Ok. made some new clips, feedback please!!!

[gazza99]

I have made a few new clips, and tried to slow down and make everything a bit larger frame so you can tell whats happening. Also I took a lesson from Pattersons site, and went step by step on how the techniques are done. If anyone has a cable/dsl/T1 line I would appreciate any input (bad or good) on these instructional clips. The other clips are done at medium speed, and of course light contact just to demo the movement. So the rest of you with 56K can download those easily. Fa-jing clip #2 and #4 are short, they are techniques based on Erle Montaigues "fa-jing chuans" (explosive energy fists) I simply changed it by adding a neck shot and a "wrap the moon" technique at the end along with breaking the collor bone instead of striking down into it at St 11.

Please be constructive, as my ego is terribly fragile and I might just cry if your mean...
thanks
Gary

<A HREF="http://pressurepointfighting.com/public_html/dim_mak_taiji_video.htm" TARGET=_blank>video clips

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
<A HREF="http://www.pressurepointfighting.com" TARGET=_blank>www.pressurepointfighting.com[/URL

[This message was edited by Gary on 11-05-01 at 07:17 PM.][URL=null]null</A>

[This message was edited by Gary on 11-05-01 at 07:18 PM.]

[This message was edited by Gary on 11-05-01 at 07:19 PM.]

[Martial Joe]

Are you the skinny white boy?

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[Martial Joe]

I am looking at the 12mb one right now...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[gazza99]

You have something against skinny white boys? I thought you had a sight, and you were an even skinnier white boy?

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

[Martial Joe]

That looks kinda like wing chun.
Seems cool.


I AM BIGGER THEN GARY!!!

Well yeah...I guess I am a skinny white boy...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[dedalus]

Very nice, Gary... I like the others you've had up for a while, too :)

[gazza99]

Thanks Dadalus and Joe...
Im also working on the pressure point charts for the 12 main meridians, I have all the charts up, but Im working brief descriptions. If anyone finds these usefull, or could help me make them more usefull Id appreciate any advice..
Gary

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

[Sharky]

joe isn't skinny

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[Wongsifu]

i have a 56k modem :(

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

that's ok i'm sitting at an isp with no limit to my bandwidth on my machine and it's still downloading slow.

ok . . not as slow as it would from home, but still taking forever compared to most servers.

where's my beer?

[Wongsifu]

nice clips, have you ever thought of learning more tai ji under another teacher apart from earle montague ??? I dont like being rude im just wondering , obviously if you post up video clips you will get people who judge them.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[Sharky]

i don't think a lot of that stuff would work, sorry.

Edd

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i think that it's allot better that you are using that big black dude instead of a little fat kid that didn't even try half assed to do a throw properly before you knocked him down.

he looks like he could hurt me . .. and you . . but i could be wrong about the latter.

i think these clips are a step up from what you had up before (not that i could do better but i don't have any up to be made fun of) in that they are more informative in what you are doing and show what is actually taking place with the movements. but what sharkey said has some merrit. some of the techniques looked like they had too many movements to be pulled out of your ass when a guy like that is really coming at you. they also look like they would take too long to perform, but remembering how fast you were in some of your previous clips that could probably be accomodated. i think you shoudl show off your speed more in these clips, just to show off a little, and to let us see how the same techniques you broke down would look at full speed. you could do it fast at the end of your clip or even have a seperate clip of the same technique all out.

where's my beer?

[qeySuS]

i'm skinny .. (just jumping on the bandwagon!)

Free thinkers are dangerous!

[Wongsifu]

i used to be skinny !!Then i found out that when i do internal correctly and weight train even once every 2 weeks i put on a hell of a lot of muscle for that 1 ever 2 weeks.
So now im just skinny with a bit of muscle :D

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[Fish of Fury]

wish i was skinny!

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

[Braden]

Gary - Great clips. Thanks. :)

Wong - What specifically did you find lacking that made you remark about Erle's teaching in such a fashion?

