tan sau-the most important aspect?

[vingtsunstudent]

what do you guys(gals) think is the most important part of tan sau in a real fight?
vts

[Martial Joe]

To close the gap and to get your attack in ...


Am i right?

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[Martial Joe]

It does have many uses though...

I bet most people think right away as deflection...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[rogue]

I'll wait to hear what Whipping Hand says. ;)

Signed,
Rogue, Soke and Senior Grandmaster of Southeast American Brazillian Bagua Combat Chi jitsu Kempo Karate Do and Choral Society.

The only tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, “To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

[Gluteus Maximus]

Like in an Elvis Presley movie, if a guy throws a right punch at you, you use a left tan sao and then pivot and lean right back while you c*ck your right arm and then you can lurch forward while throwing a punch at him.

Max

[whippinghand]

You sure? Here it comes.....

The strike.

[vingtsunstudent]

finally wanking hand i must agree.
although it was a trick question there is odviously no doulbt that you can't fool a fool.
vts

[S.Teebas]

Do techniques exist in a real fight?


S.Teebas

[Gluteus Maximus]

'Techniques' exist for those who want them to exist.

So whether they exist in a fight or not depends on who is fighting and their beliefs.

It also depends on how you define the word 'techniques'?

One of the definitions in the MacQuarie Dictionary is 'a way of accomplishing'. According to this definition, 'techniques' exist in every fight, because once the fight is over, something has been accomplished, ie the fight ended.

Max

[This message was edited by Gluteus Maximus on 11-19-01 at 11:01 PM.]

[whippinghand]

Which strike are you referring to?

[whippinghand]

"Do techniques exist in a real fight?"

That depends... are you a fighter or a martial artist?

[S.Teebas]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ..are you a fighter or a martial artist? [/quote]

Im someone who wants to get the job done efortlessly (at the time im fighting@!)


S.Teebas

[PaleDragon]

is a technique too...

[whippinghand]

only if it's not senseless.

[dedalus]

Sure it is... no logic in a fight.

[Marek]

Trick questions, one line replies, ego battles, this palce realy is poor for anything other than practising your flaming techniques. It seems to be the most senior posters who are the most immature in the subject of their posts. Shame really as i'm sure there is useful information to be exchanged by people who are willing to share without putting each other down. Someone point me to the real forum please.
--
maznaz

[sunkuen]

Try this one Marek!

http://www.vingtsun.com.hk/forum/default.asp.

Your'e gonna love it!!! :p

[joy chaudhuri]

I can understand part(but not all) of your views.In your profile you dont say much about yourself.I gather that you are new to the list and probably fairly new to wing chun. I am not sure who you mean by senior members.How would you know "seniority"? Actually incivilities are fairly randomly distributed.
One can learn to ignore the junk and pay attention to the better posts. This list is actually a fairly decent one when compared to many of the others. There is fairly light handed moderation and no built in agenda.
Internet communication with nuances missing +
anonymity + immaturity can create strange mixes...
but it is relative. BTW where are you learning wing chun and from whom? Regards...yuanfen(details in profile))

[whippinghand]

Well put yuenfan.

[Marek]

Maybe I was a little harsh with my original post, I just wanted to see how people would react to an attack on their forum. I have only been browsing this forum for about a month but that has given me an impression of who is senior (in wing chun terms) and the number of posts gives me the same information in terms of this forum. I am a ne wwing chun student as it says in my profile and have only trained since July. My enthusiasm is greater than my knowledge however and information gathering is my passion (despite my primary hobby which is furthering personal communication privacy). This forum is the busiest i have come accross but seems to be riddled witht eh sort of sniping and counter sniping i'm used to in encryption forums and other intensely geeky forums ;) I train in north wales under a student of master kwok and billy who instruct in manchester i believe. My sifu is a practical person who has achieved black belts in judo, karate (shukokai) and a few other disciplines i forget at the moment as well as being a head doorman (bouncer) for a local security firm. Hence some of my insights and theories might not be based entirely on wing chun despite his insistance that "it is the only fighting style that works". Thanks for the responses, I will endeavour to look harder for the diamonds in the coal ;)
reagrds,
maznaz

[Nat from UK]

I am currently working hard on SLT, I was training the different Tan Saus in SLT at my last 1-2-1 with my sifu (i have only identified 4 at the moment there may be more,(it appears more than 4 times but i have only identified 4 different ones), I spend a lot of time training the different energies each one has and understanding which one works best for different directions of attacks/sizes of opponents etc.

I think understanding a techniques limitations is as important as understanding its strengths. When not to use a technique is as important as when to use a technique.

I think the most important aspect of tan sau is knowing when it wont work!

Nat from UK

[S.Teebas]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> i have only identified 4 at the moment there may be more [/quote]

There is only one tan sau. Please explain how you see more than that??


S.Teebas

[TjD]

back to the actual subject :)

its already been said however

but the most important aspect of a tan sau in a fight; is winning the fight - everything else is unimportant

however - a more properly asked question would be about the importance of a tan sau in the kwoon,
in sparring or chi sau

if this was the case seeing as infinately many variations of tan sau can happen, being relaxed, and creating a solid strike from your tan sau would be the most important things - to teach you how to better win a fight

im sure the rest of the intelligent posters on this forum could expound even more

peace
travis

Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in

[Nat from UK]

I know there is only 1 tan sau but we train 4 different energies.

eg 1 The tan sau prior to Wu Sau Fook Sau section is a motion straight down the centre line to intercept a straight punch.

eg 2 The first tan sau section after the gum saus and side chops (i have two tan sau sections due to WSL Lineage) has a twisting motion at the very last part of the motion, this twist motion gives beter defence against larger oponents (larger think longer reach)

It may be lineage differences??

Each tan is performed with a slight difference/intent - i hope that helps as i mentioned i have only just covered Tan Sau at this depth. When ever i train on a one to one basis with my Sifu it just reinforces how little i know - Which is great!!

Nat from UK

[whippinghand]

How many tan saus.....

[joy chaudhuri]

As a "seed" or "fundamental" motions tan sau, bong and fok are the key motions. they are developed in the slt ...slowly in the first section
then variations in the later sections in normal speed.In basic rolling we learn how to move and adjust between tan, fok and bong. But the seeds give rise to many families of motions. So in possible applications there are lots and lots of tan saos-various applications where the energy is focused on the thumb side of the bridge.
"How many" depends on how you count and when and what you count. Fundamental-one. Application many.
Functions many- attacks, blocks, locks/breaks, throws as in a great kung fu system like wing chun.But if you dont learn the fundamental right,
the applications would not be as good as they can be.

[edward]

2 things... tan sau HAS to be flat... no debate about that..... also elbow has to sink perpendicular to the ground...

you get those 2 things right, your tan sau will work

[hunt1]

has to be flat? yup if you want to get hit.Do you mean the hand has to be flat?Do you mean flat in relation to th opponent or the strike that may be intercepted or both?Elbow down forearm cant be flat.If you use energy in a circular fashion then hand not flat.If tan thrusting forward then hand flat.

[This message was edited by hunt1 on 11-25-01 at 05:58 PM.]

[edward]

the hand is flat and the overall angle that should be retained is 135 degrees for the arm

[whippinghand]

Flat tan is very important. That doesn't mean that it always has to be flat (back of the hand directly facing the floor). But, generally it should end up that way.