bloodless sport,” he said candidly, adding that lax standards at local, non-UFC events — many of which don’t have the resources to test athletes for doping — have led to incidents that tarnish the sport’s reputation. “When something quote-unquote ‘bad’ happens in MMA, it affects all of us, and it affects that perception which we’re trying so hard to correct,” Chang said, noting that conditions at domestically organized fights seem to be improving at least.

http://image5.sixthtone.com/image/5/14/885.jpg
American mixed martial artist Vince Morales protects himself from a punch thrown by his Chinese opponent, Song Yadong, at a UFC Fight Night event in Beijing, Nov. 24, 2018. Courtesy of UFC

American Ramsey Dewey, a former MMA fighter who now runs a gym in Shanghai, describes some of the hassles he experienced in the sport’s early days in China on his popular YouTube channel: a fighter covering himself in oil to slip out of holds, promoters vanishing without making payments, trainers supplying banned materials to bind fighters’ hands, and competitors kicking the heads of their fallen opponents. According to Dewey, his MMA career ended after a bout with a Chinese fighter who had wrapped his fingers with a dangerous kind of tape provided by event organizers. “One single punch shattered my skull,” Dewey says in one of his videos, explaining how certain wrapping materials can pack a harder punch.

Although most injuries are superficial and not life-threatening, local authorities can be nervous about events taking place under their watch, UFC fighter Wang Guan told Sixth Tone at last week’s press conference. Wang — or The Dongbei Tiger, as he’s sometimes known — competed in China’s first Fight Night event a year ago. He’s also the man Dewey says forced him into early retirement, though Wang maintains that his hand bindings were legitimate. According to the Chinese fighter, officials are afraid of competitors suffering severe injuries and have been known to shut events down early. Nevertheless, Wang said MMA in China has come a long way in recent years — particularly with respect to the quality of referees, whose split-second decisions can prevent curtailed careers — and he’s bullish about its continued growth.

“Judging by how things are developing in China, I think MMA will be the dominant fighting sport here in the future,” he said.

For now, though, Chinese fans are holding out for a champion and remain only slightly bitter that local fighters seem to have such a hard time getting matched up against the world’s leading competitors. Li, for example, has had 11 UFC fights, but none were against top-40 opponents. But according to Chang, UFC’s Asia-Pacific vice president, it’s only a matter of time before Chinese fighters will have the chance to prove themselves against elite competition.

“Even before the establishment of the Shanghai Performance Institute, some of our [Chinese fighters] could already hang with the best of the best — it takes years to get a title shot,” Chang said. “I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect that we’ll have some contenders in the next couple years.”

Editor: David Paulk.

(Header image: Li Jingliang of China lands a kick against David Zawada of Germany during the UFC Fight Night in Beijing, Nov. 24, 2018. Greg Baker/VCG)

THREADS
China MMA (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?49870-China-MMA)
You too could own a UFC Gym (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?67702-You-too-could-own-a-UFC-Gym)
That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-That-MMA-vs-Taiji-Fight-Everyones-Talking-About)
UFC Performance Institute Shanghai (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71097-UFC-Performance-Institute-Shanghai)

GeneChing

01-15-2019, 08:53 AM

Xu Xiaodong bludgeons another kung fu ‘master’ as Chinese MMA fighter leaves 56-year-old looking like he’s trying Bird Box challenge (https://www.scmp.com/sport/mixed-martial-arts/article/2182199/xu-xiaodong-bludgeons-another-kung-fu-master-chinese-mma)
‘Mad Dog’ shatters Tian Ye’s nose in seconds with brutal elbows in one-sided mauling
Outspoken Xu toys with 56-year-old and mocks him before vicious TKO
PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 15 January, 2019, 6:43pm
UPDATED : Tuesday, 15 January, 2019, 7:30pm
Nicolas Atkin
https://twitter.com/nicoscmp

https://cdn3.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980x551/public/images/methode/2019/01/15/e7bee228-18aa-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_image_hires_193021.jpg?itok=mLZTj3xR

Xu Xiaodong, the outspoken mixed martial arts star who has made it his mission to expose “fake kung fu”, is back doing what he does best.

The man known as “Mad Dog” took on another kung fu “master” in China last weekend, this time under kick-boxing rules, and left his latest victim heavily bandaged and bruised.

A Chinese tycoon reportedly put up 30 million yuan (US$4.4 million) in prize money for 56-year-old Tian Ye if he could defeat Xu, who has outraged many in China and caused debate in the traditional martial arts community with a series of brutal knockout wins in fights against practitioners of kung fu.

Tian was guaranteed 3 million yuan even if he lost. But while his name may translate as “Wild Fury”, he could offer anything but that as 40-year-old Xu toyed with his opponent and mocked him before finishing him in the second round.

Tian started the fight off by throwing a flurry of punches, which Xu barely even bothered to defend against before exploding with a brutal combination of elbows to the face.

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/b04a0846-18a4-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Xu Xiaodong lands an elbow that breaks Tian Ye’s nose.

Blood began to pour from Tian’s clearly broken nose as the referee pulled the fighters apart with barely 30 seconds gone.

Xu turned away and shrugged his shoulders, and Tian went over to his corner to be treated by his team. His trainer then appeared to wave to the referee that his fighter could not continue, with Tian’s nose flattened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAQitRrTWMA

Xu began showboating and dancing in the ring as Tian got bandaged up, before slumping over looking bored in the corner and pretending to fall asleep.

But Tian re-emerged heavily bandaged with his eyes and nose almost entirely covered, looking less like a professional fighter and more like someone trying their hand at the “Bird Box Challenge” – a trend inspired by the hit Netflix film – where people blindfold themselves and do dumb things.

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/788f6d2e-18a9-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Xu Xiaodong pretends to sleep.

And taking on Xu when you’re 56 years old and have evidently had very little MMA training is certainly a dumb thing.

Xu could have ended things quickly but instead of further pulverising Tian’s face, he took mercy and reeled off some brutal leg kicks.

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/3ebb2ace-18aa-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Tian Ye is bandaged up.

“To me, he was a very nice person to do that,” wrote one commentator on YouTube. “If he was nasty, he would have just kept attacking his nose.”

Tian came out swinging again but Xu continued to shrug off his offence. Some more kicks took away Tian’s leading leg before Xu dropped him with an overhand left.

https://cdn3.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/970124fa-18a9-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Xu Xiaodong floors Tian Ye.

The referee checked Tian out and somehow cleared him to continue. Xu then threw a spinning back kick and turned his back and casually walked away, as Tian comically tried to punch him from behind, before the bell sounded.

The fight went into a second round, and in more farcical scenes, the ref then got hit by a stray right hand from Tian and was knocked backwards with his earpiece falling out.

continued next post

GeneChing

01-15-2019, 08:54 AM

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/a57c4bc2-18a9-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Xu Xiaodong casually turns his back on Tian Ye.

Xu was clearly taking it easy, and was being far less aggressive than in his other fights, perhaps looking to get a little bit more screen time as he embarrassed his opponent.

He let Tian punch himself out with some non-stop windmilling but then decided enough was enough, charging forward and throwing a devastating flying knee to the body at 1:27 of the second round. Add that one to the highlight reel.

https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/9e6af2fc-18a4-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Xu Xiaodong lands a knee.

Xu then took a bow before giving a nonchalant interview in the ring. Asked if there would be a rematch, Xu said: “No, we don’t have anything more to do with each other, me and this guy.”

The effect of that flying kick could be seen in the form of a huge welt on Tian’s right rib area, while there were several other large bruises on his legs.

Still, he stood in the centre of the ring and waved to the crowd.

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/ff899912-18a4-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Tian Ye waves to the crowd.

“I’m a martial artist, so I need to be able to take challenges,” Tian said. “I will pull out my sword when needed.”

The interviewer responded: “Yes, you pulled out your sword, but unfortunately it wasn’t sharp and it didn’t have its chance to shine.”

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/33ed7c78-18a5-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Tian Ye crawls on his knees as Xu Xiaodong is declared the winner.

As with most of Xu’s fights, this one caused plenty of debate.

“Fights like this don’t make traditional martial arts look good. I’m surprised that almost a year after Xu Xiaodong’s first fight there hasn’t been a martial artist serious enough to challenge him,” said one user on YouTube.

Female UFC fighter Polyana Viana rubbishes fake ‘arrest warrant’ story after beating up man who tried to mug her in Brazil

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/89208ec0-18a9-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Xu Xiaodong mocks his opponent.

Another said: “The reason fights like this matter is because there is this idea in Asian martial arts that size and age can stop mattering in a fight when technique is applied, which is total c***.

“Put any 56-year-old kung fu martial artist who has ever lived against Yoel Romero or Jon Jones and they will get murdered. These martial arts do not work and their philosophies are flawed and harmful.”

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/74465efc-18a5-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Xu Xiaodong lands a vicious kick.

“Xu Xiaodong should at least fight someone who is younger or fit. Him fighting all these old men is pointless,” said another user.

One comment read: “I don’t agree with how he disrespects traditional martial arts, but eventually traditional martial arts was going to get called out.”

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/15/44a3f150-18a5-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_193021.jpg
Tian Ye tries to pick himself up off the canvas.

“These guys [traditional martial artists] bend steel and break bricks at exhibitions but when it comes to real fighting they look like rank amateurs,” said another.

A comment read: “Xu Xiaodong is not a good fighter by any means, but that’s the whole point, even a s*** fighter can destroy these so-called masters that claim to have deadly martial art skills, these people are closer to scam artists then martial artists, they seek undeserved attention and praise by claiming to be unbeatable fighters.”

I'm changing the title of this thread from "That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About" to "Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu". That original fight seems so long ago now.

GeneChing

01-16-2019, 09:27 AM

Column by Nicolas Atkin
Xu Xiaodong could next face Yi Long – but this ‘fake Shaolin monk’ can actually fight (https://www.scmp.com/sport/mixed-martial-arts/article/2182371/xu-xiaodong-could-next-face-yi-long-fake-shaolin-monk-can)
Chinese MMA fighter will need to take Yi Long a lot more seriously than usual martial arts frauds
Yi Long is self-trained in Shaolin kung fu but has serious kick-boxing pedigree
PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 16 January, 2019, 5:18pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 16 January, 2019, 5:45pm
Nicolas Atkin
https://twitter.com/nicoscmp

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/980x551/public/images/methode/2019/01/16/d65c19b4-1964-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_image_hires_171841.jpg?itok=ak5Rk2Sp

Xu Xiaodong’s return to fighting was such a stroll he even pretended to fall asleep in the corner of the ring at one point. But he could be caught napping if he takes his next opponent so lightly.

The Chinese MMA fighter bludgeoned a 56-year-old kung fu “master” last weekend, breaking Tian Ye’s nose in a matter of seconds before toying with and mocking his then-heavily bandaged opponent, so pathetic were the blows being aimed his way.

And after another quick TKO victory, reports in Chinese media suggest the 40-year-old “Mad Dog” will next face Yi Long, the “fake Shaolin monk”.

But unlike the other traditional martial arts frauds Xu has pulverised on his mission to expose “fake kung fu”, Yi Long can actually fight.

Xu Xiaodong bludgeons another kung fu ‘master’ as Chinese MMA fighter leaves 56-year-old looking like he’s trying Bird Box challenge

https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/16/788f6d2e-18a9-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_171841.jpg
Xu Xiaodong pretends to sleep while his opponent is bandaged up. Photo: YouTube

Competing in yellow trousers with a shaved head, he has previously billed himself as the “No 1 Shaolin kung fu monk”.

But a Shaolin Temple spokesman said in December 2010 that he “is neither a kung fu monk of Shaolin Temple, nor could he be named as the No 1 Shaolin kung fu monk at all”.

Still, he is no joke. Yi Long is a Chinese Wushu and Sanshou kick-boxer who is self-trained in Shaolin kung fu, with a kick-boxing record of 61-12-1.

Xu Xiaodong, the Chinese MMA fighter who pummels martial arts masters, vows to expose kung fu ‘fakery’

https://cdn2.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/16/8f63b6bc-195e-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_972x_171841.jpg
Yi Long is self-trained in Shaolin kung fu. Photo: Instagram

“Shaolin kung fu and Muay Thai have many things in common,” he has said. “Muay Thai is good at steel knees, iron elbows and iron legs, those who master Muay Thai have strong defences.

“It’s the same in Shaolin kung fu. In Shaolin we have iron fists, iron legs and iron cloth,” he added, meaning the body is hard enough to defend any attack.

Many observers have been saying Xu will get his comeuppance one day when he stops fighting such feeble opposition, and Yi Long could be the man to provide a challenge by combining the strengths of kung fu with more modern fighting practices.

https://cdn3.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/16/f04665de-18a4-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_171841.jpg
Tian Ye is interviewed after being bludgeoned by Xu Xiaodong. Photo: YouTube

Despite being just 1.76-metres tall and weighing 76 kilograms, he got a TKO win against the 2.2-metres tall Korean super-heavyweight Choi Hong-man at knockout-only promotion MAS Fight’s debut event in Macau last November with a brutal spinning back kick to the body.

Chinese media reported that MAS Fight would like to book a fight between Yi Long and Xu, though said a deal hasn’t been completed yet and they are trying to confirm the news soon.

https://cdn4.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/16/84020d50-195e-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_972x_171841.jpeg
Yi Long in action for MAS Fight. Photo: Instagram

Yi Long has previously called out Xu, writing on his microblog in 2017 he would not tolerate Xu’s belittling of traditional martial arts, and called him a “shameless fraud”.

If the details can be ironed out, Xu is in for a much stiffer challenge – Yi Long has held his own against Buakaw Banchamek, fighting the Muay Thai legend twice with one win apiece.

He is also thought to be the unnamed Chinese kick-boxer that MMA coach John Kavanagh said had offered UFC star Conor McGregor US$5 million for a fight last month.

“He would absolutely massacre Xu Xiaodong,” was the verdict of another observer of Xu’s embarrassingly one-sided fight against Tian on YouTube.

“Yi Long is going to crush Xu Xiaodong,” another wrote. “Xiaodong has never come across as particularly adroit or athletic; it’s what makes his easy wins over traditional Chinese martial arts guys so notable.

“Yi Long, on the other hand, is a very good professional fighter who is in peak shape.”

https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2019/01/16/b04a0846-18a4-11e9-8ff8-c80f5203e5c9_1320x770_171841.jpg
Xu Xiaodong lands an elbow on Tian Ye. Photo: YouTube

It would certainly be a tougher challenge than most of Xu’s fights – he usually takes on opponents smaller and older than him, who have little to no fight training.

It’s not his fault, of course, that these fools masquerading as “masters” in traditional martial arts choose to challenge him.

Still, a video of Tian slowly limping through the airport has surfaced online, showing just how brutal Xu’s kicks, elbows and punches can be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPiqOO7l-dQ

Tian Ye can console himself with the 3 million yuan he earned just for fighting – a Chinese tycoon promised him 30 million yuan if he could win, such is the anger Xu has caused among some in the traditional martial arts community – but Yi Long is not some bum picked off the street.

“I just hope that Xu Xiaodong takes his match with Yi Long more seriously than he did this one,” a commenter said.

Xu Xiadong mocks his opponent. Photo: YouTube
Indeed, Xu has some legitimate skill and experience and can hold his own – he puts in the hours training in his Beijing gym – but he can’t afford to drop his hands to his waist and showboat here.

If he can put together a proper defensive strategy, it could lead to an interesting fight. Either way, it will certainly be more competitive that his mauling of poor old Tian Ye.

At least Yi Long (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?57515-Shaolin-fighter-Yi-Long) has some ring experience, unlike the rest of Xu Xiaodong's (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu) opponents.

GeneChing

05-22-2019, 06:48 AM

I'm copying this thread Tian Ye - 56-year-old Kung Fu loser (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71308-Tian-Ye-56-year-old-Kung-Fu-loser) from the Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu) thread.

So what is up with Tian Ye? Why does some 56-year-old self-proclaimed Kung Fu master get to represent Kung Fu so badly? Why does he fight much younger, stronger and more skilled opponents?

Kung fu ‘master’ Tian Ye returns from Xu Xiaodong beating to face Chinese taekwondo black belt – and results aren’t pretty (https://www.scmp.com/sport/mixed-martial-arts/article/3011241/kung-fu-master-tian-ye-returns-xu-xiaodong-beating-face)
Tian Ye gets back in the ring after his brutal humiliation at the hands of MMA’s ‘Mad Dog’
But Zhang Long toys with 56-year-old and laughs at his pathetic offence
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 10:37am, 22 May, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/05/22/2b2a7474-7bab-11e9-8126-9d0e63452fe9_image_hires_150752.jpg?itok=V_oVql8h
Kung fu ‘master’ Tian Ye looks to strike Chinese taekwondo black belt Zhang Long. Photos: YouTube

The last time we saw Tian Ye, his head was wrapped in bandages as he shuffled through a Chinese airport having had his face and legs brutalised by the punches and kicks of Xu Xiaodong.
Well, the 56-year-old kung fu “master” decided he wanted another taste of the action, and was back to take on Chinese taekwondo black belt Zhang Long last weekend.
The fight took place in Karamay in Xinjiang on the same “card” as Xu’s quick demolition of another “master” – this time from wing chun. Tian did not look like he had learned much from the pummelling he took from Xu in January, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxbaSLNjZX8

Zhang toyed with his opponent throughout the fight, landing kicks at will to Tian’s body and face before the referee showed some mercy and called it off in the third round.
The much younger taekwondo practitioner, who is in much better physical shape than his overweight opponent, almost looked bored, as if he is did not need the fight against a man whose name translates as “Wild Fury” seriously.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/05/22/37c6590a-7bab-11e9-8126-9d0e63452fe9_1320x770_150752.jpg
Zhang Long laughs at the weak offence of Tian Ye.

Zhang laughed on the rare occasion that Tian landed his weak jabs, with Tian even trying to sneak a few in after the bell to end the first round.
The elder fighter also tried to take down Zhang and deliver some ground and pound, despite it being against the rules of the bout, in the knowledge his striking was having no effect.
“TKD [taekwondo] guy definitely didn’t want to injure his elder,” wrote one user in the comments on YouTube channel Fight Commentary Breakdowns’ video of the bout.
“He is just toying with the kung fu guy and being smug, that was really sad to watch,” wrote another. “I do ITF {a form of taekwondo] and that’s not how we do things. Also, the referee was completely irresponsible.”
One user said: “TKD bravado at its best. Or worst. Kung Fu guy was no threat and the TKD was toying with him. Total lack of respect but I can’t blame him.”
Tian had reportedly been guaranteed 3 million yuan (US$434,340) to get bludgeoned by Xu, but it’s not certain how much he received here to get his face all bruised up again.

Oh right. $434,340 is enough for a lot of people to humiliate themselves...:rolleyes:

GeneChing

05-23-2019, 09:37 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Oe1vmkcn8

THREADS
Threats and Challenges (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?17738-Threats-and-Challenges)
Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)

GeneChing

05-28-2019, 08:22 AM

China orders Xu Xiaodong to publicly apologise and pay damages for insulting tai chi ‘grandmaster’ Chen Xiaowang (https://www.scmp.com/sport/mixed-martial-arts/article/3011644/china-orders-xu-xiaodong-publicly-apologise-and-pay)
Chinese court rules outspoken MMA fighter has to pay ‘world-renowned’ Chen Xiaowang around 400,000 yuan
‘Mad Dog’ also has to say sorry to Chen for seven consecutive days on Chinese social media
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 2:47pm, 24 May, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/05/24/7763de2a-7dd1-11e9-8126-9d0e63452fe9_image_hires_154332.jpg?itok=7mOnjVYc
Xu Xiaodong (left) will publicly apologise to Chen Xiaowang (right) and pay him damages. Photo: Tom Wang/chenxiaowang.com

Outspoken MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong has been ordered by the Chinese courts to pay hundreds of thousands of yuan in damages and publicly apologise on social media for insulting a tai chi “grandmaster”.
Chen Xiaowang bills himself on his own website as the “19th generation lineage holder of Chen family taijiquan” and “one of the few holders of the highest rank of 9th Duan Wei conferred by the Chinese Wushu Association”.
These accolades have been bestowed on him “not only for his high level of achievements in tai chi, but also for the impact of his substantial worldwide contributions in introducing, promoting and developing Chen style taijiquan”.
That didn’t stop Xu from calling Chen a fraud a couple of years ago – but it seems he was playing with fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qK0MXNBu7o

Chen is a board member of the Henan Institute of Sport and has the backing of the powerful Chinese Wushu Association, which has not taken kindly to Xu’s mission to expose “fake kung fu” by pulverising traditional martial artists who he believes are swindling the public.
The 41-year-old was sued for defamation and now a court document translated by YouTube channel Fight Commentary Breakdowns shows that Xu has to pay Chen around 400,000 yuan.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/05/24/123628b2-7dd3-11e9-8126-9d0e63452fe9_972x_154332.jpg
The court document detailing Xu Xiaodong’s punishments. Photo: Fight Commentary Breakdowns

“Mad Dog” must also apologise to Chen for seven consecutive days on Chinese social media platform NetEase.
The court document also shows some other punishments handed out to Xu, who now has a D-level social credit score in China.

That means he can’t ride in second class or above on planes or sleeper trains, nor ride high-speed trains – which is why it took him 36 hours to travel to his latest bout in Karamay, Xinjiang, where he brutalised a wing chun “master” in less than a minute.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/05/24/ccd07db4-7dd1-11e9-8126-9d0e63452fe9_972x_154332.jpg
Chen Xiaowang is a ‘grandmaster’ in taijiquan. Photo: chenxiaowang.com

Xu is also barred from staying at certain hotels and golf courses, and has restrictions relating to buying or renting property and taking other modes of transport.
Xu doesn’t have children but if he did, there would be education restrictions placed on them too.
It seems like a costly mistake for Xu to have criticised Chen, who bills himself as a “direct descendant” of the creator of taijiquan, Cheng Wangting, and the grandson of Chen Fa’ke who was “renowned as the greatest taijiquan master at the beginning of the 20th century”.

