The Idea of "Sticky Sword"?

[Fei Hou]

I posted this on the main forum and did not get many responses. I figured take it to our home.

I wanted to discuss the idea of "sticky sword" if it even can be applied. I am a returning student to Modified Wing Chun. Here is the question..........
How and if could you transfer the forward energy into and against your partner? What to feel for regarding openings?
To set up a example, face the center line, stay forward, and cross swords on the "Strong" ( that is located between the guard and the middle of the blade). I would think that the advantage goes to the last one that moves because the "defender" would wait to read ther energy. Most of the experience in Chi Sao leads to going with the direction of a opponents exagerated move or lack of. Inside you go up the center,to the outside and using Pak,Tan or what ever. This has lead me to strikes with the pommel or butt of the sword against the opponent.
I have been training with the Medieval Long Sword about a year and have come to a level where closing and grapling and Chi Sao techniques are required. At this range the swinging action of this type of sword changes to a short staff style called Half Swording in Historical European MA Locks, binds and disarms are at this level.
What do you think?

In addition to this topic, I have come accross this site, which maybe should be left for another day. This can't be real!!!
http://home.soneraplaza.nl/qn/prive/wengshunkuen/longsword.html

Rash words are like sword thrusts, but the words of the wise bring healing.
Proverbs

[S.Teebas]

If your asking how our chi sau sensivity techniques can translate over to your sword work, this is what i think:


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What to feel for regarding openings?
[/quote]

Nothing! If you feel somthing there is no opening, just an obsruction.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Chi Sao leads to going with the direction of a opponents exagerated move [/quote]

Nope, not in my opinion. This is chasing the opponent. Opponent may lead you into a trp if they understand this is your thinking.

There is a difference between going with the opponents direction, and taking advantage of his direction.


S.Teebas

[Fei Hou]

When I mentioned "or lack of" that is what I was refering to. I did mean as you said taking advantage of, not being led. I should choose my words more carefully. Thanks

Rash words are like sword thrusts, but the words of the wise bring healing.
Proverbs

[whippinghand]

You are talking of swords, but there is no mention of cutting...

Are you inquiring about that specific situation or "chi sau" with swords in general?

[Bessho]

:o :p
ah what the heck. i know squat about swords. but they say same thing abot sticky hands.

[jesper]

Theres a big difference in how to fight with swords depending on which type you choose.
Are we talking cutting or stabing types ?
Light or heavy swords ?
One or two handed ?

If you are a little more specific, then perhaps we can give you some pointers

[Wingtsun]

Most of what is known about this subject comes from the German swordmanuals.
Sigmund Ringeck writes that you shall notice right
in the moment the blades make contact,wether he has bound hard or soft.
And as soon as you have noticed this,you should attack the next opening immediately and nimbly,hard or soft.
He has a whole verse on the word indes-immediately.
There is no waiting,it's all about tactile reflexes.
The German Kunst des fechtens was very agressive,
Taking the initiative,maintaining it and getting it back immediately if you lose it.
Ringeck says that a defensive fencer mostly loses.

[Fei Hou]

Re: Whiping Hand
I am assuming that if i bind my opponent and lets say get to the outside he IS or HAS been cut with the closing move. As far as the idea of Chi Sau with swords I am interested to see if there are specific references to training swords to apply those same principles.

Re:Jesper.
The swords I am refering to are 15th Century Long Swords see example below.
http://www.by-the-sword.com/windlass.html
Although these are twohanded the can be handled with one. In addition, the Half Swording Technique I refered to includes grabing the blade with one hand above the guard ( some swords were not sharpened from hilt to tip) This style looks more like staff work. I am curious to hear what you have to say about lighter, swords that can be used for cut and thrust.. (tai chi) type?

Re: Wingtsun
I have read Ringeck and discussed the theary of "Defence loses" in long sword. But I am not sold. For instance if a attacker strikes with the ZornHau and you use Unterhau to counter, you would deflect the blade and "ride" it for a slash to the throat. Or just deflect and continue the Under cut.

For those of yo who may be interested I have included a few links expaining the foundation to this style. See... Long Sword
http://www.thehaca.com/talhoffer.htm

Rash words are like sword thrusts, but the words of the wise bring healing.
Proverbs

[dedalus]

I am familiar with "sticking" techniques when fighting with a staff, and in practice find them very effective.

The way I have been taught to use the straight sword, however, generally requires that sword-to-sword contact be avoided.

All of a sudden I can't figure out how to elaborate on that :(

[Wingtsun]

Fei Hou,

What you have described I would call agressive counter attacking,not defensive at all.

Wingtsun should be the same.
There are four ways an attack can happen.

Vor:attacking first,preemptive strike.

Nach:attacking after,avoiding the attack with body evasion,footwork,then counter.

Gleichfechten:Attacking at the same time.

In des fechtens:Counterattacking during your opponent's attack

Do you train with HACA?

[Fei Hou]

As a matter of fact, I do. I was affiliated with the West Point Group. I am good friends with Tim Sheetz who ran the group. Unfortunately, Tim was recently was stationed in Korea. I train (when I can) with a few of the core members of that group.Wwe all live far away from each other and stay in contact through ICQ. If you are interested please join us for some discussion,

As far as the idea of Sticky Sword, I would think if you train to feel the energy in the blade, it would apply to the last two techniques you mentioned.

Rash words are like sword thrusts, but the words of the wise bring healing.
Proverbs

[Wingtsun]

Yes,I recognize the name.
I have sent you a message.

[Fei Hou]

I did not receive it

Rash words are like sword thrusts, but the words of the wise bring healing.
Proverbs

[Wingtsun]

Ok,I used the ICQ panel on your profile page to send the message.

[joy chaudhuri]

"I wanted to discuss the idea of "sticky sword" if it even can be applied. I am a returning student to Modified Wing Chun. Here is the question..........
How and if could you transfer the forward energy into and against your partner? What to feel for regarding openings?"
-------------------------------------------
I was interested in your question thogh I ma not sure whether I can provide helpful insight. Among other reasons- i dont know the swords that you are using. I dont have a "feel" for them without holding one. But the principles of wing chun apply to empty hands and weapons as well- so do the principles of chi sao- allowing for the weight, shape and length of a weapon so that it becomes part of the hand. There is chi do- taught
authentically by very few people.chi sao later leads to chi kwan and chi do. Like the pole- if you only defend- you lose with a do.You say that you returned to
Modified Wing Chun. Sorry I dont know what that is<g>.
:D