Wai Lun Choi's liu ho pa fa lineage?

[dubj]

I know that he has been teaching for a long time, so does he have any students around the US teaching. Also, are there any other masters of the legit system around?

[count]

Jack Sodderberg is teaching in Las Vegas but I doubt he is showing Liu Ho Ba Fa. His Llama Crane is excellent though and he adds aspects of Filipino arts as well as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I had a roommate here in LA for a few years who did Liu Ho Ba Fa and Hsing-I with Choi but I don't think he is teaching. Don't know anyone in AZ though. You can find other good bagua there if your interested.ˇ

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)


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[dubj]

Sure I am interested, who do you recommend?

[Chris McKinley]

Drake Sansone of this forum is a student of Choi's.

[swmngdragn]

Choi sifu does not have any students that are/have trained/learned the entire system to the level of sifu. Many have portions of the style of LHPF, and have used that to their personal benefit. Jack never learned LHPF. Only the Lama Pai form that Choi sifu teaches, and Liu Hum Bai Sai, a subset of the LHPF style. This is not a reflection on Choi sifu as a teacher, but an indication of the lack of patience/perserverance of the typical student in this area, or the state of the life of said students. Sad. Form over substance becomes the optimal phrase.

The only other gentleman that teaches the entire style is a retired actor turned gong fu instructor in Hong Kong named Kam Tung. He's affiliated with the Chin Mu/Ching Mo association there. He was Choi sifu's classmate, and trained side by side with him.

That being said; There are several instructors around the U.S., and the world that teach various "forms" of LHPF, but are either the standard PRC "wushu/dance/performance" oriented, a "general" style taught to the public with no corrections, or half remembered forms that have adapted/included other techniques from outside styles to overcome the "gaps" in their form. Never the entire system, however. Only the long form, or the long form with adaptations of the basic twelve animals/san pan shier shi/upper, middle, and lower trainings. Of these, none are entirely correct that I've seen, and none are geared towards the martial aspect.

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell." Terry W.

[This message was edited by Drake on 11-18-01 at 07:41 AM.]

[count]

Drake is in Chicago, I expect he'll contribute to this thread soon enough.

In AZ I recommend Vince Black for bagua. Last number I have for him is in Tucson. 602-544-4838. This listing goes way back to the days of the pakua journal though, so it may be outdated. There are at least 2 others in Arizona I have listed in my bagua directory at my personal website, kabooom. (http://kabooom.com/htmls/baguaschools.html)

Count

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[count]

I recieved this mail the other day from Dr. Michael Guen. You might be interested in attending. I have requested further details but have not received them yet. Maybe Justin can give more?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Dear Teachers & Practitioners of BAGUAZHANG and BAGUAQUAN,

Interested in attending a presentation of Gong Baotian's complete inner and
outer Baguaquan system? Then come to the 2002 1ST ANNUAL YIN FU BAGUA CONFERENCE!

The Conference will also include a general Bagua research forum where all of us who attend shall try to piece together Dong Haichuan's original style from the information and experience each of us has to share.

WHEN: JANUARY 12-13, 2002

WHERE: SEDONA, ARIZONA

Check out www.ayba.org (http://www.ayba.org) for details.

Cordially,
Mich ael Guen, Ph.D.
[/quote]

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

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[count]

Right there on my coat tails. Just curious about this comment and I'm definately not saying anything negative about Choi. Also, I am not defending any particular student or teacher.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This is not a reflection on Choi sifu as a teacher, but an indication of the lack of patience/perserverance of the typical student in this area, or the state of the life of said students. Sad. Form over substance becomes the optimal phrase. [/quote]

Not sure if yu are refering to Jack but he spent around 15 years with Choi and has been teaching for over 20 years. Could it be his patience you are eluding to. Jack was/is also more than a forms man. He can fight and has trained others to do so. Anyway, as I said, I don't think Jack would teach any Liu Ho Ba Fa.

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)


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[swmngdragn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Not sure if you are referring to Jack but he spent around 15 years with Choi and has been teaching for over 20 years. Could it be his patience you are alluding to? Jack was/is also more than a forms man. He can fight and has trained others to do so. Anyway, as I said, I don't think Jack would teach any Liu Ho Ba Fa.

Count [/quote]

:) Jack trained formally with Choi sifu for around 3-5 years, Count. It's a loooooong story, and Jack never got around to learning LHPF. Just a few of the basics. Jack was a service man, and tough as nails, so his training consisted of exclusively physical, and not internal. Not saying that he can't fight, or teach. We both know better than that. Just that LHPF wasn't his cup of tea. Needless to say, Jack has become a good teacher, and produces some quality students. He is definately *not* a "forms guy". If you'd like the full story let's take this private. I'd much prefer that venue.

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell." Terry W.

[count]

Jack was also with Choi in China town before Choi opened up to the public but hey, it's been alot of years since and I agree with what you are saying about his directions and there's no real reason to go on about it. (unless it's a really interesting story ;) I actually spent only one year with Jack learning Llama Crane and that was over 20 years ago. I had the opportunity to meet Choi than and it is still one or two of the most influencial experiences in my "kung fu career". When/if I move back to Chicago, expect to see me in the front line of class ;)

I'll e-mail you later for some more, gotta go train now :cool:

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)


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