Chen says he received “rigorous training” in Chen family taijiquan theory, forms, weapons, push hands and free sparring from his father and uncles.
He also boasts of winning three consecutive gold medals at the National Taijiquan Competition from 1980 to 1982, and in 1985 he became world champion for China at the First International Martial Arts Competition in Xi’an. He says he has since been champion in taijiquan more than 20 times.
Chen’s accolades don’t stop there. He has also apparently choreographed and directed martial arts films and written books and essays on taijiquan which “have been translated into many languages and published worldwide”, and left China in 1990 “on a mission to promote taijiquan to the world”.

He apparently also travels each year a distance “equivalent to twice the circumference of the earth” promoting and teaching taijiquan in Europe, North America, South America and Asia.
“Chen’s big heartedness, his outstanding taijiquan skills, and his personal characteristics make him highly respected around the world,” his own website says.
“He is truly the most outstanding Chen family taijiquan master of his generation and a world-renowned martial artist.”

Interesting that this news article puts 'grandmaster' in quotes for Chen Xiaowang.

THREAD
Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
Grandmaster Chen Xiaowang (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64008-Grandmaster-Chen-Xiaowang)

GeneChing

05-28-2019, 08:30 AM

China’s censorship of Xu Xiaodong for exposing fake martial arts masters is alarming (https://www.scmp.com/sport/mixed-martial-arts/article/3011784/china-censoring-xu-xiaodong-exposing-kung-fu-frauds-and)
Outspoken MMA fighter has to hide his face with clown make-up and use demeaning fake name for latest fight
‘Mad Dog’ is disappearing from Chinese search engine listings – and being forced to apologise on social media
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 1:47pm, 25 May, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/05/25/f5a9d9a6-7ea3-11e9-8126-9d0e63452fe9_image_hires_155700.jpg?itok=ZTNQgHmt
Xu Xiaodong angrily stalks the ring after winning his latest fight in less than a minute. Photos: YouTube

Xu Xiaodong’s nickname may be “Mad Dog”, but the Chinese MMA fighter looked even angrier than usual dealing out his latest beat down of a kung fu fraud.
The 41-year-old pulverised balding pressure point wing chun “master” Lu Gang in Karamay, China, last weekend breaking his hapless opponent’s nose and beating him in 47 seconds.
But exposing yet another fake martial artist didn’t seem to satisfy Xu, who still looked spitting mad as he paced around the ring while a doctor tended to his most recent victim.
That’s because the humiliation and punishment he is having to deal with from Chinese authorities is increasing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUpGBc4e37Q

If you are in China, you might not have even heard of the fight, because many Chinese search engines have stopped listing him – you have to subscribe to people on WeChat that talk about him if you want to get the latest.
Xu was not allowed to use his real name or even show his face for this event because authorities won’t let him promote himself. He was given a demeaning nickname – Winter Melon – poking fun at his size (he was 100lbs heavier than his scrawny opponent) and was wearing clown make-up, under threat that the event would not be livestreamed unless he agreed.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/05/25/11e5dcb4-7ea4-11e9-8126-9d0e63452fe9_1320x770_155700.jpg
The referee speaks to Xu Xiaodong and Lu Gang before their fight.

The ring announcers in Karamay seemed far more interested in promoting the balding wing chun master, too. They gave Lu a lengthy and gushing introduction, bigging up his abilities, on his way down to the ring, which he comically tripped up trying to enter.
Lu tried to run away after being knocked down three times, and was thankfully saved by the referee stepping in – not before his nose had been flattened.
He had laughably refused to wear a cup or mouthguard, saying it would hinder his wing chun abilities, until the referee made him go backstage and get them, which meant Xu had to stand around in his corner waiting like a chump for several minutes.
Xu also had to travel 36 hours on a slow train just to get to the fight – because he is banned from riding high-speed public transport as part of his new D-level social credit score.
That was handed to him by the Chinese courts as part of his punishment for insulting the tai chi “grandmaster” Chen Xiaowang – whom he must also apologise to on Chinese social media for seven consecutive days, and pay around 400,000 yuan in damages.
The punishment places other alarming restrictions on Xu, including on buying or renting property, and would also put education restrictions on his children if he had any.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/05/25/3254190c-7ea4-11e9-8126-9d0e63452fe9_1320x770_155700.jpg
The referee raises Xu Xiaodong’s hand – as the wing chun ‘master’ checks on his broken nose.

And all of this simply because the all-powerful Chinese Wushu Association has taken umbrage at Xu’s actions and words.
Xu is no angel – he has good intentions, but deliberately provokes people to create a stir, and that is never going to fly in China, as unfair as that is.
The Chinese government have been actively censoring him since he first caused a stir when a video of him knocking out tai chi master Wei Lei in 10 seconds went viral in 2017.
He’s had police break up his fights before they’ve started, and is barred from running his own tournaments or events now at his Beijing gym, while having to deal with angry groups – claiming to defend the honour of traditional martial arts – confronting him in the streets.
“They’re trying to silence me,” Xu said, crying, in an emotional social media video post two years ago where he railed against the Chinese Wushu Association.
“I was born in Nancheng, in Xuanwu Hospital. I grew up in Beijing. I speak like a Beijing person. I do all the things that Beijing people do. I don’t steal, I don’t rob. I fight, but that’s what men do. It’s not wrong.
“I’m just an average citizen … I say I’m the first Chinese MMA person, am I wrong? I repeat, I’m Chinese. I represented Chinese people in MMA, and now they’re all attacking me.
“When I competed, nobody gave me money. Who cared about me then? I’ve had 10,000 students since 2003. Is this someone who doesn’t love his country? It was my dream for anyone who wanted to do amateur MMA to be able to do it.
“Investigate the Chinese Wushu Association and see what they’ve done for people in China. Have they developed martial arts to anything? Give Chinese people an opportunity to become healthier and stronger. Chinese people go up six flights of stairs and get so tired. Is that what we want the average Chinese person to be?”
Xu has another fight coming up next month, but it is likely to be harder and harder for him to get his message out there in China.
Those of us who can should enjoy the Mad Dog now, while China still lets him fight.

I do believe in exposing fakes, however I wish Mad Dog would pick opponents that are his size and his age. His opponents are consistently smaller and considerably older. But that's not as good a story as exposing fakes by beating them up.

Jimbo

05-28-2019, 09:59 AM

I do believe in exposing fakes, however I wish Mad Dog would pick opponents that are his size and his age. His opponents are consistently smaller and considerably older. But that's not as good a story as exposing fakes by beating them up.

I agree with you 100%, Gene.

IMO, he also could have shown a little more class than calling someone like Chen a fraud, even if he thinks he's a fraud. Xu is complaining now, but what did he expect? You cannot do the same thing the same way all the time, and keep expecting a different result. He keeps doing stuff that's getting him censored in China, and keeps wondering why they're censoring him. He probably could have achieved his quest without stepping on the toes of so many powerful people (or at least done so to a lesser degree).

When I first watched the fight video with the 'Wing Chun Pressure Point' guy, I thought the WC guy was European.

Djuan

05-29-2019, 07:52 AM

just saw this video a few days ago about this story, and while I get his point, it's pointless still.
All arts have a place. Wushu performers dont compete in the UFC. Thats my first perspective.
Secondly, I respect the zeal to expose fakes, however, do REAL martial artists an MMA fighters need this?
it seems like he wants to write out traditional martial arts for his own personal reason.
Im all for knocking down mc-dojos, and fakejutsu, uber quan , zen kung karate kwoons, "chi kung magicians" etc.....
however, Im always skeptical of ANYTHING western, AGGRESSIVELY trying to supersede what came "before" it. For example, he hasn't challenged a real master of any art. To correlate, no REAL master takes him seriously.
Third, its proven Qi Gong is beneficial outside of fighting. So leave it alone at that, why go pick on a dude who says he fights with his Qi Gong? let him talk his talk, lol
Thats like the Gracies going to prove BJJ will crush all WWE wrestlers because they "talk so tough" .....like cmon....Martial Arts is a personal journey, its not about debunking someones claim, business, or journey.

Fourth, and most important, Traditional Arts have spiritual links, and meditative purpose beyond the MMA ring, so in that respect his whole argument is irrelevant to a pure practitioner. If someone is looking to gain money from lying, I get it to expose the fraud to the ignorant, thats just plain justice, and doesnt require him blazing a special trail agains the people who shoot kamehameha waves at chikung seminars for coins. Most these guys are easy to spot. In the spirit of Buddhism, everything he's saying is irrelevant, or Daoism for that matter, at any phase of your training , its always alchemy, and there is always a stronger warrior because the arts are older than us. He has not challenged a fighter from Shaolin, who is a high caliber master, and there are several who are easy to reach out to for someone like him. Funny thing is, you never hear Muay Thai fighter riding to Shaolin to prove kickboxing dominance. Muay Thai is traditional. He can challenge Cung Le, Buakaw, lol.....or if he wants to pick on peaceful "traditional martial artist" you have Shi Yan Lei, Shi Yang Ming, who are in enough a spot light for him , they might spar with him? smh.....I want to know who he's trying to reach out to an challenge, bc if he isnt trying and getting turned down by real fighters and masters, hes full of it.

So, while I respect his courage, and I understand the plight of the honest realist, he still comes off as attention seeking. Why use fake masters as your claim to fame? If your art is strong, get your ass in the octagon and show and prove where it counts. If you want to see if traditional kung fu is valid to day, go find the BEST challenger who represents traditional kungfu. other than that, gtfo trying to "box" fake wing chun masters and "prove" to the world something obvious, that fake martial artist cant fight. then makes himself a big crybaby? complaining about being banned? well the performers feel bullied lol hahahhaha
I want to know who hurt is feelings? why he takes this path....because he has decent potential as a MMA fighter if thats what he wants to be, he doesnt have to beat fakes to prove himself.... And if its not for being hurt, then is he really just out for clout and using weak people to get it?

Either way, live and let live. humility humbles the ego, and humility might be expressed or perceived from anything/where/place/person. You cannot use your ego to humble some one, let their own journey do that.

So as student of life, wether you are Buddhist, Daoist, or martial artist of another faith, or self faith , whatever, you always have to examine the root of things, the origin, the silence things come from, because it all has a purpose. When I look at what MMA needs, and traditional arts needs, in my opinion, he serves no purpose. For himself, what purpose he serves is up to him, based on what he thinks/feels he needs. I just have never met warriors who cared what other warrior say about themselves or their craft UNLESS they were challenging them.

anyhow, going to do a pre work session now in celebration of honesty with self :)

Amituofo

Djuan

05-30-2019, 06:49 AM

Amituofo ..

lets see him challenge a real traditional fighter like Shifu Shi Yan Lei, who trained to fight as well as the traditional forms equally, QiGong in all in between included.
Because giving this dude xuxiaodong airtime is disrespectful lol, not only to the Chinese Martial Arts community, and China in general, he is disrespectful to ALL Martial Arts, just as much as the fakes he's calling out, if not more of disgrace because he claiming Martial Arts, and pretty much bullying weak fakes with poor kickboxing technique. xu xiao dong is no genius fight technician in no way shape or form, he is not a tactician, hes not even in that good of shape. He has no spiritual or moral compass that he could apply to his life to get him a better exposure and better results for his efforts.
Gene, of all the trolls in the history of Martial Arts, from dojos, to forums, to espn lol the Xu xiao dong is the worst. He is just a troll, and I didnt realize it till I saw a video of him beating an old self proclaimed master who just lost a fight to a chinese TKD competitor :o ......so Xu Xiao thinks its a good move to prove his point against this dude who already shows he has no skill lol, and ends up destroying the poor guy, I couldnt finish watching it man. And the look on Xu Xiaodongs face was disgusting.
so Im sharing this perspective, just now from Shi Yan Lei, I was going to make a new thread, I'll just post it here. Yan Lei makes great points here for ANY martial artist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuCypSpyz2w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuCypSpyz2w

PS: if they fought, (which we would never be granted such a great event lol) still I'd bet on Yan Lei, even with out giving him the "preparation time" he humbly said he'd need before entering the ring or cage (BC HE RESPECTS NOT JUST THE PLATFORM, ALSO THE FIGHTERS WHO USE IT AND THE WORK THEY PUT IN)
Much Love and Respect to all Martial Artist here and world wide, we keep each other going, and we keep the Arts Alive.

Amituofo

B.Tunks

06-04-2019, 11:13 PM

The people Xu Xiaodong is bashing are charlatans at worse, or deluded idiots at best - regardless of their age, physical condition or lack of ability. We should be asking ourselves why we have so many of these people in ‘TCMA’ in the first place, instead of taking offence at his actions.

GeneChing

06-05-2019, 08:46 AM

Fake preachers, fake politicians, fake professors, fakes everywhere. When this becomes annoying is the generalization. Just because some are bad, it doesn't mean they are all bad. What offends me is not so much what Xu is doing - it's how it is being reported. Take the Tian Ye fight. Whether or not he had any skills whatsoever, Tian Ye took a lot of money to take a fall. The news reported it, but the focus was 'fake Kung Fu'.

$434,340 is enough for a lot of people to humiliate themselves...:rolleyes:

Jimbo

06-05-2019, 09:23 AM

Something I find interesting about this whole thing is how the Chinese government is now defending "traditional" CMA. Back during the Cultural Revolution, TCMA and its teachers/practitioners were seen as promoting superstitious beliefs, etc., by the gov't.

I can definitely see where Xu Xiaodong is coming from. When he first came out and said why he was doing it, I was actually on his side. But like Gene says, ALL TCMA are being painted with the same brush. Meaning, all "kung fu masters" and practitioners are being labeled as fakes and frauds. Whether by Xu or by the many MMA nut riders who either follow him or merely read about it in MMA news stories. Meaning that unless you train MMA or its constituent methods of boxing, wrestling, BJJ and Muay Thai, you're a fraud. Whether that's Xu's intention or not, I don't know.

Also, Xu himself is what, 40? There's not much future for him in actual MMA fighting, is there? The easiest thing for him to do to win fights and promote himself is to expose CMA frauds; or if not fraudulent, at least smaller, old(er) men who were never fighters to begin with. If not for these challenges, I doubt very many people would have even heard of him.

GeneChing

06-06-2019, 08:18 AM

Where Xu crosses the line for me is with GM Chen Xiaowang (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/index.php?p=magazine&article=64). I've met GM Chen on several occasions and he exemplifies what a Grandmaster should be. His skill and wisdom are incomparable. It annoys me that some of the articles put 'grandmaster' in quotes in their headlines. GM Chen deserves better. This kind of disrespect is uncalled for.

Now could Xu defeat Chen in a ring match? Probably. However Chen is 73. Xu is 41. We'll have to wait until 2051 to see if Xu ages as well as GM Chen.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/portrait_4/public/d8/images/2019/06/06/handout_18jan19_fe_xu16868_xu16868.jpg

Chinese crusader against ‘fake’ kung fu meets his worst enemy yet (https://www.inkstonenews.com/society/xu-xiaodong-chinese-mma-fighter-crusade-against-fake-kung-fu-faces-punishment/article/3013388)
Photo: Handout
by Chauncey Jung and Qin Chen

In a boxing ring in northwestern China last month, controversial mixed martial arts fighter Xu Xiaodong found himself up against a kung fu master who professed the ability to paralyze an opponent with the jab of his finger.

This mystical technique is sometimes called the “death touch.” But on May 18, touch was probably the last thing the kung fu master Lu Gang wanted.

Xu landed punch after punch to his face. Forty seconds and one broken nose later, the fight was over.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/2019/06/06/03.gif

Over the past two years, 41-year-old Xu has made headlines for winning bouts against self-proclaimed masters of kung fu, or Chinese martial arts, in unusually high-profile matches.

His challenge to old-school kung fu masters has been interpreted in China as an act of defiance against traditional martial arts.

By taking on what he calls “fake” maestros, Xu has angered powerful figures in the Chinese martial arts community and thrown into doubt the reputation of a prized tradition dear to officialdom eager to promote Chinese culture.

Most recently, he’s gotten into further legal trouble. Last year, Xu had been sued for defamation by a tai chi master whom Xu had accused of faking a win against a strength athlete in a televised match.

Xu lost the case, and was ordered to pay 416,000 yuan ($60,200) and publicly apologize on state newspapers, news websites and his own social media accounts.

Xu paid the fine but did not apologize for five months. As a result, in April, a court banned him from flying and booking premium hotels, a punishment meant to foster trust in society under China’s social credit system.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/660w/public/d8/images/2019/06/06/7763de2a-7dd1-11e9-8126-9d0e63452fe9_1.jpg?itok=BJMwoPF4
Chen Xiaowang (right), a tai chi master, sued Xu for defamation and won. Photo: SCMP/Tom Wang and chengxiaowang.com

The authorities have also banned him from self-promotion and ordered him to cover up his identity if he chooses to live-stream his fights.

That’s why when he took on the “death touch” master Lu Gang last month in Xinjiang, Xu adopted the alias Xu Donggua – literally “Winter Melon Xu” – and painted his face blue. But such is his level of fame, or notoriety, that his identity was clear to all.

But Chuanwang Zhou, a martial arts coach teaching Chinese kung fu in the US, said Xu and kung fu practitioners do not belong in the same ring.

“Martial arts is about developing a sense of honor and justice, character and spirit,” Zhou told Inkstone.

“Xu should go fight with other MMA fighters, not Chinese kung fu masters.”

Xu is clearly not listening. He first made a name for himself two years ago, when he knocked down a tai chi traditional practitioner in just 20 seconds. This prompted the state-run Chinese Wushu Association to issue a statement against the fight.

Citing the health benefits of practicing martial arts, which include self-defense and character building, the group said Xu’s fight was against wude, or the spirit of kung fu, and potentially illegal. It called on Chinese authorities to curb future fights.

A few days later, Xu’s account on China’s Twitter-like Weibo was suspended. The next month, his match with another tai chi master was interrupted by police in Shanghai, who arrested Xu for fighting without authorization, according to local media reports.

To evade growing censorship, Xu has tried to set up new social media accounts whenever his old ones were shut down. Footage of his fights is widely shared on YouTube, which is blocked in China.

To his fans, Xu’s fights amount to an overdue exposé of paper tigers and the weaknesses of kung fu in modern competitive fighting. But to his many detractors, he should continue to be punished for insulting kungfu, a source of national pride.

CHAUNCEY JUNG
Chauncey is a contributor to Inkstone. He is a China internet specialist who has previously worked for various Chinese internet companies in Beijing.

QIN CHEN
Qin is a multimedia producer at Inkstone. Most recently, she was a senior video producer for The New Yorker’s video team. Prior to that she was at CNBC, making short documentaries and writing about how technology shapes lives.

B.Tunks

06-06-2019, 04:44 PM

B.Tunks

06-06-2019, 04:48 PM

GeneChing

06-13-2019, 08:10 AM

I just copied some posts from our Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu) to a new thread - Wing Chun 'Master' Ding Hao (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71328-Wing-Chun-Master-Ding-Hao) - because the ol' WC subforum needs some luv...:rolleyes:

Wing chun ‘master’ Ding Hao challenges Xu Xiaodong to rematch – ‘he is afraid of my punches’ (https://www.scmp.com/sport/mixed-martial-arts/article/3012106/wing-chun-master-ding-hao-challenges-xu-xiaodong-rematch)
‘You’re lucky I didn’t KO you last time,’ says Ding Hao, who was obliterated in minutes by the Chinese MMA fighter a year ago
Ding also wants to fight one-armed boxer who delivered humiliating defeat to his ‘injured’ coach
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 3:07pm, 28 May, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/05/28/f362fbfc-810d-11e9-bda2-8286175bc410_image_hires_164519.jpg?itok=B0YjOfTz
Xu Xiaodong squares off with wing chun ‘master’ Ding Hao in 2018. Photo: YouTube

Those of you who have been following Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong’s mission to expose “fake kung fu” over the last couple of years may remember one of the beat downs he administered in particular.
In 2018, “Mad Dog” smashed Ding Hao – who bills himself as one of the “four great wing chun masters in China” – in a fight that went viral on Chinese social media.
It was an emphatic defeat for Ding, but now he has called out Xu for a rematch.
“Xu Xiaodong, do you still remember my fist?” he said in a video translated by Fight Commentary Breakdowns. “You’re lucky I didn’t KO you last time.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0PctOmPzC0

“I’m going to defeat you publicly and KO you,” he added. “If you’re afraid of failure, then admit defeat.”
Ding seems to remember things a bit differently from reality. He was spared an immediate humiliation by the Sanshou rule set used for the fight, which barred Xu from delivering ground and pound when he knocked him down. But the referee waived it off the fourth time Ding was planted on his backside. continued next post

GeneChing

06-13-2019, 08:10 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9YdSFS8Ejc

Still, that hasn’t stopped his bravado in challenging the 41-year-old Xu, who runs an MMA gym in Beijing and is on a mission to expose traditional martial arts “frauds”.
“Don’t send your students. You didn’t teach any of them,” Ding said. “You recruited them from competitions.”
“Xu, if you are a man, accept my rematch. Don’t lose to my punches again and say I sucker punched [you].”

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/05/28/20493478-810a-11e9-bda2-8286175bc410_972x_164519.jpg
Xiong Chengcheng punches wing chun master Yu Changhua. Photo: YouTube

continued next post

GeneChing

06-13-2019, 08:10 AM

Ding also called out one-armed Chinese boxer Xiong Chengcheng, who humiliated his shifu (coach) Yu Changhu – an Ip Man lineage wing chun master – at the same event in 2018.
“Xiong Chengcheng, you’re a wing chun failure,” Ding said. “You defeated my teacher because my teacher had an injury and the ref helped you.
“Even Xu is afraid of my fast punches. It’ll be like hitting a kid, so hide.”
Yu also made excuses for that fight, where he was dropped twice, giving an interview to Chinese media claiming the fight was rigged and that he wasn’t provided with enough lunch before the 8pm fight.
“We finished the food, we asked the server, ‘Is there any more?’ They said no, just this. We said, ‘OK, can you give us some rice at least?’ We didn’t feel full.”
Yu said that Ding has a really big appetite and eats three bows of rice. “You have to have entrees,” Yu added. “You can’t just give us soup, it’s not enough.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmue2xXS7ck

Yu said after they finished eating, they had to go to the supermarket to buy snacks because they weren’t full.
“I can’t say that it didn’t have an effect,” he said. “We didn’t eat the crackers we bought. I think I ate one chocolate.”

