Proper Pak Sao

[stonecrusher69]

A short video on how I use pak Sao , and how you use pak Sao...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAs-nYaKeVE&lc=z23px1na3kqvvdr31acdp432yv1yfq505xo0nocj1npw03c 010c

[Sihing73]

Thank you for sharing.

I approach this a little differently.
When I do a Pak I do not go directly across my body.
Instead I go forward and cross the body at an angle.
While I may go to the end of my shoulder, I think that it is optimal to stop about the centerline. Of course, I also will use two hands rather than one at times so perhaps do a Pak to centerline and then continue with a Taun or something else after that point with footwork to offset, depending on the situation.

By extending my Pak forward and at an angle I am able to create a wedge and this provides support to deflect what is coming in. If you cross the body I feel you lose structure and will be less stable and have trouble deflecting the incoming attack. Plus, you shorten the distance and could make it easier for your own arm to be trapped.

Not saying how I do it is better, just another perspective.

[stonecrusher69]

Hi Dave...Doing Pak Sao going forward and across or saying going back is all the same, The point is where your Pak is intercepting the (Position ) of the attack. If you cross over your centerline it violates the centerline principle . This makes it easy to counter attack cause there is an opening. Also , Am using the Pak Sao from the Wu Sao position if you move it forward then you dont have a wu sao anymore..

[Sihing73]

Hi Dave...Doing Pak Sao going forward and across or saying going back is all the same, The point is where your Pak is intercepting the (Position ) of the attack. If you cross over your centerline it violates the centerline principle . This makes it easy to counter attack cause there is an opening. Also , Am using the Pak Sao from the Wu Sao position if you move it forward then you dont have a wu sao anymore..

Mike,

I would disagree that it is the same whether projecting forward or going to the side.
When going to the side you give up space and your arm is closer to the body so you have less time to react as well as the potential to be more easily trapped.

My Wu is already extended as it will be by the elbow of my leading hand (Man Sau)
INO, while it is optimal to not cross the centerline, doing so does not necessarily violate the centerline principle.
If it did then why would the form teach to extend past the line to the shoulder?

While the Pak may start from the position of Wu, once your decide to make it a Pak then you would no longer have a WU, you would now have a Pak :)

Oh, just as an FYI my WU in the SNT does not retract but extends, it is my Fook which retracts.
Although I was taught the traditional way, my Sifu made this modification based on the actual usage one would most likely encounter.

[Neeros]

I like to pak forward and then guide it to the side and down so I can punch over my wrist. I'm no wing chun expert though. I've learned several different pak sau's, and some other sorts of slap hand/taming hands from Siu Lam Kuen gong fu.

Thanks for the video!

[stonecrusher69]

Mike,

I would disagree that it is the same whether projecting forward or going to the side.
When going to the side you give up space and your arm is closer to the body so you have less time to react as well as the potential to be more easily trapped.

My Wu is already extended as it will be by the elbow of my leading hand (Man Sau)
INO, while it is optimal to not cross the centerline, doing so does not necessarily violate the centerline principle.
If it did then why would the form teach to extend past the line to the shoulder?

While the Pak may start from the position of Wu, once your decide to make it a Pak then you would no longer have a WU, you would now have a Pak :)

Oh, just as an FYI my WU in the SNT does not retract but extends, it is my Fook which retracts.
Although I was taught the traditional way, my Sifu made this modification based on the actual usage one would most likely encounter.

Dave I would agree you give up space as you say when you move your palm across your body, but I only move it a few inches not to the shoulder like most everyone else does. If you do that its very easy for me to come straight down the centerline and hit.. Going forword is good but wing chun techniques go forword and backword which is what the SLT teaches us. If you only go forword you lose the other peice.

[Sihing73]

Dave I would agree you give up space as you say when you move your palm across your body, but I only move it a few inches not to the shoulder like most everyone else does. If you do that its very easy for me to come straight down the centerline and hit.. Going forword is good but wing chun techniques go forword and backword which is what the SLT teaches us. If you only go forword you lose the other peice.

