I'm about to enter the world of wing chun...

[KungFuGuy!]

But before I do, I'd like to know a few things.

1) Not that it's overly important, but how effective is it on the street?
2) Do you train in any weapons? If so, which are normaly trained?
3) Do you think it would be a good idea to cross train in bjj?
4) How is sparring handled? How much padding, and how much contact?
5) I've been training in martial arts for ten years, mainly in taekwondo, jiu jitsu, and kempo. How hard will it be for me to adjust to wing chun?
6) How much of an emphasis is put on conditioning during an average class?
7) Most importantly, is it fun?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions, and I can assure you that they won't be my last :)

[jesper]

Ok just a few quick answers.
1) Not that it's overly important, but how effective is it on the street?
Very, if you train hard. Remember that technics are only a part of a real fight

2) Do you train in any weapons? If so, which are normaly trained?
Normaly you train with two sets of weapons; Long staff and double knife, but not until an advanced stage. Many crosstrain with other styles though. Mostly Escrima and Kali which are philipino weapon styles

3) Do you think it would be a good idea to cross train in bjj?
Do you like to wrestle, then do that. Otherwise dont. Its not necessary.

4) How is sparring handled? How much padding, and how much contact?
Depends on which lineage. Some lineages start sparring from day one, others dont spar until more advanced stages. Mostly you spar with gloves, headgear and shin protection. But it really depends on where you train

5) I've been training in martial arts for ten years, mainly in taekwondo, jiu jitsu, and kempo. How hard will it be for me to adjust to wing chun?
How good are you at adjusting? The hardest thing for many is to adjust to the close combat of WC

6) How much of an emphasis is put on conditioning during an average class?
Depends on where you train. Ask your local sifu

7) Most importantly, is it fun?
Thats really up to you. Some people like it alot, others dont. Try it out yourself

[rubthebuddha]

nuff said. ;)

-rtb

[straight blast]

I've just started Wing Chun too & to answer your most important question, it's excellent fun. It's hugely different to TKD Kempo or Jiu jutsu. Just getting a hang of the stance is hard enough! But it's worth it.
Weapons wise: Butterfly knives, Dragon Pole. But not usually until a later level of skill. And I'm actually looking into training BJJ myself once I get into it full time. Just 'cos I'm interested in wrestling/grappling stuff.
And I am a sparring addict myself, coming from a Muay Thai background. The style of WC I do usually encourages you to learn the basics before attempting to use them in combat. But other groups are different.
Conditioning comes with time.
Get into it. I'm so glad I did. :cool:

"Forfeit the game
Before somebody else takes you out of the frame
And puts your name to shame
Cover up your face
You can't run the race
The pace is too fast,
You just won't last!"

[El_CLap]

Why would you think that it's not important that it's not effective?

To answer your question, I've met WC guys who could fight, and those who could chi sao. Don't look lose the forest for the trees.

[old jong]

A good place to look
http://home.pon.net/tparker/wingchun/FAQ/WCKFAQ.htm#what is wing chun ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[KungFuGuy!]

Thanks for answering my questions guys.

It is important, it's just not the most important thing.

[edward]

1) Not that it's overly important, but how effective is it on the street?

nothing is better than wing chun in the street, its economy of motion. You can
fight inside a phone booth if you need to.

2) Do you train in any weapons? If so, which are normaly trained?

yes, pole and swords.. but these are all used to improve your sticky hands.

3) Do you think it would be a good idea to cross train in bjj?

cross training is a waste of time.. Cross train only if your wing chun is limited..
otherwise, wing chun answers all questions

4) How is sparring handled? How much padding, and how much contact?

you don't need to hit to be effective, real skill is going full force stopping just before the hit.

5) I've been training in martial arts for ten years, mainly in taekwondo, jiu jitsu, and kempo. How hard will it be for me to adjust to wing chun?

Slightly hard, but if you drop your ego it'll be easier to grasp.... As yoda said... you must unlearn
what you've learned.

6) How much of an emphasis is put on conditioning during an average class?

Wing Chun is a lazy man's art... if your sweating too much, then its not wing chun.. its effortless.

7) Most importantly, is it fun?

Depends on your teacher... not all wing chun is wing chun.... there are different levels of wing
chun being taught to the public.

Thanks in advance for answering my questions, and I can assure you that they won't be my last

check our link for further helpful tips

http://www.windycitywingchun.com/articles/articles13.html

[Kaitain(UK)]

"nothing is better than wing chun in the street, its economy of motion. You can
fight inside a phone booth if you need to."

I disagree - the best thing for the street is experience and no conscience.

Here's a tip for you

Quoted above is the stereotypical WC arrogant attitude that you must try really hard to avoid - otherwise you're going to get a beating at the hands of someone who has experience of streetfighting. Generally the people who have a clue on this board don't carry that attitude at all.