Wait...a one-armed Xiong beat his master Yu? Did we miss that story?

Jimbo

06-13-2019, 08:38 AM

Wait...a one-armed Xiong beat his master Yu? Did we miss that story?

Gene, not necessarily one-armed, but more like he held one arm behind his back. Check out the last photo in your previous post with the bald guy punching the guy in red.

GeneChing

06-13-2019, 08:57 AM

Gene, not necessarily one-armed, but more like he held one arm behind his back. Check out the last photo in your previous post with the bald guy punching the guy in red.

nevertheless...:rolleyes:

Jimbo

06-13-2019, 09:44 AM

nevertheless...:rolleyes:

Yeah...it actually makes it even more humiliating.

These kung fu guys have gotta stop it. The majority of the best TCMA people I've known already had considerable non-TCMA backgrounds and experience beforehand. Whether it was judo, karate, boxing, kickboxing, TKD, MT, wrestling, or any combination of those. It pays to have had plenty of sparring and/or fighting/competitive experience against people from outside of your school, and/or style/system, if you're intending to represent it. This strongly affects one's mindset, what is emphasized and how one is trained. If all someone does is 'play hands' within their own school, demonstrate fa Jing, and awe compliant students with applications, that won't cut it against someone whose entire focus is on fighting and whatever conditioning will enhance that. Simply 'playing hands' harder won't help. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

The fact is, technically, many TCMA concepts are brilliant. The concepts in the arts themselves are in NO WAY inferior to non-TCMA, but many practitioners simply haven't evolved with the times. Boxers no longer train like John L. Sullivan, who would have gotten his ears boxed off against any modern pro boxer. Practitioners from some TCMA styles, such as CLF, have competed successfully in the ring in interstyle competitions, but those individuals were actual FIGHTERS and they were prepared for the ring. They had a foundational base to work from. Of course there is more to MA than fighting; but if you're going to fight, then you must train and gain experience like a fighter, regardless of your style or system, TCMA or non-TCMA. Otherwise you're a turtle being thrown into the shark tank.

Nothing I've said here is original or unique, but it seems lost on so many of these kung fu guys making or accepting challenges. It's not whether someone wins or loses in competition, it's how one fights. Then even when a TCMA practitioner does fight effectively in the ring, there are always those detractors who say he doesn't look like the style at all, when in most instances all one needs to do is look a bit more closely. Yes, things do need to be adapted for in-ring competition; that doesn't mean it's always entirely absent. Sometimes it might be, but that's another story...

Just my .02.

Djuan

06-16-2019, 10:55 AM

booyah!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx-r2IvYoLc

..... maybe you, Xu Xiaodong, are rubbish!! ;) .......lets see Xiaodumb challenge Shi Yan Lei

GeneChing

06-17-2019, 07:33 AM

booyah!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx-r2IvYoLc

..... maybe you, Xu Xiaodong, are rubbish!! ;) .......lets see Xiaodumb challenge Shi Yan Lei

Yan Lei is mentioned a lot on our Shaolin Temple UK (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?41808-Shaolin-Temple-UK) thread in our Shaolin forum. I'm copying this from our Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu). Xu does seem to cherry pick his opponents.

Djuan

06-17-2019, 08:41 AM

Thats a good 'move' for fengg shui in general , I'm not giving mr. xu anymore attention, it was just right on time lol hearing Shifu Yan Lei say that about people who talk about TCMA or any MA as if they know or possess the holy key of all martial arts. Xus argument is really all for publicity/money, whos publicity, I dont know. I do know if you wanted to be a TCMA mixed martial artist, you could be. lol Shui Jiao/Chin Na/San Shou ....there you go, Bruce Lee could even be named the FIRST MIXED MARTIAL ARTIST, guess what his foundation was? TCMA, Wing Chun. :)

Amituofo

Jimbo

06-17-2019, 11:03 AM

GeneChing

06-18-2019, 02:29 PM

Xu Xiaodong only beat me because I’m vegetarian, says wing chun ‘master’ who compares himself to Bruce Lee
Lu Gang blames his diet for getting pulverised in less than a minute by Chinese MMA fighter
Pressure point master says he was ‘too skinny’ to fight as he only eats 20 meals per month
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 10:31am, 6 Jun, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/06/06/85412e22-87a3-11e9-a9bc-e8ed9093c066_image_hires_103055.jpg?itok=DhLTnX_r&v=1559788260
Lu Gang is blaming his malnutrition for his embarrassing defeat by Xu Xiaodong. Photos: YouTube

There seems to be something about food when it comes to martial arts frauds making excuses for the crushing defeats they are dealt by Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong.
Wing chun practitioner Ding Hao only got pulverised by Xu last year because he was hungry and wasn’t given enough rice before the fight, according to his shifu (or coach).
Now wing chun dim mak (pressure point) “master” Lu Gang is blaming his vegetarianism for getting obliterated by “Mad Dog” in less than a minute last month.
Never mind that Lu was knocked down three times and had his nose broken before the referee mercilessly intervened – it was just his constant fasting that threw off his game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3srSYkDpao

In a new posting on Chinese social media, Lu said he only eats around 20 meals per month – and because he is vegetarian he is chronically malnourished.
“I’m too skinny, I didn’t have enough mass to fight Xu,” Lu is quoted as saying in a translation by Jerry Liu of YouTube channel Fight Commentary Breakdowns.
Xu weighed around 100lbs (45 kilograms) more than Lu for the fight. But before the bout, Lu had said his wing chun techniques would be too much for Xu to handle, and that he could punch harder and faster than the 41-year-old.
“My speed is quicker,” Lu had said. He also claimed he was much more skilled and flexible than his opponent – and had even likened his skills to Bruce Lee.
“My dim mak has become completely part of me,” he said. “It’s like lightning speed, it’ll just come out. Just like Bruce Lee’s jeet kune do. A lot of times my dim mak, I don’t even know what I’m going to throw.”

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/06/06/0cf7736e-87a2-11e9-a9bc-e8ed9093c066_1320x770_103055.JPG
Xu Xiaodong’s hand is raised after beating Lu Gang – and breaking his nose.

YouTube commenters didn’t have much sympathy for Lu after his latest excuse, though, and many poked fun at him.
“I think this wing chun ‘master’ is a good example that ‘you are what you eat’ because at this point it’s obvious this guy is a vegetable,” one user wrote.
“Vegetarians, hell even vegans can put weight on,” said another. “I think the reason he lost is because HE CAN’T FIGHT.”
“The Wing Chun master just needed to eat some chicken fried rice and he would have been okay,” joked another user.

THREADS
Wing Chun 'Master' Ding Hao (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71328-Wing-Chun-Master-Ding-Hao)
ironfist view on protein, vegetarianism (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?6278-ironfist-view-on-protein-vegetarianism)
Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)

PalmStriker

06-18-2019, 03:00 PM

Jimbo

06-18-2019, 03:39 PM

:) I'm sure the broken nose impacted his way of thinking and delusions of grandeur. Sporting events are excellent venue for those who need such lessons in the laws of physics.* Also needs to take on a slab of ribs before his next bout.

This is true. Unfortunately, both Ding Hao and Lu Gang (and maybe even that first Taiji guy) are in full denial and will never admit they lost. Whatever personal growth they could have gotten from the experience has also been lost. So sadly, the lesson hasn't really been learned.

Djuan

06-18-2019, 11:35 PM

People have been "mixing"/combining/modifying martial arts systems/styles for centuries. Northern Tanglang (Mantis), Choy Lee Fut, Hung Ga, Kano's Jiu-Jitsu/Judo, Sh!to-ryu Karate, Hapkido, Kenpo/Kajukenbo, etc., are only a few of the countless examples of martial arts that came about due to mixing and combining at least two or more different pre-existing systems. Bruce Lee was NOT the first mixed martial artist, only the most famous.

I'm sure that virtually every "traditional" MA in existence has undergone (or is the result of) at least some degree of cross-pollination. But the sport of modern MMA has taken 'ownership' of the term "mixed martial arts," so that to them and most other people, "MMA" only refers to the combination of BJJ, boxing, Muay Thai and wrestling, and to a lesser degree including Judo, TKD, etc.

My first Karate teacher back in the 1970s was a "mixed martial artist", combining Kenpo Karate (already a modernized mixed art by itself) with western boxing, wrestling, Jujutsu, Kali/Escrima, and some CMA concepts into a very effective system (meaning, not just some disorganized hodge-podge of 'a little of this and a little of that'). We also trained/sparred with pro kickboxers and some former amateur and pro boxers, several of whom were also students/assistant instructors there. This predated the sport of modern MMA (at least in the US) by many years.

I agree totally, I'd say if you are a martial artist beyond one learning, meaning, the moment your art, or the art you learned, begins to have your own 'flavor' to it, you begin 'mixing' things you pick from every where, for instance, the calligrapher who began implementing brush stroke wrist maneuvers into their hand to hand combat, or the Mantis example, by the story, mantis was founded by mixingg movements of mantis in with other alreadyb present fighting skill, correct me if Im wrong, from what I know , that vaguely the story. We are all mixed martial artist in every sense of the word, with or with out the existence of the sport. I see Bruce Lee as the most popular exemplar of the "MMA" of today, the people who we can say combined the styles for the sport, today, took his blueprint for sure, coming out of that era, everybody was sticking to their root, he was breaking tradition in that time, the way he went about it.

for XU, its all for publicity I say, a big mess that does more distraction to the martial art community than it does good. who cares though and Im not complaining, lol we still have the WWE going strong and no one is blinking about it , so I suppose we have to let Xu have his spotlight. he's not hurting anything when you really think about it, TCMA could never be defaced, by anyone, great warriors, weak warriors, attention warriors, pension warriors etc.....doesnt matter at all

Amituofo

GeneChing

06-21-2019, 07:45 AM

Censored MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong says he’ll leave China to become an Australian citizen (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3015125/xu-xiaodong-says-hell-leave-china-and-become-australian)
Outspoken ‘Mad Dog’ says ‘all patriots are going abroad … long live China’
‘I’m learning from you, I’m leaving too,’ says Xu in sarcastic rant at Chinese actors
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 11:40am, 19 Jun, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/06/19/7fff73d2-923a-11e9-a6c8-8445313d8ede_image_hires_122502.jpg?itok=UhA_m8bA&v=1560918307
Xu Xiaodong delivers his passionate rant. Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

Outspoken Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong has said he wants to leave China and become an Australian citizen.
“Mad Dog” has made it his mission to expose fake kung fu over the past two years by pulverising fraudulent traditional martial arts “masters” – but his actions have drawn the ire of Chinese authorities.
In a bizarre video posted to Chinese social media where he is wearing some kind of medieval knight’s helmet, Xu railed against his treatment in his home country.
“I want to see how I can become Australian,” Xu said, according to a translation by YouTube channel Fight Commentary Breakdowns. “Apparently, I can only become a resident but I’ll try for Australian citizenship. You ask me why? Because I love my country. You understand? Because I love my country, so I’m becoming Australian.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr6gVr28YEQ

In a situation some observers have pointed out seems like an episode straight out of Black Mirror, Xu’s presence is being censored in China. He is disappearing from Chinese search engine listings, while he had to compete at his last fight – he broke a weedy wing chun practitioner’s nose in a one-minute beat down – with a demeaning nickname while wearing cartoonish face paint, under threat that the event would not otherwise go ahead.
Xu also had to take a 36-hour overnight train from Beijing to that fight in Karamay because of restrictions placed on him for his low social credit score – something earned for insulting tai chi “grandmaster” Chen Xiaowang.
Xu had been ordered by the courts to pay the self-proclaimed “world-renowned” Chen – who was born in Chenjiagou in 1945 but relocated to Australia when he was 45 – around 400,000 yuan (US$58,000) in damages, and publicly apologise on Chinese social media for seven straight days.
“I’m really going to Australia. I’m getting help,” Xu said. “The worst comes to worst, I’ll get adopted by an Australian father.
“I’ll copy Chen Xiaowang. Because I love China, I’ll get adopted by an Australian daddy.”

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/06/19/b8cb38a4-923a-11e9-a6c8-8445313d8ede_1320x770_122502.JPG
Chen Xiaowang is a ‘grandmaster’ in taijiquan. Photo: chenxiaowang.com

Xu’s latest rant seemed to have been inspired by the 2009 Chinese propaganda blockbuster Founding of a Republic – an epic made by state-owned China Film Group which marked the 60th anniversary of the Communist revolution and featured a cast made up of almost 200 of China’s best-known stars.
Xu said he was an “idiot” for watching the film. “Good going, Founding of a Republic,” Xu said, sarcastically. “Guo Degang was Chinese, the other 70 per cent were foreigners. Go look it up.”
The cast includes prominent Hong Kong actors such as Andy Lau, Leon Lai, Donnie Yen, Jackie Chan, John Woo, Sun Xing and Tony Leung Ka-fai. Jet Li, who is a naturalised Singaporean citizen, also stars in the film. continued next post

GeneChing

06-21-2019, 07:46 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bweod7Gfjew

“It’s all either Hong Kong or other nations,” Xu said, reeling off a list of actors in the film. “Is that funny? You love your country for long. You’re all patriots? American.”
Xu also brought up the Chinese news anchor Liu Xin of the state-run CGTN, who verbally jousted with Fox News reporter Trish Regan in a couple of televised debates. Liu is married to a German citizen of Turkish descent, with whom she has two Western-educated children.
“Her [Liu’s] husband is Turkish, her son is Turkish,” Xu said. “Is that funny? Is it sad? All patriots are Australian.”

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/06/19/603bc45a-923b-11e9-a6c8-8445313d8ede_1320x770_122502.JPG
Xu Xiaodong wears face paint for his last fight, for which he also had to use a demeaning nickname. Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

The 41-year-old also named a famous Chinese brand whose chairman he said has a Canadian passport.
“All Canadian,” Xu added, before listing more famous Chinese people he said had foreign passports.
“Tell me not to say nonsense. Everyone is leaving. I’m learning from you. I’m leaving too, because I love my country. All patriots are going abroad. ‘There’s no crime in being a patriot. Long live China’.”

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/06/19/75049f2e-923b-11e9-a6c8-8445313d8ede_1320x770_122502.JPG
Tian Ye after his battering by Xu Xiaodong in January. Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

Xu then made fun of famous kung fu actor and Wolf Warrior 2 star Wu Jing, impersonating his voice, and said he “uses a foreign phone” and “drives an American jeep”.
“You’re all fake – stop pretending,” Xu said. “When it’s time to step up, where will you be? Don’t mess with me. That includes Wu Jing’s people. Don’t pretend you’re someone big. I’ll talk smack about who I want.”
Mentioning another actor, Xu said: “Don’t mess with me, I’ll reveal all the dirt on you.”

Ever read Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day by Judith Viorst? This reminds me of that. :p

Jimbo

06-21-2019, 11:46 AM

Nicolas Atkin, the guy who wrote that last article, seems to be taking a rather disrespectful attitude towards Chen Xiaowang, calling him "self-proclaimed world-renowned." Now I don't personally have any stake in Chen Xiaowang or his MA one way or another, but the fact is, he IS world-renowned. He has been for a very long time. Care about him or not, he IS a very credible MAist and teacher, and rightfully may be called a master or grandmaster. Even though I myself feel dubious about the title grandmaster, if that's how Chen is referred to, then use it when referring to Chen, without the mocking quotation marks.

This Atkin guy appears to be lumping Chen Xiaowang together with the guys that Xu has beaten up. As Gene has said, Xu would most likely beat Chen in a bout, but there's over a 30-year age difference, too. That doesn't mean Chen's not 100% legitimate. It's clear that Atkin is not a MAist (unless maybe he's one of those MMA dabblers/hangers-on). Chen has probably been "world-famous" longer than this Atkin guy has been alive. Maybe Atkin should have done a little research before showing his ignorance.

Yoshiyahu

06-21-2019, 10:17 PM

Most Tai Chi Guys don't do anything other than push hands. With out sparring you never learn how to apply your sensitivity training in an realistic way.
Most training is aerobic at best. How ever sparring is like running fast or sprinting its anerobic. You working different strength and stressing different weaknesses. Of course with anything the first time you do something you will suck. Skill comes with practice. The key is to spar either light or heavy with non-compliant fighters you would readily encounter on the street, Not the same people with the knowledge of your style in your school.

When someone with no training and ton of fighting experiences meets someone with zero fighting experience and a ton of training the untrained experienced fighter will win most times. Because fighting has certain things that works and doesn't work. An when you fight alot you learn what that is.

mawali

06-23-2019, 07:09 AM

Jimbo

06-23-2019, 08:58 AM

"World famous" is not a criteria for the proliferation of a martial system. What is important is the skill and its enhancement with those who practice and 'revere' the art.
Chen Xiaowang has showed such in his travels.

That is true.

My point was that Chen Xiaowang is famous for good reason, and is not some fraud who only proclaims himself a world-renowned grandmaster. The tone of the article seemed to imply that because he teaches Taiji, (a "traditional" MA), and was targeted by Xu Xiaodong, that Chen's credentials are therefore suspect.

As I mentioned, I'm not a Taiji person (Yang, Chen, Wu, or otherwise); I have no connection to Chen Xiaowang or his MA, and therefore have no stake in the matter. But AFAIK, and from all accounts I've read over the years, Chen Xiaowang is 100% legit and has earned it, and not by defrauding his students.

Anybody has the right to question anybody. But it also behooves one to do at least the minimal amount of research before taking a dismissive tone about someone. Regardless of whether or not Chen could beat Xu in some match NOW, he is not in the same category as the guys that Xu has beaten down.

Arguments of style superiority and inferiority have gone on forever in the MA world (which is one of the reasons I no longer participate in the "MA world" and rarely even discuss MA at all anymore). But the current climate has gotten even worse, where dismissing all MAists as fakes and frauds because they don't practice or teach MMA or one of its four main arts/sports that comprise it, is now fully acceptable and has a much wider and louder platform, including (and especially) by ignorant people like that article's writer (and he's far from the only one).

As I've also mentioned, when I initially heard where Xu Xiaodong was coming from, what he said made a lot of sense and I was on his side. And much of what he's saying now may still be true. But his crusade overstepped its bounds when he openly disrespected Chen Xiaowang. It's crossed over into purely a-hole behavior, and the last thing the world needs right now is another a-hole.

GeneChing

06-25-2019, 08:20 AM

Let's see how Oz reacts.

Xu Xiaodong wants to countersue tai chi ‘grandmaster’ in Australian court by pursuing citizenship (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/mixed-martial-arts/article/3015723/xu-xiaodong-wants-countersue-tai-chi)
‘Mad Dog’ is looking for someone to sponsor him to become an Australian citizen so he can bring a case there against Chen Xiaowang
The outspoken MMA fighter had to pay nearly US$40,000 in damages and publicly apologise to Chen for accusing him of being a fraud
SCMP Reporter
Published: 6:29pm, 23 Jun, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/06/23/65dfbc28-94ce-11e9-a6c8-8445313d8ede_image_hires_182946.JPG?itok=CqTWgyhp&v=1561285790
Xu Xiaodong (left) had to publicly apologise to tai chi ‘grandmaster’ Chen Xiaowang (right) and pay him damages. Photos: Tom Wang/Twitter

Xu Xiaodong has said he intends to countersue the tai chi “grandmaster” Chen Xiaowang, who won a Chinese court case that forced him to pay damages last month.
The outspoken Chinese MMA fighter had claimed in a rant on social media earlier this week that he intends to move to Australia because “everyone is leaving China”. Chen relocated to Australia in 1990 having been born in Chenjiagou in 1945.
But he revealed there are further reasons behind his plan. “I want to acquire Australian citizenship, if I can find someone to sponsor and help me with that,” Xu told SCMP’s Inkstone over WeChat, China’s WhatsApp-like mega app.
“Chen’s tai chi is not real kung fu, it’s more for show. I think he’s promoting fraudulent information in China, so I want to acquire Australian citizenship so I can bring a court case against him in Australia.”
Chen brought the original case against Xu in a Beijing court for accusing him of faking a win against another fighter in a televised match.
Xu was ordered to pay a US$6,700 fine and to make a public apology, which he refused to do. That led to him being banned from flying, taking high-speed trains and booking hotels, among other restrictions, as part of punishments under China’s social credit system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr6gVr28YEQ

He eventually apologised, and the restrictions have been lifted, but he said he ended up paying around US$37,250 after legal fees and the cost of paying for a public apology to be placed.
Xu’s plans to move to Australia amid increasing censorship being placed on him in China. He said he wore a Spartan helmet in his online live stream where he announced his plans to leave China because he wanted to cover his face to evade online censorship.
He said his social media accounts get shut down more frequently if he doesn’t cover his face. He also had to wear face paint and use a demeaning nickname – “Winter Melon” – in order to have his last fight live-streamed.

That is true.

My point was that Chen Xiaowang is famous for good reason, and is not some fraud who only proclaims himself a world-renowned grandmaster. The tone of the article seemed to imply that because he teaches Taiji, (a "traditional" MA), and was targeted by Xu Xiaodong, that Chen's credentials are therefore suspect.

As I mentioned, I'm not a Taiji person (Yang, Chen, Wu, or otherwise); I have no connection to Chen Xiaowang or his MA, and therefore have no stake in the matter. But AFAIK, and from all accounts I've read over the years, Chen Xiaowang is 100% legit and has earned it, and not by defrauding his students.
Totally agree Jimbo. Putting 'grandmaster' in quotes is disrespectful and when CMA disrespects its elders, we are undone.

THREAD
Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
Grandmaster Chen Xiaowang (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?64008-Grandmaster-Chen-Xiaowang)

GeneChing

06-26-2019, 09:33 AM

I gotta agree with Xu on this one. 3 years? srsly? Lu Hang is coat-tailing. It's ironic when one viral ***** picks up baggage, like lamprey to a shark.

Anyone have access to Xu's 17 “fake” tai chi masters list?