GDA - One of the things to note about the techniques he's showing is how the side-to-side motion of the waist causing each movement to "load" the next movement. If you watch him demonstrate the fundamental movement practice alone, you can see how fast he can do the movements. In actual application, that's how it's done, the whole bang-bang-bang happens in an instant - and you just kind of smash everything that you touch. He alluded to this briefly in the clip where he showed that the second -bang- would just as _naturally_ parry/control an incoming attack as it would be an attack itself.

[Wongsifu]

braden i dont like doing this , but its not anything wrong with gary , its that gary could do so much better learning real tai ji. The techniques are fine , one of them had a little bit of a tai ji antithesis where his beginning fighting stance had a very bent elbow, but jeez man thats nothing. ITs just that erle knows his theory really really well but his taiji sucks.
I always wondered about him, until i saw his fajing demo's and they arent fa jing.The same way that gary's movements arent fa jing.
Im not saying i can do it 100% right and soo much better,i cant.
its just that its a shame to have someone who is so dedicated , stay with something that is really off the real method.
generally fa jing in tai ji is expressed by chan si jing coiling energy, the way the waist coils and supplies the power out to the shoulder or elbow.
In hsing yi it is a straight explosion. But when it explodes it really does, erle has a wonderful method of describing this , but he cant do it , it might have power but its not tai ji.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[Braden]

There's nothing wrong with honest criticism. It should happen more often. It helps keep people, well... honest.

What don't you like about Erle's fajing? Just that you can't see the coiling? What first caught my eye about Erle's fajing is that essentially everyone else out there demonstrated fajing as being a giant push that sent people sprawling, or rocketed them into the air, while Erle was just about the only person who said that was nonsense.

What do you think?

[Wongsifu]

what i didnt like about erle fa jing was that it was a simple punch with heavy intent put into it, had this been say a wing chun inch punch the way he did it would be fine had his arm been straight out.
but the mechanics of how he did it just wasnt tai ji fa jing ,even though fa jing is a tottally over used word in my opinion. Since fa jing is explosive energy you could say but it was fa jing yes , but not in a tai ji concept. Also the other thing that made me say its not real fa jing is that , no matter wether we like it or not , the fact that we say real fa jing puts the energy into the person and causes internal damage and its not visible on the outside is quite a lot of bull, in my opinion, if we place the intent to bounce the oponent with our fajing movement then he will go flying , if we use our intent to focus the energy into the opponent he will suffer internal damage. Had erle used internal fajing, regardless of wether the pad is there or not the person holding it would really feel pain in his hand as the "shockwaves"&"chi" does actually penetrate the pad. Alternatively had it been powerful fajing to bounce the pad , the pad would have gone flying back. NEither of which i really saw.
All this aside i have to say that i like the fact that erle stresses the fighting side of his tai ji more than 90% of modern practitioners.but then again you could say this comes from a misconception about the art, if you practise tai ji for long enough you can see that it is structured in a unique way which is very different from the normal concept of block a punch and attack or block a punch and redirect force into a throw, the diference between tai ji and other arts in fighting concept is miles away and too difficult i believe to be able to get a picture of it without practising for many years.
btw how long have you been practising for braden ? i notice bagua is listed in your profile.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[Braden]

Wong - I agree with most of what you said, although you really never specified what Erle does that you don't like, but that's fine.

As for fajing, I think on some accounts you're wrong. My teacher can demonstrate fajing mechanics on me without causing much harm. I have to believe Erle can to. On his demos, he does indeed send the focus mit sailing back. Can he make it sail back with more force when he tries? Can he cause internal damage when he tries? Obviously, he wouldn't try to do either of these things in a harmless demo. But can he do them? All the people I've met who've touched hands with him say he can. I haven't myself, so I can only take their word on it; and/or extrapolate based on my other impressions of Erle.

[chokeyouout2]

Those video's are funny.

When you'r telling one of your little stories, here's a idea; Have a point, it makes it so much more interesting for the reader.

[Sam Wiley]

My computer is a bit slow to download all of them, but I liked the one I did get. I like the direction you are headed with instructional clips, Gary. Very nice.

WongSifu,

First, I don't want to start an argument, but I would like you to point me in the direction of what you consider to be real fa-jing, either video clips on the net or video documentation where I can see for myself. Those few people I have seen claim to have it have been in my opinion, full of it.

