Rooting

[yeshe]

It seems TCMA places a special emphasis on on rooting. Whether it is the standing post exercises and tai chi or horse stance training in the X ternal style, it is always there.
In other artists such as boxing or Thai boxing or even the Philippines and Indonesia and arts, they don't have this emphasis on the strength of the stands and routing.
If I watch somebody do a form I can see if they did traditional stance training and I can see the strengthen their form but when it comes to fighting I really don't see a difference. Mobility is far more important when it comes to actual fighting.
So the question I want to throw out there, is just how important is this type of training in your past experiences.
How was it useful to you.
My purpose of this post is not to start a debate, but a discussion because it is so important to our Chinese martial arts that we practice.

[No_Know]

The person who kicked my front leg [and so of course they took it, because when you kick a leg it automatically moves and the person has to recover their balance so the kicker moves in to take advantage]; however I practice standing and my leg did not move. I was not off balance. And I was there to see his shocked face and upset momentum as he was trying a foiled attack because I was not empty as he moved in. And he did not Get in, because he could not pass my stance...Just sayin'-Ernie Moore Jr.

I No_Know

[wiz cool c]

I think it is because of the extreme importance it must have played back in the days when there where bandits that traveled in groups and were armed with blades. Staying off the ground under those types of situations could mean the difference between life and death.

[diego]

I think it could be a little of what came first the chicken or the egg. Animals and cave men probably have never had a Tai Chi slow motion fight lol so we can guess that the first martial art forms resembled fast kick boxing drills. I figure Tai Chi and to your question Root training came from years of physiotherapy on old soldiers.

If you look at say Helio Gracie after age 80 he moves slow like a Tai Chi form when he moves through his basic stances, I think Kung Fu for health became a thing like horse stance vertical punch turn to bow stance horizontal punch is in every style but if you can do horse punch to bow punch when you are 80 like when you were 60 that is some good physiotherapy training compared to the tennis player who gets in a car accident age 60 and by age 80 it hurts to do basic squats and lunge physiotherapy for his deformed hip.

90 Year old Helio Gracie training:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQmz1YDVt3c


Bak Mei you go fast the only time we hold a pose or go slow is when we are tired losing form or hold the form when you are learning proper body alignment. But my school also has Tai Chi which is big on the rooting training. I think in Tai Chi`s case holding stance gives you relaxed alignment so you don`t drop the Tai Chi sword in class lol but if you ever get injured or when you are old the rooting training will help you get back into Tai Chi shape like doing Hip Physiotherapy slow motion full range of motion training on a yoga mat. Like any sport when you are young you carry your football and baseball bat with you everywhere.. holding a stance aligns you with your weapon, which is good for when you are young to learn strength like when sore I will just hold a heavy weight on my shoulders to warm up my neck and grip for heavy rep light weight squats

Basically internal training reminds me of dynamic physiotherapy training, instead of doing basic squat and lunges for instance Bak Mei Sub Jee form you drop into a cat stance and kick then hop back a step and drop into a Buddha praying pose, defend the kick then jump up into a front stance..all of these motions like drop down then jump up works the squat and lunge muscles at a more advanced level than basic body weight lunge squats.
40-43 second point shows the cat stance kick drop down to jump up tiger claw squat lunge:)

Bak Mei Sub Jee and Ying Jow combined set Hong Kong Kung Fu Corner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZEiLXs7iI8

40-43 second point shows the cat stance kick drop down to jump up tiger claw squat lunge:)

[YouKnowWho]

When you punch on your opponent, the counter force will come back at you. The stronger rooting that you have, the more counter force your body can take, the more powerful punch you can generate.

[GeneChing]

Rooting is discussed in the Wing Chun (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?12764-Rooting), Southern (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?1750-Stance-Rooting) and Tai Chi (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?4031-rooting) subforums.

[MarathonTmatt]

I think it could be a little of what came first the chicken or the egg. Animals and cave men probably have never had a Tai Chi slow motion fight lol so we can guess that the first martial art forms resembled fast kick boxing drills. I figure Tai Chi and to your question Root training came from years of physiotherapy on old soldiers.


Hello Diego & Others,

The most ancient of cultures always run. Usually bare foot over tough terrain, sometimes extremely long distances over rocky trails in hot and humid weather. Sometimes for days. As somebody who has done/ does some long distance running- it is a great way to train rooting. Somebody years ago even marketed something called "chi running." I never bought into that or looked too deeply into that or whatever. But, from my own experience, especially running up-hill, my instinctive response is to grip the ground while launching off the soles of my feet.

[diego]

Hello Diego & Others,

The most ancient of cultures always run. Usually bare foot over tough terrain, sometimes extremely long distances over rocky trails in hot and humid weather. Sometimes for days. As somebody who has done/ does some long distance running- it is a great way to train rooting. Somebody years ago even marketed something called "chi running." I never bought into that or looked too deeply into that or whatever. But, from my own experience, especially running up-hill, my instinctive response is to grip the ground while launching off the soles of my feet.