Xu Xiaodong calls tai chi master a ‘cheat’ for backing out of ‘10 million yuan’ fight (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3016155/xu-xiaodong-calls-tai-chi-master-cheat-backing-out-10)
Master Lu Hang still wants to teach the Chinese MMA fighter a lesson – after he completes three years of training, which he plans to live-stream every day
Xu blasts the ‘shameful’ Yang-style taijiquan master for ‘using my popularity’ to make a name for himself on social media
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 4:30pm, 26 Jun, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/06/26/462cd736-97de-11e9-b82d-cb52a89d5dff_image_hires_164620.jpg?itok=zzsdN6dr&v=1561538785
One of Xu Xiaodong’s Weibo posts about tai chi master Lu Hang.

Xu Xiaodong has called tai chi master Lu Hang a “cheat” for backing out of a fight after offering the Chinese MMA fighter 10 million yuan (US$1.45 million) if he beat him.
Sichuanese Yang-style master Lu, who claims to be the No 1 martial arts fighter in China, said he still wants to teach Xu Xiaodong a lesson – but only after he has completed three years of intense training, which he plans to showcase on a daily live-stream.
“I think Lu is a cheat,” Xu told the Post. “He wants to become an influencer using my popularity.”
Their original beef came about after Xu posted to Chinese social media a list of 17 “fake” tai chi masters he had compiled, with Lu ranked at No 7.
Xu also shared a recording on his Weibo timeline of a phone call between the two, where Lu challenges him to a fight and says he would give “Mad Dog” 10 million yuan if he lost.
The 41-year-old Xu had told the Post last week that he and Lu were still discussing details for a fight date, but Lu appeared to back down in a lengthy statement posted on Toutiao, another Chinese social media platform.
Xu Xiaodong wants to countersue tai chi ‘grandmaster’ in Australian court by pursuing citizenship
Lu wrote that after he finishes three years of training, he plans on challenging all different kinds of martial arts masters from around the world, including Xu.
Xu wrote on his Weibo timeline that Lu should be fired or resign from his role in the Chinese Yang-style taijiquan general assembly after his comments.
“We are not competing for the length of wordings,” Xu added, poking fun at Lu’s Toutiao post. “Sorry, I can’t finish reading this, my eyes feel pain. Please tell me Lu Hang whether you want to fight or not, and when.”

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/06/26/1069596a-97e0-11e9-b82d-cb52a89d5dff_1320x770_164620.JPG
Xu Xiaodong had to wear face paint and use an alias for his most recent fight, where he broke wing chun master Lu Gang’s nose. Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

Users on Toutiao seemed to share Xu’s sentiment. “Write so much? Do you still have time to practice?” one commented on Lu’s post. “After reading it, I felt that tai chi gave my mind a stupid practice,” another said.
In another Weibo post earlier this month, Xu said Lu had invited him as a guest to his training room to take photos.
“Two days later, suddenly there was news on the internet saying I came to challenge Yang-style taiji master Lu Hang but lost, and after the fight we took photos together,” Xu said. “Using this kind of dirty little tricks, taijiquan is so shameful.”

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/06/26/07c165ac-97de-11e9-b82d-cb52a89d5dff_1320x770_164620.JPG
Xu Xiaodong wears a Spartan helmet to hide his appearance during a social media live-stream. Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

Xu told the Post that if he fights Lu he will need to wear face paint and adopt an alias again, as he did for his last bout against wing chun master Lu Gang.
The 41-year-old was billed with the demeaning nickname “Winter Melon” for that fight in Karamay last month, with organisers saying the bout could not be live-streamed unless Xu concealed his identity.
Xu also wore a Spartan helmet in one of his latest social media live streams, where he said he wanted to leave China and seek Australian citizenship. He said his social media accounts get taken down more frequently if his face is visible in his videos.

Inkstone’s Qin Chen contributed to this article.
This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as: Fight feud: tai chi master is a ‘cheat’

THREADS
Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
A Challenge (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?29936-A-Challenge)

GeneChing

07-02-2019, 08:14 AM

Kung Fu
Xu Xiaodong mocks ‘acupuncture master’ Huo Yanshan for ‘fake’ win over Chinese Sanda fighter (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3016982/xu-xiaodong-mocks-acupuncture-master-huo-yanshan-fake)
Huo Yanshan ‘beats’ supposed Chinese Sanda fighter with a comical blow to the chest – and gives him some acupressure karate chops to alleviate the pain
Chinese MMA fighter Xu challenges Huo to a fight so he can ‘defend the dignity of Sanda’
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 7:44pm, 2 Jul, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/07/02/e801f95c-9cba-11e9-baa5-dd214ed0de8f_image_hires_194446.jpg?itok=zoTP5xnC&v=1562067891
Huo Yanshan faces off against the supposed Chinese Sanda fighter – who flops to the floor in faux agony. Photos: Fighting World

Xu Xiaodong has mocked a “fake” kung fu practitioner, ridiculing Huo Yanshan as the “acupuncture master” after he won what clearly appears to be a staged bout in China against a supposed Sanda fighter.
Dressed in traditional martial arts attire but wearing boxing gloves for last weekend’s fight, Huo circled around the ring with his opponent before checking a couple of his kicks.
The “Sanda fighter” then flopped to the floor after one mighty chop to his left pectoral from Huo, and rolled around for a bit while clutching his upper body and grimacing slightly.
Huo danced around the ring celebrating while the commentators screamed in awe at his “knockout”, but our honourable master made sure to go back and check on his opponent – and this is where things got really silly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIwVzcY_NW0

Huo helped his opponent up to his feet with the Sanda fighter comically stumbling and shaking as his team tried to prop him up.
A member of his team then delivered some acupressure chops to his back to help alleviate the pain (even though he was hit on the chest).

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/07/02/d53b61ba-9cb9-11e9-baa5-dd214ed0de8f_1320x770_194446.jpg
Huo Yanshan gives his opponent some acupuncture to alleviate the pain as he is carried out of the ring.

Huo also helpfully joined in with some gentle acupuncture chops of his own as his stricken opponent was carried out of the ring.
It didn’t take long for Huo to start boasting of his momentous victory on Chinese social media, either.
“After my fight, many people requested a fight against me,” Huo said in a video. “I hereby state I would accept any of form of fight, provided it is going to be held on a reasonable and legal platform.”

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/07/02/7b41adfe-9cb9-11e9-baa5-dd214ed0de8f_1320x770_194446.jpg
Huo Yanshan fells his opponent with an almighty chop to the chest.

Well, as we know well enough by now, outspoken Chinese MMA fighter Xu doesn’t need a second invitation to challenge what he sees as traditional martial arts frauds.
“This chap is the disciple of Taiji cheater Chen Xiaowang – the so called acupuncture cheating master Huo Yanshan,” Xu wrote in a post on his Weibo account.
Chen is the taijiquan “grandmaster” who successfully sued Xu in the Chinese courts last month. Xu was ordered to publicly apologise and had to pay damages of around 400,000 yuan.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/07/02/ea168ea2-9cb9-11e9-baa5-dd214ed0de8f_1320x770_194446.jpg
Huo Yanshan’s opponent is helped to his feet by his team after his flop.

“I, Xu Xiaodong, will be the first one to go and fight against this fake master,” he added.
“I call for organisers from all over the world to contact me for the fight and also give me an appearance fee to support my living!
“I am not joking, a fight of any kind will do. Please contact me as I will wait for you. Xu Xiaodong will fight for the dignity of Chinese Sanda.”

THREADS
Xu Xiaodong (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
no touch knockdown in MMA (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?59345-no-touch-knockdown-in-MMA)
Acupuncture (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?2790-Acupuncture)

Chief_Suicide

07-03-2019, 07:47 AM

....definitely appears the other fighter is preparing to fall before he is even struck in the chest.

GeneChing

07-03-2019, 12:41 PM

Canadian wing chun master Pierre Flores wants to strike a blow for martial arts against Xu Xiaodong (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3017065/canadian-wing-chun-master-pierre-flores-wants-strike)
‘The way he does it is wrong. It is not right to assume all martial arts are fake,’ says Pierre-Francois Flores, who wins latest bout in less than a minute
The 43-year-old Flores caused stir in 2017 when he challenged Vietnamese kung fu ‘fraud’ Huynh Tan Kiet
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 2:41pm, 3 Jul, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/07/03/b41f7230-9d51-11e9-baa5-dd214ed0de8f_image_hires_144152.jpg?itok=_CixLWLN&v=1562136116
Pierre-Francois Flores (left) wants to fight Xu Xiaodong to get revenge for wing chun. Photos: YouTube

Outspoken Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong has been challenged by yet another wing chun master who says he is looking to defend the honour of traditional martial arts – but this one is Canadian and actually won a few fights.
Pierre-Francois Flores was in Hanoi last week and beat amateur fighter Luu Cuong under kick-boxing rules – though he was reportedly 12kg heavier than his opponent.
The 43-year-old caused a stir in 2017 when he competed in a full-contact bout with a local karate practitioner. The unsanctioned fight at a secret location was “in the spirit of friendship and martial arts”, according to his opponent, Doan Bao Chau, whom Flores dropped twice.
Flores had originally planned to travel to Vietnam to challenge Huynh Tan Kiet, the founder and “grandmaster” of Nam Huynh Dao. Flores believes Kiet is a fraud for claiming he can channel electricity through his body to perform martial arts – so in that regard he has something in common with Xu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqr_6y9aB5c

Xu has also made it his mission to expose “fake” kung fu – but Flores said Xu has made him angry and he wants to get revenge for wing chun.
Flores, who likes to promote respect between fighters, said he also wants to prove that the old traditional martial arts still have some values. continued next post

GeneChing

07-03-2019, 12:41 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9nKusOzZQ4

“I was the first to accept a match with him, and I made it clear in the press,” Flores told Vietnamese media. “There is nothing complicated here.
“Xu Xiaodong may not have known who I was two years ago when I ‘knocked on his door’. Now it all depends on whether he wants to open the door or not.
“The way he does it is wrong. It is not right to assume that all martial arts are fake,” Flores added. “That is the mistake of Xu Xiaodong. There are good and bad things, but you can’t equate them all.”
Flores’ latest win took less than a minute. It was determined Luu was unable to continue after a spinning back elbow.
“Thank you Luu Cuong for this exchange! It was really nice to exchange with you,” Flores wrote on Facebook.
Flores has also called for a fight with professional Vietnamese boxer Truong Dinh Hoang, who turned down the challenge because he is preparing for the Southeast Asian Games in the Philippines later this year.
“If anyone wants to organise my match with Flores and my entire ticket sales and remuneration, I will devote everything to charity,” Truong said. “Then everyone would be allowed to watch it properly. It benefits all people and society.
“Why do I talk about organising a decent match with ticket sales? Because there are so many people who want to see me and Flores fight. Why not have a good match, and still do many useful things for society?
“I’ve never tried to escape before. I am a boxer and my job is to fight.”

THREADS
Threats and Challenges (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?17738-Threats-and-Challenges)

Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)

Djuan

07-09-2019, 02:08 AM

ahh I'm starting to understand his purpose ..... :p

GeneChing

07-12-2019, 09:51 AM

I'm disappointed that there aren't more practitioners showing up on Xu's doorstep. I've had a few people submit articles 'answering' Xu with theory, but that's not the way. If anything, that just shows how out of touch those writers are.

We published a genuine challenge response two years ago, but it was never answered. See Tai Chi’s Nick Osipczak Answers Xu Xiaodong’s Defeat of Wei Lei (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/index.php?p=article&article=1361) by Andrew Judge

Mixed Martial Arts
Canadian wing chun master Pierre Flores turns up outside Xu Xiaodong’s gym in Beijing to issue challenge (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/mixed-martial-arts/article/3018180/canadian-wing-chun-master-pierre-flores-turns)
Pierre Francois Flores says the outspoken Chinese MMA fighter is a ‘brave warrior’ but is confident he can beat him
‘I am here to prove to Xu Xiaodong another version of wing chun’
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 4:21pm, 11 Jul, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/07/11/16c1eeec-a3a9-11e9-9a3c-98259c87fba2_image_hires_164823.jpg?itok=lPSjKl4c&v=1562834908
Pierre Francois Flores says he turned up at Xu Xiaodong’s gym to challenge the Chinese MMA fighter. Photo: Facebook/Pierre Francois Flores

Canadian wing chun master Pierre Francois Flores has taken things a step further in his bid to challenge Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong.
Flores flew from Vietnam to China this week and turned up outside the outspoken 41-year-old’s gym in Chaoyang District, Beijing. “Mad Dog” was seemingly not there, but that didn’t stop Flores, who wants to strike a blow for traditional martial arts against Xu, from talking some smack.
“He’s a very brave warrior, and I know him because I watch his training, he’s just like a lion,” Flores said of Xu. “But there’s a saying in Vietnam – before you get into the battle, know yourself, and know your opponent. When you do, you know the result of the battle.
“And I know Xu Xiaodong, and I know myself and I know what’s gonna be the result. That’s why I’m here. To prove to Xu Xiaodong there’s many other wing chun versions to face, and I am only one of the many.”
Two years ago, Xu issued an open challenge to all traditional martial artists after dishing out a brutal 10-second beating to the so-called tai chi master Wei Li, launching his mission to expose “fake kung fu”.
“I accept this challenge and that’s why I’m here,” Flores said. “Xu Xiaodong not only defeated Wei Lei, the tai chi master, but after he beat up many masters of wing chun.
“So wing chun has lost some credibility because of this, but you cannot judge because of a few bad apple masters a whole system.”
Xu’s actions and words have seen him censored in China where he has been delisted on some search engines and regularly has his social media accounts removed.
He also had his social credit score reduced to a D-level – banning him from travelling on high-speed transport, and from staying in star-rated hotels, among other societal sanctions.
Xu said these sanctions were lifted after he paid around 400,000 yuan in damages and issued a public apology for calling tai chi grandmaster Chen Xiaowang a fraud. But he wants to become an Australian citizen so he can countersue Chen there.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/07/11/ddc26a40-a3a8-11e9-9a3c-98259c87fba2_972x_164823.JPG
Pierre Flores and Xu Xiaodong. Photos: YouTube/Facebook

“Wing chun has existed for more than 300 years and wing chun is like a big family, a big tree with many branches. And my branch is from Vietnam, it is an orthodox wing chun branch, a Shaolin wing chun branch actually,” Flores said.
The 43-year-old Flores first caused a stir in 2017 when he challenged Vietnamese kung fu “fraud” Huynh Tan Kiet.
He instead competed in a full-contact bout with a local karate practitioner and has won other bouts with local fighters since.
“My master is Vietnamese, and he raised me like my father for more than 21 years. So his cause is my cause,” Flores said.
“I came here to wave the Vietnam flag, to represent this beautiful country and to show there is a big branch in Vietnam and I’m wearing this flag on my heart. I’m here to prove to Xu Xiaodong another version of wing chun.”

THREADS
Xu Xiaodong (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
Threats and Challenges (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?17738-Threats-and-Challenges)

Djuan

07-14-2019, 01:03 PM

how does Xu Xiaodong write his name in Chinese (traditional) ? 徐 or 續 ? (Xú) or (Xù) anyone know?

Djuan

07-14-2019, 06:30 PM

anyone know where he (Xu Xiaodong) or his family is originally from?

Djuan

07-15-2019, 06:19 PM

if Xu Xiaodong challenges traditional Shaolin, specifically, in those words, I will challenge him, all day. Only because we are blessed (to be able, and to bless those thru the culture worldwide) to protect Shaolin's integrity in battle. I'll leave it at that. Right here in the Bay Area, I know over 20 brothers alone, who will challege Xu Xiadong as well, its just not worth it for either party, unless he's going to get into some real MA work, and off of this hype he's on.
still, thought he's not worth, Im at least 7 years younger than him, and much smaller than him, if its thing of someone insulting Shaolin, by asking for a dishonorable challenge, it wouldnt disturb my Ch'an to accept that challenge. On GP. Just as the Wing Chun fighter stood up for true Wing Chun, if Xu Xiaodong starts directing his bullshxt at Shaolin, I'm willing to meet that, within the scope of him using his "western MMA style", and I will use pure Shaolin. I think thats fair, and as martial artist we can be mature about it, and try to restore some order and face to the ENTIRE Martial Arts community.
For instace, when people wanted to cash in and promot Yi Long as a Shaolin Monk, that was disturbing, and Shaolin stood up quickly and respectfully to denounce affiliation with Yi Long, and he honestly does more damage to the ignorant, than Xu Xiaodong, only because the meathead dojos love to point out an act like that to mock GungFu.
Either way, I'd challenge both of them if we can make it happen, tho I doubt Xiadong would respond, and its all publicity anyway, if by chance it became a real situation, I'd represent Shaolin wholeheartedly, and I know a lot of you would!
so dont be dissapointed Gene!!!! we will fight if it comes to it, TRUST.

Amituofo

GeneChing

07-22-2019, 02:46 PM

Xu Xiaodong accepts challenge of ‘tai chi idiot liar’ Fan Shuai Xin – ‘it’s the biggest martial arts scam in China’ (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3019442/xu-xiaodong-accepts-challenge-tai-chi-idiot-liar-fan)
‘Let’s see if tai chi is fake, or if you are fake … don’t make up excuses,’ says tai chi ‘champion’ Fan Shuai Xin
‘Mad Dog’ accuses Fan of faking the final of a martial arts competition against his master on Chinese television – ‘they play around on the stage’
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 5:13pm, 20 Jul, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/07/20/a3c4bade-aac7-11e9-862b-600d112f3b14_image_hires_175442.jpg?itok=EE2XZHUT&v=1563616487
Xu Xiaodong in an interview with Phoenix TV (left). Fan Shuai Xin challenges Xu on Weibo (right). Photos: Phoenix TV/Weibo

It looks like Xu Xiaodong might have his next fight lined up, with Chinese MMA’s “Mad Dog” accepting the challenge of tai chi “champion” Fan Shuai Xin.
Fan called out the 40-year-old – who likes to expose “fake kung fu” by beating up traditional martial arts masters he believes are frauds – in an interview with Chinese media.
“Winter Melon,” Fan said, using the demeaning alias given to Xu by the promoters of his last fight in accordance with China’s censorship of him, “I’m not a tai chi master, just a national champion.
“Until you defeat me, then you can’t talk smack about tai chi. Let’s fight a match and see if tai chi is really fake, or if you are the fake. I represent tai chi and challenge you. Don’t make up excuses and avoid this match.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2rp0ss6fYY

Fan, who said he has “never stopped” loving and promoting tai chi, added that he was too busy to call out Xu before because he is an “entrepreneur”.
“Those that use tai chi to promote themselves from obscurity should be ignored,” he said.
It didn’t take long for Xu to respond. “Let’s take a look at another tai chi idiot liar challenging me,” Xu said on his Weibo account, posting the video of Fan’s interview.
“It’s all show! It’s all fake! Liar! I told all of our team to accept your challenge! Please find the contact information of this child, we will find him to sign the contract!”
Fan is the apprentice of Chen style tai chi master Wang Zhanjun – who beat Fan in the final of a televised martial arts competition in China, the video of which Xu also posted on his Weibo.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/07/20/2725fe18-aac5-11e9-862b-600d112f3b14_1320x770_175442.jpg
Fan Shuai Xin faces off with his master Wang Zhanjun in the final of a televised Chinese martial arts competition. Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary

“This video must be watched!” Xu wrote. “I don’t know Fan Shuai Xin, the world champion of tai chi, but I said that I swear that as long as tai chi provokes me, I must kill it!
“The video is the final of the Chinese Wushu Championship. One is Fan Shuai Xin and the other is Wang Zhanjun. Wang Zhanjun is the master of Fan!
“Anyone who is a martial arts person can see that this is a fake boxing! A master versus apprentice fight, the apprentice loses, the master is champion. I accept this challenge, tai chi liar.”
Fan responded in kind to Xu’s Weibo posts, denying his martial arts is fake and criticising Xu for “the pursuit of your vulgar fame and fortune”.
Fan also mocked Xu for fighting Lu Gang – “who weighs only 100 pounds” – and took a swipe at his social credit score which placed restrictions on his use of public transport, saying “you can’t wait to sit on the green leather train to hit this person who weighs less than you”.
“And then taking the opportunity to smear traditional martial arts as fake,” Fan added. “You said that tai chi is a scam, but you dare not come to Chenjiagou to fight against Taijiquan … It is disgusting.”

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/07/20/c462af54-aac6-11e9-862b-600d112f3b14_1320x770_175442.JPG
Xu Xiaodong before his fight against Lu Gang earlier this year. Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

continued next post

GeneChing

07-22-2019, 02:48 PM

Fan fought an MMA bout a few years ago, but Xu responded by pointing out he himself is “the first person in China’s MMA” and that he organised the first Chinese men’s MMA competition in 2003 at Wanshou Road in Beijing.
“Some people have evidence, you are still nonsense, you are obviously shameless, you and your master’s martial arts finals, a false match!” he said. “It has spread around the world! Thank you for helping me expose your master Wang Zhanjun, a tai chi liar. I accept your challenge.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8_ZJQYboPQ

In another Weibo post linking to the video of Fan’s “fight” against Wang, Xu derided the final of the competition as “the biggest martial arts scam in China”.
“The organiser conceals the true identity of these two people,” Xu wrote. “Fan Shuai Xin’s opponent Wang Zhanjun is Fan’s master! Two people played the most fake game in China’s most authoritative TV station and the most authoritative martial arts competition!
“Fan Shuai Xin and the master Wang Zhanjun are performing in the whole game! They play around on the stage and in front of thousands of viewers on the TV.”

A lot of these fights are fake. For sure...

GeneChing

08-19-2019, 10:16 AM

Now Xu Xiaodong (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu) has chimed in on the Hong Kong protests (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?23536-Hong-Kong-protests). It's interesting on which side various Chinese celebs are landing...