Second, the fa-jing quan methods that Erle teaches were only taught traditionally to students who had pretty much mastered all the basics. They are the beginning of more advanced techniques, leading the practitioner into point striking. They also lead into non-technique, where the hands move without the practitioner having to conciously direct them. At the level these techniques are taught, block and attack meld into one, and attack and counterattack rebound quickly off of each other. However, it has been theorized that these forms were some of the first invented in Taiji. Doing the forms the way Erle Montaigue instructs enables one to strike with almost pinpoint accuracy to vital points with explosive power without concious thought and also raises the energy level of the practitioner, as well as making him or her feel well. It has been theorized that these forms were the original dim-mak forms from Chang San-feng. Comparing these forms with the 12 circular palm methods, we see work with particular qigong methods and meridian specific healing properties, as well as energy building and some other side effects like those martial effects mentioned above. We also see more in depth knowledge of acupuncture crop up, as well as more sophisticated combination strikes. If we look at these forms, many postures within them are almost exactly the same as postures found in Taiji and Bagua. Further down the line, we see the qi disruption material worked into the system, this time with longer forms. The first 6 forms of the system are explosive, while the last 6 are explosive and slow qigongs interspersed. What we now see is more akin to what we now know as Taiji, complete with 12 different push hands methods, some of which make the qi disruption movements part of the technique, and all of which are extremely similar to modern push hands. While before, the forms were also san shou methods for learning how to fight, we now see separate training methods from the forms. According to this theory, it is sometime after this stage in development that Taiji was introduced to the Chen village...and you know the rest.

Let me state one theory I have held for a while. We know for a fact that some Taiji teachers taught one group one thing and another group another thing, and a few of their best students were taken aside for advanced instruction. What exactly do people think these students were given? More of the same crap that they were fed for years before? What was it they were given that made them superior fighters even to others who practiced the same style?

*********

[Sam Wiley]

By the way, Wongsifu, one of the tests to become an instructor in Erle's system involves a test of your fa-jing to see if it is real. There are 4 strikes you must perform on the focus mitt, and you must bounce it away from about 1-3 inches. In addition, on his web site, you can find the requirements for rank in the WTBA, and one of the requirements for 3rd degree black sash is to test the physical power behind your fa-jing, requiring you to be able to break a one inch pine board with a punch from, 8 inches away.

*********

[gazza99]

I can appreciate good honest critisism, thanks! Let me address a few points some of you made.

Sharky: Thanks for being honest, your dead wrong, and the fact that I am alive to type this is proof!, but at least you were honest!

GDA: Great feedback, I did the faster clips without full speed so people could see the movement, had I done the technique with fa-jing it would have been much faster and more minute. So it would have been harder to see, as the technique takes a second or less to excute. I could do the accuall full up fa-jing version as well, less the wrap the moon techniques, as that done at full speed would cause obvious neck injury.

Wongsifu: Thank you for you honesty, faulty as some of your points are, I appreciate your views, and if you were correct, I would have been happy to recieve your advice. I always keep an open mind, thats what learning is all about!!!

"ITs just that erle knows his theory really really well but his taiji sucks."

I have yet to meet or see anyone who was better, seeing Erle demonstrate anything in person is amazing.

"one of them had a little bit of a tai ji antithesis where his beginning fighting stance had a very bent elbow"

Of course I am aware you should keep your elbow past 90 degrees, however in real life its more likely I will be holding a beer at the time someone attacks me, so its best to practice from a less than ideal position, sometimes I even drop the lead hand on purpose to sharpen my reaction time.
"Im not saying i can do it 100% right and soo much better,i cant."

I think you can either do fa-jing or you cant, and if you cant- you definately cannot recognize it in others. Especially without accually touching hands with the person. As they say the less you see on the outside the more thats going on in the inside!

"generally fa jing in tai ji is expressed by chan si jing coiling energy, the way the waist coils and supplies the power out to the shoulder or elbow. In hsing yi it is a straight explosion"

Accually jings are not limited to expression by the art in which they are mainly found. Chan sui jing for example is of course in taiji as well as the straight version fa-jing (seen alot in xing-I). You are speaking of a combination, as once you use coiling it is now chan siu jing and not just straight fa-jing .