:) I read Mike Tyson trained 8-10 hours a day when he made it into the Olympics and became the Champ he would do 2-4 hours boxing and 6 hours leg work every day like jog in the morning, skip rope at lunch and ride stationary bike after dinner. Lol I`ve been doing doing writing and 3d art for a few years so I`ll spend two weeks just sitting down then train on weekends, you really notice the difference after doing Interval Sprints for 3 months like when Im out of shape I can barely do the drop down after kick in the Bak Mei Sub Jee Ying Jow video I posted, like it hurts my hip to even bend the knee to the floor fast.

My 70 year old teacher jumps back and lands in perfect Shaolin sitting pose then jumps back up into front stance tiger claw grabs. It`s hilarious everyone I see learn Sub Jee sucks at it wether teenager, MMA guy or body builder guy they don`t have the firm tendons to quickly perform the postures.

My Sifu says your pose should be firm I think the idea is to be like WW1 soldiers not too big, fairly slim and firm to perform with functional speed.

[Jimbo]

For now, I'll just make a couple of observations about why stance training, and leg strength in general, are important.

Watch the vast majority of people as they get older. In most cases, the legs are the first things to go. This happens to athletes as well as to 'normal' people. They gradually lose leg strength, balance/stability, flexibility, mobility, etc., along with other health-related issues. Many elderly people suffer from falls because of this; there could be a number of other reasons too, but the legs play a huge part. Regular stance work, plenty of vigorous walking, strength training, proper stretching (among other things) done throughout one's lifetime can help to delay and/or greatly reduce such physical and mental effects of aging.

Of course, you can also get similar benefits of some stance work from doing squats. If one is able, why not incorporate both?

Stance training can also be beneficial when entering the opponent's space to displace him/take him down.

I haven't been able to do much stance training lately due to an injury, and I can definitely feel the difference. Even when I was at my peak in my stance development, it never had any negative effects on my mobility. When I am eventually able to, I will have to gradually work back into it.

BTW: IMO, it's NOT necessary to hold a stance for 20 to 45 minutes (for example).

[David Jamieson]

Rooting is the ability to sink and stick while projecting force.

Plant, strike then move, plant/strike/move, plant strike move. repeat

It's this ability to move between states that improves your fighting tactics game.

Boxers work stance, foot drills, sinking and twisting into strikes. Most all fighting arts do. Pretty much any tcma studies this as well because it is part of the study of energies (gings).

TCMA tends to get way down into the weeds of it though and that's quite normal and useful when you think about how long defining martial arts has been going on there. Don't start at the bottom of the weeds though, you will lose your breath!

[YouKnowWho]

Without strong rooting is like a "small boat with big cannon". When you fire a big cannon from a small boat, that small boat will sink.

[bawang]

to gain strength of tree you must fight tree.

*rubs testicles

[yeshe]

Without strong rooting is like a "small boat with big cannon". When you fire a big cannon from a small boat, that small boat will sink.

I totally get that, I'm not questioning the principal ,what I don't get is why there is such a strong emphasis on stationary stance practice i.e. horse stance standing or san ti standing in Xing Yi .There is an almost fetish adherence to this type of training.

[YouKnowWho]

I totally get that, I'm not questioning the principal ,what I don't get is why there is such a strong emphasis on stationary stance practice i.e. horse stance standing or san ti standing in Xing Yi .There is an almost fetish adherence to this type of training.

There are 2 important training in CMA:

1. You move around and your opponent cannot touch you.
2. You stand on your ground. No matter how hard that your opponent's attack may be, you will not move back even 1 inch.

To run away is easy. To stand on the ground and fight back is not. The moment that you move back 1 inch, you may move back 10 inches. You may soon be run down by your opponent and lost courage and confidence to fight.

[Jimbo]

I totally get that, I'm not questioning the principal ,what I don't get is why there is such a strong emphasis on stationary stance practice i.e. horse stance standing or san ti standing in Xing Yi .There is an almost fetish adherence to this type of training.

Most people, from the time they begin walking, stand, move and breathe from a high center of gravity. It's thoroughly ingrained in most people. When most completely inexperienced people get into fights, they tend to fight with a very high center of gravity, which not only affects their stability, balance and mobility, but also creates many more vulnerabilities.

Stationary stance work aims to retrain the body and mind to stand and move from a lowered center of gravity, and to move from 'the center'. At the same time, you are focusing your breathing into your lower abdomen as opposed to mainly your chest. You are basically washing away old habits and replacing them with new ones. The mind should also be centering, able to 'relax' yet focus under the stress of the stance being held. This develops a type of willpower.

Ideally, the result is that what is 'unnatural' then becomes a natural way of moving and being, without having to be consciously aware of it. In CMA, this begins with stationary stance training. If this were easy to accomplish, stance training would not be necessary.

[Cataphract]

Have a bunch of five or more kids try to wrestle you to the ground at the same time. Best rooting exercise ever.

[GeneChing]

How strong is your stance? READ Destabilization: The Bogeyman that Lurks in Every Street Fight (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1722) by Phillip A. Humphries

http://www.kungfumagazine.com//admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/images/ezine/8372_Destabilization-The-Bogeyman_Lead.jpg