Mixed Martial Arts
MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong speaks out in support of Hong Kong people amid anti-government protests (https://www.scmp.com/sport/hong-kong/article/3023389/mma-fighter-xu-xiaodong-speaks-out-support-hong-kong-people-amid?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1Velejuxwl215OwFB5V96rEYoJApVw9TK_X_T8j wPIu9Zw4cLrFyULPcw#Echobox=1566196183)
Controversial Chinese fighter suspects a smear campaign against the city
Users of an online Hong Kong forum say they would welcome ‘Mad Dog’
Chan Kin-wa
Published: 2:13pm, 19 Aug, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/08/19/f2481c88-c240-11e9-ad8c-27551fb90b05_image_hires_145942.JPG?itok=iBq0DDJZ&v=1566197988
Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong at his Beijing gym. Photo: Tom Wang

Controversial Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong has sent a message of solidarity with Hong Kong’s anti-government protesters, but said he hoped the city’s social unity would not suffer lasting damage from tensions arising from recent developments.
In online posts on social media platforms Sina Weibo and YouTube, Xu doubted whether mainland Chinese media reports on the protests had presented a clear picture of what was happening and many citizens seemed to believe the unrest was the work of gangsters and thugs, leading to some strong anti-Hong Kong sentiment on the mainland.
Xu cited the case of a mainland citizen who was beaten up by protesters at Hong Kong International Airport last week, saying he felt ashamed of the behaviour of the man, whom he believed had been trying to provoke the crowd.
The outspoken MMA fighter said he hoped a smear campaign was not being conducted and noted the importance of accepting the city was governed under the principle of “one country, two systems”.
He posted in his social media accounts that he would kick people he suspected of trying to divide the country and smear Hong Kong people out of his “circle of friends”. Isolated violent acts and extreme individual behaviour were not broadly representative of most Hong Kong people’s attitude, he said.
“Please let it be remembered, whatever Hong Kong people do, they are still part of our family,” he said. “Don’t be fooled by the evil power trying to turn Hong Kong people and Chinese people against each other.”
The Beijing-based fighter said Hong Kong was China’s “Pearl of the Orient” and the world’s top free-trade port, as well as being the home of some of the world’s top universities. He said he had been watching Hong Kong movies and listening to Hong Kong music since his childhood. “Don’t forget all the blessings from Hong Kong people to the victims in big natural disasters in China,” he said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORPINlorneE

Last week, Xu also expressed his sympathy to Hong Kong people in his first ever YouTube live broadcast.
“Hong Kong people are Chinese and I am also Chinese. That’s why I love Hong Kong people,” he said in the broadcast. “Someone asked me if I know what’s happening in Hong Kong and queried my right to make any comment. They may be right, but I want to ask why we don’t know what’s exactly happening in Hong Kong. Why?”
Xu’s comments were well received online.
In Hong Kong-based forum LIHKG, many users said they respected Xu, saying he was a brave person for speaking out and said the Beijing citizen would be welcome to emigrate to Hong Kong. However, there were also worries for his safety as the broadcast was closely monitored by the authorities.
Reports said Xu, who is a fierce critic of what he calls “fake kung fu”, previously had his social credit score lowered to heavily restricted “D” status in China following a court order. As a result, Xu was not allowed to buy plane tickets or train tickets.
He had the restrictions lifted after he eventually apologised but he said he ended up paying around US$37,250 after legal fees and the cost of paying for a public apology to be placed.

I guess Xu doesn't need to wear clown make-up anymore. That's too bad. I was rather enjoying that.

GeneChing

08-20-2019, 08:02 AM

This one is slightly OT for Xu Xiaodong (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu) because it's not him (he's only mentioned) but very 'on topic' for our Yellow/Black Jumpsuit thread (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?27596-Yellow-Black-Jumpsuit).

Of course, Tan Long was the name of Bruce Lee's character in Way of the Dragon (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?68546-Return-of-the-Dragon-aka-Way-of-the-Dragon). Anyone else notice the height difference between the 'fighters'? :rolleyes:

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/landscape_3/public/d8/images/2019/08/20/mma.jpg?itok=_VcNjdtZ&v=1566287414

SPORTS
Another Chinese MMA fighter knocks out ‘fake’ kung fu master (https://www.inkstonenews.com/sports/another-chinese-mma-fighter-knocks-out-fake-kung-fu-master/article/3023569)
Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns
by Nick Atkin

Chinese mixed-martial arts fighter Xuan Wu has followed in the footsteps of his friend and fellow MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong by knocking out a “fake” kung fu master – in 12 seconds.

Xu, 41, has made a name for himself in the past few years by winning bouts against self-proclaimed practitioners of kung fu, or Chinese martial arts, in high-profile matches.

His challenge to old-school kung fu masters was interpreted in China as an act of defiance against traditional martial arts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaGL99Gev2w

This time, the challenger was a man called Tan Long. He said he was representing the wing chun style of fighting. He was dressed in a yellow jumpsuit similar to the one martial arts icon Bruce Lee wore in the film Game of Death.

Tan had challenged Xuan Wu, a fighter name which translates to “Black Tortoise,” to the fight in a trash-talking video on social media, saying he would put up 1 million yuan.

The fight took place in a boxing ring in early August in the middle of a shopping center in Yinchuan, capital of the Ningxia autonomous region in northwest China.

According to footage of the fight, Tan threw a half-hearted flying jump kick at the start of the bout before running away.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/660x385/public/d8/images/2019/08/20/xuan_wu.jpg?itok=K4-mHZRR
Xuan Wu chases Tan Long, dressed in the yellow jumpsuit in homage to Bruce Lee, across the ring. Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

Xuan Wu quickly cornered his opponent against the ropes and threw a right high kick to stun him, followed by a left high kick to the head which sent Tan to the canvas and ended proceedings.

Xuan celebrated wildly, performing a standing backflip in the ring, all while Tan continued to lie flat on his back on the ground.

At Xuan’s last fight, the outspoken Xu had watched from ringside as he beat another supposed wing chun master, Li Feng, at a shopping mall in April.

In that fight, which was bare knuckle with only wraps, Wu used just his left arm and left leg to easily beat the wing chun fighter.

Nick Atkin
Nicolas is a contributor to Inkstone. He is a production editor on the South China Morning Post's sport desk and was previously a sports writer for ESPN.

GeneChing

08-22-2019, 03:09 PM

Chinese authorities question MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong over Hong Kong protest comments (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/mixed-martial-arts/article/3023924/chinese-authorities-question-mma-fighter-xu?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1tb7X6Y_7YJl-ARK2RhE5sm9-Kka7wE44aEwCYV1cyahPnd8g4_Pl3ztY#Echobox=156646515 0)
MMA fighter says authorities visited him at his Beijing home after Twitter post supporting Hong Kong people
‘Mad Dog’ is worried about deviating from official mainland view on Hong Kong but wants to exercise right to speak freely, citing Chinese constitution
SCMP Reporter
Published: 4:52pm, 22 Aug, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/08/22/8f4f8250-c4ad-11e9-ad8c-27551fb90b05_image_hires_182057.jpg?itok=vNqRihTo&v=1566469261
Xu Xiaodong has been censored in China. Photo: Weibo
MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong has said Chinese authorities visited him at his Beijing home and questioned him about his views after his comments on social media about the Hong Kong protests.
While famous Chinese actors like Jackie Chan and Liu Yifei, as well as other public figures, have criticised anti-government demonstrations amid nationalist fury, the controversial “Mad Dog” spoke out in support of Hong Kong people.
Last Monday, state-run news agency Xinhua called protesters “rioters”, saying they had created “black terror” after a weekend of violent clashes. But Xu – who has been censored by authorities in China for exposing what he calls “fake kung fu” – said he suspected a smear campaign against the city.
“You can’t call all Hongkongers rioters. Can you call all 7 million Hong Kong residents rioters? Can you call 2 million demonstrators rioters?” Xu told SCMP’s Inkstone.
“Hong Kong is a member of our family. We should love and protect Hongkongers, and stand in unity with them. There are no rioters in Hong Kong, only unlawful individuals,” he added.
Xu said he was worried about deviating from the official mainland Chinese view on Hong Kong, where protests have stretched into an 11th consecutive week, but wanted to exercise his right to speak freely, citing the Chinese constitution.
Xu Xiaodong’s friend and fellow Chinese MMA fighter knocks out Bruce Lee wannabe in 12 seconds
In his Twitter comments, the fighter wrote that Hong Kong was China’s “Pearl of the Orient” and the world’s top free-trade port, with quality higher education including some of the world’s top universities.
He also praised the city’s entertainment industry, saying he had been watching Hong Kong films and listening to Hong Kong music since his childhood.
“Don’t forget all the blessings from Hong Kong people to the victims in big natural disasters in China,” he said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORPINlorneE

Last week, Xu also expressed his sympathy to Hong Kong people in his first YouTube live broadcast.
“Hong Kong people are Chinese and I am also Chinese. That’s why I love Hong Kong people,” he said in the broadcast.
“Someone asked me if I know what’s happening in Hong Kong and queried my right to make any comment. They may be right, but I want to ask why we don’t know what’s exactly happening in Hong Kong. Why?”
China orders Xu Xiaodong to publicly apologise and pay damages for insulting tai chi ‘grandmaster’ Chen Xiaowang
Xu has previously had his social credit score lowered to heavily restricted “D” status in China following a court order. As a result, Xu was not allowed to buy plane tickets or high-speed train tickets, among other restrictions.
He had the restrictions lifted after he eventually apologised but he said he ended up paying around US$37,250 after legal fees and the cost of paying for a public apology to be placed.
Inkstone’s Qin Chen contributed to this article

THREADS
Xu Xiaodong (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
Hong Kong protests (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?23536-Hong-Kong-protests)

Djuan

08-22-2019, 05:05 PM

lol he should move to the states, then he can accept all the lovely invites he has waiting out here. :)
as they all wait.... (https://images.app.goo.gl/Lwu6kA8Z6G2TBFbx5) :)

Djuan

08-28-2019, 05:53 PM

(as much as I want to see this thread dissapear, I had to say this :p)

after learning about Shi Deru training Cung Le, this made Xu's argument even more retarded, and now his fights seem more suspect. every reputable school in Dengfeng has San Da along with taolu and traditional training.

somebody needs to send Xu xiaodong to Dengfeng and arrange him a proper challenge with a wuseng or disciple thereof around his age. just for sport and integrity, can we make this happen? if the community will allow charlatans to call bluffs and put on circus acts, ones cant complain that media or the MA world has a distorted outlook on traditional CMA.

we would love to see justice and harmony, and we shouldnt allow people to just talk out of their necks, and promote their garbage jut because it was filmed. there are PLENTY of traditional fighters who can serve Xu an answer, and he doesnt even have to travel west.

I get that no one takes him serious, to a degree, I also know some of you share the same perspective / sentiment that I do, and agree that he should get a proper answer. I dont like people making WWE scenarios out of any type of "KungFu" or TCMA. I dont get why this fight isnt happening.
lol even Yi Long, in my opinon, can beat Xu Xiaodong , and that fight would make money on base fact of there "extravagant" reputations. Though I'd rather see someone physically qualified, his age, and most important who has actually trained at Shaolin or been trained by real Wuseng.

just my thought on it. if he really wants a fight, he should get it.

Amituofo

GeneChing

09-25-2019, 08:00 AM

I'm surprised the PRC hasn't Bingbinged (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70896-Where-in-the-world-is-Fan-Bingbing) Xu yet.

AUG 19
‘There are no rioters’: Chinese fighter breaks ranks to defend Hongkongers (https://www.inkstonenews.com/society/xu-xiaodong-says-hong-kong-protesters-are-not-rioters-he-was-invited-tea/article/3023448)
Photo: SCMP/Tom Wang
by Qin Chen

Over the past week, nationalist fury has enveloped China’s internet, prompting actors, musicians and other public figures in the mainland to criticize the continuing anti-government protests in Hong Kong.

Against this backdrop, outspoken Chinese mixed martial arts fighter Xu Xiaodong has bucked the trend by speaking up for Hongkongers on social media.

On Sunday, Xu, who has controversially made a name for himself by challenging what he calls “fake” kung fu masters, wrote on Twitter that Hong Kong is a world-class free market with quality higher education and a robust entertainment industry.

He condemned some violent clashes between protesters and police as illegal acts that must be punished according to the law. But, he added, those were individual cases and should not be amplified to drive a wedge between Hongkongers and mainlanders.

徐晓冬北京格斗狂人
@Xuxiaodong3
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECNTHkpUcAAqqJo?format=jpg&name=smallhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECNTHkqUIAAZzMt?format=jpg&name=small
1,403
4:11 PM - Aug 17, 2019
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“You can’t call all Hongkongers rioters. Can you call all 7 million Hong Kong residents rioters? Can you call 2 million demonstrators rioters?” Xu told Inkstone.

“Hong Kong is a member of our family. We should love and protect Hongkongers, and stand in unity with them. There are no rioters in Hong Kong, only unlawful individuals,” he added.

Xu’s remarks pit himself against increasingly tough rhetoric in state-run media calling for the Hong Kong unrest to be put down by force.

Last Monday, China’s official news agency Xinhua called the protesters rioters, saying they had created “black terror,” in reference to their black T-shirts. This happened after a weekend of violent clashes.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/660x385/public/d8/images/2019/08/19/scmp_18aug19_ns_rally02.jpg?itok=_sogfL5a
Millions of protestors attended a peaceful rally in Hong Kong on Sunday afternoon. Photo: SCMP/Dickson Lee

One of the movement’s main demands is for the Hong Kong government to withdraw the use of the word “riot” in relation to protests. Anyone found guilty of rioting faces a maximum of 10 years in prison.

Xu told Inkstone that after posting about Hong Kong on Twitter, he was visited at home by the authorities and questioned about his views.

Sunday marked the beginning of the 11th consecutive week of protests in Hong Kong. The movement began in June against a now-suspended extradition bill, but it has evolved into a wider call for greater democracy and protecting Hong Kong's civil liberties.

Xu did point out that Hong Kong is part of Chinese territory and said China should honor the “one country, two systems” framework underpinning its relationship with Hong Kong.

His supportive comments about Hong Kong put him squarely at odds with the larger nationalist movement, which went into overdrive in mainland China last week after a Chinese journalist was beaten and tied up by protesters at Hong Kong’s airport.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/2019/08/19/01.gif
In 2017, a video of Xu knocking out tai chi master Wei Lei in 10 seconds went viral.

Xu is best known for exposing what he calls “fake” kung fu masters in high-profile matches.

His outspoken challenges to the martial arts establishment have previously have brought him lawsuits.

But the possible consequences don’t seem to hold Xu back from speaking his mind on contentious issues.

When asked if he was concerned about deviating from the official mainland Chinese view on Hong Kong, Xu said he was worried but wanted to exercise his right to speak freely, citing the Chinese constitution.

Qin Chen
Qin is a multimedia producer at Inkstone. Most recently, she was a senior video producer for The New Yorker’s video team. Prior to that she was at CNBC, making short documentaries and writing about how technology shapes lives.

THREADS
Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
Hong Kong protests (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?23536-Hong-Kong-protests)

GeneChing

10-03-2019, 08:59 AM

He Never Intended To Become A Political Dissident, But Then He Started Beating Up Tai Chi Masters (https://deadspin.com/he-never-intended-to-become-a-political-dissident-but-1838706430)

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--gprMVVws--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_1600/rcnwtjesjj58ffycoxjg.png
Illustration: Benjamin Currie (G/O Media)

Lauren Teixeira
39 minutes ago

On a recent Thursday evening in August, a 40-year-old MMA gym owner in Beijing named Xu Xiaodong activated his VPN, hopped over the Chinese government’s internet firewall, and began his first-ever live YouTube broadcast. He wanted to talk about the ongoing protests in Hong Kong, in which hundreds of thousands of citizens have demonstrated against mainland China’s attempts to circumvent Hong Kong’s autonomy and civil liberties. Xu looked into the camera and took a stance on the protests that few, if any, of his countrymen living on the mainland were willing to publicly take: “Hong Kong people are Chinese. I am Chinese. So I love Hong Kong,” he said. “I don’t believe that there are so many violent thugs there.”

Word of Xu’s broadcast spread rapidly throughout the Chinese-speaking world. It was moving to many in Hong Kong, who have found people from the mainland to be publicly unsympathetic at best, and viciously hostile at worst, to their struggle. The comments section under the YouTube video soon flooded with support and praise for Xu’s bravery.

Xu’s livestream didn’t go unnoticed by the Chinese authorities, who had been using Chinese state media to portray the Hong Kong protestors as members of a rabid, violent mob. Four days after the livestream was posted, state security showed up at Xu’s apartment and took him in for questioning.

Xu wasn’t fazed by this development. He’d already spent several years getting used to living under the watchful and punitive eye of the Chinese government while becoming, somewhat by accident, one of the country’s most famous dissidents. But the government’s constant attention hadn’t previously been drawn by any fiery political statements. Xu would be the first to tell you that he’s more of a troll at heart than political rebel, and he’s become a target of the state for reasons that are much more fitting of his personality: He likes to talk ****, and he likes to fight.

Since 2015, Xu has been the director, producer, and host of a lively one-man martial arts talk show called Brother Dong’s Hot Takes that he self-distributes via his various social media accounts. Each episode features Xu speaking, sometimes quite passionately, about whatever is riling him up that day. One recurring bit that initially gained Hot Takes a cult following was Xu’s profanity laced call-outs of “fakes,” or pianzi, in the Chinese martial arts world.

These callouts were inspired by what Xu calls a “bad wind” of fake tai chi masters penetrating the national consciousness. This was largely thanks to government intervention. Traditional Chinese martial arts (wushu), and tai chi in particular, are a core component of what President Hu Jintao called in 2007 the “great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation.” Since rising to power in 2013, President Xi Jinping has redoubled efforts to promote and spread “traditional Chinese culture”—which includes tai chi as well as traditional Chinese medicine (TCM)—through a battery of subsidies, policy interventions, and good old-fashioned propaganda. Last year, it became mandatory for students in southeastern China’s Fujian Province to prove mastery of 24 tai chi moves in order to graduate from high school. Only a few months ago, state mouthpiece People’s Daily announced the establishment of the “People’s Tai Chi Development Alliance,” which purports to be aimed at making tai chi “fashionable” for young people and showcasing the accomplishments of Chinese civilization to the world.

Meanwhile, grandmasters from across China’s martial arts schools were called on to hype up tai chi in the media. In a 2013 program called The Showdown Show, the famed 12th-generation Chen-style tai chi master Wang Zhanhai showed how he could harness his energy to fling off four musclebound attackers in a single movement. On another episode of the show, the 76-year-old pressure point (dianxue) master Zhang Zhenling showed up a group of skeptical, strapping young kung fu students by causing one to double over in pain with a single touch to the ribs. (Zhang then cured the humbled student by touching a pressure point in his neck.)

Xu was unimpressed by all of this. In early 2017, he started honing in on the young Yang-style tai chi grandmaster Wei Lei, who had recently come to national attention thanks to a CCTV-4 program called Real Kung Fu, in which Wei was featured performing such feats as turning the inside of a watermelon into mush without penetrating its skin and keeping a live pigeon perched on his hand from flying away through a personal force field. Xu called Wei Lei “brainwashed” and “a *******.” In retaliation, Wei Lei, or one of his associates, published Xu’s personal information, including his address and phone number online. Xu, enraged, flew to the southwestern city of Chengdu, where Wei is based, walked into the tai chi master’s gym, and demanded they fight right there on the spot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XwXaCbfIGw continued next post

GeneChing

10-03-2019, 09:00 AM

Only several dozen people were present at the fight, which took place in the gym’s crowded basement, but a video uploaded the next day was seen by millions. In the video—which has since been scrubbed from the Chinese internet—Xu, bare-knuckled in shorts and hot pink sneakers, squares off against Wei, bare-knuckled and clad in a traditional tai chi outfit. After a tense couple of moments, Xu lunges forward and pummels Wei with a flurry of jabs. In less than 10 seconds the tai chi master is flat on the ground, covering his face with his arms.

Xu’s defeat of Wei Lei is now remembered as an earth-shaking event within the Chinese martial arts world. It made him a minor public figure and gained him a legion of new fans, as well as an extensive roster of enemies. According to Xu, more than 100 martial artists looking to avenge Wei challenged him in the aftermath of the fight. Xu took out a pencil and paper, ranked his challengers in order of priority, and set about in earnest on his now-famous quest to “fight fakes” (“fake” and “battle” are ****phones in Mandarin). As of this writing, Xu has fought 17 of those challengers in public matches. He has defeated them all.

Because of the lack of infrastructure or regulations for such unconventional matchups, the fights often have a DIY vibe, with no ring or gloves in sight. On several occasions, Xu, who hovers around 200 pounds, has faced off against men half his size. His victories have not always gone officially recognized. After Xu’s most recent fight, in which he willingly ate a flurry of limp strikes from Wing Chun master Ding Hao before beating him bloody in front of a crowd of hundreds, the announcer declared the match a draw and concluded, “Whether it’s MMA or Chinese wushu, we can all agree that this is a victory for Chinese kung fu!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuusqWtgak0

These past two years have been the most prolific in Xu’s fight career. Up until the Chengdu match with Wei Lei, Xu had fought in only three paid matches, all in the early 2000s. From 2004 onwards, Xu—who is, by his own admission, a mediocre fighter at best—devoted his energies to developing China’s nascent MMA industry from behind the scenes. He opened his own gym, Bitu, in which he coached MMA and emceed a popular amateur fight promotion called “Fridays.” Soon enough, Bitu had opened another two locations. Business was good. The only reason he went back to fighting, he says, is that Wei ****ed him off.

“If I don’t like someone, I fight them,” Xu told me the first time we met, in an empty sports bar in July. “It’s really that simple.”

Xu had rushed to the nearby city of Tianjin that day to sign a contract to fight his 18th grandmaster, Wang Zhenling of the Great Dao school of tai chi, and missed our first appointment. He apologized profusely. It was a muggy summer night, and he was sporting his signature tank top and goatee. He does not drink. Over ginger ale, he gravely recounted his “war” against tai chi. Only a glint in his expressive eyes suggested that he understood how plainly silly it was to be fighting in such a war.

Xu is a born and bred Beijinger, a fact he references often. When he gets excited, his speech slurs with the lisping Beijing dialect. His happiest early memories are of visiting his grandmother at her job as an attendant at the National Museum, which faces out onto Tiananmen Square. He remembers clearly the day in 1989 that the tanks rolled in. Xu says growing up in Beijing made him uniquely attuned to politics.