"what i didnt like about erle fa jing was that it was a simple punch with heavy intent put into it"

Erles fa-jing is translated into many things, not just the punch.

"Also the other thing that made me say its not real fa jing is that , no matter wether we like it or not , the fact that we say real fa jing puts the energy into the person and causes internal damage and its not visible on the outside is quite a lot of bull, in my opinion, if we place the intent to bounce the oponent with our fajing movement then he will go flying , if we use our intent to focus the energy into the opponent he will suffer internal damage. "

You just contradicted yourself here. First you state that a punch done to cause internal damage is not visible on the outside is "bull" but then you state you can focus intent to make him bounce or to make him suffer internal damage.

It seems to me you are making the point that pure fa-jing can have intent focused to do internal damage -agreed) you also state it can make you opponent bounce away-agreed as well, also to make him bounce you are using a bit of an-jing, by exploding into him and maintaining a good root conection after -you will easily do internal damage AND send him flying. Of course you can do one, the other, or both. Its just a combination of jings.

"Had erle used internal fajing, regardless of wether the pad is there or not the person holding it would really feel pain in his hand as the "shockwaves"&"chi" does actually penetrate the pad. "

I personally have felt Erle create this shockwave, and my students have noticed it when I punch the pad as well.

"Alternatively had it been powerful fajing to bounce the pad , the pad would have gone flying back. NEither of which i really saw. "

I am unable to download Erles clip for some reason, but I am speaking from what I have seen/felt in person. Trust me If Erle had intended on "bouncing" the pad he would have, ive seen him do it many times.

Naturally I am going to defend my teacher here, but If you can point me in a better direction I would be more than willing to find another teacher,or buy an instructional tape to compare and contrast with, etc..

Its really just so hard to compare and contrast different ideas of jings etc. over the internet. Your idea of fa-jing may be different than mine, but in person the definitions may be the only thing that differs, Like I told GDA I did not do any technique on the site in a fa-jing manner, had I done so they would take a second or less to execute and the technique would just be an almost indicernable blurr. I find if I slow down enough you can tell the purpose of the movement, and if you already know fa-jing you can apply it. I was going to say more but I just read Sams posts and I think he covered the rest..thanks Sam !!
Kind Regards,
Gary

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

[bamboo_ leaf]

Sam is your teacher the same as Gary’s.

Just wondering?

I understand what Wong Sifu was talking about.
As for my opinion, Gary looks like he uses too much movement.

I think if you have really good listening skills the movements tend to be simpler.

What do you think of this site.

www.yichuankungfu.com (http://www.yichuankungfu.com)

bamboo leaf

[This message was edited by bamboo_ leaf on 11-06-01 at 07:45 PM.]

[gazza99]

"As for my opinion, Gary looks like he uses too much movement.

You are exactly right, I am using too much movement, If I was not, it would be extremely difficult to see what was happening. As a result these techniques were done in a large frame manner.
Gary

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

[Sam Wiley]

Ah, I've seen that Yi Ch'uan site before. I'd have to meet the guy to make a real decision, but the site is interesting.

I have to really exaggerate waist movement for my students to pick it up, as it's very fine, nearly imperceptible now. All that's noticable is the explosion, not the cause. Supposedly, the shake starts out as a large body movement and progresses to ever finer stages. Maybe I'll be able to just touch someone one day and the explosion will be imperceptible too, yet they will fly back as if I had shoved them.

Remember that Gary is trying to show the movements where people can learn them. They're not simple demos with no explanation, they're a teaching medium.

From my experience in using fa-jing in fighting, I can tell you that it does not look that way when I do it for real. When I practice a training method, it is a much larger movement than when I use it for real. In training, it's a very definite explosion, but in a fight, it's much subtler. I have no idea why, as I always thought it would be the same, but it's not. As a matter of fact, the last time I was in a fight, I distinctly remember using Push to shove the guy up against a wall. The thing is I barely touched him, and yet he still went backwards. Once my hands made contact, they moved forward maybe an inch total, and it was as if I had run into him.

