The JKD

[bao]

The philosophy of jeet kune do sounds good and probably works, but there is definitely a bit of confusion about the methodology on how to practice (JKD).

Is there anything without subjective relativism philosophy in JKD? I mean in one hand JKD camp do not want to subject JKD to standards or conventions but then again the argument is what are the standards or conventions to qualify a good JKD instructor or artist?

[Cyborg]

Giving only one question in a poll is one way to get the answer you want! :D

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

[Steven T. Richards]

From a 'philosophical' viewpoint, Lee's original JKD is post-modernity in action. Post-Modernism is a chaotic and reducing movement that eventually reduces to absurdity, and changes back into versions of the things that it most despises.
A good 'trick' if you can carry it off, is to hold the cycle at its dynamic apex, before its creativity reduces to a point where for the sake of stability it must reform into a 'monistic' system. JKD post Lee, has split into various sub-cycles/cultures some of which are dynamic and some of which are monistic.

Ideas taken from:

'From Post-Modernism to Dialectical Syncretism: understanding the anthropology and cultural evolution of martial arts systems'

Richards S.T. (1998)
paper presentation to the Society of Martial arts; First International Conference and Graduation, Manchester Metropolitan University,
Faculty of Sports and Exercise Science, July 1998.

paper peer reviwed by Professor david Collins and Dr Eugene de Silva.

A shortened version of the apper is available published in the Societies Proceedings (Vol 1)
ISBN: 0 9533337 0 1

[Kung Lek]

practice your Kung Fu.

when you fight do your jkd.

how do you practice a concept???

to many people are trying to turn this "idea" into a style or a system. It ain't that. It applies to all styles and all systems. It is an idea, a concept.

learn a style and practice it, when you apply is when you use the idea of jkd.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[bao]

I think JKD can not be taught according to the philosophy of bruce lee. In essence, jkd teachers
are saying one thing (theory) and doing something different (practical). There is no unity in theory and practice. Can anyone argue different?

Are there any standards here? What is the diferrence of a poor or highly good JKD person? Or perhaps philosphical platitudes might be the answer to my questions?

How can you teach JKD?


bao

[Cyborg]

Hmmm, would you care to expound on your last post of "they say one thing and do another"? An example would be appreciated. I've gone to 3 of Ted Wongs seminars and haven't noticed anything out of sync with his teaching. (I know you didn't name names).

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

[Daedalus]

I agree. I have seen the same sort of thing among many "certified" JKD instructors. The theories that they spout do not mesh with what they teach.

I get the impression that most do not themselves understand the philosophy of JKD.

Unfortunately, this misunderstanding of "Jeet Kune Do" has led to many persons creating their own systems and calling it by that name. Not to say that what they are doing isn't JKD (by definition), but many use this as a deception.

They recieve a black belt in karate, throw out the kata and traditional weapons and call it JKD.

That's wrong! :mad:

[bao]

Cyborg,

Greetings and good health. I meant is really simple and if you have read or heard of the internal political argument of orginal jun/fan jeet kune do vs. jkd concepts, then i need not explain what i said earilier.

You have been at Ted Wong's seminar. That is good and I hope you learned something useful. My question is Ted Wong practicing jkd concepts or jun/fan jeet kune do? Did Bruce Lee give Wong permission to teach his jkd? If you do not know what I mean by these questions, then you didn't understand by earilier posts.

The theory and practice of jkd is not in harmony by the example of its teachers which is the same of most martial art styles. And even though jkd isn't a style or system. Ironically, I am not surprised.

bao

[Cyborg]

Yes Sifu Wong was certified by Lee to teach. He does JFJKD. And I agree with your post, oops, gotta run. :(

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

[Cyborg]

And I agree with your opinion 90% that it's not taught correctly. But I do think that it can be. To hack away the unessentials is one key, to use proper body mechanics is another. But so few do that.

To throw out the weapons and forms of Karate and call it JKD is pure and simple deception. There will always be some techniques that aren't scientifically sound and are thus incompatible.

To answer the question of "how can you teach JKD" I just have to say go to a seminar by Wong or possibly Tommy Caruthers. I've never had the chance but he looks good.

"Box a fighter and fight a boxer". Bruce Lee

[myosimka]

This I am sure will come across as rude and I don't intend it that way so please take it as cordially as possible. I generally don't espouse opinions on the politics of traditional CMA because I just don't know that much. I even try to keep my mouth shut on JKD issues because my experience of many of these people is through their students and not them. Have only met a few of the heavy hitters. I believe you need to expand your knowledge base somewhat before making some of the statements that you do. To make sweeping generalizations about the way JKD is taught without knowing who Ted Wong is...He doesn't have the mythos attached that Inosanto does but you should at least know the players before you start talking about the internal politics.
"I meant is really simple and if you have read or heard of the internal political argument of orginal jun/fan jeet kune do vs. jkd concepts, then i need not explain what i said earilier."-Bao Tran

I don't think lineage is very important in the study of an art but if you intend to discuss it's politics do the legwork.

It's like having a discussion of national politics and not knowing who Trent Lott is. or any of the party's platforms.

[bao]

Myo,

Greetings. I didn't take anything personal from your post. You are 100% correct i haven't met all the heavy hitters of the jkd clan. But how many
JKD instructors have studied under the heavy hitters that you know? Can you please answer my questions? So I can understand where you are coming from?

BTW, I am coming from the point of view of a student here. I am posing very important
questions and defining my I mean. Before we speak about JKD this and that, I thought it would be nice to be the same page even though people speak and read differently. I believe Socrates once said "define what you mean before we speak."
Well, i am trying to define what I mean so there will no problem of sematics here. Which I believe
is the inherent problem of communication, right.

Bao

[myosimka]

Look down at the Jeet Kun Do Instructors list post below. has a link to a decent list of certified instructors. The big problem is the dichotomoy within Bruce Lee's lifetime between JFJKD and JKD concepts. He used the term JKD in alot of writings and speeches to mean what the concepts camp has come to mean. And yet he taught it from a Jun Fan base. Clearly he had both ideas still bouncing around(he was only 33)

I personally think that both points of view are valid.
I like the notion of trimming the fat from any art to create a workable one. and custom-fitting it to the individual. Problem is very few instructors are good enough to do this. Hence, JKD's reputation for hodge-podge teaching and technique encyclopedia students instead of real MA. Absolutely true that too many are using the name with rather weak skills. Trying to start a group here at UVA and I am fighting for any name except JKD. UVA MMA or MA Research Group. that sort of thing. One guy I know I suggested UVA JKD and he knows that neither of us is anywhere close enough to qualified to use that name.(Of course bold, audacity in the face of MA traditions is the reason that JKD came about to begin with.)
I think that if you really want to view JKD as a style you need to practice the Jun Fan rooted style. But then it seems clear that he really didn't want it to be a style.

Overall, the community is still small enough that you can have a pretty good feel for most of the heavies and how they are simlar and different. and you can study under their people without too much separation. Not the same as studying with the man but -and here's one benefit of seminars- you can get a feel for how true they are to those roots by how the periodic workouts/seminars with the big names feel/sound.

[mun hung]

I recently visited a JKD school, and was left wondering if Bruce would have taught the same things in the same ways.

Then I thought that perhaps JKD practitioners should try to study and experience all the same things as Bruce did to get a better idea of how he came up with his interpretations, realizations and philosophies on Martial Arts.

I think of JKD as a picture full of colors which represent different MA's. Would it be a bad idea to study each color individually as Bruce did before painting his picture of JKD? Why some colors and not others? Why certain shades?