Cross training is always a good thing if it isn't contradictory to your main art. Grappling is in no way inhibitory to Wing Chun - if you get jumped from behind and dragged to the floor it's always useful to know how to get up again.

Until you've been hit really hard you don't have a clue about fighting. If you spar without full contact then it is worthless - catch a full power body shot once and you learn that you've got two seconds to hit them back before you have to let the pain out. You also need to learn to hit another person properly - there are times when you think the hit would work - when you actually try and put power into it you realise something isn't correct. Fighting with full contact also raises your mental toughness - if you've taken a few hits then that's one less thing to freak you out when you get into a fight.

You won't find it difficult to learn as long as you keep your cup empty. Experience of any art is valuable as your spacial awareness will be strong. Fighting at close range isn't that alarming after the first few times.

I'd also argue that the purpose of the knives and pole training are to raise intention in training, improve arm speed(maybe), and to increase waist power and flexibility. Sticky hands is best improved with form work and sticky hands practice.

Incidentally - I don't train WC - I train Taiji and Karate but I train with a few WC guys. We talk a lot about MA in general so I know I'm not off the ball with anything I've said. I just felt compelled to post after reading that quote...

"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

[edward]

thank you for making my point..

[Kaitain(UK)]

typical answer - you don't train BJJ yet you declare it has no value for WC

instead of dismissing me out of hand - why not try answering my points? I train 6 hours a week with WC people and have done for over a year now. I know a fair bit about it thanks.

"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

[edward]

normally i don't waste my time answering post like this but i'm bored this morning......

frankly, i'm answering the guy who posted, not you.. if you want to practice, tai chi, karate, tae bo whatever.. go right ahead. If you want to cross train I could care less.

And you quote, "Until you've been hit really hard you don't have a clue about fighting" thus with that mentalitty, how do you know if fire hurts? Do i have to touch a burning stove to know that it'll hurt. Maybe I do. How do I know if a gun will kill somebody? Do i have to take a gun an shoot someone to make sure it works.. Hmmmm, yes that is making sense.

I train 6 hours a week with WC people and have done for over a year now. I know a fair bit about it thanks.

Wow, a whole 6 hours a week... Then let's make this simple, wing chun for dummies question for you..

1) why is the wing chun punch so important?
2) when you punch do you hit with the entire fist or bottom 3 knuckles
3) Is there a vertical and horiztonal motion in the center line punch?
4) what leads the motion in the punch?
5) should you squeeze hard at the end of a punch?
6) why is the wing chun punch at an angle?

that should be easy enough..

and yes, I'm having fun at your expense. so don't take it to seriously.. :)

[Kaitain(UK)]

lets see - 6 hours push hands and free sparring a week for over a year - conservative estimate of 300 hours sparring with WC people. So I know how WC applies in a fight (2 different styles I've sparred) - in conversation over the years with one of my best friends we shoot the breeze about MA a lot.

On the gun/stove analogy - could you guarantee being able to function having been shot? If it were possible to be shot 'safely' (I know it sounds dumb but it makes sense to me) then you'd be able to find out. Likewise - if you haven't taken a few whacks then you really cannot say how you'll react, and therefore you cannot really have confidence that what you have will work. I know what it feels like to take an overhand/uppercut/body hook to the floating ribs - if I hadn't have felt that, I wouldn't know now that if someone lands a hard body shot on me I only have a couple of seconds to end the fight before I'm incapacitated. There are inherent risks to sparring like that, but if you want your art to work then you have to train like that sometimes.

some answers :)
1) because I know it won't ever be circular so I can use circular blocks all the time
2) when I punch I punch with my whole body - plus I hook and overhand which use different striking surfaces. With a straight punch I hit with the bottom three...
3) once I've stuck to it there's no motion at all excpet the one I dictate
4) for me it's the waist
5) nope, I have a soft fist (no tension). The whip in my punches comes from my waist recoil. My WC friends make analogy to grapping a piece of cotton - a momentary tension. Bit like fa-jing.
6) because I'm taller than my friends

seriously though - it's all WC mechanics which I don't feel apply and I don't know you're correct WC answer to (largely because the answer is different depending on which WC guy I speak to :P)

"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

[edward]

Let's see, I've watched over 5 years of the TV show ER, and that's including re-runs. I
play the board game operation when I'm bored, and 5 days a week I watch general hospital
and talk to it with my wife whose a doctor. So yes, in a way, I believe I can probably
operate on someone.

Martial arts isn't about getting hurt. What does a half ass upper cut to the body prove?
You can take a half ass upper cut and still function? Why not let your partner give 100% hit
and see if you can take it. If your partner hits you 100% and you go down, then what did you
learn? That it hurts?

Well, those questions asked were wing chun questions but your answers are anything but wing
chun answers. Why not ask your buddies to see if they can even answer it. I mean you
did say your familar with the art. And these are very basic questions. As for different answers your right, there maybe different
answers... but there's right and wrong wing chun. And the answers I expect are right.