I taught the Hammer Hands push hands method to one of my students today, and had to really exaggerate the movement for him. Once I really started turning the waist into the moves, he noticed exactly what I was doing. It just has to be done really largely for people to learn, but it will always be done smaller in practice, and from my experience at least, even smaller in real life.

*********

[Sam Wiley]

Oh, and yes, I am one of Erle Montaigue's students.

*********

[nospam]

Gary, as per your request, I viewed your vids and here's my initial response.

Single step or single movement techniques are in my opinion a waste of time. I realise the intent of showing single movement demonstrations, but unless the 'attacker' is wholeheartedly trying to hurt the presenter, it's crap. I watched your 'attackers' and at no time were they selling their strikes. The one fellow, jumped to the ground right after his strike.

Plus, your attackers were very elemental in their movement while you were allowed a much more dynamic response, again, not realistic.

I like the videos and don't get me wrong, I am not criticising you or your style. From the videos I watched, I could not discern whether you guys are good or not. You seemed to be very light on your feet, which to me is not a good thing re: root and generating maximal power.

Hopefully you are not offended, and even if you are, some day I will be posting vids on my website and you can hack at me :-) I appreciated the opportunity to watch your style.

nospam.

[joedoe]

I didn't like them. But then again, I don't know much about tai chi.

I didn't think they were that realistic, however MA demos rarely ever are.

At least you have the balls to put your own techniques up on display for others to watch and criticise.

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[gazza99]

-Thanks Nospam, I am not offended at all I agree that unless the attacker is wholeheartedly trying to attack it IS crap in the sense that is does not effectivly demo my ability to be truly effective with the technique.
Again good observation about the lack of root, I did not want to gain ANY power from the techniques, as I do not wish to harm anyone.

-I appreciate your brutal honest opinion Abandit!
regards,
Gary

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

[Nexus]

Gary.

I would just like to commend you for taking the criticism so well, and really being mature about the whole sharing and learning about the arts that we do.

Also I found the clips to be good, and I am not exactly sure what people are expecting to see in the videos, perhaps some 45+ year practitioner whose moves are perfect in every way. Oh well, people will always have their opinions.

Good work!

- Nexus

[dedalus]

I agree with Nexus - reading this thread has been pretty interesting, all the better seeing as it hasn't degenerated into insults.

I'm a little bit surprised by the comment that there is too much movement in those clips... I know that some are exagerrated, but the others on the site done at close to full speed were a blur when I first looked at them - I'm certainly not capable of all that stuff yet, and I haven't met more than a few people who are. I had to watch some over and over just to see where the transitions were.

I also understand these to be training methods, and as demos they are of course going to make the attack look contrived - it is! Who knows what the hell Gary would do to someone who was going ape**** at him!

The only thing I didn't really like was the throw at the end. It certainly was executed quickly (to the extent that I thought it looked dangerous for the guy assisting you), but something about it I don't like - throws in general, I guess. Was this something you added Gary, or is it part of the original training technique?

[tnwingtsun]

Sam,if you are close to Atlanta stop by and see my Sifu's younger brother,YK Wong,that guy can generate some power(tell em Chattanooga sent cha).
His is the fighting Tai Chi,I think you'll like it.


bamboo leaf,YK has studied under(among others)
the guy that you posted a link to.

YK's link

http://www.mindspring.com/~leoht/

[Wongsifu]

good posts, all in all i dont know of any videos or teachers in the states that may be near you to see ...

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[gazza99]

Yeah, as I stated in the first post I added the throw, it just came naturally at the end of the technique, I sort of like throws, but only on mondays and wedsdays, and only between 200PM-832PM. Also in the original training method the palm strike comes down into the collor bone at ST 11, this might have better illustrated chan sui jing. But I like to break collor bones upwards, and I like throws as outlined above...
Gary

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

[Kaitain(UK)]

I've only watched the first two clips so far (downloading third one as I type)

My query is based on basic fight strategy

You and your opponent are both left side forwards - he throws a lead jab and you use your lead left to bridge/strike his arm before using your right to strike the straight arm and then using your left to strike the collarbone

I don't see how that works against even a basic 1-2 combination - left jab, right jab or left jab-right hook. To me you're hand chasing...