As a teenager, Xu started studying sanda, or Chinese kickboxing, the only Chinese martial art he regards as having any combat value. (Shichahai Sports School, the training center near the Forbidden City where he once practiced, has since publicly disowned him.) Around the turn of the millennium, he discovered mixed martial arts, which was trickling into China at the time via overseas returnees. He immediately latched onto MMA because of how free he found the fighting style: You could kick. You could hit someone when they were already on the ground. “I like freedom,” he told me emphatically.

Which is the root of Xu’s problems. The Chinese government would really like for him to stop his war against tai chi. As of this writing, Xu has been ordered to publicly apologize; had to pay the equivalent of USD $36,000 in fines and legal fees; had his social credit score lowered after he refused to apologize, preventing him temporarily from traveling by plane or high-speed train; had one of his gyms shut down; and seen a total of 11 social media accounts mysteriously disappear.

Despite all of this, Xu has continued to do exactly as he wants. When he was prohibited from flying, he took a 36-hour, hard-seat train all the way to Karamay, Xinjiang, in far western China, to fight the Wing Chun master Lu Gang (Xu wore clown makeup to the fight, a pre-condition, he says, for being allowed to participate). And with no way of broadcasting Hot Takes on Chinese social media, he started recording the show and sending it to a friend in America, who uploads it to YouTube.

Xu sees the continued production and dissemination of Hot Takes as a moral imperative. He becomes emotional when he talks about it. The reason he must keep broadcasting, he says, is very simple: He is telling the truth. continued next post

GeneChing

10-03-2019, 09:01 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Oe1vmkcn8

“What this show tells is priceless,” he told me—thinking, perhaps, of the increasingly dire financial straits his crusade against tai chi is putting him under (he is currently searching for a new apartment because he can no longer afford the rent on his current one). “If you gave me a million RMB to stop the show, I would say, ‘No.’ If you gave me 10 million RMB to stop, I would still say, ‘No.’ If you gave me 100 million RMB to stop”—here he took a beat to grin—“I would say, ‘Okay.’”

Xu Xiaodong’s gym is located in a basement facility in the middle of a parking lot in Shuangjing, an upscale residential district near Beijing’s East 3rd Ring Road. His clients are well-off hobbyists, mostly men, who come to train for fitness purposes. Every so often, an incensed tai chi master shows up at the gym’s door to challenge Xu in person, an occurrence that took Xu’s fellow trainers by surprise the first time it happened.

I visited the gym in mid-August, and despite Xu’s rapidly complicating political situation, the place bore no reflection of the turmoil that had befallen its figurehead. During a boxing class, students took two-minute turns sparring with trainers. No one seemed particularly worried about Xu. I spoke to an eight-year veteran of the gym, a plump and genial man surnamed Wang, who happened to work for CCTV, the state broadcaster. Wang said that while he did not support the violence, he was fundamentally sympathetic to Xu’s quest. “Otherwise, young people will continue to believe in these fakes,” he said.

When I entered Xu’s office he glanced at me conspiratorially and motioned me over to look at an icon on his phone. It was a VPN. I asked him why, after abstaining for so long, he had finally started using one.

He told me recent events had caused him to conclude he would never be on the right side of the law in China, no matter what he did. Not long after he signed the contract to fight Wang Zhenling, his 18th tai chi grandmaster, relevant authorities informed him that the match, or any future matches, would not be allowed to take place. This should be illegal, Xu noted angrily, but his lawyer friend had advised him that in China, the law is essentially “whatever they say it is.” And so, Xu figured, he had nothing more to lose by taking the extra step of hopping the firewall.

“What makes me angry,” he added, “is that I’ve been very careful. Everything I’ve said has been true. If I had been lying to people, sure, I can accept punishment. But I’ve said nothing wrong. I can’t understand this.”

As someone who has been living and reporting in China for five years, I was caught off guard by Xu’s belief in the power of truth and sincerity. Although he was fully cognizant of the fact that there were things he could say that would have him disappeared tomorrow—that the ruling Party had inflicted and continues to inflict grievous human rights violations on the population such as the concentration camps in Xinjiang, and that the State relentlessly censors reports of said atrocities—he never discarded the notion that the truth had some value.

Such a belief is something that’s become almost impossible to hold onto in China, where the truth has long since ceased to matter. The week I went to meet Xu at his gym, the Party had pivoted its policy toward coverage of the Hong Kong protests from the usual program of suppression to an all-out disinformation campaign. State media organs blared with reports of protester violence and a secret CIA plot. These reports left out the disproportionate brutality being inflicted by the Hong Kong police, and that a protestor had lost an eye to a bean bag round.

“What makes me angry,” he added, “is that I’ve been very careful. Everything I’ve said has been true. If I had been lying to people, sure, I can accept punishment. But I’ve said nothing wrong. I can’t understand this.”
After we discussed his plans to livestream on YouTube that night, it was time for Xu to pitch his MMA class to a crop of prospective students. In a matter of seconds I watched him transform from the laconic, somewhat sullen man I had just interviewed into the charismatic personality I recognized from Hot Takes. He talked without pause for the next 45 minutes, weaving together a pocket history of MMA with heavy doses of autobiographical narrative and thoughts on everything from Bruce Lee to yoga. More than a dozen students listened attentively and laughed along with his jokes and exaggerated pantomime.

Watching Xu give his spiel, I thought about something he had once told me about his ambition for Hot Takes to one day become China’s “No. 1 most courageous sports talk show.” In a different place or time, Xu could easily be a titan of the sports entertainment industry. It’s easy to imagine someone with this much wit, passion, and intelligence hosting a slickly produced sports show from behind a desk. But all Xu can do in his current situation is go on smuggling his low-fi episodes of Hot Takes past firewalls and dodging government authorities who would like to see him cast out onto the street.

What really stings Xu is that he doesn’t stand to benefit from the coming expansion of MMA in China, which he worked for so long to bring about. This summer, the UFC opened a state-of-the-art training facility in Shanghai in a bid to mint a Chinese MMA star who would help the promotion win over the Chinese market. This plan already seems to be succeeding: At the third UFC China in Shenzhen this August, 30-year-old female strawweight fighter Zhang Weili triumphed over Jessica Andrade to become the first ever Chinese UFC champion. Xu, a huge UFC fan, told me he was thrilled with Zhang’s victory and the entrance of UFC into China, but he has not been called on to help promote it. He said that at the two previous UFC events in China, he paid full price for front row tickets—almost $1,000 USD—because UFC did not personally invite him.

A few hours after I left him that day at the gym, Xu went home and made the live YouTube broadcast about Hong Kong that would get him taken in for questioning. His message began in a tone of half-ironic grandeur: “It is I, Xu Xiaodong. The Xu Xiaodong who overturned heaven and earth two years ago.” Next, he thanked the state censorship organs monitoring him for their troubles. Then he said his piece about Hong Kong.

By international standards, Xu’s views on Hong Kong are extremely moderate. He does not support Hong Kong independence and regards Hongkongers (and Taiwanese for that matter) as Chinese. Yet in the dissent-paranoid environment of today’s China, publicly expressing skepticism that the reality on the ground in Hong Kong may differ from how it has been depicted in state media is tantamount to betrayal. Indeed, only one other mainland public figure has dared to express the same doubts as Xu: A 33-year-old lawyer named Chen Qiushi, whose earnest “fact-finding” broadcasts from Hong Kong—now scrubbed from mainland social media, along with his personal Weibo account—have put him in the same precarious position as Xu. continued next post

GeneChing

10-03-2019, 09:02 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUpGBc4e37Q

Chen and Xu have developed something of a partnership over the past several months. They recently did a photoshoot together, at Chen’s suggestion, in which the two men wore suits and mugged suavely for the camera. Xu shared the photos on his social media along with a still from the 2016 South Korean action thriller Train to Busan, which featured Gong Yoo as the handsome hero and Ma Dong-Seok as his coarse but honorable accomplice. “Korea has Ma Dong-Seok,” Xu wrote in his caption, “and China has me.” (In one of his most recent dramas, 2018’s The Villagers, Ma plays a washed-up former boxing champion who reluctantly roots out a dark political conspiracy in his small town.)

Aside from Chen, Xu has few allies; people know that publicly speaking up for someone like Xu is enough to put them or their families in danger. In a recent episode of Hot Takes, an upset Xu revealed that not a single person had stood up for him in a 450-person WeChat group after his Hong Kong statement. Still, a sizable but anonymous contingent of fans from China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and across the diaspora have come together to help him financially. After Xu learned he would no longer be able to fight in matches for money, he finally started accepting donations from his supporters (he had previously rejected a 50,000 RMB donation from a wealthy fan) on PayPal and WeChat. Xu told me that over the past month he has already received several thousand dollars, most from donations in the range of five to ten dollars.

Earlier this month, Xu announced another way supporters could help to relieve his hurting finances. He had become the ambassador for a new Brother Dong-branded line of baijiu, a fiery Chinese sorghum spirit. The liquor purports to be 42.7-percent alcohol, a reference to his April 27 defeat of Wei Lei. “I don’t drink, but I visited the baijiu factory and I think the quality is good. Plus, it’s very manly to drink baijiu,” he said by way of endorsement on a recent Hot Takes. In the comments, fans announced their plans to buy multiple cases.

There’s an unmistakable whiff of pro wrestling surrounding Xu’s entire project. Part of this is down to the fact that he can deliver monologues like a seasoned heel; part of it is because, for as seriously as he takes his fights against tai chi masters, there’s a slapstick quality to each of them. There’s just something inherently funny about watching an aging, chunky MMA fighter stride right up to a supposed martial arts master and proceed to beat the absolute hell out of him.

Of all the absurdities that have recently defined Xu’s life, none are seemingly greater than the fact that he, a loudmouthed fighter and entertainer with objectively modest political views, has become a real symbol of dissent. But perhaps that’s not so absurd. In modern China, the simple act of being brash and unapologetic can be enough to qualify one as a true rebel.

Though the majority of Xu’s YouTube commenters come from Hong Kong and Taiwan, a vocal minority are firewall jumpers. Below his videos, they articulate the most subversive implications of his mission to fight fakes. “Beat up Xi,” reads a typical one. “The Communist Party are the greatest scammers of all,” reads another.

It’s even more common for commenters to simply see his tenacity as a ray of light piercing an increasingly dark political climate: “As long as China has people like you, China has hope.”

Xu balks at such appraisals. He believes it’s Chen, the young lawyer, who’s China’s future. As he put it in a recent episode: “Don’t pin your hopes on me. I’m just a dog drowning in a pile of dog****.”

Lauren Teixeira (@lrntex) is a writer based in Chengdu, China.

"Brother Dong-branded line of baijiu"? From someone who doesn't drink? :p Hope someone can find some of this baijiu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?60794-Bai-Jiu-(Moutai)), just for laughs.

GeneChing

11-08-2019, 09:04 AM

Kung fu ‘master’ says sorry, backs down after Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong accepts challenge (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3036896/kung-fu-master-says-sorry-backs-down-after-chinese-mma)
Fifth generation iron palm master Sun Lei tells ‘Mad Dog’ he will break his arm – ‘I’ll show you real Chinese kung fu’
Xu dares Sun to put up 200,000 yuan and fight him in Beijing, but Sun backtracks – ‘I hope you let it go maturely’
Nick Atkin
Published: 3:01pm, 8 Nov, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/11/08/b2123f56-01ef-11ea-ab68-c2fa11fa07a6_image_hires_150100.jpg?itok=lTsYt489&v=1573196467
Iron palm kung fu master Sun Lei (left) challenged Xu Xiaodong (right), and swiftly backed down. Photo: Photo: YouTube/Weibo

Xu Xiaodong has been challenged by plenty of kung fu “masters” but they don’t normally back down before he makes them eat their words in the ring.

So it was rare to see one such challenger give a sincere apology to the Chinese MMA fighter.
Fifth generation iron palm kung fu master Sun Lei issued his challenge to “Mad Dog”, calling him out in a recent video on Chinese social media.

“Xu Xiaodong, you recently are always talking smack about Chinese kung fu and iron palm kung fu. I am gonna challenge you,” he said, in comments translated by YouTube channel Fight Commentary Breakdowns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjQmhpYez10

“I will hit your arm and let you see how good my iron palm is. Do you accept my challenge? Let’s find a spot and I will show you. Let’s see if I can break your arm with my iron palm. I want you to understand real Chinese kung fu.”

Xu is never one to shy away from a challenge, and it wasn’t long before the video was brought to his attention.

“You said I made fun of or insulted you, what did I do?” he said in his own video. “I’ve never insulted iron palm kung fu. You dumb brain. I accept 200,000 yuan – if you hurt me you keep it, if you don’t hurt me I keep it. It’s in Beijing, let’s do it. So don’t back out.
“When did I talk smack about iron palm kung fu? All I want to do is attack tai chi,” he added. “But now these iron palm people want to talk smack about me. He’s a fraud, this stupid Sun person. I accept.

“If you can’t break my arm, you give me 200,000. Prepare the money. I’m ready for you in Beijing. I will find you. I want this money. Everybody, here’s a record. Go find him. When did I insult you ever? I want to let certain frauds go but they decide to come to me.”

It looked like Xu might have his next fight set, but, surprisingly, Sun then said sorry in a follow up video.
“I am officially apologising to Xu Xiaodong,” he said. “I’m sorry, it’s my fault. I said some things, I hope you let it go maturely. This is my apology. Please forgive me. I will support you in the future. Sorry.”
Xu accepted the apology. “I hope everyone in the marital arts world don’t listen to random rumours and slanderous advice,” he replied.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/11/08/2906700a-01f0-11ea-ab68-c2fa11fa07a6_972x_150100.png
Sun Lei apologises to Xu Xiaodong. Photo: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

“If you have any concerns please contact me, I will explain everything to you. I want to fight the fake masters.
“I hope all people in the martial arts community communicate with me. A lot of times you’re being misled by other people who spread rumours. This incident is formally ended, please don’t mention it again.”

THREADS
Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
Iron Palm (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?6071-Iron-Palm)

GeneChing

11-21-2019, 08:28 AM

Two kung fu ‘masters’ demolished by Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong battle each other (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3038760/two-kung-fu-masters-demolished-chinese-mma-fighter-xu)
Lei Lei and Tian Ye go at it to decide who the better kung fu fighter is
Both men were previously pulverised by ‘Mad Dog’ on his mission to expose ‘kung fu fakery’
Nick Atkin
Published: 4:28pm, 21 Nov, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/11/21/c2157042-0c32-11ea-afcd-7b308be3ba45_image_hires_162800.png?itok=Ui06u1CN&v=1574324890
Tian Ye (right) winds up a punch against Lei Lei. Photos: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

It was probably inevitable that two of Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong’s vanquished “fake kung fu” opponents would eventually square off against each other. But that doesn’t make it any less entertaining.
In what turned out to be a fairly one-sided battle, Lei Lei and Tian Ye recently went at it to see who was the better kung fu fighter.
You may remember Lei Lei – he was the tai chi “master” who sparked “Mad Dog” Xu’s rise to fame after getting knocked out by him in 10 seconds.
The video of that 2017 fight went viral and set Xu on his mission to “expose” traditional martial arts “frauds”, sparking this entire mess of kung fu versus MMA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPtPOKBuEd0

Earlier this year, Xu got into the ring with another kung fu “master”, Tian Ye – whose name translates as “Mighty Sword” – and left him bloodied and bandaged with a severely broken nose.

When it came to his two vanquished foes squaring off, Xu predicted Lei Lei would win because he has more power in his punches, despite admitting Tian Ye has plenty of heart.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/11/21/2b27d4c2-0c32-11ea-afcd-7b308be3ba45_972x_162800.png
Tian Ye gets dropped by Lei Lei in the first round.

It turned out Xu’s prediction was bang on the money.
The two men came out of the gate throwing haymakers and Tian Ye – much older than his opponent at 56, with Lei Lei in his 40s – got knocked down after just seven seconds of the first round.
Tian Ye got back to his feet, and Lei Lei – his nose bloodied – started throwing some knees from the clinch, showing he has actually been training some real techniques since his humiliation by Xu.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/11/21/dc9d6c86-0c31-11ea-afcd-7b308be3ba45_972x_162800.png
Lei Lei hits Tian Ye with a Muay Thai knee in the clinch.

Lei Lei then sent Tian Ye stumbling again, this time into the referee, who did a standing count as he instructed Lei Lei back to his corner. After getting the doctor to clean up Lei Lei’s nose, the referee resumed the fight.
It didn’t last much longer. Lei Lei staggered Tian Ye with a few more punches and the referee stepped in to wave it off after a total of 64 seconds.
Tian Ye pleaded with the referee, saying he could still fight, despite stumbling backwards as Lei Lei cockily strutted around the ring, celebrating his victory.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/11/21/603ef8ec-0c33-11ea-afcd-7b308be3ba45_972x_162800.png
The referee pushes Tian Ye away after he tries to punch Lei Lei after the fight has ended.

Lei Lei’s bravado seemed to get to Tian Ye – either that or he really was badly concussed and thought the fight was still on.
With the bell having long gone, Tian Ye launched another punch at his opponent before the referee grabbed him and pushed him into the ropes.
The referee delivered a stern lecture like a teacher to a schoolchild, finger wagging and all.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/11/21/0a6b790a-0c32-11ea-afcd-7b308be3ba45_972x_162800.png
The referee lectures Tian Ye after he throws a punch at Lei Lei following the end of the fight.

“The ref was probably the best fighter in that ring judging by how he was able to completely shut down Tian Ye with that clinch towards the end … And I'm only half joking here,” wrote one user in the comments of a video of the fight, which was posted by YouTube channel Fight Commentary Breakdowns.
“I think Lei Lei showed at least some improvement, but he still has a long way to go,” was another comment.
“Lei Lei is so cocky now,” wrote another user. “I’m sure he will take his revenge on Xu one day … Maybe … Probably not. But it would be very cool!”

THREADS
Tian Ye (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71308-Tian-Ye-56-year-old-Kung-Fu-loser)
Xu Xiaodong (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)

GeneChing

11-25-2019, 09:13 AM

Hey, Xu actually fought someone with some ring experience...

Wait...cosplay (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?65633-Cosplay)er?

Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong knocks out Japanese cosplayer; wants ‘fake Shaolin monk’ Yi Long (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/mixed-martial-arts/article/3039039/chinese-mma-fighter-xu-xiaodong-knocks-out)
Xu gets second-round TKO against former kick-boxing champion Yuichiro Nagashima in Bangkok
‘Mad Dog’ now hopes to fight Yi Long, whom he accused of rigging fights against Nagashima
Nick Atkin
Published: 12:56pm, 23 Nov, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/11/23/bdb3098a-0da7-11ea-afcd-7b308be3ba45_image_hires_125622.png?itok=D0wR4nAV&v=1574484991
Xu Xiaodong fighting Yuichiro Nagashima in Bangkok, Thailand. Photos: YouTube/Fight Commentary Breakdowns

Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong returned to the ring on Friday in Bangkok, Thailand, but this time it wasn’t a kung fu “fraud” he pulverised – it was a famous Japanese cosplayer instead.
Yuichiro Nagashima, a former kick-boxing champion who is also trained in karate, had fought several times against the “fake Shaolin Monk” Yi Long, and “Mad Dog” Xu had claimed the fights were rigged.
Xu wanted to prove he could easily beat Nagashima, so that Yi Long would have no excuses for evading a fight with him.
The first round was contested under kick-boxing rules, the second under MMA rules. Xu won by TKO in the second round, the referee stepping in as he delivered some heavy ground and pound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0HU_i2YVXI

It was a different story to Xu’s usual fights – the 41-year-old has made a name for himself by demolishing traditional martial artists in China on what he deems as his mission to expose “kung fu fakery”.
But Nagashima has fighting technique, unlike the hapless wing chun and tai chi practitioners Xu has knocked out in devastating fashion over the past three years. Nagashima was K1Max 70kg champion in 2010, although he has not won a fight since 2014.
Xu looked sharp in the first round, throwing some smart combinations, but Nagashima caught him on the chin with his jab a couple of times early on.
The fight was then briefly stopped after a low blow by Xu.
Xu’s power was clearly superior and his plan was evident as he looked to counter. It worked to perfection, Xu distracting his opponent with a low kick before going high and knocking down Nagashima with a hard right hook.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/11/23/592be062-0da8-11ea-afcd-7b308be3ba45_972x_125622.png
Xu Xiaodong walks off after the referee steps in.

Nagashima looked weary heading into the second round, and for good reason – he was entering Xu’s territory now.
Within seconds, Xu dropped Nagashima again and quickly proceeded to full mount, raining down blows before the referee stepped in.
Ironically, it is the first time Xu has actually been able to take things to the ground in one of his fights, and he showed off his skills in ruthless fashion.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/11/23/031f0ec4-0da8-11ea-afcd-7b308be3ba45_972x_125622.png
Xu Xiaodong backstage after his win in Bangkok.

Over to you, Yi Long. The Shaolin Temple has made a statement that Yi is not a trained monk, but he models his appearance on traditional Shaolin monks in his fights, with a shaved head and traditional clothing.
“The fake Shaolin monk is not exactly a pushover. Xu may have a real fight on his hands,” one commenter said on a video of Xu’s fight, which was posted on YouTube channel Fight Commentary Breakdowns.
“Let it be said if Xu fights Yi Long in a kick-boxing match he’s getting knocked out,” another user wrote.

THREADS
Yi Long (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?57515-Shaolin-fighter-Yi-Long)
Xu Xiaodong (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)

Jimbo

11-25-2019, 09:59 AM

IMO, Xu Xiaodong will probably KO Yi Long, or at least beat him handily.

Djuan

12-02-2019, 12:20 AM

Xu Xiaodong vs Yi Long is cool lol in a Stone Cold Steve Austin vs The Rock in 1998 kinda way. Yi Long is always entertaining theres another guy named 'Tai Gu Lei Long' supposedly on the Chinese version of TikTok (Douyin) calling out 'fake Kung Fu masters' also and has some mediocre fights circulating.

heres a video: in my opinion all these fights are pointless, the MMA (wannabe) guys should get into a real league like the hundreds available (:confused: isnt MMA the fastest growing/paying combat sport?) instead of doing these circus fights. I feel like some Japanese Dojo lord is paying these dudes to shame Kung Fu lol its really a bad look for all martial arts when you think about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHyIGbus5o0

Put them in a real league and let them grow , other than that I personally cant get into this stuff , its cheap attention grabbing noise, while there are some real talents fighting in San Shou in China we dont hear about, also some nice pro and semi pro fighters in ONE Championship, RIZIN, Bellator etc....so many good and great fighters all through China, Japan, Thailand, Burma, etc....loads of fighters.

all these leagues and they are picking on 'fake masters' for the love of Martial Arts? tuh......