[Sharky]

"4) How is sparring handled? How much padding, and how much contact?

you don't need to hit to be effective, real skill is going full force stopping just before the hit."


WTF???

I am SO with kaitain. this is typical wc arrogance.

=================================
What we really need is chicks with a whole new kinda orifice - Fish

Sharky, I should expect this level of immaturity from you after seeing your post titled "Hm." regarding the woman that lives next door to you. I think everyone who unfortuneatly read that post is a bit more ignorant now for doing so. - Spectre

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[rubthebuddha]

being able to stop before making contact may require skill, but is that helpful in combat? i don't think so. when fighting, much of your control goes out the door and only what you have in muscle memory comes out. if you train to stop your punches before contact, then your attacker will be quite thankful that the fak sau that almost took his head off just happened to stop right before his throat.

however, if you train to follow through on your punches, then you'll follow through.

practicing one thing in a controlled environment repeatedly and expecting to behave differently in the heat of a fight isn't going to work. how many stories have we heard of successful martial artists who get clobbered in a street fight because they were stunned that their attacker didn't bow first or the referee (bartender?) didn't say begin first or that the attacker immediately began flailing wild punches at their head instead of setting up in stance and striking only to designated targets? i've heard more than my share, and it's sad that people who work so hard to be good at what they do shut down because things in the bar or street are different from the controlled training environment they're used to.

i know what it's like. once when someone tried to mug me in the restroom at a concert i froze - my body had no idea what to do. i wasn't padded up, the attacker didn't bow, and the ref didn't give us permission to fight. i was the proverbial deer in the headlights. i got luckythough, because someone else entered the restroom while i was stalling the mugger, the mugger turned, and i straight up clocked him. but had it not been for that distraction, i think i'd have been toast.

anyhoo, once again, i'm two cents poorer.

-rtb

[wingchunalex]

1-very effective, simple, direct, im 135lbs and won agaist a 230lbs guy in full contact.
2-only the butterfly knives and arnes sticks
3-bjj is not that good in my oppinion, japanese is more brutal and more effective and works better with wing chun, aikijutsu is good if you want some ground stuff.
4-at my school we rairly go with pads, only if its really heavy contact. usually we do moderate pace sparring to work on technique, sometimes slow to really practice technique, every ounce in a while with head gear and pads.
5-at my school we have had converts too, most importantly is to relax and stay on center. it may be hard to break the jumpiness habbit ive seen in t.k.d., and the "use strength" habbit of styles like karate.
6-lots on abs (to take heavy blows), spinting, iron forarm and palm. lots of puching practice.
7-yes its very fun. its a lot more relaxed and easy and not as stressful as t.k.d. its still. its also fun when you start chi sau. but sparring is more useful and better, just a point to remeber, chisau is the bridge between forms and fighting.

know yourself don't show yourself, think well of yorself don't tell of yourself. lao tzu

[vingtsunstudent]

kaitain-you've sparred against wing chun guys so you know how they move.
i don't think so, sparring is different from the way a wing chun man should move, in reality there is no holding back.
whilst practicing wing chun i have never sparred, wing chun not only teaches you how to move it teaches you how to think(ie mindset)
as i have said before, i was a bouncer for several years & had more fights than i care to remember(yes some were with drunks but a hell of a lot were not, also some against more than one person) & in no way did i ever find that sparring would have made any difference.
hey, i'll be the first to admit that i've been hit, hell, i've been kinghit, headbutted,kicked in the balls, bitten(twice) and had injuries to go with them but if you think your not going to get hit then you are dreaming.
what am i trying to say?
THINK- learn to understand your system, learn to understand & apply the lessons learnt from chi sao(and how they can bridge the gap between training & fighting)and above all else prepare yourself mentally so that when it's GO time you are the most savage beast, with no thought of self, that the world has ever seen.
if you are not committed 100% to fighting your opponent then you shouldn't be there.
no matter what way you look at it sparring is a game, which has rules, & fighting is not.
sorry, i should mention that we practice drills that we hope also help bridge the gap between training & fighting but they are in no way sparring, nor do they allow you to have to hold anything back.
vts

[Sharky]

actually, japanese jiujustsu doesn't complement wing chun very well AT ALL

=================================
What we really need is chicks with a whole new kinda orifice - Fish

Sharky, I should expect this level of immaturity from you after seeing your post titled "Hm." regarding the woman that lives next door to you. I think everyone who unfortuneatly read that post is a bit more ignorant now for doing so. - Spectre

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[rogue]

"you don't need to hit to be effective, real skill is going full force stopping just before the hit."

Yeah, that'll show those bad guys whats up! :eek:

Signed,
Rogue, Soke and Senior Grandmaster of Southeast American Brazillian Bagua Combat Chi jitsu Kempo Karate Do and Choral Society.

The only tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, “To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."