Being honest with yourself - if you throw a 1-2 with fa-jing you know how fast and hard that second punch will come in - I don't believe the strike to the arm will register in time to prevent the second hit coming through on your unprotected side.

Just watched clip 3 - this time you use a right inwards block to his lead left which is a sounder technique.

I wonder why you seem to treat your arms as 'single shot' weapons - i.e. in clip 3 you use your right to guide the left jab across his body (jamming the potential cross I was moaning about above) - but then you switch to your left again. Surely the sound technique is to follow up his arm with your right and strike to the neck/head - keeping the left in reserve in case something goes wrong.

A lot of your techniques seem to be predicated on succesful hits and therefore not being countered - I fear you're setting yourself up to get nailed by someone with basic hand skills. i.e. as you guide the left jab the opponent folds to his elbow and covers with his right, takes your backfist and rolls his elbow over the top.

Just some constructive criticism, be interested to hear your thoughts

"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

[bamboo_ leaf]

tnwingtsun,

thanks if I get down that way I might stop by. I do have a good friend in S-mantis. R.Haygood you might have heard of him.


Many high level people here in SF can do these type of movements. The difference is how they are really done and what people think they see.

I think Sam can also do these types of movements.

What happens is that the people are actually falling into the person doing the movement. The explosion that Sam talked about is the ability to add your energy at the right time in accordance with their direction of movement to help them out. Like some one pulling your chair out as your sitting you catch this and start to stand, the same person adds to the movement of your standing and you end up flying back or out.

There are many aspects and lots of training before this idea can be used. I think it’s a very different way of looking at things. It is also why so many never realize the TC they are looking for. They’re to busy doing something or wanting to do something. This I believe is what W.Sifu was talking about.

What I meant about to much movement. Its not how fast something is done it’s the ability to change with the opponent before he/she can sense the change.
Following is leading, leading is following. Having this ability allows movements to be very simple but effective, as they are reactions based on what the other is doing. Not what we want to do.

As Gary mentioned there are different frame sizes in TC based on style and ability of the player.
The bigger the frame the easier to catch the idea of movement. Smaller frame styles are very hard to really get the idea but may be a little more effective when used.

As many have said it says a lot for some one to post their movements and ask others to judge them.

bamboo leaf

[gazza99]

Great points Kaitan,I have pondered the same ones myself!Keep in mind these are training techniques, mainly designed to train correct waist movement and teach the student how to generate fa-jing. (Hence the large frame wais movements) If you can pull these off in training when we accually throw full speed/power attacks, the simple stuff becomes even easier!
The first one you speak of is predicated on the fact that your opponent has not thrown a punch, but has only brought there arm into an on gaurd position and is simply in range of attack, at that point the method attacks them, because the arm is the only thing in range to strike without taking a step, but In a second or less the whole technique can be done and the arm shots are simply a set up while you are stepping into a good striking range.

The other one you mentioned is showing how the same training movement may be applied to a punch, while in reality your correct, it would be easier to continue the right hand block into the temple or whatever, in fact we have a few sudden violence methods which begin exactly in that manner. But for training sake we switch to the left backfist to train the waist in a reverse type strike (ie the waist in turning right and the backfist flicks out the the left.

"A lot of your techniques seem to be predicated on succesful hits and therefore not being countered - I fear you're setting yourself up to get nailed by someone with basic hand skills. i.e. as you guide the left jab the opponent folds to his elbow and covers with his right, takes your backfist and rolls his elbow over the top."

In this case you are correct, but when the whole of the technique takes a second or less to execute,especially if its used offensively IS terribly hard to counter, even if your opponent is told ahead of time exactly what you are going to do. When teaching these we put on pads, and try them full speed, while the training partener is aware of what is going to happen, he/she is supposed to try and counter. If its done correctly in a fa-jing manner it is extremely difficult to avoid the strike, and even more difficult to try and counter. Also keep in mind I do not teach children, and I only test myself on these with people that have 10 yrs+ martial arts exp. But when It comes down to it, Id rather use the most simple direct method, and not the whole of the training method. These direct methods or "non-techniques" as Erle calls them are better expressed in the sudden violence, than in the fa-jing chuans demo'd.