10773

(somebody sign Xu Xiaodong up and let him get busy forreal , earn some real stripes.)

ALSO the whole "fake kung fu master" bit is played out as well. There are fake jujitsu, aikido, karate, ninjutsu, so on and so on, even fake boxing and muay thai and wing chun JKD guys, which I dont know how you fake that lol point is, we know they exist, so what, lol. we can all beat them duh. There are tons of REAL masters however. so if someone really had a problem with REAL kung fu.....why not look for a REAL MASTER? RIGHT? idk man....common sense stuff. Xu would have been better coming out the gate challenging young or close in age warrior monk from Shaolin, who trains everyday. Like anyone who has a face and there are so many smh :eek: why does he avoid the entire "Yan" generation of Shaolin fighters, who are known for whoopin ass? maybe because they are known for whoopin ass.
anyhow, .....I rambled and must digress.

Amituofo

Jimbo

12-02-2019, 02:21 PM

Djuan

12-02-2019, 06:39 PM

Djuan,

I seriously doubt that any Japanese sensei is or are behind this trend to discredit kung fu. Many Chinese themselves have little respect for TCMA. When I lived in Taiwan, the number one most popular MA was Tae Kwon Do, by a wide margin. I’d even heard some Chinese in Taiwan refer to kung fu as “hua quan xiu tui” (flowery fist, embroidery leg). Or many there associated the practice of TCMA with gangsters, and considered TKD, as well as JMA, to be ‘clean’ and organized in comparison.

OTOH, at the time, there were a number of Japanese students from Japan that I either knew or simply met there who trained TCMA and were more serious about it than most of the Taiwanese/Chinese students themselves were. And some of them were very good at it. In my experience, the whole ‘Fist of Fury’ image of the evil Japanese MAists trying to discredit, oppress and destroy TCMA/TCMAists, is a fiction, especially in the context of modern times.

well in reality, I have faith theres no one , especially real Japanese martial artist, going through exact and large means to stain TCMA, and my joke in the thread was aimed more at the "Samurai Sho Nuff vs. Kung Fu Bruce Leeroy" rivals from hollywood, even the "Dojo invasion vs. Chin Woo" etc....I used that model of an example because thats how ridicculous thesee fights and arguments from Xu Xiadong are, in his case he would be the 'Samurai Dojo Lord' lol or MMA dojo lord, let him tell it lol

I honestly would like to see him fight a real fighter who trains pure TCMA, and there are plenty.

B.Tunks

12-11-2019, 05:32 PM

well in reality, I have faith theres no one , especially real Japanese martial artist, going through exact and large means to stain TCMA, and my joke in the thread was aimed more at the "Samurai Sho Nuff vs. Kung Fu Bruce Leeroy" rivals from hollywood, even the "Dojo invasion vs. Chin Woo" etc....I used that model of an example because thats how ridicculous thesee fights and arguments from Xu Xiadong are, in his case he would be the 'Samurai Dojo Lord' lol or MMA dojo lord, let him tell it lol

I honestly would like to see him fight a real fighter who trains pure TCMA, and there are plenty.

XXD’s not staining TCMA. The idiots he’s beating are the stains, if anything.

Where are these plenty of ‘real fighters’ who train pure TCMA, and what is pure TCMA?

Don’t get me wrong. Like you, I love TCMA. I’ve been training approx. 40 years, about 35 years of that specialising in TCMA, including several years of training under many different masters in China. In all that time I have seen very few of these people you are talking about. Some, yes. Plenty, no. And in the ring, very few at all, unless their style has a combat sports stream (but that might not meet your definition of pure TCMA).

Can TCMA produce extraordinary humans? Yes. Does it frequently, or even generally, produce ‘real’ or great fighters? Quite honestly, no. There are some, but let’s not fool ourselves - they are in the minority. Who cares though? That should only matter if one makes such claims. Unfortunately most of these deluded idiots stepping up to get beat down have made such claims so they get what they deserve.

Djuan

12-15-2019, 12:29 AM

Where are these plenty of ‘real fighters’ who train pure TCMA, and what is pure TCMA?

.

in all fairness, no one can stain TCMA, and in this thread, anything serious said is not to be taken seriously.
so I have to agree with you on the staining part, and the bozos he's fighting really are ONLY staining themselves.

To answer your questions and attempt to give the thread some justice, "Pure TCMA" , is totally up to preference, meaning I personally can only define what it means to me like most radical, one sided opinions. In a basic scope though, "Pure" would denote, absence of anything imported from outside recorded Chinese fighting tactics during the time of formation for the base styles, like say, kempo (fusion), or karate (Japanese), anything mixed with those wouldn't be 'PURE' TCMA, even tho karate is old and traditional like a lot of TCMA, and Kempo is based on TCMA.

Traditional means, to me, arts that were formed and had evolved to systems prior to the end of the Qing Dynasty, particularly the time of the Xianfeng Emperor. I use this time span, from about the Norrthern Wei Dynasty around 450, to Qing around 1861, Still, thats not fair to a lot of systems with lineage linked to styles ad families which predate the Qing Dynasty, and vanished because of political persecution, and resurfaced in modern times. Also a lot of historians and martial historians will disagree with my time span, stopping whats deemed as traditional more around the early 1700's , I keep counting because a lot of the Southern schools flourished and developed deeper into the Qing dynasty, some going into the 1900'S. Too many to list. Some will also argue that the best fighters stopped existing before the 1800s...smh :confused:
So the 'traditional' title is a bit flexible, using intelligent discernment however. I will say, a lot of the 'Elder' styles that were formed in feudal times, were battlefield tested. You have the hand vs weapons skills which is spectacular, for instance fist vs. spear, even staff vs sword. stuff like this is timeless and priceless. and then rendered useless to a degree when Europeans made the gun the war standard.
so lets not forget HOW "western" boxing/mma made room for itself; by going to face the worlds greatest warriors with gun power, diminishing the morale over the course of hundreds of years of invasion and oppression, by the gun, and building a capitalist world that honors the 'gladiator' venue, pushing martial arts into 'combat sports' and the "best" fighters are meat heads for hire.

moving again to thinking critically about TCMA you are dealing with advanced combat systems with a growth spanning thousands of years of warfare and peace. for example; the "bodyguard era(s)", the northern "pirate era", the southern "pirate era", and the boxer rebellion era, all have written accounts of TCMA being deadly and acutely effective, so to shun them off as useless is ignorant. Also these eras forged the styles into what they are today, by demand. Where as MMA was built for sport, and to be regulated, TCMA, was forged in the fire.
The problem with TCMA and modern MAist is patience. Kung Fu just takes too long to master to them, much less compete for big money. There a major generation gaps in the distribution of TCMA, and yoou have entire lineages being wiped out by the gun or forced into 'ritual training' or performance arts. TCMA is a real thing, and we can prove its worth easily, so I wont hold you.

now to be serious about where all the fighters are is hard lol, I'm really tempted to just say they are hidden in ancient temples spread through out China, and only come out to help the warriors and ninjas travel the Jiang Hu roads. They are banned from fighting publicly for fear they might enter the avatar state. Their Ch'i levels are tooo high etc.....

when I spoke about the fighters, realistically, a lot of them are in SanDa, and some already compete, so I have to be fair in my explanation because that's not what XXD is looking for. he's not looking for Chinas top San Shou or MMA guy, which is what I was sarcastically suggesting; that he goes against the top SanDa fighter with Traditional roots in North or South Shaolin, and get pummeld, ;) or enter a MMA/Kickboxing league to compete in, because beating the old self proclaimed masters is pretty low and cheap, almost as much as those masters claims.

Theres thousands of SanDa fighters in China who are pretty decent, and who started with what can be called TCMA for sure.

Amituofo

Jimbo

12-15-2019, 08:45 AM

Even though many TCMA are indeed brilliant in concept, they still need to be adapted for the ring if they are to be contested in this manner, When I lived in Taiwan, I was friends with (and sometimes trained with) Lei Tai/Sanda fighters from the Taiwan team, and also with a couple heavyweights who visited periodically from the French team, one of whom was a well-known champion in the sport at the time. They all had TCMA backgrounds, but their fighting in Lei Tai/Sanda was adapted for that style of competition and not “pure” TCMA. Besides TCMA, they all had backgrounds that also included TKD or karate, at least some western boxing, and at least some Muay Thai as well.

This is not to say that TCMA is inferior; but to fight with it in a ring or cage requires it to be specifically adapted and trained for that purpose. Which means training workable skill sets from whichever TCMA it is that ARE within the rules and that can be applied naturally under pressure against experienced fighters who are using MMA or boxing/kickboxing. There are TCMA skills that might work brilliantly in some contexts that would either be forbidden in sport, or would simply be ineffective in a competitive setting. That’s not a knock on TCMA, but it’s where things stand right now. Similar to the way Lyoto Machida adapted his Shotokan karate into MMA. Some people said that isn’t Shotokan, but anyone who is truly familiar with Shotokan can see it in his style; but he had to adapt it and combine it with BJJ and other common skill sets of MMA. One must “know the enemy (opponent) and know one’s self.” Watching lots is fight tapes alone isn’t enough.

IMO, the really effective skills of TCMA that are adaptable into sport fighting shouldn’t take years upon years to apply. The most effective skills used under pressure in any case are usually simple, or fairly simple in execution. TCMA need not be overly complex in application to be high-level TCMA. But it has to be incorporated and trained properly, and the practitioners need to gain real experience to represent in the ring against fighters who are training for the ring all the time. Otherwise, the same thing will continue to happen. If the ‘masters’ who have been squashed in the ring haven’t been doing that; if all they’ve been doing is practicing some traditional applications, playing hands and sparring mostly with awed students and yes-men and thinking they were ready to represent, then they are the ones tarnishing the image of TCMA in the public eye. They’re going to have to “do the work” and take it seriously, and not expect to be like Ip Man in the movies. Anyone representing needs to actually get into proper physical and mental fighting condition, and gain experience under pressure against experienced strangers under ring/cage conditions. And preferably not someone who is 50-something years old, but someone who is young, talented, truly motivated, and with a good, experienced training team behind him who knows how to build up his ring experience to get him up to the proper level. That (and more) is what it’s going to take.

B.Tunks

12-15-2019, 06:09 PM

B.Tunks

12-15-2019, 06:41 PM

in all fairness, no one can stain TCMA, and in this thread, anything serious said is not to be taken seriously.
so I have to agree with you on the staining part, and the bozos he's fighting really are ONLY staining themselves.

To answer your questions and attempt to give the thread some justice, "Pure TCMA" , is totally up to preference, meaning I personally can only define what it means to me like most radical, one sided opinions. In a basic scope though, "Pure" would denote, absence of anything imported from outside recorded Chinese fighting tactics during the time of formation for the base styles, like say, kempo (fusion), or karate (Japanese), anything mixed with those wouldn't be 'PURE' TCMA, even tho karate is old and traditional like a lot of TCMA, and Kempo is based on TCMA.

Traditional means, to me, arts that were formed and had evolved to systems prior to the end of the Qing Dynasty, particularly the time of the Xianfeng Emperor. I use this time span, from about the Norrthern Wei Dynasty around 450, to Qing around 1861, Still, thats not fair to a lot of systems with lineage linked to styles ad families which predate the Qing Dynasty, and vanished because of political persecution, and resurfaced in modern times. Also a lot of historians and martial historians will disagree with my time span, stopping whats deemed as traditional more around the early 1700's , I keep counting because a lot of the Southern schools flourished and developed deeper into the Qing dynasty, some going into the 1900'S. Too many to list. Some will also argue that the best fighters stopped existing before the 1800s...smh :confused:
So the 'traditional' title is a bit flexible, using intelligent discernment however. I will say, a lot of the 'Elder' styles that were formed in feudal times, were battlefield tested. You have the hand vs weapons skills which is spectacular, for instance fist vs. spear, even staff vs sword. stuff like this is timeless and priceless. and then rendered useless to a degree when Europeans made the gun the war standard.
so lets not forget HOW "western" boxing/mma made room for itself; by going to face the worlds greatest warriors with gun power, diminishing the morale over the course of hundreds of years of invasion and oppression, by the gun, and building a capitalist world that honors the 'gladiator' venue, pushing martial arts into 'combat sports' and the "best" fighters are meat heads for hire.

moving again to thinking critically about TCMA you are dealing with advanced combat systems with a growth spanning thousands of years of warfare and peace. for example; the "bodyguard era(s)", the northern "pirate era", the southern "pirate era", and the boxer rebellion era, all have written accounts of TCMA being deadly and acutely effective, so to shun them off as useless is ignorant. Also these eras forged the styles into what they are today, by demand. Where as MMA was built for sport, and to be regulated, TCMA, was forged in the fire.
The problem with TCMA and modern MAist is patience. Kung Fu just takes too long to master to them, much less compete for big money. There a major generation gaps in the distribution of TCMA, and yoou have entire lineages being wiped out by the gun or forced into 'ritual training' or performance arts. TCMA is a real thing, and we can prove its worth easily, so I wont hold you.

now to be serious about where all the fighters are is hard lol, I'm really tempted to just say they are hidden in ancient temples spread through out China, and only come out to help the warriors and ninjas travel the Jiang Hu roads. They are banned from fighting publicly for fear they might enter the avatar state. Their Ch'i levels are tooo high etc.....

when I spoke about the fighters, realistically, a lot of them are in SanDa, and some already compete, so I have to be fair in my explanation because that's not what XXD is looking for. he's not looking for Chinas top San Shou or MMA guy, which is what I was sarcastically suggesting; that he goes against the top SanDa fighter with Traditional roots in North or South Shaolin, and get pummeld, ;) or enter a MMA/Kickboxing league to compete in, because beating the old self proclaimed masters is pretty low and cheap, almost as much as those masters claims.

Theres thousands of SanDa fighters in China who are pretty decent, and who started with what can be called TCMA for sure.

Amituofo
Agreed on the staining. Most likely staining their own pants ;)

OK, fair enough that the definition of purity is your own. In reality though, the majority of CMA that’s around today is actually late Qing to Republic era. Not much left with verifiable roots in Ming and definitely nothing earlier.

I don’t think TCMA are useless at all (otherwise I’m an idiot for having pursued them my whole life). As far as combat effectiveness, they were particularly great in the cold weapon era, as weapons are their foundation.

Yes, some TCMA styles were ‘forged in the fire’, but that was a long time ago and many of the styles that are still around weren’t really forged in the fire in the first place - in fact originating in the ‘ritual training and performance arts’ you mention.

Indeed, there are thousands of spectacularly skilful and tough sanda fighters in China. They are now also making waves in the MMA world and many have also transitioned to become very successful in kickboxing and Muay Thai at the elite international level. Why are all the ‘good fighters’ sanda practitioners? I’ll give you a hint - it’s not the traditional roots.

BT

Djuan

12-16-2019, 09:51 AM

Djuan

12-16-2019, 10:35 AM

Agreed on the staining. Most likely staining their own pants ;)

OK, fair enough that the definition of purity is your own. In reality though, the majority of CMA that’s around today is actually late Qing to Republic era. Not much left with verifiable roots in Ming and definitely nothing earlier.

Indeed, there are thousands of spectacularly skilful and tough sanda fighters in China. They are now also making waves in the MMA world and many have also transitioned to become very successful in kickboxing and Muay Thai at the elite international level. Why are all the ‘good fighters’ sanda practitioners? I’ll give you a hint - it’s not the traditional roots.

BT

With "verifiable roots", again, we are gonna leave that to what story one accepts. Some people go with whats popularly accepted, some dig into deep academia, some have a political perspective, and some take the "folk history". I go with the folk history only because it usually the most direct from the people, and void of political or academic agenda.
I fill in the gaps with research and link the dots. With some common sense, we can draw a picture of the roots of TCMA that makes sense, and in my opinion, there HAD to be organized arts before the Qing dynasty. this is also a talk fit for another thread.

The skills of Sanda are rooted in TCMA, in my opinion, just like Muay Thai. A punch is a punch, an elbow and elbow, a kick a kick, a knee a knee. The only difference is stances. So we are going to say, TCMA is less useful in the ring because techniques come from gong bu? instead of a western boxing stance? thats not common sense, especially since we prractice TCMA and spar with the techniques, we know first hand how easy it is to make TCMA technique work in the ring. The elbow used in muay thai is the same elbow from Luohan Quan, or Da Hong Quan. The fist from Shaolin is the same fist used in boxing. The only difference is the stances in training.
for instance muay thai/ san shou fighters favorite kick, is just "Hou Deng Tui" from Shaolin Ji Ben Gong. The clinch and knee in Muay thai, is laced all throughout Shaolins most basic form, Xiao Hong Quan. I use this stuff to spar/fight with people who train muay thai, and it works just fine. they think I train muay thai as well.
So when I say I have faith it works in the ring, I'm speaking from experience. and I know that XXD has access to fighters who are better trained than I am, so thats where my frustration in hearing him rant against TCMA being effective in the modern ring comes from.

I just refuse to accept that XXD cant find himself a beat down from a TCMA fighter in China. Its a circus for CMA, and people love those staged fights lol
.....I would love to see XXD fight a well trained monk around his age, and try that "rush & pound" shtuff he likes to pull.
He's not the most skilled fighter at all, his style is brute force, and Shaolin is designed to use that leverage against the opponent. So is Tai Chi, entirely. Thats how you know these 'Tai Chi' guys he's fighting probably dont really train Tai Chi. Or they would have took his momentum away immediately.

Fighting, especially with the arts, is chess, and should show some intellect when trained people fight. I dont see the intelligence in his fighting style, so a skilled, trained intelligent TCMA fighter could pick XXD apart with his own energy....he's not patient, and he's not really trained to go against adept fighters. from observation at least. maybe he's hiding his skill for the true masters. :rolleyes:

We'll have to wait and see what his future fights look like lol

Amituofo

B.Tunks

12-16-2019, 09:55 PM

Djuan

12-16-2019, 11:46 PM

Djuan,

Verifiable, meaning historically verifiable (and when I say that, I mean by rigorous Western standards). If you think folk history is devoid of political agenda then we live on completely different planets.

I think you may be reading me wrong - there definitely were organized systems prior to Qing. E.g. the Ming was the greatest period of proliferation. Also, of course I agree that the skills of sanda are rooted in TCMA. Its the methodology of sanda that produces superior fighters.

I won't go on about it as your mind seems firmly made up, but if XXD is an unskilled, impatient and unintelligent fighter, relying entirely on brute force etc, then his victories should be even more embarrassing for 'TCMA' - though it should be said that he hasn't actually set out to discredit all TCMA. In fact has previously indicated respect for a number of styles. If you can take the time to listen to his many long rants you may get a better picture of where he's coming from.

I'll cheer too when and if he gets beaten fair and square (though I wont hold my breath waiting). In the meantime, I have to respect what he's doing - particularly as he's placed his own security in jeopardy and permanently sabotaged his future in China.

BT

Yea I read it wrong lol I was going to say, there are plenty of battlefield accounts, verified even in the West, of organized martial arts being used before the Qing dynasty. glad you cleared that up for me. The folk history I take a liking to, suits no political agenda, and benefits the planet in terms of perspective, no favoritism.
and I totally agree with XXD in his argument against fake masters / misrepresenters etc, just not his approach. That's all up to preference , its his choice really, I'm only spectating and commenting lol, I'm sure he doesn't care about anyone's opinion about what he's doing. ....and ironically, fighters in China who might possibly be able to beat him up, and are practicing TCMA, probably enjoy his show lol and could care less about beating him up unless he challenges them.

I personally despise tuff talk, especially from anything or anyone MMA thats my peeve, so he strikes a nerve ;)
if you wanna bully people and make a name, even if you are MMA and have no master or school, you dont go beat up the old 'bozo masters' ....its dishonorable no matter how you look at ....at least in my scope of the martial art community. we were all taught "Dont fight the weaker" right?

For reflection, would you, personally go out of your way to challenge someone you know you can beat? and they didn't bother you.. lol what are you really proving then?

meh....maybe I'm old fashioned , or just fantasizing about a martial art community with better ethics.

mawali

12-17-2019, 12:14 AM

Despite all the TCMA fanfare and up to the 1940s, shuaijiao was still a better than average martial system and the many had experience with it when they served. Of course, those who used "big swords", wrsetling had a strong hold as a supplement not unlike slef defense but all this lineage stuff did a lot to messup the minds of those seeking some connection that allowed for fame and prestige.

Even XXD's strategy is a 'tradtional" pattern of assessing the skills of those who prefessed some God like message in their lineage by storming the school and fighting the master. In that sense, there is a persistance of that mentality while breaking up the inneundo of magic CMA as in the rebellions of the past using trickery to defeat bullets, or even people like those masters who were making their students fall down but once they got in the ring, they never lasted 2 minutes:D

Djuan

12-17-2019, 11:34 AM

this video is from 'Fight Commentary' youtube: says the Kung Fu fighter does "shijia" .....which I never heard of, so I'm thinking he meant "Shuai Jiao" some one correct it if you know otherwise. I saw what looked like pure Songshan Shaolin going on, maybe thats my bias eyes again :p .....anyway heres a nice example of 'kung fu in the ring' practice from China, relative so Im sharing.
Kung Fu Master Gives MMA Coach A Hard Time During Hard Sparring (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCHNQz1E894)

this next video is from MMAShredded (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt1ZR07apYANZ3MmlbipIXg) youtube channel: the channels main man is in Taiwan sparring with the ONE Championship CHAMP, and his students, one of which uses "kung fu in the ring", it looks like Wing Chun mostly, though I might be wrong, so again, if you see otherwise correct it. This is what I was saying XXD has access to, and they are already in the gym filming. he doesnt need money or sponsors, and I'm sure they would fight/spar/train with XXD for the love/fun/sport of it. I have a more refreshing satisfying time watching these little sparring matches, then XXD's big sponsored WWE esq circus matches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dREHYzVfsmI

Jimbo

12-17-2019, 11:53 AM

this video is from 'Fight Commentary' youtube: says the Kung Fu fighter does "shijia" .....which I never heard of, so I'm thinking he meant "Shuai Jiao" some one correct it if you know otherwise. I saw what looked like pure Songshan Shaolin going on, maybe thats my bias eyes again :p .....anyway heres a nice example of 'kung fu in the ring' practice from China, relative so Im sharing.
Kung Fu Master Gives MMA Coach A Hard Time During Hard Sparring (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCHNQz1E894)

He was NOT talking about Shuai Jiao. He is saying “Shi Jia” and the Chinese characters for “Shi Jia” or whatever style it is appear at the bottom left of the screen at about 0:10. I’d never heard of it, either. Maybe it’s a southern style, and if so, it would be something-Ga or -Gar. Interesting, but I cannot stand listening to the speaker’s voice. I’d have to watch it again later with the sound muted.

