Gong Bao Tien and Ma Gui...

[Eight_Triagram_Boxer]

OK, well, I'm trying to collect information on these Bagua Masters. I'd like to get any info I can on either or both. Also, I'm doing a lineage chart for Gong and if anyone can help me with this I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd just like to talk about these two masters in general so feel free to offer what you know up for discussion. Thanks.

~ETB

[uncle]

I believe that there is a pretty good chart made already in Sun Lu Tang's book "Mind Form Boxing", I think there are also a couple of stories in there about him.

[count]

Gong Bao Tien

http://kabooom.com/images/caligraphy/gong.jpg

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)


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[wujidude]

Wang Peisheng studied for several years with Ma Gui. His representative in the U.S. is Zhang Yun. I'd suggest e-mailing Zhang for more detail if you're interested. The website is http://www.geocities.com/ycgf/

Marc Jones has published a number of pictorial articles for Zhang Yun that lay out some of Ma Gui's palm changes and their applications in his "Internal Martial Arts Journal". Some of Ma Gui's history is included there. His website is www.sixharmonies.org (http://www.sixharmonies.org).
Other sources for bits of Ma Gui's baguazhang are the history chapter in Liang Shou-yu and Yang Jwing-ming's book on Emei baguazhang and B.K. Frantzis' book on his own martial arts meanderings (Frantzis says that his bagua guru in Beijing, Liu Hung Chieh, was a student of Ma Gui).

The following excerpt is Joe Crandall's translation of some paragraphs on Ma Gui.

"by Chen Rongliang


Ma Kuei

Ma Gui (1857-1941) was from Shandong. He was also called Shiqing. Early in his life he moved to the capitol. At the age of 18 (1875) he asked Yin Fu to be his teacher in Baguzhang. He recieved all of Yin Fu's teachings and at the same time was coached by Dong Haiquan.Thus his skills in Bagua were very deep. His outstanding use of the straight arm wrist strike was well known in the martial community. Using the wrist to strike men is a high skill of Yin Style Bagua. The wrist strikes are: Cutting Wrist, Intercepting Wrist, Stroking Wrist, Top Wrist, Plucking Wrist, Pulling Wrist, Hooking Wrist, Seizing Wrist, and Pushing Wrist. In using the Cutting Wrist, for instance, should the enemy attack with a straight strike, I use my front hand, little finger side, to cut down on the incoming wrist, then use the rear hand to attack. With the Intercepting Wrist, should the enemy use his hand to attack my head, my front hand turns inward, using the little finger side to make a strong point intercepting cut on the wrist and foil the enemy. Ma Kuei practiced his wrist striking kungfu for many years and ultimately became quite famous. Near the end of the Qing Dynasty he used his cutting wrist in the Langong Palace to break the arm of a martial arts teacher. He was made head of the palace's many martial arts instructors. He became famous in the capitol and people called him "Little Kunlun Ma Gui".

When he was 23 (1880) he started a business as a lumber merchant. When not occupied he practiced martial arts. He set up a studio where students could exchange skills. At that time Cheng Tinghua's and Liu Fengchun's men were in the capitol and would come to the Lumber shop to practice. Ma Gui also got these seniors to coach him many times. Thus his martial skills quickly advanced and became pure.

Ma Kuei did not have many students. Only one man, Cao Zhong Sheng (Yin Fu's student), recieved some tutoring . Mr Cao, with his student Lu, wrote a book in 1932 with a short chapter on Ma's life".

Joe Crandall's new website URL is http://users2.ev1.net/~stma/. You might ask him if the translation of the book on Yin Fu(Cao)style baguazhang by Zhang Jie includes information on Ma Gui. I can't find my copy.

[blacktaoist]

Yo Eight whats up? If you are free this week and have the time. We can meet up, I'll take you to meet Zhang lie brother Chen Xiaoping this sunday.You are mad cool, Also me and your sifu are real cool.

My sifu can help you out with the lineage of Ma Kui. As for cao zhongsheng, He first followed Ma Kui's student Fu wenyuan for a few years. When Cao skill got good. Fu Wenyuan recommended that cao study with his teacher MA Kui. Ma Kui taught Cao Zhongsheng for a few years, Ma Kui like Cao and taught him his point hitting method that he learned from Yin fu.
Then it come to pass that Ma Kui sent CaoZhongsheng to learn from his Teacher yin fu. Why" Ma Kui did not have to time to teach many people,also Ma kui was old school, many of his students got hurt when he taught Baguazhang. Ma Kui was renowned as a hardcore Baguazhang Teacher. To be a student under him means you had to be a warrior. Not to say that Cao Zhongsheng was not a warrior himself.

Ma Kui sent Cao to learn from Yin fu because he knew that Yin fu would teach Cao the essential points of BAGuazhang not just the point hitting method he taught him.

Cao Zhongsheng received meticulous instruction from yin fu for about Eight or ten years. Most hardcore Yin style historians will tell you eight years. Anyway give me a call to night, I 'll talk to you about this, you know how I feel about politics. Hope you enjoy the workshop see you soon. peace.

[blacktaoist]

Call me about 10pm I sould be home by then. peace

[Eight_Triagram_Boxer]

Ok, first...

Uncle: Thanks for the info. I never knew Sun wrote about him in his book. I was reluctant to get it but now I will for sure. Thanks.

Count: I've seen a picture of Gong Baotien from a video and my teacher confirmed it. This picture is very blurry and I'm not sure if it's Gong or not, perhaps you already checked this out. Still, I would like more info. I've seen a pic before. Thanks though.

Wuji dude: Thanks for the Ma info. I've been trying to contact Wang's student but he's very busy and kinda out of the way. He told me that not many of the people practice Ma's Bagua, even within their schools. I'm going to try to visit one of these days. I have Crandall's book, but there isn't that much info. I'm trying to compare Gong's style with Ma's. I'll check into the six harmony site though.

BlackTaoist: What's up man?? How are you? I'll give you a call tonight to discuss the details. I definitely want to meet your teacher. That workshop was pretty good. I know it was just a taste but I liked it nontheless. Have you ever seen Ma's style and compared it to Cao's? Is it much different?

Thanks...