Never said only go forward or backwards.
In the SLT do you only go to the center or does the form go to the shoulder?
Pak should, imo, always be forward and to the side. If you only go to the side without going forward then you sacrifice structure and I think you will find that your Pak is more easily compromised.
If your Pak goes backward then I would argue that it is no longer a Pak.

In the traditional manner of doing the SLT most people would have the Fook extend and the Wu retract.
I was taught this way as well.
However, in application I would argue that the Wu actually extends and the Fook retracts as it covers and rides the incoming attack.
If you opt to extend the energy into the attack then you change the Fook to a Jum or Jut and it is no longer a Fook.
Fook is one of the seeds but it is more passive and "listening" if that makes sense.
The Wu on the other hand is more dynamic and will extend unless the incoming energy is greater in which case it will retract but only in response to the incoming force. Wu does not retract on its own.

Pak by extending forward and on an angle provides greater structure and will be able to deflect the incoming attack or jam it if needed.
Having said that, in application the Pak would usually not go to the shoulder. In training it does go to the shoulder but that is because if you train movements as large you can apply them as smaller. The reverse is not always true.
Also, by being extended forward the Pak can be changed to a Taun, Gaun etc. If you do the Pak to the side you also can limit the ability to change it to anything else, there simply is not enough time to react.
Pak can be used to deflect an attack and then kind of bounce off using the incoming energy and change to a palm strike or whatever.
If you train to go to the side then you need to change your energy in order to go forward into a strike, if you train to be going forward already then you will find it easier to borrow some of the incoming force and strike forward. Perhaps hard to explain but if you are extending the Pak and a punch comes in, you use the Pak to deflect the strike slightly using structure and you kind of bounce of the incoming attack and keep moving forward to strike. If done properly there is almost no break in the Paks energy.
Try ti out on the dummy and let me know your thoughts.

[stonecrusher69]

Never said only go forward or backwards.
In the SLT do you only go to the center or does the form go to the shoulder?
Pak should, imo, always be forward and to the side. If you only go to the side without going forward then you sacrifice structure and I think you will find that your Pak is more easily compromised.
If your Pak goes backward then I would argue that it is no longer a Pak.

In the traditional manner of doing the SLT most people would have the Fook extend and the Wu retract.
I was taught this way as well.
However, in application I would argue that the Wu actually extends and the Fook retracts as it covers and rides the incoming attack.
If you opt to extend the energy into the attack then you change the Fook to a Jum or Jut and it is no longer a Fook.
Fook is one of the seeds but it is more passive and "listening" if that makes sense.
The Wu on the other hand is more dynamic and will extend unless the incoming energy is greater in which case it will retract but only in response to the incoming force. Wu does not retract on its own.

Pak by extending forward and on an angle provides greater structure and will be able to deflect the incoming attack or jam it if needed.
Having said that, in application the Pak would usually not go to the shoulder. In training it does go to the shoulder but that is because if you train movements as large you can apply them as smaller. The reverse is not always true.
Also, by being extended forward the Pak can be changed to a Taun, Gaun etc. If you do the Pak to the side you also can limit the ability to change it to anything else, there simply is not enough time to re
Pak can be used to deflect an attack and then kind of bounce off using the incoming energy and change to a palm strike or whatever.
If you train to go to the side then you need to change your energy in order to go forward into a strike, if you train to be going forward already then you will find it easier to borrow some of the incoming force and strike forward. Perhaps hard to explain but if you are extending the Pak and a punch comes in, you use the Pak to deflect the strike slightly using structure and you kind of bounce of the incoming attack and keep moving forward to strike. If done properly there is almost no break in the Paks energy.
Try ti out on the dummy and let me know your thoughts.


The forward pak sao i also do. There are different vectors of force you can do the pak sao. Each one has its own purpose.