Djuan

12-17-2019, 12:41 PM

Interesting, but I cannot stand listening to the speaker’s voice. I’d have to watch it again later with the sound muted.

thanks for clearing that up! I like the channel because theey dig up some nice videos, HOWEVER, I share your sentiment and usually watch them on mute, save the intro for wherewithal! https://media.giphy.com/media/xThta92dozy5VBnqIU/giphy.gif

GeneChing

12-18-2019, 08:21 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJH7wdDuOjk

Djuan

12-18-2019, 12:16 PM

^ this was fair as fight forr XXD, and I love that he said he "just wants to vent his anger" , THATS more like it. Honest and level.
he can get more respect from the martial art community, and most importantly, from himself, later on in retrospect.

the guy he faught seemed a little tired, 10784 still a fair fight generally. would like to see the whole thing round for round.

Amituofo!

GeneChing

12-18-2019, 02:53 PM

Jimbo

12-18-2019, 03:35 PM

...was Lumpinee was empty. I've been there - it's one of those martial pilgrimages you just have to make when in Bangkok. I went when there were these amatuer kids fighting, real low level stuff, very cheap, and the place was much more full for that than it was for this fight. Makes me wonder how big the whole thing is. I mean, you can make anything look big on the interwebz, ya know?

The audience was probably almost exclusively made up of Mainland Chinese wanting to see XXD demolish a flabby Japanese kickboxer. Probably not what the native crowd would care much about.

Jimbo

12-19-2019, 10:06 AM

Djuan,

Verifiable, meaning historically verifiable (and when I say that, I mean by rigorous Western standards). If you think folk history is devoid of political agenda then we live on completely different planets.

I think you may be reading me wrong - there definitely were organized systems prior to Qing. E.g. the Ming was the greatest period of proliferation. Also, of course I agree that the skills of sanda are rooted in TCMA. Its the methodology of sanda that produces superior fighters.

I won't go on about it as your mind seems firmly made up, but if XXD is an unskilled, impatient and unintelligent fighter, relying entirely on brute force etc, then his victories should be even more embarrassing for 'TCMA' - though it should be said that he hasn't actually set out to discredit all TCMA. In fact has previously indicated respect for a number of styles. If you can take the time to listen to his many long rants you may get a better picture of where he's coming from.

I'll cheer too when and if he gets beaten fair and square (though I wont hold my breath waiting). In the meantime, I have to respect what he's doing - particularly as he's placed his own security in jeopardy and permanently sabotaged his future in China.

BT

Agreed.

As for XXD being an unskilled, unintelligent (some may say brutish) fighter, I agree that the “TCMA masters” who have been humiliated by him should feel even more embarrassed about it. It’s also easy for people to underestimate “brutish” fighters. Chris Leben wasn’t exactly the most stylish fighter in MMA, but he was effective and won a lot of fights. There is a saying I’ve heard often used by Taiji practitioners: 4 ounces to deflect 1,000 pounds. Well, things are much different when an experienced fighter who knows how to fight is coming at you with real intent, and then it might not be so easy to use that 4 ounces to deflect his “1,000 pounds” of force and aggression. Fighting isn’t necessarily about intelligence, either, at least intellectually. And unskilled or not can be deceptive. IMO, if someone is effective consistently enough, then there is skill there, even if his methods aren’t ‘stylish’ or ‘pretty’ to watch.

Like him or not, what XXD is doing takes guts. Whether it’s smart for him and his life or not is beside the point, and whether he’s likable or unlikable as a human being or not is also beside the point. But any TCMA “expert” or “master” who challenges him had better do the real work. Anybody who thinks they can just step into the ring against a professional fighter, even one who isn’t top-tier, and stand much of a chance, is seriously deluded. Then there’s no difference between them and the armchair MAists who watch boxing or MMA fights on TV and say, “That guy sucks. I can kick his @ss!” Then if they get the chance to spar that fighter or someone similar to him, they find out the hard way.

I’ll also be cheering if XXD gets legitimately beaten in a fair fight. You never know; it could happen at any time, but TBH, I don’t see it happening anytime soon, considering the types of opponents he’s taking.

Djuan

12-19-2019, 02:39 PM

for perspective here, the fake masters are far more a stain to themselves more than XXD is to himself. Also the fake masters, though they cannot tarnish TCMA, do more against TCMA in their own expression, than XXD in his.
that said, my only frustration with the "XXD show", is that XXD doesn't pick better fighters with all of his "frustration" and effort. While I admire the courage, and the ability to put the show together, etc...as it gives us something to watch and talk about,..... I personally, and emphasizing personally, want to see some great fighters with traditional roots who have mastered using TCMA in the ring, make a solid stand against great fighters with kickboxing or MMA roots who can do more that use size or brute line attacks.

now there is nothing wrong with brute force at all. especially when its well matched. However, XXD's matches are not paired fairly by weight class, so to see him use his strength is boring. All the while he's arguing against someones lack of skill or poor application, I'd like to see some application from him, at least some decent grappling or kickboxing (MMA) stuff he claims he does.

We can agree that in martial arts, of any discipline, you dont have to be flashy or show out to display technical fighting skill and application. In boxing you have the part of the sport which is very technical, and graceful, then you have the brute force side. Some fighters are better and one, some at both. We all like those who can do both.
Same with Pro Muay Thai, or even in the UFC. You have that balance. Why make an exception for XXD, and he has such a big mouth?
All Im saying is he can do better, and should. First by picking better fighters to challenge. Thats actually enough. Whatever he has in him, better fighters will definitely bring it out of him. I know the saps he's been fighting dont put up much of a challenge or force him to perform better.

Amituofo

GeneChing

02-03-2020, 08:59 AM

Chinese mixed martial arts fighter Xu Xiaodong rose to fame exposing fake kung fu – now he just wants to ‘survive’ (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3048431/chinese-mixed-martial-arts-fighter-xu-xiaodong-rose-fame?fbclid=IwAR267rcazsHV4rxeah1It5ysSmF4iyxs3TwE JxcJEb-SDckwUX01Pd5GfO0)
When China’s most controversial fighter headed to Bangkok for the biggest match of his career, his first concern was whether he would be allowed on the flight
Back in Beijing, he has faced visits from unnamed officials and repeated suspensions of his social media accounts
Inkstone
Published: 1:00pm, 1 Feb, 2020

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2020/01/31/2e23ac9a-440a-11ea-9fd9-ecfbb38a9743_image_hires_204357.jpg?itok=pqK83mTx&v=1580474643
Controversial Chinese mixed martial arts fighter Xu Xiaodong in training for the biggest fight of his career. Photo: Qin Chen

This article was written by Qin Chen and Arman Dzidzovic, and originally appeared in Inkstone, a daily digest of six China-focused stories.
When Xu Xiaodong, China’s most controversial mixed martial artist, beat former Japanese kick-boxing champion Yuichiro Nagashima in a Bangkok ring last November, he let out a few victorious screams.
Then he stopped. He had just won the biggest fight of his career, but he did not want to be seen celebrating. “If I look too happy, there will be more people coming after me,” Xu said after the fight.
The 41-year-old said that a few weeks earlier he was worried he might not be allowed to leave Beijing.
“It would be hard for other athletes to imagine what I’m going through,” he said, a week before he was due to travel to Bangkok.
“My fight organisers are withholding all promotion. They’re afraid that I won’t be able to leave China. I honestly can’t believe I have sunk this low.”
Xu’s rise to infamy started in 2017, when he beat a tai chi master in 20 seconds in a fight that became a viral video. He gained instant fame but his account on Weibo, China’s microblogging platform, was shut down a few days later as the state-run Chinese Wushu Association berated the fight, saying it “violated the spirit of martial arts” and was “potentially illegal”.
Undeterred, he later took down three other kung fu masters in high-profile matches streamed online.
In May 2019, he was temporarily barred by a Chinese court from travelling on high-speed trains or booking flights and hotels because he refused to apologise to Chen Xiaowang, a tai chi master, after losing a defamation case to Chen.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2020/01/31/0822b676-440a-11ea-9fd9-ecfbb38a9743_1320x770_204357.jpg
Xu Xiaodong (top) becomes the first Chinese person to fight and win a main event at Bangkok’s Lumpinee Boxing Stadium. Photo: Handout

Around that time, nearly all of Xu’s social media accounts in China were suspended without explanation. But he decided to double down by using a virtual private network to open YouTube and Twitter accounts.
“I just did not give a **** any more … I know it’s illegal to hop over the censorship wall, but I also know they can’t block me once I’m on YouTube,” Xu said at a Beijing gym in November. “As long as I’m alive, I will keep live-streaming on YouTube.”
When Xu made his first YouTube appearance in August 2019, he chose to tackle the most controversial topic of the day: the ongoing anti-government protests in Hong Kong, which had begun two months earlier.
Soon after that live stream, Xu was awakened by knocking on the door of his Beijing flat. His young daughter opened the door to two uniformed Chinese officials.
Xu, who refused to give more detail, used a vague Chinese term, the “related departments,” to identify the officials. “They can go after me however they want. But by coming to my home, they were threatening me through my family,” he said, months after the visit.
So when Xu was allowed to pass through immigration at Beijing’s Daxing International Airport for his Bangkok fight, he was relieved.
He was on his way to his first competition outside China. For Xu, it was his first opportunity to prove his critics wrong.
Many had claimed he won fame by beating up kung fu masters with little professional fighting experience, or that some were smaller in size than him.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2020/01/31/41e68b7a-4348-11ea-9fd9-ecfbb38a9743_1320x770_204357.JPG
The fight between Chinese tai chi master Wei Lei and Xu Xiaodong in 2017 lasted just 20 seconds. Photo: Imagine China

That was why he decided to take on 35-year-old Nagashima, famous for dressing up in anime cosplay on his way into the ring and a K-1 kick-boxing winner with three back-to-back knockouts in 2010 – a proper professional.
Speaking to some 240,000 viewers on his YouTube live stream after the fight, Xu said he was just thankful the fight had happened at all, saying the organisers had faced pressure from Chinese authorities to cancel it.
But a day after his win in Bangkok, it was back to reality – his account on Weibo was suspended once again. It was his 12th account, which he had opened just six days before. Every time one of his Chinese social media accounts gets shut down, Xu sets up a new one. He is now on his 14th.
Recently, he suffered a new blow. On January 2, his business account on Tencent-owned WeChat, through which he used to receive donations from his fans on YouTube, was suspended. It was one of his main sources of income, besides teaching mixed martial arts in gyms across Beijing.
Xu said he felt the suspension was “treacherous” and potentially threatened his ability to make a living. And even though he was allowed to travel to Thailand, he worries he may be banned from travelling abroad in the future.
The constant worry and paranoia has diminished the once-boastful, bombastic Xu, who said he just wants “some basic rights” in 2020, like the means to earn a living and the freedom to travel.
“My new year resolution for the year is simple: to survive,” he said. By 'survive', does he really just mean remain significant as an interwebz influencer?

Jimbo

02-03-2020, 09:12 AM

What was he expecting? Regardless of how I feel about the fake KF masters he was exposing, it’s obvious that Xu isn’t exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

GeneChing

07-17-2020, 09:46 AM

Martial Arts / Kung Fu
Chinese kung fu ‘masters’ told to clean up act and stop bringing shame to traditional martial arts (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3093405/chinese-kung-fu-masters-told-clean-act-and-stop-bringing)
Chinese Wushu Association says behaviour of self-proclaimed ‘masters’ has damaged the overall image of traditional martial arts
Practitioners warned not to appoint themselves as ‘kung fu masters’, ‘authentic masters’ or ‘legacy inheritors’ and stop faking documents and certificates
Patrick Blennerhassett
Published: 1:37pm, 16 Jul, 2020

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2020/07/16/4dc77d86-c684-11ea-86df-6d561651b5f4_image_hires_133652.jpg?itok=E9zigvTa&v=1594877818
The Chinese Wushu Association is pleading with “masters” like tai chi practitioner Ma Baoguo to stop hyping fights. Photo: Handout

The Chinese Wushu Association is cracking down on kung fu “masters” from overhyping themselves and bringing detrimental effects to traditional martial arts in China.
The association published directives in a “proposal” on its website last week, saying also it would give “guidance” and help promote the various traditional martial arts disciplines.

In the past few years, practitioners have hyped fights for financial or personal gain, which has brought a lot of controversy.
The CWA’s proposal, “Ways to strengthen self discipline in the business and enhance wushu culture in China” – which can be read as a “directive” as it is the governing body – says the behaviour of self-proclaimed “masters” has also damaged the overall image of traditional martial arts.
A number of videos have gone viral of tai chi “masters” being badly beaten in actual fights, primarily with modern-day mixed martial arts practitioners.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2020/07/16/5c50fc06-c684-11ea-86df-6d561651b5f4_1320x770_133652.jpg
Mixed martial arts fighter Xu Xiaodong has been on a crusade to expose fake martial arts masters. Image: YouTube

The latest viral craze involved tai chi master Ma Baoguo who was knocked out cold by an amateur martial arts fighter 20 years his junior. The 69-year-old was left unconscious in his fight debut in Shandong.
Arguably, the most well-known MMA fighter in China, who has been on a crusade to expose fake martial arts masters, is maverick Xu Xiaodong. Nicknamed “Mad Dog”, he has taken a number of fights with various practitioners and subsequently been blacklisted in his home country.
The CWA is appealing to all the country’s martial artists to uphold “self-discipline” and avoid “hyping themselves as masters” or become involved in other “violations”.
Recently some fake masters arbitrarily set up different sects and appointed themselves as “head” of these fake sects for personal gain, making use of the popularity of traditional Chinese martial arts in the community to promote commercial activities through overhyped fights.
“This has severely tarnished the image of the traditional martial arts and must be totally prohibited,” the directive says.
The CWA is asking martial arts practitioners not to appoint themselves as “kung fu masters”, “authentic masters” or “legacy inheritors” and not to fake any documents or certificates related to their training or “alleged prowess”.
“Practitioners of different martial arts styles should respect each other, communicate sincerely, enhance unity, and improve together, and must not defame, maliciously attack, or discriminate against others,” the association says.

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2020/07/16/50626ace-c684-11ea-86df-6d561651b5f4_1320x770_133652.jpg
Tai chi master Ma Baoguo is knocked out in Shandong. Image: YouTube

The directive also suggests a skills evaluation should be done through the proper Chinese martial arts ranking systems, and that they should not randomly create new kung fu styles, schools and also respect other fellow martial artists.

This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as: Kung fu ‘masters’ told to clean up their overhyped act

Patrick Blennerhassett
Patrick Blennerhassett is an award-winning Canadian journalist and four-time published author. He is a Jack Webster Fellowship winner and a British Columbia bestselling novelist. He has covered sport for the South China Morning Post since 2018.

Threads
China-to-clean-up-self-proclaimed-kung-fu-masters (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71827-China-to-clean-up-self-proclaimed-kung-fu-masters)
Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)

GeneChing

12-03-2020, 10:27 AM

Video: Watch MMA fighter finish tai chi ‘master’ with a jab (https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2020/12/1/21755039/video-xu-xiaodong-watch-mma-fighter-finish-tai-chi-master-with-a-jab-mma-vs-tai-chi-mma-news)
Xu Xiaodong is back!
By Tim Bissell@timobiss Dec 1, 2020, 1:00pm EST

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/8nyiKFau1XDGhbn4uIgAes_xdAs=/0x0:1198x593/1820x1213/filters:focal(504x202:694x392):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/68067481/Screenshot_2020_12_01_Fight_Commentary_Breakdowns. 0.png
Fight Commentary Breakdowns/YouTube
Xu Xiaodong is back at it again.

‘It’—in case you are unfamiliar with the Beijing based MMA instructor, who goes by ‘Mad Dog’—is whooping traditional martial arts masters who are accused of being charlatans and fakers.

After a break from these bizarre style vs. style fights Xu got back in the cage (which this time was set up in a forest clearing in Guangzhou, Guangdong Province) recently to face Chen Yong, a self-proclaimed sixth-generation Tai Chi master.

Footage of the fight was uploaded to Fight Commentary Breakdowns (which features many Xu clips and other style vs. style fights).

As you can see this was barely a contest. Within seconds of the fight, Xu threw a front kick at Chen, then a right leg kick, left jab combination. Off the jab Chen reeled back to the fence like he was on a wire. He then waved his arms to signal he was finished.

According to Jerry Liu of Fight Commentary Breakdowns Chen had called for this fight with Xu to be postponed twice, so he could get in extra training. Maybe he was training how to get out of a fight without getting seriously hurt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPVCfyS7zA&feature=emb_logo

Unlike Chen, many traditional martial artists have taken a beating when fighting Xu (or other MMA fighters inspired by Mad Dog’s crusade).

This whole thing started in 2017. That’s when Xu began arguing with traditional martial artists on Chinese social media platform Weibo. Xu’s contention was that MMA was supreme for both self-defense and combat sports and that traditional styles had little-to-no use in actual combat settings. Xu also argued that so-called masters who claimed they could wield supernatural-like powers through qi channeling and pressure point manipulation were con-artists exaggerating their skills to sell school admissions and videos.

This argument boiled over when Xu and tai chi practitioner Wei Lei agreed to fight behind closed doors at a gym in Chengdu. The fight ended in 10 seconds, with Xu knocking Wei out cold.

Footage of this fight went viral. And Xu soaked up all the attention. He issued an open challenge to any traditional martial artist and offered a cash prize to any who could beat him. A number of individuals responded to the callout and a local juice tycoon even offered to add to the bounty for anyone who could beat Xu.

All this attention ruffled the feathers of the powerful Chinese Wushu Association and the Chinese government.

Over the past few years, while Xu has racked up a handful of viral KOs of tai chi and wing chun players, he has also faced pressure from the traditional martial arts community and the government.

Xu’s social media accounts have been closed down and wiped by the State on multiple occasions. He was also sued for defamation by a tai chi master (whose lawsuit was bankrolled by the Chinese Wushu Association). That lawsuit resulted in Xu having to apologize to the plaintiff for seven-straight days. Xu also had to pay a fine and have his social credit rating slashed.

Xu’s social credit rating was reduced to a level where he could no longer rent or own property or travel on high speed public transit.

Despite these obstacles Xu remains keen on exposing what he calls ‘fake martial artists’. During these past few years Xu has also showed he’s not afraid of speaking out against the government.

He has gone on record to defend both protestors in Hong Kong (who were battling mainland China’s power grab on the territory) and whistle blowers who revealed the chaotic handling of the COVID-19 outbreak in Wuhan.

Such activities have resulted in visits from Chinese police and officials.

threads
Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
A-Challenge (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?29936-A-Challenge)

GeneChing

12-07-2020, 09:57 AM

Chen can't even make of decent excuses. Each one of these is weak. He just makes himself look worse.

Xu Xiaodong: tai chi master blames sunlight, cage floor and no time for 10-second defeat (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/mixed-martial-arts/article/3112776/xu-xiaodong-tai-chi-master-blames-sunlight)
Chen Yong posts video on social media to explain loss, says tai chi cannot generate force on soft ground
‘When Xu Xiaodong hit me I was just finding my groove and then I was blinded by the sun,’ loser says of 10-second defeat
Jonathan White
Published: 5:56pm, 6 Dec, 2020

https://img.i-scmp.com/cdn-cgi/image/fit=contain,width=1098,format=auto/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2020/12/06/451dbfd8-37a4-11eb-8d89-a7d6b31c4b8a_image_hires_175650.jpg?itok=yiCwQ9HE&v=1607248615
Tai chi master Chen Yong records a video for social media to explain the reasons he lost his fight to Xu Xiaodong. Photo: YouTube
Fresh off his defeat by Xu Xiaodong last weekend, beaten tai chi master Chen Yong made a video explaining the reasons he lost in a video that was dramatically longer than the 10-second fight.
The pair finally fought their long-awaited bout in the mountains of Guangdong province last weekend, two years after Chen first challenged Xu.
This was Xu’s return to the cage after an extended break because of China’s fight against the Covid-19 pandemic.
When they did finally fight it lasted all of 10 seconds with Xu twice kicking and jabbing the self-proclaimed tai chi master, who then threw in the towel.
Chen later posted on social media as to why he had not beaten “Mad Dog” in their fight, with the video surfacing on YouTube in its original Mandarin last week.
The tai chi master began by blaming a lack of preparation for the fight, saying he had no time to prepare for the bout that he twice postponed.
“When I arrived it was rushed. Why? Because it started two hours early,” Chen said as he appears to read prompts from a phone. “I had no time to warm up.”
Chen also blamed a lack of familiarity with where the fight was held, saying he had not been at the site in a year.
“The moment I stepped into the cage I realised the ground was so soft. I have been practising for a year on hard surfaces, soft surfaces inhibit tai chi.
“The power and force that comes from tai chi can’t be found on soft surfaces.
Chen then pointed the blame at the referee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trzkVtYSNoA&feature=emb_logo

“The ref put me facing the sun and he put Xu Xiaodong’s back against the sun,” Chen said. “I had the sun in my eyes but I wasn’t completely aware of that at first.”
The sun “became very apparent” when the match started, he said. “When Xu Xiaodong hit me I was just finding my groove and then I was blinded by the sun.”
Chen said he “lost by a fluke” as he reiterated his claim that the cage floor was too soft.

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Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)
A-Challenge (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?29936-A-Challenge)