Anyhow , thanks for the constructive critique! Thats the sort of thing I can appreciate, live, learn, and gain more perspective, thats what its all about...
Gary

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

[Sam Wiley]

Ummm...just a test.

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ape****

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[Sam Wiley]

Okay...I don't completely understand, but okay.

Anyway, I used to live around the corner from YK Wong, believe it or not. I lived off of Indian Trail Road about a year ago. I believe a student of his visited me a few weeks ago to have a look at the Old Yang Style. His Xingyi looked very good. He's only about 45 minutes to an hour away, so I might look him up in the near future.

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[SifuAbel]

I keep getting a 404 error on the big ones, what gives?›

Are you immortal?

sifuabel@yahoo.
com

[fiercest tiger]

i just checked out the 1st clip it took so long it ****ed me off!

then i really didnt think much of the technique, althought i understand your hip action. maybe you should say the clip is more as a instructional way of teaching the opening and closing of the hips rather call it fajing, because it isnt fajing at all!

sorry mate, but good effort in trying. also nice site>>> :cool:

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[Richie]

Did your teach use to have a big beard? :confused:

[taijiquan_student]

I can understand how the waist-whipping action and constantly loading "fajing" Erle does a lot can be powerful and fast, but could you explain to me how it is actually fajing? In taiji the classics say, as well as all taiji masters, that the jin comes from the ground and the legs, then up through the body to the hands. I don't see much of this springy action in your fajing, although it is probably just my lack of experience. If you have explained how your "faijing" is really a fajing earlier in the thread, forgive me. I'll just look back in the thread for it.
Respectfully,
--t.s.

"Duifang jing zhi meng ji, wo fang tui zhi ce fang xi zhi."

[gazza99]

Taiji student-Yes the power is "rooted in the feet directed by the WAIST and emenated through the fingers" What is meant By this is the small and violent shake of the waist amplifies the power supplied by the root and supplies a better explosion of energy throughout the body, I sort of like the analogy of the SH#T hitting the fan.
Of course one must learn to move from the center correctly first, and thats what these movements teach. Im glad I asked for critiques here, you see now I realize I need a better explanation of the clips!! Things that may seem so obvious to me are not apparent to others.

Accually the technique was not done in a fa-jing manner, as it was done large frame. The spring movement you speak of is present in the explosive version. But like I said before the less you see , the better that person may be. Like the clips bamboo had a link to. The master barely quivered, yet the students went flying, without touching hands with the guy you will never know if the guy is really really great, or its all staged, this is why as of yet I havent elected to show any real fa-jing demo's. As its better shown in person.
Anyhow The technique should better be described like fiercest tiger suggested to teach the opening and closing of the hips. In fact my webmaster left out the method name and shortened it...ahem....if your listning.....shog? (email me and well change them up a bit)
Kind regards,
Gary

"Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong"-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com (http://www.pressurepointfighting.com)

[tnwingtsun]

>thanks if I get down that way I might stop by. I do have a good friend in S-mantis. R.Haygood you might have heard of him.<

Only heard of and read funny e-mails from.

If you do get down that way,make sure you tell
YK that you have a good friend in "S-mantis",
I'm sure YK would show you his theroy without words,he's not as nice as his older brother. ;)

[rogue]

Explain large frame and small frame. For example, would large frame be when my hips move 90 degree and small frame would be say 20 degree?

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban


There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, 'To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.' Patton

[Sam Wiley]

Something like that, Rogue. :)

I think he means exaggeration for the sake of learning vs. what it looks like when done for real. I don't think you could do these movements for real because of the danger to the training partner.

In the WTBA, we are used to a seeing lot of detail when it comes to being taught movements, going right down to which muscles contract and which expand sometimes. Generally, most people can untuit which muscles contract or expand based on the way the body is supposed to shake and what feels right. But in any case, we tend to exaggerate body movement so it's easier to see. I think this may be where the confusion about what is and is not fa-jing comes from. Seeing someone shaking their waist in a silly manner looks like they are clueless, but in actual fact, the movement is done as a very fine shiver or vibration when done for real and at full power and speed.

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